Mini Normal 2197: Noraaland ~Endgame~

[Toogeloo]

I don't play Sundays. So, try not to shoot up the thread in the next 30 hours, please? I'm already heavily over gamed for how much time I spend playing.

[Toogeloo]

I'm E-2, fyi

This post was scummy to me because it's like "hey make sure not to kill me" but you don't contribute anything.

I like Infinity for town with this post.

[Toogeloo]

I don't like the top wagons.

We should just
VOTE: No Lim

instead.

Yeah, no.

VOTE: In the beginning

[Toogeloo]

I got not much better at the moment though

[Toogeloo]

Really just town reading Infinity and that's it.

[Toogeloo]

I can just see where Infinity was coming from with his post I quoted. That seems like a town observation to me.

[Toogeloo]

This is really surface level analysis.

You don't want a dumb vote, don't make a dumb post.

[Toogeloo]

I can just see where Infinity was coming from with his post I quoted. That seems like a town observation to me.

You don't think it's easily fakeable?

I mean, sure, but do I? No.

I do suspect that MurderCat might be town as well though, so I'm looking elsewhere.

[Toogeloo]

@mod: I'm going to limited activity for the rest of the night and all of tomorrow. I will be in the hospital undergoing extensive nerve testing. Don't fret, I'm not getting the impression anything is wrong.

[Toogeloo]

My vote is serious and my tone is not

What does this mean?

---

In The Beginning: That vote to, quite deliberately, put MC at E-1 was scummy af. The no-elimination vote is super weird, but doesn't make any sense for scum to do, and I don't he's done anything scummy since. Probably town.

Scummy as fuck, does things that don't make sense, and then done nothing scummy for a while = probably town?

---

I feel like Johnny is just rolling over, which seems like something town do more often than scum.

[Toogeloo]

Where's your head at right now, Gato de Muerto?

[Toogeloo]

In student council you had way more energy than this, same with haunted village

Or at least, an attention to nuance

Or something is different idk

Energy levels change. I don't think that is a particularly strong reading mechanism. My energy levels tend to be a bit higher after I take breaks, or if I'm playing just one game. If I've been practically marathoning mafia, I get way lazier. This is one of the reasons I always disagree with trying to solve by meta.

[Toogeloo]

Not answering for MC here, just stating that it's not a good hunting tool.

[Toogeloo]

What do you think of the Johnny wagon, Infinity?

[Toogeloo]

I don't like how Johnny doesn't have any fight, and there's no defense of his slot. Like, it's too easily being pushed through.

[Toogeloo]

UNVOTE:
VOTE: Statue

Yeah, I think this is better.

[Toogeloo]

I was warned that Normals were slow... I had no idea.

[Toogeloo]

Why's it always get so quiet at L-2/1?

[Toogeloo]

Mom came in and had nothing to add, but didn't vote. Are you ambivalent to the Statue lynch?

Are we waiting for a claim? Johnny wasn't asked to claim (and neither has Statue tbf) at L-1, yet MurderCat was when he was RVS L-2.

So what are we waiting for?

[Toogeloo]

So, what analysis would you offer to dissuade us from this lynch?

[Toogeloo]

I pushed you to dissuade us and tell us why you thought they were town yesterday, mom. I don't really feel you have the right to chastise us about it now.

[Toogeloo]

I wish they had claimed prior to hammer tho.

Johnny didn't claim, and he hit E-1 as well yesterday. Were you around to pressure a claim at the time? What's done is done, but today is already full of shoulda, could a, wouldas.

You still town read Titus?

[Toogeloo]

Also Johnny has looked better over time as you have pointed out.

Ehhhhhhh.... That might be a stretch.

[Toogeloo]

I'm gonna move MC up to my strongest townlean.

[Toogeloo]

VOTE: JV they're giving me busy-worky vibes and playing it safe more than they usually do as town.

Where is italiano

They have the second most posts in game. I think I only played with them once in Bears with Guns where they were scum, so I don't know them too well.

Major Fos: Johnny and Jackson

Outside the VCA, what do you make of Jack?

[Toogeloo]

Did Italiano really just replace out after getting pressure?

[Toogeloo]

Did the replacement request completely swap your read on Italiano, Infinity? You're still voting the slot.

