TM 2021: A normal roguelike

[xRECKONERx]

VOTE: xof

i dont think i really need to explain why tbh

[xRECKONERx]

I've made the executive decision not to read any of Hectic's posts this game because I fucking hate stupid posting gimmicks

[xRECKONERx]

Hi

VOTE: Augustus Caesar

Is this based on anything in particular?

Hi

VOTE: Augustus Caesar

Is this based on anything in particular?

No

Why did you make the vote then? Have you read Augustus’ posts?

Why did you make the vote then? Have you read Augustus’ posts?

This was my rvs vote and yes I read them. I also saw that he gave a town read so fast and how is he able to have a town read so fast when it hasn't been longer than 24 hours.

So it was based on something then?

fucking lol

[xRECKONERx]

I think this might be the least active game

Augustus's pal Hectic was dealt the same treatment last year. I was looking forward to the hyperposting this time round tbh

I, for one, welcome the slower paced game and hope it continues.

Though your hyperposting is fun and thus is allowed

no

[xRECKONERx]

oh wow adorable straight up dipped on DV's line of questioning

VOTE: Adorable

[xRECKONERx]

I found then NAI thus far tbh

Ninja'd
I mean Adorable.

I do agree Reck is off tho

why am i 'off' ari

[xRECKONERx]

i only had 4 posts prior to you saying this so it should be EXTREMELY ez for you to point out where i feel 'off'

[xRECKONERx]

Gotta say the multiposting thing is going to kill me. It just feels like noise for the sake of noise and my eyes kinda glaze over as I read it. I also can't keep track of which is which, and who they're supposed to be underneath the alt, which is making that slot so much harder to read.(I also don't remember if it was just one of the public alts hyperposting or both, so that's a bad sign)
I am liking DV so far. The questions do feel like they're coming from a genuine place. I guess the term is solving? But it just feels like good reaction poking and I'm here for it.
Ari my love, why do you feel funny to me? There's this tone underneath your posts that don't quite feel genuine and more performative. Idk if it's AI, I just know unlike usual, reading your posts made my nose wrinkle up.
That's what I got for now.

this 100%

the stupid fucking open alts rule is very bad and dumb and creates more legwork for people to open a tab and have to crossreference who is saying what bc of the alts, the spamposting is ridiculous (out of the first ~100 posts nearly HALF of them are solely from ari + hectic), and the forced shtick of posting in character with images at the end of every post or whatever the hell hectic is doing is sapping my will to live

but i signed up to play team mafia, so i will play team mafia. i am just not going to engage with hectic's shtick for my own sanity. if my team wants to read it they can and fill me in. actually ill ask them to do that right now.

xof's post 100% lines up with my headspace atm so i'm feeling big town energy there

[xRECKONERx]

i'm not doing extra work to "take out" the flourishes and get to the meat of the content, i have three other games to keep up with as part of team mafia at the same time, and i'm starting a new job next week. it's a cost benefit analysis. i find the fact people are allowed to play on alts extremely annoying, i find the posting quirk extremely annoying -- and there's a high ratio of annoying quirky posts compared to the rest of the game. if hectic wants me to read posts they could just post normally instead of wrapping it behind a layer of alt account shtick? why is it on me to accommodate hectic's posting?

i'm disregarding the slot for my own ability to keep up with and read the game and not be miserable. i've asked my team to help me read hectic's posts. if hectic wants to drop the style ill read and respond to what they have to say.

as for your point about adorable, taken a diff way, it's "well adorable's meta is to be strange and an easy vote". i know nothing about adorable. i've never seen them before. and meta is trash anyway. i voted adorable bc of their exchange with DV, which i already said. that's not "strange". that's a straight up lie. adorable claimed to vote on nothing just pure RVS... then upon being questioned explained they did ACTUALLY vote for a reason... and then upon being pushed further by DV, completely ignored DV and jumped onto other things. that's scummy. idgaf about their meta.

[xRECKONERx]

i'm probably being overly hostile ab this bc i heavily disagree w/ the acceptance of open alts and am annoyed this allowance was made after the fact by the Team Mafia listmods so my act of rebellion is to just not read the shit i dont want to read ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

if you're interested in talking about my adorable read or xof read or dv read let me know ari. i think your jump onto me looks gross rn

[xRECKONERx]

I didn't like the way how you just straight up voted me saying I dipped and without even engaging with me. I went to bed after I responded to DV and don't expect me to respond right away because I'm not active.

you literally posted replying to other people and not DV

you're *still* ignoring DV after being called out on it???

[xRECKONERx]

@reck when you play scum and feel like a certain level of ~rage~ would be appropriate, do you find you are more likely to fake the emotion to fit the play, or do you prefer to allow real emotions to dictate your posting for a more natural effect?

i honestly don't know
my last scum game was mafiasunny and i didn't get that upset ab anything
before that i was scum with UT in the legends of the hidden temple game however long ago and alisae wanted to stage an entire AtE rage fight between the two of us so i did it

i think in general i can be more rational as scum and play more emotionally and reactively as town but i'm mostly basing that on my IRL scum games bc before the two mentioned above i hadn't been scum in like 5 years on the site

[xRECKONERx]

fwiw i asked the team to read hectic for me and keely came away with sort of a lean town? didn't like the early stuff bc throwing out a lot of townleans is easy and safe for scum to do, felt like the vote on me was slightly opportunistic bc i was making the most noise and therefore the "easy" safe vote to get away with, but thought the reconsideration of the read via hopkirk's thoughts read as genuine and townie, so we're at null-town i guess if im taking cheeto at face value

[xRECKONERx]

you
still
haven't
responded
to
dv's
post

[xRECKONERx]

sweet

[xRECKONERx]

okay.

maybe im overthinking it but dont think scum acts so blatantly self-contradictory early game and the responses seem to come from some sort of headspace where this all makes sense

this is bad though bc adorable is acting self-contradictory and i think that's town or scum indicative! i think scum, especially those unfamiliar or newer, will have a harder time staying logically consistent
they'll blurt out whatever
adorable just seems to act in a weird manner and has now stumbled over herself to re-explain why she's so contradictory
like, the idea is... "i voted someone, said it was based on nothing when asked, then retroactively gave a justification for it... then got called out on giving a retroactive justification for it, and took 100 posts to get coached by my scumteam on how to respond to it"

idk man i feel like i see people in the current site meta trying to trip over themselves to explain how scum dumbfuckery is actually to dumbfuck to be scum and the fact of the matter is uh it gets caught like that for a reason

[xRECKONERx]

*too dumbfuck

ah geez

[xRECKONERx]

ok like LITERALLY ok

last game I was scum my whole idea was to try to claim as fucking dumb as possible because people would eat it up as being WAY TOO SUSPICIOUS to be suspicious

and when i was caught red handed killing the dead townie the fact that i pretended to be just absolutely fucking unaware and stupid let me survive longer than it should have

i wanted to do this BECAUSE people tend to go all "iamverysmart" and ignore occam's razor nowadays

i'm still p happy and comfy on adorable

[xRECKONERx]

well yes but you're you and adorable is not you and right now it feels more like the sort of trivial weirdness scum would harp on over an actual scumslip

this is probably fine, we're different people, but it doesn't mean my lived experience is gonna let me let people walk away from being internally inconsistent
sometimes the simple answer of "they're scum and fucked up" is actually the answer (it's more common than you think)

but both you and dv seem to be cold on that so either one of you is scum with adorable or two townies are telling me this ain't it fam so ill sit for a bit

[xRECKONERx]

b/c i don't see any universe where
a) two scum white knight the same townie off of such little pressure early d1
b) two buddies go hard to get pressure off of adorable d1 when it's so early

so at most, one of them is scum IMO

[xRECKONERx]

well yes but you're you and adorable is not you and right now it feels more like the sort of trivial weirdness scum would harp on over an actual scumslip

also stepping back, the larger point of my story ab what i did last time was pointing out i believe there's a site meta problem not "here's what i would do as scum"
the fact current site meta gives so much cover for people to do bad contradictory anti town things leaves scum so much cover to get away with murder

[xRECKONERx]

Everything Hectic has said about Reckoner so far I agree with and I have been scum reading Reck.

I also don't like how xof said Summer and I are together and xof said Summer did an awful alot of defending me. From what I remember, scum would never defend each other because that just makes the other scum look bad when one of them flips. I'm scum reading both Reckoner and xof and I am suspicious that scum are trying to push an elimination on me day 1.

VOTE: xRECKONERx

why are you scum reading me

[xRECKONERx]

b/c i don't see any universe where
a) two scum white knight the same townie off of such little pressure early d1
b) two buddies go hard to get pressure off of adorable d1 when it's so early

so at most, one of them is scum IMO

On b) you said two buddies go hard to get pressure off scum so what you're saying here is 2 scum in Hectic, Ari, petapan are scum.

I'm curious to hear from Hectic, Ari, and petapan what they have to say about this post.

i have no idea what you're saying

i am very specifically talking about dv/peta both doubling down pressure on you only to let up. i specifically said "buddies" here as in "if they were buddies with Adorable"
i don't know where you got i was talking about hectic or ari or why you're trying to drag them into this

[xRECKONERx]

cheet and shea have told me to stop being an asshole and read hectic's posts bc they're not that bad. fine. coming later. ive got zoomthings happening right now.

[xRECKONERx]

complaining about spam posting isn't scummy
what do you not like about "adorable refused to answer the question after being caught lying". exactly what's wrong with that, in your eyes?

i dont need to be scolded about my "behavior". ill be mad what i need to be mad ab. if you're openly admitting you're solely voting me/scumreading me because im an angry player then i have some news for you

[xRECKONERx]

ok, i took a beat. i am sorry for getting so inflamed at you, hectic. that wasn't warranted, i think i had a series of things that put me full tilt that day and jumping into the game after being told by the mods "of course alts are ok" really just steamed me pretty good. it was less about the image tags and more about the "i hate evens" type posting restriction shit that you were doing that made it hard to read intent and i think it still does. now every read of you has to add in "is this weird or scummy... or is it just another posting quirk".

i do very much tend to be at odds with high volume posters like yourself, so like, i foresee that continuing if you keep your ratio of posting as high as it is.

anyway, i think you're town. hopkirk talking you down from me feels town, if you were scum, you'd have no reason to back off and could just fake team reads to get more pressure on me. or hell avoid team reads altogether.
as a note, in a game with alts and shit, calling people not by their username is extra confusing.
i don't buy your reasoning that adorable's teammates would let her enter with what she did. i think it's far more likely she entered poorly and got walked back after the fact. that's honestly my entire read on the dv/adorable situation, too, and why i'm keeping my vote there.
i think you raised a good "catch" in DV's 171 saying "I applied pressure because I was bored", but I don't think it's enough to undo the town read I have on him so far
Adorable being your strongest townread at this point feels just insane to me, and you have given like one reason for a townread and that is essentially "teammates wouldn't let scum-Adorable enter the game so brazingly scummy", right? so your argument is... too scummy to be scum? also I don't know that she would be coached so easily by a team watching 3 other games at once. it feels like a lot of hedging bets to explain away what seems to be obviously scummy play by going "well that's so scummy there's no way her teammates would let her do it" and that feels like a lot of a reach to me.

i STILL stand by my push on adorable. i think it's a good place to be poking right now.

[xRECKONERx]

beeboy, i can already tell you're scum

VOTE: beeboy

actually literally where the fuck IS beeboy

[xRECKONERx]

Oh no i didn't realize the game started.
Hello friends.

After clash tonight I'll read up. <3

one contentless post, ok sure

[xRECKONERx]

beeboy is in activity danger range within 4 hours so i assume he's gonna be replaced then

[xRECKONERx]

okay first off, ari, latching onto something i think is incredibly scummy and screaming about it is like literally how i think people should play as town until something is satisfactory

you ask what adorable could've done to answer me. i don't know, EXPLAIN the fucking thought process there? give me SOMETHING to show why they would have contradicted themselves? but they didn't, they just kept dodging and ignoring it, even when *multiple* people pointed it out to them. your insistence that adorable is just weird bc meta and insinuation that it somehow insulates them from any prosecution for doing bad scummy shit is like, buck wild to me. HOWEVER, i will say that at the very least, your overzealous defense of adorable has me thinking that she may

actually

be town here and you're just latching onto an easy white knight target as scum. like literally nobody else has tried to do what you've tried to do, there's been some light push back, but what you're doing here is just over the top. i have zero faith that you actually believe adorable is as town as you pretend to believe.

that being said, agar sent me a multiple page word doc with his thoughts on the game in stream of consciousness bullet point form. from a skim here are some highlights:
- deasvail +town points for jumping in and not fucking around with RVS detecting enough happened to apply pressure
- adorable reading as newbie/inexperienced, not alignment indicative. overall thinks adorable is being set up to be the token defense for scum to earn townpoints, +townpoints for adorable. (im going to yell at him on voice ab this when we get a chance)
- he's feeling vibes with datisi's posts, same page, likes pressuring/questioning of ari. datisi is a hero for post 280.
- #81 from peta where he votes serious is really weird and #83 doesn't provide any follow, +scum points.
- agrees that xof' 108 is goodposting
- dislikes hectic's whole reaction to me in general, esp 112 which feels overly defensive ab a dumb gimmick, and 145 which either misunderstands (at best) or misrepresents (at worse) my objection to the posting style. 256 reads like TMI from hectic, which would point towards adorable being town. also thinks hectic calling ari's takes on me "okay" is bad bc ari just fabricated them out of nowhere, they were based on 4 posts of nothing and he hadnt explained them at all.
- thinks ari is displaying clear thought processes in general with just shitty logic, +town points for ari
- sirius has done nothing, continues to do nothing, compares him to vezokpiraka which almost made spit out my water
- re: beeboy meta is trash and yeeting lurkers in team mafia is also hot garbage

that's ab it. there's a lot of v inflammatory commentary in here meant only to soothe my ego so ive edited out a lot of it for time. overall, i have some stark disagreements with him (mostly re: adorable & hectic) but the rest of it feels pretty on point.

[xRECKONERx]

For the record, I'm not just blatantly sheeping Ari. I already expressed my concerns about Reck and Bulge earlier.

where

[xRECKONERx]

Gotta say the multiposting thing is going to kill me. It just feels like noise for the sake of noise and my eyes kinda glaze over as I read it. I also can't keep track of which is which, and who they're supposed to be underneath the alt, which is making that slot so much harder to read.(I also don't remember if it was just one of the public alts hyperposting or both, so that's a bad sign)
I am liking DV so far. The questions do feel like they're coming from a genuine place. I guess the term is solving? But it just feels like good reaction poking and I'm here for it.
Ari my love, why do you feel funny to me? There's this tone underneath your posts that don't quite feel genuine and more performative. Idk if it's AI, I just know unlike usual, reading your posts made my nose wrinkle up.
That's what I got for now.

this 100%

the stupid fucking open alts rule is very bad and dumb and creates more legwork for people to open a tab and have to crossreference who is saying what bc of the alts, the spamposting is ridiculous (out of the first ~100 posts nearly HALF of them are solely from ari + hectic), and the forced shtick of posting in character with images at the end of every post or whatever the hell hectic is doing is sapping my will to live

but i signed up to play team mafia, so i will play team mafia. i am just not going to engage with hectic's shtick for my own sanity. if my team wants to read it they can and fill me in. actually ill ask them to do that right now.

xof's post 100% lines up with my headspace atm so i'm feeling big town energy there

i'm not doing extra work to "take out" the flourishes and get to the meat of the content, i have three other games to keep up with as part of team mafia at the same time, and i'm starting a new job next week. it's a cost benefit analysis. i find the fact people are allowed to play on alts extremely annoying, i find the posting quirk extremely annoying -- and there's a high ratio of annoying quirky posts compared to the rest of the game. if hectic wants me to read posts they could just post normally instead of wrapping it behind a layer of alt account shtick? why is it on me to accommodate hectic's posting?

i'm disregarding the slot for my own ability to keep up with and read the game and not be miserable. i've asked my team to help me read hectic's posts. if hectic wants to drop the style ill read and respond to what they have to say.

as for your point about adorable, taken a diff way, it's "well adorable's meta is to be strange and an easy vote". i know nothing about adorable. i've never seen them before. and meta is trash anyway. i voted adorable bc of their exchange with DV, which i already said. that's not "strange". that's a straight up lie. adorable claimed to vote on nothing just pure RVS... then upon being questioned explained they did ACTUALLY vote for a reason... and then upon being pushed further by DV, completely ignored DV and jumped onto other things. that's scummy. idgaf about their meta.

i'm probably being overly hostile ab this bc i heavily disagree w/ the acceptance of open alts and am annoyed this allowance was made after the fact by the Team Mafia listmods so my act of rebellion is to just not read the shit i dont want to read ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

if you're interested in talking about my adorable read or xof read or dv read let me know ari. i think your jump onto me looks gross rn

I don't think this is fake, but it feels like something scum are more likely to post.

this? the is the only mention of me i see in your iso

[xRECKONERx]

Oh no i didn't realize the game started.
Hello friends.

After clash tonight I'll read up. <3

@Isis: Is beeboy due for a prod? He's made one contentless post in the 96 hours since the game began.

