TM 2021: A normal roguelike

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Post Post #2239  (isolation #400)  » Thu Feb 18, 2021 10:25 am

In post 2236, xRECKONERx wrote:It's a similar vibe as to why I'm reading Ari as scum still, because we're on Day 3 of this game and I cannot tell you one single scumread Ari has pushed or committed to.

...
You can't remember me pushing Deas or The Bulge? Or beeboy/RCE from the previous day?

It'd be the easiest thing in the world for me to remain true in my pushes and continue voting them. I already gave the reasons for why I thought either of those two were scum, it's not difficult for me to just say I still believe in them. I change my mind because I'm actually changing my mind and think their reactions to pressure are towny, or change my mind in something previously they've done.

Unsure if OMGUSing or whether I really hate all of these arguments by Reck to force scum-motivation for my actions. Chip in please, townbloc.

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Post Post #2240  (isolation #401)  » Thu Feb 18, 2021 10:37 am

In post 2234, DeasVail wrote:For now I am pretty sure Augustus, Adorable, Xofelf and Bulge are off the table for me, but my reads on everyone else feel less "updated" and I need to reevaluate.

I'm very happy you agree with me on these slots ftr. If you can trust in my Ydrasse-read, this day should be a lot less chaotic and make a lot more sense if we focus efforts on the slots that actually contain scum.

Right now, I'm wagering it's Creature + 1 of Ari/Reck.

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Post Post #2241  (isolation #402)  » Thu Feb 18, 2021 10:52 am

Actually looking forward to DIGGING in and reading through those Ari/Reck interactions now. I doubt that's SvS given how bad of a strat that is after a scum buddy goes down day 1.

Also, thinking [Ydrasse, Puff, The Bulge, xofelf, Deas] are town only leaves [Creature, Ari, Reck] as a PoE. I didn't even realise earlier it was that small lol. Really believe we have 2 scum in that pool.

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Post Post #2244  (isolation #403)  » Thu Feb 18, 2021 11:17 am

In post 2242, xRECKONERx wrote:I'm saying you back down off scumreads and call everyone town.

Literally, right now, you have it narrowed down to me/Ari/Creature not because you think we're scummy, because you've found reasons to town read everybody else.
You gave cases on Deas and Bulge and then backed down. There's not commitment and all it does is lead to you calling every person you wagon town. That's my point.

Why is this scummy? Why is it scummy for me to change my mind about people I initially scumread and push?

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Post Post #2245  (isolation #404)  » Thu Feb 18, 2021 11:18 am

In post 2243, xRECKONERx wrote:I really dislike this, though.

Hectic's natural response to me even LIGHTLY pressuring him is to set up for an OMGUS on me, but he's using this "town bloc" he put together to preemptively justify it so he can absolve himself of committing to a read.

I've laid out why I don't like your reasons. I also acknowledge I could be OMGUSing. I want a second or fourth opinion on something I'm biased on.

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Post Post #2247  (isolation #405)  » Thu Feb 18, 2021 11:26 am

In post 2242, xRECKONERx wrote:"It'd be the easiest thing in the world" until you have to commit to a read. I don't know, man, I look at your list, I see that you've called everyone town except three people (which, by the way, you HAVE called me town already before, I'm just in your scum pile now because I'm "less townie than other people" which is a bullshit PoE reason). I think your reasons for calling people town are flimsy. Like, you started calling xofelf town after it was convenient to do so. There's one comment from like two weeks ago where you agree with my stated reasons for xofelf being town, that's it. Why does xofelf get perma-town status from you off of one post that was noteworthy whereas you called my posting giving you "big town vibes" yet that gets faded to the background. I'm trying to find the progression there. I'm trying to find the progression on Ari going from a townlean you hard defended all the way to your scumpool. There isn't any that I can see. Feel free to illuminate where these reads progressed from if I'm missing something.

xofelf is a very viable mislaunch right now actually if I was scum. Ydrasse and Creature both scumread them.

Besides that,uh, what was it, you think it's weird for me to have you/Ari in the PoE when I individually thought you both town earlier. Well, you said it yourself, I have stronger more tangible reasons to believe the other 5 slots are town. I made that reaslist to verbalize on those reasons. I couldn't find those same obvious reasons that speak out to me for you two. I thought you town because of town energy or vibes earlier on, and stuff you're saying generally made sense. That's fine but not something I can really see and believe in is actually of substance to think you're town.

Ari I thought town because of meta and the fact I haven't seen him get mad in like the 5 scumgames I'e looked through of his now, and he has been mad at you this game. I also then considered that he has PINE, and DANNFLOR, and one other person I can't remember the name of (terribly sorry but I'm sure you're also a good player) on his team, and that if needed, they could literally feed the solving to him for him to change the wording of, oh yeah, it was Jingle, sorry, Jangle. But yeah, or at least assist him heavily in. They're also aware that Ari doesn't get mad as scum, so may have encouraged or helped him to fake some. Considering these things and the strength of the players on his team, especially at playing scum, has made me value my metaread there a whole lot less than I did before.

So, I'm gonna ignore meta now, and read through all of his posts and read him solely for his actions THIS game. You should be elated.

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Post Post #2248  (isolation #406)  » Thu Feb 18, 2021 11:34 am

In post 2246, xRECKONERx wrote:Because it's the only thing you do. Because it's way easier for scum to avoid heat by staying out of the spotlight. Call people town, they won't look twice at you most of the time.

I find it way more likely that scum calls a bunch of people town and uses PoE to determine their reads bc then there's no read to defend. It's just "welp it's PoE".

This is from experience, this is just what I've seen happen a million times. Scum have a much easier time calling town town than calling town scum, that's just basic psychology. Scum want to tell the truth when possible to minimize the chances they're caught in a lie and calling town by their proper alignment is the easiest way to do that.

So yeah I'm gonna raise an eyebrow at anyone with too many townreads and no scumreads

Mm, this is fair as a general thing. But again, you're saying scum find it easier to stay out of the spotlight and just fake townreads rather than scumreads, but that isn't what I've been doing at all. I've been making scumcases and pushing scumreads with reasons on why I think they're scum. If Deas or The Bulge were launched, I would be the one responsible. I don't get where you get that impression of my play from.

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Post Post #2249  (isolation #407)  » Thu Feb 18, 2021 12:00 pm

Point being is that if I WANTED to, I could maintain a scumread on any of those slots I pushed previously, and I very much don't struggle to fake scumreads as scum. You can't say I'm scummy for no longer having any strong scumreads now when I have done before for good reasons, and ones that people called me town for. You have to explain why it's a scum-motivated decision for me to have those scumreads, to only decide to lose them later rather than stay consistent.

And let me lay on some JUICY self-meta:
if I were scum, I'd want to play this as cleanly and consistently as possible. I'd show clear progression, wouldn't be impulsive, and wouldn't let go of scumreads and resort to using PoE on day 3. I'm aware people townread players when they really believe in their pushes and remain true to them. Mislaunching someone isn't considered scummy if you think the pusher really believed in their reasons, so I wouldn't be at all afraid of hanging onto those scumreads. Reason I haven't here is because I'm town and odn't believe in them anymore.

I know I'm being defensive but I'd rather nip this in the bud now rather than waste time being looked at when I'm feeling pretty good about my scumpool (who we should be looking at)

Actually, that's a lie, mostly it'd just be stressful and would make me have less fun this game, and I want to be selfish and be able to scumhunt in peace lol

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Post Post #2250  (isolation #408)  » Thu Feb 18, 2021 12:10 pm

Isis, I bought Monster Train earlier today. Post a votecount in the next 48 hours if you want me to provide a diary of my progress here

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Post Post #2253  (isolation #409)  » Thu Feb 18, 2021 1:01 pm

Would be nice if it was just Creature + Ari

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Post Post #2255  (isolation #410)  » Thu Feb 18, 2021 2:17 pm

Had some questions for you, Creature

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Post Post #2257  (isolation #411)  » Thu Feb 18, 2021 3:16 pm

Yeah, okay, that's fine. And I'm defending myself.

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Post Post #2261  (isolation #412)  » Thu Feb 18, 2021 3:31 pm

In post 2259, xRECKONERx wrote:You have stronger reasons to believe the others are town? Let's break it down, shall we?
- Ydrasse is town because meta.
- xofelf is town because of RCE's interactions with them.
- DV is town because he got put to L-1 and didn't crack under pressure.
- Bulge is town because of his claim.
- Adorable is town because you don't think Discord conversations can be faked.

I don't know why you're simplifying them like this. I have several good reasons for each:

In post 2224, Augustus Caesar wrote:
Spoiler: WIP ordered reads
Ydrasse -

POSTIVES:
I'm extremely confident Ydrasse is town for tone and emotion.
Firstly, for her end of day 1 reaction to being counterwagoned to scum.
Secondly, for her emotional reaction to Datisi pushing her. More in .


Puff -

POSITIVES:
Initially, I thought her town since her entrance was very LHFey, and I'd expect some level of coaching from teammates.
This was a towny post in perspective that I see unlikely as coming from scum!Puff.
Overall, her play is antagonistic and draws a lot of attention, I think it unlikely she's the type of player who comes out swinging like this for Team Mafia.
Akarin and Puff had talked about the game in a previous day, and Puff had not presented these reads to us previously. She only felt the need to share them when she thought she was going to be mislaunched, and didn't want Akarin's thoughts to go to waste. I find it unlikely Akarin prepared notes for Puff to share to look towny at a later date, and I think the recounting of the discord conversation felt real.


