TM 2021: A normal roguelike

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Post Post #55 (isolation #0) » Fri Jan 15, 2021 8:48 pm

Post by DeasVail »

In post 53, Adorable wrote:Hi

VOTE: Augustus Caesar
Is this based on anything in particular?
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Post Post #57 (isolation #1) » Fri Jan 15, 2021 9:33 pm

Post by DeasVail »

Why did you make the vote then? Have you read Augustus’ posts?
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Post Post #59 (isolation #2) » Fri Jan 15, 2021 9:54 pm

Post by DeasVail »

So it was based on something then?
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Post Post #171 (isolation #3) » Sat Jan 16, 2021 1:58 pm

Post by DeasVail »

I like Datisi townreading me in . Datisi-scum would be under the impression that I'm an achievable mislynch and I could see scum being more tempted to twist it as scum tryharding off the bat (which is an easy interpretation to make). No one else had commented on my entrance and so the freshness of the take adds weight here.

--
In post 90, Augustus Caesar wrote:i like puff so far
her being difficult and arguing about this stuff is town-indicative
our records show she's floaty and less antagonistic as scum
not a fan of the limelight

Image
Has she actually been antagonistic?
In post 91, Augustus Caesar wrote:puff puff puff
how much have you spoken to your team about reads or anything?

Image
Strange that you would be asking this question of someone who has only just begun engaging with the game in a meaningful way.

--
In post 103, Aristophanes wrote:I found then NAI thus far tbh

Ninja'd
I mean Adorable.

I do agree Reck is off tho
Adorable made a vote which looked like RVS. When I asked about it, Adorable indicated that it was based on nothing. When I applied some silly pressure because I was feeling bored, Adorable said that in fact it was based on something. The "reason" for the vote changed after Adorable was pressured on it. Dismissing it merely as NAI without further reason is not enough for me. Why is it NAI?
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Post Post #172 (isolation #4) » Sat Jan 16, 2021 2:00 pm

Post by DeasVail »

In post 108, xofelf wrote:Gotta say the multiposting thing is going to kill me. It just feels like noise for the sake of noise and my eyes kinda glaze over as I read it. I also can't keep track of which is which, and who they're supposed to be underneath the alt, which is making that slot so much harder to read.(I also don't remember if it was just one of the public alts hyperposting or both, so that's a bad sign)
I am liking DV so far. The questions do feel like they're coming from a genuine place. I guess the term is solving? But it just feels like good reaction poking and I'm here for it.
Ari my love, why do you feel funny to me? There's this tone underneath your posts that don't quite feel genuine and more performative. Idk if it's AI, I just know unlike usual, reading your posts made my nose wrinkle up.
That's what I got for now.
In post 109, xRECKONERx wrote:
In post 108, xofelf wrote:Gotta say the multiposting thing is going to kill me. It just feels like noise for the sake of noise and my eyes kinda glaze over as I read it. I also can't keep track of which is which, and who they're supposed to be underneath the alt, which is making that slot so much harder to read.(I also don't remember if it was just one of the public alts hyperposting or both, so that's a bad sign)
I am liking DV so far. The questions do feel like they're coming from a genuine place. I guess the term is solving? But it just feels like good reaction poking and I'm here for it.
Ari my love, why do you feel funny to me? There's this tone underneath your posts that don't quite feel genuine and more performative. Idk if it's AI, I just know unlike usual, reading your posts made my nose wrinkle up.
That's what I got for now.
this 100%

the stupid fucking open alts rule is very bad and dumb and creates more legwork for people to open a tab and have to crossreference who is saying what bc of the alts, the spamposting is ridiculous (out of the first ~100 posts nearly HALF of them are solely from ari + hectic), and the forced shtick of posting in character with images at the end of every post or whatever the hell hectic is doing is sapping my will to live

but i signed up to play team mafia, so i will play team mafia. i am just not going to engage with hectic's shtick for my own sanity. if my team wants to read it they can and fill me in. actually ill ask them to do that right now.

xof's post 100% lines up with my headspace atm so i'm feeling big town energy there
Xof-town. Reck less town but still leaning town.
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Post Post #175 (isolation #5) » Sat Jan 16, 2021 2:03 pm

Post by DeasVail »

In post 119, Adorable wrote:I did not like the way how you voted me saying I look fake.
I can confirm that you looked fake though (regardless of your alignment) so I don't think disliking this from Datisi is valid.
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Post Post #177 (isolation #6) » Sat Jan 16, 2021 2:04 pm

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In post 122, Adorable wrote:I didn't like the way how you just straight up voted me saying I dipped and without even engaging with me. I went to bed after I responded to DV and don't expect me to respond right away because I'm not active.
Is a vote not a form of engagement?

You voted Augustus for maybe a reason, maybe no reason. What's so harmful about a vote?
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Post Post #180 (isolation #7) » Sat Jan 16, 2021 2:06 pm

Post by DeasVail »

In post 128, Adorable wrote:This is what midwaybear said when I asked what does he think of the players after I made #85.

-He said Creature's entrance seems townie and his concern over being distracted over studies is slightly townie and doesn't care much as scum. For me Creature is hard to read and I wasn't able to see how that was townie.
-He wasn't sure why Ari asked Creature who scum is. He is overall a bit too jokey.
-Said Hectic/Ydrasse back and forth seems mostly NAI and said he believed they did this in Pooky/FL.
-Said xofelf seems to be taking Reck's RVS vote a bit serious
- Said Hectic's read on Ari in post 50 he doesn't agree with. It's just a wagon and there's nothing really to be self conscious of that early.
- Said Hectic including NAI reads is interesting and didn't know what to think of it yet.
- Said Datisi townread on DV is also not the best.
- Said Datisi voting me is somewhat understandable
-Said Hectic seems townie, but it is a weak read for him.
-Said Datisi's questions on Ari mostly reflects his thoughts and thought that was good except he put a question mark in the end and it looked like he wasn't sure.
-Said Bulge asking Sirius about personal life seemed abit intrusive and he put lol in the end.

These thoughts are through #9-#87
I would have thought that one of the most striking things from a reads perspective would have been my push of you, yet midwaybear has no opinion on it.

This feels like panic asking a team-mate to help fake reads to look town.
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Post Post #189 (isolation #8) » Sat Jan 16, 2021 2:16 pm

Post by DeasVail »

That's it from me for a few hours.

Players of most interest to me currently are: Adorable, Aristophanes and to a lesser extent Augustus however Augustus is not as high on my scumread radar right now.

If I haven't mentioned someone in my posts it is because they did not make much impression on me.
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Post Post #210 (isolation #9) » Sat Jan 16, 2021 4:47 pm

Post by DeasVail »

In post 200, Adorable wrote:
In post 180, DeasVail wrote:
In post 128, Adorable wrote:This is what midwaybear said when I asked what does he think of the players after I made #85.

-He said Creature's entrance seems townie and his concern over being distracted over studies is slightly townie and doesn't care much as scum. For me Creature is hard to read and I wasn't able to see how that was townie.
-He wasn't sure why Ari asked Creature who scum is. He is overall a bit too jokey.
-Said Hectic/Ydrasse back and forth seems mostly NAI and said he believed they did this in Pooky/FL.
-Said xofelf seems to be taking Reck's RVS vote a bit serious
- Said Hectic's read on Ari in post 50 he doesn't agree with. It's just a wagon and there's nothing really to be self conscious of that early.
- Said Hectic including NAI reads is interesting and didn't know what to think of it yet.
- Said Datisi townread on DV is also not the best.
- Said Datisi voting me is somewhat understandable
-Said Hectic seems townie, but it is a weak read for him.
-Said Datisi's questions on Ari mostly reflects his thoughts and thought that was good except he put a question mark in the end and it looked like he wasn't sure.
-Said Bulge asking Sirius about personal life seemed abit intrusive and he put lol in the end.

These thoughts are through #9-#87
I would have thought that one of the most striking things from a reads perspective would have been my push of you, yet midwaybear has no opinion on it.

This feels like panic asking a team-mate to help fake reads to look town.
What are you talking about? Hectic asked me how much have I spoken to my team about reads and I said that I asked my team before Hectic even asked me about reads. What you're saying makes no sense here because how am I scum panicking when I have already asked my team long ago about on what did they think of the players.
This does not answer my issue and also makes no sense.

Scum panicking would make sense at the time of post 85
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Post Post #213 (isolation #10) » Sat Jan 16, 2021 5:14 pm

Post by DeasVail »

Thanks for that Adorable

How did it take so long to just say that given the amount of air time the whole thing has gotten in the thread?
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Post Post #214 (isolation #11) » Sat Jan 16, 2021 5:15 pm

Post by DeasVail »

Part of why this has become a huge deal is because despite lots of people talking about it, you continued to post yet made no attempt to resolve the misunderstanding until now.

Why would it take so long if you have nothing to hide?
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Post Post #221 (isolation #12) » Sat Jan 16, 2021 7:49 pm

Post by DeasVail »

Yeah probably

I think I have a townread there
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Post Post #227 (isolation #13) » Sat Jan 16, 2021 11:35 pm

Post by DeasVail »

I don’t know reck. I loved the idea of catching scum in my first string of posts, but I don’t know what to think of what has resulted from it now. It isn’t what I would have expected from scum and I’m concerned that I have been potentially barking up the wrong tree.

I know what you’re saying but is that the approach that Adorable takes here as scum? I’m in doubt
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Post Post #245 (isolation #14) » Sun Jan 17, 2021 9:30 am

Post by DeasVail »

In post 234, xRECKONERx wrote:
In post 228, petapan wrote:well yes but you're you and adorable is not you and right now it feels more like the sort of trivial weirdness scum would harp on over an actual scumslip
this is probably fine, we're different people, but it doesn't mean my lived experience is gonna let me let people walk away from being internally inconsistent
sometimes the simple answer of "they're scum and fucked up" is actually the answer (it's more common than you think)

but both you and dv seem to be cold on that so either one of you is scum with adorable or two townies are telling me this ain't it fam so ill sit for a bit
I’m definitely keeping an eye on things there and also always reevaluating my thoughts, but fwiw if I were scum with adorable I would probably still be bussing because the back-out is so messy as a buddy
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Post Post #277 (isolation #15) » Sun Jan 17, 2021 7:23 pm

Post by DeasVail »

In post 275, Adorable wrote:DV you never responded to my post at #205
Thank you for pointing it out to me.

Re: Xof it was a combination of the way that they expressed their thoughts and their approach to their read of me.

Xof’s posts indicate to me what is likely a genuine thought process. It is a bit difficult to explain but it feels very... xof, and I don’t get any sense of them doing anything other than what they would naturally do. (I would expect more awkwardness or fabrication as scum)

I think the read of me is also indicative of town because I would expect xof-town to be interested in my alignment early on, but i also like that there is very little ceremony associated with it. From xof-scum I would expect more of a show about how they think I’m town but are a bit paranoid and don’t know whether to trust me etc

The fact that the expression of thinking I am more likely town is just... there... with no extra fluff, it makes it appear more genuine to me.



In response to Augustus, I have played two recent games with Datisi where I was either a miselim or a potential miselim and so I would expect datisi to have that in mind here as scum.
I don’t think that any of Datisi’s posting since has been strongly indicative to me either way, but I’m not overly concerned.



I will probably update my reads tonight
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Post Post #281 (isolation #16) » Sun Jan 17, 2021 8:40 pm

Post by DeasVail »

In post 278, xRECKONERx wrote:i think you raised a good "catch" in DV's 171 saying "I applied pressure because I was bored", but I don't think it's enough to undo the town read I have on him so far
Wouldn’t you agree that it was a bit silly to pressure an innocuous RVS vote? I was honestly shocked that it produced the content that it did.
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Post Post #284 (isolation #17) » Mon Jan 18, 2021 12:53 am

Post by DeasVail »

VOTE: Aristophanes
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Post Post #285 (isolation #18) » Mon Jan 18, 2021 12:57 am

Post by DeasVail »

In post 280, Datisi wrote:
In post 276, Isis wrote:
xRECKONERx
(4) - Augustus Caesar, Aristophanes, petapan, Adorable
ok. can we talk about what the utter dumpster fire this wagon is? like, peta's vote on it is the least bad one, and that's saying something. hectic's vote is kinda like. bleh. made in some sorta anger, then getting told by teammates he's overreacting, then just kinda like staying on the wagon. not good but like whatever. i'm still net +town on hectic i'm just saying.

last night, duck was yelling at me for not trying to get aristophanes killed yet. and like i think he's right. ari's vote here boiled down to "reck feels off", when called out on it, ari did a "ok maybe not but whatever" (). i believe he was asked to elaborate further, and he's just...? dipped the thread??? ok.

i was gonna come in this morning after my 3 and a half hours of sleep and offer a hot take and vote ari but like.
adorable
.

i don't like my ignored. now before you say "adorable didn't see it!!" no no here's the thing. adorable has been brewing a scumread on me for a few posts now. (, , , ) when your scumread, who you believe is pushing a misexe on you, is doing what i'm doing, do you really just ~miss~ it?

now her reasons for scumreading reck boil down to a bunch of nai shit (personality) and his first vote against her. but like. she's been talking about the scumread on me for far longer. now all of a sudden i'm forgotten, and she votes reck? i wonder if the fact that reck was on three votes and i was on zero has anything to do with that.

also also can i just point out how... bad the read on xof is? like, at first it was applying vague mafia theory without looking at the context of the game. but now it's applying *wrong* vague mafia theory. the idea that scum never defend each other is insane and i'm lowkey weirded out nobody's brought this up?
I feel like Adorable's posting is essentially a smorgasbord of scumreadable material and honestly that's what's giving me pause here. But... I am aware that this could just be scum.

Nonetheless, Adorable is undoubtedly getting a lot of attention.

Aristophanes kind of has but not to nearly the same degree. I want Ari getting some attention now.
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Post Post #286 (isolation #19) » Mon Jan 18, 2021 1:01 am

Post by DeasVail »

Also there's something from Adorable that I am waiting on that'll probably inform my read.
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Post Post #342 (isolation #20) » Mon Jan 18, 2021 6:15 pm

Post by DeasVail »

Sirius could actually be scum eh?
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Post Post #376 (isolation #21) » Tue Jan 19, 2021 10:26 am

Post by DeasVail »

Ari, in response to your question to me, I chose Adorable's vote because it came at a time when there had been some vaguely interesting posts made, it was a vote on Augustus who had been a relatively loud player, Adorable had only just made the vote so chances of real-time interaction were high, I didn't have any familiarity with Adorable so it would have been good to get some insight, and I just happened to be looking at the thread at the time and thought it would be fun to subvert RVS expectations and meta for a bit of wtf!