[xRECKONERx]

so the answer is "yes just this one post" okay just making sure

i can't respond to "this feels like XXXX" because i can't change that your feeling is wrong

the "reck got mad" narrative has also been litigated and relitigated like several times since you developed that read? so like, are you just not reading the rest of the game, do you have zero comments on anything, are you not concerned with trying to evolve reads or engage others about them?

the quoted post isn't even really a "read" on me, it's basically saying "scum are more likely to display genuine emotion" or something, which i totally disagree with, but to go from that to "reck is the only scumread i have right now" just seems like a leap

[xRECKONERx]

@Bulge: has Gamma Emerald read this game?

[xRECKONERx]

I also think beeboy is scum.

VOTE: beeboy

why

[xRECKONERx]

beeboy has not been participating which is suspicious. I am currently leaning town on Hectic, DV, Reckoner, Aristophanes, Datisi, and Summer. I have 6 players I am town reading which makes me think scum are somewhere hidden in the players I am not town reading.

beeboy seems to just not be here at all, it isn't like he's posting but staying in the shadows, it seems better to let the mods deal with the inactivity in this game. If he was actively lurking I'd agree with you, but he's not, he'll just wind up getting replaced at thi spoint

[xRECKONERx]

i don't fully understand what your reasons beyond that are, peta

[xRECKONERx]

...what about them?

On #345 she defended me and why would scum want to defend me when I could have been a good push for scum to eliminate. On #348 she showed a bit of a paranoia on Hectic who could be pocketing her which looked townie from her, on #417 she talks to Datisi being fearful about him being the deepwolf and I don't think scum would want to approach Datisi like, #418 looks real to me.

okay first off, ari, latching onto something i think is incredibly scummy and screaming about it is like literally how i think people should play as town until something is satisfactory

you ask what adorable could've done to answer me. i don't know, EXPLAIN the fucking thought process there? give me SOMETHING to show why they would have contradicted themselves? but they didn't, they just kept dodging and ignoring it, even when *multiple* people pointed it out to them. your insistence that adorable is just weird bc meta and insinuation that it somehow insulates them from any prosecution for doing bad scummy shit is like, buck wild to me. HOWEVER, i will say that at the very least, your overzealous defense of adorable has me thinking that she may

actually

be town here and you're just latching onto an easy white knight target as scum. like literally nobody else has tried to do what you've tried to do, there's been some light push back, but what you're doing here is just over the top. i have zero faith that you actually believe adorable is as town as you pretend to believe.

that being said, agar sent me a multiple page word doc with his thoughts on the game in stream of consciousness bullet point form. from a skim here are some highlights:
- deasvail +town points for jumping in and not fucking around with RVS detecting enough happened to apply pressure
- adorable reading as newbie/inexperienced, not alignment indicative. overall thinks adorable is being set up to be the token defense for scum to earn townpoints, +townpoints for adorable. (im going to yell at him on voice ab this when we get a chance)
- he's feeling vibes with datisi's posts, same page, likes pressuring/questioning of ari. datisi is a hero for post 280.
- #81 from peta where he votes serious is really weird and #83 doesn't provide any follow, +scum points.
- agrees that xof' 108 is goodposting
- dislikes hectic's whole reaction to me in general, esp 112 which feels overly defensive ab a dumb gimmick, and 145 which either misunderstands (at best) or misrepresents (at worse) my objection to the posting style. 256 reads like TMI from hectic, which would point towards adorable being town. also thinks hectic calling ari's takes on me "okay" is bad bc ari just fabricated them out of nowhere, they were based on 4 posts of nothing and he hadnt explained them at all.
- thinks ari is displaying clear thought processes in general with just shitty logic, +town points for ari
- sirius has done nothing, continues to do nothing, compares him to vezokpiraka which almost made spit out my water
- re: beeboy meta is trash and yeeting lurkers in team mafia is also hot garbage

that's ab it. there's a lot of v inflammatory commentary in here meant only to soothe my ego so ive edited out a lot of it for time. overall, i have some stark disagreements with him (mostly re: adorable & hectic) but the rest of it feels pretty on point.

I actually really like this post. I have been really suspicious that there are at least 1 or 2 scum voting me and I had Reckoner as my scum read. 2 days ago midwaybear says he thinks Reckoner is town and he also thinks I'm getting pocketed by scum but I have been disagreeing with him. I see that Reckoner is also having the same problems as me since he thinks I'm scum but one of his team mate thinks I'm town who's getting pocketed by scum. I'm now starting to think Reckoner is town just after seeing this post.

can you reconcile these two posts? In one, you say you've been paranoid of people defending you bc they might be scum. In the other, you say someone defended you so they must be town for defending you because scum would push you.

this is a contradiction. again.

[xRECKONERx]

Is anyone here is there something I should know before I read back?
My team has been yelling at me while I do other things and I am starting to feel bad.

VOTE: beeboy

play the fucking game or gtfo

[xRECKONERx]

I never said I have been paranoid of scum defending me. I was talking about Summer who said she was paranoid of Hectic defending her. midwaybear said earlier he thinks there is scum defending me and I disagreed with him.

ah i see -- so your TEAMMATES are paranoid about scum defending you.

if you disagree with midwaybear, then why do you read me as town now?

[xRECKONERx]

Ahhh. Okay. Thank you for responding, Adorable

[xRECKONERx]

meta is trash idgaf
but i refuse to let someone lurk through the entire first day of team fucking mafia

[xRECKONERx]

yes it's his strategy based on meta arguments that have been trotted out and im telling you i do not give a single flying shit ab meta

if it's beeboy or mith himself, idgaf, if they're lurking through d1 of a game im going to yeet them into the sun, end of story. had beeboy just been replaced id be patiently waiting but instead he's done just enough to keep doing nothing. which... i suppose there's a conversation that could be had about the tactical nature of replacing out or staying in the game, but let's not do that and instead just yeet the lurker

[xRECKONERx]

Gotta say the multiposting thing is going to kill me. It just feels like noise for the sake of noise and my eyes kinda glaze over as I read it. I also can't keep track of which is which, and who they're supposed to be underneath the alt, which is making that slot so much harder to read.(I also don't remember if it was just one of the public alts hyperposting or both, so that's a bad sign)
I am liking DV so far. The questions do feel like they're coming from a genuine place. I guess the term is solving? But it just feels like good reaction poking and I'm here for it.
Ari my love, why do you feel funny to me? There's this tone underneath your posts that don't quite feel genuine and more performative. Idk if it's AI, I just know unlike usual, reading your posts made my nose wrinkle up.
That's what I got for now.

Meh I hate all this activity complaining. I feel like scum are way way way more likely to complain about thread activity than town because that means more work for them, while town are more likely to complain about lack of activity.

or, and hear me out, some of the players here are actual adults with lives and jobs and things to do and don't have time to no-life a mafia game just bc some people think it's fun to hyperpost like an adhd toddler on a speedball

[xRECKONERx]

481 is great

meta is trash idgaf
but i refuse to let someone lurk through the entire first day of team fucking mafia

lol
I will literally never understand this "meta is trash" propoganga
meta can be misleading, sure, but it's very useful if applied right and with context in mind

yes it's his strategy based on meta arguments that have been trotted out and im telling you i do not give a single flying shit ab meta

if it's beeboy or mith himself, idgaf, if they're lurking through d1 of a game im going to yeet them into the sun, end of story. had beeboy just been replaced id be patiently waiting but instead he's done just enough to keep doing nothing. which... i suppose there's a conversation that could be had about the tactical nature of replacing out or staying in the game, but let's not do that and instead just yeet the lurker

I dunno if I'm falling into the trap of reading your over the top style as scummy again, but it's strange you REALLY want people to know you're not sheeping the meta argument but are voting him because he's doing nothing instead, like it's your own violation that you're voting him
reads as a bus post basically, and it's one of those busses with only 3 wheels

the meta is trash line of reasoning i've held for years and years now bc the second anyone is aware of meta is becomes irrelevant and moreover people on this site, especially the newest generation of players, have zero fucking clue how to use meta as an actual weapon and there's no room for nuance

i REALLY want people to know meta is garbage, and my vote has zero to do with whatever meta shit peta laid out, and has 100% to do with punishing anti-town behavior and play

i think you have a personality grudge against me, hectic, because you don't like my attitude or my style, and you need to get past that and start trying to read intent and not tone, or you're going to be misreading me all game

[xRECKONERx]

@datisi: remove meta from the equation -- how do you suggest we approach beeboy if he's AFK/MIA, refusing to contribute, and prod dodging just enough to stay outside of range where the mod can do anything ab it?

[xRECKONERx]

oh another note, sirius is probably town.

They'll be doing all the town and scumhunting for me while I spectate from the gallows. I'm not actually sure what the word gallows means but I'm hoping it's some kind of regal throne or some kind of nice spectating platform. Would be kinda embarrassing if it means something completely different LOL.

its literally some thing for the hanging of criminals.

aha ive caught a criminal

i do not think scum is very likely to go back and reread and comment on something inane and pointless from post 31, full stop. town is way more likely to do this. i can't imagine what world scum!sirius is like "let me go reread to find things" and lands on THAT being worthwhile to comment on instead of forcing some reads somewhere else, idk.

[xRECKONERx]

like, i'm not arguing "hurr durr he did this as town like once so let's never vote him". i'm just saying we shouldn't murder him immediately, especially when there's still other Nothing Slots in the game that i'd like to have Something from.

what other slots do you feel aren't contributing along with beeboy?

[xRECKONERx]

didn't peta say he had a vanity wagon he wanted to sit on

[xRECKONERx]

ok it's time to force myself to do a readslist to start engaging with where i subconsciously have people in my mind

TOWN

DeasVail: prob my strongest townread, we're mindmelding on everything which tells me he's coming at this genuinely, put himself way out there to figure shit out.

xofelf: low content, but what's there is 100% in line with where my brain is atm. dig it. more of it pls but dig it for now.

Sirius: see earlier post. think this is indicative of town mindset rather than scum.

Datisi: earnest attempts to try and get thoughts/content out of people. only slight tinge is calling me v hectic town v town early, i think scum love to call out TvT, but everything outside of that looks like town effort

Hectic: null, slight tinges here n there on town. the way hectic backed up and listened to the team instead of tunneling me gives me town vibes. some of it might be bc he didn't want to get into a shouting match with me and lose, but i read some careful consideration in his posts. behaviorally, seems town.

Ydrasse: peppering some questions around to poke at diff thoughts/opinions, but none of it is really concrete. it's all wrapped in a sort of cute joking wrapper and that's hard for me to parse. notably voting sirius when nobody else was. in the sort of null lump pile in the middle. true null i guess for this list.

Adorable: I'm struggling w this slot tbh. it's full of constant contradictions. she gets done one second saying A is true, then in her very next post will say A is false instead. it's bizarre. that being said, i think when pushed through the flustered behavior, i'm seeing GLIMPSES of genuine understanding. idk. i dont want to subscribe to too scummy to be scum so i am def keeping my eye out here but it does feel like if adorable is scum, she's gonna let us know in big flashing neon letters eventually.

The Bulge: null, leaning slightly scum. there's not a lot to work with in a 40+ post iso. i found early questioning of me weird, asking for self meta, i'm not sure what the expected result of that was. still overall feel like probably too early to tell but slight scum lean just bc there's a lot of empty reasonless proclamations w/out much to them.

Creature: something pinged me weird ab Creature's "I have rolled town" at the start, seems unnatural. really hate how he just declares things are townie or scummy without any reasoning. esp dislike his read on me going from "not fake but scum might post this" to "reck is a surefire scumread" seemingly with no trajectory, feels like he was waiting to see if there was appetite and when there ws he committed harder. there's not much to analyze here bc despite high volume they're all zero calories.

petapan: agar is much more confident in scum here than i am, but i do think there was something weird about how peta voted sirius early under the guise of actually scumreading him and then just literally never talked about it or followed up. then the way peta inserted himself into me/dv questioning adorable felt like a combo platter of piling on mixed with LAMIST. the pokes and prods at me, ari, adorable, etc have all felt half-assed and i don't feel like have gotten us anywhere. reads all feel noncommittal at this point.

Aristophanes: boy, this is just a weird, gross kinda slot. overeager is ari's brand, but something ab the early RVS joke play here feels hollow and nongenuine. the hop onto me with hectic was awful. "reck is off" isn't anything. i asked for an elaboration and he couldn't give one, he just backpedaled on using the word "off". p much my entire adorable townread epiphany came from looking at how far ari was bending over backwards to defend her. the hop off and hop BACK onto me is gross, and it's all wrapped up in this defense of adorable's contradictory behavior. i don't believe town would have such a boner for shutting down

someone calling out contradictions

. he also has this entire narrative he's putting out there that i was ever attacking or tunneling on hectic when i literally haven't the entire game, he's just trying to use my loud personality to poison the well. it's all scummy as fuck.

beeboy: fuck meta, kill nonparticipants, it's team fucking mafia.

SCUM

[xRECKONERx]

there is zero reason to believe my annoyance would come from scum instead of town, putting it in the scumbin is just fucking lazy bc you don't feel like doing any actual scumhunting

[xRECKONERx]

The hop onto you with hectic had a lot to do with a #fuckit attitude. When you asked about me saying you were off I did not just backpedal and I thought my recognizing that the statement was flawed was fine. I did say other things there yaknow. I stand by my defense of Adorable and I really don't see why town wouldn't do what I did there. Defending someone you know to be odd when they are odd makes really good sense to me. And I did not create a narrative of you tunneling on hectic. That was another falter in phrasing which I addressed. I was saying that as scum I would expect you ho stick on something that you could easily make outrage posts about. I thought it would be Hectic's posts. It ended up being Adorable's. I know you have a loud personality, and I am literally not "poisoning the well" with that fact. Nice try tho.

1. Do you think scum would refuse to defend Adorable? how do you think scum would play around Adorable, if town, and she was being pushed by town? Would they pile on? or would they defend? Or ignore?

2. You implied I was going after Hectic, I was not. Walking it back because both me and

Hectic himself

called you out on it after the fact doesn't really do much for me. Like... testing the waters by slightly misrepping what was happening is kinda what scum would do, and if called out on it, I would expect them to backpedal not double down. Because like, what's the other option? "Oops, you got me, I was lying for no reason"? No, you've got to try to talk it down somehow or recontextualize it.

3. You say "nice try tho". What does this mean? You're implying you think I'm "trying" something nefarious. That is clearly implying that I'm scum, yet in the very same post, you've unvoted me and said I'm on the "back burner". This looks very much like you trying to throw shade my way to keep the door open for jumping on me again when it becomes politically convenient for you to do so, while backing off of a wagon that is no longer popular.

[xRECKONERx]

Oh,I missed the hop off and back onto you. Can you explain why that's "gross"? Because looking at this, "gross" tells me just about as much as "interesting" told you and I'd like a fuller explanation.

Because it enables you to feign like you're going to "naturally" progress on a read without actually progressing. It's shorthand for actually doing work and I would expect scum to be performative like that while I would expect town to just get caught up and give a sitrep.

[xRECKONERx]

1. I meam, as scum I dould jump on or shade it until I could. My response would likely have been that Adorable is odd and that I think that's scummy but want to give them a chance to change that. Then as long as the wagon stays viable I'd jump on it. I'm really sure that would have been my plat play there as scum. I mean, a person on the scumteam defending them would be possible too but it probably wouldn't be me.

I wasn't asking for your play as scum. I was asking for what I did that was scummy -- do you just think ANY push on Adorable is scummy? In a world where you're wrong and Adorable is scum, what does a pro-town push on Adorable-scum look like, and how is it different from a pro-scum push on Adorable town. I'm jumbling my words. I'm basically asking if Adorable is scum, is there a way town could even push that without you jumping down their throat? If they're town, is it inherently anti-town from your POV to even question their contradictions?

2. I did not fucking walk that back. Here I'll quote what I said:

@ari, thoughts on 107? I'm not a big fan of the answer you gave

I'm not sure I understand the question. I think his response to my response probably showed that the raging is genuine, but I hope he's done more since then and isn't just raging for the sake of it so he looks like he's contributing without giving any content and having an easy slot to tunnel.

I was busy yesterday and work 12h today but if I get a lunch break I'll be back to catch up! Otherwise it will be mostly tomorrow, for which I apologize.

In that post I said I hope you're not raging for the sake of raging giving you an easy slot to tunnel.
Not said: "Reck is tunneling Hectic"
Wow. Tough reading. Definitely some backpedaling needed there. I clarified already that my intent was not to imply you were scumreading Hectic. I never said you were! This isn't a backpedal because it's literally fabricated in your mind!

Then that's my mistake, I was recalling this Hectic post about the situation:

Ari is Ari so far. the takes he's given on Reck are okay, not too sure otherwise

@ari, thoughts on 107? I'm not a big fan of the answer you gave

I'm not sure I understand the question. I think his response to my response probably showed that the raging is genuine, but I hope he's done more since then and isn't just raging for the sake of it so he looks like he's contributing without giving any content and having an

easy slot to tunnel

.

