TM 2021: A normal roguelike

[DeasVail]

like yeah cool i get to reset on a wrong read earlier but... also if xof got ran up and claimed then at least we would’ve gotten something out of them getting wagoned and seeing who was going where/with it, that’s what’s the irritating me about this whole thing

Did you get much from the other wagons in town that have happened in this game?

*on town

[xRECKONERx]

DV, the end result of this is you going "It's scummy, I think you faked your team's contributions" and me going "...no I didn't they just lost interest" and that's it. There's no further conversation to be had. That's why it's really weird.

[DeasVail]

Why does that matter though? Should I be making sure that if I have a reason for suspecting someone, that it’s only one that they can respond to? Should I not share my thoughts unless there is productive conversation with the suspected person to be had from it?

I’m not sure what your point is. I’m not sharing my thoughts for your benefit, but rather discussion of where I’m at for the sake of sorting your slot with the other people here.

[Isis]

Votecount 4.4

• Aristophanes (He/Him)
  (1) - Ydrasse
  
• Ydrasse
  (She/Her)
  (1) - Aristophanes
  
• xofelf (They/Them)
  (0)
  
• DeasVail (He/Him)
  (0)
  
• The
  Bulge (Any/Any)
  (0)
  
• Adorable (She/Her)
  (0)
  
• xRECKONERx (He/Him)
  (0)

Not Voting (5): xofelf, DeasVail, The Bulge, Adorable, xRECKONERx
With 7 alive, it takes 4 votes to make a decision.
(expired on 2021-03-14 02:00:00)

---

Spoiler: implosion's mech makes short work of a wasp enemy

[The Bulge]

I'm wondering if I should bother finishing my readthrough or if I should just focus potential pairings in iso and try to eliminate some possibilities.

orrrr I just go with my gut and say we elim Ari/Ydrasse/DV any order and win the game?

[xRECKONERx]

I'm wondering if I should bother finishing my readthrough or if I should just focus potential pairings in iso and try to eliminate some possibilities.

orrrr I just go with my gut and say we elim Ari/Ydrasse/DV any order and win the game?

I mean obviously this is my plan lmao
You're clear, xof's clear, I know I'm town
That literally just leaves that path to victory

The biggest thing that has cooled me on Ari is that his comments about me being set up as the dumbass town that votes him in LXLO have been lingering on the edge of my mind ever since he said it
If Ari is town what that would imply is that I've been either lightly encouraged by scum to keep up my read on Ari OR scum have specifically left the me vs Ari battle for later and have steered wagons in other directions
I should probably reread the game with that in mind and try to find evidence but honestly the fact we have two eliminations left and have a pool of three with two scum in it is good enough for me to just kinda cruise control it

[xRECKONERx]

I actually still find Ydrasses pointing out of Ari's TMI really compelling. I also have been trying to reason out the NKs and haven't found much, because people I'm suspicious of have been dying every night, which is fine by me to an extent, but I have an evolving theory on the NKs that I need to post in full once I'm not fighting with my phone keyboard

Okay yeah so about this, it's not as interesting as I thought. I thought maybe scum were killing people to remove resistance to getting preferred mislims because I saw Ari/DV coming after Ydrasse

the day after

Hectic, Ydrasse's biggest defender, got offed

But petapan wasn't a Sirius defender, and Datisi wasn't a Creature-defender (if anything Datisi was in support of a Creature wagon) so that theory doesn't really hold water

[Adorable]

Hectic calls me Puff and I remember on day 3 he said that I am definitely not consensus poe and he didn't want the players to touch me and then the next day comes with Hectic dead, Ari takes the lead asking for a mass claim and says I may be the best elim for today with flimsy reasoning. I start to wonder if the Hectic kill points to Ari scum.

[xofelf]

What. I know I'm loopy from pain, but the fuck kind of reachy logic is that? Who would actually do that? That sounds like an attempt at galaxy-brained play while being the smallest brain play imaginable.

[DeasVail]

I'm wondering if I should bother finishing my readthrough or if I should just focus potential pairings in iso and try to eliminate some possibilities.

orrrr I just go with my gut and say we elim Ari/Ydrasse/DV any order and win the game?

Why is Reck town?

[DeasVail]

I actually still find Ydrasses pointing out of Ari's TMI really compelling. I also have been trying to reason out the NKs and haven't found much, because people I'm suspicious of have been dying every night, which is fine by me to an extent, but I have an evolving theory on the NKs that I need to post in full once I'm not fighting with my phone keyboard

Okay yeah so about this, it's not as interesting as I thought. I thought maybe scum were killing people to remove resistance to getting preferred mislims because I saw Ari/DV coming after Ydrasse

the day after

Hectic, Ydrasse's biggest defender, got offed

But petapan wasn't a Sirius defender, and Datisi wasn't a Creature-defender (if anything Datisi was in support of a Creature wagon) so that theory doesn't really hold water

I think one also has to consider that Hectic had me and Adorable as townreads above Ydrasse so that doesn't really leave many other elim options

[DeasVail]

I mean obviously this is my plan lmao
You're clear, xof's clear, I know I'm town
That literally just leaves that path to victory

How strong are you on Adorable-town?