But now I have some questions for you!
In post 371, Aristophanes wrote:I think your read of DV is directly effected by your read on Adorable and I don't know that it is the best metric to base it upon.
But what is YOUR read of me?

There is a lot of commenting on other people's reads and criticising the reasoning, but this is actually very easy to do as scum! What is more difficult is coming up with thoughts of your own which I notice you haven't actually done very much of despite saying a lot of words.

Similarly, you say the beeboy vote is meh, but I want to know what vote you think is not meh.
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Post Post #394 (isolation #22) » Tue Jan 19, 2021 1:40 pm

Post by DeasVail »

UNVOTE:

Probably going to start reevaluating
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Post Post #486 (isolation #23) » Wed Jan 20, 2021 2:08 pm

Post by DeasVail »

I will be v/la for the next approx 18 hours
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Post Post #566 (isolation #24) » Thu Jan 21, 2021 12:40 pm

Post by DeasVail »

In post 458, petapan wrote:that said,

VOTE: Adorable

Reck finally pulled me down on one side of the fence
This vote is not what I expected and is the opposite of the direction of my own read, which was heading towards Adorable-town.
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Post Post #567 (isolation #25) » Thu Jan 21, 2021 12:41 pm

Post by DeasVail »

In post 460, Aristophanes wrote:Also I fund all of the attention on beeboy funny because xof hasn't been here in the same amount of time and nobody cares? There was a 3 hour difference between their last posts.

Like I get that beebs is a meta point but still, the fact that nobody cares if a slot that has only 3 posts has been silent the same amount of time be has is funny to me.
Ari I don't understand why you are comparing beeboy and xofelf here. One of them has posted thoughts/content and the other has not. It's a pretty clear difference to me.
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Post Post #571 (isolation #26) » Thu Jan 21, 2021 12:50 pm

Post by DeasVail »

Okay I don't have a better place for my vote to go than on beeboy atm.

I eagerly await bulge's vanity vote.

I now townread Adorable and Ari, who are people I previously suspected.

I think Peta changing his vote to Adorable was still very odd.
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Post Post #576 (isolation #27) » Thu Jan 21, 2021 12:55 pm

Post by DeasVail »

a peta townread is a very easy read to have considering that peta's posting on surface level looks protown and has been one of the least controversial slots of this game.
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Post Post #580 (isolation #28) » Thu Jan 21, 2021 1:32 pm

Post by DeasVail »

In post 577, xRECKONERx wrote:ok it's time to force myself to do a readslist to start engaging with where i subconsciously have people in my mind

TOWN

DeasVail: prob my strongest townread, we're mindmelding on everything which tells me he's coming at this genuinely, put himself way out there to figure shit out.

xofelf: low content, but what's there is 100% in line with where my brain is atm. dig it. more of it pls but dig it for now.

Sirius: see earlier post. think this is indicative of town mindset rather than scum.

Datisi: earnest attempts to try and get thoughts/content out of people. only slight tinge is calling me v hectic town v town early, i think scum love to call out TvT, but everything outside of that looks like town effort

Hectic: null, slight tinges here n there on town. the way hectic backed up and listened to the team instead of tunneling me gives me town vibes. some of it might be bc he didn't want to get into a shouting match with me and lose, but i read some careful consideration in his posts. behaviorally, seems town.

Ydrasse: peppering some questions around to poke at diff thoughts/opinions, but none of it is really concrete. it's all wrapped in a sort of cute joking wrapper and that's hard for me to parse. notably voting sirius when nobody else was. in the sort of null lump pile in the middle. true null i guess for this list.

Adorable: I'm struggling w this slot tbh. it's full of constant contradictions. she gets done one second saying A is true, then in her very next post will say A is false instead. it's bizarre. that being said, i think when pushed through the flustered behavior, i'm seeing GLIMPSES of genuine understanding. idk. i dont want to subscribe to too scummy to be scum so i am def keeping my eye out here but it does feel like if adorable is scum, she's gonna let us know in big flashing neon letters eventually.

The Bulge: null, leaning slightly scum. there's not a lot to work with in a 40+ post iso. i found early questioning of me weird, asking for self meta, i'm not sure what the expected result of that was. still overall feel like probably too early to tell but slight scum lean just bc there's a lot of empty reasonless proclamations w/out much to them.

Creature: something pinged me weird ab Creature's "I have rolled town" at the start, seems unnatural. really hate how he just declares things are townie or scummy without any reasoning. esp dislike his read on me going from "not fake but scum might post this" to "reck is a surefire scumread" seemingly with no trajectory, feels like he was waiting to see if there was appetite and when there ws he committed harder. there's not much to analyze here bc despite high volume they're all zero calories.

petapan: agar is much more confident in scum here than i am, but i do think there was something weird about how peta voted sirius early under the guise of actually scumreading him and then just literally never talked about it or followed up. then the way peta inserted himself into me/dv questioning adorable felt like a combo platter of piling on mixed with LAMIST. the pokes and prods at me, ari, adorable, etc have all felt half-assed and i don't feel like have gotten us anywhere. reads all feel noncommittal at this point.

Aristophanes: boy, this is just a weird, gross kinda slot. overeager is ari's brand, but something ab the early RVS joke play here feels hollow and nongenuine. the hop onto me with hectic was awful. "reck is off" isn't anything. i asked for an elaboration and he couldn't give one, he just backpedaled on using the word "off". p much my entire adorable townread epiphany came from looking at how far ari was bending over backwards to defend her. the hop off and hop BACK onto me is gross, and it's all wrapped up in this defense of adorable's contradictory behavior. i don't believe town would have such a boner for shutting down
someone calling out contradictions
. he also has this entire narrative he's putting out there that i was ever attacking or tunneling on hectic when i literally haven't the entire game, he's just trying to use my loud personality to poison the well. it's all scummy as fuck.

beeboy: fuck meta, kill nonparticipants, it's team fucking mafia.
SCUM
Ooo, your peta read is in a similar place to mine. Cool!
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Post Post #581 (isolation #29) » Thu Jan 21, 2021 1:33 pm

Post by DeasVail »

At some point we will need to talk about Ari though. I will come up with a spiel this afternoon on why my read on Ari has changed to town.
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Post Post #583 (isolation #30) » Thu Jan 21, 2021 1:38 pm

Post by DeasVail »

In post 582, petapan wrote:
In post 576, DeasVail wrote:a peta townread is a very easy read to have considering that peta's posting on surface level looks protown and has been one of the least controversial slots of this game.
do u feel like scum would townread my play so far
I think so, yes. In a game like this where there are many easy targets, someone like you who is making reasonable posts and appears to be furthering the town's agenda is not worth suspecting as scum, regardless of your alignment.

(Obviously this isn't going to apply 100% but I would be suspicious of anyone calling you town and not saying much beyond that)
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Post Post #634 (isolation #31) » Fri Jan 22, 2021 12:33 pm

Post by DeasVail »

Aristophanes read: I previously suspected Aristophanes. I felt that his approach to the Adorable wagon in posts such as were indicative of scum not thinking too hard about players' alignments. I also felt that his approach to the game was more one of commentary than actually getting stuck in. I was even initially skeptical of Ari's catchup posts because I have found previously that big posts commenting on posts as you reread a game can be an easy way to look busy as scum.
However, my read has changed. I think a big reason for the read change is Ari's very loose references to his own meta and tendency to be read as fake. (Example ) It feels as if it's done in a very relaxed way to me and the way that it is integrated into Ari's posts feels more as if it's what he's thinking at the time as he writes the posts rather than included with any kind of real agenda, which is what it would be if it were from scum.
Just a lot of the ways in which Ari references his own efforts put into the game (e.g. feel organic. As scum, I feel like Ari would need to second guess talking about how much effort the game is for him and feeling drained (would people take that to mean that he is more likely to be scum?) whereas I interpret it as a true sense of how Ari is feeling and again the looseness of it feels more like town.
To be honest the comparison between beeboy and xof in is so ridiculous and I feel like a scum-Ari that has the ability to fake posts that I liked from above, would also have the ability to avoid such a dissonant comparison between xof and beeboy.
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Post Post #635 (isolation #32) » Fri Jan 22, 2021 12:49 pm

Post by DeasVail »

[Town]-- Aristophanes, Xofelf - Adorable, xRECKONERx -- Datisi, Augustus Caesar --- petapan, Summer Nights - [Sirius9121, The Bulge] -- Creature - beeboy -----[Scum]

^Where my reads are at right now.
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Post Post #640 (isolation #33) » Fri Jan 22, 2021 1:38 pm

Post by DeasVail »

If beeboy were scum, what do you think the other scum would be doing?
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Post Post #646 (isolation #34) » Fri Jan 22, 2021 1:50 pm

Post by DeasVail »

In post 639, Creature wrote:
In post 638, Adorable wrote:
In post 637, Creature wrote:Time to find culprits

VOTE: Augustus Caesar
On I saw you put Augustus as green and what made you change your mind all of a sudden?
The game is stagnant and that's probably because scum are fine with the current gamestate
In post 642, Creature wrote:Probably just hellbussing beeboy
In post 641, Creature wrote:
In post 640, DeasVail wrote:If beeboy were scum, what do you think the other scum would be doing?
Jackshit
Your approach is not congruent with your answer then.

And I see you have realised that in your most recent post. But I don’t really believe that you are worried enough about the stagnant gamestate for that to be the main reason behind you scumreading someone you previously thought to be town
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Post Post #647 (isolation #35) » Fri Jan 22, 2021 1:54 pm

Post by DeasVail »

In post 643, Creature wrote:Though it looks kinda weird for the thread to be this inactive. I'd expect at least more movement to set themselves to live longer to endgame
Your most recent three scumreads were beeboy, reck and Sirius.

Do you expect Sirius as scum to do shit?

Reck has posted an in depth reads list and if you thought he was scum then he easily fits the brief of setting himself up for endgame.

What are you expecting your scumreads to be doing that they aren’t doing?

Is movement to try to set yourself up for endgame what you are doing right now?
Are you worried abort the scumreads on you and trying to do something to change them?
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Post Post #653 (isolation #36) » Fri Jan 22, 2021 2:16 pm

Post by DeasVail »

In post 648, petapan wrote:i was going to ask why DV was scumreading creature since it's the first he's mentioned it but it looks like he's getting into that

VOTE: the bulge

i've kinda accepted beeboy is just going to disappear so i'll vote somewhere that might react
Yeah I’m getting there

Will see where things go and maybe talk more about it in a bit



I’m not quite as concerned about bulge right now as other people seem to be. I don’t really have much to justify a read either way right now, but I have a feeling it’ll be town
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Post Post #658 (isolation #37) » Fri Jan 22, 2021 2:31 pm

Post by DeasVail »

Oh the case is not on peta? Aw :( I got excited there!
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Post Post #659 (isolation #38) » Fri Jan 22, 2021 2:37 pm

Post by DeasVail »

Anyway this suspense makes the game feel like thriller flick. Who will bulge vote for? Will their case actually be good? Is Bulge even town??

As a token of my gratitude, Bulge can move to town
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Post Post #669 (isolation #39) » Fri Jan 22, 2021 2:54 pm

Post by DeasVail »

Oh okay that’s a pretty good read bulge, I’m intrigued.

I don’t entirely buy the read, and I think that the earliest point about your interaction could just be Datisi trying to pressure/sort you and not really thinking about how he looks from it. Feels a bit overtly manipulative to come from scum, while being manipulative as town can be totally normal.

I’m prepared to reconsider my stance ultimately but I doubt I vote to elim Datisi right now/soon
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Post Post #670 (isolation #40) » Fri Jan 22, 2021 2:55 pm

Post by DeasVail »

In post 668, petapan wrote:we're on page 27 and you're basing a case on someone on jokey self-awareness come the fuck on

really took you that long to put that shit together? too hard scraping the bottom of the barrel?
You seem oddly unnerved
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Post Post #673 (isolation #41) » Fri Jan 22, 2021 2:59 pm

Post by DeasVail »

That’s what I was wondering too?
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Post Post #676 (isolation #42) » Fri Jan 22, 2021 3:08 pm

Post by DeasVail »

I could be wrong. I was just surprised to see bulge’s case inspire so much passion.

The big lead-up to an ultimately underwhelming case seems like a weird move from scum.
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Post Post #707 (isolation #43) » Sat Jan 23, 2021 3:32 pm

Post by DeasVail »

Hi Creature, while people are getting distracted by bulge you’re still hot on my radar. If you’re town, please change that somehow. If you’re scum, feel free to continue doing what you’re doing
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Post Post #724 (isolation #44) » Sun Jan 24, 2021 10:26 am

Post by DeasVail »

[Town]-- Aristophanes - Adorable, xRECKONERx, xofelf -- Datisi, Augustus Caesar -- The Bulge - Summer Nights, petapan - [Sirius9121] --- Creature --- RCEnigma --[Scum]

Reads update.

RCE I'm really sorry but you're looking very scum right now.
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Post Post #727 (isolation #45) » Sun Jan 24, 2021 11:05 am

Post by DeasVail »

In post 725, RCEnigma wrote:My slot hasn't posted prior to my rep in so I'm assuming you mean unreadable, but treating as scum.
No I think you’re scum
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Post Post #731 (isolation #46) » Sun Jan 24, 2021 11:12 am

Post by DeasVail »

In post 726, RCEnigma wrote:The early pressure on adorable is both A.) Easily read as a gauge on pushable slots (read as elimmable) and B.) An easy way to look busy early.

DV what were you looking for when you questioned adorables vote initially? Pressuring them into thinking they NEED a solid reason to throw down an rvs vote looked very strong armish.
I have talked about this a fair bit in other posts which you probably haven’t caught up to yet. is a good summary I think.

In response to your other question, it had nothing to do with familiarity. I thought that a teammate would be quite interested in making a read on the main pusher of adorable at the time

PEdit:

I’m just clarifying that it is a read and not an assumption in the absence of content.

