Mini Normal 2197: Noraaland ~Endgame~

[Aristophanes]

VOTE: My friend JohnnyFarrar

Because fuck you, that's why <3

[Aristophanes]

I am so going to get a kick for that

[Aristophanes]

Oh, good catch Italiano. E-1 this early is a bit much.

I agree there is likely scum there, will take a look in a bit. Any thoughts on who looks like a culprit there?

[Aristophanes]

Si ce I've been asked a bunch now...Italiano corrected the mod VC which listed MurderCat at E-1 after MurderCat said they were at E-2 and got another vote. I was glad Italiano caught that error as E-1 seemed premature and a little close for comfort to me since lolhammers are always a possibility and early ones are hard to read.

Italiano also said there was definite scum on MurderCat so I asked wh ok they suspected lol

I know you have since moved your vote, Mom (is there a better nickname for you? Iunno if I like calling you mom ) but I am curious what made it more serious after I made 42.

[Aristophanes]

Oh, good catch Italiano. E-1 this early is a bit much.

I agree there is likely scum there, will take a look in a bit. Any thoughts on who looks like a culprit there?

Bad post
I’d expect Italiano to think scum would be on there. Not so much you.
VOTE: Aristophanes

I looked back as promised and the only vote that stood out was surfing pikachu's.
I'm also interested in why it is not something you'd think I would agree with but it is something Italiano would. That gets a :thonk: from me for now

Also uh..

I suppose Mara.

I don't kboe if you remember my old main but I am Ms. Marangal

Ooooo! Hi Mara!
Yes yes that is a better idea

[Aristophanes]

I'm not really one for soulreads especially within the first couple of pages. I'll leave it be since it's apparently not uncommon for Infinity but I also think it is an easy place for scum to hide and/or pockets to be lined depending on usage.

I do like that Infinity developed the read to a gut read and that they are holding it despite liking some of what Murder is doing, like the Q about Titus.

I'm not as big a fan of the omgus feel from Murder towards him.

42 pinged me at first, I think it's just ari's writing style

Literally, I get this a lot XD

And like, I have for years so *shrugs* whatcha gunna do I guess!

[Aristophanes]

So imma just snipe this and then go to sleep and y'all can have a VC tomorrow morning if I wake up early enough but OMG GUYS IN PERSON SCHOOL TOMORROW CAN YOU BELIEVE IT?!
NORAA WONT BE BORED AND ONLINE 24/7 ANYMORE OMG OMG OMG

YAYAYAYAYAY have fun Noraa and STAY SAFE! =D

Don't forget about us now that your irl friends are back plz

[Aristophanes]

Hey guys, sorry I've been busy today!

I'll be on at some point to do more but I literally don't have the time atm.
Noraa why did your game have to happen when everyone is so busy? XD

[Aristophanes]

the ceiling?

Our first prodded tsunami: Aristophanes

OOPS!

Honestly, I've just been super busy. Imma try to do something here tn.
Sorry guys.

[Aristophanes]

Hey tsunamis, we are just past the halfway mark of day 1!
Hang tight and soon you can get some rest!

Can't I rest now?

[Aristophanes]

Sure.
VOTE: Infinity

Yesterday's lim was clearly a town flip, and no one even bothered to ask for a claim.

Surfer definitely looked bad off their first few posts but I think they became quite towny as they started to delve into things. I wish they had claimed prior to hammer tho.

I still need to reread a lot. Votes on Titus are odd as I thought they obvtowned in thieir first few posts.

Why infinity?

[Aristophanes]

Hi hi no prod plz I'll be here tn

[Aristophanes]

Ooooo Haschel is here! =D

I've got a lot to read but I'm here. Sorry about the delays.

[Aristophanes]

Okay let's get caught up again!

Spoiler: Pg. 17

Lol what are the chances someone pulled a board games here

I played a game where scum no killed so one of them could claim doc and ride that claim to victory. I think Gamma was there.