The Bulge -

POSITIVES:
The crumbs for his claim, and his suspicion on peta for the psyched post.
The Bulge's play since then has just looked a lot more towny, the arguments make sense.
His annoyance at me for outing him in posts like this, and others.
His highly emotional entrance start of today.

NEGATIVES:
I have one major hangup with The Bulge, and it's him expressing fear of being nightkilled. I think it's more likely he makes that post as scum, since it has the benefits of making him look like a PR and he doesn't have the concern of not being nightkilled. Being a PR however, it's somewhat careless and I'd expect more caution.


Xofelf -

POSITIVES:
Initially thought their posting felt organic and natural, I think they believe what they're digging at.
I think it's very unlikely xofelf interacts with RCE in the way a scum partner would, and similarly the way RCE interacted with xofelf.
I like the way they scumread Ydrasse based on what she knows from playing LSGs. They're taking their skillset from playing social games like survivor, and trying to apply that to Ydrasse to solve her. I like it.

NEGATIVES:
I don't like the way they responded to me about my towncase on Ydrasse here, and here. It felt stubborn yet sympathetic and the contrast felt off. As if they wanted to disagree with me since Ydrasse is a possible mislaunch, but didn't want to step on my toes too much.


DeasVail -

POSITIVES:
Deas said he thought I was even more town after I pushed him, but never expanded on why. He only brought up why today, and the reasoning is solid and looks towny. The reason why I think this is so town-indicative, is that Deas had a good reason to think I was town but didn't feel the need to explain it to make himself look towny yesterday while he was nearly murdered several times, he only brought it up when someone suggested I might be a deepwolf the next day. Shows there's an underlying thought process there and one he didn't care to use to "look" town earlier.
If scum!Deas thinks Datisi is a mason or some other PR that he plans to kill in the night, I don't think he pushes him to the extent he does yesterday.
and bleed town to me. His concerns feel really real and I love the paranoia about him thinking he might be wrong about Ari, but still not wanting to counterwagon him.

NEGATIVES:
This feels oddly blunt for Deas, and I wonder if the difference is due to talking to a scum buddy and wanting to appear strong/unaligned.
My initial case on him. Didn't like how he didn't argue more for keeping RCE around for a night.


In post 2259, xRECKONERx wrote:I'm not even saying you're wrong about these reads. In fact, I think you're right about them for the most part. What I am not buying -- specifically -- is that you feel/believe these reads SO STRONGLY that it has lead to you playing the scumhunting game via PoE. Especially the way you've broken down your WIP reads list. You read all emotional play as town. I know we've been over this before but it feels like you're working backwards from the outcome you want. Any emotional outburst/tone where you want it to mean "town" means town. Any emotional outburst/tone where you conveniently don't want it to mean town doesn't mean town. I'm having trouble parsing what I'm seeing as inconsistencies in your logic here.

Mm, no, this isn't true, I don't just townread emotion. You and Ari have also shown emotion this game. I explained why I found yours to be NAI, and why I have recent doubts about Ari's being town-indicative. Creature has shown it too with him being frustrated/tired, but I'm aware he does this as both alignments.

In post 2259, xRECKONERx wrote:Like shit, even your reasons why Ari could be scum -- because even though meta says town, he has a team that could coach him here... isn't this like, the exact reason you're TOWNREADING Adorable? Because she has a team that is coaching her and she wouldn't fake those coaching interactions?

Sigh, that isn't the main reason I think Puff is town. I have several stronger reasons to believe Puff is town in that readslist, and I don't know why you're hoping in on the coaching reasons - my intial readslist didn't even have that reason btw, it's the one I perhaps feel least strongly about. You're also misrepresenting what I'm saying makes it towny for her. It's not that she's being given reads, it's the fact she had a previous discord convo that she didn't provide for towncred, but wanted to when she was being run up and nearly dead.

I townread Ari because the solving seemed genuine to me and I didn't think it was in Ari's scumrange. I know realise he has a team who could be faking it for him.

I townread Puff not because the solving is genuine or good, but because of the takes she decides to make - being antagonistic and voicing strange scumreads which gets her a lot of attention. This is not something her team is likely to be encouraging her to do.

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Post Post #2262  (isolation #413)  » Thu Feb 18, 2021 3:33 pm

In post 2261, Augustus Caesar wrote:I townread Ari because the solving seemed genuine to me and I didn't think it was in Ari's scumrange. I know realise he has a team who could be faking it for him.

*I used to townread Ari because the solving seemed genuine to me and I didn't think it was in Ari's scumrange. I now realise realise he has a team who could be faking it for him.

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Post Post #2263  (isolation #414)  » Thu Feb 18, 2021 3:45 pm

Would appreciate if you answered the other questions too, Creature.

Also, does anyone have any thoughts on my Creature-dive? Which Recks seems to have missed happening apparently:
In post 2259, xRECKONERx wrote:You're welcome to continue your promised dives on the three people not in your town list now, as most everyone else has done this game while under mild to moderate pressure without grinding things to a halt!


I feel a headache coming so I'm gonna save looking at Ari/Reck for tomorrow. I've refreshed this page WAY too many times today

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Post Post #2279  (isolation #415)  » Fri Feb 19, 2021 12:16 pm

@Aristophanes: Jingle is the only person to have helped you with this game? Dann hasn't read or commented on it at all?

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Post Post #2280  (isolation #416)  » Fri Feb 19, 2021 12:17 pm

@Creature:

In post 1864, Creature wrote:
In post 1863, Datisi wrote:why

I dunno if this feels like DV's sxumgame as I remember it

Did DGB chip in on her take on Deas around this time? What was it?



In post 1995, Creature wrote:VOTE: Adorable

Why'd you make this vote, considering your team had this opinion:

In post 1689, Creature wrote:I townread Datisi and Hectic. My team is strongly townread Adorable. Maybe I can start from here.

What changed?

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Post Post #2281  (isolation #417)  » Fri Feb 19, 2021 12:22 pm

In post 2273, DeasVail wrote:I haven't had as much time as I was hoping for today but I've looked over Creature and something I'm interested in discussing:
- Why is Creature as scum the first to unvote me from E-1 Day 2? (Switching to Adorable who I think would b a very unlikely elim from scum's PoV) It's the start of what made my elim wagon no longer viable for Day 2 and seems like an unnecessary risk for scum. Creature certainly wouldn't have been immune to a quick wagon and I probably would not have been considered the sort of person by scum that could just be eliminated later. (I would also suggest that a Creature scumflip would make me very unlikely to be scum but that could be a matter of opinion. At the very least, I think Creature-scum probably thinks that if he flips before I do then I'm much harder to miselim.

You think so? I don't see any talk of Creature being the possible CFD (Crazy Fire Drill) by any players around that time. Maybe he felt safe in his position given he was really active around that time and seemed to be one of the main players trying to sort out a launch before the deadline.

As for why scum!him would want to move to Puff over you... hmm. I suppose he knows you're a VT and Puff is potentially another role to out? Or maybe he didn't want to be on the mislaunch end of day and assumed you'd still go through.
shrug

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Post Post #2282  (isolation #418)  » Fri Feb 19, 2021 12:24 pm

In post 2267, Ydrasse wrote:i am very tired and have been lately, sorry about this, but i did wanna say that im like... almost positive im not being pocketed.

its not like the worry hasnt been on my mind bc like, in theory hectic has me right where he wants me if hes scum: hes done the most to defend me where he literally did not have to at all, and for like... what benefit? a long term pocket for endgame? doesnt he stress out about how this looks and appears because hes going hard for me for reasons that people are consistently going ??? at. to me it makes more sense to do that because he is town and like... idk i dont wanna get deep into meta but he knows how i play better than anyone else and he can read me like a book LMAO. i can't really do the same as well in return + have scumread him incorrectly before but this game, it'd be like. if he's playing scum he's playing the "okay let's just play messy as i want" sort of thing for how yesterday's eod went. it was chaotic sure and it looks very apparent after the fact that he was spinning the merry go round but to me he is just trying to find the best person to elim, and is re-evaluating in the places where he isnt as strong to try and figure shit out

uhhh. so yeah, thats that, if im being pocketed im the biggest fool in the world and im going to kill him after this game so this is his one warning but thats not really in the realm of possibility... barring the way that he helped to take down rce when he didnt have to, the way hes been willing to like... not just steamroll through elims on people he sussed (deas comes 2 mind) and gives them room, all that. i get him wanting to not deal w it because if i was in his shoes id be pissed people doubted me lmfao. he's really just town this game and i don't think that's the place to be hunting. i'd say right now but i also just dont think you ever go there... ever, to elim?

so ye

You're right btw. My vocal confidence/defence of you isn't one that hasn't done me many favours in looking towny. I'd probably defend you as scum, but definitely not to this extent

Glad I've deep pocketed you though. I'll save you for the 3p lylo

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Post Post #2283  (isolation #419)  » Fri Feb 19, 2021 12:25 pm

In post 2282, Augustus Caesar wrote:isn't one that hasn't done me many favours in looking towny

*isn't one that's done me many favours in looking towny

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Post Post #2284  (isolation #420)  » Fri Feb 19, 2021 1:07 pm

In post 367, Aristophanes wrote:Also why wouldn't Grumpy Cat have posted this? They were in Backrooms with Puff and it would make sense from them! At least keep your alt-knowledge straight bro :P

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Post Post #2285  (isolation #421)  » Fri Feb 19, 2021 1:28 pm

This post is easier to understand and read if you open up Ari's ISO alongside it, and then read it while using this as reference.

o is null
+ means slight townping
++ is moderate townping
+++ is strong townping
= means slight scumping
and so on


+ unafraid to jump on/how that looks
o
o
o
o
== fillery question
o
= he can look this up easily himself
o

It is at this point I realise there is absolutely no use of including the posts that are null. Only including posts which give town/scumpings from this point onward

+ pointing me straight to his best scumgame in recent memory

= hmm, multiple arguments have been put forth on Puff being both towny and scummy, so this feels odd

== dislike the wording of "keep an eye on you". last part of that post really doesn't make sense. Ari is saying Puff is strange and easy to vote, and reck's vote shows what he means, therefore, reck is scummy for it. isn't that argument self-fulfilling? or something like that. i don't know the term for it.