I was busy yesterday and work 12h today but if I get a lunch break I'll be back to catch up! Otherwise it will be mostly tomorrow, for which I apologize.

however, Reck never expressed a scumread on me, in fact, he's only had me as a varying level of ~town~
what gave you the impression he is or plans to tunnel me?

btw did you like the cute red highlight i used? i thought it'd be on-brand

3. Yes, I was implying you're scum. I noted regretting the unvote. I noted that I would literally eliminate you now if I could. Like basically if I had a vig shot I'd rather aim it at you than anyone else atm.
I realize, however, that a tunnel like that could hurt both our reads and the gamestate. I have enough awareness to say to myself "wow, Reck obviously isnt the Elim today. Maybe I should put that aside since it looks like beeboy is the Elim and I don't want to clutter the game at a point when the day is winding to a natural close. Maybe I even said all that in that very post! :O

I literally backed off because it's not going to happen today. I'm not shading you, I'm scumreading youm but I have enough sense not to drag us into a 1v1 right now.

I have no response to 614. I was catching up and recalibrating as I went. Simple.
I don't think I've run into "sitrep" before, should I know what it means?

It means situation report. And you think I'm scum, but you're not pushing me? The fuck? Since when it not pursuing your scumreads a pro-town thing to do?

You followed Hectic's RVS bait onto me, then when I called you out you basically said you were voting me for raging. Since then, you've sorta thrown everything else I did after the fact into the "raging for the sake of raging" category. That isn't the case. You call ME out for continuing to push and prod the Adorable contradictions, but not DV & petapan, who were also pushing for more answers along with me. But you narrow in your questioning on

me specifically

. Why is that? Is it because I'm too angry as a player? Is it because DV was being widely townread, peta was null, and I had already ruffled feathers in my direction? You're giving other people a pass for a push on a

opently, blatant contradiction

.

As you should!

Because pushing and calling out lies/contradictions is like Mafia fucking 101 here, and you're not dumb enough to play dumb and act like you don't know that.

You could've commented on any of my other reads I provided outside of Adorable if you were interested in engaging me. You could've commented on my call on Sirius being town, you could've evolved your read at all in light of further conversations between me/Adorable, but you haven't. To me, it looks like you've picked your pet scumread to comfortably sit back and tunnel on to avoid responsibility for doing anything else. Your passing mentions of Bulge and Datisi and xofelf as "things you will get to later" don't count. You promised an iso on Datisi, and instead went back to just shouting about how I'm scum for being ragey early on and then rightfully calling out Adorable for being a walking talking contradiction factory.

[xRECKONERx]

Wooo beeboy past the prod window again, hell yeah

Just a couple more and he gets yeeted for us

[xRECKONERx]

like he'll be force replaced or whatever per the mods rules

[xRECKONERx]

instead of us having to do the yeetin'

[xRECKONERx]

like from the game, replaced, yeeted

i momentarily forgot yeet has become common parlance to specifically mean l*nch and not its original meaning of yeeting

[xRECKONERx]

what the fuck happened in here while i was away

too late too sleepy will catch up tomorrow, looks spicy

[xRECKONERx]

started new job today, energy tanks low, coming in to say i find RCE's catchup supremely whelming which doesn't give me a good reason to move my vote since if i did, it'd be to ari, not someone many people have shown interest in

[xRECKONERx]

what's pingy to you about it exactly, what does that even mean

[xRECKONERx]

i mean ill certainly give it a reevaluation later when i catch up, but the slot was doing nothing, then what little was done was underwhelming, not exactly screaming at me to move my vote elsewhere

but i also didnt process he was at e1 and id rather have time to catch up and all that so

UNVOTE

until i can plug back in

[xRECKONERx]

I dislike RCE's catchup because I think a shotcall of me/Datisi/DV requires moonlogic to reach. Dislike how hard he comes in to white knight Adorable AFTER THE FACT. Dislike how he calls both me/DV scum early, backtracks, but the only focuses on DV's push on Adorable and ignores me/peta doing the same thing. Selective reading, selective pressure. A lot of his questions feels like peppering people with stuff that looks like gamesolving but is actually just content for the sake of content.

I have no idea why RCE chose to selectively ISO the slots he chose to iso. I guess it's possible this all came from town, but it all feels so scattershot and randomly selected rather than a thorough scrubbing of the game. Like I can't help but read RCE's catchup as one with an agenda in mind. I don't know what the agenda is. A lot of this is paranoid feelings, probably.

@RCE: Can you shed any light into why you specifically chose to ISO xof/Sirius and nobody else? Can you shed light into why you pushed DV on his questioning of Adorable, but not me/peta?

[xRECKONERx]

Mostly DV was the first person around to interact with and answer some questions.

Peta had a whole different approach to adorable as a whole with thoughtful questioning that wasn't aimed at catching adorable out but getting them to better articulate the points they were making. It's much the same way I would approach a slot that could just be town drowning but if scum would probably make it obvious.

It took awhile to get there, I didn't really like the push initially but made sense the more I read. Peta had this moment that said yeah adorable is probably town based on the responses he pulled from poking adorable

DV kind of let up only after Peta decided he'd seen enough and I'd expect scum to kind of take that indicator and find a better elim to push for with the adorable pressure breaking down. You (Reck) doubled down without the backup of the original pushers which Indicates at least some(?) Kind of conviction in the read. I can't rule out Scum!Reck off of that but it's something at least.

Sirius/Xof were just low posters, being time strapped the idea was to get through the shorter isos first.

I feel like you're reading the exact opposite behaviors from myself and peta and coming to the conclusion that both are town, and I just don't understand it.
The peta/DV thing makes since if, and only if, you're starting from the assumption that petapan is town in that exchange.

So basically to restate what I am hearing: you think peta is town because he backed off Adorable before anyone else did?

[xRECKONERx]

peta, reck, both of you unvoted rce but are still suspecting him. i think it's about time to either vote him or find a new wagon.

??? I unvoted him less than 24 hours ago at peta's prodding to give RCE time to keep catching up
I made a post less than 12 hours ago explaining my hesitance on RCE and asking him for a response

what do you mean it's "about time"?
this is really weirdly theatrical and OTT imo

[xRECKONERx]

slash feels weird to lump me in with peta there

[xRECKONERx]

DV wagon would be hella bad

[xRECKONERx]

I mean you're not the only one

Nobody is interested in my Ari push

I have xof/DV/sirius as toptown still and am not interested there. followed by datisi/hectic.

RCEnigma is still the leading wagon based off his predecessor's lurking mostly?

There's something about this Bulge wagon I can't put my finger on. On one hand, I would be interested in yeeting Bulge (but am probably being too pussyfooted about it bc I'm worried ab being confbiased since we just wrapped up a game where I called Bulge as my secret scumread from early on)... on the other hand, BOTH peta/Datisi being on that wagon feels...incongruent. IDK. I have such a stronger townlean on Datisi than I do peta, and peta is the one who is still "fine" with a RCE yeet despite like pushing me a bit to get off the wagon which feels hypocritical.

I'm gonna sound the alarm for a full team pile on looking at this game, it's only 34 pgs, to help break some of this gridlock in my skull. I'm probably wrong, statistically, about at least one town read, and it's probably someone in my blind spot

p.edit: i mean, i'm personally waiting on bulge's "reset and reevaluate" post ig?

[xRECKONERx]

read dumping from cheetory here bc I"m still at work and figuring out my new work schedule:

datisi: liked earlier drive in the game and questioning, recently feels like a fall off and more aimless whinging rather than solving; most recent datisi post feels "good"
peta: overdramatic posting feels fake, esp. w/r/t bulge interactions
dv: havent read closely but vibes w/ most of his posts other than the "weird pop in" just now (idk what this is referencing)
ari: probtown, just scattered play
bulge: bursts of townish energy, needs to do more and push harder on reads
rce: no understand of beeboy meta people were having. catchup posts are fine but would be easier to read/sort rce off direct engagement w/ people rather than walling a bunch of catchups/isodives
hectic: remembers liking their posts but couldn't tell you which ones anymore
xof: tone off of town alone
creature: seems like he might be trying to accomplish something?? maybe?? cheet has no idea what or how but gun to his head it's probably +town creature

[xRECKONERx]

i really don't know how to think ab balance in this setup since scum know the full setup or whatever.

but...n1 vig seems like a VERY wild claim to fake bc it's very easily disproven and if there aren't two kills tomorrow then byebye RCE?

im wrinkling my brain trying to figure out if scum would ever claim n1 vig and i guess im at "if there's a real n1 vig in the game and scum are trying to bait out a 1v1" or something but even in that case the real n1 vig would just VIG THE FAKECLAIM so i am fine letting RCE prove it.


summer's reaction to getting wagoned is not good so i am fine here

VOTE: Summer

[xRECKONERx]

oh yeah from talking w/ agar today:

- He thinks we should be yeeting RCE anyway bc N1 vig is a bad claim, I'm more willing to give him a pass to see what shakes out.
- Datisi/DV are top townreads for him
- Ari threw weird shade at slots like xof and Sirius and then ghosted. Ari never got back to me after my post ~400 posts ago or whatev, and just disengaged and avoided me, threw his hands up about RCE/beeboy, engaged me on the readslist (but not the post from earlier). "I would vig Reck" is a weird claim, it's like he's doing exactly what he accused me of doing earlier and tunneling on one read that he can latch onto in lieu of engaging with the rest of the game
- peta is being cagey. Doesn't understand why peta called out beeboy slot for meta but then voted elsewhere. Doesn't like 562 bc it feels like a dash of self meta being used as a reason not to give out reads that can be tested and tracked.
- Creature is null/unimpressive, not much to say here; says if RCE turns out to be town then 591 is a Creature post that feels like TMI/prepping for a misyeet
- Hectic is brainmelding with AGar a lot, +town points for that

[xRECKONERx]

but...n1 vig seems like a VERY wild claim to fake bc it's very easily disproven and if there aren't two kills tomorrow then byebye RCE?

Scum doesn't need to claim something they can fake, just something that makes them live at least one more night. Scum has little to lose claiming something that will get them caught the next day but a lot to lose getting lynched the day before and townclearing a bunch of players the next day.

i mean that's a good point, i guess, but my question is why not just... claim something that won't get caught the next day then? like why wouldn't scum just claim something uncheckable here or unprovable, or fuck, claim "n3 vig" or something that buys even MORE time?? it's the immediacy of the "n1" part of the claim that makes me think it has to be town

[xRECKONERx]

i don't think this close to deadline i'm going to get a viable flashwagon going or have time to give the due diligence needed to sort you, peta. not to mention while i have a gut rumbling about you that something is off, it's mostly my team yelling that you're sketchy/scummy.

i'm not really "following" you i'm reacting to the reaction from summer, which feels scummy regardless of me or my team's thoughts about you

if i thought people would have the appetite to flashwagon ari i'd do it but summer has support and we need a yeet before deadline

[xRECKONERx]

like. does anyone here genuinely believe this claim is real? and if so why are you voting me, i want explanations other than like ~but what if he really is the n1 vig~

even if my wagon goes through i want people to justify their reasoning for me over rce right now

i mean why the fuck would scum claim a role that only buys them one night and is easily disprovable? to get one day out of a scumbag? ok sure, i cannot think of a single scum role powerful enough that one night is gonna fuck us over. and if there aren't two kills tonight then who cares, RCE is dead anyway.

i believe it's real solely bc it's such a bad claim.

[xRECKONERx]

Pretty sure Summer is town based on this reaction

Reck, it's "bad" because any other claim gets RCE launched anyway. There were no counterwagons and he was the designated launch. This is like the only claim that saves him - a confirmable town role

Please let's just flip the scumslot

i would 100% not launch a cop claim d1. i wouldn't launch a "n2" modified role probably? i don't know. maybe im big dumb stupid or some shit but "back in my day" you didn't claim an openly n1 confirmable role if you wanted to survive as scum. maybe it's diff now idfk man

[xRECKONERx]

like. does anyone here genuinely believe this claim is real? and if so why are you voting me, i want explanations other than like ~but what if he really is the n1 vig~

even if my wagon goes through i want people to justify their reasoning for me over rce right now

i mean why the fuck would scum claim a role that only buys them one night and is easily disprovable? to get one day out of a scumbag? ok sure, i cannot think of a single scum role powerful enough that one night is gonna fuck us over. and if there aren't two kills tonight then who cares, RCE is dead anyway.

i believe it's real solely bc it's such a bad claim.

because beeboy fucking butchered the slot when he didnt post all of d1 and no one was townreading rce particularly/changing off of him?? like, when you're in a world that that's fucked as scum what else can you do but do something to try and scrounge up a town elim before you're thrown out d2 when you get speedelimmed and no one discusses anything because everyone realizes you were in fact lying scum all along

like arent you the one whos saying shit like "i dont believe in too scummy to be scum" this game and now youre pulling this?

like what the fuck hello

make up your mind, is tstbs real or not this game reck?

1. idt beeboy butchered the slot, meta is trash
2. why does scum care if it's a town elim today or tomorrow, in your theory? it's just rearranging deck chairs on the titanic if they're dead either way. the functional purpose of a scumclaim is to get more time out of the team and bamboozle town. i guess if the alternative you're presenting is "fakeclaim a bad dumb role" or "die d1" then yes, i can see it. but that's a false dichotomy.
3. what the fuck is tstbs?

EBWOP: OH. too scummy to be scum. you know that's honestly the best point anyone has made so far. am i falling for "too scummy to be scum" here?

[xRECKONERx]

eh okay, having it pointed out that i'm falling for "too scummy to be scum" + having my team yelling ab the claim being bad is enough.

VOTE: RCE

if this flips town though i s2g i've got some fucking receipts to bring tomorrow

[xRECKONERx]

fuck me
UNVOTE:
i was about to vote rce but idk the votecount
can i vote him anyway
is it a problem if he gets hammered right now
my care levels are low

WHAT FUCKING RATFUCK SHIT ARE YOU DOING DATISIS

[xRECKONERx]

oh wait lol u werent voting rce nvm carry on

[xRECKONERx]

my blood pressure is lowering now but i will remember this.

[xRECKONERx]

it's 9:30pm and i just laughed out loud alone in my office thinking about datisi laughing out loud alone at that gif

[xRECKONERx]

This started, will get to it tomorrow. Peta being dead helps narrow my pool though

[xRECKONERx]

Can anyone tell me what do they think of Xofelf? I did not like it when they called me and Summer a team. When I iso Xofelf at 829 they said along the lines of, "guys, we have 3 days and there is a single wagon, the fuck are we doing? We all need to step it up." What did Xofelf mean by this? They also said their reads are gutreads but I don't like gutreads.

xofelf strikes me as disengaged and ineffective but I'm not sure that's alignment indicative. xofelf isn't a standard mafia player, as in, they don't play a lot... and if you look at their whole team, it's comprised of people who may have a tendency to not be as engaged, which in turn wouldn't spurn xofelf to more activity. (Contrasting to my team, where if I start to fall behind or lose motivation, AGar or Keely will kick me in the ass to jump back in.)

I don't think xof lambasting people for being scattered on diff wagons is really bad but:

- 829 is such a blatant defense of RCE that I cannot imagine xof would've done that were they buddied with RCE. I know that I am probably flirting with "too scummy to be scum" again, but I'm more specifically talking about how xofelf FRAMES RCE in context. It's not about how pro-town RCE is, it's about how empty and lethargic the game is.

- xof has had the same thoughts as me at very similar points in the game, which is always going to be +townpoints in my mind.

- xof is going hard on calling me town, when I expect scum in a similar position would see some momentum shifting my direction and drop some little shade here and there to open me up as a viable mislim later on. Instead, not only is xof doubling down on that, they're bringing in Ceph's reads on me as well to solidify the position. Sure, it could be white knighting, but to what end? I wasn't under a ton of pressure, so it's not earning them any town points.

The ONLY point against xof that I am having trouble grappling with is the hop back onto RCE at the end. It's a little on-its-face... it feels like a very weak reason to get on that wagon to get some last second town points. Like, if I'm scum sitting off the RCE wagon, "well idk ab this but my teammate said to do it" is about as hamfisted and forced as it can get. So there's a world in which I guess 1057 is a scumpost meant to bus a buddy with "N1 vig claim doesn't sit right with me". But the body of the rest of xof's work isn't pointing to scum-xof imo.

[xRECKONERx]

^ The above was also @DV in terms of discussing xofslot

[xRECKONERx]

what's the point of saying "oh i expect i'll be moving on"?? like it feels more ~for show~ rather than like. a towny thought process of solving another slot.

It was partly me thinking that I was probably wrong in my sudden paranoia of xofelf and partly me wanting to see how xofelf responded to that. I think it can be interesting seeing how people respond to different approaches to their slot. For example day 1 I gave petapan a lot of "shade" without ever really pushing him directly, while I was more aggressive at Adorable. I don't have a specific "I expect scum-X to respond a certain way to a certain approach" but I'm using this game as an opportunity to explore different approaches and see what works for me I guess.

UNVOTE:
VOTE: Summer Nights

Hmmmm
You think the dueling wagons y/day were SvS?

[xRECKONERx]

what's the point of saying "oh i expect i'll be moving on"?? like it feels more ~for show~ rather than like. a towny thought process of solving another slot.

It was partly me thinking that I was probably wrong in my sudden paranoia of xofelf and partly me wanting to see how xofelf responded to that. I think it can be interesting seeing how people respond to different approaches to their slot. For example day 1 I gave petapan a lot of "shade" without ever really pushing him directly, while I was more aggressive at Adorable. I don't have a specific "I expect scum-X to respond a certain way to a certain approach" but I'm using this game as an opportunity to explore different approaches and see what works for me I guess.