I don’t want to be rude because replacing into this slot as scum would be awful but your posting has made me more confident in the slot being scum than I was previously and I feel the need to express that.
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Post Post #734 (isolation #47) » Sun Jan 24, 2021 11:16 am

Post by DeasVail »

VOTE: RCEnigma

I’m fine if people want to wait and see more, but I think I’ve seen enough to be comfortable with an elimination here
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Post Post #736 (isolation #48) » Sun Jan 24, 2021 11:30 am

Post by DeasVail »

If you are town being read as scum by someone, I think that a common thought soon after is, “am I being pushed by town or scum?”

The fact that mwb had comment on lots of things but not on me was concerning to me at the time
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Post Post #738 (isolation #49) » Sun Jan 24, 2021 11:34 am

Post by DeasVail »

What is love?
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Post Post #741 (isolation #50) » Sun Jan 24, 2021 12:07 pm

Post by DeasVail »

That’s my null/undecided/no idea section
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Post Post #743 (isolation #51) » Sun Jan 24, 2021 12:41 pm

Post by DeasVail »

In post 742, Sirius9121 wrote:
In post 741, DeasVail wrote:That’s my null/undecided/no idea section
so basically you have 10 town reads, 1 null read and 1 scum read?
Creature and RCE are my scumreads. But otherwise yes
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Post Post #752 (isolation #52) » Sun Jan 24, 2021 3:01 pm

Post by DeasVail »

In post 749, Creature wrote:
In post 734, DeasVail wrote:VOTE: RCEnigma

I’m fine if people want to wait and see more, but I think I’ve seen enough to be comfortable with an elimination here
Me too, but I don't want to end up being pressured all day tomorrow and feel unable to scumhunt due to that wagon
Why are you expecting a wagon on you? I don't think there are many, if any, votes on you now.
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Post Post #754 (isolation #53) » Sun Jan 24, 2021 3:23 pm

Post by DeasVail »

I still wonder why you are concerned about the risk of a wagon on you though
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Post Post #796 (isolation #54) » Mon Jan 25, 2021 12:21 pm

Post by DeasVail »

I am only going to be peripherally available for the next few hours but my decision to vote RCE and comfort with eliminating him was based on believing his posts upon replace-in to be much more indicative of scum than of town, particularly the topics that RCE was deciding to focus on felt much more like scum trying to create content than actually forming an understanding of the gamestate and developing reads (e.g. fixation on my push of Adorable). This is something that I’ll be able to go more in-depth on later when I have the time and am at my computer. And I’ll also be considering any posts RCE has made in the meantime and sharing my thoughts on them.
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Post Post #849 (isolation #55) » Tue Jan 26, 2021 10:04 am

Post by DeasVail »

Is that all?
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Post Post #865 (isolation #56) » Tue Jan 26, 2021 10:19 am

Post by DeasVail »

Why I still think RCEnigma is scum:

In summary, the posts made by RCE to me are indicative, not of someone who is trying to actually work out what's going on in the game, but of someone trying to post content and look like they're doing stuff. Obviously town want to post content too, but the first priority is actually deciding "what do I think is happening here? Who is town? Who is scum?" As scum in RCE's position, replacing into a slot under pressure, the priority is more along the lines of "quick! I need to look like I'm town and solving!"

The priorities are different.

I believe RCE's posting fits into the "quick! I need to look like I'm town and solving category".

Firstly, in , he comes up with a shortlist poe of three people, from the first 7 pages of the game. I believe this to be incredibly unnatural. Firstly, because of coming up with a poe team from the first 7 pages of the game when there's much more than that and he clearly hasn't caught up. But why as town are you even making yourself come up with a scumteam of 3 7 pages into a catchup anyway. The most likely explanation for this is so that he's looking like he's scumhunting, rather than natural scumhunting itself.

Similarly reverts to commenting on how many scum are on the wagon, which is superficial and one of the easiest things to talk about as scum.

Consistent with my thoughts on the above is RCE's focus on the push of Adorable. If he was actually interested in reading me, a quick ISO (I don't have that many posts) would reveal my reasons for voting Adorable and also my pattern of going hard on pressuring people and re-evaluating my reads (examples being Adorable and Aristophanes). My approach this game has very clearly been to be aggressive, which RCE has noted, but I think the attempts to twist it as agenda-driven don't hold up with what I have posted. My coming around to a townread on Adorable was influenced by Peta's post, but with both Adorable and Aristophanes, there was still substantial suspicion and pressure from the game in general when I formed a townread. And I believe RCE has either ignored or hasn't thought to look for evidence that contradicts his thinking in relation to my slot. Similarly, he has ISO'd random people like Sirius but not me, despite being suspicious of my intimidation tactics. It doesn't fit with what I expect from town here.

I don't see anything in RCE's posts that is inconsistent with what I expect from scum in this position. Not all scum are going to be like beeboy and not post. Scum are supposed to try and look town, they're supposed to produce content and avoid being eliminated. This is exactly what I think RCE is doing.
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Post Post #867 (isolation #57) » Tue Jan 26, 2021 10:21 am

Post by DeasVail »

In post 850, Creature wrote:
In post 839, xRECKONERx wrote:DV wagon would be hella bad
Likely we'll compromise on RCE anyway but we can't ignore DeasVail forever
What makes you feel that I'm being ignored?
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Post Post #872 (isolation #58) » Tue Jan 26, 2021 10:33 am

Post by DeasVail »

In post 869, Datisi wrote:deas, should i scumread you for the fact that you don't seem to be worried *at all* about the fact you have 9 townreads, 1 null, and 2 scumreads in a game that is 9:3 (from town!you pov), and aren't even trying to fact check and see if you're wrong anywhere, while you're just making sure that the rce wagon goes through?
My reads are sort of made with the expectation that there will be scum in my townreads, hence the decision to also be thinking carefully about the strength of read. I've used that approach to reads when I've hydra'd with Regfan and for me it works very well in forcing re-evaluation and reconsidering both townreads and scumreads, which is why I decided to use it here. Those towards the lower end of my townreads in particular (petapan, The Bulge, Summer Nights) are people that I still think are potential scum and I pay a lot of thought to the posts they make as well. And even though it may not be evident, I do think a lot about my existing townreads and confirm that I still believe they are town.

For example, xofelf calling for action despite being ultimately very passive and disengaged bothered me at surface level, however I have decided that it is probably more indicative of town because it is consistent with my own familiarity with xof and I think scum would be more aware of their own lack of involvement.

Reckoner at times being a bit vague or appearing low in conviction has bothered me, but overall I still read Reckoner's involvement in the game to be very town and have not found justification to seriously suspect him yet.

Just some examples of thoughts I've had that haven't been important enough for me to post, except now for the sake of giving you insight into my thoughts. <3
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Post Post #873 (isolation #59) » Tue Jan 26, 2021 10:34 am

Post by DeasVail »

In post 871, Creature wrote:Also 865 is very bad
I would actually love some elaboration on this. Why is it bad? Is it because you disagree and think RCE is town? The game needs to know.
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Post Post #881 (isolation #60) » Tue Jan 26, 2021 10:54 am

Post by DeasVail »

My initial impression has been that you’re both town. I think that it was a weak case but I don’t agree with others in thinking that bulge is scummy for it.

I think I feel similar about you and bulge to how you feel about me, which is why I understand your enthusiasm to see a case on me. I felt the same way about a case on you.

But RCE is a case where everything lines up with what I expect from scum (unlike previous pushes of mine) and so I would be concerned about the elimination not going through. At this stage, providing a push to help make that happen is my main priority.

I think that a lot of Creature’s posts are overly vague/unhelpful/not thought through, but I still find myself questioning whether that actually comes from scum or not.

PEdit: above is @Datisi
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Post Post #882 (isolation #61) » Tue Jan 26, 2021 10:55 am

Post by DeasVail »

In post 880, Creature wrote:I think we should just push somewhere to get the game moving.
This is obviously what I’m doing and I am quite baffled that you seem to have an issue with it
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Post Post #884 (isolation #62) » Tue Jan 26, 2021 11:02 am

Post by DeasVail »

Your posting implies that you want a push to happen somewhere but if I am pushing RCE that is not a valid push for some reason?
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Post Post #885 (isolation #63) » Tue Jan 26, 2021 11:05 am

Post by DeasVail »

Also creature is probably town, especially if RCE is scum
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Post Post #888 (isolation #64) » Tue Jan 26, 2021 3:26 pm

Post by DeasVail »

In post 887, petapan wrote:i lean that way based on his responses to you (an just overall) but as a rule i never townclear anyone who hard defends scum
Fair point. I think I possibly swung too hard in the opposite direction when I realised “oh gosh creature is actually town”. What it means for where my reads are at overall? I don’t know. I’m planning to do a relook at Augustus and Summer in particular as they are not reads I have really properly thought about in a little while. But yeah I’m good with getting a claim here.
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Post Post #903 (isolation #65) » Wed Jan 27, 2021 10:34 am

Post by DeasVail »

UNVOTE:
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Post Post #906 (isolation #66) » Wed Jan 27, 2021 10:43 am

Post by DeasVail »

In post 904, RCEnigma wrote:I also didn't get an answer about the scum knowing modifiers question.
I mean, you were asking the players in the game who have access to the same set-up related information that you do.
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Post Post #917 (isolation #67) » Wed Jan 27, 2021 11:46 am

Post by DeasVail »

People I don't want to elim today:

Sirius, Aristophanes, Creature, xofelf, Adorable, xRECKONERx, RCEnigma (there's no real point in an elimination here right now to be honest, regardless of read on the slot)

The rest are potential options in my mind.

Summer Nights is the slot that I feel most indifferent about right now. Pushing there is kind of low value because she's not even really here, but it also feels like the most comfortable place for a vote. And peta voting there is eerie because it was the first thought in my mind when I unvoted as well and a lot of the reasons he has put forward are similar to what I have been thinking.

VOTE: Summer Nights
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Post Post #1035 (isolation #68) » Thu Jan 28, 2021 1:56 am

Post by DeasVail »

I feel like I'm the only one that actually finds Summer's reaction to the wagon not very alignment-indicative?

Also I don't really care if RCE is eliminated and in some ways it would be a relief to have it be over but I don't know if I can bring myself to do it because I still am of the opinion that if you can test a claim then may as well test it. I was as gung-ho about eliminating RCE as anyone and I still think he is most likely scum but aaaahh why did he have to claim that?

Where I'm at:

[Town]-- Aristophanes - Adorable, xRECKONERx, xofelf -- petapan, Sirius9121 - Augustus Caesar -- Creature, Datisi, The Bulge - [NULL] -- Summer Nights ---- ???RCEnigma??? -- [Scum]

This is a general guide of my reads not taking into account RCE flip possibilities.

Main things of note are that petapan has jumped to a more solid townread for me. I feel a bit underwhelmed by Creature, Datisi and The Bulge currently for various reasons and am considering scum in that group. And yeah, I don't see much town in Summer's posting.
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Post Post #1064 (isolation #69) » Sat Jan 30, 2021 11:48 pm

Post by DeasVail »

tbh my reason for suddenly townreading peta was because he wouldn't have unvoted RCE as scum
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Post Post #1066 (isolation #70) » Sun Jan 31, 2021 12:33 am

Post by DeasVail »

I'm not really sure what you mean there. I'm pretty sure that as scum with beeboy-slot, peta hard-busses 99 times out of 100, but it's not really relevant now anyway.

I'm not in a place right now to be able to decide on a direction I want to take for the day, but I will be more able to in the coming days.
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Post Post #1096 (isolation #71) » Mon Feb 01, 2021 12:10 am

Post by DeasVail »

Okay let's see what happens when I do this

VOTE: xofelf*

I used to like your posts but on a review of the game, they feel frigid. There's a lack of spontaneity which makes me worried that you're scum overthinking your posts.

(also the movement around the beeboy/RCE-slot does not look good)

Reck, if I am completely off here then please let me know but I think we may need to reconsider our read on txof

*inspired by Adorable

--

My reads may be in overhaul so no specific reads update for now, but I really really need to see more from Summer Nights. I don't feel as good about eliminating her as I did when voting her Day 1 though.

I considered pushing Bulge today and it is still a possibility imo but in some ways the weak case on Datisi is something that I think is
less
likely from scum while a lurker-buddy is being wagoned? No way Bulge thought that the Datisi case would save the beeboy slot. The more I type the more I feel uncomfortable with Bulge as scum.

I think mostly right now I want to explore xof and would like to engage Reck about this as someone else who townread Xof with me early on.
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Post Post #1100 (isolation #72) » Mon Feb 01, 2021 9:22 am

Post by DeasVail »

Thanks for your post Reck. Your post has very similar thoughts to what I've had, and it was indeed the vote on RCE at the end that triggered alarm in me.

I would like to see something from xofelf today before moving on, but I expect I will be moving on.
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Post Post #1121 (isolation #73) » Tue Feb 02, 2021 1:08 am

Post by DeasVail »

In post 1101, Datisi wrote:what's the point of saying "oh i expect i'll be moving on"?? like it feels more ~for show~ rather than like. a towny thought process of solving another slot.
It was partly me thinking that I was probably wrong in my sudden paranoia of xofelf and partly me wanting to see how xofelf responded to that. I think it can be interesting seeing how people respond to different approaches to their slot. For example day 1 I gave petapan a lot of "shade" without ever really pushing him directly, while I was more aggressive at Adorable. I don't have a specific "I expect scum-X to respond a certain way to a certain approach" but I'm using this game as an opportunity to explore different approaches and see what works for me I guess.

UNVOTE:
VOTE: Summer Nights
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Post Post #1144 (isolation #74) » Tue Feb 02, 2021 7:45 pm

Post by DeasVail »

In post 1128, xRECKONERx wrote:
In post 1121, DeasVail wrote:
In post 1101, Datisi wrote:what's the point of saying "oh i expect i'll be moving on"?? like it feels more ~for show~ rather than like. a towny thought process of solving another slot.
It was partly me thinking that I was probably wrong in my sudden paranoia of xofelf and partly me wanting to see how xofelf responded to that. I think it can be interesting seeing how people respond to different approaches to their slot. For example day 1 I gave petapan a lot of "shade" without ever really pushing him directly, while I was more aggressive at Adorable. I don't have a specific "I expect scum-X to respond a certain way to a certain approach" but I'm using this game as an opportunity to explore different approaches and see what works for me I guess.

UNVOTE:
VOTE: Summer Nights
Hmmmm
You think the dueling wagons y/day were SvS?
From the direction of votes, I think that the fact that they became dueling wagons is not very alignment-indicative.

