Mini Normal 2192 - Korean Pop Artists - Mafia Wins

[Rannygazoo]

This guy is tentatively testing the water for my mislim, I can feel it. I really can't see this behavior coming from Town.

I could say the EXACT same thing about you. We're both being paranoid in the same way.

[Rannygazoo]

If you're so confident in your Elements SR then why tf do you keep shading me? That's the part I don't get.

Because I don’t ACTUALLY know everyone’s alignment. I just do the best I can.

What you call “shading” I call “due diligence”. You’re just being hypersensitive about it for some reason.

You go home and think about what you did.

[Rannygazoo]

I was talking to Datisi, not you.

[Rannygazoo]

It’s genuine. You don’t have to like it.

FWIW I concede the point. You can want to sheep Datisi and still criticize Daisy for not treating herself as conftown. I just didn’t expect you to do that this game, but I’ve seen copious meta examples now.

[Rannygazoo]

If you're so confident in your Elements SR then why tf do you keep shading me? That's the part I don't get.

Because I don’t ACTUALLY know everyone’s alignment. I just do the best I can.

What you call “shading” I call “due diligence”. You’re just being hypersensitive about it for some reason.

You go home and think about what you did.

Maybe it's because an Elements green flip at this juncture would mean victory for scum!ranny?

Or at least it would have done. I'm not sure exactly where NPOM

I had LITERALLY the same concern about scum!Luca. Datisi basically said he would give you the victory. NPOM, I’m not so sure what he would do.

It’s hilarious how you’re scumreading me for thinking the same as you.

[Rannygazoo]

Yeah, so? I was thinking Elements then Luca wins. That’s not scum-indicative. Datisi had a similar plan, with different slots.

But I want to end this today and I think we can. And honestly (I feel like I’m repeating myself), if it got to ELo with me, I would do my due diligence again instead of just relying on prior analysis.

[Rannygazoo]

I want to say Luca is town but I need to go back and look at my past games before I can articulate why.

I think NPOM is town from meta and Datisi is town from tracker. That just leaves El, who I really think fits as last scum.

Pedit: I’ve had way more posting than elements today, so it’s not quite a fair comparison. I’ll give it one more post before logging off.

[Rannygazoo]

Wait how does El have the third most posts? I feel like he’s barely said anything.

I can’t do this now. I’ll have to look at it later.

[Rannygazoo]

Fourth most*

[Rannygazoo]

sigh, i reskimmed d2 again and like i still think it's ranny.

jumped on sau wagon when it already gained a lot of traction, stayed there until fire repped in, lolunvoted, then hammered.

It’s clear that you *want* it to be me, but it’s not me. How is this scum-indicative?

I was never a fan of Saudade and I was willing to vote him, but there was never a *good* reason. I jumped on the wagon day 2 with the others to make something happen. And guess what? Nothing happened to convince any one to do anything different. Why did scum fail so hard to protect their own?

I unvoted because I didn’t want the day to end while dragging along an inactive slot (I think I behaved really decently around Zuko’s slot,

tired of defending this

), but again, *nothing changed*, so Saudade it was.

If you remember an actual reason for building wagons on either Saudade or FB, please tell me, because I missed it.

El is going to say it’s me because he needs to convince you of that to make it to ELo.

Luca is going to say it’s me because he’s paranoid of me for the same reasons I’m paranoid of him.

Everyone’s counting on you to do better.

[Rannygazoo]

Look at the iso of known scum + El together.

El enters page 1 and posts practically alone. Saudade enters page 20. Practically nothing from Zuko.

El and Saudade post together for some time, but maybe El was posting fluff or not paying attention, because around post 1200, he hits us with “I feel like I’ve been neglecting this game, what did I miss?”

Next day, FB posts alone. Practically no overlap from El until the hammer. And then there was one.

I think this explains why there was so little resistance to the Saudade and FB wagons. Scum didn’t have coordination together.

