TM 2021: A normal roguelike

[Aristophanes]

Aww man I wanted those soul hearts!

I'll give you eternal hearts instead <3

=D

[Isis]

[Isis]

Votecount 3.F

• Augustus
  Caesar (He/Him)
  (0)
  
• Aristophanes (He/Him)
  (1) xRECKONERx
  
• Ydrasse
  (She/Her)
  (0)
  
• Creature (He/Him)
  (5) Adorable, DeasVail, Augustus Caesar, The Bulge, Ydrasse
  
• xofelf (They/Them)
  (0)
  
• DeasVail (He/Him)
  (0)
  
• The
  Bulge (Any/Any)
  (0)
  
• Adorable (She/Her)
  (0)
  
• xRECKONERx (He/Him)
  (1) Creature

Not Voting (2): Aristophanes, xofelf
With nine alive, it takes five votes to make a decision.

[Isis]

Creature has been eliminated. He was a

Vanilla Townie

.

[Isis]

Night actions are due in (expired on 2021-02-28 01:00:00).

[Isis]

Augustus Caesar died during the night. He was a

Jack of all Trades(Mailman, Psychologist, Mason-Finder, Vanilla Cop)

.

[Isis]

Summary

Sirius9121 (deceased

Vanilla Townie

, eliminated Day 2)
Hectic=Augustus Caesar (deceased

Jack of all Trades(Mailman, Psychologist, Mason-Finder, Vanilla Cop)

, killed Night 3)
Aristophanes (alive)
Datisi (deceased

Town Mason

, killed Night 2)
Ydrasse=Summer Nights (alive)
Creature (deceased

Vanilla Townie

, eliminated Day 3)
xofelf (alive)
DeasVail (alive)
The Bulge (alive)
Adorable (alive)
petapan (deceased

Vanilla Townie

, killed Night 1)
xRECKONERx (alive)
RCEnigma <-beeboy (deceased

Mafia Informed

, eliminated Day 1)

Alive:
Aristophanes (alive)
Ydrasse<-Summer Nights (alive)
xofelf (alive)
DeasVail (alive)
The Bulge (alive)
Adorable (alive)
xRECKONERx (alive)

With seven alive, it takes four votes to make a decision.
(expired on 2021-03-14 02:00:00)

[Aristophanes]

Well that's a flip I didn't see coming.

Uhmm...what does it say about Bulge, both having Psychs?

Hectic was an outside scumread but still.
The recent deaths lwave {adorable, xof, ydrasse} which isna weird trio.
Ydrasse seems both likely and unlikely, the latter due to Hectic's flip.

Imma think on this.

[Isis]

Turn one is very difficult. Overall, the way this one played out was rather fun.

As an aside, Untrod Tripod has found his eight ring and now worships Mahkleb, god of destruction, who heals him every time he kills an enemy.

[xRECKONERx]

I guess that's a good point.

I've been clearing Bulge on the claim mostly because the petapan crumb theory makes 100,000 levels of sense. If scum actually killed peta because they thought he was crumbing the JOAT that would point to Bulge having setup information knowing he could safely claim Psychologist and have a sweet kill crumb to go along w/ it.

Hrmmmmmm. I need to probably reset my entire game at this point. I still want to think Ari has high % chance being scum here because I don't think my three person scum pool was completely wrong (Ari/Creature/Hectic). But two town flips out of that pool with back-to-back power roles being killed gives me pause.

[DeasVail]

I am going to be busy for the next 24-48 hours but I will be spending the next few days really poring over everything and trying to make sense of the game. I have an idea of where I will want things to go this day but I don't want to make the same mistake as I did with Creature in pushing an elim just because it's what made sense based on my surface level approach to reading the game.
Apologies for not having anything right away but I will have a lot more words in the coming days.

[The Bulge]

hm

I'm pretty sure I found the right target (for clarity, Hectic was not my target, so we don't know if they've used a strongman/rb), and I just checked and the wiki does say a masonry legal under Normal guidelines requires at least 2 members [so we can rule out the possibility of single mason+finder/mailman combo]. I didnt bother with a full reread last night but that's where I'm gonna start today. at least Hectic's flip erases a huge amount of paranoia for me lol. that should clear things up in my head a bit. double psychs is interesting, and also hilarious that peta could have actually crumbed in his first post if the rand happened differently and I would have been locked in on the other tpr.