When the n1 vig claim was made, there was no real reason for the scum team to believe that Summer Nights would be the alternative wagon.

The summer nights wagon was created by petapan (town) and then supported by me (town), at which point, are scum really going to be trying for an alternate wagon? In a world where Summer Nights is scum, I think that the scumteam have to accept here that they are losing a member Day 1 regardless (and tbh I think that RCE is the less sustainable of slots so needs to be sacrificed)
Obviously that only applies if Summer Nights is scum but I think it shows that Summer Nights being an alternate wagon does not actually indicate she is less likely to be scum.

One could even think that the RCE N1 vig claim followed by a very likely lack of attempt by scum to save him once the Summer Nights wagon materialised (including RCE himself not doing anything to survive) could be suspicious but I don't put too much stock in that thought-bubble.
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Post Post #1145 (isolation #75) » Tue Feb 02, 2021 7:49 pm

Post by DeasVail »

My vote on Summer is mostly triggered by a lack of other available options (in my mind) due to townreading most of the game.

I am always thinking about Bulge, particularly because of peta's scumread there and that a few people are suspicious of them, but I'm feeling cautious there. There is just a real lack of attempt to look town, which is quite different from what I'd expect from scum. When RCE entered the game it fit with my expectations of what scum would do, and I expressed as much. I'm not sure that Bulge's play does. It's weird.
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Post Post #1154 (isolation #76) » Wed Feb 03, 2021 7:18 pm

Post by DeasVail »

Bulge, now that you are feeling clear about the game I would really like to know where your head is at?

Creature, where are you? You pushed the RCE wagon through Day 1 after hard-defending him. Wouldn’t that be motivation to have another mafia elim day 2?
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Post Post #1189 (isolation #77) » Fri Feb 05, 2021 11:01 am

Post by DeasVail »

I think we should flip summer
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Post Post #1349 (isolation #78) » Fri Feb 05, 2021 9:11 pm

Post by DeasVail »

In post 1208, Augustus Caesar wrote:oh oh oh
so
Deus
In post 865, DeasVail wrote:Why I still think RCEnigma is scum:

In summary, the posts made by RCE to me are indicative, not of someone who is trying to actually work out what's going on in the game, but of someone trying to post content and look like they're doing stuff. Obviously town want to post content too, but the first priority is actually deciding "what do I think is happening here? Who is town? Who is scum?" As scum in RCE's position, replacing into a slot under pressure, the priority is more along the lines of "quick! I need to look like I'm town and solving!"

The priorities are different.

I believe RCE's posting fits into the "quick! I need to look like I'm town and solving category".

Firstly, in , he comes up with a shortlist poe of three people, from the first 7 pages of the game. I believe this to be incredibly unnatural. Firstly, because of coming up with a poe team from the first 7 pages of the game when there's much more than that and he clearly hasn't caught up. But why as town are you even making yourself come up with a scumteam of 3 7 pages into a catchup anyway. The most likely explanation for this is so that he's looking like he's scumhunting, rather than natural scumhunting itself.

Similarly reverts to commenting on how many scum are on the wagon, which is superficial and one of the easiest things to talk about as scum.

Consistent with my thoughts on the above is RCE's focus on the push of Adorable. If he was actually interested in reading me, a quick ISO (I don't have that many posts) would reveal my reasons for voting Adorable and also my pattern of going hard on pressuring people and re-evaluating my reads (examples being Adorable and Aristophanes). My approach this game has very clearly been to be aggressive, which RCE has noted, but I think the attempts to twist it as agenda-driven don't hold up with what I have posted. My coming around to a townread on Adorable was influenced by Peta's post, but with both Adorable and Aristophanes, there was still substantial suspicion and pressure from the game in general when I formed a townread. And I believe RCE has either ignored or hasn't thought to look for evidence that contradicts his thinking in relation to my slot. Similarly, he has ISO'd random people like Sirius but not me, despite being suspicious of my intimidation tactics. It doesn't fit with what I expect from town here.

I don't see anything in RCE's posts that is inconsistent with what I expect from scum in this position. Not all scum are going to be like beeboy and not post. Scum are supposed to try and look town, they're supposed to produce content and avoid being eliminated. This is exactly what I think RCE is doing.
^you landed a big case on RCE explaining all the reasons you thought he was scum. He was last in your reads and you seemed pretty confident about it.

he then claims, and you immediately unvote:
In post 903, DeasVail wrote:UNVOTE:
following this, he is in your "don't want to elim" pool. You try and find a new wagon in Summer, but the thing about this that bothers me is that you don't even provide reasoning for
why
RCE shouldn't be the elim today. You treat it as if it's an unspoken rule that a roleclaim like that should be given a night.
In post 917, DeasVail wrote:People I don't want to elim today:

Sirius, Aristophanes, Creature, xofelf, Adorable, xRECKONERx, RCEnigma (there's no real point in an elimination here right now to be honest, regardless of read on the slot)

The rest are potential options in my mind.

Summer Nights is the slot that I feel most indifferent about right now. Pushing there is kind of low value because she's not even really here, but it also feels like the most comfortable place for a vote. And peta voting there is eerie because it was the first thought in my mind when I unvoted as well and a lot of the reasons he has put forward are similar to what I have been thinking.

VOTE: Summer Nights
We then have this post:
In post 1035, DeasVail wrote:I feel like I'm the only one that actually finds Summer's reaction to the wagon not very alignment-indicative?

Also I don't really care if RCE is eliminated and in some ways it would be a relief to have it be over but I don't know if I can bring myself to do it because I still am of the opinion that if you can test a claim then may as well test it. I was as gung-ho about eliminating RCE as anyone and I still think he is most likely scum but aaaahh why did he have to claim that?

Where I'm at:

[Town]-- Aristophanes - Adorable, xRECKONERx, xofelf -- petapan, Sirius9121 - Augustus Caesar -- Creature, Datisi, The Bulge - [NULL] -- Summer Nights ---- ???RCEnigma??? -- [Scum]

This is a general guide of my reads not taking into account RCE flip possibilities.

Main things of note are that petapan has jumped to a more solid townread for me. I feel a bit underwhelmed by Creature, Datisi and The Bulge currently for various reasons and am considering scum in that group. And yeah, I don't see much town in Summer's posting.
I've been going gungho on voting out RCE anyway, and you come back and say "I don't really care if RCE is eliminated". but then why did you unvote with such confidence and find another wagon without even discussing or commenting the claim? that tells me in your mind, it absolutely gives RCE a night, and that you didn't feel the need to even explain why to others.

You also don't attempt to talk me down or argue that RCE should be given a night, you just let it happen despite you clearly being of the opinion that he should from you unvote/vote on Summer. why? I think it might be because you're his scum buddy that doesn't want to go as far as to actually defend him and make yourself look really bad the next day if I get the elim through (or the day after if he dies day 2 when there's no extra kill on night 1)

VOTE: Deus
I strongly thought RCE was scum (as you point out)
In response to a quite potentially confirmable claim, I believe it is best practice to look elsewhere for that day especially in this situation where there are two other scum and RCE’s claim would undoubtedly have been disproven if untrue.
(I feel like this didn’t really need to be said when I unvoted because it’s obvious the reason I unvoted was because of the claim. I also don’t recall anyone asking for clarification at the time, so there was no reason for me to think it was unclear)

But the tricky part is that I REALLY thought RCE was scum. So am I going to try and stop him from being eliminated? No, because I was worried the whole time that I’d be stopping an elimination on scum and that’d be bad. (Before the claim I was almost as confident as I can get on RCE being scum)

Am I going to vote RCE myself? No, because my personal preference would be to wait to see if the role can be proven. Also some doubt in my read etc

Am I going to think about who else might be scum regardless of RCE’s flip? Yes, because even if RCE is scum, there are still two other people (I assume, I can’t remember whether that’s confirmed or not)

I apologise if my thought process wasn’t clear at the time and I can understand why it would seem a bit strange, but I also think it’s a very strange arc to take as scum. PUSHING relentlessly on RCE as soon as he replaces in and then suddenly stopping after a claim that is only going to buy him a night max.

I haven’t read everything else yet and am interested to see so many jump on but I thought I would do my best to clarify what my position was Day 1
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Post Post #1350 (isolation #79) » Fri Feb 05, 2021 9:19 pm

Post by DeasVail »

In post 1212, Augustus Caesar wrote:
In post 903, DeasVail wrote:UNVOTE:
In post 910, petapan wrote:okay, was keeping this read somewhere in the back pocket but i hashed this one out with the hivemind a little bit earlier today so i'm more comfortable outing it

the feeling is that summer nights came into the game eagerly fluffing and RPing with hectic to, like, find footing but just hasn't done much after. she has outed a few townreads but they feel very shallow in their reasoning and static in their movement, i don't get a sense they're being updated and re-evaluated as the thread moves as much. she's lacking in any insight. like saying she could "go for are" because he hasn't "done too much" is not good reasoning, but also a little soft, tentative, like it's reaching out to explore whether it's an acceptable push. also, the paranoia toward datisi in just feels fake, it doesn't feel truly as much like she's really fearful of being fooled by datisi again as much as she's
acting
paranoid of him to seem town and maybe pocket him a little bit. i don't know hw to explain that in the sense that she talks about being afraid of him in a fairly over the top way but doesn't really question him or critically examine what he's saying.

there's also the thing where she makes gestures toward generating content from beeboy's replacement in and but she has not really engaged with RCE at all (and has instead fallen into prod range)

i held back in the feeling she mught just be starting slow and she'd be more readable as the game went on but given the claim i want to vote here

VOTE: summer nights
In post 917, DeasVail wrote:People I don't want to elim today:

Sirius, Aristophanes, Creature, xofelf, Adorable, xRECKONERx, RCEnigma (there's no real point in an elimination here right now to be honest, regardless of read on the slot)

The rest are potential options in my mind.

Summer Nights is the slot that I feel most indifferent about right now. Pushing there is kind of low value because she's not even really here, but it also feels like the most comfortable place for a vote. And peta voting there is eerie because it was the first thought in my mind when I unvoted as well and a lot of the reasons he has put forward are similar to what I have been thinking.

VOTE: Summer Nights
there's also this ordering
I cant really say anything here except that it was a very big coincidence (or maybe not a coincidence!) that peta was also thinking summer nights. It was a bit awkward because I had actually started typing up the post that morning, got distracted for a couple of hours and then adapted my post after seeing all the other posts (and admittedly was worried that people would think it opportunistic of me to vote summer after peta did).

I don’t really expect you to believe this but it’s honestly what happened and it was quite confidence-boosting to me that we came to the same conclusion independently
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Post Post #1351 (isolation #80) » Fri Feb 05, 2021 10:17 pm

Post by DeasVail »

In post 1222, Augustus Caesar wrote:Yeah, so Dues. I wanna hear why:

RCE's claim was enough for you to unvote
Why you didn't bother to discuss the claim at the time
Why you didn't bother to argue with me on killing RCE, or give opposition to it in your last post of the day
Why you said you were fine with a RCE elim if you unvoted
Just saw this! I feel like I’ve answered but let me know if there’s anything you’re clear on.

I think you’re even more likely town from all this though, so if we could get through this that would be cool!
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Post Post #1352 (isolation #81) » Fri Feb 05, 2021 10:31 pm

Post by DeasVail »

In post 1242, xRECKONERx wrote:The xof wagon still feels mmmmmm bad. So does DV.

Might I entice you all on some juicy ARISTOPHANES?
Might some of you answer my questions re: Summer Nights?
I posted why I think Ari is town on Day 1, and given that he hasn’t posted much at all since then, I think it remains relevant.
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Post Post #1353 (isolation #82) » Fri Feb 05, 2021 10:35 pm

Post by DeasVail »

Bulge, how much is your read of me influenced by the recent pressure on me?
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Post Post #1367 (isolation #83) » Sat Feb 06, 2021 10:52 am

Post by DeasVail »

In post 1364, Augustus Caesar wrote:
In post 1349, DeasVail wrote:But the tricky part is that I REALLY thought RCE was scum. So am I going to try and stop him from being eliminated? No, because I was worried the whole time that I’d be stopping an elimination on scum and that’d be bad. (Before the claim I was almost as confident as I can get on RCE being scum)
alright, so i understand you're saying you really thought RCE was scum which is why you didn't want to argue against eliminating him regardless. but if you have a personal preference to give the claim a day, that means you think it's a more optimal route for town, right? and if so, why not give your input more into why you'd want to do that or talk to me about it at all? I find it odd that in your next post all you have to say on it is "I'm actually don't care if RCE gets elimmed" or something along those lines. why not talk more about what you think is better for your wincon?
It got to the point where I actually didn’t care that much either way. Both options were valid in my mind. I thought eliminating RCE was a decent option because he was probably scum. I thought pursuing Summer Nights was a good idea because RCE was not going to last long if scum anyway, and tbh I think Summer/Ydrasse is still my top pick for scum but I’ll be going over my reads later today (including reevaluating Ari). I think in mafia you have to accept that not everything is going to go exactly your way all the time and sometimes it’s about picking your battles on the thing that really matter. Eliminating RCE vs not eliminating RCE was not one of those important things to me.
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Post Post #1368 (isolation #84) » Sat Feb 06, 2021 10:59 am

Post by DeasVail »

Reck, I still need to read over Ari again but just talking theory here.

As im sure you know, projection is a phenomenon that occurs all the time and while it’s not the most adaptive mechanism I don’t know why it makes someone scum.
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Post Post #1385 (isolation #85) » Sat Feb 06, 2021 1:37 pm

Post by DeasVail »

In post 1384, Creature wrote:
In post 1383, xRECKONERx wrote:what I'm saying is, I don't think scum would be willing to stick their neck out in that way for a role that was dead in the water anyway
Kinda hard to say rn. Starting D2 I also had them as too scummy to be scum, but now I'm unsure any of their actions ever make any sense as town and they're prob just scum flailing really hard since the beginning of the game.
If you’re talking about me here, I think that describing me as flailing is an extreme misrepresentation of my play and a lot of your posts just feel as if they are attempts to tarnish my reputation in the game.