And nah, I voted Titus because they had the biggest "i know both these wagons are on townies" energy of anyone yesterday

I mean, this is a really big stretch. The likelihood of it is like, so slim imo. Then again, I'm brought back to your epic self-vote scum catch of me in what I believe was the first D2 game I played? So you do have a knack for this stuff
Not putting stock in it, just a trip down memory lane.

Ahh okay, that all makes sense.

It kinda sucks Statue didn’t think to tell us not to execute him. He just kinda gave up there.

Anyway, I’ve had some suspicion here

VOTE: In the beginning

I’ll be back in the afternoon. I didn’t forget about you Infinity.

I wish I'd gotten here before Italiano repped out.
I don't like the shading of Infinity with a vote on Beginning and nothing to back up either. Also the lamentation of Statue's EoD play feels a little like scum trying to look towny.

You have no idea how tempted I was to post when I was told not to xD

As for the night, GG Doc!

Samevibes as mentioned wrt Italiano.

No, vote Titus. Or disagree with me and tell me why. It's a short iso

Johnny, why the confidence here? You only mentioned their

...fuck I forget the word for it but their looking like they know too much by calling both wagons towny before the flip to get townpoints. Someone tell me the fucking mafia phrase because this is going to bug me all night otherwise.

TMI! The phrase is TMI! Thank Fuck JV used it later in the day because GAH this was bugging me!
Anyway, what I'm saying is that this feels like too little to go on for such a certain read. Can you elaborate on it?

Give her time, she's good at what she does and here's hoping she does it.

I forget why I quoted this. The backhanded defense of Titus is noted tho.

The babysitter claim was totally a meme too, not serious.

I actually like this. Flat out backing off of this claim is pro-town considering no deaths tn. Scum would probably continue to fake this claim.

Anyway, this is where I was going with the statue wagon

It was an utterly shit wagon being led by another one of my scum reads and, all the while, there were other slots who were look at with reasons that were just slightly better than the reasons used to wagon hoth Jhonny and Statue. There was very little resistance and I feel like scum played a big hand in getting it pushed

I know you probably already have, so disregard this if so, but could you point out the scum on the wagon and or who pushed it?

Scum like Titus

Again, please tell me where this confidence comes from, Johnny. I don't see it.

I pushed you to dissuade us and tell us why you thought they were town yesterday, mom. I don't really feel you have the right to chastise us about it now.

Yaaaaa this feels scummy tbh. Pushing the blame back onto Mara here is really icky.

I pushed you to dissuade us and tell us why you thought they were town yesterday, mom. I don't really feel you have the right to chastise us about it now.

Tis True! they did!

This pile-on is even worse.

Spoiler: Pg. 18

Ngl I lose all track of days

I don't like this series of posts from Flea either. It feels like they're backtracking in order to have an easy out now that Mara gave a good reason for not being there.

Can we hang Infinity now or...?

No one has never stated a town read on them, and no one seems willing to even look at their direction

Ah, Infinity is the aforementioned slot you are interested in as Scum on the wagon. Noted. I don't get why you aren't leading the charge here though. And a lack of townread does not a scum make. That's how people become LHF tho.

Sure.
VOTE: Infinity

Yesterday's lim was clearly a town flip, and no one even bothered to ask for a claim.

You were offwagon so this isn't the worst post, but why didn't you ask for a claim?

Also I just looked back to check if you were on the wagon and noticed Infinity also was not on that wagon.

@Mara, @Beginning, why does this wagon make Infinity scum? I am now lost again in why you suspect them here.

I wish they had claimed prior to hammer tho.

Johnny didn't claim, and he hit E-1 as well yesterday. Were you around to pressure a claim at the time? What's done is done, but today is already full of shoulda, could a, wouldas.

You still town read Titus?

