Mini Theme 2198: Animals Upick 2 [Game Over]

[Smoke and Mirrors]

Hydra Key

I believe all hydras are signing as themselves:
Superb Subtlety (alisae + jjh)
Smoke and Mirrors (Nancy Drew 39 + Pooky)

Mod confirmation: Mad Hatters Tea Party and Noraabear are not Hydras

Comods can Ego after this post

You could also have it as Pooky: Smoke and me: Mirrors. We sign as either those or our mains.

[Smoke and Mirrors]

WHO IS READY TO HAVE SOME FUN!?!?!?!??!?!?!?!?!?!?



POST YOUR BEST KOALA GIFS LETS HAVE A GIF-OFF

[Smoke and Mirrors]

I’m sad I didn’t get to be town dolphin again but this will have to suffice.

[Smoke and Mirrors]

It's KOALA TIIIIIIMEEEEEEEEE

[Smoke and Mirrors]

Hey, all.

I’m your Inexperience-Challenged (IC) player in this game. As the IC, I have to adhere to specific guidelines as listed in Being a Good IC. In short, my job is to answer any questions you might have about game mechanics and theory; and, in doing so I will never intentionally misguide you.

However, it is important to note that I am also a player in this game, and I do have to play to achieve my win condition (wincon). I have just as much likelihood of being mafia as anybody else here.

Some links you might want to read up on first:
Glossary
Commonly Used Abbreviations
Newbie Guide
A Beginner’s Guide to Being Awesome At Mafia

There are a few key concepts to discuss before we get started to help you better understand the site meta:

Site Meta

Meta is the description of how people on Mafiascum like to play mafia. Things can be different on other online mafia sites, or if you play IRL, so it's good to know what's expected of you on this site. These aren't "rules", per se, but if you don't follow these guidelines it is likely things will go poorly for you on MS. Some examples are...

Random Voting Stage (RVS)

Games on MafiaScum almost always begin with what we call the Random Voting Stage (RVS). At this point in the game, we are in a low information game state (except the mafia, which know everyone’s alignment). As a way to provoke reaction, start a discussion, and try to determine alignment, people will usually vote for non-serious reasons. As the discussion progresses, we will eventually get the game moving and progress out of RVS.

Voting, E-x, and Hammers

E-x is a way to convey how far away a player is away from elimination. For example, you should always announce that you are putting someone at E-1 (1 vote away from an elimination) so that someone doesn’t come along and accidentally vote for that player's elimination. This also prevents Mafia-aligned players from coming along and placing the final vote to eliminate (“hammer”) and claiming ignorance about doing so. You may also see E-2 and E-3 (2 votes away from elimination and 3 votes away from elimination, respectively).

Before you hammer a player, state your intent to hammer (usually done in bold) and ask the player to claim their role. This is done to prevent power roles from being eliminated, and can sometimes get Mafia-aligned players to be caught (via counter claiming). It's best to then allow other players to react and discuss the claim before hammering.

Claiming Your Role

It is almost always best to not claim your role unless you are at E-1 and have been asked to claim as part of an “intent to hammer.” This is because, as a town power role (“PR”), if you out prematurely, you are likely to be night-killed (“NK’d”). As a Vanilla Townie (“VT”), claiming early helps the mafia team narrow down the setup and possible PR candidates. An exception to this would be if a mafia player claimed your role, claiming early to counter the false claim (“CC”) would out the mafia player, and would be a benefit to the town.

Do not fake claim a power role as town!

While it may help you avoid getting eliminated, you might cause a real PR to out themselves by counterclaiming - then the mafia will know who the PR is, and you will probably get eliminated for lying to town. Feel free to fake a claim as scum, though, if you think it would help.

ELo

ELo is the shortened representation of “Eliminate or Lose.” ELo in the Newbie Queue is when there are 3 remaining players, 2 of which are town and 1 is mafia; or when there are 5 remaining players, 3 of which are town and 2 are mafia. It is important in these situations that the town aligned players do not carelessly vote like is done during RVS or early days, as the mafia player(s) can organize and instantly provide the necessary votes to eliminate (“quickhammer”) and win the game.

Conclusion

Mafia is hard!

As town, it can be hard to figure things out, and stressful when people think you're scum.

That's okay!

Just share your thoughts on who you think is scum as they come to you, and don't be afraid to change your mind. As scum, it can be hard to lie convincingly, and stressful when people think you're scum. Don't let that scare you! Try to think of what you would post if you were town, and don't be afraid to "change your mind".

This is a game.

Have fun!

I actually had to check the thread to make sure this wasn’t the newbie queue.

[Smoke and Mirrors]

Any thoughts on claiming what animals we chose?

Why not?

[Smoke and Mirrors]

waaaaay too many koala gifs for my liking.

this is unacceptable pengy

[Smoke and Mirrors]

waaaaay too many koala gifs for my liking.

[Smoke and Mirrors]

waaaaay too many koala gifs for my liking.

this is unacceptable pengy

VOTE: Penguin

Call me Batman

[Smoke and Mirrors]

DOES ANYONE WANT TO PLAY A GAME!?!?!?

[Smoke and Mirrors]

the best game ever invented obviously

[Smoke and Mirrors]

LET'S PLAY KOALAWANG!!!!

[Smoke and Mirrors]

[Smoke and Mirrors]

i don't like this game

I WILL DAYVIG YOU

[Smoke and Mirrors]

oh

it's a real game

[Smoke and Mirrors]

I give this an 8/10

[Smoke and Mirrors]

koalawang is the best game ever

only evil scumbags would be scared to participate.

true story

[Smoke and Mirrors]

There sure are a lot of scared scumbags who are afraid to play Koalawang.


~Pooky

[Smoke and Mirrors]

I actually had to check the thread to make sure this wasn’t the newbie queue.

well that sounds fake as hell.
VOTE: Smoke and Mirrors

I was joking.

[Smoke and Mirrors]

LET'S PLAY KOALAWANG!!!!

[Smoke and Mirrors]

i don't like this game

It’s the best game ever. Yelp gives it 5 stars.

It will help us to find scum, what’s not to like?

[Smoke and Mirrors]

KOALAWANG

A ROUND OF KOALAWANG HAS BEGUN

Users may participate in koalawang by submitting gifs of koalas in the main game thread.

See what I mean. Koala gifs can only be a good thing,

[Smoke and Mirrors]

I like this. <3

[Smoke and Mirrors]

what is koalawang? do we get a prize?

That’s up to the mod but we were instructed that we had to play it in the first 72 hrs.

[Smoke and Mirrors]

LET'S PLAY KOALAWANG!!!!

I'm assuming Koalawang is either useless or good. If it's bad why would someone want to openly start it in thread

that's true, Smoke and Mirrors started it so maybe he can explain.

We weren’t actually told the specifics, only that he had to play in the first 72 hrs and maybe the best koala gifs nets you Krazybucks or something? It’s a Krazy game, so probably something really good for the winner, probably?

[Smoke and Mirrors]

A gentle reminder for hydras to sign when possible and to specify which head will not be signing if one head will be signing less frequently.

I’m the fun, entertaining one.

~Nancy aka Mirrors

[Smoke and Mirrors]

Rather early for a locktown read isn't it, Mastina? Though I do admire your commitment to a read.

Hey in this game I've extra incentive to.

But, if it makes you feel better, I'm not gonna be lighting the way for you; I'm more interested in lighting the way and guiding Smoke/Mirrors, working with them side by side.

Krazy gave us the funnest role in this entire game. It’s sort of a cross between PA and LNT but much cuter.

[Smoke and Mirrors]

[Smoke and Mirrors]

what is koalawang? do we get a prize?

That’s up to the mod but we were instructed that we had to play it in the first 72 hrs.

Actually, we decide that. Hype! or if we don’t it ends at noon tomorrow apparently.

@Pooky aka Smoke, who are the top contenders so far?

I feel like a kindler gentler version of Simon Cowell.

[Smoke and Mirrors]

Players who refuse to participate may face consequences.

Everyone must play.

~Nancy aka Anne Robinson/Jane Lynch

[Smoke and Mirrors]

@Pooky aka Smoke, who are the top contenders so far?

Pengy is in the early lead with 45 points.

[Smoke and Mirrors]

Is it a one time thing?

you will find out if we play tomorrow ! :3

[Smoke and Mirrors]

i am a dragon fly,

ninja visitor

,kinda useless from my pov, and i have no intention of putting that much effort into this game, so go forth with my fade

Ninja visitor?

Why are you so eager to get faded?

[Smoke and Mirrors]

Goodnight all

Penguin has awesome taste. <3 Keep it up the good work people. I think that one’s my current fave. Why isn’t everyone participating?

We have a maximum of 72 hrs total to play this, so I will be - whatever’s the Koalawang equivalent of prodding -non-participants in approximately 22 hrs or less.

[Smoke and Mirrors]

If the king doesn’t win koalawang the king May feast on some koalas

[Smoke and Mirrors]

Spoiler: Here's another gif to make Smoke & Mirrors feel better about nobody participating :(

Great one @Raya, You’re giving Penguin some serious competition here.

[Smoke and Mirrors]

Spoiler: Here's another gif to make Smoke & Mirrors feel better about nobody participating :(

Great one @Raya, You’re giving Penguin some serious competition here.

Sorry @Raya, I have to disqualify it.:/. Pengun’s already posted it, so please post a different one. Thanks. <3

[Smoke and Mirrors]

THAT WAS MY GIF

AHHHHHHHHH

Everyone please check the gifs already posted. While you will get points for efforting and avoid the grave penalty of being koalawhacked, you need to post an previously unposted gif to actually win.

[Smoke and Mirrors]

OFFICIAL KOALAWANG LEADERBOARD

Those who are scared of participating are likely scum!

~Pooky

[Smoke and Mirrors]

the scum are shaking in fear of Detective Koala.

[Smoke and Mirrors]

One does wonder, perhaps, due to the multiple stages of the day phase that there may well be mechanical tomfoolery about to happen.

I do have some - if incredibly minor - reads, and I do believe that Koalawang has proven to be a successful distraction from the primary matter. I should also dare wonder if - and I may be wrong here - this activity is providing power to a role. I would have to investigate the thread a little more, however, I must prepare to take some brave and foolish adventurers to a bandits camp that is attempting to take siege to a dwarven hold - and be likely to return upon the noon.

You couldn’t be more wrong about that as you will very soon see. We are required to play this every day we’re alive and it’s to each player’s advantage that they not only participate in Koalawang but participate actively and enthusiastically.

That said, the winner and their prize will be announced shortly.

[Smoke and Mirrors]

OFFICIAL KOALAWANG LEADERBOARD

Those who are scared of participating are likely scum!

~Pooky

As you can clearly see from this leaderboard, this is a very close race between Penguin and Raya. so the runner up gets an adavantage in a future Koalwang round. Basically, a second place finish will get you points, which will increase your chances of winning a future round, so their efforts are not for naught. Should that player be unable to be able to participate (because they are no longer in the game for whatever reason) then the third place finisher shall receive that player’s points etc.

Effort, creativity, good taste and sense of humour, are all important factors necessary in selecting our winner.

[Smoke and Mirrors]

Spoiler: Cooler koala than Penguin's

This gif is a very strong contender.

[Smoke and Mirrors]

However, this one just ever so slightly beats it.