= "easy slot to tunnel" is a misrep of Reck's approach towards me at this point, he doesn't think I'm scum

and - Breaking this up into segments, since they're meaty ones

In post 367, Aristophanes wrote:The earlywagon on Sirius seems NAI entirely as it happened far too quickly to mean anything. I think the staying power of the votes might say something though.

+= Interesting assessment, but what does the staying power say

In post 367, Aristophanes wrote:The Hectic intro was obviously a prewrite and the gimmick in the first few posts is to establish it. I'm not putting weight into them and will be disregarding the gimmick for the most part, as I have been when reading their posts.

= This isn't true, given . potentially sounds more like something Dannflor would tell him to say

In post 367, Aristophanes wrote:Oh dear lord I'd actually not read Ydrasse/Hectic doing whatever it was they did with their alt storytelling interactions on pg 2 and I guess I actually owe Reck an apology.

= this made up a large part of page 2, if Ari isn't really reading properly, why say this:

In post 80, Aristophanes wrote:I don't think anyone else is active enough for a real early read yet


In post 367, Aristophanes wrote:That said pg 3 Hectic is towny and I think he has a good handle on the earlygame here. Switching abruptly from the blatant altposting to the actual game content posts is +town and I think it says a lot. Scum Hectic could easily have kept up the games and not said anything helpful there.

+ decent reasoning

In post 367, Aristophanes wrote:This interaction, or lack thereof, gives me partner vibes on Datisi and Bulge, though we all know how reliable preflip associatives are especially this early in the game. I'll be keeping an eye on them regardless.

= oof, both Datisi and The Bulge were joking there and obviously not being serious. I don't like the attempt to form reads off of this

In post 367, Aristophanes wrote:I know I'm questioned later on my wording in response to my response to this response, but what I meant by Reck using this to tunnel them, as I believe I put it, is that if Reck sticks to the rage or commentary about this slot and thefact that Alts shouldn't be in this game and gimmicks are dumb rather than providing content I think that is scum indicative and a way to look busy without actually contributing. I haven't read what they've said after that response but I'm hoping they're *doing things* because otherwise this could indicate scum!Reck. I hope that makes things clearer here.

= mm, is that really likely considering Reck just said he wasn't going to read ANY of my posts? how would he keep up rage/commentary about a player he isn't reading?

In post 371, Aristophanes wrote:Adorable did a contradiction in RVS and followed it up with a flimsy reason based on their personal abilities and expectations within the game. I think that's fine tbh. I didn't read malice or intention to lie within the stream of posting. Is this a case of LAL? Because that's super weak, especially at such an early point in the game.

+ matches my thoughts about Puff at this point
= don't like the comparison to LAL

In post 371, Aristophanes wrote:Oh ew, what a weird question to UnoReverso.
Wtf is this??

+ fair prodding at this interaction

In post 371, Aristophanes wrote:Reck, like, what do you expect as an answer here? "Yep, I guess I did have a reason. Oops" is about all I can see them saying in response to that and like, who cares at this point? There's a lot more to comment on and question and being hung up on an omitted answer that can only really be one thing and was done during the RVS stages of the game is just too much man.

== mm, don't like this. why can't she give that reason? I think it's completely fair to prod Puff for this given she hasn't acknowledged the question or attempted to answer it, or given a reason for why she can't answer it. feels whiteknighty

That's the end of those meaty posts. By this point, I'm scumreading/disliking a lot of what Ari is posting, but also I'm actively worried that I'm confbiasing myself. I'm glad I'm doing this though. My previous read on Ari was literally "he's doing a lot of solving, scum!Ari does not solve to this extent at all. He must be town", so uh yeah, that was dumb.

= peta and Datisi both point out why Ari's partner read is dumb and he doubles down rather than seeing their point, don't like

In post 373, petapan wrote:no offense but it feels like you're forcing analysis here

yeah, that's exactly what it feels like, peta

++ this LEGENDARY post. the one where Ari talks directly about beeboy and soft defends him. if he's scum here, he's making himself look terrible with this defence. I just feel like scum are so much less likely to defend a completely inactive partner in this fashion. your argument is unlikely to convicne people otherwise when the partner is inactive, and it makes you look terrible if that person goes down. is this too scummy to be scum? idk. I still think this is more likely to come from ignorant town than bold scum. if Ari is scum, he was very careless in making this post, and cared more about making himself look towny with reasonable takes, rather than caring about how this made him look in terms of associations. maybe he expected beeboy to be replaced and the slot to be turned around and not launched day 1? who knows

I'm taking a break at this point

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Post Post #2286  (isolation #422)  » Fri Feb 19, 2021 2:44 pm

Alright, BACK into the fray

- Another meaty post, so will be breaking it up into sections

In post 378, Aristophanes wrote:Oh good, nothing to say from page 8. Just past game meta arguments that Idgaf about from Datisi/Bulge, Adorable saying whatever, and the weird conclusion of the Sirius/Bulge thing that again makes Bulge look bad. Might have to case Bulge after this tbh. Seems I keep coming back to them.

Also, Sirius, something AI would be really nice from you.
Thx.

+= Why does Ari sound so pissed off in general here? I recall Ari being friendlier/fluffier as scum, so this would be town-indicative, but it also feels a little forced here. i'm not sure

In post 378, Aristophanes wrote:Uh, this is kind of the hyperfocusing on one thing that I was worried about with Reck WRT Hectic. I think he's found a new target and honestly this is a pretty big red flag imo. FoS on you my friend.

+ honestly, that Reck post gave me the exact same vibes

In post 378, Aristophanes wrote:And as I asked Reck, what honestly do you expect their answer to be here? Everyone being stuck on this shit is legitimately stupid.

= puff can explain why her statements were contradictory, or at least talk about/acknowledge what everyone's on her case for. this might be a case of difference in tmi; where town can see the obvious problems with Puff's statements, but scum!Ari is informed of her being town, and so immediately knows she's just being dumb and not to worry about malice. and again, tone feels weirdly annoyed coming from you, Ari

In post 378, Aristophanes wrote:This. Scum also wouldn't have avoided the question like they did. This is why the pages of uproar about it are so fucking ridiculous and likely have scum hiding within the uproarious bunch imo.

= peta only says that after Puff clarifies more on it, which allowed people to actually read more into her alignment. i dislike the take on the pages of "uproar", when they were necessary to getting those responses out of Puff to allow us to townread her

- ANOTHER meaty post. grumble grumble

In post 381, Aristophanes wrote:I think I just answered this in my most recent post, but I think you are strongly on the town side of things. Your followups were reasonable, the explanation here as to why you asked them things specifically is good, and I like the say you reacted to and rethought your trajectory in that slot in particular.

+ good read

oh, I don't actually have any other pings for this post

-
In post 384, Aristophanes wrote:No problem. I mean I wouldn't say no to that but also your conviction here combined with a decently budded townread on you leaves me willing to believe you on this. I don't think it will be my vote at the moment, but I may join you later.

== eek, this reads partnery though. the "I don't think it will be my vote at the moment, but I may join you later." part. ari is being very careful about the way he talks about this slot here, which I noticed in this post too:

In post 381, Aristophanes wrote:I suppose this is a reasonable point. I don't think I have recent enough beeboy!scum meta to say anything either way here. People say the same about me when I can't produce and it's definitely something worth looking at, but I'd expect it to happen after at least a second proddodge.


-
In post 393, Aristophanes wrote:Datisi, well, I want to scumread you for tone but I also am fairly certain I'm wrong. I think we're going to be at odds for a lot of this game but I also don't think being at odds is necessarily scummy. Like, you're not null because I don't have a read on you but because my read is entirely conflicted.