UNVOTE:
VOTE: Summer Nights

Hmmmm
You think the dueling wagons y/day were SvS?

From the direction of votes, I think that the fact that they became dueling wagons is not very alignment-indicative.

When the n1 vig claim was made, there was no real reason for the scum team to believe that Summer Nights would be the alternative wagon.

The summer nights wagon was created by petapan (town) and then supported by me (town), at which point, are scum really going to be trying for an alternate wagon? In a world where Summer Nights is scum, I think that the scumteam have to accept here that they are losing a member Day 1 regardless (and tbh I think that RCE is the less sustainable of slots so needs to be sacrificed)
Obviously that only applies if Summer Nights is scum but I think it shows that Summer Nights being an alternate wagon does not actually indicate she is less likely to be scum.

One could even think that the RCE N1 vig claim followed by a very likely lack of attempt by scum to save him once the Summer Nights wagon materialised (including RCE himself not doing anything to survive) could be suspicious but I don't put too much stock in that thought-bubble.

...huh. I was gonna go back and reread the Summer Nights wagon to find the scum driving it as a counterwagon, but... peta did start it, didn't he?

It raises an interesting question. I know this gets into NK analysis which is probably futile, but I can't help but wonder the motivation for the peta kill. Like I said, I had peta heavy in my scumpool at the end of y/day, my entire team was yelling at me to go after peta D2, and then he gets NK'd. What advantage do scum gain by NKing the townie who lead the counterwagon away from the flipped scum?

I could buy that the SN wagon was independent of the RCE wagon, that much seems true.
TBH none of the "reasons" for the Summer wagon seemed particularly compelling to me, what struck me the most was Summer's initial reaction to getting wagoned which could be me reading tone/playstyle and not intent/motivation. Other people seemed to read her reaction as townie, which seems similar to how xof read my hostile playstyle when Hectic was attacking me for it.

I really feel like I need more from Ari. I need to reread shit around beeboy too. Even though we have a dead scum I feel a little bit lost at sea for what to do next, because we essentially caught that one scum off of a reverse-trust tell (lmfao)

My vote is currently going to land on Aristophanes if he doesn't show up and start dropping some razzle dazzle, I feel like he was never properly eviscerated for his weak ass push on me (using Hectic's push on me as cover) followed by a tunnel/selective read on my slot while ignoring the rest of the game. Like quick, go iso Ari, tell me you see a slot that's trying to sort the game there and not just do the bare minimum. But I also want to reread things in light of the flipped slots

[xRECKONERx]

VOTE: Aristophanes

Done.

[xRECKONERx]

i feel like every time someone questions summer nights about something or pushes her she uses AtE to defuse the situation with a gif or a "ah geez AtE AtE AtE real life story AtE" and i'm not sure i buy it

but like, last time she did this, several ppl called her town so: how come

[xRECKONERx]

Is faking a dayvig modkillable, asking for a friend

[xRECKONERx]

The xof wagon still feels mmmmmm bad. So does DV.

Might I entice you all on some juicy ARISTOPHANES?
Might some of you answer my questions re: Summer Nights?

[xRECKONERx]

idk why there's 5 pages of ydrasse and hectic flirting at each other with what looks like a bulge readlist thrown in but im not reading it right now

i hope somewhere in there someone (see: hectic, or whoever else) can explain why AtE is townie

[xRECKONERx]

okay

reread and i wish i hadn't, the hectic/ydrasse back and forth made me want to kill myself
i don't think any of it's serious, or maybe it is, but they can i guess restate things in a way that isn't stupid if they want ppl to pay attention

Spoiler: posts that inspired thought

reck

- 99
like the hop onto adorable, feels natural

xofelf

- 108
complaining about gimmick accounts to find content
different for reck due to his meta + venting about TM rules

ari

- 113
originally misinterpreted this post. this is fine, not dodgey

hectic

- 117
feels like hopkirk. hard to fake these team inputs

*Probably at least 2? scum sharing team input

sirius

- 160
probably real team thoughts

deasvail

- 175
why is that invalid?

datisi

- 198
maybe calling off discussion is actually townie

adorable

- 200
i like this reaction to deasvail questioning her team reads

--PAGE TEN--

datisi

- 229
effort to be understood by adorable

reck

- 242
backpedaling the self-meta before it's called?

xofelf

- 262
doesn't say anything bad or scummy about adorable's content, lots of words to critique playstyle

datisi

- 280
town mindset to catch this wagon/adorable dodging questions

deasvail

- 285
post says nothing, leaves all doors open

ari

- 287
makes the question about reck when i'm clearly prodding about ari

reck

- 312
partnery

summer

- 348
kinda noncommittal readslist

*Creature/dv/summer setting up swing from beeboy to sirius? hectic calls out in 361

ari

- 367
weird read on hectic, why would scum just hide behind alts and not be helpful
pointless question to dv ("why not question literally anything else instead?")
extremely weak associatives with me/datisi

ari

- 371
repeat of 287

ari

- 374
soft defense of beeboy ignores his meta

deasvail

- 376
not a big fan of straight answering such a weird question. ari partner?

ari

- 381
or appealing to dv?

reck

- 404
these agarthoughts are showy

summer

- 422
awkward hop off sirius/onto beeboy

sirius

- 426
big town vibes

reck

- 450
jumped the gun on this point, slow roll from reck vs adorable is strange

datisi

- 451
too self conscious

ari

- 460
weird awkward repeat of 374, shades xofelf

summer

- 465
WHO KILLED PETA?

--PAGE TWENTY--

creature

- 507
beeboy partnery

hectic

- 526
willing to double back on reason when peta engaged, towny

datisi

- 535
too self conscious while planting seeds of a beeboy defense

datisi

- 549
not a scum explanation

reck

- 577
sets up a move back onto adorable
shades me for asking him selfmeta question, but why now and not then?

xofelf

- 594
unnecessary defense of reck

xofelf

- 608
mentions ari's content without any specifics, weirdly holistic read but not being presented as so

ari

- 609
rushed, and "nice try tho" in same post as unvoting reck is weird

deasvail

- 647
good lines of questioning, really trying to squeeze content out of creature

ari

(bulge) - 652
indirect, nervous, too many words (why not just "I would shoot you")

deasvail

- 653
would scum say that about town? ("i have a feeling my read will be town")

datisi

- 678,679,682
good response to a bad case

xofelf

- 703
first time bringing up team input, odd timing re:my datisi post

creature

- 705
convenient

--PAGE THIRTY--

deasvail

- 731
not pressuring RCE as a partner

creature

- 747
distancey

creature

- 749
what? dv feels me

*LOOK AT RCE ISOs, ONE OR MORE DON'T BELONG*

summer

- 756
team input feels somewhat faked

reck

- 790
halfassed unvote (bus?) after being called by peta

datisi

- 835
not partnery

creature

- 876
disagree with assessment of deasvail

creature

- 883
is this all in defense of RCE?

datisi

- 907
partner never digs for a reason to not believe a claim like this

petapan

- 910
inclined to trust this read

hectic

- 919
gets no points for not believing the claim

rce

- 934
no stance against summer, could be unwilling to bus lurking partner when he is doomed d2 either way

summer

- 938
too hypothetical

creature

- 941
why a liability and not just scum?

--PAGE FORTY--

summer

- 980
like this reaction, urgency in ensuing posts feels real

ari

- 1034
no stance at all on RCE claim, defers to his team

sirius

- 1042
good catch re:finding a better fakeclaim, not scum

summer

- 1056
genuinely wants to be able to read sirius properly

xofelf

- 1057
bad hammer, defers stance to teammates like ari did

hectic

- 1071
odd pivot, what was hectic thinking overnight?

datisi

- 1074
good response

hectic

- 1080
I had a similar thought re:Datisi+Reck

xofelf

- 1102
good post, last line especially feels townie

xofelf

- 1106
pretty good take on my play, feels genuine

reck

- 1128
is this trying to cast doubt on the possibility of svs wagons?

ari

- 1157
not a fan of the first two sentences

datisi

- 1180
too weak a push for scum to go there

leaves me feeling something like

hectic
datisi
adorable
sirius
summer

deasvail
xofelf

reck
creature
ari


additional notes for now:
-reck vs ari could very easily be theatre, neither is very sticky about it
-deasvail has done some things that seem extremely unlikely for scum to have done (most notably his pressure of rce, although Datisi is the least likely beeboy partner imo), but I know he is a very skilled player
-if deasvail is scum then I think that heavily points to creature as a partner
-summer is sketchy/null overall to me, but her reaction to being counterwagoned was super town, although less so if creature scum.
-xofelf reads as scummy to me but recent posting is much better, and their stance on my slot feels so real I can't shake it.

ok dope, help me bus ari please, i'm going for the bussing speed run this game

The xof wagon still feels mmmmmm bad. So does DV.

i'm being pocketed? by who? good meme btw

idk why there's 5 pages of ydrasse and hectic flirting at each other with what looks like a bulge readlist thrown in but im not reading it right now

i hope somewhere in there someone (see: hectic, or whoever else) can explain why AtE is townie

Why were you treating the lives of people this game like little musical chairs where we can kill willy nilly

and i said what i said these last 5 pages......

what the fuck does this mean

ydrasse has turned into exactly the type of poster i hate playing games with, full stop, if she gets to l-1 i'm instantly hammering it so let this be a fair warning. turning the game into a spamfest is inherently anti-town.

can explain why AtE is townie

it's townie or NAI depending on what made the player mad
why did you not like the Deas wagon earlier?

okay can you explain what AtE would look like in Ydrasse/Summer's case if they were scum being wagoned yesterday? vs if they were town? how come AtE and emotional play is townie or NAI, yet early on in this very game, you read me as scum for doing exactly that?

re: DV, I still have a town read on DV from earlier and how much we were mind melding.
your post isn't terribly convincing to me, DV was a big push behind throwind shade at RCE. the unvote doesn't look tactical, how stupid would scum have to be to be the first one to unvote their buddy off a shitty n1 vig claim? i know i keep going back to the too scummy to be scum well here but my god.

also RCE flipped Mafia Informed..so unless the scumteam dont already know RCE's info from pregame chat, which would be the FIRST THING any Informed should do, RCE was effectively a vanilla goon at that point. another day doesn't really buy scum anything out of that slot, idk if i buy that scum were working hard to get RCE another day of life?

the most compelling thing you point out is that DV doesn't try to talk you down that RCE doesn't need another night, which could mean scum letting town make bad suggestions and drive things. but i also think "I did something pro-scum and you didn't stop me" is a pretty bad argument from the word go

The xof wagon still feels mmmmmm bad. So does DV.

Might I entice you all on some juicy ARISTOPHANES?
Might some of you answer my questions re: Summer Nights?

I posted why I think Ari is town on Day 1, and given that he hasn’t posted much at all since then, I think it remains relevant.

I don't know that I need to do this, but here's a full summary of Ari's actions this game

- RVS bullshit [feat. weak feigned serious push when: peta votes sirius]
- votes me for feeling "off" after Hectic invites him onto my wagon
- white knights Adorable while completely dodging me asking him to explain why i'm "off"
- DISAPPEARS FOR A LONG BIT
- comes back to back off of me and continue to defend Adorable while still not calling anyone suspicious or scummy
- doubles back down on defending Adorable to come all the way back around to just tunneling on me again
- peppers his next "catch up" with hearts and smiley faces and jokes and memes but doesn't actually deliver game relevant content
- defended beeboy from the meta push on him in 460 ("well xof hasn't been here either!")
- when beeboy pipes back in, Ari is a fan of giving him time to catch up and produce content
- unvotes me while still calling me scum and saying he's gonna focus on other things but spends the majority of his post still shading me?
- very supportive of RCE catching up and giving thoughts. idk. just read his posts around beeboy/RCE, they're "off" to use ari's own word
- uses teammates (anonymous teammate, not a named one, mind you) as a reason to setup a jump back onto RCE.
- NEVER votes back on RCE, never does anything about the wagon actually. shows up d2 to be like "well i guess i shoulda listened huh" and that's IT

I implore you to ISO ari. it's VERY short because there's almost nothing there. what is there is i would easily say half joking cutesy posts that don't add anything to the gamestate or put himself at risk in any way. ari has spent the game defending people or calling people town. outside of his tunneling on me, he hasn't pushed any scumreads.

actually, it's funny. there's this little neat concept called projection and whoopsie daisy what do we have here?

snip

I know I'm questioned later on my wording in response to my response to this response, but what I meant by

Reck using this to tunnel them

, as I believe I put it, is that if

Reck sticks to the rage or commentary about this slot and thefact that Alts shouldn't be in this game and gimmicks are dumb rather than providing content I think that is scum indicative and a way to look busy without actually contributing

. I haven't read what they've said after that response but I'm hoping they're *doing things* because otherwise this could indicate scum!Reck. I hope that makes things clearer here.

snip

snip

Lol I can hear the Clap Emotes and they aren't even here XD
Uh,

this is kind of the hyperfocusing on one thing that I was worried about with Reck WRT Hectic

. I think he's found a new target and honestly this is a pretty big red flag imo. FoS on you my friend.

snip

Oh look, Reck is still sticking on this after it's been resolved. Just like I figured they would.

Fuckit
VOTE: Reck

That was short lived.

End of pg 10.
We're getting there. Sorry everyone (:

ARISTOPHANES IS LITERALLY DOING THE EXACT THING THIS WHOLE GAME THAT HE PROJECTED ONTO ME DOING

first ari said i was tunneling/focusing on hectic by focusing on one thing the whole game so i wouldn't have to get involved elsewhere

then ari said i was doing the same thing with adorable

but ACTUALLY ari is the one that has been doing it all game. he has leaned on his scumread on ME in order to avoid doing useful shit elsewhere. like, he literally projected onto me his own guilty subconscious/anxiety lmfao. couple that with gross positioning around the RCE/beeboy wagon and i fail to see how more people aren't chomping at the bit for ari to die.

[xRECKONERx]

reck, out of curiosity, did you see/make note of ari's 1034 before I pointed it out?

nope i did not, i actually missed it when it happened at the time and only caught it on a reread

[xRECKONERx]

also RCE flipped Mafia Informed..so

unless the scumteam dont already know RCE's info from pregame chat

, which would be the FIRST THING any Informed should do, RCE was effectively a vanilla goon at that point. another day doesn't really buy scum anything out of that slot, idk if i buy that scum were working hard to get RCE another day of life?

the only reason scum would absolutely need to keep RCE alive to find out his informed info is if they didn't already know it which seems unlikely

[xRECKONERx]

Reck, I still need to read over Ari again but just talking theory here.

As im sure you know, projection is a phenomenon that occurs all the time and while it’s not the most adaptive mechanism I don’t know why it makes someone scum.

Sure, the thing is Ari was projecting onto me something I wasn't doing and said that made me scummy, when it's in fact what he's doing

I don't know why you want to divorce the theoretical concept of projection from its practical context in this specific case

[xRECKONERx]

why does that seem unlikely?

why wouldn't the scum informed share the info immediately in thescum chat?

[xRECKONERx]

btw creature you're the only one using lynch constantly so could you maybe not since nobody else is doing that

p.edit: oh.....kay.........?

[xRECKONERx]

reck, do you have any Fresh Takes on bulge?

no tbh i need to iso and reread bulge entirely, i am having trouble not seeing red bc he's reading me as scum

[xRECKONERx]

Still pretty plausible RCE could try saving himself for another day anyway because what would be the backlash of trying to do so?

the question isn't what RCE would do? it's whether or not his buddies would help try to save him

what exactly are you getting at

[xRECKONERx]

the context of this discussion is and has been regarding DV's unvote off of RCE

Hectic proposed that it was tactical on DV's part, which would mean DV as a RCE-buddy was lookin for a way to keep RCE alive another day

what I'm saying is, I don't think scum would be willing to stick their neck out in that way for a role that was dead in the water anyway

it's not "do scum need a special motive to want to live"
it's "does DV scum tactically unvote IMMEDIATELY after a shitty claim from his goonbuddy"

framing it otherwise is disingenuous

[xRECKONERx]

@DV: What are the things that have come up that have forced you to re-evaluate your reads on me/xof?
Can you talk to me about why you're scumreading Datisi? I don't think you've mentioned that before

[xRECKONERx]

what's the point of saying "oh i expect i'll be moving on"?? like it feels more ~for show~ rather than like. a towny thought process of solving another slot.

It was partly me thinking that I was probably wrong in my sudden paranoia of xofelf and partly me wanting to see how xofelf responded to that. I think it can be interesting seeing how people respond to different approaches to their slot. For example day 1 I gave petapan a lot of "shade" without ever really pushing him directly, while I was more aggressive at Adorable. I don't have a specific "I expect scum-X to respond a certain way to a certain approach" but I'm using this game as an opportunity to explore different approaches and see what works for me I guess.

UNVOTE:
VOTE: Summer Nights

Hmmmm
You think the dueling wagons y/day were SvS?

