TM 2021: A normal roguelike

[Adorable]

Hi

VOTE: Augustus Caesar

[Adorable]

Hi

VOTE: Augustus Caesar

Is this based on anything in particular?

No

[Adorable]

Why did you make the vote then? Have you read Augustus’ posts?

This was my rvs vote and yes I read them. I also saw that he gave a town read so fast and how is he able to have a town read so fast when it hasn't been longer than 24 hours.

[Adorable]

@Datisi Town doesn't know each other and they don't know who is scum. For me it takes around 48-72 hours to get a town read.

@Augustus The slight town read you gave on Ari I wasn't able to see how was that towny. Why do you like #60 from Datisi when you said that's very within their scum range? Since you said that is within their scum range then shouldn't you have been cautious?

@Aristophanes Did you mean how many games I played after the backrooms? I played 2 games.

[Adorable]

@Datisi Town doesn't know each other and they don't know who is scum. For me it takes around 48-72 hours to get a town read.

i'm aware how the game of mafia works. why are early townreads suspicious? how long does it take you to get a scumread?

I have seen scum before throw out early town reads and I have to ask myself what was it the player did that made them a town read since I wasn't able to see it being towny. It varies how long it takes me to get a scum read on day 1.

[Adorable]

do you have thoughts on me yet?

I did not like the way how you voted me saying I look fake.

puff puff puff
how much have you spoken to your team about reads or anything?

I asked my team what do they think of the players after I made #85 and one of them gave me their takes. I'll get to that in about 15-30 minutes.

[Adorable]

i'm not doing extra work to "take out" the flourishes and get to the meat of the content, i have three other games to keep up with as part of team mafia at the same time, and i'm starting a new job next week. it's a cost benefit analysis. i find the fact people are allowed to play on alts extremely annoying, i find the posting quirk extremely annoying -- and there's a high ratio of annoying quirky posts compared to the rest of the game. if hectic wants me to read posts they could just post normally instead of wrapping it behind a layer of alt account shtick? why is it on me to accommodate hectic's posting?

i'm disregarding the slot for my own ability to keep up with and read the game and not be miserable. i've asked my team to help me read hectic's posts. if hectic wants to drop the style ill read and respond to what they have to say.

as for your point about adorable, taken a diff way, it's "well adorable's meta is to be strange and an easy vote". i know nothing about adorable. i've never seen them before. and meta is trash anyway. i voted adorable bc of their exchange with DV, which i already said. that's not "strange". that's a straight up lie. adorable claimed to vote on nothing just pure RVS... then upon being questioned explained they did ACTUALLY vote for a reason... and then upon being pushed further by DV, completely ignored DV and jumped onto other things. that's scummy. idgaf about their meta.

I didn't like the way how you just straight up voted me saying I dipped and without even engaging with me. I went to bed after I responded to DV and don't expect me to respond right away because I'm not active.

Hopkirk thoughts:

-Doesn't get immediate townpings on Adorable like he did in Death Curse
-Doesn't think it's impossible for Reck to just be angry town. His impression of him is that he gets angry at stuff for no reason
>Is now giving him a quick skim on the relationships thread in the speakeasy lol
>I asked him what he found and he didn't reply. I think he was joking
-Says that his vague memory of previous games with him suggest it could come from town!him

Was this Hopkirk's meta read on Reck? I have had bad experience on meta reads because the players who town read a player for meta turned out to be scum in the end.

[Adorable]

This is what midwaybear said when I asked what does he think of the players after I made #85.

-He said Creature's entrance seems townie and his concern over being distracted over studies is slightly townie and doesn't care much as scum. For me Creature is hard to read and I wasn't able to see how that was townie.
-He wasn't sure why Ari asked Creature who scum is. He is overall a bit too jokey.
-Said Hectic/Ydrasse back and forth seems mostly NAI and said he believed they did this in Pooky/FL.
-Said xofelf seems to be taking Reck's RVS vote a bit serious
- Said Hectic's read on Ari in post 50 he doesn't agree with. It's just a wagon and there's nothing really to be self conscious of that early.
- Said Hectic including NAI reads is interesting and didn't know what to think of it yet.
- Said Datisi townread on DV is also not the best.
- Said Datisi voting me is somewhat understandable
-Said Hectic seems townie, but it is a weak read for him.
-Said Datisi's questions on Ari mostly reflects his thoughts and thought that was good except he put a question mark in the end and it looked like he wasn't sure.
-Said Bulge asking Sirius about personal life seemed abit intrusive and he put lol in the end.

These thoughts are through #9-#87

[Adorable]

On the next page midwaybear wrote I forgot to say he's very cautious townread on petapan as well for talking about how he will eventually go out of scumrange(very cautious)

I wasn't able to understand on what he meant by that and I'll have to ask what did he mean by that.

[Adorable]

I didn't like the way how you just straight up voted me saying I dipped and without even engaging with me. I went to bed after I responded to DV and don't expect me to respond right away because I'm not active.

what is so concerning about voting before engaging this early in the game? he did far far more to engage you than what you did before you voted, for example.

Reck's reasoning to their vote looked suspicious to me. It was the way how they worded it because I went to sleep and they said I dipped.

is there anything that you do like so far, adorable?

After catching up I've been liking Hectic so far.

I have to log out for now and will be back later.

[Adorable]

I'll respond to the other questions later when I come back.

[Adorable]

hot take: hectic/reck are t/t

Ari my love, why do you feel funny to me? There's this tone underneath your posts that don't quite feel genuine and more performative. Idk if it's AI, I just know unlike usual, reading your posts made my nose wrinkle up.

i think? i feel similar-ish to this? could you talk about this a bit more?

ok like i think i'm getting pinged more by adorable. 122 is kinda vaguely talking about - oh there was a bad meta read once - that doesn't seem to serve any purpose other than being filler. also the question to hectic in 85 doesn't get answered and i don't think she really cares for it? also like bulge's 127.

I did not like the way how you voted me saying I look fake.

why?

- Said Datisi townread on DV is also not the best.

i'm also very interested in this one.

Reason why I didn't like the way how you voted me is because this is something I have also seen scum do where they would call a player fake and that's an easy read for scum to give.

The reason why he said your townread on DV was not the best was because he thought scum would be coming in solving as well.

[Adorable]

ok like i think i'm getting pinged more by adorable. 122 is kinda vaguely talking about - oh there was a bad meta read once - that doesn't seem to serve any purpose other than being filler. also the question to hectic in 85 doesn't get answered and i don't think she really cares for it? also like bulge's 127.

Puff loves bringing up stuff like this as both alignments. She talks a lot about theory and how she saw scum do "this one thing one time" and then vaguely fits it to what someone did in the current game. NAI I think.

midwaybear's thoughts in 128 are okay, don't see anything wrong with them.

Puff, what changed your mind and made you like me in 134?

Oh, so part of my reasoning for townreading Puff earlier is because if she had a scumteam as well as Team Mafia teammates, I'd expect some level of coaching to be happening behind the scenes. And if that's the case, I don't see them letting her enter with a "early townreads are suspicious, how can you even have a townread so early" theory line of attack which is obviously flawed, and could easily attract attention/suspicion.
I asked her how much she'd conversed with her team though and apparently she only did after the fact. Still think there's validity in it though, because her team or scumteam would probably proactively try and help her out considering the occasion and all.

The way how you approached me made me like you.

Also, you never answered my first question.

[Adorable]

This is what midwaybear said when I asked what does he think of the players after I made #85.

-He said Creature's entrance seems townie and his concern over being distracted over studies is slightly townie and doesn't care much as scum. For me Creature is hard to read and I wasn't able to see how that was townie.
-He wasn't sure why Ari asked Creature who scum is. He is overall a bit too jokey.
-Said Hectic/Ydrasse back and forth seems mostly NAI and said he believed they did this in Pooky/FL.
-Said xofelf seems to be taking Reck's RVS vote a bit serious
- Said Hectic's read on Ari in post 50 he doesn't agree with. It's just a wagon and there's nothing really to be self conscious of that early.
- Said Hectic including NAI reads is interesting and didn't know what to think of it yet.
- Said Datisi townread on DV is also not the best.
- Said Datisi voting me is somewhat understandable
-Said Hectic seems townie, but it is a weak read for him.
-Said Datisi's questions on Ari mostly reflects his thoughts and thought that was good except he put a question mark in the end and it looked like he wasn't sure.
-Said Bulge asking Sirius about personal life seemed abit intrusive and he put lol in the end.

These thoughts are through #9-#87

I would have thought that one of the most striking things from a reads perspective would have been my push of you, yet midwaybear has no opinion on it.

This feels like panic asking a team-mate to help fake reads to look town.

What are you talking about? Hectic asked me how much have I spoken to my team about reads and I said that I asked my team before Hectic even asked me about reads. What you're saying makes no sense here because how am I scum panicking when I have already asked my team long ago about on what did they think of the players.

[Adorable]

I didn't like the way how you just straight up voted me saying I dipped and without even engaging with me. I went to bed after I responded to DV and don't expect me to respond right away because I'm not active.

Is a vote not a form of engagement?

You voted Augustus for maybe a reason, maybe no reason. What's so harmful about a vote?

My vote on Augustus was an rvs and I don't even know what you are asking in the second sentence. Are you asking me what's so harmful about my vote on Hectic?

[Adorable]

I didn't like the way how you just straight up voted me saying I dipped and without even engaging with me. I went to bed after I responded to DV and don't expect me to respond right away because I'm not active.

you literally posted replying to other people and not DV

you're *still* ignoring DV after being called out on it???

?

I can't respond to every single post and there will always be a post I will miss. When I came back which was around 10 hours later I responded to Datisi, Hectic, Ari, and I missed out on DV's post.

[Adorable]

Gotta say the multiposting thing is going to kill me. It just feels like noise for the sake of noise and my eyes kinda glaze over as I read it. I also can't keep track of which is which, and who they're supposed to be underneath the alt, which is making that slot so much harder to read.(I also don't remember if it was just one of the public alts hyperposting or both, so that's a bad sign)
I am liking DV so far. The questions do feel like they're coming from a genuine place. I guess the term is solving? But it just feels like good reaction poking and I'm here for it.
Ari my love, why do you feel funny to me? There's this tone underneath your posts that don't quite feel genuine and more performative. Idk if it's AI, I just know unlike usual, reading your posts made my nose wrinkle up.
That's what I got for now.