I've seen scum replace out under pressure at least a half dozen times, so it NAI as far as I am concerned.

I am leaning Titus on gut due to the fairly generic VCA as her only real activity.

VOTE: Titus

[Toogeloo]

Didn't JV do a fake claim out the gate after they killed me Night 1?

I just have JV null because I really don't see any activity that seems like hunting, and I get the impression they are just trying to stay engaged. I relate because I feel like I am chomping at the bit waiting for something to happen.

I'm used to at least one or two aggressive people in a game that go ham on a read, and that usually perpetuates the game state. Whereas here, it feels like everyone is sipping maitais on the beach.

[Toogeloo]

In the meantime, though, I would like a summary of the game so far from JohnnyFarrar and Titus.

Any particular reason from those two?

[Toogeloo]

Haschel coming in hot is kinda lulz. Reminds me of Math in Bears. Your not a Mason are you? (Don't answer that, it's a joke).

I'm still thinking that the Italiano/Haschel slot hasn't really town told yet.

Think someone asked my reads earlier.

Townread:
MurderCat
Aristophanes (really liked everything after day start)

Town-leans:
Infinity

Null pretty much else.

My Titus vote was a sheep on MurderCat, but gonna swap my sheep vote to Flea.

UNVOTE:
VOTE: Flea

[Toogeloo]

Aristophanes posts today look pretty good. I don't stan that push at all.

[Toogeloo]

I need momrangal to tell me about her reads. I'm isoing slots today, and hers is messy. She posted a reads-list, but she's voted for people on the town reads side of that list. She has also voted a lot of slots, and the impression I'm getting is 'any lynch,' bar two or three people.

[Toogeloo]

Why did you choose momrangal to ISO today out of all the slots?

I've ISO'd most the slots, actually. Mom's posts seem the most confusingly hungry.

I get ambivalence from many other slots (like Titus, JV, Johnny, ITB, MC to a lesser degree). There are some slots I am not interested in since they actually seem like they are trying (Ari, Infinity, Italiano/Hascel). Mom's slot seems to actually want blood, and she's wagon hopped a lot, so I want to push there.

[Toogeloo]

Right now, I'm good with a Flea or mom lim (though I might be the only one interested in the latter), and against an Ari or Infinity lim. Probably wouldn't lim Haschal either, though I don't think anyone cares about Italiano's lim anymore.

[Toogeloo]

What is the vote count? I don't like this line in the sand that was drawn and turned this into a 1v1. The recent back and forth votes are ugly.

Something reeks here.

[Toogeloo]

I'm not going to replace out, but I'm extremely overwhelmed in real life right now, and way over gamed in mafia. I also haven't been feeling like playing the past week or so. I don't know if it's a slump or just exhaustion, but I probably need a break after I finish my current games.

[Toogeloo]

[4] Flea The Magician: Aristophanes, Toogeloo, Dannflor, Titus
[4] Aristophanes: MURDERCAT, Haschel Cedricson, JohnnyFarrar, Momrangal
[2] Dannflor: Infinity 324, Flea the Magician
[1] Infinity 324: In the beginning
[1] Not Voting: Salsabil Faria

I'm questioning both the leading wagons right now.

[Toogeloo]

I'm thinking and looking at stuff...

[Toogeloo]

I feel like a lot of lurkers here just watching this unfold.

[Toogeloo]

You think they are both town?

There's two things going through my head.

Either mom is protecting Flea, and they're both scum, or both wagons are being diverted from someone else, possibly Dann or Infinity.

I really don't like how Titus voted Flea and then mom voted Ari though, which is why I'm leaning more on the former. Titus and Mom are almost assuredly not group scum together based on those votes and the timing.

My main concern here though is for as dynamic as this vote seems to be, the game is very quiet. Something about it all is off putting.

[Toogeloo]

I don't think mom is scum

Why?

[Toogeloo]

1 day to deadline, but whatever.

UNVOTE:
VOTE: momrangal

[Toogeloo]

mannnn this sequence just feels like a way for scum to wash their hands of either wagon

too much wagon dynamics analysis not enough focus on their individual reads of the slots

I don't understand the conclusion that Titus and Mom are assuredly not scum together

Touched a nerve, did I?