Those were entirely different situations though. Surfer was giving up and should have claimed. Johnny was at E-1 without intent iirc and therefore had no direct pressure to do so. Noted on looking forwards rather than backwards however.

And yes, I think Titus is towning it up again and I know their play can be phenomenal so if this is Town!Titus I want to give them the time and space to do this

No, vote Titus. Or disagree with me and tell me why. It's a short iso

I disagree. I believe there are better slots to go for. I don’t know what you saw/felt from Titus, but I can’t say I felt the same thing you did regarding the Day 1 wagons.

I really don't like the reasoning of "there are better slots to go for." This is a very scummy mindset of "let's make the best elim" rather than "let's get scum" and while minute, gives me big red flags wrt Italiano.

I wish they had claimed prior to hammer tho.

Johnny didn't claim, and he hit E-1 as well yesterday. Were you around to pressure a claim at the time? What's done is done, but today is already full of shoulda, could a, wouldas.

You still town read Titus?

I am suspecting Statute was quickly run up as a way of saving Johnny.

Who do you suspect of doing this and why? If it's the case and Johnny is scum, what is the scumteam?

Anyway, this is where I was going with the statue wagon

It was an utterly shit wagon being led by another one of my scum reads and, all the while, there were other slots who were look at with reasons that were just slightly better than the reasons used to wagon hoth Jhonny and Statue. There was very little resistance and I feel like scum played a big hand in getting it pushed

You really couldn’t have posted this on Friday when Toogle asked you to elaborate? I know you said you are generally gone on the weekends, but I’m just a little annoyed by this.

ffs Italiano.
IRL happens. Maybe the wagon should have been stalled until they could answer. Like seriously, this is dumb and bad.

Lol what are the chances someone pulled a board games here

I played a game where scum no killed so one of them could claim doc and ride that claim to victory. I think Gamma was there.

And nah, I voted Titus because they had the biggest "i know both these wagons are on townies" energy of anyone yesterday

The tone in these two posts specifically feel TMI, but reading back the wording doesn't suggest that exactly so not sure what to make of it. I'll try to explain this the best I can, not the greatest at explaining these types of pings but this is almost definitely not a natural conclusion most people would fall to when no NK happens. Sure, if it's happened in a past game you could assume it may happen again but this feels like it's almost assuming it's happened.

I mean, I agree with the sentiment here but something also pings me about JV here in their "I'm not the best at explaining it" section.

Can we hang Infinity now or...?

No one has never stated a town read on them, and no one seems willing to even look at their direction

Why are you asking for permission instead of just voting

Goodposting. I agree wholeheartedly and believe I've said as much earlier in this post
The lack of commitment from Mara here is offputting.

I am suspecting Statute was quickly run up as a way of saving Johnny.

I don't like this take

VOTE: Titus

Is this because you townread Johnny or already scumread Titus or ???
The vote seems a little rash here and I'm not understanding the immediate jump here. What makes this take scummy, Murder?

Why isn't she confbiased town

This is a good question and with all the bloodlust for Infinity I'm feeling a scum agenda to get rid of them here. Townpoints for Infinity.

I wrote too much in those spoilers but I think you should read them peeps. Imma keep going.

[Aristophanes]

Spoiler: Pg. 19

Because Titus is smarter than that

This is a meh reason and I'm really not a fan of BoP reads.

Also Johnny has looked better over time as you have pointed out.

Ehhhhhhh.... That might be a stretch.

I'm curious both on Murder's read on Johnny looking better over time and Toog's skepticism about it here and I'd like both to say more words on it.

I look better every day baybeh

I am keen to see the VCA from Titus before I really commit to anything.

Either that or I summon the faerie vomit machine and start colour coding everything.

Whyyyyyy?
I'd like some content from you that is generated by you, not a promise to not do anything until Titus does. WTF is this shit?

I'm gonna move MC up to my strongest townlean.

Okay...what are your other reads?? I feel like you're lacking in them.