+ I like how's he conflicted about Datisi here. he gets scumpings from their tone but knows better than to think it scummy

== what on earth is this comparison of beeboy to xofelf? the difference is very obvious; xofelf has posted actual content, while beeboy has simply prod doged. this also looks too scummy to be scum, but the actual reasoning being so bad here makes me lean maybe it just scum

= interesting, Ari jumps at Sirius for defending beeboy here via activity, but Sirius doing this is only sus if beeboy is scum, which Ari should not be sure about according to what he's said in his previous posts. gives the impression Ari already knows beeboy is scum which makes this Sirius defence suspicious to him

+ calling out beeboy immediately disappearing again

Overall, I actually read the way he talks about beeboy partnery now. It feels stilted and like he's trying really hard to sound reasonable/uninformed about him. I'm like halfway through his ISO.... time for another break. It's probably a good thing if I split this up into multiple posts anyway, and I'm not spoilering because I want people to actually read this and not miss it.

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Post Post #2289  (isolation #423)  » Fri Feb 19, 2021 3:25 pm

Creature, why do you ignore me

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Post Post #2294  (isolation #424)  » Fri Feb 19, 2021 4:00 pm

- this post is a doozy. oh god, I just searched 'doozy' up and it's an informal term used in the US. what is this site doing to me

In post 609, Aristophanes wrote:Pretty sure we're set on beeboy and while my stance that it's mostly NAI remains, I'm not actually against it.

=== huge yikes, considering this:
In post 381, Aristophanes wrote:I don't think I have recent enough beeboy!scum meta to say anything either way here.

If he doesn't have meta on beeboy, then why is his stance NAI when peta is clearly highlighting meta on why it's scum-indicative for beeboy specifically? I don't know the scum motivation behind Ari making these stances, but they just feel fake based on what he's said prior, and the context of the thread

In post 609, Aristophanes wrote:I do find it interesting that Reck voting there while saying "meta is trash, but lets yeet this guy" is mostly accepted while my saying "screw meta and let him have a chance" is mostly not accepted but I think that's also probably not as telling as I'd like it to be.

= slight misrep. Reck doesn't want to yeet him because of meta, it's because he's doing absolutely nothing

In post 609, Aristophanes wrote:Uh, mostly okay with day ending whenever so we don't stall out and will vote beebs is I need to despite them being as null as one can be.

= again, why not a single comment or thought on the meta arguments? why still null?

In post 609, Aristophanes wrote:Like the more I think about it while writing this the more it looks to me like a blatant misrep of me in order to discredit me and this read I have on you, and I'm not cool with it.
I would legit Eliminate you if it were my choice. Alas it's not and I must therefore drop it for now. But this is not going away. I am already regretting the unvote I've made in this post and it hasn't even been posted yet.
In post 616, Aristophanes wrote:I literally backed off because it's not going to happen today. I'm not shading you, I'm scumreading youm but I have enough sense not to drag us into a 1v1 right now.

= This is contradictory. Ari says he unvoted despite scumreading Reck because he doesn't want to distract everyone with a 1v1 right now. However, the vote is basically meaningless; it's the words Ari is posting and what he's saying about Reck which will start a 1v1 (which it does). I'm not sure how Ari doesn't realise this

In post 616, Aristophanes wrote:Maybe I should put that aside since it looks like beeboy is the Elim and I don't want to clutter the game at a point when the day is winding to a natural close. Maybe I even said all that in that very post! :O

I literally backed off because it's not going to happen today. I'm not shading you, I'm scumreading youm but I have enough sense not to drag us into a 1v1 right now.

= see, this is fair if Ari actually wants to do this, but it really does not line up with what Ari is saying in - he's explaining why he thinks Reck is scum and saying how he would eliminate him if it were up to him. that's not backing off

I feel good enough about this at this point to:

VOTE: Aristophanes

I also feel like my current mindset is making me read most of what Ari is posting beyond this point as scummy, because I'm subconsciously trying to find flaws/scum-motivation for his posts because I think he's scum. I will try and be as OBJECTIVE as possible, but it's tough

In post 1157, Aristophanes wrote:Hi, yeah that's fine. Vote me if you like. I am in training sessions all day today and tomorrow but I'm in a good mindset to get back into this today so I should have a few actual posts tonight. I was just really not in the mental place to be here the past few days.

= Strange that this in response to Reck, a slot he strongly scumreads

In post 1401, Aristophanes wrote:Reck's apparent murderboner for me is meh. I'll have to reread it but I guess I don't see that coming as hard from scum as it is here.

= but but but:
In post 378, Aristophanes wrote:Uh, this is kind of the hyperfocusing on one thing that I was worried about with Reck WRT Hectic. I think he's found a new target and honestly this is a pretty big red flag imo. FoS on you my friend.

Isn't this exactly what Ari was worried about scum!Reck doing this game? Tunnelling/hyperfocusing on one slot? Now that Reck's doing it to Ari, he's changed his mind?

+= I think the outrage here is reasonable when talking about Sirius. it's eventually the reason I wanted to go Sirius as well. i dislike the over the top tone

+ nuanced and believable take on Ydrasse's shitposting

1592 -
In post 1592, Aristophanes wrote:I thought I already responded to this but if not, here we go. Jingle did think that the meta argument for beeboy was good despite Datisi's linked example being not the greatest. He also told me they'd like to see RCE go as RCE did nothing towny with the slot.

= If Jingle thought the meta argument was good, why did he continue harping on about the slot being NAI/null

I'm at and my eyes are glossing over and it's hard to take in what I'm reading. Conclusion is that I feel good about Ari being scum. May finish the ISO-dive at a later point.

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Post Post #2295  (isolation #425)  » Fri Feb 19, 2021 4:05 pm

In post 2293, Creature wrote:That reasoning came up in my team's PT before I even voted Adorable, but I only brought it to this thread after.

Okay, thanks.

What is DGB's read on Deas now?

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Post Post #2298  (isolation #426)  » Fri Feb 19, 2021 4:50 pm

Hope you guys actually read my dive on Ari lol

Any thoughts would be nice

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Post Post #2305  (isolation #427)  » Fri Feb 19, 2021 8:00 pm

Ari, why hasn't Dann read this game at all? Can you ask him if you don't know?

Also, why do those post links suggest a bus/me-scum? I'm fairly sure if I don't make those posts, RCE lives a day

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Post Post #2309  (isolation #428)  » Fri Feb 19, 2021 8:08 pm

Also, Ari, what do you like about my dive?

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Post Post #2310  (isolation #429)  » Fri Feb 19, 2021 8:45 pm

Mm, nothing on this page particularly changes my mind

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Post Post #2311  (isolation #430)  » Fri Feb 19, 2021 8:46 pm

In post 2299, xofelf wrote:It's a really good dive on Ari, it really is. I'm in a weird spot where the idea of you misleading people is very loud in my head, but also like you make some real good points regularly that I can't entirely ignore either. I do think you pretty much hit the nail on the head about all of the really weird Ari behaviour so far though, and I really don't hate that as an option. And I like how many of the things were this game relevant, thank you <3.

VOTE: Ari

No meta allowed!

I hope that paranoia dissipates when we actually flip scum today, because that's the plan

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Post Post #2313  (isolation #431)  » Fri Feb 19, 2021 9:32 pm

On a brief skim of your ISO there, I don't see the similarities. I see you being calmer and not being weirdly angry/aggressive in certain posts. I'll have a closer look later, but can you make the similarities obvious for me?

And sure,
UNVOTE: Ari

We have time

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Post Post #2315  (isolation #432)  » Fri Feb 19, 2021 10:47 pm

Hi, Reck, did you read my DIVES and what did you think?

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Post Post #2317  (isolation #433)  » Fri Feb 19, 2021 11:10 pm

alright

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Post Post #2319  (isolation #434)  » Sat Feb 20, 2021 1:17 pm

In post 2302, Aristophanes wrote:It's really not that simple and its annoying that we're at this point.

I haven't gone into Hectic yet because like, after work yesterday I literally went straight to bed and today was work again. If I have a chance I'll do it but if I eat the hammer so be it.

I like Hectic's dive on me there which is fucking problematic for my reads this game and I honestly don't know who the deepwolf is but there is one because the game PoE of Ari/Creature/Reck might have 1 scum but I'm honestly doubting my Reck read and like, I just think we're wrong and scum are going to have a cakewalk to victory even with an obvtown pr and a mason hiding still.

Lile, did bulge make that as a fakeclaim knowing the setup? Prolly not but it's possible. I don't think that's the direction we want to go but its bugging me that its a possibility.

I'm VT ftr. Tho I assume y'all expected that from me atp.

I'm not scum.

Readslist off the top of my head is:
Town: Bulge, DV, Adorable
Towny: Ydrasse, Creature
Null: xof
Scummy:
Scum:
Goddamned conflicted: Reck, Hectic

Like it's not helpful but there you go.