Seems a little odd that Jacko was a strong contender for lim today, and all of a sudden it's completely forgotten about.

[Toogeloo]

Boo no let's just lim someone we don't deserve another extension, it's not fair to scum team

Infinity why are you voting Flea who is face up town?

What are you fighting for here? Any lim, a no lim, an anything but faer lim, or a "someone but it has to be Ari" lim?

Would you lim one of Dann or mom with me?

[Toogeloo]

The game deserves a no lim with this activity.

[Toogeloo]

VOTE: Flea

[Toogeloo]

People have already shown they are paying attention and just not posting.

[Toogeloo]

VOTE: Infinity

I'm obviously wrong about my position on mom, and my reads in the game.

I think mom is near lock-town from play yesterday, and I still strongly town-read MC overall. I agree that either Johnny or Titus might have been aliened on Night 1 based on Haschel's interactions, and since Alien only works on same alignment, it's more likely that the role blocked a kill.

I think Dann is my #1 scum read at this point, with the remaining scum member in the leftovers. I'm voting Infinity to show that I am willing to follow my town reads and avoid a repeat of the Day 2 deadline challenge, but I encourage people to evaluate Dannflor and how his slot managed to avoid attention after Jack's replacement out.

[Toogeloo]

Didn't like them Day 1. Thought they were a bit better Day 2.

[Toogeloo]

I have no defense other than I thought Ari was good posting in his spoiler tags.

[Toogeloo]

I took no action last night that would do anything to prevent a kill.

What did we figure out yesterday that put us in a 1v1 between mastina and NPOM/unwnd? I haven't liked mastina's slot since Day 2 as her analysis is always flawed.

[Toogeloo]

Yeah, If the mod can delete that please.

[Toogeloo]

I don't play multiple games well, lol.

[Toogeloo]

Are you twins? I know siblings, but I didn't think twins.

[Toogeloo]

There's no way town has both the Alien and Jailkeeper in a 13p game.

[Toogeloo]

I assume it's because I pushed her so heavily yesterday, and I'm not entirely different than the pushes currently happening and their defenses of Ari.

I'm not 100% vested in mafia games right now, but I think between the "town-block" and whoever vigged Ari, the game is probably completely solvable.

[Toogeloo]

UNVOTE:
VOTE: In the Beginning

[Toogeloo]

I am an odd night motion detector.

Night 1, I detected no motion on/from MurderCat.
Night 3, I detected motion on/from Dannflor.

No motion on MC was one of the reasons I was town reading him harder on Day 2.

Dann needs to claim.

[Toogeloo]

This is my current reads-list...

Lock-town
-MurderCat

Lean-town
-Johnny

PoE
-Titus
-Salsa
-Infinity
-Dann

I don't like the idea of both an Alien and a JK, so my current solve is Infinity and Dann.

[Toogeloo]

Yeah, one scm was killed N2. A vig, pgo, or joat is more likely. That player is also confirmed town imo.

[Toogeloo]

I think Damn is due for a prod soon, but we can't yet him if he decides to lurk out.

Scum could maybe have just given up too.

[Toogeloo]

I would say Titus before Johnny, and I don't think MC even needs to claim if he doesn't want to.

PEdit: we could still mass claim without Damn here. It just adds more fuel to meeting him.

[Toogeloo]

yet and meeting = yeet and yeeting

[Toogeloo]

Growing old here

I've really had to force myself to slow down in this game. I was constantly chomping at the bit in Day 1 and 2. We're Goldilocks players I think. Themes are too fast, mini normals are too slow lol.

Just let it play out.

[Toogeloo]

I can't remember if I need to prod dodge or not, but I'm doing it now.

ZZZzzzZZZzzz...

[Toogeloo]

It bugs me that Dann has been pushing for my exile since Day 2, and yet after my claim today he didn't even fight it, call me a liar, or at the very least acknowledge it.

[Toogeloo]

I think he knows he's caught and given up.

[Toogeloo]

If scum have a gunsmith, then the backup gunsmith just serves as a trap for scum.

[Toogeloo]

And tbh, 2 goons and a gunsmith seems like a weak mafia team.

[Toogeloo]

VOTE: Dannflor

[Toogeloo]

Dann will probably self hammer if you keep that vote, would like Titus to take a peak at the votes if possible

I can be patient I guess.