[xRECKONERx]

I mean I guess I could be convinced? I just think Adorable has played in such a way that wouldn't make sense having a buddy to say things like, hey, don't say that, or hey, maybe reply in this other way.

I don't like how much of this game is "too scummy to be scum".

Honestly Adorable just kind of evaporated from me as a scum candidate and dropped off my radar at some point. Huh.

[Ydrasse]

like yeah cool i get to reset on a wrong read earlier but... also if xof got ran up and claimed then at least we would’ve gotten something out of them getting wagoned and seeing who was going where/with it, that’s what’s the irritating me about this whole thing

Did you get much from the other wagons in town that have happened in this game?

*on town

i skimmed the vcs last night but admittedly i wasn’t feeling it when i did so i ended up focusing on ari and saw that... he doesn’t vote too much which was like. ok.

i’m taking a peek now at the wagons but i don’t have a lot of time so this is going to be quickshot, what i consider objectively the “”worst”” votes without any posting context is just adorable, but ive consistently thought the way shes played doesn’t have agenda to it at all. at this point though, i’ll read her for content but meh, don’t think it’ll sway me

i’ll fact check her votes to her reads later but it’s hard for me to see her as scum

[Aristophanes]

I'm to the point that I'm not sure what to do here.

Bulge and xof are off the table entirely. I'm obviously not including myself in the scumpool.

Out of DV, Reck, Ydrasse, and Adorable, it seems so obvious to me.
Reck was town enough I thought he was the Mason, as did just about everyone here. I know he's eligible for scum, but that's not something I ever see here.
DV could be scum I guess, but he's not even someone we should consider for today because he has been very towny throughout the game with his thoughts, input, questioning, etc.
Ydrasse has been scummy all game. Countless times I've had scumreads on her and I can find multiple examples of her being scumread by my team as well.
Adorable was kind of PoE scum but the reactions this phase are really making me confident I'm right here.

Hectic calls me Puff and I remember on day 3 he said that I am definitely not consensus poe and he didn't want the players to touch me and then the next day comes with Hectic dead, Ari takes the lead asking for a mass claim and says I may be the best elim for today with flimsy reasoning. I start to wonder if the Hectic kill points to Ari scum.

This post wigs me out some. I know Adorable isn't the premier grammar user and I try to take this into account when understanding them and the meaning behind her posts. But reading this it feels like she's literally setting up a narrative of events that did not take place. "I start to wonder" is the part that gives me heebie jeebies wrt this post because like, it's imposing a thought onto you rather than owning it herself. I'm probably reading way too much into it but it really weirds me out.

I'm wondering if I should bother finishing my readthrough or if I should just focus potential pairings in iso and try to eliminate some possibilities.

orrrr I just go with my gut and say we elim Ari/Ydrasse/DV any order and win the game?

Please look at team pairings and likelihood here.
What is the team, if 2/3 of these are in fact scum? DV/Ari? DV/Ydrasse? Ari/Ydrasse?
If we elim one of these and get scum, are there any anti-associatives?
Like, I don't think Ari/Ydrasse would be viable in any context (or Ari/Reck, DV/Reck for the record) so I would love to know the reasoning behind this.

DV, Reck, please reconsider Adorable or express why they are town here. Discounting them as scum could cost us the game.

Re: TMI on thinking Ydrasse had claimed VT
I wasn't the only one who thought this. Our conftown also thought this. So like, call it TMI if you want but if that's the best you have as an argument we're losing me based on something extremely silly and now is not the time to for that!

Yeah uh Ydrasse, I don't follow your reasoning for this either. You were in danger of elimination a few times, I actually thought you had claimed already too. I forgot that pushes melted off of you where you hadn't before either. I don't think this is a slip by Ari, but it sure sounds a little like desperation from you to suddenly jump all over that fact.

