MT 2203: Grand Idea Upick: Awakening [Endgame]

[Raya36]

3) VOTE: raya - are you scum again?

Of course not but I do remember you mentioned not getting cult early last game too VOTE: korina

[Raya36]

Fuck it, I'm claiming.

I'm a NK-Immune Miller Vig. I cannot be a SK, because like A50 said, my third pick was cult.

nvm UNVOTE:

HOW ARE THERE 4 PAGES ALREADY

[Raya36]

@guillo, I was also low-key debating on sending in toad from mario, jsyk

That would've been really funny

[Raya36]

our shot went through according to Ircher

so Korina is bulletproof

why are you bulletproof, Korina

-mahi

This doesn't sound honest

[Raya36]

Raya, what if I ask you nicely to join my cult? Pooky isn't here, I don't think, so I'm taking the mantle up in their honor.

Well I have nothing to worry about this time so I will absolutely join your cult Korina

(sorry Pooky)

[Raya36]

Raya, what if I ask you nicely to join my cult? Pooky isn't here, I don't think, so I'm taking the mantle up in their honor.

nm he totally picked that cult thing that gets people to join via posts

That would also be very funny

[Raya36]

hello. raya.

-mahi

hello. mahi.

[Raya36]

I think everyone who's posted thus far, excluding mahimahi is probably town as well. I think without a shadow of a doubt, mahimahi is 3p scum. I'm also going to sleep, so I'll intermittently reply while I'm at work tomorrow.

I think they're more likely messing around

[Raya36]

3) VOTE: raya - are you scum again?

Of course not but I do remember you mentioned not getting cult early last game too VOTE: korina

Find me a Cult ROle that is also BP in the GIM thread and I'll consider it. For now I fully believe Korina's claimed role and alignment

Yeah, I believe Korina too. The thought process and choices are very Korina

[Raya36]

HOW ARE THERE 4 PAGES ALREADY

Some people talk too much (which is a relief for me because no matter how much I shitpost I won't be having 20% of the day posts all by myself)

Well at least now when I check mafiascum to procrastinate I'll for sure have multiple pages to catch up on

[Raya36]

I think everyone who's posted thus far, excluding mahimahi is probably town as well. I think without a shadow of a doubt, mahimahi is 3p scum. I'm also going to sleep, so I'll intermittently reply while I'm at work tomorrow.

I think they're more likely messing around

Claiming dayvig and saying I'm bulletproof doesn't sound like joking to me. If they were to say it was to see how I'd react, I'd be more inclined, but I'm still shooting them tonight. If they flip town, it's whatever. I at least confirm my existence tonight, unless scum have a bus-driver or roleblocker.

I don't think scum or third party would be this obvious (especially jester type roles) unless they have specific motivation to be killed at night. I'd be careful but idk

[Raya36]

I think everyone who's posted thus far, excluding mahimahi is probably town as well. I think without a shadow of a doubt, mahimahi is 3p scum. I'm also going to sleep, so I'll intermittently reply while I'm at work tomorrow.

I think they're more likely messing around

without a shadow of a doubt

is far too confident, don't ya think

seems like they're lying about their beliefs

-mahi

Nah, Korina is just confident in general

[Raya36]

HOW ARE THERE 4 PAGES ALREADY

Some people talk too much (which is a relief for me because no matter how much I shitpost I won't be having 20% of the day posts all by myself)

Well at least now when I check mafiascum to procrastinate I'll for sure have multiple pages to catch up on

Yea, I also tend to post a lot, so knowing that, me and A50 will probably compose around 20% of the posts easily.

You already have like 30% alone so...

[Raya36]

Raya is literally flipped town

-mahi

Of course

[Raya36]

i once ate an orange with the skin still on

-mahi

Meh. I always do that. Bananas too.

I once ate an apple with the skin still on

[Raya36]

Hello. New to to this site but not to mafia games.

Welcome to the site!

[Raya36]

I SENT IN ONE-SHOT DEATHPROOF CULT LEADER, AND DIDN'T GET IT, I'M ANGRY ABOUT IT, DON'T REMIND ME I DIDN'T ROLL CULT

From my experience modding a grand idea with Korina in it, this is towny.

korina must die for his transgressions and lies

mahimahi, should we take the shot?

-mahi

locked and loaded on the target, over

- mahimahi

this on the other hand is scummy tunneling

voting korina is mafiaclaiming

a bit too stronge an accusation, korina spewed town but could be scum

Raya is literally flipped town

-mahi

are you saying Raya is confirmed town?! What the heck?

VOTE: mahimahi - your initial posts strike me as scum tunneled on a town claim. Hopefully you aren't actually claiming Raya is confirmed town but you have to realize saying "X is literally flipped town" means you know that X is confirmed town and if I think you're scummy that makes me want to exile you more.

I'm still leaning towards Mahi is messing around. Scum would try to blend in a bit better and not obvscum?

[Raya36]

they should commit to whether they were serious or not, cause they sprinkled in joke posts

Agreed. Maybe they can confirm if they were joking or not.

[Raya36]

I'm still leaning towards Mahi is messing around. Scum would try to blend in a bit better and not obvscum?

Maybe if this wasn't GI then sure.

You mean in GIM scum are more likely to act how they are?

[Raya36]

yeah this is GIM but mahi still seems way too confident on their reads.

Like this is Day freaking 1 and you're already throwing out innos?! Da heck?

You could be right but I take early posts giving innos or guilties very very lightly

[Raya36]

then again I'm arguing based on tone now, but mahi still seems to have a scummy push on Korina

Maybe they can confirm if their Korina read is serious or not too

[Raya36]

I tried for wolf twilight extender and didnt get it.