UNVOTE:

[Toogeloo]

VOTE: Dannflor

[Toogeloo]

If it's all the same to everyone else, I'd rather just try to finish the game today while I'm alive (since the consensus is that I am the obvious night kill tonight). A no elimination just takes my voice away from the game.

From a setup perspective, I've struggled believing a JK and an Alien exist in the game together. I haven't had any town vibes the entire game from Titus though, and my initial thought was that after Ari died and Dann was caught, scum were rolling over. I don't know what to think about Salsa, but they are my last pick for possible scum. That's where my head is currently at.

[Toogeloo]

What are your individual player reads Infinity?

[Toogeloo]

I won't be on tonight or Sundays as per usual. You'll probably see me at least once tomorrow if day isn't over.

[Toogeloo]

So...

Infinity townread everyone.
Titus townread myself and Infinity.
Salsa townread myself and Infinity.
I can find reasons to scum read everyone.

Does this about sum things up?
>_>

Does this sum up

[Toogeloo]

Whoops, I screwed that edit up.

[Toogeloo]

I'm being facetious btw.

[Toogeloo]

I want affirmation that Infinity isn't going to pander to Titus or Salsabil tomorrow and that she actually has a solve in mind.

[Toogeloo]

Salsabil, why were you under the impression you were being setup to be mis-exiled today and asking to be eliminated before Dann? It was an odd request at end of day yesterday that was never going to pass, and I assume you would have known that.

Additionally, why are you threatening that a no lim hammer is a scum claim but keeping your vote there at -1? If you were that concerned, why not just unvote for now?

[Toogeloo]

Gamma Emerald, Salsabil's predecessor, played a fairly political game based on his ISO. One thing that stuck out to me was the discussion of "Titus' rule of 3" and then Gamma made attempts to never put three names in a post afterwards. Salsabil themselves has been more go with the flow up until end of day yesterday, but I really don't see the scum motivation of offering yourself up to be exiled before the caught scum team member when not near a Xylo game state.

[Toogeloo]

VOTE: no elim

Good luck tomorrow.

[Toogeloo]

I was not expecting to be alive today which means either one of you two knows I will vote incorrectly, or I am being setup to be the final elimination. I scanned Salsabil last night as it turns out, and got a positive movement result, which I know looks "convenient." I want to hear from both Infinity and Titus, especially on the subject of Salsabil's flip. I'm fully aware that the result of my scan is actually inconsequential since no matter who I scanned, or what I got, I would have had to prove to the other town that I'm not scum faking it regardless.

Also, I will be largely absent from mafia starting tonight and extending into Monday. My in-laws are flying in tonight and staying through the holiday weekend, leaving Monday evening. I don't expect much opportunity to play.

I will be re-evaluating my read on Infinity on the basis of whether I believe the claim, and I will be looking at Titus' ISO. My current running assumptions are that either Titus thinks I'll help her mis-elim Infinity today, or Infinity might be setting me up to be eliminated based on both the Night Kill and the sense that I think Titus might be more easily swayable to eliminate outside of Infinity in any combination of a Final 3.

[Toogeloo]

It makes zero sense that I would night kill Salsabil as scum. They had me as conftown. I would have more than likely eliminated Infinity, tried to pass it off as protection fear, and put Titus and Salsabil against each other with a fake claim.

Like, what is my motivation to kill Salsabil last night?

[Toogeloo]

I think toog wanted a believable explanation for what happened last night

This is exactly the reaction I figured you would have btw .

[Toogeloo]

V/LA starts now.

[Toogeloo]

Toog, what was your result and why didn't you claim it at start?

I scanned Salsabil last night as it turns out, and got a positive movement result, which I know looks "convenient."

[Toogeloo]

Why would I know that?

Better question, why wouldn't Dann counter or fight me after my claim in order to further distance us?

[Toogeloo]

My apologies for the long absence.

No one should have killed S from my PoV as I strongly favored eliminating them publicly. It doesn't make sense to me.

If killing Salsa benefitted no one, wouldn't that make them the optimal night kill for someone stuck in a corner?

Toog why did you motion detect salsa?