[DeasVail]

Also should we massclaim y/n?

[xofelf]

*sigh* That's unfortunate. I need to do a lot of rereading and shit. I really am not liking how we've had 2 rounds that have had quickish to death wagons that ended up being town and didn't clear much of anything up at all.

[Aristophanes]

Also should we massclaim y/n?

I was discussing this with the team when the day started and we decided that it's a necessity at this point.

so yes.

[Adorable]

I think we should mass claim today since we have 1 miselim left and if we miselim again the next day town will lose.

[DeasVail]

I can confirm that I am a VT

[Ydrasse]

been busy this weekend, but.

Spoiler:

whoever did this, know that i will find you, and you shall die. this is a threat, and a promise.

i'll be around more tomorrow, will chew on this overnight. leaning towards xofelf right now i think? xofelf and...??? i'll go from there but i'll start here.
@xofelf: 2588: did nothing at all clear up for you after these two flips? i don't think that either of the wagons were quick (unless you mean like, that they happened at the end of the day? for me it feels like everything is dragged out until we're almost out of time so like... i don't think personally despite them happening at end of day that they're super quick imo?) but mainly i just wanna know what is clear for you when you're around.

i'll be around more tomorrow too thoooo

[xRECKONERx]

Hang on -- why are we mass claiming, exactly?

I get people are spooked because we lost two power roles in a row but it's not even LYLO yet. All mass claim does is tell scum who to kill to get their most optimal endgame if they're trying to find other PRs. Plus not gonna lie, every kill scum has made has taken out a big question mark or scumlean for me, so I'm kind of a fan of forcing them to continue their current pattern.

I guess if there's a cop or tracker or some kind of investigative with a guilty then yeah, go ahead and out because it'd be nice to get a 1v1 today, but otherwise mass claiming seems dumb?

I don't think so... if you're scum, massclaiming is a terrible idea. You should claim first and then argue for why massclaiming is optimal

Pedit: Scum currently don't know the mason in the rest though

Our dead friend was adamant against mass claiming yesterday.

Funny enough, so was DeasVail:

A mass claim doesn’t achieve much at all for town right now

@DV: What has changed between today and yesterday to make you so eager to mass claim, whereas yesterday you said it wouldn't achieve anything for town?

[The Bulge]

I mean I see why we'd want to mass claim today over yesterday, with a PR dead and it being unlikely we accidentally force another to reveal since it's probably just me and the mason at this point. but why today over tomorrow? massclaiming today tells scum exactly who to kill (me, because they know who I'll protect) whereas withholding that information allows for more possible outcomes, maybe to our benefit.

[The Bulge]

Also should we massclaim y/n?

I was discussing this with the team when the day started and we decided that it's a necessity at this point.

so yes.

can you go into more detail here? why is it a necessity? who was saying what?

[xRECKONERx]

Did an iso scan of RCE for how many times he mentions or addresses each other player.

Datisi 12

DV 10

Hectic 8

Reck 6
Adorable 6

Peta 6

Sirius 4

xofelf 3
Ari 1
Bulge 1
Ydrasse 1

Creature 0

So -- if there was planned scum theater, the only person that could've been part of it is DV. The bulk of RCE's time spent in his brief stint in the game was engaging with DV and Datisi, and Datisi flipped town.

I also think it's worth noting the people that RCE just straight up didn't engage with - Ari, Bulge, and Ydrasse.

I don't know how valuable this is. This is like my third, fourth time rereading RCE's posts. There aren't many of them. Nothing is jumping out at me. Knowing we have some townflips from people I think had weird play around his wagon makes me wonder if the weirdness was the way in which RCE was caught (scum meta on beeboy who never even posted really), versus how much of the weirdness is from potential buddies trying to manuever in the game without looking awkward.