These parts of this post rubbed me the wrong way because it feels presented, if you know what I mean. less so for the second statement, but especially the first. like is it natural for that to be how ari starts his first post in response to my massive case/dive on him? it feels like unnatural to me. it was on my mind and i wasn't sure whether i could articulate it, but this was my best attempt at it

Image

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Post Post #2320  (isolation #435)  » Sat Feb 20, 2021 1:19 pm

to expand on it maybe: it feels like the narrative you think you need to drive home as scum if you want to change everyone's minds, but it's not something that's likely to nautrally come to ari if he's town. if he's town, him being scum isn't "simple" from his pov - that narrative may be in other people's minds but it's not in his mind, so it feels more like he's putting himself in our perspective and then trying to tell us that it looks like it might be this easy but it isn't. is that scum-indicative? i think so

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Post Post #2321  (isolation #436)  » Sat Feb 20, 2021 1:20 pm

I do plan to scour over Reck later too, I'll get the motivation to do it at some point. I already did Creature and the results weren't too fruitful tbh

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Post Post #2322  (isolation #437)  » Sat Feb 20, 2021 1:31 pm

oh interesting, there were no typos in that post either. is this the LEGENDARY Ari makes less typos when he's scum carefully crafting his posts?!?t3647

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Post Post #2323  (isolation #438)  » Sat Feb 20, 2021 1:35 pm

Disregard that typo-tell; I checked and it's dumb

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Post Post #2324  (isolation #439)  » Sat Feb 20, 2021 1:53 pm

Subject: BooneyToonz XIV: A Little Boonie Told Me [END]

Aristophanes wrote:Heyyo!

Okay so I've finished the big project that was weighing me down here and am ready to dive back in here :)

Thank you so much to everyone for giving me that time! I really needed it <3

Looks like El-2 so I've got an uphill battle but we've got lots of time to make this right!

I guess I'll start off looking at the scum wagon from D1 and go from there. If you had any questions addressed to me there's a good chance I'll miss them so please reiterate or quote them. I doubt it'll be much since this is all votes for being vacant from what I can tell, but just in case.

hm

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Post Post #2325  (isolation #440)  » Sat Feb 20, 2021 2:36 pm

Ruminating about what Ari is keeps me up at night. I've extensively gone over all of his scumgames in the last 2 years, aaaand... I have a question:

Do you fake annoyance or anger as scum, Ari?

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Post Post #2329  (isolation #441)  » Sat Feb 20, 2021 3:19 pm

All around me are familiar faces, worn-out places, worn-out faces...

Look, I really want to win this game, okay. I should probably summarise my findings from the meta-dive:
-Ari doesn't do much solving as scum
-Ari solves as town
-Ari rarely gets annoyed or shows much frustration as scum
-Ari sometimes gets annoyed as town
-I've never seen Ari snap at something the way he did in , as either alignment
-The way he responded to Reck about wanting to elim/dayvig him is also out of character for him as both alignments

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Post Post #2330  (isolation #442)  » Sat Feb 20, 2021 3:20 pm

Oh, I wasn't supposed to post that until Ari answered my question, I remember now

SIGH

grumble grumble

Ydrasse, are you trying to throw the game here?

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Post Post #2332  (isolation #443)  » Sat Feb 20, 2021 3:32 pm

OPENWOLFING

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Post Post #2336  (isolation #444)  » Sat Feb 20, 2021 4:05 pm

: ah, okay

: do you think you'd make an exception for team mafia?

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Post Post #2337  (isolation #445)  » Sat Feb 20, 2021 4:06 pm

In post 2333, Adorable wrote:
In post 2298, Augustus Caesar wrote:Hope you guys actually read my dive on Ari lol

Any thoughts would be nice


I read your dive on Ari and it was really hard for me to follow along and understand on what you were saying. In a world if Ari is scum does he defend me on day 1? I find this really hard to believe scum would defend me on day 1.

I think it's very easy for scum to defend you day 1, either to earn your trust or because that's the stance they simply chose to take on you. I don't think it's something that should let you affect your reads too much either way

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Post Post #2348  (isolation #446)  » Sun Feb 21, 2021 12:37 pm

Image

Ah, let's get settled in to another day of Hectic mostly talking to Augustus Caesar. I'm looking forward to it.

Hey, Deas, Bulge:
In post 2010, DeasVail wrote:Okay I know that eliminating me at this point seems like a foregone conclusion for some but I will prove myself as town somehow in the coming days. I don’t know how that’ll be but I want to be a slot that is widely townread and an easy exclusion from poe. Not whatever this is.

In post 2221, The Bulge wrote:we're solving this game today people, we're in a fantastic position for it. keep an eye out for thread momentum crashers. I need to read read read this weekend but I'm gonna try to be here as often as I can promoting workflow but at this pace apathy will be our undoing almost certainly

The purpose of me bringing up these quotes isn't to shade, but to remind you of that earlier WIM and PROMISE you two believed in. We can solve this today, let's just put the work in.

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Post Post #2349  (isolation #447)  » Sun Feb 21, 2021 12:40 pm

In post 2338, Aristophanes wrote:
In post 2336, Augustus Caesar wrote:: ah, okay

: do you think you'd make an exception for team mafia?
Nah. I sound fake enough when I am genuine. If I were to fake it I'd be eliminated like, immediately. It's just not in the cards for me sadly/luckily

So I read this and am met with an immediate pang of paranoia, but then I think this is exactly what Ari is gonna tell me if scum here, so I really shouldn't let this change my mind at all. He is right though, I don't really see this from him as scum. However, I don't see some of the over the top anger/frustration in this game from you as town either, Ari. Does a game came to mind where you flipped out/got mad as town over small things?

Also, that team summary would be really nice when you have it.

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Post Post #2350  (isolation #448)  » Sun Feb 21, 2021 12:43 pm

You know, Deas, even though I actually scumread Ari now, I'm tempted to agree with you simply because I feel the same way about Creature that I did with Sirius; if he is town, we'll never be able to confidently townread him. I guess that's what happens when you don't ever bother to explain the underlying reasoning or thought processes behind your reads/takes. I realise it's why I'm so bad at reading Creature - because he NEVER actually explains the reasons behind what he believes in, and I'm all about reading into reasons and trying to determine whether they make sense and are genuine.

If I go Creature over Ari, it's because I'm confident enough in my GOLDEN FRIEND TOWNBLOC OF JUSTICE all being town, that is [Ydrasse, The Bulge, Puff, xofelf, Deas] of course. Meaning it's exactly one of Ari and Reck because I don't think Reck busses like that after a scum buddy goes down day 1, and I don't think Ari's reaction to Reck is SvS indicative - of these two I am heavily leaning Ari. But by PoE, the other scum is just Creature if I trust my townreads. Wait, so it comes down to trusting in my own ability to townread 5 people versus my ability in scumreading one person. hm. hm. HM.

I should look over Reck and Creature more...

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Post Post #2351  (isolation #449)  » Sun Feb 21, 2021 12:58 pm

Backrooms Mafia:

Ari is at odds with DkKoba for a large part of it. Dk slowly winds Ari down with a push, frustrating him over the course of the game until Ari FINALLY lashes out here and the following - posts - also this.

I found that extremely towny while playing that game, Ari. You were my top townread iirc. Here, I see you got from 0 to 100 (for your standards) reacting to Ydrasse in this post. There's no prior buildup or reason to be upset at Ydrasse, you were just that annoyed at her vote. From my experience with you, it takes a lot more for you to finally snap at a player. Dk was being really annoying and you reacted in a jovial manner for a long, long time until you finally go off on them.

I think you're faking it this game.

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Post Post #2352  (isolation #450)  » Sun Feb 21, 2021 1:09 pm

In post 2341, Ydrasse wrote:ariiiiiiii please god come post Soon AHHHHH

how do you feel about the bulge now? because uh, i'm looking back over that case and it feels even worse in retrospect, and , and i know i already asked you about these but i can't get over how you like... presented them?

it feels like you really had decided from the start that you were just going to scumread bulge, like. there's nothing in there at all that suggests i guess that you made a natural effort to read him accepting the fact that he might be town. and then like... is it really just the claim that made you think that he's that towny in your most recent reads list? even despite the fact that it might be a fakeclaim given scum know the roles of the setup?

like, i guess i just want to understand... is it really just that that made you roll over on it? this is a setup where mafia are inherently going to have (or should ...) better fakeclaims i think so like... was there no paranoia there at all? what went through your head when you saw what bulge claimed?

Yeah, that whole Bulge progression is another thing that's really weird about Ari. I don't see the scum-motivation behind hard tunnelling and casing a slot that's on L-1, but the reasons there are really bad faithy. I also agree that he's too accepting of the claim and The Bulge being town after how confbiased he seemed on him being scum earlier.

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Post Post #2353  (isolation #451)  » Sun Feb 21, 2021 1:24 pm

I do keep having paranoia about Ari not even trying angry AtE as scum before, but... this is Team Mafia and if you're gonna make an exception, it's for this game. Especially since he has Jangle on his team and I think Jongle might know Ari better than anyone else on this site (or was that Something_Smart?), so could easily be recommending using some of it to fool the poor meta-farmers like I.

(I think I've gone through all of his scumgames CTR-Fing 'fuck' and 'shit'. Do not question my methods.)

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Post Post #2354  (isolation #452)  » Sun Feb 21, 2021 1:48 pm

In post 332, Creature wrote:
In post 299, Augustus Caesar wrote:beeboy, i can already tell you're scum

VOTE: beeboy

Image

Never realized beeboy posted at all

Tempted to believe you here

Hmm, why was Creature tempted to believe me? I only thought that because I'm aware of beeboy's scummeta. I don't think Creature is.

In post 246, beeboy wrote:Oh no i didn't realize the game started.
Hello friends.