I wasn't going to scan you in the possibility you were bluffing, so I figured it didn't matter who I picked between Salsa and Titus and just picked one. I remember thinking I had a 66% chance of getting a positive result, and I even stated in my night action to Noraa that I was probably taking that result to my grave.

---

Titus, can you give me your impressions of Infinity and I right now? You seem to be playing a waiting game on Infinity to decide the game, and I want to hear your thoughts. Have you done any ISOs of either of us?

I ISO'd Infinity a couple game days ago, after their claim, around the time I disagreed with the balance of it. Their Day 1 is spent in a 1v1 scuffle with MC, their Day 2 was ok up until the tie breaking vote on Ari v. Flea, and then after that they spent the rest of the game going with the status quo. They had early votes on JV/Dann when there was no pressure on that slot, Day 1 and Day 2, but they did vote Dann out the gate on Day 3 before we did the mass claim.

Your ISO is a bit more barren. You don't take many stances in the game, and with the exception of one naked vote on JV in Day 1, you haven't voted for a flipped scum at all. It wasn't until Day 5 that you really even had a presence in the game.

[Toogeloo]

As for the suggestion that I killed S because I was backed into a corner makes no sense.

I didn't specifically call you out on the kill. I could have been implying Infinity.

Your claim makes more sense, but isn't proven.

I motion detected MurderCat on Night 1 with a no motion on or from him, and claimed that before 5 other people claimed. There's not much more I can prove about my role than that though, I guess.

It's going to be a very different Titus if I stay around much. Real life is that impacted. In Warehouse 13 (just finished) I asked to be eliminated by May 17th because of my schedule. I drove 700 miles over the past 3 days. Tomorrow will be easier. Tonight I'll be drained.

What are you asking here? This game will be easily over by May 17th, and given the state of the game over Easter weekend, I don't see a rush to finish it tonight.

---

-Yes maybe hasch protected you but even that is less than a 50% chance in a vacuum because we don't know who he protected, also I think scum was more likely to kill mom than you because you were decently suspected

This is pretty much the only reason I lean town-you over town-Titus. I can't fathom Titus being a N1 shot given her activity and literally no aggression towards scum, however...

I am here in lylo despite being the night one clear.

...is Titus heavily implying that she

should

be cleared. I'd more likely believe Johnny (Haschal's other special request) was the N1 NK than believe Titus was.

[Toogeloo]

Wow...

[Toogeloo]

VOTE: Titus

Love you all, no matter how it ends.

[Toogeloo]

Yeah... About that.

Sorry.

[Toogeloo]

I'm the Mafia Gunsmith. I do love you both though. Really, no hard feelings.

[Toogeloo]

Noraa, get in here and wrap this up, pweeease!

[Toogeloo]

So, just so you both know. I hate playing scum. I was a wreck almost the entire game, you wouldn't believe how much sleep I lost.

[Toogeloo]

I appreciate it

[Toogeloo]

Scum weren't multitasking this game. So my condition to Ari and JV was that I'll pick my targets for who I gunsmith, they could decide amongst themselves who was doing the kill and who to kill (the scum chat was pretty dead in all honesty).

I think they were just legit afraid of you. My claim of motion detector was a hail mary because I had no idea if MC had moved or been targeted the entire game.

[Toogeloo]

I almost killed Infinity last night, but I felt the MD would be more believable on Salsabil, and knowing I wasn't going to be able to play over the weekend, I didn't want to feel like I need to have to try and force an engine state with Salsabil and Titus in less than a day. I thought the Salsabil kill would cause enough of a head scratching component that would buy me some time to get through my family time lol.

[Toogeloo]

Sad I got nightkilled because I was gonna go hard after Toog.

And that's why you got Night Killed.

[Toogeloo]

No redactions from me for scum chat.

[Toogeloo]

Oh, hilariously, the 3 people Ari wanted killed on Night 1 all lived to the 4 player endgame.

[Toogeloo]

Toogs, I don't recall if I said so in the dead chat, but you absolutely killed it this game! Especially for someone who hates playing as scum! Like, you were fantastic

You should look at my wiki for mafia-aligned games. It's pretty ridiculous. I

hate

playing mafia-aligned because of the mental and slightly physical tolls I take, but my win rate is high. This game played out a lot like Hypnotists or Mortal Kombat mafia for me.