I noted this as trying to cast doubt on that possibility, but looking again it's actually clearly the opposite, and reck is trying to open this dialogue after briefly hopping onto the Summer counterwagon yesterday, and has been lazily floating it as an alternative to ari all day now.

i have no idea what you are trying to say about me here

[xRECKONERx]

@DV: What are the things that have come up that have forced you to re-evaluate your reads on me/xof?
Can you talk to me about why you're scumreading Datisi? I don't think you've mentioned that before

Between you and xof, I'm definitely less concerned about you and I do think some of the concern is probably silly paranoia. From you some of the stuff towards the end of Day 1 was slightly questionable to me. 1003 was a weird reaction at Datisi and I remember feeling a bit suspicious of your team-driven vote onto RCE after talking about how you believed the claim to be real (almost as if you wanted be on the wagon more than anything else) but I don't actually have strong belief in any of this. They are passing thoughts I have and I would prefer not to be judged on them.
Xofelf is a little more concerning to me sometimes. When I voted for them in 1096 was probably the best example of me having a moment of reconsideration.
Having had a quick skim through your posts and xof's posts again right now though, I still think you're probably both town. I just have ~moments~ here and there. Maybe the fact that Ari isn't posting is a reason why I don't get paranoid of him (hah), as obviously problematic as that is.

I feel like I haven't talked much about my suspicion of either Datisi nor The Bulge before, but in Datisi's case when it comes to game-solving/scumhunting it feels more reactive to events of the game that are happening than Datisi actually directing things and trying to influencing the course of the game etc. The reason for my expressed hesitation in my post though, is that I don't have any specific "content" that I scumread Datisi based on. It is mostly that I townread the rest of the game at least slightly more.

Okay, interesting. You don't wanna be judged or talk about those passing suspicions which is fine by me, I'll let them lie

I mostly wanted to see where your head is at with like, why you're feeling any cold feet at all on your reads, and the "something nibbling away at me but not something big enough I even want to grapple with right now" line of thinking vibes 100%

[xRECKONERx]

Reck's apparent murderboner for me is meh. I'll have to reread it but I guess I don't see that coming as hard from scum as it is here.

why would scum be less likely to lead a wagon on you

[xRECKONERx]

so like, for the bulge i had this like, inner vibe read where i thought they were town and im happy to announce that the reads list made me feel vindicated, i dont have the same order exactly but it lines up with what im thinking sans like... move sirius and deas down a tier basically and that's what im working with, the former is kinda ? for me to parse but im not intereste din like... killing it, really, okay actually that's more a townlean and deas i need to think about a bit but the read on ari feels like... i guess a little weak for someone who has ari as one of his top trs? i agree w the fact that ari is easy to have a go at but it feels like there's too much faith there to trust him like that. uhhh. ari actually can go in null with a hint of scum instead of at the bottom entirely re: bulge's list.

this is the most fence sitty noncommittal bullshit btw??

this is a lot of words that feel like content but aren't actually content imo

here's this post condensed:
* i like bulge's readslist minus a minor adjustment or two
* ari is a scumlean

boom, two little bullet points and we get the same info.

[xRECKONERx]

Ydrasse switching to her main just feels like theatre, and not fun theatre. That being said, some of her points feel like good ones. I think she's noncommittal in the same sort of way I tend to be, she's just better with words and consistency. I'm not really sure what I think about her, I keep flip-flopping on whether I like her. Ceph says she's scum though, I'm not sure if I agree.

I don't like Ari's pop in either. But I've just not liked Ari's presence and lack thereof in the game, and that really sucks cuz I was looking forward to playing with him.

Hectic(I refuse to try to parse which gimmick head I'm talking about, cuz I'm too tired for that shit) is still giving good content.

Reck keeps speaking the grumpiest parts of my thoughts so eloquently.

I did like DV's response to why he did what he did. It's what I'd expect questioning on him to be like if he's innocent of ulterior motives. I'm not saying he can't be lying, this just doesn't feel like the way he lies or reacts when he's been caught in a lie or misleading action. I don't think I've played much mafia with him, so this is LSG knowledge, so take that as you want.

I know a lot is just rehashing shit I've said before, but *shrugs*. It's what I got today.

when are you going to vote someone and what is the trigger for feeling confident enough to do it?

[xRECKONERx]

Hmmmm
You think the dueling wagons y/day were SvS?

I noted this as trying to cast doubt on that possibility, but looking again it's actually clearly the opposite, and reck is trying to open this dialogue after briefly hopping onto the Summer counterwagon yesterday, and has been lazily floating it as an alternative to ari all day now.

i have no idea what you are trying to say about me here

at first i thought you were ridiculing the idea, but I realized you were in fact entertaining it

what does that mean for your read on me

[xRECKONERx]

what do you mean by 'overall reaction'

[xRECKONERx]

what do you mean by 'overall reaction'

I originally said "reactions" which would imply that there are specific reactions that set me off, but it's more like the overall impact on the gamestate. and I guess lack of some reactions. you yourself said at one point that you were basically just waiting for my reevaluation post, but all I can gather from our interactions since then is that you looked at my readslist (and I know you looked in the spoiler, yet no direct responses). in fact none of my scumreads interacted more than a scratch with it, and those who did interact directly with me I very much expected and would absolutely have been pinged if they hadn't (datisi sort of has to say something about it regardless of alignment, ydrasse was present in the thread at the time, hectic imo has been casting a wider net than any other player this game). if my reads are trash then idk what to think of it all, but surely more people of either alignment would be disagreeing/picking them apart/pushing me. but if I'm right, then I'd still expect some kind of shoveback? or push? idk I put out more content in that post than I have all game, I'm sure it's not airtight. the fact that it kinda came and went without any of that feels weird to me, like nobody is going to bother and I'm just going to be picked off at night.

OH. i see.

i mean i didn't really push back bc most of the stuff you threw at me was like, loose associatives, which... can't be proven or disproven any specific way. there really wasn't anything to grapple w/ i guess but if there's a point you WANT me to respond to i can? I just kinda read it and was like "ok well Bulge is off base but he's agreeing w/ me on Ari so whatever", I don't think it makes you scum or town it's just kinda there

part of me also feels like this game is... under a spell of apathy. like both ari and ydrasse have promised catchups and getting engaged and just aren't. sirius has done nothing all game. hectic has faded out into the background. creature has faded out. xof is keeping up xof levels of activity. adorable has become a less frequent poster today. tbh the only people ive seen TRY to engage today with any sort of effort are myself and you and datisi i guess? at least the only people that left any sort of impression

i think the d1 dunk on the AFK scum probably demoralized the scumteam a bit and let town get lazy, which is why there's just no friction atm. nothing to grab onto.

i think scum probably sat back and said "lets play it quiet today" and couple that with some afk/unengagement on town's side and yeah, we're here now.

[xRECKONERx]

ari you have posted a LOT in 24 hours but almost none of it is reads or gamesolving or progression hm

[xRECKONERx]

ari you have posted a LOT in 24 hours but almost none of it is reads or gamesolving or progression hm

what do you think about the things he has posted then?

...that none of it reads as gamesolving or progression

are you like, reading the fucking post you're quoting

[xRECKONERx]

ari you have posted a LOT in 24 hours but almost none of it is reads or gamesolving or progression hm

That's true. As noted it was mostly reacting to the present and not doing Isodives as I'd hoped.

I think realtime interactions are very important so I took the chance to have them last night.

and what did you glean from those real time interactions

[xRECKONERx]

bc 87-98% of it looked like fluff joking flirty bullshit

[xRECKONERx]

yes, my read on it is that most of what ari said is fluff/irrelevant/useless. it does not solve for the PRIMARY PROBLEM i have with ari this game and the case i laid out what feels like weeks ago at this point. like none of the points i made here have been addressed

- ari has still done nothing to address his read on me or case on me other than soft backpedaling and promising a re-read
- he still hasn't explained anything around his hard defense of beeboy from the meta push and overall weird play around that wagon
- a lot of my entire thrust was that ari spends his posts joking and trying to be part of the "in crowd" instead of trying to play the game and he has now actually admitted to just blatantly doing that by trying to get "real time reactions"...but STILL HAS NO READS/REACTIONS/INSIGHTS from it

it's just filler content for the sake of filler content. i'm happy to leave my vote where it is. your absolutely empty reasonless push on creature, btw, is noticed and tagged as distracting from the aristophanes wagon

[xRECKONERx]

tonight is date night, catch up coming tmw

[xRECKONERx]

FUCKIN G christ it's late i drank tonight for the first time in WEEKS and i just realized deadline si soon

i will wa ke up tomor row and get thought s on paper fro what's going on

[xRECKONERx]

ok what's up nerds i'm here, i have a headache, and it's time to CATCH UP

[xRECKONERx]

Spoiler: mega catchup

yes, my read on it is that most of what ari said is fluff/irrelevant/useless. it does not solve for the PRIMARY PROBLEM i have with ari this game and the case i laid out what feels like weeks ago at this point. like none of the points i made here have been addressed

- ari has still done nothing to address his read on me or case on me other than soft backpedaling and promising a re-read
- he still hasn't explained anything around his hard defense of beeboy from the meta push and overall weird play around that wagon
- a lot of my entire thrust was that ari spends his posts joking and trying to be part of the "in crowd" instead of trying to play the game and he has now actually admitted to just blatantly doing that by trying to get "real time reactions"...but STILL HAS NO READS/REACTIONS/INSIGHTS from it

it's just filler content for the sake of filler content. i'm happy to leave my vote where it is. your absolutely empty reasonless push on creature, btw, is noticed and tagged as distracting from the aristophanes wagon

Alright looking at that post you linked here.

I can address points 2 and 3 of this post though without looking back.

re: beeboy wagon
I thought I already responded to this but if not, here we go. Jingle did think that the meta argument for beeboy was good despite Datisi's linked example being not the greatest. He also told me they'd like to see RCE go as RCE did nothing towny with the slot.
My own defense of it, however, was that while we could compromise on the slot, I was more inclined to let beeboy either get replaced or get content. I don't have the same experience with his meta and thus was not as on board for a non-stot Elim.

re: "real time reactions"
I'm trying to get back into this game after whet feels like months of neglect. I find it easier to do so via talking to people when they're around and going through Isos. I am therefore prioritizing the two methods here. I agree that I've had a lot of surface play and have lacked depth. I'll change that in time.

The post in question:

<snip>

The xof wagon still feels mmmmmm bad. So does DV.

Might I entice you all on some juicy ARISTOPHANES?
Might some of you answer my questions re: Summer Nights?

I posted why I think Ari is town on Day 1, and given that he hasn’t posted much at all since then, I think it remains relevant.

I don't know that I need to do this, but here's a full summary of Ari's actions this game

- RVS bullshit [feat. weak feigned serious push when: peta votes sirius]
- votes me for feeling "off" after Hectic invites him onto my wagon
- white knights Adorable while completely dodging me asking him to explain why i'm "off"
- DISAPPEARS FOR A LONG BIT
- comes back to back off of me and continue to defend Adorable while still not calling anyone suspicious or scummy
- doubles back down on defending Adorable to come all the way back around to just tunneling on me again
- peppers his next "catch up" with hearts and smiley faces and jokes and memes but doesn't actually deliver game relevant content
- defended beeboy from the meta push on him in 460 ("well xof hasn't been here either!")
- when beeboy pipes back in, Ari is a fan of giving him time to catch up and produce content
- unvotes me while still calling me scum and saying he's gonna focus on other things but spends the majority of his post still shading me?
- very supportive of RCE catching up and giving thoughts. idk. just read his posts around beeboy/RCE, they're "off" to use ari's own word
- uses teammates (anonymous teammate, not a named one, mind you) as a reason to setup a jump back onto RCE.
- NEVER votes back on RCE, never does anything about the wagon actually. shows up d2 to be like "well i guess i shoulda listened huh" and that's IT

I implore you to ISO ari. it's VERY short because there's almost nothing there. what is there is i would easily say half joking cutesy posts that don't add anything to the gamestate or put himself at risk in any way. ari has spent the game defending people or calling people town. outside of his tunneling on me, he hasn't pushed any scumreads.

actually, it's funny. there's this little neat concept called projection and whoopsie daisy what do we have here?

snip

I know I'm questioned later on my wording in response to my response to this response, but what I meant by

Reck using this to tunnel them

, as I believe I put it, is that if

Reck sticks to the rage or commentary about this slot and thefact that Alts shouldn't be in this game and gimmicks are dumb rather than providing content I think that is scum indicative and a way to look busy without actually contributing

. I haven't read what they've said after that response but I'm hoping they're *doing things* because otherwise this could indicate scum!Reck. I hope that makes things clearer here.

snip

snip

Lol I can hear the Clap Emotes and they aren't even here XD
Uh,

this is kind of the hyperfocusing on one thing that I was worried about with Reck WRT Hectic

. I think he's found a new target and honestly this is a pretty big red flag imo. FoS on you my friend.

snip

Oh look, Reck is still sticking on this after it's been resolved. Just like I figured they would.

Fuckit
VOTE: Reck

That was short lived.

End of pg 10.
We're getting there. Sorry everyone (:

ARISTOPHANES IS LITERALLY DOING THE EXACT THING THIS WHOLE GAME THAT HE PROJECTED ONTO ME DOING

first ari said i was tunneling/focusing on hectic by focusing on one thing the whole game so i wouldn't have to get involved elsewhere

then ari said i was doing the same thing with adorable

but ACTUALLY ari is the one that has been doing it all game. he has leaned on his scumread on ME in order to avoid doing useful shit elsewhere. like, he literally projected onto me his own guilty subconscious/anxiety lmfao. couple that with gross positioning around the RCE/beeboy wagon and i fail to see how more people aren't chomping at the bit for ari to die.

- Okay I forgot about the xof thing but I thought it was analogous at the time so meh, I don't know what you want me to say there.
- I know you said my catchup was peppered with hearts and smilies but that's also kind of my thing so ???
- I defended beeboy hoping they would create content. Why is it weird that I gave them the space to do so?
- I explained the unvote on you as well so *shrugs*
- I gave RCE the same treatment as beeboy because I wanted content from the slot. I would do that with any slot. Why is that, to use my words, "off"?
- Did I not name Jingle? It was Jingle that wanted me back on RCE.
- Yeah, iirc I was busy and disappeared. It's a common theme here. I thought you'd have picked up on that by now.
(those are responses to the point forms but not every point form but I tried to give the context needed to see what I was responding to)

re: the quotes and tunnelling/focusing
First I said I was worried that was what you were going to do, not that it was what you were doing, and that I'd keep an eye on it.
Then I responded to you doing what I expected to see you do to one slot on another slot and went "huh, that might be AI and what I was expecting, just in a different direction than I'd though." This after like what 15 pages of being stuck on the same benign point!? Where was I wrong?
And no, I don't think I've tunneled you this game actually. I believe I said I'd reconsider things on you many times and if you look at my posts, I've come around on you a lot. Just because something keeps reemerging doesn't make it a tunnel.
And you keep directly asking me to address the points around you, so obviously I'm giving you my time because of this. You're creating the tunnel you are perceiving which is kind of funny actually.

I guess tho to address the first bullet point of this whole thing where you say I've done nothing to address my read/case on you and have not Iso'd you or addressed my softbackpedal as you called it, all I can say is that I keep coming back to address you but your points are the same thing over and over and I don't know what else I can say on most of them any more. Maybe we should go back to reading each other based on interactions with others because clearly we're not getting anywhere via interactions between each other. That said I'm happy to address whatever you like, I merely feel like it's all just rehashing old things I've already talked about.

Okay but like... I also hate meta/don't regard meta and I still wanted the slot dead for not contributing? And then this defense really doesn't do anything at all for explaining why you kept defending RCE or at least passively ignored him when he WAS posting content? I guess that's my larger issue. You never commented on RCE's content one way or the other which left him to kind of have a lifeline to fight for himself.

My point about your real time engagements and one i asked what was you had gleaned from them, what did it help you realize, how did it help you sort anything bc there was none of that thus far. And you still don't answer that here

I am not inventing the tunnel out of nowhere Ari, prior to your last catch up, I would wager 80-90% of your content was specifically or tangentially focused around me. You absolutely did tunnel and you're trying to duck responsibility for it which is just *wild* to me. Like yes, I "tunneled" on Adorable by pursuing a contradiction I caught out and wanted to push on it. I've also done 900 other things.

If my points are the same thing over and over then like, maybe that's a sign that they're sticking and OTHER PEOPLE SHOULD LISTEN TO ME idfk.

Also you're not voting them so ???

Do you scumread DV more strongly? Is xof a backburner read for you?
Like not voting them but complaining about them being here and being scummy is, well, not a good look.

Ninja'd
This was @Creature

I don't even know what I'm doing. I'm trying to see a world in which both xofelf and DeasVail are town and so far that world would most likely point you as scum.

rn my lynch choices are like either you or one of DV/xofelf and the latter has like my team's total support.

I guess you should vote for them then. I mean, I'm town and I think those two slots probably are soo so, well, Iunno what to tell you here.

Oh, and inb4 Reck coming in to say I'm scum with DV because DV townreads me now and I am telling you to vote somewhere else when your vote is on him even though this is totally reasonable with context considered...

this is just baseless posturing. I townread DV. I have the entire game.

ARI IS LITERALLY INVENTING A SCUMREAD AND PUTTING IT IN MY MOUTH TO SHIELD HIMSELF FROM ANY CRITICISM OR PRESSURE

Sirius/Xof were just low posters, being time strapped the idea was to get through the shorter isos first.

im not a 'low poster'

my posts are just low quality

I lol'd at this.