Johnny, Titus, and MURDERCAT are town.
JacksonVirgo and Infinity are scum.

Unsure on the third one.

Could you elaborate here?
I disagree with your scumreads mostly.
Italiano and Flea are scum from my read of the thread. Unsure of the third. I'm interested in how we have come to such different conclusions.

Yesterday's lim was clearly a town flip, and no one even bothered to ask for a claim.

Same issue with Momrangal, it's easy to say this in retrospect

I dislike this shade of Mara when she's already clearly stated they were V/LA at the time.

I am suspecting Statute was quickly run up as a way of saving Johnny.

Who do you think would be the main pushers if that's the case?

Didn't I just ask this?

Why isn't she confbiased town

Actually I like this a lot

Didn't I just post this? XD

I am keen to see the VCA from Titus before I really commit to anything.

Either that or I summon the faerie vomit machine and start colour coding everything.

Why exactly does them not posting the VCA make any difference to anything?

And I asked this... O.o

I'm gonna move MC up to my strongest townlean.

Do you have TRs at all or is MC simply your strongest town atm

GODDAMMIT JV GET OUT OF MY HEAD!
Okay I really like that we are coming at this game from like the exact same place. Townread for JV is fucking solid!

I am keen to see the VCA from Titus before I really commit to anything.

Either that or I summon the faerie vomit machine and start colour coding everything.

Why exactly does them not posting the VCA make any difference to anything?

VCA is one of Titus strongest points that I'm aware of. It's not perfect, but its damned good.

I'm also watching for something at the moment... ⁀⊙﹏☉⁀ something fun...

*sits on the blankie, sips tea and grins*

Yeah, Titus is good at VCA. But like, do you wait for a powersolver to solve a game for you normally?
And you're waiting for "something fun" instead of, like, doing something to make it happen??
Yeah, this is scum.

VOTE: JV they're giving me busy-worky vibes and playing it safe more than they usually do as town.

Where is italiano

I really disagree with this but I also have limited past games with JV (If any??)
I think they are solidly town here, as mentioned.

Spoiler: Pg. 20

If my theory is correct that scum jumped onto Statute to save Johnny, then scum would be in the early voters, particularly those who didn't vote Statute. The bussers would be towards the later part of the statute wagon. The names are purely different but for Jackson and myself, which suggests scum refused to bus.

Major Fos: Johnny and Jackson

VOTE: Johnny

Titus,vImma be honest, this confused me a tonne. Can you re-parse this for me?
Also I happen to think you're offbase and that both of those slots are town. i know the Johnny read isn't purely VCA. Is the JV read solely based on it tho?

Can we hang Infinity now or...?

No one has never stated a town read on them, and no one seems willing to even look at their direction

Why are you asking for permission instead of just voting

Attention it gets!

Its gotten yours, didn't it? If I could eliminate him myself I would

Did you learn anything from this attention and the reactions here Mara? If it's just for attention then I'd like the reads you gleaned from it. I like the certainty here, it's hard for scum to commit to a read like this. But claiming that you would vig them if you could, essentially, while making posts that ask permission to vote there, well it's a weird mix and I don't get it.

Sorry my peeps. From now on I'm not gonna promise things that I'm gonna do, I'm just either gonna do them or not do them. Will address Infinity as a whole in a moment because this post actually connects to it.

For me, on Day 2, Johnny has looked the worse. I don't like the Titus vote. I also don't like the way he tried to persuade me to go that route. His "And nah, I voted Titus because they had the biggest "i know both these wagons are on townies" energy of anyone yesterday" in 410 is just literally wrong. That was actually Momrangal and to an extent in the beginning. This is a lie and bad shade.

So I did his iso just now and it feels like it's missing something. Like he's not really trying to sort anyone and/or solve the game, just throwing shade everywhere.

Is agreeing scummy for Aristophanes? I’ve never played them.