[Rannygazoo]

It’s clear that you *want* it to be me, but it’s not me. How is this scum-indicative?

it's scum-indicative because it shows the most informed mindset around saudade. ele voted sau earlier, and unvoted him to wagon me on what was probably the shittiest counterwagon in existence. npom openly pushed for cook early. like, your play looks the most like scum who's aware their buddy is getting run up, doesn't wanna bus, can't defend, and doesn't want the wagon to go through without them. do you see my logic?

What you call informed I call conscientious. I hate that I’m being punished for wanting activity from all the slots.

[Rannygazoo]

actually no, last TWO times i was conftown in lylo-1 ahahaha oh boy

Sorry to break your streak?

[Rannygazoo]

I think this explains why there was so little resistance to the Saudade and FB wagons. Scum didn’t have coordination together.

I haven’t seen ANYONE give an alternate theory for this, other than calling it “hard-bussing”, which could implicate anyone.

[Rannygazoo]

Will someone else please put El under a microscope like you’ve been doing to me?

[Rannygazoo]

It’s clear that you *want* it to be me, but it’s not me. How is this scum-indicative?

it's scum-indicative because it shows the most informed mindset around saudade. ele voted sau earlier, and unvoted him to wagon me on what was probably the shittiest counterwagon in existence. npom openly pushed for cook early. like, your play looks the most like scum who's aware their buddy is getting run up, doesn't wanna bus, can't defend, and doesn't want the wagon to go through without them. do you see my logic?

How does this look worse to you than Element’s day 2 play? Because I unvoted to stall, while Elements voted someone else instead of just unvoting?

[Rannygazoo]

So I look bad because my votes were better? Baffling.

[Rannygazoo]

Look at El’s last 10 or so posts after voting you.

I've sort of neglected this game for a bit, what have I missed?

No attempt to explain or build the wagon or divert Sau’s wagon or anything.

I've changed my mind again

We don't yeet any of {NPOM, Salsa, ranny} today
My preferred yeets would be {Cook, Daisy, Luca, Deathnote, Datisi}
but I have the annoying feeling Daisy is going to flip town despite her being scummy. Correct me if I'm wrong but I don't think anyone has defended her?

I'd say I'm at a 7/10 unsureness level with this game as a whole. I don't have any particularly strong scum reads and my poe is too large

He wants to keep feuding with Daisy but is running out of reasons. “I want to vote this person but I don’t think they’re scum” is a scumtell, no?

ooo, in that case I'd be in favour of a saudade elim over a Daisy one
VOTE: saudade

(After Luca tells him that Sau defended Daisy) El see that it’s over for Saudade, and is able to center it around Daisy nonetheless.

[Rannygazoo]

Sorry El!

[Rannygazoo]

@Datisi if you vote me, what’s your plan for ELo?

[Rannygazoo]

I’m exhausted with this game and I’m not self-hammering because I want town to have the information to win eventually.

[Rannygazoo]

The moment of brilliance guy made me look bad?

[Rannygazoo]

i mean my problem is that sau had like no strong associates either way w ranny while he did with everyone else alive

Sau may have insulted El but he never scumread El. Can you acknowledge this point, for my sanity?

[Rannygazoo]

He didn’t need to insult me because the mods gave me enough of a beating.

[Rannygazoo]

tbh i don't give a fuck about who was more pro town than whom rn

like it's so easy to be pro town when you know who scum is, that's why towns usually shit the bed if they hit scum d1, it happens bc scum positions around the yeet

they can do that bc they know

i'm asking whose play looks *informed* right now

and looking at d2, for me it's ranny? like idk

So why does Luca have you pocketed, if not for being pro-town?

[Rannygazoo]

Look, I’m biased for being in the middle of it, but the push on Zuko was suspicious with zero knowledge. “You want to wagon this inactive slot? How about this OTHER slot that’s only slightly different?” I don’t think it would have succeeded even if I didn’t hold it back.

I know Luca’s going to come back and say I’m shading him, but whatever, I don’t think the strength of your TR on him is justified.

[Rannygazoo]

At this point I’m willing to stake the game on NPOM being town, because it would be easy for him to hammer me and then miselim El for the win.