Also VOTE: Sirius

I know I'm fluffy at times but I can't get anything from this slot.
Creature, you want to vote a full null? This is the full null. At least xof has content.

Ari voting Creature over like any of the fluffy contentless slots for being fluffy and contentless is kind of hilarious here??
The only read I have on Sirius is from forever long ago where he dug up an old random post and my team was like "Unlikely that scum goes digging like that just to make a joke 30 pages too late" but I don't know how I feel about Sirius overall I guess now that we're this deep.

Okay hi, this got pushed further down my list than I intended it to. I get it, my lack of interaction and engagement comes across as AI, I wish it was, it's just seasonal depression. But! I am going to say fuck it and do shit in spite of it.

So we're going to start with making a decision about Ydrasse. She's scummy. Let me tell you why I think she's scummy. She's kind of queen of stalling. If you look through her iso, a good half of her posts are wait I'll get to this later or now I can do things! and then not doing anything. Now I know this coming from me, is especially pot kettle. But let me give you an example of what I mean. Let's take a look at 1249, she's got this energy to really bite into this game, and I know I was excited to see what she was going to do with it. And then she spends her next god I don't know how many posts with some real weird interactions with Hectic. Maybe they're friends or whatever, I really don't care, she does nothing actually constructive with her posts. She just creates noise, and with a game that is already apathetic with interaction, it doesn't feel like a towny thing to do to add posts that don't do anything towards solving. That just feels like upping page count to maybe kill motivation of reading and posting for a game which is already suffering.
The first time she gives content, it's a reaction to Bulge's read list which, she only says "yeah bulge is town for this." "+town bulge" and does not elaborate on any part of what she actually agrees on for content. She does suddenly engage with Datisi, and writes up 3 paragraphs of why she thinks he's town, but it's also just a lot of extra words and a lot of it is just meta related talk. Which kinda feels like she has enough past experience with Datisi to specifically point out past situations that will make Datisi feel a certain way about what she's saying rather than have him just look at the words she's using and this game alone. And then she does revisit Bulge in 1415 and it boils down to "oh his reads are similar to mine" which anybody can just say.
And then there's that whole weird whatever the fuck in [urlhttps://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?p=12585717#p12585717]1515[/url] like, if this is a joke what the fuck, how is this a funny thing? But also, this does not seem like the time or place for yet even more shitposting.
But I'd also like to circle back to some of the only information we have and can theorize about, peta's flip. I wanna take a look at post 910. He votes for her for a lot of her fluff and then disappearing, and not doing much of anything. And it could be argued that a lot of her OKAY I'M GONNA DO STUFF, is in reaction to Peta who was town and looking at her style of play and wanting to attempt to look like she's doing things in order to not have the same suspicion on her.

So Ydrasse is still doing the make posts for the sake of posts and content that doesn't mean anything under much scrutiny at all. So, with that in mind.
VOTE: Ydrasse

P-edit: Ari, when I had initially looked to post this morning, you had promised to do stuff and you hadn't actually done anything and I was real annoyed. BUT in the rest of the day since, you've actually stepped up to try to do what you promised. Keep it up. I'm still not sure where to put you, but you're giving some amount of content so hackles are down for now.

This is pretty good actually. It vibes w/ my overall bad tummy feelings whenever Ydrasse goes into a 9 page AtE bullshit spamfest with Hectic and then Hectic unilaterally declares her to be town for it. I've seen his arguments for it being +town points (cough cough it's all meta cough cough) but xof put my incomprehensible screeching into actual words here. Again, mindmelding

Sure, what's up?

What don't you like?

I've been talking with the team and well, I tihnk we've landed on an Ydrasse townread. Her posts are just too laid back in a lot of ways to be coming from scum, almost as if she's not worried about how she looks.

I get that she's a lot of filler fluff but there's also a lot there to work with and I don't think this is a game where filler fluff is a good idea for scum. I just don't really see it after looking at it with this in mind.

Ari I would argue that a lot of her posts actually seem very focused on how she looks.

Why don’t you think filler fluff is good for scum?

gah. DV too.

seriously I wish I just had a neighborhood with them so we could solve the game for everybody bc I feel like they're the only people I'm clicking with.
either one or both of them are just really good at pocketing me BY ACCIDENT or they're town and I don't think xof or DV are pocketing me

*observes*

this kind of shit is REALLY gross and it fits with my thought that scum had the plan of sitting back and letting town just devour each other

Deas states RCE is looking a lot like scum straight after RCE posts for the first time. No one else has reacted to RCE's initial posting and Deas is the first to do so. Scum!him has no way of knowing how people will react to it, unless he didn't have any part in helping RCE in the PT, and just let him post a fairly weak catchup. I think scum!Deas doesn't just put forth this RCE-catchup-bad narrative right from the getgo, but would at least allow others to react to it first. Like, this was RCE's first posts, it's close to a clean slate on a lurker-slot rep-in, Deas doesn't need to do this to his partner as scum.

mmmm this KIND OF seems like TMI? like it is not wild or unbelievable that scum!RCE replaces in, realizes that the slot is doomed, and tells his buddies to bus him. I don't think that's what happened here to be clear. But I think Hectic's insistence that it just couldn't have happened and therefore DV is town just seems forced. hamfisted. weird.

im skipping meta shit so i dont have to copypaste meta is trash 500 times

am at work rn VOTE: xofelf

xof teetered on me back and forth for the game, defending sometimes sometimes not, their name got floated around and they came around and had suddenly decided i’m scum and now here we are

idk how they reacted around rce but i can read when i’m home, just like. ya

THIS is just blatant OMGUS. empty. reasonless. xof "teetered"? how is teetering scummy? when did xof's name seriously get floated around anymore than it was all game? this just feels gross.

~I'M SKIPPING ALL THE BULGE CASE STUFF FOR THE SAKE OF TIME SINCE I KNOW THERE'S A CLAIM OUT~
FWIW Bulge's claim looks completely bulletproof tbh. Esp the part about peta posting that image and Bulge thinking that's why he was killed first. I keep forgetting scum KNOWS the setup IDK if that changes how I should be scumhunting but it adds an interesting wrinkle to everything

oh HEY ARI VOTES COOL I LOVE IT

I'm not quoting them but Ydrasse is just back to AtE spamposting and flirting with Hectic instead of posting content

SHE JSUT GOT DONE VOTING FOR XOF BECAUSE XOF IS APPARENTLY SCUM AND THERE'S NO PUSHING, NO PRODDING, NO GETTING OTHER PEOPLE ONTO XOF HERE.
it's just empty. i don't know that I believe that Ydrasse believes her own scumread

And then Ydrasse puts Ari at L-1 hrmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm

Hectic asks for self-meta from Ari, Ari gives self-meta, Hectic quickly unvotes and removes pressure from Ari being at L-1.

I feel like I'm taking FUCKING CRAZY PILLS

jesus christ it's like Ydrasse realized one time she could post that gif and it would defuse any suspicion or anger directed towards her and now she just posts it on repeat CONSTANTLY OVER AND OVER and people go "ahaha, look it's that gif! anyway, what were we talking about"? it's like the goddamn flashy pen thing from Men in Black

oh right updated stack


datisi
sirius
adorable
reck

xofelf
ydrasse

deasvail
creature
ari

ugh this list. we're so far apart on our reads bulge. i'd drop sirius and adorable down, move xof and dv up.

i literally do not know what i think about creature. they are an enigma. they post in a way that is like... impenetrable to reads imo. my team is zero help here and has largely stopped reading along unless i prod them for something specific. one thing that AGar flagged like a week ago was that creature had ari as a townread from the very beginning of the game without ever explaining it, that's it.

i see DV is now addressing Creature too

Okay regarding Creature, I have (obviously) throughout the game had many periods of doubt about him but I keep coming back to a townread and I think I'm staying there.

I don't think I'm going to be able to perfectly explain my Creature read right now as it is a read I feel like I have solidly come to as the game has gone on but there's just so much stuff he has posted that I would find totally strange to come from scum.

For example, so much of Creature's ISO is about how DGB thinks me/xofelf are scum. It's beyond tired! It's so old that it's made a trendy comeback five times already. It honestly just looks... terrible. First it's deferring all responsibility of a read to a teammate which i feel like is the kind of thing people would easily latch onto, and secondly the fact that it's a repeated thing also just incites negative emotions (in me at least). But the problem is I don't think any of it is more likely to come from scum and could totally see this coming from Creature town where he's a bit lost in the gamestate and DGB is probably not completely engaged in the game but has these reads that it was passionate about early on and is just sticking by them. It is a world that I can see and hear and even taste!

I thought 1210 was very towny because it's exactly how I expect Creature-town to feel there.

These are to me more recent solid examples where I see Creature post things that I think scum would stop themselves from posting because they look bad but in fact they actually align with how I expect Creature-town to be thinking and it just makes sense to me in a weird way.

DV is this just Creature is too scummy to be scum, I'm not sure the ultimate point ur making here?

Who are the viable votes for me Datisi?

I am not going to vote Ari or Creature

why won't you vote Ari?

PLEASE FUCKING VOTE ARI

do you scumread anyone????

my preference is deas obviously

Ok
Deal

VOTE: nO oNe AhaHaHAh

Uh I’ll vote tomorrow morning

There’s 20 whole hours

i will hammer this at deadline or if it gets to L-1 without even fucking blinking, what a sack of useless shit this slot has been

[xRECKONERx]

@MOD: please fix my spoiler tag above so it's not blowing up the screen ty

TL;DR

• Ari has done nothing to actually address or make me feel better about the initial points that felt gross to me and people need to start justifying their townreads on Ari
  
• The people whose entire games consist of just townreading people (cough cough Ari Hectic Adorable cough cough) need to start narrowing down scumreads
  
• Ari is our best chance of hitting scum. Second on that list would be Ydrasse.
  
• I am going to hammer any slot that gets to L-1 unless it's xof or DV. I will literally let us go to No-Lim today over voting those slots

ok that's all

[xRECKONERx]

I was literally checking in to see if I need to hammer and Creature unvotes. Are you fucking serious.

[xRECKONERx]

I don't even know when deadline is

[xRECKONERx]

Ok we still have ~7 hours I guess but that's 5AM my time so I will not be around as of like 2hrs-ish from now

This DV wagon is fucking awful though. I don't want to hammer this. Please for the love of god why the FUCK are we not yeeting Ari into the stratosphere. Or fuck I will take Ydrasse

DV is so bleedingly town here I feel like I'm on meth

[xRECKONERx]

i can't wait for reck to murder all of us if this flips green ahahaHahA

IF YOU THINK IT'S GOING TO FLIP GREEN WHY TF ARE YOU ON THE WAGON

[xRECKONERx]

Please for the love of god why the FUCK are we not yeeting Ari into the stratosphere.

DV himself is defending Ari though

I KNOW THAT'S WHY IT'S INFURIATING

[xRECKONERx]

I was literally checking in to see if I need to hammer and Creature unvotes. Are you fucking serious.

I though you were refusing to hammer DV or xof?

I don't want to but literally a town lim is better than no lim since it at least PROGRESSES the game

We don't lim anybody, we're stuck in these same circual fucking stagnant arguments tomorrow just with a dead PR if Bulge isn't lying

[xRECKONERx]

is ari legitimately not happening

for FUCK's sake

i have to go to bed. it looks like sirius has the most votes. do you guys want me to throw down the L-1 before i go

[xRECKONERx]

yknow what fuck it im not NLing

VOTE: Sirius

have fun goodnight

[xRECKONERx]

I mean it's a slot that's doing nothing and even though they had some flashes of townieness earlier they've done fucking nothing and i truly believe scum are content to do nothing this game so like whatthefuckever it's a fine yeet at this point but HOLY FUCK WHY ARE WE NOT KILLING ARI I LITERALLY DO NOT UNDERSTAND

[xRECKONERx]

Ari so help me god I am going to bed and if I wake up and you've let us go to NL I'm going to vote park you the remainder of the game and not even a fucking cop claim can stop me

[xRECKONERx]

IF YOU ARE TOWN AND YOU PUSH ME RIGHT NOW YOU ARE LITERALLY THROWING

let em come out of the shadows

[xRECKONERx]

VOTE: Aristophanes

we back fam

[xRECKONERx]

My reads...
Oh fun...

first things first, who'd you target, Bulge?

second things second,
VOTE: Creature

why Creature

[xRECKONERx]

@Bulge: I want to confirm if you check someone and they've already performed a kill you get nothing right

[xRECKONERx]

Or do you get a pos/neg result specifically

[xRECKONERx]

Reck, Creature, why oh why are you voting me?
Reck, we need to get over this. My team thinks you're likely town last I checked in. I'm also town. Please try to consider things.
Like look at the EoD last phase. Does scum prod Sirius for info? Would I not have hammered Bulge?
I get that we've been at each other since the start but I mean, it feels like you've gone full tunnel and I feel helpless to stop it.
Also I like your Avatar, it's amazing! But I haven't commented yet in case you think I'm pandering or trying to suck up. But honestly, I think it's hilarious and clever

Look

I don't know how to get past this bc you're so blatantly scummy to me and I feel like i am on meth because nobody is listening to me
The fact it's impossible to get anyone to bite on it actually DOUBLES my confidence that you're flipping scum

"Would I not have hammered Bulge" are you asking if you, as scum, would hammer a claimed town PR and therefore guarantee a swift death the following day? No, I don't think you would have done that, I think you would've been suicidal to do that unless you're just so damn confident in your buddys ability to go deep

Plus look, Bulge is still alive despite claiming town PR. This means either he's lying or scum are not afraid of his PR. This would also translate to scum's risk/reward calculus in whether or not to hammer a claimed PR

thank you for commenting on my avatar

[xRECKONERx]

Oh, one thing: Why'd you think Datisi was town yesterday Creature?

what are you doing with this

[xRECKONERx]

Creature had some weird interactions around beeboy. I also had a feeling scum said in the thread they town read petapan on day 1 and Creature was one of the players who town read petapan on day 1.

VOTE: Creature

Why do you think scum said peta was town

[xRECKONERx]

And it sure felt like trying to get as many claims out in one shot as possible, and I hate that shit.

Yeah the end of yesterday is something I need to revisit bc in the moment I don't think I was able to fully process everything

[xRECKONERx]

Creature had some weird interactions around beeboy. I also had a feeling scum said in the thread they town read petapan on day 1 and Creature was one of the players who town read petapan on day 1.

VOTE: Creature

Why do you think scum said peta was town

petapan is a really good scum player and he is the kind of player town needs to be cautious on. I was wary of petapan on day 1 worried he would be a deepwolf in the end since I did not have him on my town read and since petapan got killed on day 1 then this made me think he got town read by a scum player.

I'm not sure this answers it for me, why specifically do you think scum called peta town at the start

[xRECKONERx]

who all is in favour of having me leashed? I'll share my thoughts after I get some responses.

Leashing a doc seems like a very smol pp strategy

[xRECKONERx]

I did my whole catchup post. Creature wants to make it Ari vs DV. Bulge hops on the DV wagon. Creature put DV at L-2, then immediately hops off onto Ydrasse with DV when DV tries to flashwagon there.

This is now the second day in a row where Ydrasse has been flashwagoned at deadline. I'm not sure what that means but I'm flagging it as a pattern.

Creature calls DV/Ari/Ydrasse all town despite having voted two of them in the last ~10 posts.

Datisi seems to be shading Ari near the end, lambasting him for not wanting to rush reads/wagons.

We get a bunch of GIFposting between Ydrasse/Hectic. So, tinfoil time, it seems like any time Ydrasse gets momentum on her, Hectic comes in and flirtspams the thread with Ydrasse until there's no more momentum, giving Ydrasse plenty of cover to AtE her ass off. Hectic hides it all behind a meta read and says he has Ydrasse at the top of his townpile now. I feel like... this is Hectic potentially trying to pocket Ydrasse? Come in when she's under even the slightest amount of pressure, gigglespam some bullshit until people want to vomit looking at the thread, keep Ydrasse deep in the pocket. Creature calls it scum theater but that seems too brazen. I guess I could see a world where they plan out those interactions in the scum PT but I find it way more likely it's a blatant pocketing attempt.

Creature then tries to flashwagon Adorable at the end of the day. ? I don't recall Creature saying anything ab Adorable before this. Then as soon as I'm back yelling about the multiple disparate wagons/vote hopping he's back on Aristophanes to end the day.

DV's VT claim is probably true. I can't see scum claiming VT in that situation when they are at risk of just getting turbofucked by a speedwagon at deadline.

Ari now hops on Ydrasse when Creature asks what to do, having already seen the flashwagon attempt from DV/Creature so he knows there's opportunity there. I just don't fucking know man, there's so much weirdness from Ari's play. The Ydrasse flashwagon already came and fizzled, why are you trying to restart it right now?

BOOM Creature is back on Adorable. Also shading xof on the side via DGB's second hand account.

There's a post Hectic makes here about how DV not going after Ari despite decreasing his odds for survival that just rubs me the wrong way. It feels like scum talking out how town should behave in a situation to rationalize a vote hop rather than organic town thought, if that makes sense?

Hectic then derails all the momentum on Adorable for a last second flash wagon on Sirius. I show up before bed and toss down a vote.

I can't even be mad about the Sirius wagon. He did nothing all game and then showed up at the very end when getting wagoned just before deadline to whine about being wagoned.