Penguin is the lucky first Koalwang winner. Today’s prize to be announced after mod officially declares the game officially ended.

[Smoke and Mirrors]

That’s Kolawang.

[Smoke and Mirrors]

That’s Koalawang.

[Smoke and Mirrors]

That’s Koalawang!

Sorry, for reposting 3 times but I want to make sure Krazy counts it.

[Smoke and Mirrors]

KOALAWANG

A ROUND OF KOALAWANG HAS ENDED

The winner of this round of koalawang is PenguinPower!

The D1 prize is for us to leash their vote at the time contest ended, so long as it isn’t a hammer.

[Smoke and Mirrors]

Votecount 1.3

Korina(4)

~ Korina(10), Mad Hatters Tea Party(16), PenguinPower(46), Superb Subtlety(16)

Whemestar(2)

~ Raya36(25), Rathe(2)

April Ludgate(2)

~ April Ludgate(10), mastina(5)

Smoke and Mirrors(1)

~ Noraabear(16)

Rathe(1)

~ Whemestar(26)

PenguinPower(1)

~ Smoke and Mirrors(40)

mastina(1)

~ TheFuzzylogic99(9)


Not Voting (1): Battle Mage(16)

With 13 alive it takes 7 to FLIP.

Day 1 deadline is in (expired on 2021-03-07 15:12:08)

MOD REMINDERS

Noon will hit in (expired on 2021-02-28 15:14:23)

FLAVOR

So this means we are obligated to vote Korina.

VOTE: Korina

[Smoke and Mirrors]

KOALAWANG

A ROUND OF KOALAWANG HAS ENDED

The winner of this round of koalawang is PenguinPower!

The D1 prize is for us to leash their vote at the time contest ended, so long as it isn’t a hammer.

you chose to trigger a competition which would require you to give up your vote to the 'winner'?

I don't think that's the real prize

We are not informed about the prize until AFTER Kolawang has ended and it is the real prize. I would think that anyone who played in Animals uPick 1 wouldn’t question that but you probably either forgot my role in that or didn’t follow that game very closely after your NK.

The only thing we have any say in is who wins Koalawang but beyond that it’s 100% up to Krazy.

[Smoke and Mirrors]

VOTE: Rathe is an option I do believe will gain value moving forward.

???

We are quite some way into the game, and your contributions have been nil.

i dont post gifs

Then you signed up for the wrong game.

[Smoke and Mirrors]

King thought mastina was known to type in wall posts did they change or do I remember wrong

I do both. Shorter posts when it's more appropriate, longer posts when it's more appropriate.

Also in this game the extended rvs gives me less content to work with--it's not really my thing, it's not really my style, it's something that I can look at as an observer, smile, and appreciate it, enjoying it as a viewer, and get some good townreads from it, but I don't really know what to do with it as a starting point for content.

To give a metaphor for this. When I am at a family gathering that has dance, beit slowdance or more modern dance: I will be there, but I'll be sitting down, watching the dancers. I will smile, appreciate them from my seat, enjoy their dancing as an observer, and generally be around, and enjoying it, but not being a part of it. If I was asked to be a part of the dance, I wouldn't know where to begin, I'd be hesitant, I'd be out of my depths, I'd be uncomfortable, as a participant I'd be miserable, awkward, and not having a good time, in spite of being involved in the activity.

Which is to say the activity is more fun for me to watch than it is for me to participate in. There's plenty of games that work that way, too. I'll watch streamers play games that I myself would never play. (A prominent one: Dead by Daylight. I would never play killer because I don't really like first-person gameplay. I would never play survivor because playing survivor requires precision timing gameplay where you press the right buttons at precisely the right time and the right time is not something you know in advance. Yet in spite of me never wanting to play that game, it is one of my favorite games to watch and I've watched literally hundreds of hours of gameplay on it because I enjoy it as a viewer.)

Same basic principle here. The koala game is fun, and is good for me to watch, and I am getting townreads from the players playing it.
But I just...don't know what to do with it. I can state the townreads I suppose, and I can reiterate that gives the game a small POE for who the scum are likely to be.

Smoke and Mirrors (Nancy Drew 39 + Pooky)
Battle Mage
Superb Subtlety (alisae + jjh)

Mad Hatters Tea Party
WhemeStar
Raya36

Rathe
TheFuzzylogic99
PenguinPower

Korina
Noraabear

April Ludgate

...But I already did so and it's a bit hard to explain further beyond that.

Smoke and Mirrors radiate town in a way I've never seen before. They're truly a fire worthy of me, and I am naturally attracted to them as a strong townread here.

Battle Mage did not participate in koalawang, but his handling of the game has looked town. In hindsight, I may have placed him slightly too high, but I still think he's north of null this game.

Superb Subtly is very obviously town this game.

Mad Hatter Tea Party looks pretty damn town but I admit to unfamiliarity there and inability to tell how strongly so.
WhemeStar has looked incredibly town--tho I lack familiarity, the more and more WhemeStar posts the more I see town. In fact it's probably best to say that WhemeStar and Battle Mage's positions should be reversed: Whemestar as locktown with Battle Mage north of null but not in the same locktown tier as WhemeStar and Smoke/Mirrors and Superb Subtlety.
Raya and PenguinPower's participation in Koalawang is the perfect example of townreads generated from the event (PP was too low in the last readslist imo).

Rathe's literally naked voting with nothing more, so no koala play there and fully null.
TFL has been pretty null, fairly lackluster, but is still overall okay in not being south of null imo.

Then we get into the scumreads who're lackluster in a bad way and by no coincidence, none of them participated in koalawang.

So updated readslist:

Smoke and Mirrors (Nancy Drew 39 + Pooky)
Superb Subtlety (alisae + jjh)
WhemeStar

Mad Hatters Tea Party
Raya36
PenguinPower
Battle Mage

TheFuzzylogic99
Rathe

Korina
Noraabear

April Ludgate

Loosely, locktown, strong town, null, scumread, strong scumread.

Can you explain your srs on Korina, Noraabear and April? Thanks.

[Smoke and Mirrors]

The apathy of the town is beginning to worry me a bit. Both April and Korina said they are both apathetic toward this game.

As a hint: it'll help you when you realize that neither of them is actually town.

While I've nothing but gut for why Korina is scum here, April being scum here as apathetic is actually something I DO have reason for:

While FL is a player who can get apathetic as either alignment, statistically speaking, he is apathetic more often as scum (due to burnout from previous scumgames) more than as town.

It's not a surefire lock-scumtell, but it's better than random in accuracy. I'd say in the 60-75% range. Which is to say, in 25-40% of his games where he is apathetic FL will be apathetic-town but in the majority of them, the 60-75%, he is scum.

Interesting. My only experience with scum!FL was when he tried to control the game. I don’t think I’ve ever seen apathetic FL in any game I’ve ever played with him.

[Smoke and Mirrors]

I’m liking Penguin and Raya so far. I think scum has more reason to fear Koalawang than town.

[Smoke and Mirrors]

eek Nancy is scum here. town Nancy locktowns me like ten pages ago.

Why would I locktown anyone who voted me for making an extremely obvious joke? Like I mentioned I liked two players, you weren’t one of them. Tell me how this isn’t an extreme over reaction?

Like I’m not even currently sr you despite you - the creator of not just one but two Noraa cuteness lair threads -shrugging off Koalawang.

But if you keep pushing me for ridiculous reasons, I don’t know how I should read you here?

[Smoke and Mirrors]

While FL is a player who can get apathetic as either alignment, statistically speaking, he is apathetic more often as scum

this is actually inherently untrue, i actually get more apathetic as town, but i do also get apathetic from being scum a lot.

i have been town a lot lately, not scum, though so

@FL that is Mastina’s quote I believe not mine. I’ve never played with apathetic you as ANY alignment, which I’ve already mentioned.

[Smoke and Mirrors]

ok, tell me then, what are your reads?

The king thinks you and Nora are town

Mastina is probably scum.

The king doesn’t know if third party exists in this but if it did smoke and mirrors is third party

[Smoke and Mirrors]

Wait isn’t smoke and mirrors Ali and jjh?

SS is Ali + jjh.

We’re Pooky (Smoke) and me/Nancy (Mirrors).

[Smoke and Mirrors]

i'm just as confused about a town godfather as you are, and that's why i wanna try to figure it out.

If it helps anything, I was a town dolphin in Animals uPick 1. I mean it’s possible, in Starcraft 3? Cerberous was a guilty child. Trying to alignment parse in a Krazy uPick game based on mech is probably pointless imo.

[Smoke and Mirrors]

okay getting back to the game

I don't know if roles mean anything at all atp. Whatever the setup its going to be weird.

SAM- Koala ( Koala game)
Norabear- Snow Leopard Town Godfather
Korina- Dog Coroner
April -Dragonfly Ninja Visitor

Smoke/Mirror and April could both have scum roles. Korina could be a scum here too and actually be a janitor and fake claiming coroner here but I doubt it. he is prob town. Also I don't see scum claiming Town Godfather. I think that Nora is a solid town based on her role

Town reads
Nora

leaning town
Masina- only bc her play is so wierd and I dont see scum Mastina playing the way she is
Korina- By role

Toss-Up (in no particular order)
April
SAM

Leaning scum
Wheme-

Mod confirmed our role was real. I hope this isn’t going to be like Boon uPick all over again.

[Smoke and Mirrors]

Mod confirmed our role was real.

Tbf - mod confirmed koalawang was real. We don’t actually know your role.

Anciliarry: do you have to follow my vote or are you stuck for the day on korina?

We are only leashed to the vote you made at the time Koalawang ended so yes, we are effectively treestumped for today.

[Smoke and Mirrors]

Mod confirmed our role was real.

Tbf - mod confirmed koalawang was real. We don’t actually know your role.

Anciliarry: do you have to follow my vote or are you stuck for the day on korina?

We are only leashed to the vote you made at the time Koalawang ended so yes, we are effectively treestumped for today

.

Prove it and try to vote elsewhere

Are you scum here or can’t read?

[Smoke and Mirrors]

A town godfather would do the same as a scum godfather

A godfather always appears as town to alignment checks
Not that hard to comprehend. I've put a scum miller in a setup before and it's the same theory

-jj

You seriously think scum!Noraa does this as a fakeclaim? Really? I’m really trying to figure out if your slot is being deliberately obtuse or whether you’re actually scum. You shade me for no good reason whatsoever, now you’re also accusing Noraa of lying too?

Mine is mod confirmed and also negative utility because had Penguin been voting us, we’d now be self-voting.

Tell me why tf Noraa is even bothering to claim this role since she isn’t even being run up. If I could change my vote, I’d probably switch it to you. It’s scummy af for you to keep wrongly shading me for no good reason whatsoever.

[Smoke and Mirrors]

Can’t you vote somewhere else and if moderator doesn’t change your vote then it’s proof?

Krazy told me I am required to vote the slot that Koalawang winner was voting at the time game ended. He stated this very clearly in the pm I got. The only thing I’m not 100% certain on is if Penguin unvoting affects it or not, so I will ask.

[Smoke and Mirrors]

Can’t you vote somewhere else and if moderator doesn’t change your vote then it’s proof?