BUT that being said, I did look through your ISO just to see if maybe you had said something, and there was a post early on when you switched to this where in what looks to be a typo, could actually be a crumb about being vt instead because it was after Hectic said he needed something from you to sort you, and it's your post responding. This could also just be purely coincidental and actual typo.

i'm saying that ari already knows what i am going to claim and jumped the gun assuming it bc in his head he already knows me being vt as true, and was projecting that onto everyone else; it's not desperate bc like, in what world do i jump to that of all things instead of just... you know... pointing out the stuff from ari i've already done, on top of the fact that he outted the mason, on top of the fact he's lining up his solve now btwn me and adorable which like, wow, i get flipped today, he was wrong, and then tomorrow bulge dies and he gives it another go on adorable and then the game's over

i have not once crumbed in this setup nor would i ever want to given that scum knows exactly what's going on

Ydrasse, if you would, what is the most likely scumteam that contains me? Like I said to Bulge, we're at the point of the game where associative reads and scumteam reads are highly important to getting this right. I know you said here:

also wrt confidence: i’m confident at this point on ari being scum and i’m not going to back down on that at this point, i’ve gotten bit too many times when i feel sure on a read and then start speculating and wondering, there are too many things atp for me to ignore from him that are scummy. what i AM unsure about is who he’s partnered with but right now i’m just... not thinking about that and taking it one step at a time because i know he’s scum and that’s the most important thing to deal w fmpov

that you are not sure who I'm scum with and are not worried about that atm. But you should be!

Also, Ydrasse, do you really see me chaining Mislims on you and Adorable? Is that an actual worldview you hold?? Because uh, I hate to break it to you, but I don't see any world where I am not Powerlimmed tomorrow if you are town. The only way I get to chain these lims is if you are scum, and if that's the case we get 2 more stabs at this.

After the mass claim this has made me reevaluate. I have been suspicious of Ari today and DV also made some good points saying he was wondering if it is Ydrasse/Reckoner and I never even thought about this. I don't like how Ari says it's me/Ydrasse because that team makes no sense. It's like as if Ari is saying scum Ydrasse defended scum Adorable on day 1 and continues to defend her on day 1, scum Ydrasse votes scum beeboy and refuses to defend scum beeboy.

Adorable, could you break this down for me a bit more?
What is the likelihood of an Ydrasse/Reck team? Do you townread DV strongly enough to take his words into account wholly like that or are you also doing independent thought about it?
Could you also go a bit past D1 with the Adorable/Ydrasse anti-assoviatives? Like, the beeboy/Asorable dichotomy wrt reactions on D1 is interesting, but is there more to it? If not, what other reads do the defending (or not) of different players give you?

[DeasVail]

Ari I would be prepared to elim Ydrasse today I think

[Adorable]

@Aristophanes To answer your question DV wondered if the team is Ydrasse/Reckoner and now that I think on it more, Reckoner says he didn't like Ydrasse fluffing and even though he didn't like her fluff and when she got some votes on her on day 2 Reckoner still kept his vote on you. DV has been my town read since day 1 and after the mass claim I see that the vt claims are the poe to the point when I don't even know who the scum are within the vt claims because I have been town reading them from earlier which means I have been wrongly town reading scum who are somewhere hidden in the vt claims.

I'm not able to understand on what you are saying on the Adorable/Ydrasse anti-associatives and I'm guessing you meant about me saying that the team makes no sense and you wanted to know if there is another reason why that team makes no sense. I pretty much said earlier why the team makes no sense and there is nothing more to it. Scum should never defend their scum buddy because when one of them flips scum then that will make the other scum look bad and will get outed the next day.

[Adorable]

After the mass claim this has made me reevaluate. I have been suspicious of Ari today and DV also made some good points saying he was wondering if it is Ydrasse/Reckoner and I never even thought about this. I don't like how Ari says it's me/Ydrasse because that team makes no sense. It's like as if Ari is saying scum Ydrasse defended scum Adorable on day 1 and continues to defend her on day 1, scum Ydrasse votes scum beeboy and refuses to defend scum beeboy.

I'm also going to quote this too which also makes the beeboy/Ydrasse/Adorable team being weird and makes no sense because Ydrasse defended me on day 1 and did not defend beeboy.

[xRECKONERx]

@Aristophanes To answer your question DV wondered if the team is Ydrasse/Reckoner and now that I think on it more, Reckoner says he didn't like Ydrasse fluffing and even though he didn't like her fluff and when she got some votes on her on day 2 Reckoner still kept his vote on you. DV has been my town read since day 1 and after the mass claim I see that the vt claims are the poe to the point when I don't even know who the scum are within the vt claims because I have been town reading them from earlier which means I have been wrongly town reading scum who are somewhere hidden in the vt claims.

I'm not able to understand on what you are saying on the Adorable/Ydrasse anti-associatives and I'm guessing you meant about me saying that the team makes no sense and you wanted to know if there is another reason why that team makes no sense. I pretty much said earlier why the team makes no sense and there is nothing more to it. Scum should never defend their scum buddy because when one of them flips scum then that will make the other scum look bad and will get outed the next day.