I can’t conclude that you are scum from them partly because of just how off-base a lot of your posts about me seem to be but I don’t think it’s at all conducive to actually working together as town and I would ask you to really re-think your approach to me and my slot in general. Blaming it on DGB also does not fly because it’s not DGB that’s here and playing this game. It’s you
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Post Post #1387 (isolation #86) » Sun Feb 07, 2021 12:04 am

Post by DeasVail »

I think that a lot of Ari's posting is easy to pick apart and criticise, but having looked over his posts again, I'm still not actually convinced that it makes him scum.

I also find it very difficult to see the xofelf comparison coming from scum with beeboy:
In post 460, Aristophanes wrote:Also I fund all of the attention on beeboy funny because xof hasn't been here in the same amount of time and nobody cares? There was a 3 hour difference between their last posts.

Like I get that beebs is a meta point but still, the fact that nobody cares if a slot that has only 3 posts has been silent the same amount of time be has is funny to me.
--

Bulge, the reason I asked you the question I did is because it kind of feels like you're holding yourself back from townreading me, with all these qualifiers of "DV is a very skilled player" etc. that stop something that would otherwise be town about me from being a reason to townread me. What is your basis for being particularly concerned about my ability as scum, compared to other people?

Reads right now:

I have strong townreads on Augustus Caesar, Adorable and Aristophanes. (Ironically at one point in the game these were my placeholder scumreads. How tides turn!)

I think Creature is probably town. (Some hesitation there but I think it's the most reasonable conclusion to come to)

Xofelf and Reck again sort of land in a similar place for me of thinking they are town but things constantly come up that force me to re-evaluate these reads. So far, there is nothing that has convinced me that my townreads are wrong but these are the sorts of reads that I'm trying particularly hard not to have constantly influenced by confirmation bias. That all said, I do feel reasonably strongly about Reck being town.

Sirius I keep wanting more from but it doesn't happen. I have been partially relying on the opinions of people who are more familiar with him (and it seems these opinions have been a townread), but I personally don't have mucchhh to go off. I think probably town though? Not sure whether I'd reconsider him or xofelf first.

I think that Datisi and The Bulge are very possible scum, and right now I would lean Bulge over Datisi but it honestly keeps changing in my mind. Despite me having concerns about each of them, neither as a scumread feels totally
right
to me and I keep going back to my townreads to work out if i have something wrong and then I end up deciding my townreads are still town and the loop continues etc. etc.

BUT, Ydrasse is scum... I think. When she does put effort into the game, the effort is all in how she looks to others rather than actually trying to work the game out. I don't get the sense that she cares about that at all. Plus, with a real lack of other people in the game who I feel comfortable reading as scum, this scumread on Ydrasse feels comfortable to me. I feel good about it. Just as before, I really think we should eliminate Ydrasse today.
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Post Post #1393 (isolation #87) » Sun Feb 07, 2021 9:44 am

Post by DeasVail »

In post 1388, xRECKONERx wrote:@DV: What are the things that have come up that have forced you to re-evaluate your reads on me/xof?
Can you talk to me about why you're scumreading Datisi? I don't think you've mentioned that before
Between you and xof, I'm definitely less concerned about you and I do think some of the concern is probably silly paranoia. From you some of the stuff towards the end of Day 1 was slightly questionable to me. was a weird reaction at Datisi and I remember feeling a bit suspicious of your team-driven vote onto RCE after talking about how you believed the claim to be real (almost as if you wanted be on the wagon more than anything else) but I don't actually have strong belief in any of this. They are passing thoughts I have and I would prefer not to be judged on them.
Xofelf is a little more concerning to me sometimes. When I voted for them in was probably the best example of me having a moment of reconsideration.
Having had a quick skim through your posts and xof's posts again right now though, I still think you're probably both town. I just have ~moments~ here and there. Maybe the fact that Ari isn't posting is a reason why I don't get paranoid of him (hah), as obviously problematic as that is.

I feel like I haven't talked much about my suspicion of either Datisi nor The Bulge before, but in Datisi's case when it comes to game-solving/scumhunting it feels more reactive to events of the game that are happening than Datisi actually directing things and trying to influencing the course of the game etc. The reason for my expressed hesitation in my post though, is that I don't have any specific "content" that I scumread Datisi based on. It is mostly that I townread the rest of the game at least slightly more.
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Post Post #1394 (isolation #88) » Sun Feb 07, 2021 9:47 am

Post by DeasVail »

In post 1389, The Bulge wrote:
In post 1387, DeasVail wrote: Bulge, the reason I asked you the question I did is because it kind of feels like you're holding yourself back from townreading me, with all these qualifiers of "DV is a very skilled player" etc. that stop something that would otherwise be town about me from being a reason to townread me. What is your basis for being particularly concerned about my ability as scum, compared to other people?
disagree. there have been more posts from you that pinged me in some way than from any of my townreads. there are 3 main reasons why you are not a scumread. the way you pressured RCE is one of them, and would be the most impressive part of your play if you do flip red. but a doomed slot is a doomed slot, and I think we both come from an era of mafia where there are no holds barred when it comes to bussing a partner replacing in like that (daytalk made all the scum on this site soft!). I also really liked the way you tried to squeeze content out of creature, but with him in my top scumreads I have to consider the possibility of his buddies coming in to bail him out of a content hole. finally, painting yourself into a corner saying you will likely end up townreading me upon review was a good look for you, but these are only words. So yea, there are things holding me back, but I don't know where you get the impression that I should have you higher on my list?
Most of the posts I've seen you make have been talking about how certain things from me have been unlikely to come from scum, but tbh the dissonance between posts you've been making and your read of me is not scummy and is probably more likely from town if anything.
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Post Post #1403 (isolation #89) » Sun Feb 07, 2021 5:53 pm

Post by DeasVail »

Datisi 1387 was my reevaluation
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Post Post #1404 (isolation #90) » Sun Feb 07, 2021 5:55 pm

Post by DeasVail »

In post 1401, Aristophanes wrote:Oh yay I'm ckmpeting for lead wagon with DV who I happen to townread. That said I like the wagoners on me far less than those on DV for town.

Also, @Isis the VC lists Bulge under woting me and not voting, just fyj.

Reck's apparent murderboner for me is meh. I'll have to reread it but I guess I don't see that coming as hard from scum as it is here.

I'll reread the Bulge but honestly they're the best I have as a scumread atm. I need to reread and make sure that hilds up tho.
What about Ydrasse?
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Post Post #1407 (isolation #91) » Sun Feb 07, 2021 6:34 pm

Post by DeasVail »

In post 1405, Datisi wrote:oh
somehow after reading "ari's posts are easy to criticize" my brain just skipped ahead

ok yeah bed time for me it is

not sure how much i agree with "scum with beeboy doesn't post that" but like idk, i feel like we've gone around everyone and said whether scum with beeboy does or doesn't post something and we're not smarter after it so
I’m not resting my entire ari read on that one thing, but the comparison to xof was bizarre and complaining about one of your buddy’s being persecuted for inactivity and not [town who has actually posted content] feels like something that would not make it past the “is this worth posting?” stage of scum-thought.
I think it comes from an uninformed place.
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Post Post #1408 (isolation #92) » Sun Feb 07, 2021 6:34 pm

Post by DeasVail »

In post 1406, Sirius9121 wrote:good morning
Hi Sirius, how are you?
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Post Post #1410 (isolation #93) » Sun Feb 07, 2021 6:38 pm

Post by DeasVail »

That sounds like a great place to be right now
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Post Post #1419 (isolation #94) » Sun Feb 07, 2021 11:51 pm

Post by DeasVail »

In post 1417, Ydrasse wrote:if i had to vote btwn these two wagons right now id probably? go on deas again but looking between them is like... hmmmm

@augustus: i miss u. tell me what u think of deas's recent posting when youre here bc idk what to make of creature vs deas. lowkey i feel like describing deas as flail-y this game is like... idk about that one
Is there a reason that you're limiting yourself to choosing between two wagons? Your recent posts don't convincingly communicate to me a read on either of myself or Ari being scum. Also I note that you express frustration with Ari not being around to push against his wagon or vote somewhere else, but that's exactly what I'm doing and you're not doing anything with that.
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Post Post #1427 (isolation #95) » Mon Feb 08, 2021 8:52 am

Post by DeasVail »

In post 1422, Ydrasse wrote:but my poe is also more like, the result of townhunting than scumhunting
Your posts give off the impression that you decided your poe before even reading my or Ari’s posts
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Post Post #1441 (isolation #96) » Mon Feb 08, 2021 3:15 pm

Post by DeasVail »

I am fairly satisfied that xof is town now. Sorry about my earlier qualms xof
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Post Post #1458 (isolation #97) » Tue Feb 09, 2021 3:18 pm

Post by DeasVail »

In post 1456, Augustus Caesar wrote:
In post 1447, The Bulge wrote:hmmmmm reactions to my readslist/notespost make me nervous I'll be the nk target.
This is so contrasting to my current read on the gamestate that I'm wondering if this is scum-indicative. Can you expand on this?
Yeah I was thinking the same thing
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Post Post #1561 (isolation #98) » Tue Feb 09, 2021 7:50 pm

Post by DeasVail »

In post 1462, The Bulge wrote:
In post 1456, Augustus Caesar wrote:
In post 1447, The Bulge wrote:hmmmmm reactions to my readslist/notespost make me nervous I'll be the nk target.
This is so contrasting to my current read on the gamestate that I'm wondering if this is scum-indicative. Can you expand on this?
contrasting how?

pedit dv can answer as well
you don't seem like a nk candidate to me

(Will catch up on the rest tonight)
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Post Post #1563 (isolation #99) » Wed Feb 10, 2021 12:07 am

Post by DeasVail »

In post 1453, Creature wrote:I dunno where to go rn
Do you think I'm town?
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Post Post #1564 (isolation #100) » Wed Feb 10, 2021 12:16 am

Post by DeasVail »

In post 1499, Aristophanes wrote:
In post 1494, Ydrasse wrote:VOTE: aristophanes

skimmed for sirius in his iso after he said he was down to kill sirius which like, hypocrite here, but i just don't like ari saying it. LMAO. feels like sirius has always sort of been on the table for him which is... it feels like he's been building up to be able to vote this when it's the easiest thing that someone could do this game, wagon-wise.
What a weak as fuck vote.
I have sirius on the table because they're literally a nothing slot that doesn't look like it's going to change and I'd rather just nuke it now than have to deal with this in an ELo situation.

Also, "Ari's kinda always said they'd vote Sirius so I don't like them saying they'll do it if it is an option" is fucking dumb.

Sure, it would be easy. Maybe that's part of the appeal for a slot with as much engagement in the game as I have. Maybe I also want to nuke a slot that could totally be scumbut nodoby would ever know because they're purposefully useless?

This is dumb.
Ari this post seems very different from your other posts
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Post Post #1565 (isolation #101) » Wed Feb 10, 2021 12:17 am

Post by DeasVail »

Also also I honestly don't actually know where to vote right now

I don't feel good about any vote and I hate that
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Post Post #1597 (isolation #102) » Wed Feb 10, 2021 11:38 am

Post by DeasVail »

In post 1248, Summer Nights wrote:
In post 1246, Ydrasse wrote:VOTE: deasvail

let us ride bravely onto this wagon brothers
I keep going back to this as being a strange "uh what do I say to make me hopping onto this wagon look okay?" kind of post, especially now that it seems Ydrasse didn't actually have a read on me at this stage anyway? (interpreted from Ydrasse's later posting about me)

I am not as comfortable with it as I was before but I'm probably still preferring an Ydrasse elim here.

Would settle for Sirius as policy but it feels lazy.

I still think Ari is town. I don't think the lack of reads is an especially scummy thing because Ari-scum would know that that's what people want. I can't see the disappearance from the thread as AI at all. I could be wrong and I don't think Ari has done much to progress the town, as such, but I have difficulty seeing it as scum.
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Post Post #1598 (isolation #103) » Wed Feb 10, 2021 11:39 am

Post by DeasVail »

In post 1596, Aristophanes wrote:I could ass them to my slots to iso but I have a feeling they're going to come out as town.
Ari I don't know what this means.
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Post Post #1621 (isolation #104) » Wed Feb 10, 2021 3:22 pm

Post by DeasVail »

In post 1618, Aristophanes wrote:
In post 1617, xofelf wrote:Sure, what's up?

What don't you like?
I've been talking with the team and well, I tihnk we've landed on an Ydrasse townread. Her posts are just too laid back in a lot of ways to be coming from scum, almost as if she's not worried about how she looks.

I get that she's a lot of filler fluff but there's also a lot there to work with and I don't think this is a game where filler fluff is a good idea for scum. I just don't really see it after looking at it with this in mind.
Ari I would argue that a lot of her posts actually seem very focused on how she looks.

Why don’t you think filler fluff is good for scum?
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Post Post #1622 (isolation #105) » Wed Feb 10, 2021 3:23 pm

Post by DeasVail »

Like, that’s the whole point of most of her posts. How many of her posts are about finding scum/town and how many are to look a certain way?
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Post Post #1632 (isolation #106) » Wed Feb 10, 2021 4:09 pm

Post by DeasVail »

Ari, you mentioned that your team had landed on a Ydrasse townread together, yet most of your posts since then refer to your thoughts specifically. Is there anything additional that your team has said about a Ydrasse townread? I ask because your points seem more reactionary against suspicion on Ydrasse rather than reason why Ydrasse is town.
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Post Post #1634 (isolation #107) » Wed Feb 10, 2021 6:10 pm

Post by DeasVail »

Thanks for the response Ari. It makes sense to me and I actually agree with your approach. I prefer the idea of integrating the team's reads with one's own and having a united approach rather than "x said this, y said this", as you point out.

I disagree with the Ydrasse townread, both because of how my own read differs and I don't think the reasons presented for her being town are very good ones. But I think you are town.

--

I had been unsure of the Ydrasse scumread but Xof/Cephrir scumreading her also and posting about it has given me new life and I feel positive about this direction once again! I have tried my best to find reason to scumread Ari, and attempted to challenge my own townread, but honestly I am coming up short and I just can't convince myself that Ari is scum.
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Post Post #1635 (isolation #108) » Wed Feb 10, 2021 6:17 pm

Post by DeasVail »

Datisi!

I need to know what your read of Ydrasse is. You've expressed light suspicion of her throughout but I can't find any solid opinion from a quick look through.