There's a manipulative side to him, def

Doesn't answer the question really. I would've like to have known if agreeing is just his personality/playstyle and ultimately nai or if there is something else going on. Telling me there is a manipulative side is telling me nothing.

Ur scummy

In reference to Infinity's 171. Getting upset in 315 is in itself nai, but here it seemed slightly over the top. 389 sounds like a sheep of 369.

I also feel like a made a mistake by saying there was scum on MURDERCAT because it seemed like Johnny just jumped on that pretty quickly.

Oh, good catch Italiano. E-1 this early is a bit much.

I agree there is likely scum there, will take a look in a bit. Any thoughts on who looks like a culprit there?

Gamma or Titus. Mayyyyybe statue

Just too quick to jump on imo.

VOTE: Johnny

And yeah I'm sheeping Titus. Don't care what anyone says.

Aw shit this is a long one sorry guys. I'd spoiler it but nesting spoilers breaks MS

Ftr I'm known as being too agreeable and have been essentially called spineless many times in the speakeasy but Iunno if that applies here. I do know I'm really badly prone to townreading slots that townread me but I'm not sure if that actually helps or hinders your understanding of me here lol

Not big on the Johnny conclusion at all. It feels forced and stating that it is sheeping is again giving ones autonomy away and therefore shifting the blame for an ML preemptively.

Infinity would you be good voting for Johnny again? I don't really see the "looking better" from him like you mentioned in 343.

I reeeally dislike this, once again. Asking for votes rather than casing is scummy. Like I get that they made a case in the post quoted above but it's weak to start and asking for the wagon is weird.

Also MURDERCAT you have been somewhat quiet imo even though you have the most posts in the game. I don't know I've played two games with you I believe, and you just seemed more involved in those games; like a more lasting effect in your posts and movements. This game it feels like you are on the outside looking in instead of inside trying to figure things out.

Not a bad observation but it also feels like a forced reason to shade Murder here.

Ugh

Let's just

VOTE: italiano

This is a good reaction to all of this and I don't think it's SvS so townpoints to Mara.

Did you draft this post in a PT?

This was about 365

Ahh I did actually and didn't know it would link there. Noraa got it fixed for me.

O.o
I mean, maybe not a scumslip but also...yeah.
I missed that originally, I think Noraa had already fixed it by the time I read that post. But this raises flags.

Also MURDERCAT you have been somewhat quiet imo even though you have the most posts in the game. I don't know I've played two games with you I believe, and you just seemed more involved in those games; like a more lasting effect in your posts and movements. This game it feels like you are on the outside looking in instead of inside trying to figure things out.

This is odd that you just mention this now

Why is it odd? I've had my eyes elsewhere.

As in you had better wagons to push but now you want to shade Murder for some reason?
Hmm...

Ugh

Let's just

VOTE: italiano

What are you doing? Don't just throw stuff out there and expect to hit something.

Do you even have a read on anyone else at all?

Come on?! Really? So I've just been twiddling my thumbs here huh?

I don't hero solve and try to figure out the game on Day 1. I thought Statue was scum, I was wrong. So what I haven't laid out a wall post with every little detail of why I think what I think. No one has. Stop trying to put a square peg into a round hole.

I hate this reaction to Mara. It's way over the top and feels disingenuous. The bolded especially I don't see as a genuinely frustrated townpost.

@Momrangal: How do you feel about your scumread voting with you? Or did he magically become town in your eyes?

This also reads like shading and it's icky

As for the johnny read: I've done a bit of meta on johnny, and he can be limbait, and hasn't been super engaged this game, so it doesn't take that much for me to TR him.

I'm bored. Who up?

Wassup Jacko. How you feel about the game so far?

This feels like a towny thing to do, disengaged scum can be uncomfortable engaging people 1-on-1 because it's easier to read people in interactions like that, so they could get caught.

I played a game where scum no killed so one of them could claim doc and ride that claim to victory. I think Gamma was there.