Krazy told me I am required to vote the slot that Koalawang winner was voting at the time game ended. He stated this very clearly in the pm I got. The only thing I’m not 100% certain on is if Penguin unvoting affects it or not, so I will ask.

I just DM’d him and he confirmed that no, Penguin unvoting Korina doesn’t change anything.

[Smoke and Mirrors]

King is saying if your actually tree stumped you changing your vote proves it by it not moving on the next vote count

If you want to miselim me when Krazy just literally told me I am not allowed to unvote Korina for the remainder of this day phase, that’s on you. I’m not disobeying Krazy.

[Smoke and Mirrors]

Okay but what happens if you vote someone else

I know you're saying you can't but if you were to actually type out a post where you vote someone else and post it then what happens

You want me to ask Krazy what happens if I disobey a post restriction? He just told me I am not allowed to unvote. You can believe me or not but I’m not risking a modkill sorry.

[Smoke and Mirrors]

Please do that

Voting related things are not usually post restrictions

Krazy told me I’m not allowed to unvote. I’m not disobeying the mod. If you honestly think I’m scum here doing this then fucking vote me.

[Smoke and Mirrors]

Ask him what happens if you unvote

You’re right, I wouldn’t be modkilled, however my Koalawang role woud be cancelled.

[Smoke and Mirrors]

I can’t imagine a post restriction that interacts with voting mechanics. I don’t think you get mod killed for typing VOTE: WhemeStar [/.V]. If your telling the truth I would imagine your vote would just remain where it was

Did you literally not read what I just said?

[Smoke and Mirrors]

If you try to break the rules you turn into a VT?

Yes.

I’m obviously the Koalawang Emcee and I don’t want it taken away from me, which is what will happen if I unvote.

[Smoke and Mirrors]

I can’t imagine a post restriction that interacts with voting mechanics. I don’t think you get mod killed for typing VOTE: WhemeStar [/.V]. If your telling the truth I would imagine your vote would just remain where it was

Did you literally not read what I just said?

He probably didn't given the 34 seconds between your posts

You feel way more defensive than usual in this game

I’m always defensive. You should already know that from Pokeman Battles.

[Smoke and Mirrors]

If you’re seriously going to keep pushing this, ISO me in Boon uPick. The role was obviously different but I experienced pretty much the same reaction in that game. Want me to link it for you?

[Smoke and Mirrors]

If you’re seriously going to keep pushing this, ISO me in Boon uPick. The role was obviously different but I experienced pretty much the same reaction in that game. Want me to link it for you?

ISO me in that game and tell me I’m reacting differently here, I dare you.

[Smoke and Mirrors]

This is the first thing I've actually pushed, and it's that you've misinterpreted everything else I've talked to you about as a push

You’re accusing me of being “way more defensive than usual”, correct? Well that is town indicative for me or at least NAI. In the last game I was scum in, I hardly was defensive at all because I obviously knew I was scum, so that’s how you know but you’re obviously going to tell me you know my meta better than I do?

Oka did that to me in Doubles’. Want me to link that game for you too?

[Smoke and Mirrors]

This is why I much prefer playing on alts because I’m really tired of people misinterpreting my meta. ISO me in BOTH games if you think I’m full of it.

[Smoke and Mirrors]

This is why I much prefer playing on alts because I’m really tired of people misinterpreting my meta. ISO me in BOTH games if you think I’m full of it.

I’m too tired to find the links rn but you’re more than welcome t look them up.

[Smoke and Mirrors]

Boon uPick
Doubles’ Mafia

ISO me in both games.

[Smoke and Mirrors]

I don't know if it's town indicative or scum indicative and I don't trust self meta on this

I will reach a conclusion when I do; it doesn't particularly help for you to jump to conclusions on my behalf or to throw self meta at me

It’s not “self-meta”, you can literally ISO me and have it proven what you’re saying about my reaction being “way more defensive” here, is bs.

[Smoke and Mirrors]

I mean, it kinda is self meta, yeah

How do you figure that? You or anyone in this game can ISO me in both games and draw their OWN conclusions from that.

It’s nothing to do with MY opinion.

[Smoke and Mirrors]

My point is that you’re obviously wrong and anyone who ISOs me in both of those games will clearly see that but if you want to keep wrongly accusing me of somehow being “super paranoid” or whatever than I’m afraid I can’t help you with that.

[Smoke and Mirrors]

KOALAWANG

A ROUND OF KOALAWANG HAS ENDED

The winner of this round of koalawang is PenguinPower!

I mean how much more mod confirmed can you get? I don’t even understand why I’m being questioned for any of the Koalawang stuff?

[Smoke and Mirrors]

This is not a question that should take this long to answer

Oh now I’m on some timer? Yeah no.

[Smoke and Mirrors]

@SS please let me know when you’re actually reading and not ignoring my responses. Tyvm.

[Smoke and Mirrors]

You haven't answered my question

I have countless times already, not my fault you aren’t reading.

[Smoke and Mirrors]

You haven't answered my question

I have countless times already, not my fault you aren’t reading.

You have repeatedly misrepped my posting, ignored/discredited my responses and then you inexplicably keep saying that I haven’t answered something I’ve already responded to a gazillion times.

So you want me to keep repeating myself a gazillion more and will still misrep me and claim I didn’t answer your question?

[Smoke and Mirrors]

I'm reading your responses but I'm not interested in continuing the conversation in any direction other than one that contains an answer to my question

PEdit: If there was an answer to my question it would include somewhere where you quoted me shading you

Then read my posts and if it still doesn’t sink in, read them again and again - as many times as necessary because I don’t even know wtf you’re even talking about any more? How many more times is it necessary for me to keep repeating myself?

[Smoke and Mirrors]

A town godfather would do the same as a scum godfather

A godfather always appears as town to alignment checks
Not that hard to comprehend. I've put a scum miller in a setup before and it's the same theory

-jj

You seriously think scum!Noraa does this as a fakeclaim? Really? I’m really trying to figure out if your slot is being deliberately obtuse or whether you’re actually scum. You shade me for no good reason whatsoever, now you’re also accusing Noraa of lying too?

Mine is mod confirmed and also negative utility because had Penguin been voting us, we’d now be self-voting.

Tell me why tf Noraa is even bothering to claim this role since she isn’t even being run up. If I could change my vote, I’d probably switch it to you. It’s scummy af for you to keep wrongly shading me for no good reason whatsoever.

To what were you referring in this post when you said I "shaded [you] for no good reason whatsoever", and then again said that I "keep wrongly shading you for no good reason" as though it had happened multiple times in the game?

Are you or are you not accusing me of lying abour the post restriction or are you going to now accuse me of hallucinating that or something?

Are you saying I actually misunderstood you? Am I losing my mind?

[Smoke and Mirrors]

I have already answered this to the best of my ability, so I don’t understand how you reposting this 100 thousand more times is going to change my answer.

[Smoke and Mirrors]

Ask him what happens if you unvote

You’re right, I wouldn’t be modkilled, however my Koalawang role woud be cancelled.

Actually now I'm starting to doubt S&M. I don't believe this

Ask Krazy. He obviously can’t confirm anything about my role to you but ask him what he does to players who ignore post restrictions. Hopefully that will put an end to this nonsense once and for all.

[Smoke and Mirrors]

(I am about to do the shiki gimmick that I found interesting)

[Smoke and Mirrors]

I think April might be town here.

[Smoke and Mirrors]

I think April might be town here.

Why?

Something to do with his role claim. I will hopefully be able to elaborate on this more.

[Smoke and Mirrors]

[Smoke and Mirrors]

1) they jumped on a quick wagon
2) they have not explained why as far as I know
3) the voted Rathe which seems like an easy mislynch

who is they?

do you think the entire scum team is just bloc voting from 1 person to another? lol

[Smoke and Mirrors]

what do you like about rathe?

Rathe seems like lhf for scum right now. The way they're posting seems NAI

Yeah, I remember RC told me that on D1, the least charismatic player is more often than not likely to be elimed and they are far more likely to be lhf than not.

[Smoke and Mirrors]

SAM- Subtle/ I use they as not to mess up pronouns as I often do.

Battke- what do you think of Mastina . Do you have a lean for her

Penguin- True however you jumped on the wagon early when it had less steam so it seems to be less optimistic. Also your play have been a lot better then Subtle. Looking back as a whole I have become less and less impressed with Subtle overall play . They seem like they are kinda sakting by . Not as bad as Wheme imho but still skating

We’re a hydra.

[Smoke and Mirrors]

s&m, korina, whemestar and noraa all claimed right? and noraa's one seemed legit from recollection, although scum presumably have safeclaims.

Yeah but Noraa had no reason to claim anything. We otoh have no choice in the matter.

[Smoke and Mirrors]

Just notice all of the Rathe votes minus wheme have suddenly jumped on the BM wagon and I am not sure what to make of that

Well if we're going with Rathe is lhf and everyone moved to Battle Mage I guess we could come to the conclusion mafia are also fine with a battle mage elim.
UNVOTE:

That would imply mastina scum

I do think mastina is scum but I have enough doubt that I don't want to eliminate mastina D1 after her softclaims

Mastina’s currently a null for me. Can someone tell me why she’s scum here?

[Smoke and Mirrors]

Scum:
Superb Subtlety (alisae + jjh)
PenguinPower

town:
mastina
Noraabear
Rathe
Raya36
TheFuzzylogic99
Mad Hatters Tea Party

to sort:
WhemeStar
Korina
Smoke and Mirrors (Nancy Drew 39 + Pooky)
April Ludgate

let's re-read those claims

Why are we not in your town category?

[Smoke and Mirrors]

I don't explain my votes, but I have told you how you can understand it.

I don't really care to help you further.

that's fine, i'll just elim you then. i've played enough games with you to know that you are lazy as heck as scum, and motivated and productive as town. "i don't explain my votes" and dodging questions is the former.

VOTE: penguinpower

I think scum!Penguin tends to coast a lot more. Generally him doing anything is town indicative for him.

[Smoke and Mirrors]

hold on a minute, if Korina is coroner, and Whemestar is janitor, doesn't that mean Whemestar is scum? why would you have a town janitor?

but whemestar claimed janitor voluntarily, so there must be something mech-wise i don't understand. can anyone explain?

How would a town janitor even work? If there’s a scum between Wheme and Korina, I don’t think it’s Korina. I think he’s been really townie in his reactions.

[Smoke and Mirrors]

so with respect PenguinPower, I can read you easily because you play completely differently when you're scum compared to when you're town.

Are we reading the same game?

[Smoke and Mirrors]

Oh I forgot to mention: reminder that I am V/LA and reminder that I am also depressed and don't truly want to post here but I feel obligated to in a moment like this where I can squeeze it in.

VOTE: penguinpower

(For the record I do think that BM v PP is TvT here--the push from Battle Mage looks town but PP's response to it also looks town in a way I don't think he can make if he were scum.)

I hope you feel better soon Mastina!

Here is a Koala Hug for you!

[Smoke and Mirrors]

where mastina declared immortality

Funny you should mention immortality given my role.
(I gave Krazy three picks, my first which he went with has a strong association with that word.)

VOTE: Mastina
this is town and anyone not agreeing with it will be looked at tomorrow after her green flip/scum shot.

Fixed that for you.

I don't like all this softclaiming of having such a super strong role. This isn't how town handles having a strong PR on day 1

It is when you know what the role is and the player handling it.