Gotta say the multiposting thing is going to kill me. It just feels like noise for the sake of noise and my eyes kinda glaze over as I read it. I also can't keep track of which is which, and who they're supposed to be underneath the alt, which is making that slot so much harder to read.(I also don't remember if it was just one of the public alts hyperposting or both, so that's a bad sign)
I am liking DV so far. The questions do feel like they're coming from a genuine place. I guess the term is solving? But it just feels like good reaction poking and I'm here for it.
Ari my love, why do you feel funny to me? There's this tone underneath your posts that don't quite feel genuine and more performative. Idk if it's AI, I just know unlike usual, reading your posts made my nose wrinkle up.
That's what I got for now.

this 100%

the stupid fucking open alts rule is very bad and dumb and creates more legwork for people to open a tab and have to crossreference who is saying what bc of the alts, the spamposting is ridiculous (out of the first ~100 posts nearly HALF of them are solely from ari + hectic), and the forced shtick of posting in character with images at the end of every post or whatever the hell hectic is doing is sapping my will to live

but i signed up to play team mafia, so i will play team mafia. i am just not going to engage with hectic's shtick for my own sanity. if my team wants to read it they can and fill me in. actually ill ask them to do that right now.

xof's post 100% lines up with my headspace atm so i'm feeling big town energy there

Xof-town. Reck less town but still leaning town.

Can you explain here the town read on Xof? You said less town on Reck but still leaning town. Why did you say less town on Reck?

[Adorable]

ok so same situation I'm talking about because flashwagoning galaxii implies you weren't happy with the leading wagons of titus and klyne. except insisting on looking at it from that angle makes it an even less apt comparison because stating a scumread will almost always be more relevant than stating you think a pair is t/t. and I am really not super concerned with your choice of words, maybe ydra cares more about that, idk.

eh, i felt it was decently similar enough that i don't see why you'd be suspicious of me here but i don't think we're gonna get anything more out of this

Reason why I didn't like the way how you voted me is because this is something I have also seen scum do where they would call a player fake and that's an easy read for scum to give.

The reason why he said your townread on DV was not the best was because he thought scum would be coming in solving as well.

i dunno. like "i don't like the way you voted me because i saw scum call a player fake" and "scum would be solving too" all feel like. spewing theory that maybe is maybe isn't connected to the game and it's being used to force reads. like i don't think i see the theory being ~applied~.

does that make sense? it's 3am.

I was not satisfied with your answer and it didn't make sense to me.

[Adorable]

i think hectic is town
and i think reck is town
so their spat is t/t

if you're asking *why* i think so, i already gave some thoughts on hectic earlier and he hasn't pinged me in a bad way yet so
reck is some weird lol-gut-townread also i'm vibing with his adorable interactions

hot take doesn't necessarily have to mean "ok wow nobody's ever thought of this ever get ready to have your fuckin mind blown"
it's my way of speaking idk
like i won't just write "hectic/reck t/t" at the beginning of a post without any intro to it you feel

I don't like gut reads because that can sometimes be a good way for scum to give out a read. Your town read on Reck I need more to that than just a gut read.

[Adorable]

bulge townie


adorable in 56 you said the vote wasn't based on anything, but in 58 you said it was because of how augustus gave a fast town read. that's what people are getting on your case about. can you address this?

There seems to be alot of misunderstanding. I did an rvs vote on Augustus and I said was that I saw he gave a town read fast and how is he able to have a town read so fast. I didn't have a read on him when I did an rvs vote on him and I wanted to observe him more afterwards before I decide on my read on him.

[Adorable]

Thanks for that Adorable

How did it take so long to just say that given the amount of air time the whole thing has gotten in the thread?

Sorry about that. I missed your post when I came back from my 10 hours absence. There will always be some posts I will miss from other players and that's why if there is anything I missed and did not respond you will have to ask me again.

[Adorable]

so, you voted him for rvs reasons, then after you voted him, when asked about him, you read his stuff and came away wondering about the townread? is that correct?

What happened was I saw he gave a fast town read, I did an rvs vote on him and wanted to observe him more when I come back before I decide on my read on him.

[Adorable]

but you said the vote wasn't based on anything when asked?

The part when you said "the vote wasn't based on anything" what does that mean? I interpreted this as in I didn't give a serious vote.

[Adorable]

Everything Hectic has said about Reckoner so far I agree with and I have been scum reading Reck.

I also don't like how xof said Summer and I are together and xof said Summer did an awful alot of defending me. From what I remember, scum would never defend each other because that just makes the other scum look bad when one of them flips. I'm scum reading both Reckoner and xof and I am suspicious that scum are trying to push an elimination on me day 1.

VOTE: xRECKONERx

[Adorable]

Hectic I see you are also town reading Summer and what do you think of xof's post when they mentioned Summer and me?

[Adorable]

b/c i don't see any universe where
a) two scum white knight the same townie off of such little pressure early d1
b) two buddies go hard to get pressure off of adorable d1 when it's so early

so at most, one of them is scum IMO

On b) you said two buddies go hard to get pressure off scum so what you're saying here is 2 scum in Hectic, Ari, petapan are scum.

I'm curious to hear from Hectic, Ari, and petapan what they have to say about this post.

[Adorable]

Everything Hectic has said about Reckoner so far I agree with and I have been scum reading Reck.

I also don't like how xof said Summer and I are together and xof said Summer did an awful alot of defending me. From what I remember, scum would never defend each other because that just makes the other scum look bad when one of them flips. I'm scum reading both Reckoner and xof and I am suspicious that scum are trying to push an elimination on me day 1.

VOTE: xRECKONERx

why are you scum reading me

You were complaining about spam posting, I didn't like the reasoning of your vote on me at #99, I don't like your attitude and it comes off to me as performative and over the top.

[Adorable]

cheet and shea have told me to stop being an asshole and read hectic's posts bc they're not that bad. fine. coming later. ive got zoomthings happening right now.

With the way you are behaving you really do need to stop and that's part of the reason why I'm scum reading you. My teammates have been encouraging me to engage with you but with the way how you are behaving it is hard for me to.

[Adorable]

DV you never responded to my post at #205

[Adorable]

xRECKONERx (4) - Augustus Caesar, Aristophanes, petapan, Adorable

ok. can we talk about what the utter dumpster fire this wagon is? like, peta's vote on it is the least bad one, and that's saying something. hectic's vote is kinda like. bleh. made in some sorta anger, then getting told by teammates he's overreacting, then just kinda like staying on the wagon. not good but like whatever. i'm still net +town on hectic i'm just saying.

last night, duck was yelling at me for not trying to get aristophanes killed yet. and like i think he's right. ari's vote here boiled down to "reck feels off", when called out on it, ari did a "ok maybe not but whatever" (113). i believe he was asked to elaborate further, and he's just...? dipped the thread??? ok.

i was gonna come in this morning after my 3 and a half hours of sleep and offer a hot take and vote ari but like. adorable.

i don't like my 229 ignored. now before you say "adorable didn't see it!!" no no here's the thing. adorable has been brewing a scumread on me for a few posts now. (119, 195, 206, 207) when your scumread, who you believe is pushing a misexe on you, is doing what i'm doing, do you really just ~miss~ it?

now her reasons for scumreading reck boil down to a bunch of nai shit (personality) and his first vote against her. but like. she's been talking about the scumread on me for far longer. now all of a sudden i'm forgotten, and she votes reck? i wonder if the fact that reck was on three votes and i was on zero has anything to do with that.

also also can i just point out how... bad the read on xof is? like, at first it was applying vague mafia theory without looking at the context of the game. but now it's applying *wrong* vague mafia theory. the idea that scum never defend each other is insane and i'm lowkey weirded out nobody's brought this up?

Hectic said he has a tinfoil reason to townlean you and I'll trust him on this. I have been town reading Hectic and he is a really good scum hunter. There are 3 games I played with Hectic where he correctly called out a scum player.

I didn't like how xof said me and Summer are a team and I pretty much said why. This also made me think scum wanted to set up a fake team.

[Adorable]

Hectic said he has a tinfoil reason to townlean you and I'll trust him on this. I have been town reading Hectic and he is a really good scum hunter. There are 3 games I played with Hectic where he correctly called out a scum player.

I didn't like how xof said me and Summer are a team and I pretty much said why. This also made me think scum wanted to set up a fake team.

do you plan to just blindly follow hectic the whole game? is your whole suspicion on me magically gone because he said he has ~reasons~ to townlean me?

yeah you said why and i said why i think your reason is made up. can you elaborate on "fake team"? surely after you flip town, the "fake team" goes in the garbage, no?

Having to read your post on #280 it looked like it was coming from town and this was your first post that pinged town to me. I don't know how to word it well and by fake team I thought scum would want to call out 2 players as the scum team. xof called Summer and me as the team and when I flip town you will see the read that was made about Summer and me was garbage.

[Adorable]

also, i have been a little paranoid of Adorable's read on me. Adorable has scumread me in like 3/4 of the games we've been together while she was town, no joke. so when she came out with a solid townread on me, I was incredulous to say the least. I think my weird joking/gimmicking style is what sets off her scumdar, and i'd think my over the top gimmicking in this game would yield the same reaction... but nope.

she started townreading me after i was townreading her so uh, paranoid of a pocket recommended by her teammates tbh

Hectic I see you are also town reading Summer and what do you think of xof's post when they mentioned Summer and me?

b/c i don't see any universe where
a) two scum white knight the same townie off of such little pressure early d1
b) two buddies go hard to get pressure off of adorable d1 when it's so early

so at most, one of them is scum IMO

On b) you said two buddies go hard to get pressure off scum so what you're saying here is 2 scum in Hectic, Ari, petapan are scum.

I'm curious to hear from Hectic, Ari, and petapan what they have to say about this post.

like the fact she values my opinion here makes me feel warm and fuzzy, but is there an eye of SAURON underneath that puffy puff who knows what she's doing by trying to pocket me like this?"!?$?R

Hectic said he has a tinfoil reason to townlean you and I'll trust him on this. I have been town reading Hectic and he is a really good scum hunter. There are 3 games I played with Hectic where he correctly called out a scum player.

oh god, I almost forgot about this one. you've never ever complimented me like this before Puff

am i paranoid? reassure me by explaining exactly why you townread me, like what about the way i approached you made you like me

This is funny because midway told me yesterday he is worried you are pocketing me and he said to watch out for that.

[Adorable]

alright alright alright

hey Puff, do you mind answering the questions i asked and/or addressing the concerns i had? i might even put in a good word for you with the don, get you promoted to rolecop hint hint

I town read you because you know that I'm the type of player who is very difficult and I argue with others. Your post on #147 you linked my games saying you have played alot with me and I find this very hard to believe scum would town read me and then link my games saying they played with me. Your recent concern I saw that you had about me was you said I'm going overboard outside both my townmeta and scummeta and then you start to think this could be scum indicative and I disagree with you.

[Adorable]

Aristophanes are you all caught up? Some of the stuff you have asked me have already been answered. The part when you asked me about what do I think of you using meta to defend me mean to me about my read on you is making me lean town on you. I don't believe in scum white knighting me and why should scum defend me when I could have been a really good push for scum to eliminate. In a world if I am ever being defended by scum, then this would mean that scum knows what my weakness is in my town games.