After clash tonight I'll read up. <3

This post isn't really incriminating without knowing his meta.

In post 397, Creature wrote:beeboy is probably someone I wouldn't bother with rn. So the only significant viable scumread I have is Reckoner. Though, Ydrasse and Bulge also should be looked at.

Says we shouldn't bother with beeboy here.

In post 400, Creature wrote:Sirius9121 (0)
Augautus Caesar (0)
Aristophanes (0)
Datisi (0)

Summer Nights (0)
Creature (0)
xofelf (0)
DeasVail (0)
The Bulge (0)
Adorable (0)
petapan (0)

xRECKONERx (0)
beeboy (0)

Doesn't have beeboy coloured in in this readslist.

In post 403, Creature wrote:If I go fullgut, the scumteam should be three between Summer Nights, The Bulge, xRECKONERx and beeboy.

beeboy is now in his scumpool? beeboy hasn't posted since his comments about nothing bothering with him or his readlist. how can he have a gut feeling beeboy is scum based on nothing?

: Oh, beeboy is now coloured in red. This is still before beeboy's second post though which Creature comments on here:
In post 508, Creature wrote:
In post 466, beeboy wrote:Is anyone here is there something I should know before I read back?

Feels like somethijg frozenscum!me would say


In post 591, Creature wrote:I'll just be pretty annoyed if beeboy happens to be town and we wasted an entire dayphase

feels like something scum are less likely to say about their buddy tbh

In post 749, Creature wrote:
In post 734, DeasVail wrote:VOTE: RCEnigma

I’m fine if people want to wait and see more, but I think I’ve seen enough to be comfortable with an elimination here

Me too, but I don't want to end up being pressured all day tomorrow and feel unable to scumhunt due to that wagon

In post 753, Creature wrote:
In post 752, DeasVail wrote:
In post 749, Creature wrote:
In post 734, DeasVail wrote:VOTE: RCEnigma

I’m fine if people want to wait and see more, but I think I’ve seen enough to be comfortable with an elimination here

Me too, but I don't want to end up being pressured all day tomorrow and feel unable to scumhunt due to that wagon

Why are you expecting a wagon on you? I don't think there are many, if any, votes on you now.

I mean, RCE probably drops dead today, but tomorrow I may be at risk.

Creature only thinks he's at risk if RCE flips scum, right? that's what he's saying here?

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Post Post #2355  (isolation #453)  » Sun Feb 21, 2021 1:49 pm

oops, meant to hit preview

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Post Post #2356  (isolation #454)  » Sun Feb 21, 2021 1:56 pm

In post 770, Creature wrote:Should we ever do Aristophanes?

This post is so weird considering he's never expressed interest or a scumread on Ari outside of this, he actually townreads him earlier

I was looking through VCs and he never votes for Ari either, he's always on the counterwagon whatever it is

In post 859, Creature wrote:
In post 844, xRECKONERx wrote:Nobody is interested in my Ari push

I won't oppose anymore. If you vote there I'll consider joining just to see what happens.

hum de dum

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Post Post #2357  (isolation #455)  » Sun Feb 21, 2021 2:00 pm

lol what, Reck hasn't been scum in 4 years

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Post Post #2364  (isolation #456)  » Sun Feb 21, 2021 4:25 pm

In post 2363, Hectic wrote:I have a few reasons, but my strongest reason to think xofelf isn't scum is just the way they interacted with RCE. Firstly, the long interaction they had, secondly, RCE choosing xofelf as one of his first slots to ISO-dive, thirdly, this post - what scum partner says this:

RCE's entrance is actually really decent one. It sucks that he's replacing into a slot that is just so empty, and a game that is so lethargic. But also, guys, we have 3 days and there is a single wagon, the fuck are we doing? We all need to step it up.


-when this, is the VC:

In post 824, Isis wrote:
Votecount 1.9
  • Sirius9121 (0) -
  • Augustus Caesar (1) - Creature
  • Aristophanes (0) -
  • Datisi (0) -
  • Summer Nights (0) -
  • Creature (0) -
  • xofelf (0) -
  • DeasVail (0) -
  • The Bulge (2) - Datisi, petapan
  • Adorable (0) -
  • petapan (1)- The Bulge
  • xRECKONERx (0)
  • RCEnigma(5) - Augustus Caesar, Summer Nights, Adorable, xRECKONERx, DeasVail,
Not Voting (4) : xofelf, Sirius9121, RCEnigma, Aristophanes
Deadline: (expired on 2021-01-29 21:00:00)
With thirteen alive, it takes seven votes to eliminate and seven votes to skip the day's elimination.


xofelf isn't trying to push any counterwagons - they're not even voting themselves. The number one priority on scum's mind at the time of this VC is gonna be on how they'll look in the event RCE flips scum (which is looking very likely at this point). If scum!xofelf defends RCE, there needs to be a damn good reason for it, some way to get RCE out of this perhaps, maybe change people's minds, or push an aletertive wagon. xofelf does not try and change people's minds with reasoning, neither do they try and push an alterative. This just reads like ignorant town to me.

just give me the 2 week ban now, Isis

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Post Post #2365  (isolation #457)  » Sun Feb 21, 2021 4:28 pm

In post 2362, DeasVail wrote:This post is completely fair. And I will do my best to do a big dive tonight. The fact that I haven't done it yet is totally life getting in the way and NAI.

It would take A LOT for me to read xofelf as scum here. I had a moment of reconsideration there when I voted them but that reconsideration has pointed me strongly to xofelf being town.

And Hectic, I was having a similar thought last night that if we trust in our collective townreads then this game is solved. Of course, there is always going to be paranoia there, but I would be pretty confident in all of xofelf, bulge, adorable being town. And I'm happy to consider Ydrasse town as well while you strongly townread her.

Yeah, that's my current thinking. It depends in the manner Ari comes back with his team's reads

Life takes no1 priority ofc, but I'm looking forward to your return!

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Post Post #2370  (isolation #458)  » Sun Feb 21, 2021 5:46 pm

The town points were minor compared to the scummy stuff I found. I'll summarise why I think he's scum for you, Reck:

-Felt like he was faking analysis, for example, why he was talking about Datisi/peta having partnery stuff based on 4th vote rvs memes
-His reaction to Ydrasse when she voted him felt over the top and out of character for him
-The times he speaks about the beeboy slot sounds partnery <- this is the biggest reason by far
-Him wanting to back out of a 1v1 with you apparently, but that clearly not being his true intention in that post

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Post Post #2371  (isolation #459)  » Sun Feb 21, 2021 5:48 pm

Oh, and:

-Bad faith scumcase on The Bulge

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Post Post #2372  (isolation #460)  » Sun Feb 21, 2021 5:48 pm

In post 2369, xRECKONERx wrote:I think your read on Ari, to me, FEELS a lot more even-keeled so I was kinda surprised to see you vote him midway through? It felt more neutral in reading but maybe it's because I get angry at any mention of him being town lol

Not at all lol
Pretty sure like 80% of my comments were on stuff I found scummy

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Post Post #2401  (isolation #461)  » Mon Feb 22, 2021 9:03 am

VOTE: Creature

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Post Post #2402  (isolation #462)  » Mon Feb 22, 2021 9:05 am

Thoughts later, but for now, I think you should be claiming, Creature. You've been a universal nullread/scumread for a while now.

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Post Post #2403  (isolation #463)  » Mon Feb 22, 2021 10:42 am

In post 2392, xofelf wrote:I feel a lot better about Ydrasse and Hectic. Like, it'll mean very little to most people, but just, having an idea of what it looks like when people are pressured or lying and just their general sort of vibe kinda helps me a lot and is something I look at and is a bit universal between LSGs and mafia.

It messes with your head, man. The concept is fun, but the idea that people only want to get to know you and talk to you because they're buddying you for the sake of a game is a weird thought. That'll probably be my last one even if it I do enjoy it, just too stressful for me.

What kind of vibes did you get from us there btw?

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Post Post #2404  (isolation #464)  » Mon Feb 22, 2021 10:49 am

In post 2374, Aristophanes wrote:Something about being in Masters in TFT as well, whatever that means, which was what he was working on instead of reading here lol

Damnflor

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Post Post #2407  (isolation #465)  » Mon Feb 22, 2021 12:49 pm

In post 2002, Creature wrote:Also Adorable's vote on RCE D1 looks the most likely a bus considering it was done after the selfvote and never unvoted.

Ah yikes, is this a townslip

@Isis: There's an error in your VC in . beeboy's shown as self-voting when he never did.

Creature is assuming beeboy's self-voting rather than realising there's an error in the VC... I think scum would be more conscious of what their buddy is doing. Then again, beeboy only had two posts at the time. Creature, were you not ISOing him and seeing his content given he was the majority wagon for most of the day? You didn't notice the lack of a self-vote, but let it influence your reads? I mean that in this post, you're clearly looking back over votes, like Puff's to make sense of the wagon/who was bussing, but didn't notice beeboy never voted for anyone in the two posts he made... hm

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Post Post #2408  (isolation #466)  » Mon Feb 22, 2021 12:50 pm

Creature, I want you to explain when you thought beeboy self-voted and how that's been affecting your reads this game.