I can get away with softing it because scum can't do anything about it.

Claiming the role is sub-optimal D1, but it doesn't really matter

that

much--the play is mostly the same regardless of whether I claim it, don't claim it with softclaims, or don't claim it with no claims. I just prefer the middle option because I like to.

I guarantee that were I to claim you would know why I've said everything I have and agree with it, that everything I said was true, that there isn't MUCH of a difference between me claiming it and not claiming it, but that I am right in my assessment that while it doesn't matter much, claiming it on D1 is still notably suboptimal to not claiming it.

Plus, scum aren't gonna

actually

guess my role in spite of the softclaims. They can't. I am so confident that they can't guess my role that it allows me that freedom to softclaim all I like. I can be as blatant as I want with my soft; the scum still won't know what hits 'em until I fullclaim.

If anyone else votes there I will hold you personally accountable for what happens afterwards

I mean.

mastina(5)

~ April Ludgate, Korina, Rathe, Whemestar, Noraabear

The slot has my three scumreads on it in the order of strength on them (April > Korina > Rather strongest to weakest), plus a player who I initially scumread that's prone to OMGUS'ing and tunneling even if the player who scumread them later revisits that read and thinks it to not be true anymore (Noraabear); the only vote there which is clearly town and yet not easily explained is Whemestar.

which means mastina and rathe wagons both on town. to revisit

It's possible rathe is town but rathe is a poe scumread of mine.

I realize rathe is LHF--but the poe is the poe.

Smoke and Mirrors are town by play and town by claim. Their play more recently is less town than I'd prefer, but their early play radiated town in a way I don't think is scum. Even without that, their role is one that I don't think is scum, and we have mod confirmation that it IS a real role. Or close enough. (The mod has confirmed the existence of koalawang being a game mechanic; the prizes for it aren't confirmed but the mod-confirmation of koalawang being a thing confirms the role, the details of the role are frankly irrelevant.)

Superb Subtlety are clearly town here--given my slight doubt in Smoke/Mirrors, I actually am thinking of backing them up. In many ways, they're the inverse to Smoke/Mirrors: instead of starting strong and degrading to 'okay', they started 'okay' and have gotten stronger and stronger later into the day.

WhemeStar's play has radiated town and his claim looks incredibly town.

Raya seems incredibly town by play, natural, at ease, reasonable, having good stances and opinions.

Mad Hatters Tea Party also has looked incredibly town the entire time, start to finish.

Noraabear's play could be scum, but I don't think it is; Noraabear's play overall looks town and the claim is also one that I think is town. Noraabear was dead on the money even if she insists she didn't have a real point when she said that the reactions in that area damn Korina because she handled that area in an incredibly town manner and Korina bluntly, didn't.

PenguinPower and Battle Mage are lesser townreads but still look more town than not.

Which leaves a POE of {TFL, Rathe, Korina, April Ludgate}. Of the four, TFL looks vaguely town albeit not enough to be a real solid townread.

So the POE is {Rathe, Korina, April Ludgate}.

I realize for D1 this is probably not a perfect solve, but perfect is the enemy of good and this is good enough of a solve for D1.

@Mastina I don’t understand why your read on us is less strong because given my recent posting, I would expect the exact opposite, so can you explain this? I had some initial paranoia that you might possibly be setting us up similarly to MBoS but I obviously no longer think that’s the case but I still don’t understand why SS is currently stronger for you than us?

I also don’t understand why Korina is scum here?

[Smoke and Mirrors]

Just notice all of the Rathe votes minus wheme have suddenly jumped on the BM wagon and I am not sure what to make of that

Well if we're going with Rathe is lhf and everyone moved to Battle Mage I guess we could come to the conclusion mafia are also fine with a battle mage elim.
UNVOTE:

That would imply mastina scum

I do think mastina is scum but I have enough doubt that I don't want to eliminate mastina D1 after her softclaims

Mastina’s currently a null for me. Can someone tell me why she’s scum here?

Her play has felt really weird and tonally off. I have noticed a few times she would post long contentless posts. The first half of 328 as an example. Also 411 really bothered me because it was a super long post avoiding my actual question. It felt like she was hoping I would take it for an answer and let her skate by without actually explaining that read. I also very much do not agree with her most recent readslist.

Which reads specifically? That list didn’t help me at all. I also don’t understand her tr me because mod confirmed role but practically locktowning slots who are questioning it.

[Smoke and Mirrors]

Yeah - I disagree with and don’t understand the wheme thing

Missed this. Yes, I don’t understand why she tr him but sr Korina. I thought the way Korina claimed sounded really townie to me. He’s probably one of my top trs rn.

[Smoke and Mirrors]

Superb Subtlety are clearly town here--given my slight doubt in Smoke/Mirrors, I actually am thinking of backing them up. In many ways, they're the inverse to Smoke/Mirrors: instead of starting strong and degrading to 'okay', they started 'okay' and have gotten stronger and stronger later into the day.

Can you explain what's clearly town about superb subtlety?

+1

They’re another null for me rn.

[Smoke and Mirrors]

VOTE: penguinpower

(For the record I do think that BM v PP is TvT here--the push from Battle Mage looks town but PP's response to it also looks town in a way I don't think he can make if he were scum.)

No! not TvT!

PP's response was to initially dismiss it because it was a limited sample (in my view, implying the observations were valid based on the evidence) and didn't count, and then tried to argue that the observations were not valid. It's inconsistent, clutching at straws, and in general PP's response to me has just been to ignore the game-related stuff and be more personal. The player is demonstrably capable of that as scum - I even referenced a game where that was the case. Would quotes help?

Can you link/quote that again for me because I think I missed it? My experience with scum!Penguin is he pretty much does nothing but coast and he doesn’t seem to be doing that here.

[Smoke and Mirrors]

@Mastina I don’t understand why your read on us is less strong because given my recent posting, I would expect the exact opposite, so can you explain this?

Basically, whenever you post it looks town, but you're posting less often than I would expect, essentially--every time you post I see town, but the paranoia is from seeing those posts less often than I'd expect. (And you're decent enough at scum that, if you space your posts out, it's possible for you to make town posts as scum.)

When Koalawang was going on you were like...every other post in the game.

But now it's like...one or two posts a day.

However bursts of activity look town and the content within looks town.

Which is where the rating comes in:
Early very very strong, currently okay. Okay isn't as good as strong, but okay is still explicitly good, it's still strong, just not

strongest

.

I really didn’t want to get into this and absolutely no disrespect to Xtoxm intended but the whole situation with Krazy has seriously hurt my motivation for playing this game. I think I might have repped out if it weren’t for Pooky. I just feel weird playing this game with Krazy perma’d but I’m really trying to not let that affect me. :/

[Smoke and Mirrors]

Mmm, that's a fair enough explanation.

Also, our role is really awesome, so that’s also a factor.

[Smoke and Mirrors]

Voting for pressure in order to place is perfectly reasonable and loses that effect to some degree if you say that's what you're doing

You've also focused on the only vote for which my reasoning was unclear. That you've cherrypicked that in order to place me tells me all that I need to know

I don’t really have a read yet on TFL and I don’t think Mastina’s the best wagon but I have very strong reasons not to trust certain things you said about my role which I’m currently unable to elaborate on. That could be NAI but I don’t think it’s beyond your scum range to make bad setup spec reads. Wheme auto jumping to my mod confirmed role as scum is even worse. Only thing that doesn’t make sense to me about Mastina is that she’s townlocking two slots who are doubting my role. Also, in the one game I played with you where you were scum, you were extremely active but in all the games you were town, you were a lot more lurky, so tell me why I should trust you here despite your - what read to me as possible attempts to rolefish me - is that fair? Because you are trying to take charge of this game which wouldn’t be a concern for me at all, had you not done anything to make me super paranoid of you.

I really want to have a much more confident read on you but that’s hard when I’m super paranoing on you. So if you’re town here, please help me to see it?

[Smoke and Mirrors]

Votecount 1.9

mastina(5)

~ April Ludgate, Korina, Rathe, Whemestar, Noraabear

Korina(2)

~ Smoke and Mirrors, mastina

Battle Mage(2)

~ PenguinPower, TheFuzzylogic99

PenguinPower(1)

~ Battle Mage

TheFuzzylogic99(1)

~ Superb Subtlety

Not Voting (2)

: Raya36, Mad Hatters Tea Party

With 13 alive it takes 7 to FLIP.

Day 1 deadline is in (expired on 2021-03-07 15:12:44)

@mod, Can we have an updated VC please?

[Smoke and Mirrors]

I think Mastina’s town.

[Smoke and Mirrors]

Riiiiight - because wheme is obviously a compulsive janitor and korina is a compulsive coroner and there exists no blocking roles in mafia at all.

Meanwhile - actual investigative and protective roles exist, but let’s push through a wagon on a potential beneficial role who likely won’t be able to claim with the time remaining.

Sound plan.

I’m no compuslive sorry for enough been drink I all night long I’m so sorry

Korina is compulsive? That’s almost certainly a town modifier but a non-compulsive janitor clearly put into the setup to balance a coroner role, makes me think this could be a scum role. Him clearly shading a literally mod-confirmed role, isn’t helping my read on him any.

[Smoke and Mirrors]

I'm going to just hardclaim then:
I'm a coroner. What purpose is there for a scum coroner?

Coroner is a role that hard-counters a janitor, so it'd make sense in this game for there to be a role that gives my role some use.

then fucking rolecop me, why do I care?

And also, you can see my reason to believe why there's a scum janitor, because this is supposed to be a VT-less game. Literally, a tracker can also prove my role, because I can only visit dead players.

Whoever we elim today, is who I visit tonight to see their role PM, because that's the only action I can take.

pedit:

then fucking rolecop me, why do I care?

or track me tonight, and see I visit a dead player. Regardless, it proves my role.

I couldn’t find anything wrt compulsive but I can’t see why scum has a coroner.

[Smoke and Mirrors]

Spoiler:

Voting for pressure in order to place is perfectly reasonable and loses that effect to some degree if you say that's what you're doing

You've also focused on the only vote for which my reasoning was unclear. That you've cherrypicked that in order to place me tells me all that I need to know

I don’t really have a read yet on TFL and I don’t think Mastina’s the best wagon but I have very strong reasons not to trust certain things you said about my role which I’m currently unable to elaborate on. That could be NAI but I don’t think it’s beyond your scum range to make bad setup spec reads. Wheme auto jumping to my mod confirmed role as scum is even worse. Only thing that doesn’t make sense to me about Mastina is that she’s townlocking two slots who are doubting my role. Also, in the one game I played with you where you were scum, you were extremely active but in all the games you were town, you were a lot more lurky, so tell me why I should trust you here despite your - what read to me as possible attempts to rolefish me - is that fair? Because you are trying to take charge of this game which wouldn’t be a concern for me at all, had you not done anything to make me super paranoid of you.

I really want to have a much more confident read on you but that’s hard when I’m super paranoing on you. So if you’re town here, please help me to see it?

Which things that I said about your role?

I want to reiterate that my questions on your role were NOT a push. However, I believe what you said about it. I think you're town now- I was null on you when I started asking you questions because while you're fairly easy to place there wasn't exactly a lot of content to go on, and as I have said you're easiest to place when someone has pushed you.