[Adorable]

okay first off, ari, latching onto something i think is incredibly scummy and screaming about it is like literally how i think people should play as town until something is satisfactory

you ask what adorable could've done to answer me. i don't know, EXPLAIN the fucking thought process there? give me SOMETHING to show why they would have contradicted themselves? but they didn't, they just kept dodging and ignoring it, even when *multiple* people pointed it out to them. your insistence that adorable is just weird bc meta and insinuation that it somehow insulates them from any prosecution for doing bad scummy shit is like, buck wild to me. HOWEVER, i will say that at the very least, your overzealous defense of adorable has me thinking that she may actually be town here and you're just latching onto an easy white knight target as scum. like literally nobody else has tried to do what you've tried to do, there's been some light push back, but what you're doing here is just over the top. i have zero faith that you actually believe adorable is as town as you pretend to believe.

that being said, agar sent me a multiple page word doc with his thoughts on the game in stream of consciousness bullet point form. from a skim here are some highlights:
- deasvail +town points for jumping in and not fucking around with RVS detecting enough happened to apply pressure
- adorable reading as newbie/inexperienced, not alignment indicative. overall thinks adorable is being set up to be the token defense for scum to earn townpoints, +townpoints for adorable. (im going to yell at him on voice ab this when we get a chance)
- he's feeling vibes with datisi's posts, same page, likes pressuring/questioning of ari. datisi is a hero for post 280.
- #81 from peta where he votes serious is really weird and #83 doesn't provide any follow, +scum points.
- agrees that xof' 108 is goodposting
- dislikes hectic's whole reaction to me in general, esp 112 which feels overly defensive ab a dumb gimmick, and 145 which either misunderstands (at best) or misrepresents (at worse) my objection to the posting style. 256 reads like TMI from hectic, which would point towards adorable being town. also thinks hectic calling ari's takes on me "okay" is bad bc ari just fabricated them out of nowhere, they were based on 4 posts of nothing and he hadnt explained them at all.
- thinks ari is displaying clear thought processes in general with just shitty logic, +town points for ari
- sirius has done nothing, continues to do nothing, compares him to vezokpiraka which almost made spit out my water
- re: beeboy meta is trash and yeeting lurkers in team mafia is also hot garbage

that's ab it. there's a lot of v inflammatory commentary in here meant only to soothe my ego so ive edited out a lot of it for time. overall, i have some stark disagreements with him (mostly re: adorable & hectic) but the rest of it feels pretty on point.

I actually really like this post. I have been really suspicious that there are at least 1 or 2 scum voting me and I had Reckoner as my scum read. 2 days ago midwaybear says he thinks Reckoner is town and he also thinks I'm getting pocketed by scum but I have been disagreeing with him. I see that Reckoner is also having the same problems as me since he thinks I'm scum but one of his team mate thinks I'm town who's getting pocketed by scum. I'm now starting to think Reckoner is town just after seeing this post.

[Adorable]

I also think beeboy is scum.

VOTE: beeboy

[Adorable]

beeboy has not been participating which is suspicious. I am currently leaning town on Hectic, DV, Reckoner, Aristophanes, Datisi, and Summer. I have 6 players I am town reading which makes me think scum are somewhere hidden in the players I am not town reading.

[Adorable]

why the townreads on DV, ari, and summer? do you often find people not participating to be scum, rather than simply not having the time? (i am aware i'm voting beeboy too, but have reasons that go beyond that)

My town read on Aristophanes is on #377. DV scum read me earlier and then later he says he thinks he has a town read on me, I liked how he described his town read on Xof on #277 even though I disagreed with the town read, he keeps reevaluating which also looks townie. I like how Summer is writing her thoughts which looks town to me. I often find myself scum reading players who are participating. Earlier I was scum reading Datisi and Reckoner who have been participating and now I have been leaning town on them.

[Adorable]

I like how Summer is writing her thoughts which looks town to me.

this is very vague, which thoughts do you like?

I like #345, #348, #417, and #418.

[Adorable]

...what about them?

On #345 she defended me and why would scum want to defend me when I could have been a good push for scum to eliminate. On #348 she showed a bit of a paranoia on Hectic who could be pocketing her which looked townie from her, on #417 she talks to Datisi being fearful about him being the deepwolf and I don't think scum would want to approach Datisi like, #418 looks real to me.

[Adorable]

...what about them?

On #345 she defended me and why would scum want to defend me when I could have been a good push for scum to eliminate. On #348 she showed a bit of a paranoia on Hectic who could be pocketing her which looked townie from her, on #417 she talks to Datisi being fearful about him being the deepwolf and I don't think scum would want to approach Datisi like, #418 looks real to me.

okay first off, ari, latching onto something i think is incredibly scummy and screaming about it is like literally how i think people should play as town until something is satisfactory

you ask what adorable could've done to answer me. i don't know, EXPLAIN the fucking thought process there? give me SOMETHING to show why they would have contradicted themselves? but they didn't, they just kept dodging and ignoring it, even when *multiple* people pointed it out to them. your insistence that adorable is just weird bc meta and insinuation that it somehow insulates them from any prosecution for doing bad scummy shit is like, buck wild to me. HOWEVER, i will say that at the very least, your overzealous defense of adorable has me thinking that she may actually be town here and you're just latching onto an easy white knight target as scum. like literally nobody else has tried to do what you've tried to do, there's been some light push back, but what you're doing here is just over the top. i have zero faith that you actually believe adorable is as town as you pretend to believe.

that being said, agar sent me a multiple page word doc with his thoughts on the game in stream of consciousness bullet point form. from a skim here are some highlights:
- deasvail +town points for jumping in and not fucking around with RVS detecting enough happened to apply pressure
- adorable reading as newbie/inexperienced, not alignment indicative. overall thinks adorable is being set up to be the token defense for scum to earn townpoints, +townpoints for adorable. (im going to yell at him on voice ab this when we get a chance)
- he's feeling vibes with datisi's posts, same page, likes pressuring/questioning of ari. datisi is a hero for post 280.
- #81 from peta where he votes serious is really weird and #83 doesn't provide any follow, +scum points.
- agrees that xof' 108 is goodposting
- dislikes hectic's whole reaction to me in general, esp 112 which feels overly defensive ab a dumb gimmick, and 145 which either misunderstands (at best) or misrepresents (at worse) my objection to the posting style. 256 reads like TMI from hectic, which would point towards adorable being town. also thinks hectic calling ari's takes on me "okay" is bad bc ari just fabricated them out of nowhere, they were based on 4 posts of nothing and he hadnt explained them at all.
- thinks ari is displaying clear thought processes in general with just shitty logic, +town points for ari
- sirius has done nothing, continues to do nothing, compares him to vezokpiraka which almost made spit out my water
- re: beeboy meta is trash and yeeting lurkers in team mafia is also hot garbage

that's ab it. there's a lot of v inflammatory commentary in here meant only to soothe my ego so ive edited out a lot of it for time. overall, i have some stark disagreements with him (mostly re: adorable & hectic) but the rest of it feels pretty on point.

I actually really like this post. I have been really suspicious that there are at least 1 or 2 scum voting me and I had Reckoner as my scum read. 2 days ago midwaybear says he thinks Reckoner is town and he also thinks I'm getting pocketed by scum but I have been disagreeing with him. I see that Reckoner is also having the same problems as me since he thinks I'm scum but one of his team mate thinks I'm town who's getting pocketed by scum. I'm now starting to think Reckoner is town just after seeing this post.

can you reconcile these two posts? In one, you say you've been paranoid of people defending you bc they might be scum. In the other, you say someone defended you so they must be town for defending you because scum would push you.

this is a contradiction. again.

I never said I have been paranoid of scum defending me. I was talking about Summer who said she was paranoid of Hectic defending her. midwaybear said earlier he thinks there is scum defending me and I disagreed with him.

[Adorable]

Made an error and I meant Summer was paranoid of Hectic pocketing her.

[Adorable]

I never said I have been paranoid of scum defending me. I was talking about Summer who said she was paranoid of Hectic defending her. midwaybear said earlier he thinks there is scum defending me and I disagreed with him.

ah i see -- so your TEAMMATES are paranoid about scum defending you.

if you disagree with midwaybear, then why do you read me as town now?

midwaybear said 3 days ago he is worried scum are defending me but I disagreed with him. I really liked your post you made on #404 where you were talking about agar's thoughts on the game and this looked like to me your team are helping you solve the game. From what I saw from agar is he said he thinks Hectic's post #256 read like tmi to him which would point to me being town. You said you disagreed with him with the read on me and Hectic. The fact that we have been disagreeing with our team mates is what made me started town reading you.

I'll be heading off to work now.

[Adorable]

What I saw from sirius is he calls me a sheep, says I only mentioned 6 players and then he puts +scum in the end. sirius gave a half read list and so from his point of view that should also mean sirius is +scum.

To answer your question Hectic I wrote 272 myself.

[Adorable]

Sirius said innocent boy likes peta +town and is that the only town read innocent has? I have 6 players I am town reading and petapan is one of those players I'm still trying to figure out their alignment.

[Adorable]

Time to find culprits

VOTE: Augustus Caesar

On 400 I saw you put Augustus as green and what made you change your mind all of a sudden?

[Adorable]

pink fluff and bulge boi tbh?

Why? And I also want to know is petapan the only town read Innocent has and what's the reasoning for the town read.

[Adorable]

Probably, through 7 pages my shortlist poe is datisi/Deasveil/Reck

That didn't answer your other question.

The push on adorable from deas felt like they were pressuring adorable into making their rvs mean something and if it didn't it was scummy. Intimidation tactics basically. That pressure was compounded by your slot and recks slot piling on.

The two thoughts just reading through were:
1.) Coordinated shading (mostly because adorable looked like a vulnerable slot after Deas' line of questioning tripping them up)
B.) An opportunity to make the adorable slot a viable elim if nothing else opened itself up.

That would point to Datisi/reck as more likely scum than deas in that scenario but not by much if that makes sense.

Also I hadn't thought about it at the time but I don't really know how quickly the thread was progressing at the time so it might not have all been happening as fast as it played out in my head.

After looking at the VC on my rep in that didn't really line up, there is scum on my wagon and I'd bet multiple scum at that. Deas wasn't on my wagon when I made that statement, you weren't either so I figured I might have made a wrong assessment there.

I'm not able to tell if you're all caught up or not and I see you said Datisi/Reck are more likely scum not by much. I was scum reading Datisi and Reck earlier and I later on started to think they are town and I have them on my town read. Since you said you bet there is multiple scum on your wagon who are you suspecting are the multiple scum on your wagon?

[Adorable]

Hectic what are you saying? Your post when you responded to RCEnigma's #766 you said the case/reasoning is fine and said it's likely there's just 1 or even 0 scum on the wagon and scum are fine with a town wagon being pushed. The way how I interpreted your post it looked like you are saying RCEnigma is town saying there is likely just 1 or 0 scum on the wagon and you still keep your vote on him.

[Adorable]

Can anyone tell me what do they think of Xofelf? I did not like it when they called me and Summer a team. When I iso Xofelf at 829 they said along the lines of, "guys, we have 3 days and there is a single wagon, the fuck are we doing? We all need to step it up." What did Xofelf mean by this? They also said their reads are gutreads but I don't like gutreads.