Same goes for Datisi, of course.

[Rannygazoo]

Also town!ranny trying to help ELo if I get miselimmed

[Rannygazoo]

Did Salsa ever crumb who she jailkept?

[Rannygazoo]

when in doubt

sheep luca blight

VOTE: zuko

Wise words indeed.

Sheep your 55% confidence?

Can you please just do better

[Rannygazoo]

Datisi, I think your interpretation of day 1 is motivated by not wanting to change your reads. What do you think? I think you're going to lose the game for town. The solve that you want to cling to is the opposite of mine.

If you hammer me, would you be more willing to listen to everything I said after I flip town?

Do you see the logic in 2162 clearing NPOM?

Why do you still put NPOM in your solve even though you astutely figured out that FB likely copped NPOM?

[Rannygazoo]

sigh. the urge to just hammer the fuck out of that and hope it's over is immense. still think it's ranny > npom btw. npom's vague dropping of "ranny is scummy for x" while still being adamant in ele being scum makes me think he wants me to hammer ranny, but also wants to make sure we all know he wanted ele and then tomorrow he's gonna vote ele and say how he's town bc he didn't vote ranny while ele did.

Boy oh boy guess what Luca is going to do tomorrow

Anyway, I'll leave it up to Datisi from here. I've said what I needed to say, but I can clarify or expand on anything if need be.

If it were up to me I'd go for Ranny, but I'm probably only 55% v 45% sure on that one. I just hope the game ends today either way.

Meaningless CYA post if I ever saw one.

[Rannygazoo]

YES IM THROWING SHADE

[Rannygazoo]

because the "i hope we catch him in lylo" comment doesn't make sense if deathnote had a clear on npom via tracking fire to him.

I think DN was considering the possibility that scum visited scum in order to throw off a tracker. While that would be an outstanding move, I think we can rule it out.

[Rannygazoo]

Datisi, this is so frustrating. You want to scumread me for things Saudade did. You want to scumread me for things scum did in your previous games. Can you just, like, stop scumreading me for things that are out of control?

If I'm using AtE, maybe it's because you're impervious to logic.

[Rannygazoo]

it's easy for scum!npom to hammer you. but here's the thing. if he's off your wagon, and i'm the one hammering you, final 3 gets so much easier for scum!him. if he hammers you here, he has to explain why he did that tomorrow, especially after arguing for scum!ele the whole day, which automatically makes him more likely to die. if he lets me do it, his hands are clean.

That's a valid point, but I think it would have been easy for scum!NPOM to just not talk himself into that corner of hammering me without a strong SR on me.

[Rannygazoo]

Do you think it's possible that scum might have just avoided engaging the cop claims during day play because they knew it would be suspicious down the line? I can't recall El, Zuko or Saudade interacting with shig. They didn't need really need to elim the cops, because they knew there was a high probability the claims were true, so it was a safe bet to make them the night kills. That's why they both died so soon. I think there was enough doubt from town around both claims that it was safe to bet protectives wouldn't be on them.

I mean, I've literally never rolled scum on this site, but that might be how I'd play it, starting with the Informed Datisi told us.

[Rannygazoo]

pedit: tbf, shiga was something else. and i feel like you're confbiasing here yourself, because i remember like 2 pages of shiga and sau going back and forth.

For sure, but I did compare their isos after posting that, and there interactions were mostly banter about weeb stuff.

[Rannygazoo]

NPOM, I love how you're brave enough to say the things I'm not.

[Rannygazoo]

and like, we know scum didn't just avoid interacting with the cop claims, because literally everyone alive voted for cook at some point after he seriousclaimed.

...actually, checking back, elements didn't. does that mean anything?

Probably not tbh? El voted Cook on 363 and then Cook seriousclaimed on 369. It don't think it means anything that El didn't unvote and re-vote Cook after that.

[Rannygazoo]

Same. I know I've stated I tr NPOM more than Luca, but if it came down to the three of us, I would have to ask why NPOM seemed eager for that in 2190

...but yeah, I'm more lilkely than Datisi to ever vote Luca.