I don't think I've done any bad setup spec here, Nancy. The only conclusion I've reached from pure setup spec here is that I said there were probably a bunch of net null VT-esque roles in the game, and I said that before quite a few of the net null VT-esque roles claimed. That is verifiably good setup spec. Inaccurate mechanical stuff is definitely within my scumrange as I've actually cleared myself before as scum under some very specific circumstances, and I don't pretend I never make mistakes as town, so yes- it's explicitly NAI if taken in isolation, but I haven't even done that yet.

I did NOT make a push on you based on your role, and tried to explain that multiple times. The thing is, Nancy, you do have a tendency to make assumptions as you're reading, and you don't challenge them later. You often end up completely misreading a situation. While I did try to correct those assumptions for you, I think you also have a tendency to not listen to people when you disagree with them, or especially when you think they're scum. It does help to place your alignment, which is one of the main reasons I did end up pushing you (so that I could place you. I did not think you were scum.) But I want to clarify now while you're more inclined to read my posts that the mechanics regarding you was not, and was never a push.

Okay but what happens if you vote someone else

I know you're saying you can't but if you were to actually type out a post where you vote someone else and post it then what happens

When I posted this, I was not saying you were lying. I wanted to know what happens if you were to vote someone else.

There's a key mechanical difference here that I would like to establish that is going way over your head

For what it's worth, I haven't once said you're scum or that anything relating to this is scum indicative. This is just mechanics, not a push

I explained this afterwards. But you still continued to believe that I was pushing you on mechanics, so I thought I might as well actually push you on something to see how you react. But you completely missed that, because the only important detail that you could see at the time was that I was pushing you.

The 'expected' implementation of a leashed vote is that the mod sets your vote to the leash target and no longer acknowledges when you try to change it. This is why myself and Wheme both initially asked for you to change your vote to prove it. It's not really a big deal that Krazy has opted for a different implementation which cannot confirm the leash, but I did want to confirm that this was indeed the case. When I was asking about your role there was a reasonable chance from my perspective that you had misunderstood it, so I wanted to clear that up.

Regarding activity, could you tell me which scumgame it was in which I was active? If it was the one where I was a traitor I would note I only managed to keep that up for 1 dayphase. My activity is strongly linked to my motivation to play in a given game, which usually is pretty low if I am scum. Activity is AI for me, but it's not an absolute. I have also started to cut down that motivation in the earlygame in general because my classic style of play tends to lead to my NK on N1. If you want any further analysis then Mastina is the expert on my meta.

Just to clarify I didn’t mean to suggest that you were necessarily doing bad setup spec in THIS game, only that doing so wouldn’t be out of your scumrange. In Vengeful Ghosts you were extremely active but a lot less so in Doubles and Boon uPick but in Pokemon Battles, you kind’ve picked up near the end of D2.

I think I might possibly have misinterpreted your you wanting me to test my vote as a push but someone - can’t recall whom atm? - did in fact shade my role by suggesting that Pengun’s prize wasn’t what I claimed, so if that was you, that’s where I got the rolefish thing from.

However, now that you are claiming it was a reaction test, I feel better about you. since reaction tests tend to come more from town. However if you recall, Auro did that as scum in Boon uPick.

[Smoke and Mirrors]

One thinks that the King should perhaps flavour claim, in addition to their role claim; due to the time constraints, however, this is unlikely to happen.

VOTE: TheFuzzyLogic99 then, as the only viable compromise to me presently.

Why do you think flavour is useful in this setup?

[Smoke and Mirrors]

It is possible that scum has a coroner, just as it possible that town has a janitor. This is the theme queue

I townread Korina for his mindset around his claim and the internal consistency of it all
I townread Wheme for his play. His claim is potentially town indicative but we can't give it extra credit when it follows a godfather claim getting locktowned by the more vocal people in the game because scum could potentially want in on that. But Wheme is town on play

What use would a coroner be to scum and do you think it makes sense that coroner and janitor would be the same alignment?

[Smoke and Mirrors]

The path from animal to role PM is not as straightforward as you might think

Koalas are not known for hosting game shows, for example

Perhaps in Oz?

[Smoke and Mirrors]

sigh

No one has claimed compulsive. It was sarcasm directed at Raya in reply to her logic.

Yeah I just read #1333.

[Smoke and Mirrors]

woooo

[Smoke and Mirrors]

lets just kill everyone off the wagon

we should win lol

[Smoke and Mirrors]

why play mafia

when you can play

KOALAWANG

LET'S PLAY KOALAWANG!

[Smoke and Mirrors]

A PLUME OF FLAMES APPEARS ON THE HORIZON

Nobody died in the night.

Day 2 begins.
Morning ends at noon in: (expired on 2021-03-12 13:50:57)
Day 2 deadline: (expired on 2021-03-17 13:50:57)

Awesome! This could be even better than Pokemon Battles.

[Smoke and Mirrors]

I 100% endorse this post. <3

[Smoke and Mirrors]

why play mafia

when you can play

KOALAWANG

LET'S PLAY KOALAWANG!

@Pooky, you need to specify the D2 gif flavour.

To clarify, our role pm specifies Koala gifs, hence the name but because so many koala gifs were posted, I dm’d Krazy and requested if we could maybe switch up the flavour to something else.

He said, our choice so long as it’s gifs, so I thought of unofficially calling it Pizzawang and/or ice cream wang.

So post pizza and/or ice cream gifs

. Go!

[Smoke and Mirrors]

Also mafia is going pretty damn well so far and I'm waiting for people to check in so did you really have to do that now?

Yes, we are required to do that everyday until game noon, I thought I had made that clear yesterday?

[Smoke and Mirrors]

Votecount 1.FINAL

TheFuzzylogic99(7)

~ Superb Subtlety, Whemestar, Mad Hatters Tea Party, PenguinPower, Raya36, Korina, Noraabear

(FLIP)

mastina(2)

~ April Ludgate, Rathe

Korina(2)

~ Smoke and Mirrors, mastina

PenguinPower(1)

~ Battle Mage

Battle Mage(1)

~ TheFuzzylogic99

With 13 alive it takes 7 to FLIP.

Day 1 deadline is in (expired on 2021-03-07 15:12:44)

TheFuzzylogic99 has been flipped:

Day 2 Afternoon Sniper

Welcome to Krazy's Animal upick 2!

Spoiler:

Alternate Jingle Flavor:

Spoiler:

Alternate Xtoxm Flavor:

Spoiler:

You are a border collie, a

Mafia Day 2 Afternoon Sniper

.

ACTIVE -- Day 2 Afternoon Sniper -- On Day 2, in the AFTERNOON phase (after the first 72 hours), you may target a player with a killing action. If that player dies, they will show as being killed with

blown away by a high caliber rifle

ACTIVE: Factional kill -- Your mafia faction has a kill at night. If you perform this kill, the flavor will be

loved to death

.

NAR Priority Ranking: Lower # = resolves earlier, i.e. 1 = resolves first, 13 = resolves last. This is ONLY to resolve NAR conflicts (i.e. Sticky Fruit Vendor vs. Rolestopper), otherwise NAR resolves according to conventional NAR standards.
Your NAR Priority Ranking is: 5

Win:

You win when when your faction has reached equal or greater numbers as the town, regardless of if the town still has killing power available.

Game thread here: viewtopic.php?f=23&t=86003

Mafia PT here:

Confirm:

Please confirm by responding with your alignment, role name, and favorite animal gif!

Night 1 deadline: (expired on 2021-03-09 13:12:40)

@SS why are you pointing out we were offwagon? You know we had no choice in that unless Penguin had voted TFL before noon.

[Smoke and Mirrors]

I'm going to hold off until everyone checks in - but I'll be sure to gif post afterward.

Am I even eligible to win again?

Sure but as runnerup in the last game, if Raya ties with you, she’ll win, otherwise you’re still eligible.

[Smoke and Mirrors]

Now before I read the day, I wish to simply state that PenguinPower is the greatest listmod on mafiascum! Such a mighty role of preparing the newbies for their first game upon our great site is one worthy of recognition.

And now to business, still without reading.
VOTE: Smoke and Mirrors - Your loyalty was tested, and you failed the test.

Dafuq? We’re mod confirmed.


VOTE: Mad Hatters Tea Party

[Smoke and Mirrors]

Now before I read the day, I wish to simply state that PenguinPower is the greatest listmod on mafiascum! Such a mighty role of preparing the newbies for their first game upon our great site is one worthy of recognition.

And now to business, still without reading.
VOTE: Smoke and Mirrors - Your loyalty was tested, and you failed the test.

Dafuq? We’re mod confirmed.


VOTE: Mad Hatters Tea Party

I have no clue what MHTP are even talking about but bs shitpushes like this more often than not tend to come from scum.

[Smoke and Mirrors]

KOALAWANG

A ROUND OF KOALAWANG HAS ENDED

The winner of this round of koalawang is PenguinPower!

This is obviously a town role and is mod confirmed, so MHTP voting us for what reads like bs fake reasons, pings scum to me.

[Smoke and Mirrors]

They're claiming a guilty on you...seem brazen to do as scum with a D1 scum elim.

That’s not possible.

[Smoke and Mirrors]

We shall see if MHTP elaborates

I really don’t gaf what they say, I know my role pm and they’re fucking lying and I will happily go fucking 1v1 with them to prove it.

[Smoke and Mirrors]

Cool but they haven't really said anything yet

I mean - they've said they have a guilty. That's something.

Well I know that isn’t possible. If they are claiming that it’s false. And if you run us up, you will find that out.

[Smoke and Mirrors]

it's a weirdly specific phrase in mafia

but sure - let's get clarity

I know I’m town, simple as that. Therefore it has to be fake.

[Smoke and Mirrors]

VOTE: Smoke and Mirrors

Cool, second scum.

[Smoke and Mirrors]

VOTE: Battle Mage

Maybe MHTP just got a false result on us but BM jumping on us is definitely scum.

[Smoke and Mirrors]

VOTE: Battle Mage

Maybe MHTP just got a false result on us but BM jumping on us is definitely scum.

lol what?

I know whatever their reason is, it’s wrong but no way you jumping on us like that ever comes from town.

[Smoke and Mirrors]

I am indeed NAR 1. I was unsure if I would be permitted to proclaim that part of my role.

My understanding of the loyal modifier is that my action only succeeds when I target someone of the same alignment, my claim therefore enforces a 1vs1 scenario which is such a suboptimal play to the point of a potential game throw as scum.

I don’t understand then because there’s no way that shouldn’t have succeeded. Something weird is happening. Maybe similar to DnD where Wisdom had this crazy role that subverted things.

So, I think your result must have somehow been tampered with by scum, so probably shouldn’t have reacted like that but brainbomb on MU tried to run me up with a fake guilty but I think BM suddenly jumping on me like that is hella sus, so I think he’s a better elim.

[Smoke and Mirrors]

Sorry Nancy, but it's actually a very plausible guilty and I'm still not sure of your alignment here

If you're town, just sit and hope there's an explanation someone is willing to give because nothing else can realistically be done

If nothing changes I can see myself voting you when I've had more time to use the day phase

There has to be. I’m not lying here.

[Smoke and Mirrors]

This is a Krazy game and scum somehow fucked with MHTP’s results because we’re not scum here. I don’t know what more I need to say to convince you but if you’re okay with miseliming me, I honestly don’t know what to tell you.