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Post Post #2409  (isolation #467)  » Mon Feb 22, 2021 12:52 pm

In post 2374, Aristophanes wrote:Jingle:
Townreads - Bulge, DV, Reck, xof
Townleans - Ydrasse
Scumreads - Creature
No read on Adorable as they are incomprehensible :P

Why aren't I in this Jingle readslist, Ari?

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Post Post #2410  (isolation #468)  » Mon Feb 22, 2021 1:02 pm

In post 2374, Aristophanes wrote:Starting off, Jingle had some setup spec for me. Basically it boils down to the scum knowing the setup being op at neutering town, especially the masons, and lets them craft exactly the right fakeclaim for any situation and have it ready from even pregame. Beeboy-slot having that role let him do nothing since his job was complete. It probably also means a mostly vanilla scumteam otherwise, which flips and Isis mod-meta support. It also means setup spec is probably useless and the mechanic might be unbalanced but who is to say.

Treating Bulge as conftown and as just a Doc which I guess makes sense. Then there's some setup spec I can present but meh and a note that we should massclaim the day prior to XLo because of scum knowing the setup and being prepared for it.

DV is locktown for Jingle and he notes that scum probably bussed beeboy-slot because of the aforementioned fulfillment of their duty. I'll mention that the theory that scum bussed beeboy should probably clear me as well as DV or at least be a hard town point but I mean, of course Jingle will say that so take it as you will.

= This baffles me. Like sure, beeboy's slot had already given scum the info they needed from being Informed, but a scum member going down means scum need 2 extra mislaunches to win. It's as bad as a regular mafia goon going down. Fulfilling your duty as scum is sticking around and achieving parity with your team, not just dying simply because you're informed lol

= Further from this point, this also confuses me. Deas did not push on beeboy much explicitly, but he really did push on RCE and scumcased him up until his claim. How closely has Jingle been reading? I also think it's a little extreme to say Deas would be "locktown" simply because he didn't bus beeboy - there's other slots too who were reluctant to vote him.

Can you get Jingle to expand on what he means here?

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Post Post #2411  (isolation #469)  » Mon Feb 22, 2021 1:04 pm

I like Dann's comments for the most part

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Post Post #2412  (isolation #470)  » Mon Feb 22, 2021 1:43 pm

In post 2395, DeasVail wrote:
In post 747, Creature wrote:DGB just gave me the green light on lynching RCE

In post 749, Creature wrote:
In post 734, DeasVail wrote:VOTE: RCEnigma

I’m fine if people want to wait and see more, but I think I’ve seen enough to be comfortable with an elimination here

Me too, but I don't want to end up being pressured all day tomorrow and feel unable to scumhunt due to that wagon

In reading through Creature these posts (made after I say RCE is scum and vote him) feel significant. Particularly because despite saying this, Creature then proceeds to suggest an Ari wagon and start attacking me because of my suspicion on RCE.

It's the sort of thing that I find to be strange from both scum and town and so it could be worth talking about.

I still can't convince myself away from Creature today (and am especially unmotivated re: wagoning Ari) but I have enough uncertainty to be keen to discuss things.

I'd feel so much better about Creature being scum if he actually voted RCE at any point, it's so weird he said he was down to kill him but never voted. I'd think scum would just bus regularly there and get on the wagon.

Oh wait, I'm dumb lol:

In post 941, Creature wrote:VOTE: RCEnigma

atp this slot is a liability

In post 960, Creature wrote:
In post 959, petapan wrote:
In post 932, Creature wrote:tbh I kinda had Summer Nights as scum, but I'm kinda iffy considering she is the counterwagon to a very scummy claim.

the 'counterwagon' is being pushed by two of the peole who were voting RCE, though, so what do you make of that?

This feels a lot "scum decided to give their partner one extra day"

In post 965, Creature wrote:
In post 962, xRECKONERx wrote:but...n1 vig seems like a VERY wild claim to fake bc it's very easily disproven and if there aren't two kills tomorrow then byebye RCE?

Scum doesn't need to claim something they can fake, just something that makes them live at least one more night. Scum has little to lose claiming something that will get them caught the next day but a lot to lose getting lynched the day before and townclearing a bunch of players the next day.

In post 970, Creature wrote:
In post 968, xRECKONERx wrote:but my question is why not just... claim something that won't get caught the next day then?

Claiming something iffy won't help you not get lynched. Sometimes it is a lot better to just claim something that will get you caught the next day but guarantee surviving today than risk getting lynched today anyway.

In post 971, Creature wrote:It's also not even that much provable because RCE can easily claim to be roleblocked or something and then we're back to day 1 with likely two less town players.

In post 978, Creature wrote:
In post 977, petapan wrote:fwiw the hivemind leans on the claim being fake

The hivemind being exactly only Hectic, Datisi (previously) and me

In post 979, Creature wrote:and there are now four votes on the counterwagon (Summer Nights)

In post 1019, Creature wrote:
In post 995, petapan wrote:i do think this moment has been more useful than 90% of the day in terms of drawing out AI content

staypositivefriend has weighed in on summer at my request and thinks she's town. i respect her a lot, i'm not a very analytical thinker and i like to lean on players who are, so i'm switching back

VOTE: RCEnigma

Yeah man, so far I have strongly leaned town on Summer and scum on RCEnigma based on the latest events. Very likely RCE is just caught here.


Huh, this sequence of posts actually makes me feel better about Creature being scum. I feel like there has to be at least 1 scum buddy bussing on the RCE wagon, and these posts feel weirdly confident and certain for Creature's play this game

In post 1060, Isis wrote:RCEnigma (He/Him)(7) Augustus Caesar, Summer Nights, Adorable, Creature, petapan, xRECKONERx, xofelf

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Post Post #2413  (isolation #471)  » Mon Feb 22, 2021 2:00 pm

Puff,

In post 2165, Adorable wrote:Creature had some weird interactions around beeboy. I also had a feeling scum said in the thread they town read petapan on day 1 and Creature was one of the players who town read petapan on day 1.

VOTE: Creature

Can you point out and explain some of the other interactions you found weird that Creature had with beeboy/RCE?

Also, has your team been reading the game? Any updates?

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Post Post #2416  (isolation #472)  » Mon Feb 22, 2021 3:17 pm

Thank you!

Did you write up straight after sending ?

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Post Post #2418  (isolation #473)  » Mon Feb 22, 2021 3:25 pm

Cool, that makes a lot more sense

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Post Post #2427  (isolation #474)  » Mon Feb 22, 2021 10:34 pm

This is the first day for quite a while Creature hasn't posted, and it happens to be the day I asked him to claim

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Post Post #2433  (isolation #475)  » Tue Feb 23, 2021 9:27 am

In post 2431, xRECKONERx wrote:
In post 2424, Ydrasse wrote:
In post 2423, xRECKONERx wrote:
In post 2421, DeasVail wrote:Who else do you think is scum?

I am not sure. I had my scum pool as Ari/Hectic/Creature, and it's probably still there. Hectic and I kinda briefly engaged over my scumread of him and then just left it. I just feel and have felt so fucking strongly about Ari for so much of this game that if we go somewhere else and Ari squeaks by again I'm going to lose my mind.


have any of hectic's recent posts had an impact on your read on him? the other two in the pool line up with what i think but i feel like he sticks out like a sore thumb

you probably think i'm pocketed by him but ya know :dead:

no if anything I think you're pocketing Hectic not the other way around

I don't buy your AtE bullshit flirty shit like Hectic does but maybe it's because I'm gay and immune to your horseshit

Huh, why am I in your scumpool and not Ydrasse if you think the pocket is happening the other way around?

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Post Post #2434  (isolation #476)  » Tue Feb 23, 2021 9:35 am

Ari, your self-sacrificial nature right now is giving me lots of good feelings, and think I'm actually feeling better about Creature flipping scum. Coming around on RCE looks like a bus + this absence when asked to claim is promising. Would love to hear those team responses when you have time to paraphrase btw!

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Post Post #2436  (isolation #477)  » Tue Feb 23, 2021 2:15 pm

Creaaaature

I saw you come online earlier today... you must feel pretty frozen and caught. No one's mentioned this yet but I do feel for you this game, you were pretty much handicapped from the start. beeboy being scum and then doing nothing and getting force replaced (when that's his scummeta) is really annoying tbh. I'd be infuriated if I was scum.

So uh, sorry

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Post Post #2438  (isolation #478)  » Tue Feb 23, 2021 2:32 pm

Thoughts on Creature, Reck?

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Post Post #2444  (isolation #479)  » Tue Feb 23, 2021 3:15 pm

Can you claim?

Puff is definitely not consensus PoE

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Post Post #2449  (isolation #480)  » Tue Feb 23, 2021 3:23 pm

I don't think so... if you're scum, massclaiming is a terrible idea. You should claim first and then argue for why massclaiming is optimal

Pedit: Scum currently don't know the mason in the rest though

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Post Post #2461  (isolation #481)  » Tue Feb 23, 2021 4:01 pm

In post 2458, Creature wrote:The only two downsides of massclaim I can tell is:

Existence of a roleblocker (fairly unlikely considering Bulge got a result last night)
Existence of another PR (though if there is another PR scum has double the chance to hit PR tonight)

There's only 2 scum in the game from night 1 onwards. One of them would've made the N1 kill, and the other the N2 kill. The Bulge's check was useless last night.