I mean I publicly stated if I couldn't get Ari I was going to go with Ydrasse and warned people if she ever hit L-1 I was going to hammer?

Anyway, unless I'm wrong about Adorable, this seems pretty simple to just run down the list and nail two scum. I don't care who we start with.

VOTE: Ydrasse

Let's get the ball moving. Bulge. xof. You guys are town and need to be town leaders here so this game doesn't stagnate in its own musty soup for too long.

[Aristophanes]

Ari I would be prepared to elim Ydrasse today I think

Could you put dkwn a vote then?

Bulge, Ydrasse, and xof are all at or past prod range and we habe less than 2 days left in the phase. I really hope we don't need replacements at this point and a no elim looming makes me nervous.

[Aristophanes]

@Aristophanes To answer your question DV wondered if the team is Ydrasse/Reckoner and now that I think on it more, Reckoner says he didn't like Ydrasse fluffing and even though he didn't like her fluff and when she got some votes on her on day 2 Reckoner still kept his vote on you. DV has been my town read since day 1 and after the mass claim I see that the vt claims are the poe to the point when I don't even know who the scum are within the vt claims because I have been town reading them from earlier which means I have been wrongly town reading scum who are somewhere hidden in the vt claims.

That's an interesting point, but Reck was also on me at that point really hard iirc so that probably had a big effect on not changing votes.

Re: PoE of VT Scum
I mean, did you have a scumteam of {xof, bulge} exactly before the massclaim? If not, you must have had scumreads in the vts. This claim of bamboozlement because of wrongly reading people feels like an easy way to not commit to anything and an out where you can go "oops, that was town. I told you I don't know who scum is" if me mislim.

Also I note that you aren't really defending Ydrasse, just defending the lack of team likeliness berween you two, which leads into the other quote.

I'm not able to understand on what you are saying on the Adorable/Ydrasse anti-associatives and I'm guessing you meant about me saying that the team makes no sense and you wanted to know if there is another reason why that team makes no sense. I pretty much said earlier why the team makes no sense and there is nothing more to it. Scum should never defend their scum buddy because when one of them flips scum then that will make the other scum look bad and will get outed the next day.

After the mass claim this has made me reevaluate. I have been suspicious of Ari today and DV also made some good points saying he was wondering if it is Ydrasse/Reckoner and I never even thought about this. I don't like how Ari says it's me/Ydrasse because that team makes no sense. It's like as if Ari is saying scum Ydrasse defended scum Adorable on day 1 and continues to defend her on day 1, scum Ydrasse votes scum beeboy and refuses to defend scum beeboy.

I'm also going to quote this too which also makes the beeboy/Ydrasse/Adorable team being weird and makes no sense because Ydrasse defended me on day 1 and did not defend beeboy.

Adorable, I quoted that post to ask the question. You are correct on what I meant by anti-associatives btw. I was hoping there was more to it.

Interestingly, I think you do believe the "never defend a scumbuddy" mantra. That does not mean other players do, however.

I don't think a refusal to vote someone D1 means you cannot be scumbuddies and I think that is especially true if there is already a scum member that is being/must be bussed. Drop one, defend the other. It's really standard mafia play. Do I do not buy the D1 associative tells being the be all end all of it and will be considering your scum equity when we get this red flip today.


I think this post became a disjointed mess. I should really wake up before typing lol

[The Bulge]

ugh i hate this

alright today after work. sorry I've all but forgotten about this all week. I think at this point im almost definitely not going to finish reading, but I need to figure out where I want to go so this game stops being a big foggy mess to think about.

reck what are your current thoughts on the whole "yeet ari before xylo" thing from the other day?

ari, I'd like to hear why you think Ari/Ydrasse is an impossible team fmpov? is it just the events of this day phase?

[DeasVail]

VOTE: Ydrasse

[xRECKONERx]

reck what are your current thoughts on the whole "yeet ari before xylo" thing from the other day?

i mean basically what i said a few posts ago

The biggest thing that has cooled me on Ari is that his comments about me being set up as the dumbass town that votes him in LXLO have been lingering on the edge of my mind ever since he said it
If Ari is town what that would imply is that I've been either lightly encouraged by scum to keep up my read on Ari OR scum have specifically left the me vs Ari battle for later and have steered wagons in other directions
I should probably reread the game with that in mind and try to find evidence but honestly the fact we have two eliminations left and have a pool of three with two scum in it is good enough for me to just kinda cruise control it

[xRECKONERx]

ari, I'd like to hear why you think Ari/Ydrasse is an impossible team fmpov? is it just the events of this day phase?

are you asking ari why he's not scum with ydrasse or is this a typo