I also am brewing a scumread on you! At this point I see Ydrasse/you as the most likely remaining scum
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Post Post #1702 (isolation #109) » Thu Feb 11, 2021 10:19 am

Post by DeasVail »

In post 1675, Augustus Caesar wrote:
In post 1669, Ydrasse wrote:
In post 1665, Datisi wrote:WHY is it tanking??? WHY does it feel like every single game relevant thought you put into this thread was pulled out of your ass 3 seconds earlier without any cohesion whatsoever????
because this is the second vote you’ve made on me now and the first one fucking sucked and here you are again back on board datisi that’s why

i’m literally playing on my fucking 15 min break and don’t exactly have time to go back and hard reread and i’ve been trying my best to get back into a game to be helpful
This post is incredibly towny. Reason being is that the anger behind this post is solely due to Datisi incorrectly scumreading Ydrasse. Ydrasse does not get mad about this if Datisi simply has a correct scumread. She
does
get mad about this if she's frustrated at Datisi continuing to incorrectly read her (or be scum pushing her).

Scum can be frustrated if they think the push is unfair or based on bad reasons. but Ydrasse isn't even talking about any reasons, she's just frustrated about the push itself because she knows it's wrong

Basically, the self-righteousness is really towny

and I don't think Ydrasse has ever faked this kind of thing as scum
I want to trust your judgement here but I don't see that kind of post from Ydrasse as town posting. From my perspective, it's a very easy "put emotion into my posts!" way of looking town, especially for someone who is attracting townreads because of that.

Ydrasse knows that her posting at the end of day 1 was the thing that people townread most, so why
wouldn't
she continue that kind of posting.

Like, sure it could be town, but it could so easily be scum trying to look genuine and town.
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Post Post #1703 (isolation #110) » Thu Feb 11, 2021 10:25 am

Post by DeasVail »

UNVOTE:
VOTE: The Bulge
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Post Post #1709 (isolation #111) » Thu Feb 11, 2021 12:16 pm

Post by DeasVail »

Who are you?

hah never mind
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Post Post #1710 (isolation #112) » Thu Feb 11, 2021 12:18 pm

Post by DeasVail »

But yes I can see that I’m not getting far with the ydrasse thing right now and would be satisfied enough with a bulge vote.

My scumpool right now is Bulge/Datisi/Ydrasse. I townread everyone else.
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Post Post #1711 (isolation #113) » Thu Feb 11, 2021 12:20 pm

Post by DeasVail »

(I don’t actually think Datisi works that well as scum with either bulge or Ydrasse so that’s probably a “if one of my townreads is wrong” sort of scenario)
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Post Post #1716 (isolation #114) » Thu Feb 11, 2021 4:10 pm

Post by DeasVail »

In post 1714, The Bulge wrote:or feel free to like drop in and leave a reason or like anything else associated with the vote, @literally everyone but hectic
I don’t really have much of a reason, unfortunately. I am aware it’s frustrating though
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Post Post #1827 (isolation #115) » Fri Feb 12, 2021 4:43 pm

Post by DeasVail »

UNVOTE: The Bulge

Will be here properly within a few hours.
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Post Post #1828 (isolation #116) » Fri Feb 12, 2021 4:49 pm

Post by DeasVail »

VOTE: Datisi

I know this is probably unpopular but it’s where my head is at. I would want either Ydrasse or Datisi elim’d today.

I will make a comprehensive post explaining my thoughts soon.
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Post Post #1846 (isolation #117) » Fri Feb 12, 2021 7:51 pm

Post by DeasVail »

I am aware of the result on Datisi yeah.

I will have a write-up for my Creatute read tonight. Apologies for the delay
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Post Post #1848 (isolation #118) » Sat Feb 13, 2021 12:52 am

Post by DeasVail »

okay I am way more short on time than I thought I would be and this sucks but I'm going to do my best to be quick
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Post Post #1849 (isolation #119) » Sat Feb 13, 2021 1:03 am

Post by DeasVail »

Okay regarding Creature, I have (obviously) throughout the game had many periods of doubt about him but I keep coming back to a townread and I think I'm staying there.

I don't think I'm going to be able to perfectly explain my Creature read right now as it is a read I feel like I have solidly come to as the game has gone on but there's just so much stuff he has posted that I would find totally strange to come from scum.

For example, so much of Creature's ISO is about how DGB thinks me/xofelf are scum. It's beyond tired! It's so old that it's made a trendy comeback five times already. It honestly just looks... terrible. First it's deferring all responsibility of a read to a teammate which i feel like is the kind of thing people would easily latch onto, and secondly the fact that it's a repeated thing also just incites negative emotions (in me at least). But the problem is I don't think any of it is more likely to come from scum and could totally see this coming from Creature town where he's a bit lost in the gamestate and DGB is probably not completely engaged in the game but has these reads that it was passionate about early on and is just sticking by them. It is a world that I can see and hear and even taste!

I thought was very towny because it's exactly how I expect Creature-town to feel there.

These are to me more recent solid examples where I see Creature post things that I think scum would stop themselves from posting because they look bad but in fact they actually align with how I expect Creature-town to be thinking and it just makes sense to me in a weird way.
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Post Post #1853 (isolation #120) » Sat Feb 13, 2021 1:13 am

Post by DeasVail »

I don't even know what to say about Datisi honestly and I don't have anything with the strength or oomph to be able to convince anyone right now and I don't know if I'll be able to do it before we actually need to eliminate someone but the read on Datisi comes as I grow stronger townreads on everyone else and Datisi just.... sits there, not convincing me that he is town. Datisi has a lot of posts but I don't actually find myself convinced that those posts are to serve much purpose or actually go anywhere. I find this really prominent in a lot of Datisi's posts about Ydrasse whee Datisi has described a lot of suspicion for Ydrasse over the course of the game and asked her questions etc. but there is very little movement or action on that read.

Despite a lot of posts and words I do not get the sense from Datisi that there is actually much effort being put into sorting reads. For the longest time, me, Ydrasse, Ari and Bulge all seemed to be in this soup of yeetable slots for Datisi and it seemed the vote would change dependent on the feelz but not much more than that. Apart from all the posts about Ydrasse, has there actually been much evidence of attempt to sort the other slots? Or evidence that Datisi is actually thinking about them or caring about his reads on these slots?

And hey, maybe Datisi-town doesn't actually care who is elminated at this point and is willing to let whoever go, but then how can he have a problem with me thinking he might be scum (or "preparing" for him to be yeetable, as I think he said something like that at least). If someone as town is having an off game or not really into it, I don't really expect it to be a surprise if they're not townread by everyone. People confuse apathy with scum a lot.

That's the best explanation I can come up with of my vague thoughts that I actually feel alright about especially since I have a lot of townreads right now that I feel solace in and even though this game feels at a stalling point I feel positive about its future.
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Post Post #1854 (isolation #121) » Sat Feb 13, 2021 1:13 am

Post by DeasVail »

I very much doubt I vote for anyone but Datisi or Ydrasse
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Post Post #1855 (isolation #122) » Sat Feb 13, 2021 1:15 am

Post by DeasVail »

In post 1850, Creature wrote:
In post 1828, DeasVail wrote:VOTE: Datisi

I know this is probably unpopular but it’s where my head is at. I would want either Ydrasse or Datisi elim’d today.

I will make a comprehensive post explaining my thoughts soon.
Datisi is a terrible idea. She can't be scum unless she was the one who killed petapan.
I don't think this is logically solid reasoning.

I feel like it's safe to assume that there's a 50% chance that any particular remaining scum member killed petapan?
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Post Post #1859 (isolation #123) » Sat Feb 13, 2021 1:17 am

Post by DeasVail »

In post 1856, Datisi wrote:scum stalling the clock out, got it.
I don't think you believe this
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Post Post #1861 (isolation #124) » Sat Feb 13, 2021 1:22 am

Post by DeasVail »

Who are the viable votes for me Datisi?

I am not going to vote Ari or Creature
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Post Post #1909 (isolation #125) » Sat Feb 13, 2021 11:51 am

Post by DeasVail »

Ugh, I don’t know where the vote count is at but I’m town and this has actually been one of the most enjoyable games for me where I’ve felt more engaged than I have been in a game for quite a while so as much as it’s an AtE-like thing to say I would be disappointed if I were eliminated here!

I also think the thoughts on my approach to the RCE-slot don’t make much sense because why would I push him so hard as soon as he replaced in and then unvote after a silly claim? (Maybe so that I could say that, whatever)

Spoiler: Final reads with detailed explanations
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Post Post #1912 (isolation #126) » Sat Feb 13, 2021 11:52 am

Post by DeasVail »

In post 1908, Creature wrote:Quick check at Ari's scumgames, these indicate fairly strongly that Ari is town here.
I agree with you!

VOTE: Ydrasse
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Post Post #1920 (isolation #127) » Sat Feb 13, 2021 3:08 pm

Post by DeasVail »

Hectic I know I’m town and there are really limited options for scum imo.

I don’t think Ari is scum.

Datisi and Ydrasse are honestly the least obvtown slots left in the game.
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Post Post #1979 (isolation #128) » Sat Feb 13, 2021 4:13 pm

Post by DeasVail »

I’m VT
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Post Post #1984 (isolation #129) » Sat Feb 13, 2021 4:16 pm

Post by DeasVail »

I know I’m going to sound like I’m off my rocker but the main thing I’d like people to keep in mind if I die is I think Datisi is massively over-townread here and I hate that there’s a psychologist inno on him because I think he’s a serious contender for scum.

Also if I’m going to be eliminated here I would hate it to be for nothing and as dead town I would ask for my reads to please be at least be taken into account
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Post Post #1985 (isolation #130) » Sat Feb 13, 2021 4:17 pm

Post by DeasVail »

I also really don’t want to just be let go because I’m a VT
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Post Post #1987 (isolation #131) » Sat Feb 13, 2021 4:18 pm

Post by DeasVail »

Please everyone vote Ydrasse
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Post Post #1991 (isolation #132) » Sat Feb 13, 2021 4:23 pm

Post by DeasVail »

In post 1972, Augustus Caesar wrote:Deas's reaction towards these late stages gives me hope though. There's not much of an attempt to townspew or reason as I feel there should be for TEAM MAFIA. Like, he's got nothing to lose, why not just go all out
What the fuck is this?
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Post Post #1994 (isolation #133) » Sat Feb 13, 2021 4:26 pm

Post by DeasVail »

I don’t know, I don’t have much to say. As scum id be going all out but it’s the middle of the day and I have other things I’m doing and I feel like I need to do something to stop myself from dying here but I don’t know what that is and the main thing I’m worried about honestly is being wrong about my townread on ari and looking like an idiot but I seriously think he’s town and am also worried that people will elim him and we’ll lose the great start we had I guess
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Post Post #1996 (isolation #134) » Sat Feb 13, 2021 4:28 pm

Post by DeasVail »

In post 1993, Augustus Caesar wrote:Basically, idk if it's not the type of player you are, but there wasn't a lot of frustration or you getting annoyed at people pushing you, and not much of an attempt to AtE, even while you're the only wagon at the closing stages. I find that scummy in a vacuum
Eh. I’m not really that emotionally invested in the end
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Post Post #1998 (isolation #135) » Sat Feb 13, 2021 4:28 pm

Post by DeasVail »

I’m just trying to do the right thing and play to win
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Post Post #2010 (isolation #136) » Sat Feb 13, 2021 4:37 pm

Post by DeasVail »

Okay I know that eliminating me at this point seems like a foregone conclusion for some but I will prove myself as town somehow in the coming days. I don’t know how that’ll be but I want to be a slot that is widely townread and an easy exclusion from poe. Not whatever this is.

Hectic I think the main difference between my scum and towngames is that scum is more of a PERFORMANCE for me. Some scum games I don’t have much motivation and struggle with activity (which I also do as town sometimes) but in a game like this I would be trying to BLEED TOWN in every post I make.

I don’t know if I have a scumrange really because my town game is generally more understated and I can come up with content pretty easily as scum imo

(I think from an outside perspective someone might have an idea of my scumrange but it’s honestly been so long since I’ve played a proper game as scum)
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Post Post #2013 (isolation #137) » Sat Feb 13, 2021 4:44 pm

Post by DeasVail »

The fact that it did nothing for you is probably a sign
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Post Post #2024 (isolation #138) » Sat Feb 13, 2021 4:56 pm

Post by DeasVail »

I am able to change my vote as needed any time up until deadline, if that’s a concern
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Post Post #2025 (isolation #139) » Sat Feb 13, 2021 4:58 pm

Post by DeasVail »

I am hesitating here because I did have some adorable paranoia but I did strongly townread her so I want to see what she says here
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Post Post #2040 (isolation #140) » Sat Feb 13, 2021 6:07 pm

Post by DeasVail »

VOTE: Sirius
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Post Post #2041 (isolation #141) » Sat Feb 13, 2021 6:08 pm

Post by DeasVail »

I am actually very okay with this
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Post Post #2049 (isolation #142) » Sat Feb 13, 2021 6:17 pm

Post by DeasVail »

I think as scum I decide to get onto the beeboy wagon before replace-in because I would predict that people would wait for a replacement and so why not get free townpoints?
After replace in I think I could hard-bus RCE if I was feeling hardcore but honestly I’d probably feel bad about giving RCE-buddy no chance upon replacing in so I’d probably be more likely to just find a reason to hard townread and go all in on that? I probably either hard bus or hard tr because I’d figure that a wishy-washy approach to the slot would look bad for me and so I would avoid that.
Obviously a lot of this is speculation but I’m trying to channel what I’d do as scum.

The concept of a scumrange is odd to me because there are things that would be MORE about me as scum and other things that would be less. It’s more of a “I’m different as scum” thing rather than less of anything.

For example,

Me-scum under pressure: “must survive survive survive no matter what the cost I’ll do ANYTHING”

Me-town under pressure: “eh it’s town’s fault for misreading me ultimately”

Obviously hyperbole but you get the idea
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Post Post #2051 (isolation #143) » Sat Feb 13, 2021 6:20 pm

Post by DeasVail »

In post 2047, The Bulge wrote:if the game comes down to digging up deepwolves, look at hectic. if I had more motivation to put in work and less premonition of my imminent death, I'd be looking into a hectic/creature back pocket apocalypse solve.
I thought that hectic was town for when he desperately tried to find logical reasons to support his gut scum read on me. Felt very town
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Post Post #2052 (isolation #144) » Sat Feb 13, 2021 6:20 pm

Post by DeasVail »

In post 2050, Aristophanes wrote:Oh we're back on Sirius for like the 3rd time today?