[Adorable]

i was gone for over a day and the game progressed... less than a page.

I considered pushing Bulge today and it is still a possibility imo but in some ways the weak case on Datisi is something that I think is less likely from scum while a lurker-buddy is being wagoned? No way Bulge thought that the Datisi case would save the beeboy slot. The more I type the more I feel uncomfortable with Bulge as scum.

this is actually a kinda sorta interesting line of thinking. am i insane for tinfoiling deas/bulge though? lol.

I would like to see something from xofelf today before moving on, but I expect I will be moving on.

what's the point of saying "oh i expect i'll be moving on"?? like it feels more ~for show~ rather than like. a towny thought process of solving another slot.

someone please fucking call me scum or something so i have motivation for doing things

oh i know

They also said their reads are gutreads but I don't like gutreads.

hey, adorable!! literally *all* my reads as town are gut reads!! am i scum now??

I find this really hard to believe. I don't trust gut reads and I find them misleading. If your reads as town are gut reads then I will assume you are a distraction to town.

[Adorable]

Hi there, was busy when game started up.
I find it interesting that yesterday I was being looked at as being scummy if RCE was town and I hammered, but today now that he's not town, I'm scummy still? But also it was peta who was side-eying me for that hammer, if theoretically I was in fact scum, why the hell would I let that be the shot? I just look at all of these pieces and feel very:

I get Adorable didn't like my previous read on her, or apparently at all how I read anybody, but come on girl. This ain't it. Sirius is right, most of yesterday was gutreads, why are you singling me out for it? Is it just cuz I stated that's how I work or do you just dislike that I thought you and Summer could have been a team so much that you've got your teeth buried into it like a bulldog and you're never going to let it go?

I don't know what to tell you DV. I'm probably just overthinking posts in general. I'm trying to put effort in to be the most helpful I actually can be to make up for having a very broken care meter about most things lately. Sorry about that.

FWIW, Reck is right, really only Ceph is reading everybody else's games, he's our MVP. And is better at explaining me than I seem to be. The post about only having 3 days was not about RCE specifically, but rather the fact that personally I find it difficult to stay engaged with a mafia game, but so much less so when the entire game feels like they aren't engaging much at all. It takes me a lot of effort to any posts because either people are already saying what I want to say in so many more better words than I can and having my iso just be littered with "this" seems counterproductive, or I don't have anything new to contribute.

I remember I had some thoughts about some stuff I was going to post when day started but I have forgotten what they were. If I do remember, I'll come back with them.

You were the one who stood out to me the most and yes it was also for calling me and Summer a scum team.

[Adorable]

I find this really hard to believe. I don't trust gut reads and I find them misleading. If your reads as town are gut reads then I will assume you are a distraction to town.

my recent reads-streak and getting-nightkilled-streak *strongly* suggests otherwise but / s h r u g

ok, let's hear it. what are your reads? bonus points if their basis *isn't* vague incorrect mafia theory that's been taken out of context.

I have already talked about this on day 1 with explanations and my posts were scattered in different posts.

These are the players I am currently leaning town on. Hectic, Reck, DV, Ari, Summer, Datisi, Creature.

[Adorable]

Okay, sure, but you also had Reck and Datisi as scum reads before and then said you had town leans on them, but at no point have you fully explained why you have town reads on them. The closest I can see is you said they were participating. You are wildly inconsistent.
Let me show you what I mean:
In 438 you talk about the beeboy slot not participating which is scummy. And then in 443 you say, and I quote "I often find myself scum reading players who are participating." and not even words later, "Earlier I was scum reading Datisi and Reckoner who have been participating and now I have been leaning town on them."
So which is it? And this is the closest to an explanation you give for your no longer scumreads on Reck and Datisi. You don't go more in depth, so it's real hard to follow why you think these things. You did respond to a post Reck made further up that said you might be leaning less scum, but you don't do that for Datisi. And you don't give actual theory or logical reasoning for this. You just say you like it, which is what a gutread often is!
Like you talk about people having gutreads being distracting to town, but what are you doing? Cuz you're impossible to follow and understand. I don't get you.

These are the only players I have said on why I lean town on them.

Town read on Reck is on 429 and 478
Town read on Hectic is on 340
Town read on DV is on 443
Town read on Summer is on 449
Town read on Aristophanes is on 377

I don't even understand on what you are saying and how are these gut reads?

[Adorable]

i do not have the energy to look for explanations through your iso but i am glad someone else is doing god's work doing that.

why do you think i'd be a distraction? like, you've seen my play so far, you apparently think i'm town, how/why am i also a distraction? also, why do you care so much about gutreads this game?

You said that your reads as town are gut reads and I assumed you are a distraction to town when you said that your reads are gut reads. A town player saying they have gut reads can end in a miss. I also find gut reads to be misleading and this is something I have seen scum do.

[Adorable]

I forgot to mention my town read on Datisi was never explained on day 1.

[Adorable]

for the record: i went through all adorable completed games yesreday. yes, literally all of them. open her iso, ctrl+f the word "gut". in only two (2) games was it actually mentioned (not in passing/quoting): this game, where she shitpushed bob on the basis of having gutreads... and an old towngame where she suspected someone for having gutreads.

now, i thought this was gonna be a slam-dunk, but as she *did* make a post like that as town once... i guess it isn't.

huh
Did this thing about gutreads arise recently for you, Puff? When did you first adopt the opinion that gutreads are generally scummy?

I also gtg for now

When I first started out in playing mafia games I learned from a veteran player on another site she said gutreads are scummy and from my play experience I have seen scum say that their reads are gutreads.

[Adorable]

VOTE: xofelf

[Adorable]

Or my entire day got eaten up and I am far too tired to give the post I intended to.

I will say, while I get why Creature is looking at my actions and reasoning them to be bad, I don't typically hammer at all in any game, I rarely vote for that matter. I was trying something new upon the recommendations of the only person in my team actually giving any sort of effort. Adorable I think has just been looking for anybody else to vote me first, so I'm not surprised by that one either.

Hoping today reset my caremeter enough that I can actually jump into this with some excitement. Also maybe I'll start my day with this rather than try to do it later in the day. That might be smarter.

Why would you think this way about me? On day 1 you said town should be working together and I remember 2 of my town reads were town reading you on day 1 and on day 2 I asked what did the players think about you since I have been really suspicious of your play so far and it felt like I was the only player who was scum reading you.

[Adorable]

to summarise:

>dues was VERY confident RCE was scum. last in his reads, and provided a scumcase on him
>dues unvotes as soon as RCE claims. he provides no explanation for why the claim should be given a night
>dues follows a vote onto Summer
>dues is not present while I am arguing that RCE should still die
>he now apparently doesn't really care if RCE is eliminated, and didn't attempt to discuss it with me or others at all


I think this is how a RCE partner handles this situation to a tee

I'm not able to see how this is scum indicative and this looks nai to me.

[Adorable]

I'm still not able to understand the town read on Sirius and most of his posts have been fluff.

[Adorable]

Was planning to read over the slots I actually feel actively meh about, and then decide from there. I like to have an actual something to point at for a reason to vote rather than just "idk, feels good enough to me, rng it" and I don't have enough of that for anybody right now.

I noticed you are writing in your thoughts and defending yourself but you haven't been interacting much with players. You also never responded back to me.

[Adorable]

I noticed some players have been town reading Sirius but these posts he made below on day 1 pinged me.

very simple half read list:

artistic boi: very stressed as scum. more prone to theatre. so far so quiet. +town
pink fluff: giant sheep? 128 was some extent to a read BUT only mentions dats/hect/xof/ari/creature? to some extent is always sheeping hect/summer? +scum
bulge boi: really asking other ppl many questions but no... readlists themselves?
heccticc: uh... assuming they are starrling seems very different from starrling from 2175? many reads which im not like 100% sure is a good thing due to town mafia

He called me a giant sheep and then said on my read I only mentioned Datisi, Hectic, xofelf, ari, creature and this looked like a misrep on what Sirius did to me because this post looked like he was talking about my post I made on 128 and I mentioned these were midwaybear's thoughts about the players.

pink fluff and bulge boi tbh?

Why? And I also want to know is petapan the only town read Innocent has and what's the reasoning for the town read.

like it's literally the first post before your last come on

pink fluff: (by red): may be faking newb style
(by giraffe) has a surface level read on them being town
(by me) readlist is a bit focused on specific players easier to push

bulge: teammates have not commented on this. seems to be asking other people questions to push them down a cliff without really reading much

peta: IV still hasnt answered,

but IV has some thoughts. Should I share>

And over here he said my readlist is focused on specific players easier to push. Reck and beeboy were the players I voted on day 1 and from what Sirius is saying is Reck and beeboy are easy players to push. How is beeboy an easy player to push when he flipped scum?

[Adorable]

no.


what i meant is 'Adorable's readlists are focused on several people who they are planning to push later in game because they are easy to push.'


which includes me ig

On day 1 I only gave a list of players I town read and what readlist are you talking about?

[Adorable]

Yawn man. DGB is asking why is xofelf still alive. All their posts so far reek demotivated scum.

Really? My team (Jingle) has told me Hectic's towncase for xof was pretty solid and I think they're just having a hard time engaging here.

I could ass them to my slots to iso but I have a feeling they're going to come out as town.

I read through RCE where he mentioned xofelf. I still don't know what to make of RCE's iso of xofelf and I see he was asking them questions.

On one of my completed scum games from another site before I got lynched with a wagon leading on me I did an iso of my scum buddy and this was for to make my scum buddy look town.

[Adorable]

Hectic what do you think of this post 1559

I only gave a list of players I town read on day 1. I asked him what readlists is he talking about and he ignored me.

[Adorable]

Bulge, the reason I asked you the question I did is because it kind of feels like you're holding yourself back from townreading me, with all these qualifiers of "DV is a very skilled player" etc. that stop something that would otherwise be town about me from being a reason to townread me. What is your basis for being particularly concerned about my ability as scum, compared to other people?

disagree. there have been more posts from you that pinged me in some way than from any of my townreads. there are 3 main reasons why you are not a scumread. the way you pressured RCE is one of them, and would be the most impressive part of your play if you do flip red. but a doomed slot is a doomed slot, and I think we both come from an era of mafia where there are no holds barred when it comes to bussing a partner replacing in like that (daytalk made all the scum on this site soft!). I also really liked the way you tried to squeeze content out of creature, but with him in my top scumreads I have to consider the possibility of his buddies coming in to bail him out of a content hole. finally, painting yourself into a corner saying you will likely end up townreading me upon review was a good look for you, but these are only words. So yea, there are things holding me back, but I don't know where you get the impression that I should have you higher on my list?