[Rannygazoo]

Luca, I am NOT have the argument with you about SoS vs Zuko again. I will answer questions about it if literally anyone else has something to ask.

[Rannygazoo]

We haven’t heard from Elements in a while.

@El what do you think of the possibility that DeathNote tracked fire to visit NPOM?

[Rannygazoo]

Stop throwing shade then

Look, it’s like this.

I’m *pretty sure* the last scum is El.

I’m *very sure* that Datisi is town by mechanics and NPOM is town by play.

That means *if I’m right*, you must be town by POE.

*But* I’m not sure enough to self-hammer and trust you to get El on ELo. Even though that would make everyone’s lives easier. From my perspective, I am confirmed town and you are not. I think we win by voting El, but it’s close to the end and I have to consider all angles. And I’m going to say plainly what I think in case I’m the elim today and people need to look back at my play.

Even if that means shading you.

So you can just stop complaining about it.

[Rannygazoo]

Are you still trying to make out I'm suspicious for allowing Datisi to decide the elim?

I’m saying that you’re acting way out of line for someone only 55% sure. You just said that to CYA so when I flip town, you can be like “omigosh, I didn’t

knooooooooow!

”

So if that’s your opinion, tell me what the other 45% is, hm?

[Rannygazoo]

Luca, let’s have a civil discussion if you’re capable of that. Don’t cry “STOP SHADING MEEEEEEEEE!” every time I post something you disagree with.

[Rannygazoo]

“Not genuine” mean “I don’t like it” in Luca speak. Confbias much?

What did I do that’s not genuine? You don’t think you’re genuinely getting on my nerves, my dude?

[Rannygazoo]

Fine, what is the other 25%? If it’s changed by now, what is the remainder?

[Rannygazoo]

Elements isn’t posting.

[Rannygazoo]

So what do you think Datisi is getting wrong?

[Rannygazoo]

I mean Datisi’s solve is eliminating me and NPOM. Why is yours different?

[Rannygazoo]

Still waiting on my town points for meta diving NPOM

[Rannygazoo]

Elements isn’t posting.

Doesn't really matter. A lot of the things you've shaded me on have been based on stuff from previous days.

Well, no one is talking about El either? Except for me and Datisi when we were talking about previous days? I don’t know. I think you’re exaggerating when I you complain about me shading you. I don’t feel like I’ve given you more attention than you deserve.

[Rannygazoo]

Finished Phase 1 of my wiki.

Hey Datisi, I saw you were in the game where NPOM rolled scum. Do you have any m*ta insights to share?

NPOM just has one scum game on record, but he was more memey/less solvey in it.

[Rannygazoo]

I actually don't mind being shaded, but your points made no sense, and the fact you haven't followed up on them means you probably know that yourself.

It means I’m tired of rehashing the same old arguments. I’ve spoken with you about SoS vs Zuko before. I was trying to explain to Datisi how in my POV it doesn’t make you locktown, in the last thing you were complaining about.

[Rannygazoo]

So lets elim elements without datisi.

I don’t *like* that but it’s a possibility. The deadline isn’t soon. Let’s come to an agreement as town.

[Rannygazoo]

Finished Phase 1 of my wiki.

Hey Datisi, I saw you were in the game where NPOM rolled scum. Do you have any m*ta insights to share?

NPOM just has one scum game on record, but he was more memey/less solvey in it.

So what was I supposed to give a Town point for exactly?

Nothing really, but I thought you might want to be consistent. I don’t understand why you want to TR NPOM for meta-diving you. Are you just flattered he would do that to you?

[Rannygazoo]

I actually don't mind being shaded, but your points made no sense, and the fact you haven't followed up on them means you probably know that yourself.

It means I’m tired of rehashing the same old arguments. I’ve spoken with you about SoS vs Zuko before. I was trying to explain to Datisi how in my POV it doesn’t make you locktown, in the last thing you were complaining about.

If you're Town then I'm not locktown to you because if it's not Elements it must be me, right? That's fair enough. Why not just be honest about that?