And nah, I voted Titus because they had the biggest "i know both these wagons are on townies" energy of anyone yesterday

No, vote Titus. Or disagree with me and tell me why. It's a short iso

I didn't agree with the read on titus, but I can see where it came from. The follow-up made me feel like he really believed in the read.

I really like where Infinity came abouts on Johnny and think this is protown for both slots.

Your reaction over a single vote is pretty amusing though

Thisssss!
So much THIS!

k that might be all the backreading for tn but I think I have solid reads now.

VOTE: Flea
I would have voted Italiano but there's a replacement and I want to read what Haschel has to say first.

[Aristophanes]

@Mara, @Beginning, why does this wagon make Infinity scum? I am now lost again in why you suspect them here.

My Infinity read is 100% based on Infinity's interactions with MURDERCAT early day 1. It has nothing to really do with the wagon.

You were offwagon so this isn't the worst post, but why didn't you ask for a claim?

Fair. I think my thought process at the time was Gamma Emerald had already posted intent, so I figured that Statue would see that as a request for a claim. Johnny proceeded to hammer in about 12 hours from intent, and I don't think Statue was on during that time period. In other words, even if I did ask for a claim, it probably wouldn't have made a difference. I guess I should recalibrate how I am reading Johnny because now that I think about it, shutting off communication there was 1) very survivalistic (since Johnny was the primary other wagon) and 2) pretty antitown (because after all, Johnny hammered a town PR before they had a chance to officially claim.) I still think the wagon and game state at the end of day 1 though suggests that both slots were town and Johnny just made the mechanically wrong move, but it is still something to watch more closely.

I snipped the above quote to the stuff I wanted to address.

Noted on the Murder/Infinity interactions being the drive for this. I should look back at those interactions.

I think Johnny is town still too. Johnny's hammer was probably NAI imo and it's not like there was any indication Surferchu was a TPR before they flipped. Their giving up there was bad considering their role. But also that's a good point that they should have been given the time to claim and that they should have realized intent essentially was asking for the claim to happen. Thank you for the response!

[Aristophanes]

But like, do you wait for a powersolver to solve a game for you normally?
And you're waiting for "something fun" instead of, like, doing something to make it happen?

Why not wait for fae to do faer thing instead of just calling faer scum off the bat?

In what I've read Flea keeps on not doing that and sitting back to let things happen around them or shifting the blame for things going wrong before they do. It's pinged me more than once reinforcing the idea that it's scummy and not simply a one-off of Flea sitting back as town.

[Aristophanes]

Fae vomit?

And noted, sorry to hear that and much love <3

[Aristophanes]

Aristophanes, do you agree with that?

Heya Haschel! Tbh I wasn't around at that time but I was planning on coming in and found hammer had been dropped. I'd just eaten a prod. There were still a few irl days left at the time of the hammer so it's not like deadline was hours away or anything. So no, I can't say I agree with it.

Perhaps the hammer was imminent with the stated intent, but there was still lots of time for a claim and a shift if it was believed to be towny. Instead, Dead backup PR.

[Aristophanes]

Aristophanes, do you agree with that?

Heya Haschel! Tbh I wasn't around at that time but I was planning on coming in and found hammer had been dropped. I'd just eaten a prod. There were still a few irl days left at the time of the hammer so it's not like deadline was hours away or anything. So no, I can't say I agree with it.

Perhaps the hammer was imminent with the stated intent, but there was still lots of time for a claim and a shift if it was believed to be towny. Instead, Dead backup PR.

Any further conclusions?

Yeah I mean I really didn't think they were scummy until I wrote that out and am reconsidering things now. I'll give them an Iso tomorrow and see if recent things change my view of them.

I missed an awful lot of D1 (I mean, my vote was still from RVS when the hammer was dropped) so looking at him with fresh eyes is definitely needed.

[Aristophanes]

Pagetop?