= I don't like these takes actually. the Deas/Creature partners scenario is so unlikely that it feels more like a filler thought process, rather than something that should be more than very negligible in Bulge's head

= bussing is one thing, but it's about the manner in which you bus and reasons given

= is it? why can't he just review you and then say he changed his mind or came to a different conclusion? town could easily think they'll do one thing after review but land on another. feels like another fabricated read. POSSIBLY

Bulge is one of those players I haven't been able to get a town read on and I can follow you on that.

VOTE: The Bulge

[Adorable]

I didn't even know that was L-1.

[Adorable]

VOTE: sirius

I thought peta faked a crumb here because of the scum informed goon. I have a theory this may have factored into why he was killed first, if scum thought this was the psych/doc crumb

I see. So that's why you voted petapan on day 1 since you must have thought petapan was an informed scum who knew there was a psychologist when they posted get psyched.

UNVOTE:

[Adorable]

This question is for both Bulge and Hectic since Bulge has Creature low on the their readlist and Hectic is voting Creature.

After RCEnigma claimed, the votes got switched to Ydrasse and I saw Creature did not believe RCEnigma's claim and he voted RCEnigma and RCEnigma was the counter wagon to Ydrasse. Does scum actually vote their scum buddy after the fake claim while other players vote another wagon? I wasn't expecting scum to do that and that's what made me lean town on Creature.

[Adorable]

I log in and I see that my name is being mentioned. I need to catch up first to see what's going on.

[Adorable]

I need to give my thoughts out if I do get mislynched today. Also, Akarin read my game for the first time yesterday since I said in my team chat I have been scum reading a some players but my scum reads have been getting town read and i get the feeling I might have been town reading scum players. A part of me still thinks I might have been on the right track on my read.

I'll paraphrase on what Akarin said in my chat.

[Adorable]

Akarin said some really interesting takes and I'll try to write them down as much as I can since she said alot of stuff.

[Adorable]

Hectic, Datisi, Reckoner, Ydrasse, DV, Ari, Creature

These were the players I was town reading after the scum flip and these were the players I was scum reading underneath

xofelf, Sirius

Bulge was on my null and that was why I voted them since I wasn't town reading them. I'm starting to worry I might have been town reading scum if I am wrong on my scum reads. Now that Bulge made a claim that looked believable I have them as town. I also reevaluated my read on Creature when I saw your response about Creature and I will write down the stuff Akarin said.

[Adorable]

Just to let you guys know it will take me somewhere around an hour for me to paraphrase everything since it's long.

[Adorable]

These are the list of players she town read which are Bulge, Hectic, Ydrasse, Datisi and prob Reck. With those players on town read she said the players in the pool would be Sirius, Ari, Creature, xofelf, DV.

This is what Akarin said about Creature. She said there were alot of weird interactions around beeboy, and she said it looked like the scumteam knew he was going down and then she started to wonder how much did they try to save him, if at all and then she thinks one might have bussed. Akarin said Creatures off-and on approach feels like he might be the scum that tries to save beeboy but then Creature pushes RCE after his claim while others are counterwagoning Ydrasse. I asked yesterday if scum does a move like that and this was when Akarin was not caught up at the time.

People I don't want to elim today:

Sirius, Aristophanes, Creature, xofelf, Adorable, xRECKONERx, RCEnigma (there's no real point in an elimination here right now to be honest, regardless of read on the slot)

The rest are potential options in my mind.

Summer Nights is the slot that I feel most indifferent about right now. Pushing there is kind of low value because she's not even really here, but it also feels like the most comfortable place for a vote. And peta voting there is eerie because it was the first thought in my mind when I unvoted as well and a lot of the reasons he has put forward are similar to what I have been thinking.

VOTE: Summer Nights

She said if Bulge claim is true, then the only players DV was willing eliminate on this list were petapan, Hectic, Ydrasse, Bulge, and Datisi, and with her reads, the night 1 flip and the claim, DV was unwilling to vote the entire scumteam and she thinks scum tend to be inclined to put at least 1 of their buddies in their pool, even if they don't vote for them and she guess she'd be less inclined to vote DV.

I said earlier in the game I was leaning town on Ari and Akarin is not and she said if Ari elimination isn't going to go through due to meta + Hectic (which was her take on it) then she says I should vote in Creature, Sirius, xofelf. She also said the argument on Creature being town doesn't make sense from DV and it felt like to her DV is town who sticks their neck out and townblocks the entire scumteam rather than being scum???

[Adorable]

She wrote other stuff and the stuff I paraphrased were more important. I'll finish writing what else she said.

[Adorable]

From earlier she said she was locked into Hectic town and Ydrasse is also pretty town to her. She said with Bulge saying Datisi is town from his claim I don't need to worry about them being scum and if they are alive for a long time then I should start to worry. She also said sheeping Hectic isn't a bad strategy.

This was her guess of a scum team Ari + Creature and she said Sirius is a perfectly fine elim. I was leaning town on Ari and I still wasn't convinced on scum Ari.

[Adorable]

I think Sirius has 4 votes and I have him on the list of players I will vote.

VOTE: Sirius

I don't know how long I will be on or if I will come back later.

[Adorable]

Creature had some weird interactions around beeboy. I also had a feeling scum said in the thread they town read petapan on day 1 and Creature was one of the players who town read petapan on day 1.

VOTE: Creature

[Adorable]

Creature had some weird interactions around beeboy. I also had a feeling scum said in the thread they town read petapan on day 1 and Creature was one of the players who town read petapan on day 1.

VOTE: Creature

Why do you think scum said peta was town

petapan is a really good scum player and he is the kind of player town needs to be cautious on. I was wary of petapan on day 1 worried he would be a deepwolf in the end since I did not have him on my town read and since petapan got killed on day 1 then this made me think he got town read by a scum player.

[Adorable]

Creature had some weird interactions around beeboy. I also had a feeling scum said in the thread they town read petapan on day 1 and Creature was one of the players who town read petapan on day 1.

VOTE: Creature

Why do you think scum said peta was town

petapan is a really good scum player and he is the kind of player town needs to be cautious on. I was wary of petapan on day 1 worried he would be a deepwolf in the end since I did not have him on my town read and since petapan got killed on day 1 then this made me think he got town read by a scum player.

Made an error here and I meant night 1 and not day 1.

[Adorable]

Day 2 was a deadline scramble I think that's the word they call it.

[Adorable]

And it sure felt like trying to get as many claims out in one shot as possible, and I hate that shit.

I felt this very hard and tbh I felt like it was Hectic driving a lot of the chaos.

Jingle put me on to a possible deepwolf there and iirc both Bulge and Sirius mentioned it in passing too.
I may make a case for that finally this phase now that I'm saying something about it because I've felt unease on the slot for a while now but have been letting it ruminate for fear I was totally offbase.

Day 2 was a deadline scramble I think that's the word they call it.

It was. Did you glean any reads from it?

Players no matter what alignment they are always want an elimination. I wasn't able to glean any reads out of this.

[Adorable]

Creature had some weird interactions around beeboy. I also had a feeling scum said in the thread they town read petapan on day 1 and Creature was one of the players who town read petapan on day 1.

VOTE: Creature

Why do you think scum said peta was town

petapan is a really good scum player and he is the kind of player town needs to be cautious on. I was wary of petapan on day 1 worried he would be a deepwolf in the end since I did not have him on my town read and since petapan got killed on day 1 then this made me think he got town read by a scum player.

I'm not sure this answers it for me, why specifically do you think scum called peta town at the start

petapan made so many posts and petapan looks like the type of player scum will throw out a town read on.

[Adorable]

who all is in favour of having me leashed? I'll share my thoughts after I get some responses.

I'm not in favor of having you leashed.

[Adorable]

Would appreciate if you answered the other questions too, Creature.

Also, does anyone have any thoughts on my Creature-dive? Which Recks seems to have missed happening apparently:

You're welcome to continue your promised dives on the three people not in your town list now, as most everyone else has done this game while under mild to moderate pressure without grinding things to a halt!

I feel a headache coming so I'm gonna save looking at Ari/Reck for tomorrow. I've refreshed this page WAY too many times today

I saw your Creature-dive and the part where he said RCE is a liability rather than scum was suspicious since it looked like he knew something about RCE's alignment.

[Adorable]

Hectic is hardvouching Ydrasse

Reckoner is hardvouching xofelf and DeasVail

Unless one of them is scum and/or terribly wrong about their reads, that leaves Adorable and Aristophanes for me

You should be developing your own reads rather than following the reads of the majority because sometimes another town player will be town reading a scum player.

[Adorable]

Also Adorable's vote on RCE D1 looks the most likely a bus considering it was done after the selfvote and never unvoted.

Oh, I explained it after voting

I'm not able to understand what you are saying here. How does that make me scum when I was scum reading Reck and afterwards there was a post Reck said that made me town read them and I voted beeboy next since he was being suspicious.

[Adorable]

Hope you guys actually read my dive on Ari lol

Any thoughts would be nice

I read your dive on Ari and it was really hard for me to follow along and understand on what you were saying. In a world if Ari is scum does he defend me on day 1? I find this really hard to believe scum would defend me on day 1.

[Adorable]

I'm also suspicious of xofelf. They haven't been interacting much with the players and because of this it looks like coasting to me. xofelf was also evasive towards me on day 2 and xofelf saying Ydrasse and Adorable are a team was really bad.

[Adorable]

Aristophanes I want to know what associatives is Dannflor talking about when he mentioned me because he didn't even say much about me and he only says that I am having chats with my team.

[Adorable]

Sirius9121 (0)
Augautus Caesar (0)
Aristophanes (0)
Datisi (0)
Summer Nights (0)
Creature (0)
xofelf (0)
DeasVail (0)
The Bulge (0)
Adorable (0)
petapan (0)
xRECKONERx (0)
beeboy (0)

beeboy is probably someone I wouldn't bother with rn. So the only significant viable scumread I have is Reckoner. Though, Ydrasse and Bulge also should be looked at.

Sirius9121 (0)
Augautus Caesar (0)
Aristophanes (0)
Datisi (0)
Summer Nights (0)
Creature (0)
xofelf (0)
DeasVail (0)
The Bulge (0)
Adorable (0)
petapan (0)
xRECKONERx (0)
beeboy (0)

If beeboy is indeed this frozen as scum then I won't oppose a lynch there but the wagon still looks scummy as hell

I wouldn't oppose lynching them at the end of the day, but so far wagoning beeboy or chauffer look improductive.

VOTE: RCEnigma

atp this slot is a liability

These were the interactions that were weird. Creature put beeboy on red, next he says beeboy is probably someone he wouldn't bother with rn, removes beeboy from red, says if beeboy is frozen as scum then he won't oppose a lynch, repeats and says wagoning beeboy looks improductive, later on he votes RCE. Creature saying if beeboy is frozen as scum not wanting to wagon him saying the wagon looks improductive and then he votes RCE saying the slot is a liability was the part that was weird for me.