Hectic shows up to declare the speedwagon he lead at the last minute is going to flip town but that "this is the wagon for today".

This seems to be a pattern. Hectic jumps on or leads a wagon on someone, then declares them to be town. Actually Hectic's entire game is weirdly built around declaring people town and following townreads. I generally find that to be scummy because it's way easier for scum to hide behind townreads they know to be true than try to manufacture scumreads on people to push mislims.

It's a similar vibe as to why I'm reading Ari as scum still, because we're on Day 3 of this game and I cannot tell you one single scumread Ari has pushed or committed to.

Anyway, I don't know if that helped me at all.

I've got DV/xof/Bulge deep in my "Will Not Touch" bucket right now.
I think after re-reading everything, my top picks for scum right now look like Ari, Creature, and Hectic? Ari is something I just can't shake. I worry that I'm getting tunnel vision where I can't see anything he does as pro-town, but like, I legitimately have tried to reread his posts from a townie mindset and am just not getting there, there's too much scum motivation I read. Creature's constant vote hopping end of day yesterday looks extremely bad, as does Hectic's. They both hopped around a ton and killed momentum on wagons at the last second. They both lead wagons on people that they covered their asses by saying they thought were town. Multiple times. I refuse to believe that scum had no part in the end of day bullshit yesterday.

So... there.

[xRECKONERx]

i too will be considering my reads tonight

in the meantime why is xof off the table for everyone right now? they still are on it for me

Because I cannot fathom a world where the vast majority of xof's post come from someone playing with scum motivations

[xRECKONERx]

This seems to be a pattern. Hectic jumps on or leads a wagon on someone, then declares them to be town. Actually Hectic's entire game is weirdly built around declaring people town and following townreads. I generally find that to be scummy because it's way easier for scum to hide behind townreads they know to be true than try to manufacture scumreads on people to push mislims.

I vote and pressure someone I think is scum, give reasons for why I scumread them, people like or agree with my reasons, and vote with me. The Bulge and Deas both reacted in towny ways to pressure.

You're saying I'm both simultaneously scum hiding behind townreads because those are easier to manufacture, while acknowledging I've been pushing scumreads and leading wagons all game? Which is it? I scumread and gave cases on Deas and The Bulge and was the reason they were both wagoned. I don't understand this at all.

The Ydrasse pocketing thing is really stupid considering she would most likely be dead on day 1 or 2 if I hadn't convinced people she were town, and the fact my reasons are very good. I'm not unnecessarily defending her and it's not over the top. I'm defending her because I strongly believe she's town and she would very likely run up and mislaunched if I didn't.

I'm saying you back down off scumreads and call everyone town.

Literally, right now, you have it narrowed down to me/Ari/Creature not because you think we're scummy, because you've found reasons to town read everybody else.
You gave cases on Deas and Bulge and then backed down. There's not commitment and all it does is lead to you calling every person you wagon town. That's my point.

It's a similar vibe as to why I'm reading Ari as scum still, because we're on Day 3 of this game and I cannot tell you one single scumread Ari has pushed or committed to.

...
You can't remember me pushing Deas or The Bulge? Or beeboy/RCE from the previous day?

It'd be the easiest thing in the world for me to remain true in my pushes and continue voting them. I already gave the reasons for why I thought either of those two were scum, it's not difficult for me to just say I still believe in them. I change my mind because I'm actually changing my mind and think their reactions to pressure are towny, or change my mind in something previously they've done.

Unsure if OMGUSing or whether I really hate all of these arguments by Reck to force scum-motivation for my actions. Chip in please, townbloc.

You pushed beeboy solely off him not being here. Plenty of people did.
Though, I may need to reread that. I remember Ari's interactions there being weird as fuck but I don't recall your specific actions around that wagon. I'm more speaking broadly about you and Ari BOTH spending the vast majority of the game calling people town instead of pursuing scum reads.

"It'd be the easiest thing in the world" until you have to commit to a read. I don't know, man, I look at your list, I see that you've called everyone town except three people (which, by the way, you HAVE called me town already before, I'm just in your scum pile now because I'm "less townie than other people" which is a bullshit PoE reason). I think your reasons for calling people town are flimsy. Like, you started calling xofelf town after it was convenient to do so. There's one comment from like two weeks ago where you agree with my stated reasons for xofelf being town, that's it. Why does xofelf get perma-town status from you off of one post that was noteworthy whereas you called my posting giving you "big town vibes" yet that gets faded to the background. I'm trying to find the progression there. I'm trying to find the progression on Ari going from a townlean you hard defended all the way to your scumpool. There isn't any that I can see. Feel free to illuminate where these reads progressed from if I'm missing something.

[xRECKONERx]

Unsure if OMGUSing or whether I really hate all of these arguments by Reck to force scum-motivation for my actions. Chip in please, townbloc.

I really dislike this, though.

Hectic's natural response to me even LIGHTLY pressuring him is to set up for an OMGUS on me, but he's using this "town bloc" he put together to preemptively justify it so he can absolve himself of committing to a read.

I still think Aristophanes is scum. I need more associatives to find the last one. beeboy being gone + RCE being dead in the water makes it really hard to read any tells around him to know how scum would react. I'll give it a reread at some point to see if I can glean anything about Hectic from his play around it.

[xRECKONERx]

Because it's the only thing you do. Because it's way easier for scum to avoid heat by staying out of the spotlight. Call people town, they won't look twice at you most of the time.

I find it way more likely that scum calls a bunch of people town and uses PoE to determine their reads bc then there's no read to defend. It's just "welp it's PoE".

This is from experience, this is just what I've seen happen a million times. Scum have a much easier time calling town town than calling town scum, that's just basic psychology. Scum want to tell the truth when possible to minimize the chances they're caught in a lie and calling town by their proper alignment is the easiest way to do that.

So yeah I'm gonna raise an eyebrow at anyone with too many townreads and no scumreads

[xRECKONERx]

I know I'm being defensive but I'd rather nip this in the bud now rather than waste time being looked at when I'm feeling pretty good about my scumpool (who we should be looking at)

I mean you have me in your scum pool based on "everyone else seems town" so like excuse me if I'm not exactly willing to let you just waltz away with calling me scum based on PoE and then going ab your business

If you want to deep dive you can do that with me exerting the SLIGHTEST amount of pressure on you my fucking god

I'll respond to the rest later jesus

[xRECKONERx]

Oh actually my meeting got canceled sweet, I have time now:

xof would not be an easy mislim here, because of people like me and DV both townreading them.
But that's beside the point.

You have stronger reasons to believe the others are town? Let's break it down, shall we?
- Ydrasse is town because meta.
- xofelf is town because of RCE's interactions with them.
- DV is town because he got put to L-1 and didn't crack under pressure.
- Bulge is town because of his claim.
- Adorable is town because you don't think Discord conversations can be faked.

That's it. That's what I've seen you give as reasons for "strongly townreading them".

I'm not even saying you're wrong about these reads. In fact, I think you're right about them for the most part. What I am not buying -- specifically -- is that you feel/believe these reads SO STRONGLY that it has lead to you playing the scumhunting game via PoE. Especially the way you've broken down your WIP reads list. You read all emotional play as town. I know we've been over this before but it feels like you're working backwards from the outcome you want. Any emotional outburst/tone where you want it to mean "town" means town. Any emotional outburst/tone where you conveniently don't want it to mean town doesn't mean town. I'm having trouble parsing what I'm seeing as inconsistencies in your logic here.

Like shit, even your reasons why Ari could be scum -- because even though meta says town, he has a team that could coach him here... isn't this like, the exact reason you're TOWNREADING Adorable? Because she has a team that is coaching her and she wouldn't fake those coaching interactions?

I contest the idea that you're "out of the spotlight". You've not received a single eyeball directed your way the entire game until I just put you in a potential three person scumpool, and your reaction has been to flip out/get super defensive over like two sentences in a catch up post I made. I'm the first one to drag you out into the spotlight to defend your actions. That's pretty out of the spotlight IMO, and I stand by my characterization of your play thus far.

"I play scummy because if I was scum I'd play townie" is just nine levels of moonbeam pants-on-head stupid that I'm not going to even dignify it by pretending like I give a shit about your self-meta.

You're welcome to continue your promised dives on the three people not in your town list now, as most everyone else has done this game while under mild to moderate pressure without grinding things to a halt!

[xRECKONERx]

I'm honestly doubting my Reck read

which Reck read is that

[xRECKONERx]

I have not yet, I am going to get to them this weekend

[xRECKONERx]

D&D ran long today, sorry -- I will have time tomorrow to review Hectic's posts on Ari. And everything else.
Also Ari please answer my last question if you haven't yet

[xRECKONERx]

lol what, Reck hasn't been scum in 4 years

I was scum like last year with UT in Legends of the Hidden Temple 3

[xRECKONERx]

K I'm doing the writeups now sorry guys.

I saw this tho so Imma help Hoctac out:

lol what, Reck hasn't been scum in 4 years

He was scum in MafiaSunny

lol holy shit I already forgot about this

God I got robbed by luckshit night actions

[xRECKONERx]

So I read hectic's dive on Ari. I'm not entirely sure what the hell to make of it??? It's stream of consciousness style back and forth. Some Ari posts are town. Some are scummy. I'm not entirely sure what commentary you're expecting back from me Hectic.

I agree w/ some of it. I disagree with others (like why is Ari pointing you to a recent scumgame somehow town indicative instead of NAI). Or why the "LEGENDARY" Ari post makes him town because you're literally just falling for "too scummy to be scum" there.

I think your read on Ari, to me, FEELS a lot more even-keeled so I was kinda surprised to see you vote him midway through? It felt more neutral in reading but maybe it's because I get angry at any mention of him being town lol

But in any case, I don't really know how to respond to that dive other than to like, clap and applaud that I'm finally being listened to and we might kill Ari today

[xRECKONERx]

The town points were minor compared to the scummy stuff I found. I'll summarise why I think he's scum for you, Reck:

-Felt like he was faking analysis, for example, why he was talking about Datisi/peta having partnery stuff based on 4th vote rvs memes
-His reaction to Ydrasse when she voted him felt over the top and out of character for him
-The times he speaks about the beeboy slot sounds partnery

<- this is the biggest reason by far

-Him wanting to back out of a 1v1 with you apparently, but that clearly not being his true intention in that post

I mean hey, you don't have to convince me here. I've wanted Ari dead for *checks notes* the entire game now

[xRECKONERx]

I was paraphrasing there, obviously
AGar's position was that lurkers would obviously be replaced in Team Mafia as opposed to other games, IIRC

I also stood by that position and still do. beeboy did get replaced

[xRECKONERx]

Ari's 2374 is the most town looking thing he's posted and it's giving me pause.

[xRECKONERx]

VOTE: Unvote

That's a really good Ari post. Like, acknowledging that maybe going would help people to solve better will always register well for me. Also after watching the Marathon Survivor tonight, I feel a lot better about Ydrasse and Hectic. Like, it'll mean very little to most people, but just, having an idea of what it looks like when people are pressured or lying and just their general sort of vibe kinda helps me a lot and is something I look at and is a bit universal between LSGs and mafia.

So that leaves me with Creature and Adorable and question marks. Adorable I've never known what to do with and I still don't. Creature's iso is very sparse, and there's this defeated feel to it all that I can't quite pinpoint why it exists, but it doesn't quite feel like the same sort of lethargy the game is having. Reck, talk me through both of these slots, would you? We've been pretty on par thinkingwise a lot, so I'm curious where you would put them.

If I'm being completely transparent, I have no fucking idea how to read Creature. His posts are obfuscated and feel like I'm reading someone's made up shorthand for thoughts and opinions and not anything concrete or readable. The biggest thing with Creature is that I don't like his play at the end of yesterday bouncing around wagons. I don't really like his play today of trying to derail the Aristophanes momentum at the last minute. But I don't think I can point to a specific set of reasons as to why he's scum or whatever. I've asked my team for Creature reads too and what I get in response is a lot of shrugging and head-scratching.

On Adorable, I'm being lazy on this read. Adorable is playing like a complete newbie and I always have trouble telling newbTown apart from newbScum. The early stuff D1 with the weird contradictions got written off mostly as TSTBS, even by me, and the responses felt sorta genuine. I also felt like enough people were weirdly stretching to defend Adorable that I was reading it as white knighting which would make Adorable town. However we haven't flipped any of the knights to see if that holds up.

[xRECKONERx]

VOTE: Creature

for the love of fucking god

[xRECKONERx]

VOTE: Creature

for the love of fucking god

I'm trying to understand your issue here

One town-looking post from Ari with the help of his team while on death's door does not erase the entire game's worth of scummy play.

[xRECKONERx]

Who else do you think is scum?

I am not sure. I had my scum pool as Ari/Hectic/Creature, and it's probably still there. Hectic and I kinda briefly engaged over my scumread of him and then just left it. I just feel and have felt so fucking strongly about Ari for so much of this game that if we go somewhere else and Ari squeaks by again I'm going to lose my mind.

[xRECKONERx]

Who else do you think is scum?

I am not sure. I had my scum pool as Ari/Hectic/Creature, and it's probably still there. Hectic and I kinda briefly engaged over my scumread of him and then just left it. I just feel and have felt so fucking strongly about Ari for so much of this game that if we go somewhere else and Ari squeaks by again I'm going to lose my mind.

Literally, this is why I know I need to die here. I don't want to. But it'll un-tubnel Teck and hopefully let town win this.

I will be strung along until an ELo situation when scum will get Reck on me for game over. It's transparently obvious unfortunately.

I have personal and team responses to a couple things but also studying for a driving test tomorrow (ya, 30 and just getting my license. Imma be all Olivia Rodrigo soon ) so stuff will happen here another time. Sorry about that.

STOP POSTING SHIT LIKE THIS TO PREY ON MY FUCKING ANXIETIEIS

[xRECKONERx]

a;slkdjf;laksjdf;lkasjdf

is ari actually fucking town right now. i swear to absolute unholy christ on a goddamn pornographic cracker i am going to lose my mind

am i being set up to just turn on ari in lylo. is that my role? my purpose

[xRECKONERx]

[xRECKONERx]

Who else do you think is scum?

I am not sure. I had my scum pool as Ari/Hectic/Creature, and it's probably still there. Hectic and I kinda briefly engaged over my scumread of him and then just left it. I just feel and have felt so fucking strongly about Ari for so much of this game that if we go somewhere else and Ari squeaks by again I'm going to lose my mind.

have any of hectic's recent posts had an impact on your read on him? the other two in the pool line up with what i think but i feel like he sticks out like a sore thumb

you probably think i'm pocketed by him but ya know

no if anything I think you're pocketing Hectic not the other way around

I don't buy your AtE bullshit flirty shit like Hectic does but maybe it's because I'm gay and immune to your horseshit

[xRECKONERx]

Huh, why am I in your scumpool and not Ydrasse if you think the pocket is happening the other way around?

It's really weird. If I look at your playstyle and things that ping me in a vacuum, they're scummy. But I don't read your play with Ydrasse as pocketing, because Ydrasse is the one initiating all the AtE which you're blindly defending, I don't see it as something YOU initiated. So if I'm reading the "pocketing" or AtE interactions

specifically

, I don't read them as YOU pocketing HER.

[xRECKONERx]

a;slkdjf;laksjdf;lkasjdf

is ari actually fucking town right now. i swear to absolute unholy christ on a goddamn pornographic cracker i am going to lose my mind

am i being set up to just turn on ari in lylo. is that my role? my purpose

I'm sorry Reck <3
I feel you man!

But like, look at the game. You are going to get this elim eventually. They keep toying with you, bringing me to almost an Elim and then switching elsewhere. Just needling and preparing for the easiest Lim ever. Like if the thread suddenly decided to agree with you in 2 phases when, assuming worst case and we MisLim today and tomorrow with no saves, is 2:3 ELo. You would jump on that shit so fast and it's game over.

Even if it happens tomorrow, then you get shade in ELo and a towny would be likely to misplace a vote leading to game over.

Our 1v1 status continues and it's the best thing scum could have hoped for this game imo.

Either we resolve it by Elim or we resolve it in reads atp ikc which in all honesty. But it has to be resolved.

This keeps making absolutely too much sense.

Okay @Ari: who are the scum setting us up for this then? And where is the evidence or the steps they've taken to do it?

[xRECKONERx]

I literally just gave thoughts on him less than 24 hours ago

[xRECKONERx]

HAPPY BIRTHDAY DV!!

Ari's 2374 is the most town looking thing he's posted and it's giving me pause.

why? I agree it looks good but, like, to me that says absolutely zero about his alignment in team mafia.

Calling me town over and over again when I've been his biggest detractor the entire game doesn't feel like a particularly scum-motivated play to me
That being said, he did have an entire team behind him helping him with that post and it wasn't the first time he'd been under pressure this game

Creature's insistence of it being me/xof is odd, and if this flips red it gives me extreme pause on my xof read.

I don't know what the votes are at right now. The Ari wagon *once again* got to L-1 then completely evaporated. I don't fully understand why that keeps happening or what it means.

@MOD Pls votecount pls

[xRECKONERx]

Uhh hmm.

Okay, intent to hammer.

[xRECKONERx]

I know we already got a claim mostly giving space if anybody else wants to chime in.