Notes from the re-read:
* DV and RCE's interactions feel weird. After like two RCE posts, DV hops in to unilaterally declare him as scum. Possible bus? In the scum PT: "Just come after me hard before anybody else, I'll fight as hard as I can but I'm probably dead anyway".
* xof's 829 is still so odd to me. I just cannot see scum!xof taking that tone and that angle on that post as RCE's buddy. I'd think scum would want to be committed to a read here on their buddy to get town cred for it. RCE already had a surge of momentum against them, the writing was on the wall, and I'd expect a buddy to either overcommit to the bus or give a full-throated defense as a hail mary. This is neither. (Maybe I'm falling for TSTBS but I think this is something different.)
* petapan unvotes and is quickly followed by DV in the unvote train. Knowing peta was town paints the DV unvote differently... DV unvotes with an empty post, then comes back later to clarify the unvote. Guilty conscience?

There's just so little here. I'm super glad we got a scumbag with the D1 vote but at the same time, the slot has so little there behind it.

If I'm going to erase all my reads and start over today, I think I'm still fully on board with xofelf as town here. The one thing I feel like I CAN glean from the RCE posts is how weird it would be for scum!xof to choose to engage him in that way. If I'm looking for a performative buddy who engaged in a turbo bus for town cred, it's DV. If I'm looking for the obligatory buddy that RCE ignored, it's one of Ari/Bulge/Ydrasse. That would by default put the town bloc I want today to be me/xofelf/Adorable.

@Adorable: With Creature flipping town, what does this do to your read on xof?
@xofelf: What's your current read on DeasVail?
@DV: Apologies if you've explained this before, but what was it about RCE's first half a dozen posts that made you commit so hard to the scumread?

[xRECKONERx]

I mean I see why we'd want to mass claim today over yesterday, with a PR dead and it being unlikely we accidentally force another to reveal since it's probably just me and the mason at this point. but why today over tomorrow? massclaiming today tells scum exactly who to kill (me, because they know who I'll protect) whereas withholding that information allows for more possible outcomes, maybe to our benefit.

I know you have to say this to hold your perspective but I'm taking your claim with an extremely large grain of salt right now. Feel free to push me for this, IDGAF. The Psych flip puts your claim under extreme scrutiny, and you're completely unproven.

If you're fakeclaiming scum, going to massclaim here just means you get the other town PRs out in the open to line up the kills.

Actually wait -- okay, let's assume you ARE town and telling the truth about your role. What makes you think the entire town setup is just two masons, a JOAT, and a doctor?

[The Bulge]

I'm advocating to not massclaim today, to be clear.

obviously the longer I'm alive the less I can blame someone for being suspicious of my claim. I get it. but why go with such a bizarre ass claim that looks so unlikely next to that flip? actually, forget how mine and hectic's roles look next to each other, where do I even come up with that shit??? You know from my crumbs that my claim is either legit, or a fakeclaim planned since pre-game. please explain to me what kind of galaxy brain plotting it would take to come up with such a claim, and where the hell I'm going with it.

nothing in particular makes me think that's the setup, but it doesn't sound unreasonable, does it?

[xRECKONERx]

I'm advocating to not massclaim today, to be clear.

obviously the longer I'm alive the less I can blame someone for being suspicious of my claim. I get it. but why go with such a bizarre ass claim that looks so unlikely next to that flip? actually, forget how mine and hectic's roles look next to each other, where do I even come up with that shit??? You know from my crumbs that my claim is either legit, or a fakeclaim planned since pre-game. please explain to me what kind of galaxy brain plotting it would take to come up with such a claim, and where the hell I'm going with it.

nothing in particular makes me think that's the setup, but it doesn't sound unreasonable, does it?

Uhh I mean scum knew the setup from the start?

Like if you're scum then yes you probably DID kill peta because you thought he was breadcrumbing JOAT and you whiffed so when you had to claim you claimed something you knew wouldn't get CC'd by the JOAT but could use the crumb to make you look townier?

I don't think that's really "galaxy brain plotting" required to pull that off? It's very reactionary and easy IMO

As for the setup, that looks hella low power to me but I haven't reviewed or made a normal setup in like five years or something. Maybe my perception of balance/power is off but I feel like one scum PR needs more than what you've claimed + masons + what looked to be a mostly weak JOAT. I guess I'm not super interested in pursuing this line of dialogue actually, nevermind.