Neat. I feel like hes far more difficult to lim than he should be tbh
This is actually a good point
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Post Post #2055 (isolation #145) » Sat Feb 13, 2021 6:22 pm

Post by DeasVail »

You can just assume I’ve flipped VT and use the information from that now if you want?
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Post Post #2179 (isolation #146) » Tue Feb 16, 2021 9:41 am

Post by DeasVail »

DATISI I’M SORRY
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Post Post #2180 (isolation #147) » Tue Feb 16, 2021 9:45 am

Post by DeasVail »

I think we should...

I started this post and then got distracted and I don’t actually know what I was going to say.

Damn!

Anyway I’m planning on reconsidering a few reads because there’s at least someone (maybe two people) I’ve been wrong on.

This will include Ari.
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Post Post #2185 (isolation #148) » Tue Feb 16, 2021 9:50 am

Post by DeasVail »

Stubborn yet sympathetic is not something I would be concerned by imo
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Post Post #2201 (isolation #149) » Tue Feb 16, 2021 12:01 pm

Post by DeasVail »

In post 2199, Augustus Caesar wrote:(I know Deas had already claimed previously)
Oh?

(Not that I think the chaos was necessarily a bad thing either though. I don’t feel the need to be overly precious about claims etc)
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Post Post #2205 (isolation #150) » Tue Feb 16, 2021 2:08 pm

Post by DeasVail »

I disagree with leashing as a concept in most cases, so yeah no
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Post Post #2234 (isolation #151) » Thu Feb 18, 2021 12:33 am

Post by DeasVail »

In post 2223, Augustus Caesar wrote:Deas, how do you read Ydrasse now?
I think the best way to describe my feelings is that my Ydrasse read is on standby while I reevaluate my reads. Your townread on Ydrasse is a big part of my not necessarily scumreading her currently and I really need to look at where I might be wrong in my other reads before blindly trying to push an Ydrasse elim through because "sure she might be scum" today.

I will have the time to be able to properly consider my reads tomorrow afternoon (my time) and I expect that I will have a much better idea of where I'm at then.

For now I am pretty sure Augustus, Adorable, Xofelf and Bulge are off the table for me, but my reads on everyone else feel less "updated" and I need to reevaluate.
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Post Post #2264 (isolation #152) » Thu Feb 18, 2021 11:26 am

Post by DeasVail »

In post 2240, Augustus Caesar wrote:
In post 2234, DeasVail wrote:For now I am pretty sure Augustus, Adorable, Xofelf and Bulge are off the table for me, but my reads on everyone else feel less "updated" and I need to reevaluate.
I'm very happy you agree with me on these slots ftr. If you can trust in my Ydrasse-read, this day should be a lot less chaotic and make a lot more sense if we focus efforts on the slots that actually contain scum.

Right now, I'm wagering it's Creature + 1 of Ari/Reck.
Based on what I remember about the game and your post on Creature I think I would agree to a Creature elim today but he is someone who I’ve gone back and forth on so much this game and I want to take a proper re-look at him before committing to that.
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Post Post #2273 (isolation #153) » Fri Feb 19, 2021 12:30 am

Post by DeasVail »

I haven't had as much time as I was hoping for today but I've looked over Creature and something I'm interested in discussing:
- Why is Creature as scum the first to unvote me from E-1 Day 2? (Switching to Adorable who I think would b a very unlikely elim from scum's PoV) It's the start of what made my elim wagon no longer viable for Day 2 and seems like an unnecessary risk for scum. Creature certainly wouldn't have been immune to a quick wagon and I probably would not have been considered the sort of person by scum that could just be eliminated later. (I would also suggest that a Creature scumflip would make me very unlikely to be scum but that could be a matter of opinion. At the very least, I think Creature-scum probably thinks that if he flips before I do then I'm much harder to miselim.
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Post Post #2318 (isolation #154) » Sat Feb 20, 2021 12:42 am

Post by DeasVail »

I had a very busy today but I’ll look at Ari again tomorrow
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Post Post #2344 (isolation #155) » Sun Feb 21, 2021 12:15 am

Post by DeasVail »

VOTE: Creature

I think this is where I will go.

I wish I had logical/sensible things to say and maybe if I have more energy later I will but the gist of it is that from a glance over Reck, Ari and Creature, I feel most comfortable with Creature as scum. I think my thoughts are similar to Hectic in that they're all over the place but idk in reading again there's just this sense I get that Creature's posting seems the least "real" of the three. Even the most recent block of "why can't it be adorable + xofelf?" and "not sure if Ari flips scum" is clearly just so at odds with the current gamestate and there's just no sense that Creature actually cares about the fact. I'm at the point where I have less belief in why I've previously townread Creature and I'm thinking hey, maybe I was right when I thought that Creature was scum.

I am by no means sure that Ari is town, or that Reck is town, but there are still things there that give me pause and so I would like Creature to be the way for today

(I know the post isn't very convincing, particularly as an anti-Ari wagon post but I haven't been able to form words about it that make total sense yet)
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Post Post #2362 (isolation #156) » Sun Feb 21, 2021 10:22 am

Post by DeasVail »

In post 2348, Augustus Caesar wrote:Image

Ah, let's get settled in to another day of Hectic mostly talking to Augustus Caesar. I'm looking forward to it.

Hey, Deas, Bulge:
In post 2010, DeasVail wrote:Okay I know that eliminating me at this point seems like a foregone conclusion for some but I will prove myself as town somehow in the coming days. I don’t know how that’ll be but I want to be a slot that is widely townread and an easy exclusion from poe. Not whatever this is.
In post 2221, The Bulge wrote:we're solving this game today people, we're in a fantastic position for it. keep an eye out for thread momentum crashers. I need to read read read this weekend but I'm gonna try to be here as often as I can promoting workflow but at this pace apathy will be our undoing almost certainly
The purpose of me bringing up these quotes isn't to shade, but to remind you of that earlier WIM and PROMISE you two believed in. We can solve this today, let's just put the work in.
This post is completely fair. And I will do my best to do a big dive tonight. The fact that I haven't done it yet is totally life getting in the way and NAI.

It would take A LOT for me to read xofelf as scum here. I had a moment of reconsideration there when I voted them but that reconsideration has pointed me strongly to xofelf being town.

And Hectic, I was having a similar thought last night that if we trust in our collective townreads then this game is solved. Of course, there is always going to be paranoia there, but I would be pretty confident in all of xofelf, bulge, adorable being town. And I'm happy to consider Ydrasse town as well while you strongly townread her.
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Post Post #2394 (isolation #157) » Mon Feb 22, 2021 1:26 am

Post by DeasVail »

In post 2393, Creature wrote:
In post 2392, xofelf wrote:but it doesn't quite feel like the same sort of lethargy the game is having
Lethargy?

We have just mislynched, I'm about to get mislynched and looks like there are two other mislynches on the line. All because someone probably has their head very up their ass.
this sounds more sure of your reads than what you've expressed up until now
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Post Post #2395 (isolation #158) » Mon Feb 22, 2021 1:41 am

Post by DeasVail »

In post 747, Creature wrote:DGB just gave me the green light on lynching RCE
In post 749, Creature wrote:
In post 734, DeasVail wrote:VOTE: RCEnigma

I’m fine if people want to wait and see more, but I think I’ve seen enough to be comfortable with an elimination here
Me too, but I don't want to end up being pressured all day tomorrow and feel unable to scumhunt due to that wagon
In reading through Creature these posts (made after I say RCE is scum and vote him) feel significant. Particularly because despite saying this, Creature then proceeds to suggest an Ari wagon and start attacking me because of my suspicion on RCE.

It's the sort of thing that I find to be strange from both scum and town and so it could be worth talking about.

I still can't convince myself away from Creature today (and am especially unmotivated re: wagoning Ari) but I have enough uncertainty to be keen to discuss things.
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Post Post #2419 (isolation #159) » Mon Feb 22, 2021 9:53 am

Post by DeasVail »

In post 2406, xRECKONERx wrote:
In post 2401, Augustus Caesar wrote:VOTE: Creature
for the love of fucking god
I'm trying to understand your issue here
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Post Post #2421 (isolation #160) » Mon Feb 22, 2021 10:45 am

Post by DeasVail »

Who else do you think is scum?
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Post Post #2426 (isolation #161) » Mon Feb 22, 2021 4:15 pm

Post by DeasVail »

I do wonder if a compromise on Creature would be possible
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Post Post #2460 (isolation #162) » Tue Feb 23, 2021 10:01 am

Post by DeasVail »

In post 2441, Creature wrote:I'll probably just ignore what the fucking ever everyone else is saying and go:

VOTE: xRECKONERx
Based on the gamestate rn this was always probably going to be the most likely alternative to you. Not sure why you’re acting like it’s so controversial
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Post Post #2462 (isolation #163) » Tue Feb 23, 2021 10:03 am

Post by DeasVail »

A mass claim doesn’t achieve much at all for town right now
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Post Post #2468 (isolation #164) » Tue Feb 23, 2021 10:09 am

Post by DeasVail »

In post 2466, Creature wrote:Last I remember we had it down to Ari, Ado and me.
Adorable I don’t think was ever a serious elim contender. Momentum was shifting away from Ari. Reck is in a lot of PoEs and generally not a strong townread for people.
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Post Post #2470 (isolation #165) » Tue Feb 23, 2021 10:11 am

Post by DeasVail »

Mason is just confirmed town. I am not that worried
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Post Post #2477 (isolation #166) » Tue Feb 23, 2021 10:16 am

Post by DeasVail »

I think xofelf is the only person in the game with a solid townread on Reck

PEdit: I dont think massclaim is a terrible thing that must be avoided at all costs. I just don’t see the advantage for town.
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Post Post #2479 (isolation #167) » Tue Feb 23, 2021 10:16 am

Post by DeasVail »

Yeah what Hectic said
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Post Post #2526 (isolation #168) » Tue Feb 23, 2021 11:12 pm

Post by DeasVail »

In post 2501, Augustus Caesar wrote:Happy Birthday, Deas!

I haven't had the pleasure of playing with you before but I want you to know that I love your playstyle and really appreciate your presence in this game. You're a super chill and rational guy, and I even thought you were scummy for the lack of anger you showed when I was pushing you, but it just turns out you're a nice dude. I'd love to play with you again in future games after this one.

Have a good one!

Image
Thank you so much! It is a pleasant surprise to hear this as I very much feel like a shadow of my former self when it comes to mafia, but I have really enjoyed playing with you too and will look out for your name when I play future games.
In post 2505, Augustus Caesar wrote:Me? I played last years and came in gimmick posting and got scumread for it lol. And then I started being stilted and awkward and was a wagon for most the day(as town). Things worked out though and we launched scum day 1 and day 2, and the final one day 6. I survived. I mostly had fun other than day 1.

I'm very happy to in this one and I've had loads of fun, it's just been a little stressful too recently knowing I'm the one kinda directing things and a lot of blame will be on me if I get this wrong. I do feel good about Creature but the
what ifs
are stressing me out
I don't like the blame game at all when it comes to these things! I just want to say that I have been grateful for and admired the effort you've put into this day phase and I largely agree with your reads have ended up. I think the main point of difference on our reads is that I would swap Ydrasse for Ari but other than that we are pretty aligned.

I don't feel confident about Creature's responses coming from scum but I can't bring myself to push another elim.
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Post Post #2527 (isolation #169) » Tue Feb 23, 2021 11:12 pm

Post by DeasVail »

I realise that makes me sound less eager about a Creature elim than I am. I just... self-doubt
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Post Post #2548 (isolation #170) » Wed Feb 24, 2021 3:21 pm

Post by DeasVail »

The hammer is the only convincing point imo.

I don’t believe anything else to be alignment-relevant and I don’t actually get the impression that you believe in the read all that much either?
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Post Post #2549 (isolation #171) » Wed Feb 24, 2021 3:23 pm

Post by DeasVail »

Essentially picking apart xofelf’s posts in component parts to analyse does not feel like something that would be considered useful. It kind of comes across to me as a way to try and communicate investment in your read but there’s clearly a lack of investment there.
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Post Post #2554 (isolation #172) » Thu Feb 25, 2021 10:48 am

Post by DeasVail »

In post 2553, Adorable wrote:Looking at Creature's post I see he is suspecting xofelf and I have also been suspecting them which was already explained. It also looks like xofelf is playing careful and cautious.
Does this have any effect on your read of Creature?
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Post Post #2562 (isolation #173) » Thu Feb 25, 2021 2:26 pm

Post by DeasVail »

Ari, who do you see Ydrasse as scum with if not Creature?

Why do you not like a Ydrasse/Creature scumteam?
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Post Post #2585 (isolation #174) » Sat Feb 27, 2021 10:59 pm

Post by DeasVail »

I am going to be busy for the next 24-48 hours but I will be spending the next few days really poring over everything and trying to make sense of the game. I have an idea of where I will want things to go this day but I don't want to make the same mistake as I did with Creature in pushing an elim just because it's what made sense based on my surface level approach to reading the game.
Apologies for not having anything right away but I will have a lot more words in the coming days.
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Post Post #2587 (isolation #175) » Sun Feb 28, 2021 10:58 am

Post by DeasVail »

Also should we massclaim y/n?
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Post Post #2591 (isolation #176) » Sun Feb 28, 2021 11:39 am

Post by DeasVail »

I can confirm that I am a VT
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Post Post #2600 (isolation #177) » Mon Mar 01, 2021 8:54 am

Post by DeasVail »

I thought a massclaim would be a good idea today because I’d rather not risk waiting until an eliminate-town-and-lose situation to massclaim.
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Post Post #2603 (isolation #178) » Mon Mar 01, 2021 9:42 pm

Post by DeasVail »

I am now ready to start my re-reading and attempts to solve the game! I don't know how much I'll get through right now but we'll see how far it goes I guess.

Aristophanes


I... don't think that Aristophanes is scum. I don't remember finding any of the suspicion or cases on him very convincing, and in going back to read his posts, I still can't come to any conclusion other than town.

I stand by my early thoughts on Ari which I posted in .

There was a void in which Ari barely posted at all but I do not think that is alignment-indicative.

And there are lots of more recent posts that I think are quite indicative of town rather than scum.