[Aristophanes]

Tryna steal the pagetop like:

[Aristophanes]

Noraa stopping me like:

[Aristophanes]

Ooooo dannflor is here!

And an extension? Amazing.

I'll see what I can do here tomorrow. Just tired and busy atm.

[Aristophanes]

Noraa, this was a wonderful game!
Thank you for the invite <3

I almost didn't join but I'm really glad I did!


Toogs, I don't recall if I said so in the dead chat, but you absolutely killed it this game! Especially for someone who hates playing as scum! Like, you were fantastic


Titus, you scare me and I was looking at who would be the toughest lims as the game continued and especially those who are really good players.

From the Scum PT:

Like Titus is already obvtown
Gamma is going to be leading the game soon and thus will have to be played around or eliminated
Infinity is already having good takes and I can see that being our downfall.
I'd be afraid od Beginning if it were their main but the alt takes away so much of their power.

Johnny, Italiano, and Surferchu are our MisElims this game.
If we can get Murdercat as well that would be amazing but leaning on an early 1v1 is not a place I want to be.

I hate that Johnny is probably dead today because I do love the guy but so be it if it happens.

That's why I chose to kill you N1.

[Aristophanes]

Gypyx, the Ascetic actually didn't tell me there was a vig as much as the backup Gunsmith did. I mean, why else does scum need a gunsmith?

JV, I think you're overlooking the fact that gating PRs does heavily change their balance and also that Swing isn't always a bad thing! I would rather playin a fun, swingy game than a bad, balanced one. I have always held that thought and it is reflected in the setups I've made myself over the years.

I think not being multitasking is also a huge balancing effect. We take it for granted nowadays, just like we take daytalk for granted, but it's actually huge mechanically.

I will say that the 3-shot vig might have been a bit much, but otherwise I don't really have much to say about the setup!
Out of curiosity, which took precedent in NAR? The Alien or the JK?

[Aristophanes]

The vig had a lot of balance against it though

It also could have ended the game with a town victory without a single scum Elim which is...well not good

[Aristophanes]

not sure i understeand your first sentance, could you develop?

Novice 3-shot vigilante was a meme role kinda btw

the alien does, according to the normal game NAR page

Oh coo, I haven't looked at NAR too closely since the Alien became a registered role so that's neat to know!

The first sentence was in response to this

Activated ascetic protects from everything but vigilante, while commuter protects from everything, I believed that the fact that this wasn't a commuter was a decent enough hint as it's a way more simple / logical role to put

and if the mafia has their important role die D1, that seems normal to me that it goes not-so-great for the afterwards

I think Ascetic does make sense as a flag that there is a Vig, but it also wasn't the biggest flag scum had that there was one. Mafia having a Gunsmith role, even as a backup, implies some sort of town killing role. I mean, it could be a fakeclaim that is just really good and is a red herring but I don't think that's as likely in most setups. So having the Gunsmith was the big flag that town had a vig, not the Ascetic.

It follows that having an ascetic and not being multitasking implied the lack of existence of a different type of investigative role existing. What would be the point of a non-multitasking ascetic if it would be no help against the watcher/follower/motion detector/cop/whatever else could exist? Meaning it probably doesn't. I suppose had I been thinking of it that way, I'd have been a lot more at ease when Toog claimed MD, though it was a big risk for him to do so regardless.

If I'd been thinking of mechanics and their implications while I was alive this would have been way more helpful

[Aristophanes]

Again, based on my outdated setup intuitions, this would be balanced if you gave town a 2-shot cop

??

I think this was overall pretty balanced actually but look at the power Town had.

Loyal Alien gives a cleared protection. While it can block said player's role, it basically is a cop shot if there is no death of a night, unlike the JK. Now having the JK calls this into question and I like that the two roles get a lot of contention. That balanced them out greatly imo. Having both in the game makes for a possible 1v1 in claiming and also makes the Alien clear less clear while the JK could go either way.