[xRECKONERx]

this is definitely a prod dodge, i’m not... really moved by creature skimming over his posts but i’ll look back later if he’s not hammered? idk how to read him well but it doesn’t seem like he’s really had a lot of growth this game wrt his reads (will double check this if he’s still alive in like ~8hrs)

Serious question: what is to gain on your end from not hammering right now if you're not moved by his posts and think he's scum and promising to just come back later and read more

[xRECKONERx]

Looking at Creature's post I see he is suspecting xofelf and I have also been suspecting them which was already explained. It also looks like xofelf is playing careful and cautious.

but

you're voting creature?

Creature has been suspicious of xof for like... ever
Why do you suddenly care

[xRECKONERx]

I have been suspicious of both Creature and xofelf and I have been thinking one of them is scum and the other town.

Why do they have to be different alignments? What lead you to this conclusion?

[xRECKONERx]

Ari, who do you see Ydrasse as scum with if not Creature?

Why do you not like a Ydrasse/Creature scumteam?

Honestly, Iunno. I don't see the two of them vibing as a scumteam, though I haven't really been considering associatives until recently so I'll have to get back to you on it.

If I do a PoE off the top of my head taking out townreads and those that don't make sense I get...xof or adorable I guess? Scumteam is probably within the four of them.
The four being {Adorable, xof, Ydrasse, Creature} and I know that's too many people but I don't see scum outside of it other than the possibility of Hectic. I really liked Dann's input there though.

>Creature is in your scum candidates pool
>He's at L-1
>You're about to try to start a counterwagon?? To a scumread that's at L-1 and has claimed VT??

Walk me through this Ari

[xRECKONERx]

I guess that's a good point.

I've been clearing Bulge on the claim mostly because the petapan crumb theory makes 100,000 levels of sense. If scum actually killed peta because they thought he was crumbing the JOAT that would point to Bulge having setup information knowing he could safely claim Psychologist and have a sweet kill crumb to go along w/ it.

Hrmmmmmm. I need to probably reset my entire game at this point. I still want to think Ari has high % chance being scum here because I don't think my three person scum pool was completely wrong (Ari/Creature/Hectic). But two town flips out of that pool with back-to-back power roles being killed gives me pause.

[xRECKONERx]

Hang on -- why are we mass claiming, exactly?

I get people are spooked because we lost two power roles in a row but it's not even LYLO yet. All mass claim does is tell scum who to kill to get their most optimal endgame if they're trying to find other PRs. Plus not gonna lie, every kill scum has made has taken out a big question mark or scumlean for me, so I'm kind of a fan of forcing them to continue their current pattern.

I guess if there's a cop or tracker or some kind of investigative with a guilty then yeah, go ahead and out because it'd be nice to get a 1v1 today, but otherwise mass claiming seems dumb?

I don't think so... if you're scum, massclaiming is a terrible idea. You should claim first and then argue for why massclaiming is optimal

Pedit: Scum currently don't know the mason in the rest though

Our dead friend was adamant against mass claiming yesterday.

Funny enough, so was DeasVail:

A mass claim doesn’t achieve much at all for town right now

@DV: What has changed between today and yesterday to make you so eager to mass claim, whereas yesterday you said it wouldn't achieve anything for town?

[xRECKONERx]

Did an iso scan of RCE for how many times he mentions or addresses each other player.

Datisi 12

DV 10

Hectic 8

Reck 6
Adorable 6

Peta 6

Sirius 4

xofelf 3
Ari 1
Bulge 1
Ydrasse 1

Creature 0

So -- if there was planned scum theater, the only person that could've been part of it is DV. The bulk of RCE's time spent in his brief stint in the game was engaging with DV and Datisi, and Datisi flipped town.

I also think it's worth noting the people that RCE just straight up didn't engage with - Ari, Bulge, and Ydrasse.

I don't know how valuable this is. This is like my third, fourth time rereading RCE's posts. There aren't many of them. Nothing is jumping out at me. Knowing we have some townflips from people I think had weird play around his wagon makes me wonder if the weirdness was the way in which RCE was caught (scum meta on beeboy who never even posted really), versus how much of the weirdness is from potential buddies trying to manuever in the game without looking awkward.

Notes from the re-read:
* DV and RCE's interactions feel weird. After like two RCE posts, DV hops in to unilaterally declare him as scum. Possible bus? In the scum PT: "Just come after me hard before anybody else, I'll fight as hard as I can but I'm probably dead anyway".
* xof's 829 is still so odd to me. I just cannot see scum!xof taking that tone and that angle on that post as RCE's buddy. I'd think scum would want to be committed to a read here on their buddy to get town cred for it. RCE already had a surge of momentum against them, the writing was on the wall, and I'd expect a buddy to either overcommit to the bus or give a full-throated defense as a hail mary. This is neither. (Maybe I'm falling for TSTBS but I think this is something different.)
* petapan unvotes and is quickly followed by DV in the unvote train. Knowing peta was town paints the DV unvote differently... DV unvotes with an empty post, then comes back later to clarify the unvote. Guilty conscience?

There's just so little here. I'm super glad we got a scumbag with the D1 vote but at the same time, the slot has so little there behind it.

If I'm going to erase all my reads and start over today, I think I'm still fully on board with xofelf as town here. The one thing I feel like I CAN glean from the RCE posts is how weird it would be for scum!xof to choose to engage him in that way. If I'm looking for a performative buddy who engaged in a turbo bus for town cred, it's DV. If I'm looking for the obligatory buddy that RCE ignored, it's one of Ari/Bulge/Ydrasse. That would by default put the town bloc I want today to be me/xofelf/Adorable.

@Adorable: With Creature flipping town, what does this do to your read on xof?
@xofelf: What's your current read on DeasVail?
@DV: Apologies if you've explained this before, but what was it about RCE's first half a dozen posts that made you commit so hard to the scumread?

[xRECKONERx]

I mean I see why we'd want to mass claim today over yesterday, with a PR dead and it being unlikely we accidentally force another to reveal since it's probably just me and the mason at this point. but why today over tomorrow? massclaiming today tells scum exactly who to kill (me, because they know who I'll protect) whereas withholding that information allows for more possible outcomes, maybe to our benefit.

I know you have to say this to hold your perspective but I'm taking your claim with an extremely large grain of salt right now. Feel free to push me for this, IDGAF. The Psych flip puts your claim under extreme scrutiny, and you're completely unproven.

If you're fakeclaiming scum, going to massclaim here just means you get the other town PRs out in the open to line up the kills.

Actually wait -- okay, let's assume you ARE town and telling the truth about your role. What makes you think the entire town setup is just two masons, a JOAT, and a doctor?

[xRECKONERx]

I'm advocating to not massclaim today, to be clear.

obviously the longer I'm alive the less I can blame someone for being suspicious of my claim. I get it. but why go with such a bizarre ass claim that looks so unlikely next to that flip? actually, forget how mine and hectic's roles look next to each other, where do I even come up with that shit??? You know from my crumbs that my claim is either legit, or a fakeclaim planned since pre-game. please explain to me what kind of galaxy brain plotting it would take to come up with such a claim, and where the hell I'm going with it.

nothing in particular makes me think that's the setup, but it doesn't sound unreasonable, does it?

Uhh I mean scum knew the setup from the start?

Like if you're scum then yes you probably DID kill peta because you thought he was breadcrumbing JOAT and you whiffed so when you had to claim you claimed something you knew wouldn't get CC'd by the JOAT but could use the crumb to make you look townier?

I don't think that's really "galaxy brain plotting" required to pull that off? It's very reactionary and easy IMO

As for the setup, that looks hella low power to me but I haven't reviewed or made a normal setup in like five years or something. Maybe my perception of balance/power is off but I feel like one scum PR needs more than what you've claimed + masons + what looked to be a mostly weak JOAT. I guess I'm not super interested in pursuing this line of dialogue actually, nevermind.

[xRECKONERx]

Creature flipping town puts my suspicion back on xofelf. xofelf's approach in this game does look like they are playing careful and cautious and Creature also brought this up last day phase. I also read through RCEnigma's iso where he was asking xofelf questions and I still wonder if that was busywork on what RCEnigma was doing to make his scum buddy look town before he gets eliminated.

What are your reads on the rest of the game outside of xofelf? For convenience:

DV
Reck
Aristophanes
The Bulge
YDrasse

[xRECKONERx]

I am now ready to start my re-reading and attempts to solve the game! I don't know how much I'll get through right now but we'll see how far it goes I guess.

Aristophanes

I... don't think that Aristophanes is scum. I don't remember finding any of the suspicion or cases on him very convincing, and in going back to read his posts, I still can't come to any conclusion other than town.

I stand by my early thoughts on Ari which I posted in 634.

There was a void in which Ari barely posted at all but I do not think that is alignment-indicative.

And there are lots of more recent posts that I think are quite indicative of town rather than scum.

--> I think that the appeals to Reck to reconsider his scumread on Ari are indicative of town. Examples: 2065, 2158 - I may have missed some but essentially there's this theme of Ari not really knowing how to read Reck and thinking he might be town but also knowing that if Reck is town then Reck is terribly wrong about Ari's alignment and derailing the game because of it. It makes sense as a town thought, plus the repeated way in which Ari appeals to Reck to reconsider looks earnest to me. I struggle to explain exactly why but I would expect Ari as scum to do it differently, for there to be something more awkward about it. I could see scum just ignoring the tunnel and being all "yeah whatever, I'm not bothered by this!" or something more performative, but the way Ari reaches out to Reck is just how I would expect Ari to try and do what he thinks is the right thing and try to convince people that he's town. As scum, I don't think Ari would expect that the above linked posts would achieve anything whatsoever, but when you're town, you think what you say counts for something, that maybe people will listen.

--> Response to his impending elimination:
- 2304 - Of all the things to post, Jingle scumreading Hectic is so low-yield as scum that I would be surprised by Ari-scum posting it, especially since it actually is followed up by actual content. If the plan was to do an aesthetically pleasing post such as 2374 then the weird thing about Hectic being scum is kind of unnecessary from scum. But does make a lot of sense from town who thinks there's a deepwolf (seems to be what the cool kids call it nowadays) that will get missed by the town. Obviously a lot of this stuff is fakeable. I expect scum under pressure to come up with content. I expect them to do things in an attempt to look town, but the combination of the hectic scumread and BIGPOST feels like a weird combo from scum just because I think they would either take one approach or the other.
- 2425 & 2432 - I actually think the defeatism from Ari here is pretty town. Just think, if Ari were scum, there would still be many potential miselim options. People were getting to the point where they were looking at

everyone

squinty-eyed. Adorable, xofelf, me, Reck. Not many people were immune to suspicion. Maybe only Hectic and Bulge. So it can't be scum feeling truly defeated because they wouldn't feel defeated there. Ari had just had people commenting on how his response to pressure was town and momentum was shifting towards Creature. BUT I can see town-Ari feeling frustrated that people keep suspecting him and truly thinking that his elim would need to happen in order to progress the game. Whilst I believe scum-Ari feels increasing confidence there after fighting off his elim, town-Ari still has no idea who scum is and thinks it's only a matter of time before people consider him again.

There are other little things that reinforce my read of Ari but I think those are the two main umbrella points that most convinced me when reading through Ari's ISO again. I think it's highly unlikely that I consider voting Ari out, but of course I will be prepared to listen to disagreements. Apologies if I didn't explain where I'm at very well but I do feel quite confident in Ari being town.

Your bottom two bullet points are basically just "too scummy to be scum" and/or endless WIFOM circles.

What do you think of Ari's behavior around the RCE wagon? I find it baffling that you just reread Ari yet don't mention any interactions with the only flipped scum that we have.

[xRECKONERx]

Like, RCE/beeboy essentially gave up on the wire when pushed to elimination, and you're putting your eggs in the "Ari gave up when at L-1 instead of pushing a mislim!" basket?

[xRECKONERx]

Well that's a flip I didn't see coming.

Uhmm...what does it say about Bulge, both having Psychs?

Hectic was an outside scumread but still.
The recent deaths lwave {adorable, xof, ydrasse} which isna weird trio.
Ydrasse seems both likely and unlikely, the latter due to Hectic's flip.

Imma think on this.

This is just screaming at me that it's scum without even rereading anybody else yet.

1. Awkward commentary on the flip because scum feel compelled to say *something* about it
2. Lightly throwing shade at Bulge's claim without committing to ACTUALLY throwing shade at Bulge's claim (I happen to think the shade is warranted for the record)
3. I don't even know what "The recent deaths lwave {adorable, xof, ydrasse} which isna weird trio." means so I can't really comment on that.
4. Fence sitting on Ydrasse by calling her both likely and unlikely scum -- this is nothing, this is bet hedging.
5. Promise to think more on it rather than any questions or engagement.

[xRECKONERx]

cooooooooooooool everyone good job

[xRECKONERx]

I don't know that I still see the need for massclaim but I'm not wading into that right now

I've had an extremely bad 24 hours (err more like last 6 weeks lol) so I can't brain at this tonight. Later.

[xRECKONERx]

Bulge baby I need more from you

You too xoffypoo

[xRECKONERx]

yea this'll get a solid evening of attention from me tonight or tomorrow. in the mean time, can someone explain why xofelf is town in as much detail as possible? like give me the entire case. It is insane to me that anyone is townreading them, and a lot of those reads seem very strong, and I just don't see it at all.

xof's reaction to RCE doesn't seem like it comes from a buddy

+

mindmelding with me all game in a way that feels unfakable

[xRECKONERx]

Can anyone tell me what do they think of Xofelf? I did not like it when they called me and Summer a team. When I iso Xofelf at 829 they said along the lines of, "guys, we have 3 days and there is a single wagon, the fuck are we doing? We all need to step it up." What did Xofelf mean by this? They also said their reads are gutreads but I don't like gutreads.

xofelf strikes me as disengaged and ineffective but I'm not sure that's alignment indicative. xofelf isn't a standard mafia player, as in, they don't play a lot... and if you look at their whole team, it's comprised of people who may have a tendency to not be as engaged, which in turn wouldn't spurn xofelf to more activity. (Contrasting to my team, where if I start to fall behind or lose motivation, AGar or Keely will kick me in the ass to jump back in.)

I don't think xof lambasting people for being scattered on diff wagons is really bad but:

- 829 is such a blatant defense of RCE that I cannot imagine xof would've done that were they buddied with RCE. I know that I am probably flirting with "too scummy to be scum" again, but I'm more specifically talking about how xofelf FRAMES RCE in context. It's not about how pro-town RCE is, it's about how empty and lethargic the game is.

- xof has had the same thoughts as me at very similar points in the game, which is always going to be +townpoints in my mind.

- xof is going hard on calling me town, when I expect scum in a similar position would see some momentum shifting my direction and drop some little shade here and there to open me up as a viable mislim later on. Instead, not only is xof doubling down on that, they're bringing in Ceph's reads on me as well to solidify the position. Sure, it could be white knighting, but to what end? I wasn't under a ton of pressure, so it's not earning them any town points.

The ONLY point against xof that I am having trouble grappling with is the hop back onto RCE at the end. It's a little on-its-face... it feels like a very weak reason to get on that wagon to get some last second town points. Like, if I'm scum sitting off the RCE wagon, "well idk ab this but my teammate said to do it" is about as hamfisted and forced as it can get. So there's a world in which I guess 1057 is a scumpost meant to bus a buddy with "N1 vig claim doesn't sit right with me". But the body of the rest of xof's work isn't pointing to scum-xof imo.

[xRECKONERx]

Uhhh I don't know if xof fears me necessarily, I'm actually not sure xof has enough mafia experience as of late to fear *anybody*

I also didn't see much active pocketing going on I guess it was more like me picking up on things put down, which would be a v subtle form of pocketing?

The hammer is weird yeah it's my only sticking point re RCE/xof, but I just... if xof made 829 as an RCE buddy I will be fucking floored

[xRECKONERx]

I don't know that I still see the need for massclaim but I'm not wading into that right now

I've had an extremely bad 24 hours (err more like last 6 weeks lol) so I can't brain at this tonight. Later.

Why are you fucks browbeating a massclaim through here like what

[xRECKONERx]

And thank you

Popcorn to xof

why are you directing the claim I don't fucking get this

[xRECKONERx]

i think scum know more and can setup claims n an advantageous order for them

this also isnt popcorn claiming

[xRECKONERx]

Okay well it's just me and Ydrasse that haven't claimed right

[xRECKONERx]

I'm also VT

[xRECKONERx]

@Ydrasse you're up

[xRECKONERx]

Huh. Ok no other PRs

[xRECKONERx]

cool and 2 conftowns

Yeah this is p much where I'm at, obvs xof is clear, and uh, I know it's maybe outguessing the mod but I feel like we NEED at least another PR on top of that to make this balanced? So like, cool

I guess there's a scum PR hiding in the VT claims somewhere but we can figure that out. That narrows things down significantly

[xRECKONERx]

the thing about you thinking that i had already claimed, and already claimed vt specifically, is that i think you slipped knowing what prs existed.

VOTE: aristophanes

Wait I don't follow this, what?

[xRECKONERx]

I'm uh. Hmmm.

I don't think it's thinking Ydrasse had already claimed, it's specifically that Ari

already thought Ydrasse had claimed VT

that is sticking out to me here. That would imply some sort of setup knowledge.

Ari, why is this a 1v1, exactly? Are you that confident in your read on me and DV?