--> I think that the appeals to Reck to reconsider his scumread on Ari are indicative of town. Examples: , - I may have missed some but essentially there's this theme of Ari not really knowing how to read Reck and thinking he might be town but also knowing that if Reck is town then Reck is terribly wrong about Ari's alignment and derailing the game because of it. It makes sense as a town thought, plus the repeated way in which Ari appeals to Reck to reconsider looks earnest to me. I struggle to explain exactly why but I would expect Ari as scum to do it differently, for there to be something more awkward about it. I could see scum just ignoring the tunnel and being all "yeah whatever, I'm not bothered by this!" or something more performative, but the way Ari reaches out to Reck is just how I would expect Ari to try and do what he thinks is the right thing and try to convince people that he's town. As scum, I don't think Ari would expect that the above linked posts would achieve anything whatsoever, but when you're town, you think what you say counts for something, that maybe people will listen.

--> Response to his impending elimination:
- - Of all the things to post, Jingle scumreading Hectic is so low-yield as scum that I would be surprised by Ari-scum posting it, especially since it actually is followed up by actual content. If the plan was to do an aesthetically pleasing post such as then the weird thing about Hectic being scum is kind of unnecessary from scum. But does make a lot of sense from town who thinks there's a deepwolf (seems to be what the cool kids call it nowadays) that will get missed by the town. Obviously a lot of this stuff is fakeable. I expect scum under pressure to come up with content. I expect them to do things in an attempt to look town, but the combination of the hectic scumread and BIGPOST feels like a weird combo from scum just because I think they would either take one approach or the other.
- & - I actually think the defeatism from Ari here is pretty town. Just think, if Ari were scum, there would still be many potential miselim options. People were getting to the point where they were looking at
everyone
squinty-eyed. Adorable, xofelf, me, Reck. Not many people were immune to suspicion. Maybe only Hectic and Bulge. So it can't be scum feeling truly defeated because they wouldn't feel defeated there. Ari had just had people commenting on how his response to pressure was town and momentum was shifting towards Creature. BUT I can see town-Ari feeling frustrated that people keep suspecting him and truly thinking that his elim would need to happen in order to progress the game. Whilst I believe scum-Ari feels increasing confidence there after fighting off his elim, town-Ari still has no idea who scum is and thinks it's only a matter of time before people consider him again.

There are other little things that reinforce my read of Ari but I think those are the two main umbrella points that most convinced me when reading through Ari's ISO again. I think it's highly unlikely that I consider voting Ari out, but of course I will be prepared to listen to disagreements. Apologies if I didn't explain where I'm at very well but I do feel quite confident in Ari being town.
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Post Post #2609 (isolation #179) » Tue Mar 02, 2021 3:14 pm

Post by DeasVail »

I don’t have the time right now to go into massive detail as to why, but reckoner I don’t think your representation of my read on Ari is very accurate. Though, I also understand why someone would not be convinced by it. I think the interactions around beeboy/RCE are lightly concerning by themselves, though I also think the beeboy/xofelf comparison is super strange from scum with beeboy.

I think what you’ve pointed out about Ari’s opening post *looks bad* but I don’t really agree that it’s more likely from scum? I was surprised by the flip too and easily could have said as such.
I also feel quite fence-sitty at the moment and I actually feel quite similar about Ydrasse. I’m coming around to the thought that I want to elim her today but I am not certain about it by any means.
So yeah, I get what you’re saying about ari but when it comes down to it they’re also thoughts that I sort of expect town to be having right now
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Post Post #2652 (isolation #180) » Thu Mar 04, 2021 9:22 am

Post by DeasVail »

In post 2645, Aristophanes wrote:Because it's the proper thing to do today and it's stalling so pushing on it.
Love it Ari :)

I do still think it’s what we should do too. It leaves no more excuses, no more uncertainty. Everyone will be on the same page.
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Post Post #2654 (isolation #181) » Thu Mar 04, 2021 9:51 am

Post by DeasVail »

In post 2653, xRECKONERx wrote:
In post 2651, Aristophanes wrote:And thank you

Popcorn to xof
why are you directing the claim I don't fucking get this
Why not?

The uprising of people who have been wagoned to E-1 GOGOGO
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Post Post #2655 (isolation #182) » Thu Mar 04, 2021 9:52 am

Post by DeasVail »

In post 2653, xRECKONERx wrote:
In post 2651, Aristophanes wrote:And thank you

Popcorn to xof
why are you directing the claim I don't fucking get this
I guess the more important question is do you think he does this as scum?
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Post Post #2695 (isolation #183) » Sat Mar 06, 2021 8:34 pm

Post by DeasVail »

I’ll be here to work through things later tonight
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Post Post #2696 (isolation #184) » Sat Mar 06, 2021 11:15 pm

Post by DeasVail »

In post 2660, Aristophanes wrote:DV, Reck, I'm guessing you missed that error of mine?
I did! I forgot whether Ydrasse had claimed or not and sort of had assumed that she would be a VT claim
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Post Post #2697 (isolation #185) » Sat Mar 06, 2021 11:18 pm

Post by DeasVail »

In post 2676, Aristophanes wrote:
In post 2672, Ydrasse wrote:i am vt, ari, where did you think i claimed at?
Honestly I don't know. I just thought you had claimed VT already.

The following I had redacted earlier:
"Honestly I wasn't expecting the mason claim from you xof, I was wrong. But this is good shit and takes one more slot out of consideration. It makes a lot of sense with your play

It's Adorable/Ydrasse but we need the final claim."

I'll chat with the team here but the claims make Bulge's seem legit and I really thought Reck was the mason but he's town regardless. DV is strongly town and Xof is obvtown. For me it has to be Adorable/Ydrasse.
When I was looking for mason I had also narrowed it down to reck or xof and thought it was reck because of the early "gut-town" read from Datisi.

What makes you sure Reck is town though? I was wondering if it could be Ydrasse/Reck
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Post Post #2698 (isolation #186) » Sat Mar 06, 2021 11:23 pm

Post by DeasVail »

Ydrasse > Reck > Adorable > Ari

is my order of most likely scum
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Post Post #2699 (isolation #187) » Sat Mar 06, 2021 11:33 pm

Post by DeasVail »

In my world where Reck was mason I was actually kind of confused because I had Ydrasse/Bulge as the most likely scumteam (yep it was that bad), so in some ways xof being mason opening up Ydrasse/Reck sort of makes me feel much better? I don't think anyone will appreciate the difference it makes for me but I feel clearer now
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Post Post #2701 (isolation #188) » Sat Mar 06, 2021 11:56 pm

Post by DeasVail »

One of my bigger reasons for suspecting Reck is that during Day 1 there were many posts like this where he makes explicit references to his team's involvement. For example, securing their assistance in reading Hectic, and talk of his team yelling at him for various things.

Example: Reason for changing vote to RCE.
In post 1002, xRECKONERx wrote:eh okay, having it pointed out that i'm falling for "too scummy to be scum" + having my team yelling ab the claim being bad is enough.

VOTE: RCE

if this flips town though i s2g i've got some fucking receipts to bring tomorrow
The difference between then and now is quite... apparent? I don't expect teams to necessarily be super involved. Throughout the team mafias I have participated in I have seen everything from extensive team involvement to nothing whatsoever. And I do expect that there will be changes in team involvement throughout a game but from having his team "yelling" at Reck about various things to..... hardly anything seems a bit odd. Because Day 1 Reck implies a team that is quite invested and involved but then as we get to the pointy end and are a few miselims in, I would think that is even greater reason to get the team involved. Especially on a slot like Ari. Yet there is no mention of that and I am suspicious of it.

Since most of the game seems to think Reck is town I want to discuss this because I think that's a dangerous assumption now that he's not mason (and I thought he was the most likely). I am not entirely convinced Adorable is town and have pangs of paranoia there so if anyone has a passionate argument there, let me know, but I don't actually find Reck's play in recent days to be especially town in any way?

I also separately feel like Ydrasse is scum because I think the "bursty" style of posting at times when she feels she needs to in order to look town and not much otherwise is more indicative of scum. I think there are lots of posts where she pretends to believe something more than she actually does.

Best example imo:
In post 1246, Ydrasse wrote:VOTE: deasvail

let us ride bravely onto this wagon brothers
Because later posts demonstrated that Ydrasse never even really thought I was scum. And what does she even think of me now? A town-Ydrasse would surely be thinking of me-scum as a strong possibility here (talk of Ari lining up Adorable and her as elims, Reck/Ari being an unlikely scumpair) but she doesn't seem interested in me at all at the moment. I can't help but think she's just waiting to see what will be well tolerated socially within the game and going with that.
But as always I have doubts. I respect Hectic's townread on Ydrasse. I don't know if Ydrasse as scum goes all in on an Ari-town "scumslip". At the same time though, it feels out of character that Ydrasse is coming across as so "sure" of it (other posts by Ydrasse are filled with a lot more doubt). Also the anger about the massclaim seems entirely misplaced, especially if it has caught scum, (which Ydrasse awkwardly points out in , as if to try and cover her tracks).

Now is the time where I'd really like to talk through reads and who the viable scumteams are. With the knowledge that xofelf is mason, hindsight says that massclaim may have been better the next day to better gauge Reck's alignment, but I also appreciate the greater clarity I feel now that massclaim has occurred and I do genuinely think that any frustration with the fact that it happened is overblown, because it honestly is unlikely to greatly alter kill targets (assuming that Bulge is town)
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Post Post #2710 (isolation #189) » Sun Mar 07, 2021 9:11 am

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In post 2707, xRECKONERx wrote:@DV I am confused by your point though. My team has naturally lost interest over time, which is just how things go. Why is it alignment indicative that they were active D1 but got less active as the game goes on? Like what's the scum motivation behind them STOPPING? The fact my team fell off seems like it would be viewed as being more town indicative since they were actually engaged at the start of TM and then stopped paying attention organically. If I were scum I could've kept faking it very easily
I agree that team involvement is probably in general more likely to occur earlier (less game to read, more excitement about the TM concept) than later.
My main thought from it was that it made the day 1 stuff seem more likely faked/exaggerated. Your posting made it seem as if your team was extremely invested. I think as scum it makes a lot of sense to pretend that one’s team is involved and giving reads (and for a team to even help out by giving fake reads) and the sheer contrast between day 1 and now made me think that you were overstating your team’s involvement all along.
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Post Post #2711 (isolation #190) » Sun Mar 07, 2021 9:13 am

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In post 2709, Adorable wrote:After the mass claim this has made me reevaluate. I have been suspicious of Ari today and DV also made some good points saying he was wondering if it is Ydrasse/Reckoner and I never even thought about this. I don't like how Ari says it's me/Ydrasse because that team makes no sense. It's like as if Ari is saying scum Ydrasse defended scum Adorable on day 1 and continues to defend her on day 1, scum Ydrasse votes scum beeboy and refuses to defend scum beeboy.
Adorable, why do you think scum would try hard to defend beeboy?

Also, if you were scum, why would your buddy bus you? You were never dead in the water like beeboy was
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Post Post #2712 (isolation #191) » Sun Mar 07, 2021 9:17 am

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Also why was Ydrasse so upset about the claiming when she thought xofelf was scum???
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Post Post #2713 (isolation #192) » Sun Mar 07, 2021 9:29 am

Post by DeasVail »

Bulge's reaction to the claim: Oh good! I don't have to think xof is scum anymore.

Ydrasse's reaction to the claim:

Spoiler:
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Post Post #2716 (isolation #193) » Sun Mar 07, 2021 12:34 pm

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I think that it might be at least partly a difference between mafia and LSGs. In LSGs, my instinct is to appease and I think you are right that this is to some degree true of me in life generally.
I think that in mafia it is necessary to work with other people. However you also KNOW that there are people in the game that are definitely there to manipulate you and no amount of appeasement is going to get them on your side because they just plain aren’t. So my usual LSG and life strategy does not work! I can’t convert mafia to town! (Well, between you and me I’m working on it but I haven’t been successful yet)

This game may be a little different for me too because the last couple of mafia games I played I struggled to really sink my teeth into and so I put a bit of effort into doing differently in this one. The early pressure of adorable and RCE kind of felt slightly unnatural to me but was also how I wanted to play and I felt comfortable getting into that “mode”, I guess.

I would probably most compare my more recent posts to LSG confessional posting. I talk about things that I see that don’t seem quite right and the advantage is that I have other people here to bounce my thoughts off.
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Post Post #2717 (isolation #194) » Sun Mar 07, 2021 12:35 pm

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Also I love the jury insulting reference <3
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Post Post #2723 (isolation #195) » Mon Mar 08, 2021 10:54 am

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In post 2718, Ydrasse wrote:like yeah cool i get to reset on a wrong read earlier but... also if xof got ran up and claimed then at least we would’ve gotten something out of them getting wagoned and seeing who was going where/with it, that’s what’s the irritating me about this whole thing
Did you get much from the other wagons in town that have happened in this game?
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Post Post #2724 (isolation #196) » Mon Mar 08, 2021 10:58 am

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In post 2719, xRECKONERx wrote:I can't prove to you that the natural progression of their involvement with the game is as I've stated it is, so this is a weird thing to hang your hat on
I am aware that you can’t prove it, but you also can’t prove that you’re town. It is a thing that I have been thinking, and I’m not sure how it’s weird!
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Post Post #2725 (isolation #197) » Mon Mar 08, 2021 10:58 am

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In post 2723, DeasVail wrote:
In post 2718, Ydrasse wrote:like yeah cool i get to reset on a wrong read earlier but... also if xof got ran up and claimed then at least we would’ve gotten something out of them getting wagoned and seeing who was going where/with it, that’s what’s the irritating me about this whole thing
Did you get much from the other wagons in town that have happened in this game?
*on town
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Post Post #2727 (isolation #198) » Mon Mar 08, 2021 12:15 pm

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Why does that matter though? Should I be making sure that if I have a reason for suspecting someone, that it’s only one that they can respond to? Should I not share my thoughts unless there is productive conversation with the suspected person to be had from it?

I’m not sure what your point is. I’m not sharing my thoughts for your benefit, but rather discussion of where I’m at for the sake of sorting your slot with the other people here.
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Post Post #2734 (isolation #199) » Tue Mar 09, 2021 9:49 am

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In post 2729, The Bulge wrote:I'm wondering if I should bother finishing my readthrough or if I should just focus potential pairings in iso and try to eliminate some possibilities.

orrrr I just go with my gut and say we elim Ari/Ydrasse/DV any order and win the game?
Why is Reck town?
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