[Adorable]

This is the only update I have from my team on day 3. When I saw Ari paraphrasing what Jingle and Dannflor said I asked my team what do they think of the post Ari made when he paraphrased on what Jingle and Dannflor said. The reason why I asked my team what did they think about Ari's paraphrasing of Jingle and Dannflor was because I was really offended by what they said about me and it looked atrocious.

Dunnstral did not read my game and he only had a look at Ari's paraphrasing when I asked my team to have a look at it. Dunnstral said it was high effort for sure and asked me what did I think of Ari before. I said to him on day 1 Ari defended me which made me lean town on him since I don't believe in scum defending me. Dunnstral said the post Ari paraphrased could be high efforting as scum.

midwaybear had a look afterwards and he said Jingle not having a read on me is somewhat reasonable and it was nai for him. About Dannflor, midwaybear asked me what associatives looked bad and then he said to look into the motivations behind on why did Ari decide to post a massive wall like that.

Dunnstral said the motive for Ari to post that is to avoid an elim whether it is towny or scummy is up to debate and he said he didn't have a read there. midwaybear asked me why do I not believe in scum defending me and I said to him that I am an easy push for scum to eliminate since I get scum read alot and midwaybear thinks scum might be scared to push me and would defend me for the towncred. I find it so hard to believe scum would defend me.

[Adorable]

Thank you!

Did you write up 2415 straight after sending 2414?

I originally wrote the Creature and Ari's paraphrase together in one post together and I copied it in case I get automatically get signed out and I didn't want to have to lose everything I wrote and then I decided to post the Creature and Ari paraphrase in separate posts.

[Adorable]

Creature, I want you to explain when you thought beeboy self-voted and how that's been affecting your reads this game.

It was DGB who said Adorable voteparked beeboy after they selfvoted and I didn't bother to check.

This was most likely a mod error because beeboy never voted.

[Adorable]

And how is Puff's vote suspicious when you don't know the purpose of the self-vote, like whether it was a concede/joke/AtE, and so on.

Sounded like a bus.

It was probably an AtE selfvote from RCE.

I don't understand what you are saying here. What ate selfvote are you talking about on RCE? I voted beeboy and when RCE replaced in for beeboy my vote was still on the same slot.

[Adorable]

Looking at Creature's post I see he is suspecting xofelf and I have also been suspecting them which was already explained. It also looks like xofelf is playing careful and cautious.

[Adorable]

I have been suspicious of both Creature and xofelf and I have been thinking one of them is scum and the other town.

[Adorable]

I have been suspicious of both Creature and xofelf and I have been thinking one of them is scum and the other town.

Why do they have to be different alignments? What lead you to this conclusion?

I don't see them both being scum because Creature has been talking about his scum read on xofelf from day 2 and is also doing this on day 3.

[Adorable]

I have been suspicious of both Creature and xofelf and I have been thinking one of them is scum and the other town.

Why do they have to be different alignments? What lead you to this conclusion?

I don't see them both being scum because Creature has been talking about his scum read on xofelf from day 2 and is also doing this on day 3.

This is why I have been thinking one of them is scum and the other town because of this.

[Adorable]

I think we should mass claim today since we have 1 miselim left and if we miselim again the next day town will lose.

[Adorable]

Did an iso scan of RCE for how many times he mentions or addresses each other player.

Datisi 12
DV 10
Hectic 8
Reck 6
Adorable 6
Peta 6
Sirius 4
xofelf 3
Ari 1
Bulge 1
Ydrasse 1
Creature 0

So -- if there was planned scum theater, the only person that could've been part of it is DV. The bulk of RCE's time spent in his brief stint in the game was engaging with DV and Datisi, and Datisi flipped town.

I also think it's worth noting the people that RCE just straight up didn't engage with - Ari, Bulge, and Ydrasse.

I don't know how valuable this is. This is like my third, fourth time rereading RCE's posts. There aren't many of them. Nothing is jumping out at me. Knowing we have some townflips from people I think had weird play around his wagon makes me wonder if the weirdness was the way in which RCE was caught (scum meta on beeboy who never even posted really), versus how much of the weirdness is from potential buddies trying to manuever in the game without looking awkward.

Notes from the re-read:
* DV and RCE's interactions feel weird. After like two RCE posts, DV hops in to unilaterally declare him as scum. Possible bus? In the scum PT: "Just come after me hard before anybody else, I'll fight as hard as I can but I'm probably dead anyway".
* xof's 829 is still so odd to me. I just cannot see scum!xof taking that tone and that angle on that post as RCE's buddy. I'd think scum would want to be committed to a read here on their buddy to get town cred for it. RCE already had a surge of momentum against them, the writing was on the wall, and I'd expect a buddy to either overcommit to the bus or give a full-throated defense as a hail mary. This is neither. (Maybe I'm falling for TSTBS but I think this is something different.)
* petapan unvotes and is quickly followed by DV in the unvote train. Knowing peta was town paints the DV unvote differently... DV unvotes with an empty post, then comes back later to clarify the unvote. Guilty conscience?

There's just so little here. I'm super glad we got a scumbag with the D1 vote but at the same time, the slot has so little there behind it.

If I'm going to erase all my reads and start over today, I think I'm still fully on board with xofelf as town here. The one thing I feel like I CAN glean from the RCE posts is how weird it would be for scum!xof to choose to engage him in that way. If I'm looking for a performative buddy who engaged in a turbo bus for town cred, it's DV. If I'm looking for the obligatory buddy that RCE ignored, it's one of Ari/Bulge/Ydrasse. That would by default put the town bloc I want today to be me/xofelf/Adorable.

@Adorable: With Creature flipping town, what does this do to your read on xof?
@xofelf: What's your current read on DeasVail?
@DV: Apologies if you've explained this before, but what was it about RCE's first half a dozen posts that made you commit so hard to the scumread?

Creature flipping town puts my suspicion back on xofelf. xofelf's approach in this game does look like they are playing careful and cautious and Creature also brought this up last day phase. I also read through RCEnigma's iso where he was asking xofelf questions and I still wonder if that was busywork on what RCEnigma was doing to make his scum buddy look town before he gets eliminated.

[Adorable]

Creature flipping town puts my suspicion back on xofelf. xofelf's approach in this game does look like they are playing careful and cautious and Creature also brought this up last day phase. I also read through RCEnigma's iso where he was asking xofelf questions and I still wonder if that was busywork on what RCEnigma was doing to make his scum buddy look town before he gets eliminated.

What are your reads on the rest of the game outside of xofelf? For convenience:

DV
Reck
Aristophanes
The Bulge
YDrasse

Removing xofelf from the list it would look like this.

Reckoner
DV
Ydrasse/The Bulge
Aristophanes

I was town reading Ari earlier but what I noticed is that he keeps changing his reads list which is suspicious. Like for example he put xofelf as a town lean on day 1, on day 3 he put me as town, xofelf null, later on in day 3 his team mate Dannflor puts xofelf as a town read, me as a scum read, and then later during the same day Ari puts xofelf as scum and says he likes Dannflor's input and am I supposed to believe Dannflor magically puts xofelf as scum when he put xofelf as town earlier? I don't like it when players keep changing their reads on players because it confuses me and it looks like scum flip flopping. The one thing that gives me a pause on Ari is his defeatism.

[Adorable]

Reckoner
DV
Ydrasse/The Bulge
Aristophanes

how the hell am I so low??????

Reckoner talking about your claim is what made me wary of you.

[Adorable]

@Aristophanes Are you even reading my iso or not? I have talked about xofelf so many times in past days and how many times do I have to keep repeating myself? xofelf's approach has been careful and cautious, they're not interacting much with the players, xofelf was evasive towards me on day 2 which was scummy, I also didn't like it when they said on day 1 their reads are gut reads because that can be an easy way for scum to throw out a read.

I even quoted you back on 1609 which was on day 2 I think it was I said I didn't know what to make of RCEnigma's iso of xofelf when he was asking them questions. On one of my completed scum games from another site before I got lynched with a wagon leading on me I did an iso of my scum buddy and this was for to make my scum buddy look town.

I have been consistent for the most part and I don't like it when players keep changing their reads because it confuses me and I have already had to deal with scum players before who change their reads so much.

[Adorable]

(i am mentally drained too)

@adorable: can you explain your progression on me? i don't... remember you taking much of a stance on me ever and like, nothing that low for sure/mentions that would place me there?

With the current players alive I have been town reading Reckoner and has been one of my top town read since day 1 along with Hectic. DV is the second player I have been town reading and you are underneath DV.

[Adorable]

I thought scum was somewhere within (Creature, Sirius, xofelf) and two of the players flipped town.

[Adorable]

I don't mind claiming since I said earlier that I think we should mass claim today since we have 1 miselim left and mass claiming today is good to narrow things down. Some players want a mass claim while others don't want a mass claim and we all need to come to an agreement.

[Adorable]

I'm vt.

And now that leaves xofelf, Ydrasse, and Reckoner.

[Adorable]

I'm glad there's still a week left here because the last post by a player was over a day ago and we have amazingly got no votes down at this point.

I get that xof and Ydrasse are V/LA, but uh...we need to do something here guys.

I thought Ydrasse had claimed VT but I guess not, so I'm honestly okay with them going whenever as well.
I'm surprised nobody (but my own team) corrected me on this. Adorable, you disappeared when I said that and I find that odd. You were around until something came up that you could have straightened out, and then disappeared. Why?
DV, Reck, I'm guessing you missed that error of mine?

If anyone has an issue with me directing the claims, please feel free to step in and do it better. I am merely trying to make something happen to get us a win this game.

Ninja'd
XOF =D

Are you talking about 2650? I don't remember Ydrasse claiming and I don't think she ever claimed. I went to work after I made 2649. Normally when I log in I read the thread and post, I log out and come back later. Even if I was still online I don't see myself responding back to a post like this because this is something that we are all waiting for players to claim.

[Adorable]

After the mass claim this has made me reevaluate. I have been suspicious of Ari today and DV also made some good points saying he was wondering if it is Ydrasse/Reckoner and I never even thought about this. I don't like how Ari says it's me/Ydrasse because that team makes no sense. It's like as if Ari is saying scum Ydrasse defended scum Adorable on day 1 and continues to defend her on day 1, scum Ydrasse votes scum beeboy and refuses to defend scum beeboy.

[Adorable]

After the mass claim this has made me reevaluate. I have been suspicious of Ari today and DV also made some good points saying he was wondering if it is Ydrasse/Reckoner and I never even thought about this. I don't like how Ari says it's me/Ydrasse because that team makes no sense. It's like as if Ari is saying scum Ydrasse defended scum Adorable on day 1 and continues to defend her on day 1, scum Ydrasse votes scum beeboy and refuses to defend scum beeboy.

Adorable, why do you think scum would try hard to defend beeboy?

Also, if you were scum, why would your buddy bus you? You were never dead in the water like beeboy was

No one hard defended beeboy. I consider hard defending is when a player refuses that player to be eliminated saying that there is nothing scummy about the player and would also try to get votes on another player. That is hard defending.