Gunsmith had a possibility of guilties too, though risked getting the Vig which as I think about it had a lot more balance to it.

Scum had a low-powered gunsmith that was only a backup and a no-powered ascetic as the chances of it being used on a night when the gunsmith checked the player are very low.

I actually like how the chances of a successful vig, NK, and gunsmith check are ho heavily hindered by the JK, Alien, and Ascetic. It's a really nice balance.

Cop would have way townsided that.

After all this, I have to say, great setup Gypyx


Oops, manymany ninjas

[Aristophanes]

In this game the only power that was relevant was 1 shot of the vig (and the no kill was a bit helpful I guess), and it didn't feel particularly unlucky for town

This isn't really right, the vig getting blocked isn't great, and if the alien lives longer/gets a save on n2 it's way better for town. I guess it's a function of most of the town's power being protective, small-probability events increase town's winrate by a lot. I enjoy setups that have guaranteed clears more I guess

I understand that, and it's definitely a style of game design. I am far more partial to encouraging dayplay despite the roles present. I love a good undermining of expectations and this game had a lot of that.

Having a role that clears/guilties can really demoralize scum and generally it's not worth the tradeoff imo.

I think this was overall pretty balanced actually but look at the power Town had.

Not disputing any of this, I do think my intuitions are outdated

The thing that happened this game which made the alien protect not a clear is probably a pretty common occurrence for this setup though. All that has to happen is for the alien to die before they claim.

To me the gunsmith/backup gunsmith combo should favor scum because it's pretty unlikely the scum role dies before the town one, but it's true that the upside to town is higher.

All good, mine might be outdated too tbh.

Gunsmith/Backup was a cool interaction but it had the potential to decimate the scumteam. You take away scum numbers and reward town with a means to do that even more thoroughly. We were lucky the backup went down and that the main Gunsmith outlived them, because that could have recked us.

[Aristophanes]

Toogs, I don't recall if I said so in the dead chat, but you absolutely killed it this game! Especially for someone who hates playing as scum! Like, you were fantastic

You should look at my wiki for mafia-aligned games. It's pretty ridiculous. I

hate

playing mafia-aligned because of the mental and slightly physical tolls I take, but my win rate is high. This game played out a lot like Hypnotists or Mortal Kombat mafia for me.

O.o

That winrate! :O

Holy shit I'm impressed!

[Aristophanes]

Noraaland villain chat: viewtopic.php?f=90&t=85954
Noraaland hell chat: viewtopic.php?f=90&t=85936&p=12608681#p12608681
Noraaland spec chat: viewtopic.php?f=90&t=85937
Noraaland jacko chat: viewtopic.php?f=90&t=86005
Noraaland creator chat: viewtopic.php?f=90&t=85567

I don't think any of these were actually released yet. I get a "Not Authorized" error when trying to open them.

Give it a couple hours, she's been busy lol

[Aristophanes]

Or perhaps if I am bribed with bear gifs, I'll do it today. We'll see how good yall's bear gifs are ig.

Ask and you shall receive

Spoiler:

[Aristophanes]

=D

[Aristophanes]

Heyyyy!
I hate being

~that guy~

but I noticed something that I think is a mod error and I'm mostly posting this just so it's noted and not to shame the mod(s) who did a great job this game!

Subject: Mini 2194 Noraaland Mod pt.

Night 2 Actions

Night 2 Actions

Aristophanes kills Haschel Cedricson
Toogeloo Gunsmiths Infinity 324
MURDERCAT shoots Aristophanes
Haschel Cedricson Aliens Aristophanes

Haschel's action would have gone through first, making my kill fail, and making MURDERCAT's kill fail. Both of us should have lived the night, not died here.

[Aristophanes]

OH I FORGOT IT WAS LOYAL!!

Fuck me XD
I take that back entirely. Thanks for clarifying!

Man, this setup had a lot of working parts for a Normal!