If there's a x-shot strongman or roleblocker in scum's hands, a massclaim is a bad idea. Also, we don't know what the remaining roles are and whether there's another investigative and so on

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Post Post #2463  (isolation #482)  » Tue Feb 23, 2021 4:03 pm

Why are you so sure I'm town, Creature? I've only been pushing people you townread and townreading people you think are scum

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Post Post #2464  (isolation #483)  » Tue Feb 23, 2021 4:05 pm

(other than Reck)

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Post Post #2471  (isolation #484)  » Tue Feb 23, 2021 4:11 pm

In post 2408, Augustus Caesar wrote:Creature, I want you to explain when you thought beeboy self-voted and how that's been affecting your reads this game.

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Post Post #2478  (isolation #485)  » Tue Feb 23, 2021 4:16 pm

In post 2476, Hectic wrote:You keep saying there's no downside to massclaim, but what's the upside? Scum has perfect setup knowledge anyway, we're unlikely to catch them via bad claims

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Post Post #2484  (isolation #486)  » Tue Feb 23, 2021 4:58 pm

In post 2482, Creature wrote:Yeah, DGB had plenty of VCs posted.

What do you mean?

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Post Post #2485  (isolation #487)  » Tue Feb 23, 2021 4:59 pm

Have your other teammates had any other opinions?

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Post Post #2486  (isolation #488)  » Tue Feb 23, 2021 5:00 pm



Creature
Ari
Ari
Creature
Creature
Creature
Ari
Creature
Ari
Ari
Creature
Creature
Ari
Creature

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Post Post #2490  (isolation #489)  » Tue Feb 23, 2021 5:08 pm

How can you even gather anything from that VC alone though without knowing the context? I'd think DGB or you would've gone to ISO beeboy if you were trying to solve him, and would've seen the lack of a self-vote. And how is Puff's vote suspicious when you don't know the purpose of the self-vote, like whether it was a concede/joke/AtE, and so on.

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Post Post #2493  (isolation #490)  » Tue Feb 23, 2021 5:11 pm

Why do you townread Ari?

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Post Post #2495  (isolation #491)  » Tue Feb 23, 2021 6:21 pm

Meh, I need a flip, this is driving me insane and I've run out of steam to do more rereading/efforting today. I just want to hear Ari's team responses, and The Bulge and xofelf should chip in when they can, and then lets flip this Creature. I'm taking a break from this game until I feel less... stressed out about it, which might be a day or a few days. I'll give closing thoughts in case you guys kill Creature while I'm gone (which I would be completely fine with).

-------------------------------------------

Reads:

Puff/Deas
-
The Bulge/Ydrasse
Xofelf
-
Reck
Ari
Creature

-------------------------------------------

I’ve ISOed everyone in my townpool and here's my thoughts:

Firstly, we have Deas and Puff. Both of these slots give me warm, fuzzy feelings.

Puff is pure and genuine and everything about this slot lacks any scum agenda, she’s just posting what she thinks without care for how it’ll look or be perceived. Looks better if Creature flips scum.

Regarding Deas, I’m dumb for even scumcasing him based on a gutread earlier when I almost agree with every single thing he says, or at least sympathise with it. He’s had consistently good takes this entire game. Looks better if Creature flips scum.

Then we have The Bulge and Ydrasse. Previously thought they were both very confident town, but have grown less confident over time.

The Bulge was confident town earlier based on the claim + annoyance following it, and at the start of today. Dropping off completely today after promising to solve makes me less confident though. Shrug on how he looks if Creature flips scum.

Ydrasse was confident town for her earlier rage/emotion at Datisi and all of my logic around that. However, Dann makes some points, and her solving is not fakeable this game. Looks worse if Creature flips scum.

Finally, we have Xofelf. They’re probably town for sounding genuine and having takes that sound like they believe in them. The interactions with RCE were not partner-indicative. They don’t post often so the sample size is lower. Shrug on how they look if Creature flips scum.

-------------------------------------------

Conclusion:

If Creature flips scum –
I think Reck is the other scum. Ari is less likely scum just based on how it’d be terrible play for them to be playing it the way they are right now. Ari acting self-sacrificial and not pushing any wagons, while Creature refuses to bus Ari, while Ari is reluctant to bus Creature. It’s just… horribly game losing if they’re both scum.
If it’s not Reck, then someone has infiltrated my pentagon of friends, and I will find you and hunt you down unfriend you whoever you are.

If Creature flips town –
then monstro help me. It’s still one of Ari/Reck (probably Ari) and someone in the pentagon. I’ll just enter my final form and re-evaluate EVERYONE if I'm still alive though and we’ll be fine…

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Post Post #2501  (isolation #492)  » Tue Feb 23, 2021 11:18 pm

Happy Birthday, Deas!

I haven't had the pleasure of playing with you before but I want you to know that I love your playstyle and really appreciate your presence in this game. You're a super chill and rational guy, and I even thought you were scummy for the lack of anger you showed when I was pushing you, but it just turns out you're a nice dude. I'd love to play with you again in future games after this one.

Have a good one!

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Post Post #2503  (isolation #493)  » Tue Feb 23, 2021 11:20 pm

Just don't touch Puff or Deas is all I ask to be sheeped on. Figure the others out somehow.

Anyway, vacation resumes.

pedit: maybe I'll bring that back lol

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Post Post #2505  (isolation #494)  » Tue Feb 23, 2021 11:23 pm

Me? I played last years and came in gimmick posting and got scumread for it lol. And then I started being stilted and awkward and was a wagon for most the day(as town). Things worked out though and we launched scum day 1 and day 2, and the final one day 6. I survived. I mostly had fun other than day 1.

I'm very happy to in this one and I've had loads of fun, it's just been a little stressful too recently knowing I'm the one kinda directing things and a lot of blame will be on me if I get this wrong. I do feel good about Creature but the what ifs are stressing me out

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Post Post #2533  (isolation #495)  » Wed Feb 24, 2021 6:41 pm

Wow, Isis. Thought you could sneak that VC past me without expecting a diary of my progress in MonsterTrain, huh? Well, THINK AGAIN

Spoiler: Beware - Powersolving inside
Image
easiest game of my life (beat the tutorial)


Image
I'm already thinking more minion cards are better than pure damage cards. Also, this guy reminds me of good old blood imp


Image
Slay the Spire has taught me that free cards are usually great


Image
Can't I just put this guy at the top floor and let him STACK


Image
The shopkeeps in these rogue-likes only get weirder and weirder lol


Image
We're going all in on the unkillable steelworker


Image
You'll never stop working that steel, worker


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This poor dark souls guy doesn't stand a chance. oh, I guess I should've put the tanky guy at the front huh (realised after the fight)


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This train is steamrolling all the way to Hell (or Heaven, can't remember where I'm going)


Spoiler: Forbidden Game Things during my vacation
@Deas: Happy to hear that! And I have a lot self-doubt as well, but I feel better about Creature flipping scum than I have anyone else during this day phase, so let's PULL THE TRIGGER


Spoiler: To Creature
I like your current avatar more than all of the others you used to have of that dragonite. This one's more spooky and cool


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Augustus Caesar
Goon
 
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Joined: July 29, 2020
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Post Post #2566  (isolation #496)  » Thu Feb 25, 2021 10:42 pm

@Ydrasse: please hammer Creature who is likely flipping scum before there's a chance for the day to get derailed. Thank you!

But seriously, Creature is defeated scum. If you look at his posts for the past week or so, he comes in everyday; regurgitates the same exact thoughts over and over again (xofelf is demotivated, Reck/Deas are scum) and then leaves. There's no new thoughts popping up in his brain, and no new info or progression happening in his head. His reads are stuck in one place because they're fake and there's no underlying thought process behind them that he's willing to explain.

He also asked for a massclaim without any good reason to believe that's optimal for town. His best reason was "we can get some obvtown PRs even if the scumteam all claim vanilla" - what does this even mean? We'd get the same claims if we claimed tomorrow or the day after, and scum have perfect setup knowledge so we can't catch off fake claims. Creature's trying to get some claims out as he goes down.

HAMMER TIME... please

Pedit: this is a smart opinon

Augustus Caesar
Goon
 
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Joined: July 29, 2020
Pronoun: He

Post Post #2569  (isolation #497)  » Thu Feb 25, 2021 10:47 pm

You would be blessing this thread, Ari. It would be truly divine. The heavens would sing and we would all ascend to a greater plane

Whoever does the hammer gets 20 soul hearts

Augustus Caesar
Goon
 
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Joined: July 29, 2020
Pronoun: He

Post Post #2570  (isolation #498)  » Thu Feb 25, 2021 10:47 pm

In post 2568, Ydrasse wrote:i said i was gonna reread but im tired and thats a lie

yall good if i hammer?

do it do it do it

Augustus Caesar
Goon
 
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Joined: July 29, 2020
Pronoun: He

Post Post #2574  (isolation #499)  » Thu Feb 25, 2021 10:48 pm

In post 2572, Aristophanes wrote:Aww man I wanted those soul hearts!

I'll give you eternal hearts instead <3

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