If I were scum I would think my buddy would bus me for being suspected by other players.

[Adorable]

Hectic calls me Puff and I remember on day 3 he said that I am definitely not consensus poe and he didn't want the players to touch me and then the next day comes with Hectic dead, Ari takes the lead asking for a mass claim and says I may be the best elim for today with flimsy reasoning. I start to wonder if the Hectic kill points to Ari scum.

[Adorable]

@Aristophanes To answer your question DV wondered if the team is Ydrasse/Reckoner and now that I think on it more, Reckoner says he didn't like Ydrasse fluffing and even though he didn't like her fluff and when she got some votes on her on day 2 Reckoner still kept his vote on you. DV has been my town read since day 1 and after the mass claim I see that the vt claims are the poe to the point when I don't even know who the scum are within the vt claims because I have been town reading them from earlier which means I have been wrongly town reading scum who are somewhere hidden in the vt claims.

I'm not able to understand on what you are saying on the Adorable/Ydrasse anti-associatives and I'm guessing you meant about me saying that the team makes no sense and you wanted to know if there is another reason why that team makes no sense. I pretty much said earlier why the team makes no sense and there is nothing more to it. Scum should never defend their scum buddy because when one of them flips scum then that will make the other scum look bad and will get outed the next day.

[Adorable]

After the mass claim this has made me reevaluate. I have been suspicious of Ari today and DV also made some good points saying he was wondering if it is Ydrasse/Reckoner and I never even thought about this. I don't like how Ari says it's me/Ydrasse because that team makes no sense. It's like as if Ari is saying scum Ydrasse defended scum Adorable on day 1 and continues to defend her on day 1, scum Ydrasse votes scum beeboy and refuses to defend scum beeboy.

I'm also going to quote this too which also makes the beeboy/Ydrasse/Adorable team being weird and makes no sense because Ydrasse defended me on day 1 and did not defend beeboy.

[Adorable]

After the mass claim this has made me reevaluate. I have been suspicious of Ari today and DV also made some good points saying he was wondering if it is Ydrasse/Reckoner and I never even thought about this. I don't like how Ari says it's me/Ydrasse because that team makes no sense. It's like as if Ari is saying scum Ydrasse defended scum Adorable on day 1 and continues to defend her on day 1, scum Ydrasse votes scum beeboy and refuses to defend scum beeboy.

I'm also going to quote this too which also makes the beeboy/Ydrasse/Adorable team being weird and makes no sense because Ydrasse defended me on day 1 and did not defend beeboy.

Why are you so focused on the Ydrasse/beeboy pairing?

Ari is saying it's me/Ydrasse and I was explaining the team doesn't make sense and I also brought up beeboy since I remember on day 1 Ydrasse defended me and she didn't defend beeboy.

[Adorable]

On day 1 after RCEnigma fake claimed vig DV and Reckoner both unvoted him and voted Ydrasse. I think it would make more sense for scum to not vote Ydrasse after RCEnigma's fake claim because if Ydrasse did get eliminated on day 1 then that would mean RCEnigma would have been outed on day 2 which would mean the last scum would most likely have to solo for so many days and this makes me think Ari is the last scum because of this. There were some posts Ari made that were really suspicious and I'll do an iso of them when I'm done with work since I'm on my work break right now.

[Adorable]

Here is the iso on Ari that looked suspicious to me. This will probably come out messy since I'm not good with multiquoting.

Sure, what's up?

What don't you like?

I've been talking with the team and well, I tihnk we've landed on an Ydrasse townread. Her posts are just too laid back in a lot of ways to be coming from scum, almost as if she's not worried about how she looks.

I get that she's a lot of filler fluff but there's also a lot there to work with and I don't think this is a game where filler fluff is a good idea for scum. I just don't really see it after looking at it with this in mind.

It shows here Ari is town reading Ydrasse with his team on day 2.

Deas is town. What can we do now with a tight time?

VOTE: Ydrasse?

Out of nowhere Ari votes Ydrasse on day 2 when he earlier put Ydrasse as town. There was two votes on Ydrasse on day 2 earlier and why vote Ydrasse at this point when the votes got switched to someone else?

Well that's a flip I didn't see coming.

Uhmm...what does it say about Bulge, both having Psychs?

Hectic was an outside scumread but still.
The recent deaths lwave {adorable, xof, ydrasse} which isna weird trio.
Ydrasse seems both likely and unlikely, the latter due to Hectic's flip.

Imma think on this.

This was after Hectic's death and I find this strange Ari said Ydrasse seems both likely and unlikely due to Hectic's flip when on day 3 Hectic said I am definitely not poe consensus and he slowly started to consider Ydrasse as poe.

@Aristophanes Are you even reading my iso or not? I have talked about xofelf so many times in past days and how many times do I have to keep repeating myself? xofelf's approach has been careful and cautious, they're not interacting much with the players, xofelf was evasive towards me on day 2 which was scummy, I also didn't like it when they said on day 1 their reads are gut reads because that can be an easy way for scum to throw out a read.

I even quoted you back on 1609 which was on day 2 I think it was I said I didn't know what to make of RCEnigma's iso of xofelf when he was asking them questions. On one of my completed scum games from another site before I got lynched with a wagon leading on me I did an iso of my scum buddy and this was for to make my scum buddy look town.

I have been consistent for the most part and I don't like it when players keep changing their reads because it confuses me and I have already had to deal with scum players before who change their reads so much.

This is all great and I appreciate the reiteration of the reasons for the read. I was basically asking why and if anything had changed, which it obviously has not. Thanks!

I don't think it's very common for scum to do that Iso strat and it's a lot of Wine which I don't think is worth reading into but I guess it's fine that you stuck with it. I was hoping for something more recent/relevant but so be it.

As for changing reads, I mean, uh...Like honestly I don't know what to tell you here. My reads have been fluid and have been evolving. It's a good sign from most players when that happens. Like , I'm sorry that it confuses you, honestly. And I'm sorry you scumread it due to past experience, just like the Iso thing. But like, I'm not changing reads in order to confuse anyone, and if anything it leaves me more open to scrutiny. If I hadn't changed these reads, I'dstill be null on xof, you and Ydrasse would still be town, Reck would be lockscum, as would Bulge, etc.
Like, is that a healthy gamestate? Is that really what towns should do??

I really don't like this at all tbh and I think you may be the best elim for today, all things considered.
Consider this a vote for you, which is more being placed officially yet such that massclaim can happen when more people finally get here.

This was on day 4 and why did Ari feel the need to be so defensive towards me? Ari has been changing his reads too much while I have been consistent on my reads and Ari said that I am the best elim for day 4 because of this. How is being consistent scummy?

i am vt, ari, where did you think i claimed at?

Honestly I don't know. I just thought you had claimed VT already.

The following I had redacted earlier:
"Honestly I wasn't expecting the mason claim from you xof, I was wrong. But this is good shit and takes one more slot out of consideration. It makes a lot of sense with your play

It's Adorable/Ydrasse but we need the final claim."

I'll chat with the team here but the claims make Bulge's seem legit and I really thought Reck was the mason but he's town regardless. DV is strongly town and Xof is obvtown. For me it has to be Adorable/Ydrasse.

Ari putting me in front of Ydrasse making it look like Adorable/Ydrasse instead of Ydrasse/Adorable is also suspicious. When scum makes a list of team pairings they would often put town on the left and their scum buddy on the right.

viewtopic.php?f=2&t=82679 In this game I linked where I was scum who made fake team pairing I literally put a town player on the left and my scum buddy on the right.

I'm to the point that I'm not sure what to do here.

Bulge and xof are off the table entirely. I'm obviously not including myself in the scumpool.

Out of DV, Reck, Ydrasse, and Adorable, it seems so obvious to me.
Reck was town enough I thought he was the Mason, as did just about everyone here. I know he's eligible for scum, but that's not something I ever see here.
DV could be scum I guess, but he's not even someone we should consider for today because he has been very towny throughout the game with his thoughts, input, questioning, etc.
Ydrasse has been scummy all game. Countless times I've had scumreads on her and I can find multiple examples of her being scumread by my team as well.

Ari said on day 4 Ydrasse has been scummy all game saying countless times you had scumreads on her and by your team but on day 2 you said you and your team mate had a town read on Ydrasse and I quoted this above earlier so what you are saying in this post is a lie.

[Adorable]

On day 1 after RCEnigma fake claimed vig DV and Reckoner both unvoted him and voted Ydrasse. I think it would make more sense for scum to not vote Ydrasse after RCEnigma's fake claim because if Ydrasse did get eliminated on day 1 then that would mean RCEnigma would have been outed on day 2 which would mean the last scum would most likely have to solo for so many days and this makes me think Ari is the last scum because of this. There were some posts Ari made that were really suspicious and I'll do an iso of them when I'm done with work since I'm on my work break right now.

Ari looks like the last scum to me because of this post and the iso I made. My team also agree with me.

[Adorable]

On day 1 after RCEnigma fake claimed vig DV and Reckoner both unvoted him and voted Ydrasse. I think it would make more sense for scum to not vote Ydrasse after RCEnigma's fake claim because if Ydrasse did get eliminated on day 1 then that would mean RCEnigma would have been outed on day 2 which would mean the last scum would most likely have to solo for so many days and this makes me think Ari is the last scum because of this. There were some posts Ari made that were really suspicious and I'll do an iso of them when I'm done with work since I'm on my work break right now.

This is the best case for Reck-town that I've heard, and something I quite strongly considered before deciding that I believed Reck to be scum. Much like my reason for initially thinking that RCE and Ydrasse could have been scum together, I believe that once peta and I voted for Summer Nights, there were no other real wagon opportunities for scum that day. Being a third scum in that scenario would be AWKWARD. How do you even respond to that situation? If Summer Nights is eliminated and other scum stayed on RCE then they risk looking bad, just as trying to elim Summer Nights risks looking bad if RCE is eliminated. And I get your point. Is it worth the risk of potentially contributing to a Summer Nights elim? At the very least two town members in me and peta initially backing off the RCE elim because of the claim grants permission for others to do the same. And I'm not sure that I expect a third scum in that situation to actually be entirely logical and measured in what they are doing. If I were in that situation I would be freaking out in the scum PT absolutely not knowing what to do.

I still think it's a decent point in favour of Reck-town.

But similarly I am hesitant about Ari being scum. I think Ari as scum trying to push a massclaim through despite it being unpopular to multiple town members is VERY BOLD for Ari as scum. In Day 1, Ari hard-defended beeboy when there was little benefit for scum in doing so, and Day 4 busses Ydrasse, when if Ari is scum there are actual other elim options. For example, trying to elim me before Ydrasse makes a lot more sense. I know it hasn't necessarily happened here, but scum could easily think that a Ydrasse scum-flip makes me a lot harder to elim. Getting me eliminated first makes a lot of sense imo, especially with Reck getting suspicious of me Day 4. Why go for Ydrasse there?