[Smoke and Mirrors]

@SS, we’re not fucking scum here! This is so extremely frustrating that we’re going to get run up because scum probably targeted us with some shit. I can’t see any other plausible explanation because I actually think MHTP isn’t lying but I know their results have to be wrong.

[Smoke and Mirrors]

Well, if it was town who interfered with it then that's cool as they will claim it

I'm not one to leave a guilty hanging, though

I don’t care if you’re purposely being stupid here or what. I’m literally fucking telling you there is no fucking way in hell we’re scum here and I will fucking do whatever’s fucking necessary to prove it because I’m not fucking lying.

[Smoke and Mirrors]

@SS maybe you’re scum who bussed TFL because you know I’m not lying and for some reason you obviously don’t care, so I want to know why? Why don’t you believe me?

[Smoke and Mirrors]

That I am aware, the only options available that would save your hides would be a claimed roleblocker or redirector. I do not believe that there is a viable alternative at this stage from a mechanical perspective.

My hide is linked to my neighbourised target.

I know we’re flipping town. And SS should 100% know I’m telling the truth here, so them not believing me here is extremely concerning.

[Smoke and Mirrors]

Well, if it was town who interfered with it then that's cool as they will claim it

I'm not one to leave a guilty hanging, though

I don’t care if you’re purposely being stupid here or what. I’m literally fucking telling you there is no fucking way in hell we’re scum here and I will fucking do whatever’s fucking necessary to prove it because I’m not fucking lying.

i know probably nobody cares, but I don't like or approve of this abusive language. it's completely unnecessary.

Well I don’t like being wrongly sr and/or miselimed, so deal with it.

[Smoke and Mirrors]

Nancy, I'm willing to work with you because I'm leaning town on you by play, but it's a pretty hard guilty and if it stands then you literally cannot be left alive

I’m literally telling you it’s not possible. Short of actually pulling a Varsoon here and getting modkilled, I don’t know what else to do.

[Smoke and Mirrors]

Well, if it was town who interfered with it then that's cool as they will claim it

I'm not one to leave a guilty hanging, though

I don’t care if you’re purposely being stupid here or what. I’m literally fucking telling you there is no fucking way in hell we’re scum here and I will fucking do whatever’s fucking necessary to prove it because I’m not fucking lying.

i know probably nobody cares, but I don't like or approve of this abusive language. it's completely unnecessary.

Well I don’t like being wrongly sr and/or miselimed, so deal with it.

no, that's not an acceptable response. just cool it with the cussing.

I think your reponse to this is the scummiest so far. Jjh should absolutely know better. I will not be lectured to when I’m being falsely run up, so if you’re seriously that offended, fucking ignore me and I’ll do likewise.

[Smoke and Mirrors]

Well, if it was town who interfered with it then that's cool as they will claim it

I'm not one to leave a guilty hanging, though

I don’t care if you’re purposely being stupid here or what. I’m literally fucking telling you there is no fucking way in hell we’re scum here and I will fucking do whatever’s fucking necessary to prove it because I’m not fucking lying.

i know probably nobody cares, but I don't like or approve of this abusive language. it's completely unnecessary.

Well I don’t like being wrongly sr and/or miselimed, so deal with it.

It is unfortunate, however, the mechanical situation implies this is not an miselimination.

Options available to you currently are to provide what information you can should the unfortunate event occur that my action has been affected and you are indeed town.

I know my role pm, so it obviously has to be wrong. There is no way that’s possible. I really don’t care what you believe.

[Smoke and Mirrors]

It doesn't matter what you say is possible here- we have a scenario that very strongly points to you being scum and you can't influence that scenario.

On the positive side for you, I think it's highly likely that if MHTP was blocked here in some way it was by town rather than scum

A scum roleblocker or similar would have been on Mastina

Okay, I would prefer not to out this but if we’re going to get run up I suppose I will have to. :/

[Smoke and Mirrors]

Unfortunately, it would be the only way to save you currently.

I do not believe you would act in such an irrational manner if you were truly town. You are more fixed on a false positive than on other possible options that could have led there.

You don’t know my meta then because you’d 100% know what you’re saying here is bs. Go ahead, check it.

[Smoke and Mirrors]

I am not strongly opposed to your elim

That's not the same thing as being anti-town

Yes it is because I know you know I’m not lying and I honestly don’t understand why that doesn’t matter to you at all?

[Smoke and Mirrors]

I am explicitly not done for the day

If you have an explanation for the lack of hood then you should have outed that some time ago. If not, I dunno what would be worth claiming here

Why are you being so antitown?

Flip this next please.

[Smoke and Mirrors]

I am explicitly not done for the day

If you have an explanation for the lack of hood then you should have outed that some time ago. If not, I dunno what would be worth claiming here

Why are you being so antitown?

Flip this next please.

I think it’s pretty damned obvious BM is scum here. How are you seriously not seeing this?

[Smoke and Mirrors]

Can we elim BM today?

That would be nice.

Yeah, TFL voted BM then immediately tried to shift to people who he said were suspicious for BM votes

[Smoke and Mirrors]

Can we elim BM today?

That would be nice.

Yeah, TFL voted BM then immediately tried to shift to people who he said were suspicious for BM votes

He has something to do with MHTP’s results, bank on it.

[Smoke and Mirrors]

Can we elim BM today?

That would be nice.

Yeah, TFL voted BM then immediately tried to shift to people who he said were suspicious for BM votes

He has something to do with MHTP’s results, bank on it.

Some reason you’re ignoring this @MHTP? He’s way to eager to ram my miselim through. This isn’t town. He’s some how responsible for your result.

BM had sus interactions with TFL and now he’s hard driving my miselim. Please think people. God!

[Smoke and Mirrors]

the wagons are blah for me generally.....The Rathe wagon atp seem bad. Its possible they are newbcum but I think we need more time to sort. Honestly i have no idea on how to sort Mastina atp. Her play is just wierd but I am not sure if it just normal Mastina weird or scum Mastina weird. Like Rathe, I want to take at least another day to sort her .Also, Mastina seems like an easy mislynch for today

I agree with Reya here BM seems like a good compromise vote here. Not sure if they are scum but seems they will more likely flip scum then Mastina or Rathe

VOTE: Batle Mage

Subtle can you explain your vote. It seems opportunistic. Why are you voting BM here?

VOTE: Battle Mage

Definitely not a vanity wagon now lol

Honestly I dont like this post at all.........

Just notice all of the Rathe votes minus wheme have suddenly jumped on the BM wagon and I am not sure what to make of that

[Smoke and Mirrors]

I'm actually feeling pretty good about town!bm here, at present. When certain players show up I'll go find scum

So you’re just going to ignore #1247 then?

[Smoke and Mirrors]

the wagons are blah for me generally.....The Rathe wagon atp seem bad. Its possible they are newbcum but I think we need more time to sort. Honestly i have no idea on how to sort Mastina atp. Her play is just wierd but I am not sure if it just normal Mastina weird or scum Mastina weird. Like Rathe, I want to take at least another day to sort her .Also, Mastina seems like an easy mislynch for today

I agree with Reya here BM seems like a good compromise vote here. Not sure if they are scum but seems they will more likely flip scum then Mastina or Rathe

VOTE: Batle Mage

Subtle can you explain your vote. It seems opportunistic. Why are you voting BM here?

VOTE: Battle Mage

Definitely not a vanity wagon now lol

Honestly I dont like this post at all.........

Just notice all of the Rathe votes minus wheme have suddenly jumped on the BM wagon and I am not sure what to make of that

Will you people fucking read or what? If people are going to play this dumb and ignore this then yeah go ahead ahead and miselim me. Town 100% deserves to lose this. When we flip green, it’s on jjh’s head for not listening to me.

[Smoke and Mirrors]

Can we elim BM today?

That would be nice.

Yeah, TFL voted BM then immediately tried to shift to people who he said were suspicious for BM votes

He has something to do with MHTP’s results, bank on it.

Some reason you’re ignoring this @MHTP? He’s way to eager to ram my miselim through. This isn’t town. He’s some how responsible for your result.

BM had sus interactions with TFL and now he’s hard driving my miselim. Please think people. God!

Very Well.

Interactions that can prevent my neighbourising are Roleblock and Redirection.
I had claimed no hostile ability, simply that I hold the loyal modifier in 2 crumbs.
Given the great effect of Mastinas claim, she would then become a greater priority target.
A redirection action from yourself to scum seems incredibly unlikely.

If you do flip green, Battle Mage will be subject to scrutiny.
I had claimed I believe Koalawang to be antitown and a distraction ability - balanced by the cost of it this seems appropriate.

Mechanically you are now the best elimination.

No, and if you were actually using your brain, you would know that it’s BM but I honestly don’t gaf anymore.

VOTE: Smoke and Mirrors

We’re flipping town but since no one’s listening, I don’t want to be in this stupid game anymore.

[Smoke and Mirrors]

It's not that I am not listening to you. I just disagree with the majority of the things you are saying.

Self voting achieves nothing when I have told you to just wait.

Wait for what? You’ve made it abundantly clear you think I’m lying and eventhough it should be beyond obvious I’m not, apparently it isn’t. :/

[Smoke and Mirrors]

I was very wrong about Fuzzy, my bad. I guess I was reading too much into his early play and not so much into his later play. Since I guess scum would know this now I'm going to claim that I started a neighborhood with Fuzzy. He was a bit on the quiet side in the PT so maybe I should have caught on to that but he was also a little on the quieter side in the thread so I didn't think too much into it.

In the PT Fuzzy said that he town reads Mastina off the top of his head but said he's usually wrong early game. We were also agreeing there that she would be a bad D1 kill for town. He also said that Nora is obvtown based on role.

I asked about Penguin and April. Hadn't sorted Penguin yet and April was kind of a 50/50.

What PT? Why did you wait until now to mention this?

[Smoke and Mirrors]

i don't like this game

I WILL DAYVIG YOU

Waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaiiiiiiit a seconddddddd......

MOD:

ACTIVE -- Day 2 Afternoon Sniper -- On Day 2, in the AFTERNOON phase (after the first 72 hours), you may target a player with a killing action. If that player dies, they will show as being killed with

blown away by a high caliber rifle

Did this need to be submitted publicly into the gamethread, or could it be via PM or in the mafia topic?

(If you can't tell, Smoke/Mirrors mentioning a dayvig when scum had a dayvig is...not looking good for their chances of being town here. If Smoke/Mirrors are actually town, this has to be like a top ten most unfortunate coincidence sort of deal where a string of the most hilariously condemning evidence piles onto a town player, because uhhhhhhh...yeah, this definitely IS incriminating given what Fuzzy flipped.)

That was all Pooky, we obviously aren’t dayvig.

[Smoke and Mirrors]

That’s Koalawang

[Smoke and Mirrors]

I was very wrong about Fuzzy, my bad. I guess I was reading too much into his early play and not so much into his later play. Since I guess scum would know this now I'm going to claim that I started a neighborhood with Fuzzy. He was a bit on the quiet side in the PT so maybe I should have caught on to that but he was also a little on the quieter side in the thread so I didn't think too much into it.

In the PT Fuzzy said that he town reads Mastina off the top of his head but said he's usually wrong early game. We were also agreeing there that she would be a bad D1 kill for town. He also said that Nora is obvtown based on role.