Saying I was suspicious for voting Zuko over SoS D1 is complete and utter

BS

and I'll call it out as such each and every time.

I actually don't mind being shaded, but your points made no sense, and the fact you haven't followed up on them means you probably know that yourself.

It means I’m tired of rehashing the same old arguments. I’ve spoken with you about SoS vs Zuko before. I was trying to explain to Datisi how in my POV it doesn’t make you locktown, in the last thing you were complaining about.

If you're Town then I'm not locktown to you because if it's not Elements it must be me, right? That's fair enough. Why not just be honest about that?

Saying I was suspicious for voting Zuko over SoS D1 is complete and utter

BS

and I'll call it out as such each and every time.

Ok dude, point out the last time I said it was

suspicious

and not just NAI.

Don’t point me to 2159, because it said it *was suspicious with zero knowledge*. Past tense. Go back further than that.

[Rannygazoo]

It seemed scummy to me because he was testing the water tentatively, just as he has been towards me today.

I think you’re implying that I’m trying to see who is easy to elim, but I am not doing that. I’m trying to find the truth about who is scum and who isn’t. But thanks for the tip, I’ll add that to my toolbox if I ever roll scum here. (I’ll be taking a break after this game, though.)

[Rannygazoo]

I feel as though I've made solid arguments. If I need to I'll take the time to consolidate it into one post later.

If you’re town: how sad, putting in all that effort just to be wrong.

If you’re scum: go get ‘em, pal!

[Rannygazoo]

I feel as though I've made solid arguments. If I need to I'll take the time to consolidate it into one post later.

If you’re town: how sad, putting in all that effort just to be wrong.

If you’re scum: go get ‘em, pal!

Your attempts at emotional manipulation aren't going to make me change my mind.

Yeah, we’re past that. I’m just having fun at this point.

But if you’re sincere with the post you’re making and you put aside your confirmation bias, you might change your own mind.

[Rannygazoo]

Man, if were scum I don’t even know who I would night kill. Datisi obviously has the most town cred, but I might kill you so I don’t have to go through this again tomorrow. If YOU’RE scum, you might want to keep Datisi around, but that looks suspicious. If you’re not scum and we don’t find them today, they can use that against you.

Wish I could do something to ease your fears. You’re barking up the wrong tree.

[Rannygazoo]

Yeah, I’ve said that too, but Luca used his meta to show that it’s Just A Thing That He Does

[Rannygazoo]

Ok, I’m out VOTE: Rannygazoo

[Rannygazoo]

This is unproductive and not very fun. Datisi, maybe don’t try to manipulate town from beyond the grave like that. Good luck tomorrow.

[Rannygazoo]

Try just “sorry”.

[Rannygazoo]

I’m not mad. You still have to opposite solve of me and it’s clear you’re never going to listen so I’m not sticking around either.

[Rannygazoo]

incidentally i'm more and more sure that luca is town here. and last time i was in a "confotwn in lylo-1" situation (and there was one scum left), i was dead sure on a player being town, but i managed to fuck up the gamestate enough that after i got killed, despite me repeatedly saying that that player was town, they got executed in mylo and we lost. which is why i have zero interest in creating an environment where luca is the likely execution tomorrow. so basically i'm never hanging elements today, and unless we're both alive tomorrow, i'm not interested in thinking about scum!luca. cheers.

This specifically is the wrong way to think about it. Do what you think is right now, and trust the players after you to sort out the rest. I’ve done something like this too where I didn’t go for the “best” elim because I knew I would die at night and I wanted to leave a plan for town, and it turns out I should have just done the obvious thing.

Anyway, I hope you’re able to let go of all those meta reasons for scum reading me, or at least not believe them so sincerely.

[Rannygazoo]

guilt tripping someone for being wrong isn't nice. nothing here is personal.

Hey, I’m not taking it personally and I’m not trying to guilt you. You just said “sorry if wrong, I guess”, which could be said a lot shorter.

Ok, I’m done spamming. Good luck tomorrow.

[Rannygazoo]

Luca did everything right here. Well done.