(On that note I think it's bizarre that I'm still considered potential scum after the Ydrasse scumflip after I pushed both RCE and Ydrasse as scumreads to quite a strong degree, but that's another thing entirely)

I saw your reasoning on why you scum read Reckoner and I can see what you mean. Since you think Reckoner is scum why would scum Reckoner vote Ydrasse instead of voting elsewhere?

[Adorable]

On day 1 after RCEnigma fake claimed vig DV and Reckoner both unvoted him and voted Ydrasse. I think it would make more sense for scum to not vote Ydrasse after RCEnigma's fake claim because if Ydrasse did get eliminated on day 1 then that would mean RCEnigma would have been outed on day 2 which would mean the last scum would most likely have to solo for so many days and this makes me think Ari is the last scum because of this. There were some posts Ari made that were really suspicious and I'll do an iso of them when I'm done with work since I'm on my work break right now.

This is the best case for Reck-town that I've heard, and something I quite strongly considered before deciding that I believed Reck to be scum. Much like my reason for initially thinking that RCE and Ydrasse could have been scum together, I believe that once peta and I voted for Summer Nights, there were no other real wagon opportunities for scum that day. Being a third scum in that scenario would be AWKWARD. How do you even respond to that situation? If Summer Nights is eliminated and other scum stayed on RCE then they risk looking bad, just as trying to elim Summer Nights risks looking bad if RCE is eliminated. And I get your point. Is it worth the risk of potentially contributing to a Summer Nights elim? At the very least two town members in me and peta initially backing off the RCE elim because of the claim grants permission for others to do the same. And I'm not sure that I expect a third scum in that situation to actually be entirely logical and measured in what they are doing. If I were in that situation I would be freaking out in the scum PT absolutely not knowing what to do.

I still think it's a decent point in favour of Reck-town.

But similarly I am hesitant about Ari being scum. I think Ari as scum trying to push a massclaim through despite it being unpopular to multiple town members is VERY BOLD for Ari as scum. In Day 1, Ari hard-defended beeboy when there was little benefit for scum in doing so, and Day 4 busses Ydrasse, when if Ari is scum there are actual other elim options. For example, trying to elim me before Ydrasse makes a lot more sense. I know it hasn't necessarily happened here, but scum could easily think that a Ydrasse scum-flip makes me a lot harder to elim. Getting me eliminated first makes a lot of sense imo, especially with Reck getting suspicious of me Day 4. Why go for Ydrasse there?

(On that note I think it's bizarre that I'm still considered potential scum after the Ydrasse scumflip after I pushed both RCE and Ydrasse as scumreads to quite a strong degree, but that's another thing entirely)

I saw your reasoning on why you scum read Reckoner and I can see what you mean. Since you think Reckoner is scum why would scum Reckoner vote Ydrasse instead of voting elsewhere?

I'm talking about day 1 over here and I forgot to put that down.

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My internet was not working and I see I got prodded yesterday. I hope I made it back in time and I'll catch up from where I left off.

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From my iso I made on Ari he has been suspicious which has made me think he is the last scum. DV also made some good points on Reck too. I do remember when there was a wagon on Reck on day 1 Ydrasse did not vote him and I see that she immediately voted beeboy when a wagon started on him and she also immediately voted Ari when there was a wagon on him on day 2 I think it was or was it day 3. I have also been wondering if Ydrasse is a busser. I see myself leaning more on voting Ari and I hope I am right on him being scum.

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I'm conflicted. DV has been making good points and the more I see DV post, the more it is making me lean towards scum Reck.

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Ari I have a question. On 1618 which was on day 2 you put a town read on Ydrasse and then later on day 2 out of nowhere you voted Ydrasse on 1982. Why did you vote someone you put a town read on? When I read through your iso I was not able to find your read change on Ydrasse.

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How much time do we have left? I checked the vote count and last time it shows was on March 19 with 5 days left.

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Nvm. I read it wrong earlier and I thought it said 5 days left on March 19. I checked again and looks like we have 5 days left on today's date.

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Ari can you link me a completed scum game of yours where you got eliminated?

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I'm leaning on voting Reckoner. DV's points on him were really good. I have also been sus of Ari's play and I noticed he is being defeatism which is really weird for scum to do. I skimmed through Ari's completed scum games and I saw a game where he was also being defeatism as scum and it seems like Ari being defeatism is nai. He also wanted a mass claim here and in one of his completed scum games I saw he was also up for a mass claim and that is also nai.

I have also been worried that there was scum theatre going on between Ydrasse and Ari. Another reason why I'm also leaning on voting Reckoner is because when I asked Ari why did he vote Ydrasse on day 2 when he said he earlier town read her on day 2 I thought the answer Ari gave me looked reasonable.

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I'm leaning on voting Reckoner. DV's points on him were really good. I have also been sus of Ari's play and I noticed he is being defeatism which is really weird for scum to do. I skimmed through Ari's completed scum games and I saw a game where he was also being defeatism as scum and it seems like Ari being defeatism is nai. He also wanted a mass claim here and in one of his completed scum games I saw he was also up for a mass claim and that is also nai.

I have also been worried that there was scum theatre going on between Ydrasse and Ari. Another reason why I'm also leaning on voting Reckoner is because when I asked Ari why did he vote Ydrasse on day 2 when he said he earlier town read her on day 2 I thought the answer Ari gave me looked reasonable.

I am not scum, you are going to be wrong on me. What points of DV's did you think were really good?

I'm confused by your analysis of Ari's play though. You say that he's being defeatist, but it would be weird for scum to be defeatist, yet your meta of Ari is that he was defeatist as scum before? Why is that NAI?

Like everything you pointed out about Ari is "Well, he did this thing here, and he also did it this other time as scum, so it's NAI". I don't think meta has value, but isn't that the exact OPPOSITE of true?

These were the posts DV made that looked good.
2795
2870
2892

About Ari being defeatist I saw one of his completed scum game where he was being defeatist. I have not checked most of his town games and I'm assuming he is also defeatist as town. I remember one of DV's reasoning for town reading Ari was because of him being defeatist and when I looked through some of Ari's scum games that is nai from Ari.

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I'm leaning on voting Reckoner. DV's points on him were really good. I have also been sus of Ari's play and I noticed he is being defeatism which is really weird for scum to do. I skimmed through Ari's completed scum games and I saw a game where he was also being defeatism as scum and it seems like Ari being defeatism is nai. He also wanted a mass claim here and in one of his completed scum games I saw he was also up for a mass claim and that is also nai.

I have also been worried that there was scum theatre going on between Ydrasse and Ari. Another reason why I'm also leaning on voting Reckoner is because when I asked Ari why did he vote Ydrasse on day 2 when he said he earlier town read her on day 2 I thought the answer Ari gave me looked reasonable.

I am not scum, you are going to be wrong on me. What points of DV's did you think were really good?

I'm confused by your analysis of Ari's play though. You say that he's being defeatist, but it would be weird for scum to be defeatist, yet your meta of Ari is that he was defeatist as scum before? Why is that NAI?

Like everything you pointed out about Ari is "Well, he did this thing here, and he also did it this other time as scum, so it's NAI". I don't think meta has value, but isn't that the exact OPPOSITE of true?

These were the posts DV made that looked good.
2795
2870
2892

About Ari being defeatist I saw one of his completed scum game where he was being defeatist. I have not checked most of his town games and I'm assuming he is also defeatist as town. I remember one of DV's reasoning for town reading Ari was because of him being defeatist and when I looked through some of Ari's scum games that is nai from Ari.

What I'm saying is that you're reading something Ari does as scum as NAI without ever seeing him do it as town. That's really strange to me.

What about those DV posts looked good to you?

I said earlier I noticed Ari is being defeatist which is weird for scum to do. What I meant here is I did not think scum would be defeatist like what Ari is doing which made me think this comes from town. When I looked through some of Ari's completed scum games I saw a scum game of his where he was being defeatist and I learned this is nai from him. If I didn't look through some his completed scum games then I would have thought that was town indicative from him.

The posts from DV it looked like you and Ydrasse are scum buddies.

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I'm leaning on voting Reckoner. DV's points on him were really good. I have also been sus of Ari's play and I noticed he is being defeatism which is really weird for scum to do. I skimmed through Ari's completed scum games and I saw a game where he was also being defeatism as scum and it seems like Ari being defeatism is nai. He also wanted a mass claim here and in one of his completed scum games I saw he was also up for a mass claim and that is also nai.

I have also been worried that there was scum theatre going on between Ydrasse and Ari. Another reason why I'm also leaning on voting Reckoner is because when I asked Ari why did he vote Ydrasse on day 2 when he said he earlier town read her on day 2 I thought the answer Ari gave me looked reasonable.

I am not scum, you are going to be wrong on me. What points of DV's did you think were really good?

I'm confused by your analysis of Ari's play though. You say that he's being defeatist, but it would be weird for scum to be defeatist, yet your meta of Ari is that he was defeatist as scum before? Why is that NAI?

Like everything you pointed out about Ari is "Well, he did this thing here, and he also did it this other time as scum, so it's NAI". I don't think meta has value, but isn't that the exact OPPOSITE of true?

These were the posts DV made that looked good.
2795
2870
2892

About Ari being defeatist I saw one of his completed scum game where he was being defeatist. I have not checked most of his town games and I'm assuming he is also defeatist as town. I remember one of DV's reasoning for town reading Ari was because of him being defeatist and when I looked through some of Ari's scum games that is nai from Ari.

What I'm saying is that you're reading something Ari does as scum as NAI without ever seeing him do it as town. That's really strange to me.

What about those DV posts looked good to you?

I said earlier I noticed Ari is being defeatist which is weird for scum to do. What I meant here is I did not think scum would be defeatist like what Ari is doing which made me think this comes from town. When I looked through some of Ari's completed scum games I saw a scum game of his where he was being defeatist and I learned this is nai from him. If I didn't look through some his completed scum games then I would have thought that was town indicative from him.

The posts from DV it looked like you and Ydrasse are scum buddies.

and what did you think of my response to DV's earlier post

viewtopic.php?p=12659785#p12659785

You said you warned if Ydrasse got to L-1 you would hammer and this is nai. I remember a completed game I have here there was a wagon on a scum player and his scum buddy said the same thing you said about Ydrasse.

The part where you said this could have been a bus from Ari I have also been worrying about that too since Ydrasse did not defend herself and the fact that she did not defend herself means her scum buddy voted her and it looked like she was confident her scum buddy would carry the win for the scum team.

You said you did a reread on RCE when you made 2596 which looked really analytical and I liked it. Normally town players are analytical but I have also met a scum player who is also analytical which I don't very often see.

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So after reading that, are you more convinced by me or by DV? Why? Why not?

I'm more convinced by DV because of his posts he made on 2795, 2870, and 2892 which looked like you and Ydrasse are scum buddies.

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There's not much time left and I will have to make a vote now. Let's hope he flips scum.

VOTE: xRECKONERx