I asked about Penguin and April. Hadn't sorted Penguin yet and April was kind of a 50/50.

What PT? Why did you wait until now to mention this?

I started a neighborhood with Fuzzy. But you already knew that. When was I supposed to mention this?

If I knew that I obviously wouldn’t have asked.

[Smoke and Mirrors]

You asked to make yourself appear uninformed. Fuzzy already told you that in the scum PT

Okay, now I’m actually being trolled.

[Smoke and Mirrors]

so smoke and mirrors wasnt neighborized is this correct

Raya is 100% lying here if she says otherwise. Cool TFL/Raya/BM, game solved. Okay at least now I can die happy.

[Smoke and Mirrors]

That's Rathe, not me ??

You’re spouting some bs about me and Fuzzy apparently in the scum PT when you know damned well, this is the very first I heard anything about you and he having a hood.

[Smoke and Mirrors]

How would I know that? The recent claims are suggesting you're scum with Fuzzy. And I highly doubt Fuzzy kept our neighborhood to himself. And your post made no sense. "What PT" it's in the claim in the post you quoted. "Why did I wait until now to mention this" why would I claim before having reason to?

Sounds to me you're fishing to see if there's more info about my role.

When did the neighbourize happen and why did I not hear about it before now? You can lie all you want but this is the first I’ve heard of it. I’m not “fishing” for anything other than why you’re lying about this?

[Smoke and Mirrors]

so smoke and mirrors wasnt neighborized is this correct

This is correct. I have received moderator confirmation that my action was received. I would assume therefore it was actioned appropriately.

I am curious as to why you have called the end of your game, SAM.

Is that a serious question?

Did you see anyone playing?

[Smoke and Mirrors]

so smoke and mirrors wasnt neighborized is this correct

This is correct. I have received moderator confirmation that my action was received. I would assume therefore it was actioned appropriately.

I am curious as to why you have called the end of your game, SAM.

Is that a serious question?

Did you see anyone playing?

I do recall you being quite provoking about getting people to play previously, and given your previous comments that "only scum have need to to fear the game" you have theoretically denied town a tool for use in closing the game without a winner.

You do really good trolls. They should hire you at parties.

[Smoke and Mirrors]

How would I know that? The recent claims are suggesting you're scum with Fuzzy. And I highly doubt Fuzzy kept our neighborhood to himself. And your post made no sense. "What PT" it's in the claim in the post you quoted. "Why did I wait until now to mention this" why would I claim before having reason to?

Sounds to me you're fishing to see if there's more info about my role.

When did the neighbourize happen and why did I not hear about it before now? You can lie all you want but this is the first I’ve heard of it. I’m not “fishing” for anything other than why you’re lying about this?

What makes you think I'm lying?

You’re saying something I know for a fact isn’t true. You may or may not actually be lying but you’re still wrong.

[Smoke and Mirrors]

Sorry Nancy, but it's actually a very plausible guilty and I'm still not sure of your alignment here
If you're town, just sit and hope there's an explanation someone is willing to give because nothing else can realistically be done
If nothing changes I can see myself voting you when I've had more time to use the day phase

Basically, this.

I am not 100% sure Smoke/Mirrors is town or scum.
But barring any other explanation. Lightning rod, rolestopper targeting Smoke/Mirrors, roleblocker targeting Mad Hatters Tea Party, alien targeting either S/M or MHTP, busdriver driving S/M with someone else, redirector. (Most of which if existing would probably be scum disinclined to claim their result.)
The mechanical guilty is not something we can ignore.

If nobody comes forward with an explanation for the failure, the possibilities are only, 1: scum caused the failure, or, 2: the failure was due to targeting scum and getting a guilty.

The possibility of the latter is too strong to ignore.

So I believe that Smoke/Mirrors should, 100%, be the elimination today because it's either a guilty or gives us information about the scum's PRs, confirming they have a Manipulation-category role. The former puts us in a position to possibly have a literally perfect town game with zero town deaths and three dead scum; the latter, while costing us the life of a town player, gives us a small cautionary tale and lets us know that scum have a method to interfere with our roles.

Given we're so early into the day--it feels premature to end the day on a Smoke and Mirrors elimination; we should give it time, let people post, get collected, all and all in general talk, discuss, get any info out that they feel they need to get out, air any suspicions they feel they need to give, etc. (Thus why I'm not voting right now.)

But Smoke and Mirrors absolutely

should

be the elimination here.
(Plus on a side note. They're one of the only slots who'd kill either me or Superb Subtlety N1. Other players could kill the Ali/jjh hydra, but Smoke/Mirrors is legit the only slot who I could see targeting either of us, honestly.)

Lightning rod isn’t possible, because unless I’m secretly strongwilled, I got TFL’s role PM as my feedback. If someone did interfere with S&M, they absolutely should claim they did so as well.

You got TFL’s role pm? What?

[Smoke and Mirrors]

How would I know that? The recent claims are suggesting you're scum with Fuzzy. And I highly doubt Fuzzy kept our neighborhood to himself. And your post made no sense. "What PT" it's in the claim in the post you quoted. "Why did I wait until now to mention this" why would I claim before having reason to?

Sounds to me you're fishing to see if there's more info about my role.

When did the neighbourize happen and why did I not hear about it before now? You can lie all you want but this is the first I’ve heard of it. I’m not “fishing” for anything other than why you’re lying about this?

What makes you think I'm lying?

You’re saying something I know for a fact isn’t true. You may or may not actually be lying but you’re still wrong.

What specifically do you think I'm lying about?

I’m saying that I don’t know for sure whether you’re lying or not but what you’re saying I 100% know is false. I had no knowledge of you neighbourizing TFL, until you literally posted that itt and you’re insisting the converse. I’m already getting run up. What possibly do you think I’d have to gain by lying about this?

[Smoke and Mirrors]

[Smoke and Mirrors]

How would I know that? The recent claims are suggesting you're scum with Fuzzy. And I highly doubt Fuzzy kept our neighborhood to himself. And your post made no sense. "What PT" it's in the claim in the post you quoted. "Why did I wait until now to mention this" why would I claim before having reason to?

Sounds to me you're fishing to see if there's more info about my role.

When did the neighbourize happen and why did I not hear about it before now? You can lie all you want but this is the first I’ve heard of it. I’m not “fishing” for anything other than why you’re lying about this?

What makes you think I'm lying?

You’re saying something I know for a fact isn’t true. You may or may not actually be lying but you’re still wrong.

What specifically do you think I'm lying about?

I’m saying that I don’t know for sure whether you’re lying or not but what you’re saying I 100% know is false. I had no knowledge of you neighbourizing TFL, until you literally posted that itt and you’re insisting the converse. I’m already getting run up. What possibly do you think I’d have to gain by lying about this?

I have no info telling me that you had knowledge of the neighborhood. I am saying this because the recent claims suggest that you're scum. Since Fuzzy was scum and knew about the neighborhood it is almost guaranteed that Fuzzy told his scumbuddies which seems to include you. I believe you're asking me those questions about my role to either appear uninformed and confused or to try to fish for more info from my role.

Me saying that you knew about our neighborhood is not me lying or claiming anything. I am simply stating that I strongly believe you're scum and know about the role from Fuzzy.

Well I did not know and you can keep spinning that bs until hell freezes over for all I care. You want to think I’m lying about this because why? You think anyone is seriously going to care that I didn’t know about the neighbourize and ignore the alleged guilty claim?

[Smoke and Mirrors]

Sorry Nancy, but it's actually a very plausible guilty and I'm still not sure of your alignment here
If you're town, just sit and hope there's an explanation someone is willing to give because nothing else can realistically be done
If nothing changes I can see myself voting you when I've had more time to use the day phase

Basically, this.

I am not 100% sure Smoke/Mirrors is town or scum.
But barring any other explanation. Lightning rod, rolestopper targeting Smoke/Mirrors, roleblocker targeting Mad Hatters Tea Party, alien targeting either S/M or MHTP, busdriver driving S/M with someone else, redirector. (Most of which if existing would probably be scum disinclined to claim their result.)
The mechanical guilty is not something we can ignore.

If nobody comes forward with an explanation for the failure, the possibilities are only, 1: scum caused the failure, or, 2: the failure was due to targeting scum and getting a guilty.

The possibility of the latter is too strong to ignore.

So I believe that Smoke/Mirrors should, 100%, be the elimination today because it's either a guilty or gives us information about the scum's PRs, confirming they have a Manipulation-category role. The former puts us in a position to possibly have a literally perfect town game with zero town deaths and three dead scum; the latter, while costing us the life of a town player, gives us a small cautionary tale and lets us know that scum have a method to interfere with our roles.

Given we're so early into the day--it feels premature to end the day on a Smoke and Mirrors elimination; we should give it time, let people post, get collected, all and all in general talk, discuss, get any info out that they feel they need to get out, air any suspicions they feel they need to give, etc. (Thus why I'm not voting right now.)

But Smoke and Mirrors absolutely

should

be the elimination here.
(Plus on a side note. They're one of the only slots who'd kill either me or Superb Subtlety N1. Other players could kill the Ali/jjh hydra, but Smoke/Mirrors is legit the only slot who I could see targeting either of us, honestly.)

Lightning rod isn’t possible, because unless I’m secretly strongwilled, I got TFL’s role PM as my feedback. If someone did interfere with S&M, they absolutely should claim they did so as well.

You got TFL’s role pm? What?

I’m a coroner. I check a dead player at night and receive their role PM, including any missing information. This information obviously doesn’t include things like other names in the PM or whatnot. Have you not read anything I’ve said?

Yes I obviously understand your role, I just misunderstood your post.

I was going to out something that I didn’t realize when I initially got my role pm but jjh correctly pointed out that it was too late and that no one would believe me anyway. And if no one will believe it, then outing it would only help scum, so no point.

[Smoke and Mirrors]

I welcome any more info you might be able to give, Nancy

While we can't necessarily believe it at face value, if you're town then any info might bring us closer to the truth

oops

What part of my saying outing it would only help scum atp, did you miss? Had I read my role pm correctly from the beginning, I would 100% out it but if no one will believe it’s pointless. Look I obviously didn’t know about the stupid neighbourize and I’m even getting bs shaded for that, so wtf’s even the point?

Anyone who’s even remotely familiar with my meta knows I don’t do fake slips like ever and it’s extremely laughable that Raya is seriously suggesting that whether or not anyone believes that, it’s going to make an iota of a difference.

Like people are seriously going to say, it’s beyond obvious that Nancy’s telling the truth about the neighbourize based off of meta, let’s totally ignore the alleged guilty claim. lolololol

[Smoke and Mirrors]

How would I know that? The recent claims are suggesting you're scum with Fuzzy. And I highly doubt Fuzzy kept our neighborhood to himself. And your post made no sense. "What PT" it's in the claim in the post you quoted. "Why did I wait until now to mention this" why would I claim before having reason to?

Sounds to me you're fishing to see if there's more info about my role.

When did the neighbourize happen and why did I not hear about it before now? You can lie all you want but this is the first I’ve heard of it. I’m not “fishing” for anything other than why you’re lying about this?

What makes you think I'm lying?

You’re saying something I know for a fact isn’t true. You may or may not actually be lying but you’re still wrong.

What specifically do you think I'm lying about?

I’m saying that I don’t know for sure whether you’re lying or not but what you’re saying I 100% know is false. I had no knowledge of you neighbourizing TFL, until you literally posted that itt and you’re insisting the converse. I’m already getting run up. What possibly do you think I’d have to gain by lying about this?

I have no info telling me that you had knowledge of the neighborhood. I am saying this because the recent claims suggest that you're scum. Since Fuzzy was scum and knew about the neighborhood it is almost guaranteed that Fuzzy told his scumbuddies which seems to include you. I believe you're asking me those questions about my role to either appear uninformed and confused or to try to fish for more info from my role.

Me saying that you knew about our neighborhood is not me lying or claiming anything. I am simply stating that I strongly believe you're scum and know about the role from Fuzzy.

Well I did not know and you can keep spinning that bs until hell freezes over for all I care. You want to think I’m lying about this because why? You think anyone is seriously going to care that I didn’t know about the neighbourize and ignore the alleged guilty claim?

No which is why I think you're fishing

More people troll me please.

[Smoke and Mirrors]

I might believe it

You already said it was too late because I waited too long, so people will just say it’s convenient and I’m making shit up. I was really upset at first but I really think my miselim is more useful for town atp than keeping me in the game. So unless something gets posted that would otherwise clear me, there really is no point.

[Smoke and Mirrors]

Open invitation?

Sure go for it, this is probably better than Kolawang anyway.

So we so far have two contenders:

MHTP for saying that according to them, prematurely ending my apparently antitown role hurts town

and 2:

Raya for inexplicably accusing me of rolefishing. Like she’s OOH claiming that I clearly knew about TFL’s neighbourize but then she’s also then not accusing me of saying that to derail my elim but lololol somehow try to “rolefish” her

. Like make up your mind ffs. Yoi either think I’m lying about the neighbourize or you don’t. If you think I’m actually lying about that, there’s absolutely nothing to rolefilsh. Only way that’s even possible is if I’m actually telling the truth because otherwise I’d presumably already know whatever the actual fuck she’s even talking about.

So @Penguin, let’s see if you can top that and you can win the first non-existent

LET’s HAVE FUN TROLLING NANCY PRIZE

. I believe in you dude. Let’s see you top that extremely stiff competition.

lmfaoooo

[Smoke and Mirrors]

Why don't you say it anyway if it's the truth though

I am looking for a convenient truth

It will only help scum unless it get’s believed which it won’t so no point.

[Smoke and Mirrors]

Let’s play HAVE FUN TROLLING NANCY

[Smoke and Mirrors]

Why don't you say it anyway if it's the truth though

I am looking for a convenient truth

It will only help scum unless it get’s believed which it won’t so no point.

How does it help scum? If you flip town won't it get revealed anyway?

Your play is in line with town!you and if there's a reason that explains the guilty then I am willing to hear you out

There’s something in my role pm about Koalwang having a winner that affects NAs on me. That’s why I canceled it but it won’t matter, because scum will obviously kill MHTP to try and frame me if I survive this day, so that’s why outing that only helps scum.

[Smoke and Mirrors]

Are you functionally ascetic? Do you redirect to the koalawang winner? What's the deal?

I very clearly misunderstood my role pm when I initially got it.

What happens is that I apparently become aesetic or involuntarily commute only on the night where there’s a Koalawang winner but if the game ends without a winner, then I’m not.

There is a redirect tonight on either Penguin or Raya. Which one depends on whether or not Penguin is targeted by other NAs which would in essence cancel it out and would then fall on the runnerup which is of course Raya.

[Smoke and Mirrors]

so smoke and mirrors wasnt neighborized is this correct

This is correct. I have received moderator confirmation that my action was received. I would assume therefore it was actioned appropriately.

k it makes sense to me

VOTE: smoke and mirrors

VOTE: Rathe

[Smoke and Mirrors]

where mastina declared immortality

Funny you should mention immortality given my role.
(I gave Krazy three picks, my first which he went with has a strong association with that word.)

VOTE: Mastina
this is town and anyone not agreeing with it will be looked at tomorrow after her green flip/scum shot.

Fixed that for you.

I don't like all this softclaiming of having such a super strong role. This isn't how town handles having a strong PR on day 1

It is when you know what the role is and the player handling it.

I can get away with softing it because scum can't do anything about it.

Claiming the role is sub-optimal D1, but it doesn't really matter

that

much--the play is mostly the same regardless of whether I claim it, don't claim it with softclaims, or don't claim it with no claims. I just prefer the middle option because I like to.

I guarantee that were I to claim you would know why I've said everything I have and agree with it, that everything I said was true, that there isn't MUCH of a difference between me claiming it and not claiming it, but that I am right in my assessment that while it doesn't matter much, claiming it on D1 is still notably suboptimal to not claiming it.

Plus, scum aren't gonna

actually

guess my role in spite of the softclaims. They can't. I am so confident that they can't guess my role that it allows me that freedom to softclaim all I like. I can be as blatant as I want with my soft; the scum still won't know what hits 'em until I fullclaim.

If anyone else votes there I will hold you personally accountable for what happens afterwards

I mean.

mastina(5)

~ April Ludgate, Korina, Rathe, Whemestar, Noraabear

The slot has my three scumreads on it in the order of strength on them (April > Korina > Rather strongest to weakest), plus a player who I initially scumread that's prone to OMGUS'ing and tunneling even if the player who scumread them later revisits that read and thinks it to not be true anymore (Noraabear); the only vote there which is clearly town and yet not easily explained is Whemestar.

which means mastina and rathe wagons both on town. to revisit

It's possible rathe is town but rathe is a poe scumread of mine.

I realize rathe is LHF--but the poe is the poe.

Smoke and Mirrors are town by play and town by claim. Their play more recently is less town than I'd prefer, but their early play radiated town in a way I don't think is scum. Even without that, their role is one that I don't think is scum, and we have mod confirmation that it IS a real role. Or close enough. (The mod has confirmed the existence of koalawang being a game mechanic; the prizes for it aren't confirmed but the mod-confirmation of koalawang being a thing confirms the role, the details of the role are frankly irrelevant.)

Superb Subtlety are clearly town here--given my slight doubt in Smoke/Mirrors, I actually am thinking of backing them up. In many ways, they're the inverse to Smoke/Mirrors: instead of starting strong and degrading to 'okay', they started 'okay' and have gotten stronger and stronger later into the day.

WhemeStar's play has radiated town and his claim looks incredibly town.

Raya seems incredibly town by play, natural, at ease, reasonable, having good stances and opinions.

Mad Hatters Tea Party also has looked incredibly town the entire time, start to finish.

Noraabear's play could be scum, but I don't think it is; Noraabear's play overall looks town and the claim is also one that I think is town. Noraabear was dead on the money even if she insists she didn't have a real point when she said that the reactions in that area damn Korina because she handled that area in an incredibly town manner and Korina bluntly, didn't.

PenguinPower and Battle Mage are lesser townreads but still look more town than not.

Which leaves a POE of {TFL, Rathe, Korina, April Ludgate}. Of the four, TFL looks vaguely town albeit not enough to be a real solid townread.

So the POE is {

Rathe

, Korina, April Ludgate}.

I realize for D1 this is probably not a perfect solve, but perfect is the enemy of good and this is good enough of a solve for D1.

Ding ding!

[Smoke and Mirrors]

(For the record, I am somewhat skeptical of the claim and still think Smoke/Mirrors should be the elimination.)

See jjh, I told you, now I helped scum and it made no difference

UNVOTE:

[Smoke and Mirrors]

VOTE: Smoke and Mirrors

Fuck it!

If Mastina who has never read me wrong can’t tell this is my towngame, then fucking lim me. My slot will be compromised now even if MHTP gets an inno on me.

[Smoke and Mirrors]

It was helpful to me

I wanted to know about any possible shenanigans in play that could prevent someone from being targeted by something

Mastina wasn’t in FL vs Hectic where town!Pooky fakeclaimed SK to sort out Hopkirk - a mason and Lunar - town rolestopper. He fakeclaims shit like dayvig all the damn time.

I also had a secret D2 action which can’t be verified which will be revealed once I’m flipped.

[Smoke and Mirrors]

Can you unvote again; I really don't want the day to end until I've found all the mushrooms

Mastina wants me dead. What mushrooms?

UNVOTE:

Fine. but if I’m going to get miselimed, at least don’t deprive me of the dignity of being on my wagon. I deserve that much.

[Smoke and Mirrors]

Why don't you say it anyway if it's the truth though

I am looking for a convenient truth

It will only help scum unless it get’s believed which it won’t so no point.

How does it help scum? If you flip town won't it get revealed anyway?

Your play is in line with town!you and if there's a reason that explains the guilty then I am willing to hear you out

There’s something in my role pm about Koalwang having a winner that affects NAs on me. That’s why I canceled it but it won’t matter, because scum will obviously kill MHTP to try and frame me if I survive this day, so that’s why outing that only helps scum.

This information would've been vital sooner, have you crumbed this at all between your heads?

Yes it would have been and obviously no, which is why we’re probably getting miselimed. I would think that out of all of the players here, Mastina would be the one player not to ignore this because unlike you, she has meta on me, so that pisses me off more than anything.

[Smoke and Mirrors]

VOTE: Smoke and Mirrors

Fuck it!

If Mastina who has never read me wrong can’t tell this is my towngame, then fucking lim me. My slot will be compromised now even if MHTP gets an inno on me.

My shot is fired. I cannot glean any further information from a night action.

You were my last hope. I thought if I somehow survived this day, Mastina could protect you and prove my claim.

[Smoke and Mirrors]

I was granted a post restriction for my first post, the pentaly being 2 negative role modifiers (Asectic/Macho) that that helps at all. Mushroom were not mentioned.

Well great then, scum is probably winning this then. TFL’s buddies are apparently playing extremely well and Mastina is apparently fine with helping that along.

[Smoke and Mirrors]

VOTE: Smoke and Mirrors

Fuck it!

If Mastina who has never read me wrong can’t tell this is my towngame, then fucking lim me. My slot will be compromised now even if MHTP gets an inno on me.

My shot is fired. I cannot glean any further information from a night action.

You were my last hope. I thought if I somehow survived this day, Mastina could protect you and prove my claim.

My slot is now permanently compromised because MHTP can’t prove my claim, so even if I don’t get miselimed today, I obviously should never make it anywhere near Elo. I will tell you this, my role - contrary to what MHTP believed is incredibly protown and they were not wrong that ending Koalwang abruptly like I did possibly deprived town of something valuable?

However, in my defence no one was playing and I didn’t think they would after their claim and several people wanting to hang me, plus I knew the only way for me not to be aesetic tonight was to do just that but jokes on me I guess because it clearly didn’t matter. :/

[Smoke and Mirrors]

Scum aren't winning this

Scum are down a dayvig, town are down nothing

Had Fuzzy survived until today, I would be confitown today but he’s not so I’m fucked.

[Smoke and Mirrors]

Scum aren't winning this

Scum are down a dayvig, town are down nothing

Had Fuzzy survived until today, I would be confitown today but he’s not so I’m fucked.

No inno claim to prove I didn’t lie about the aesetic/involuntary commuter thing. No way to prove my secret D2 ability is real. Why did I even sign up for this?