Evil

[Raya36]

viewtopic.php?f=5&t=59348&user_select%5 ... &start=200

Just read this

Are you seriously telling me Korina picks 1-shot deathproof cult leader over the busted cult roles they've come up with? Like, you can find stuff in there like ELITE CULT LEADER THAT LITERALLY CANNOT DIE BY ANY MEANS UNTIL DAY 4 AND CAN RECEUIT 2 PLAYERS PER NIGHT or something like that, and cultmafia roles which combine the mafia and cult factions and other ridiculous busted things

-mahi

I don't think a role like that would have been allowed and picking that as your other would have guaranteed them to not get that alignment

[Raya36]

You mean in GIM scum are more likely to act how they are?

Yes

Depending on their role I guess I partially agree

[Raya36]

I honestly just think Mahi vs Korina is a TvT fight

[Raya36]

I honestly just think Mahi vs Korina is a TvT fight

Are you in the "cultfia" with them? (one of the many roles by korina)

No but I kinda wish. Saying I hated cult last game was a lie. I actually do enjoy it

[Raya36]

Alright, so since I can see this town randomly voting us out and there's utility to claim this, here's our role:

Town Guesser

Each night, may submit 2

Guesses

of the exact roles of two separate players.
You will be told if 0, 1, or both of your guesses are correct. You will not be told which guess is correct for the case you get 1 correct.
You may not submit a guess for the same player more than once in the game.
For each correct guess, you receive a

One-Shot Doctor Heal.

Heals can be stacked, and multiple can be used in the same night along with the guesses.
You may self-target with a heal no more than once during the game.

We'll check Korina tonight (if we don't execute them), and one other volunteer who'd like to be confirmed

If you're okay with claiming and being confirmed, link us your role from the Grand Idee Thread

-mahi

Don't know what to think of this. This is a bold way to role hunt if you're scum.

I do have a concern. If you have a way to confirm if Korina is lying or not you wouldn't rush to the conclusion that they're scum and must be eliminated. You have the ability to confirm their claim so why would you push for an elimination. If I had this role I would keep quiet, guess Korina's role, and put some random obviously not correct guess for another player.

[Raya36]

Don't know what to think of this. This is a bold way to role hunt if you're scum.

@raya,

That's where im at. If they are scum, and it's a fake claim, the person on the OTHER end will know if they are lying eventually.


So I'm leaning town I guess.

Their play does not line up with their role at all. If they think someone who claimed their exact role is scum this is the exact perfect opportunity to get a guilty on that player. They may never get this opportunity again because the people they think are scum might not claim anything to be checked. If there role is true then they should absolutely not have said anything, checked Korina how I suggested, then looked for someone else to push because they can resolve Korina by the next day.

[Raya36]

@Vax:

so are you committing to not being a dayvig then? also even if korina wanted cult, they only had a 15% chance of getting it

if they wanted to maximize their chances at cult they'd pick town/mafia analogues

but I believe them that they went for broken unkillable roles for all 3

Yes, fine, we're not a dayvig. We picked someone who'd already claimed to stop any unnecessary claims from happening and to get us out of RVS

-mahi

@Raya: I'm not exaggerating when I say I'm very sure that Korina is scum/cult. I know all about Korina's cult obsessions and they've 100% lied this game
-mahi

Yes, I'm very aware Korina likes cult. And I'm very aware Korina is good at fakeclaiming. I was mafia with them last GIM. I don't think they're lying this game. And if they are you can apparently resolve that for us without us needing to flip someone who could be town.

[Raya36]

To be clear - Korina absolutely has to die *at some point* IMO due to the Miller claim. The question, I suspect, is really whether we want to trust their claim and leash them as a vigilante, or try and remove the doubt before they could potentially get out of hand with a cult if they're lying.

OK, let ME be clear too:

1- I am fully against yeeting Korina today
2- I am fully against leashing Korina tonight
3- Korina should shoot whomever he thinks is the best target
4- Korina will be sorted sooner than later by one role or another (I refuse to believe none of you picked an investigative)
5- If it does look like (a) The Town is losing, and (b) Korina's kills suck.. THEN I will consider yeeting him

I 100% agree with this

[Raya36]

I told you, I'm nk-proof.

I don't know why that would extend to the day, but I feel like you're lying about it anyways.

Here is the problem I have: Korina uses bad logic to explain why they are still alive from the fake shot, its just blatant lies. Why would anyone think that extends to the day? If they were town, or their "claimed" role, they would be reacting differently.... not using logic like "my nk-proof ability protected me in the daytime"

This is actually a good point. I still don't want Korina eliminated but something to keep in mind

[Raya36]

This is actually a good point. I still don't want Korina eliminated but something to keep in mind

I don't get it. You and temp lich agree its a good point, probably the most concrete one we have in the game so far... but you are unwilling to fade korina? Why?

I mean it doesnt have to be right this moment, but it should be at some point.

I just don't think this is how Korina acts if they actually got cult. Maybe a different scum but I'm still leaning town overall and while it's a good point it isn't stronger than my read

[Raya36]

Null

Everyone but the scum

Scum

Mahi
Raya


Fight me

Ok, let's fight

[Raya36]

Raya is town and in my cult, leave them alone. I recruited them n0. Also, VFP, if I recruit you tonight, will I die? Yes or no?

Thanks Korina <3

[Raya36]

@A50, I'm not planning on shooting tonight, because I wanna see how many kills we have, excluding me. At most, we can have literally six SKs, but more pragmatically speaking, we probably have Mafia + SK/WW. Not only that, but we have majority throughout most of the game, so unless we lose three townies tonight, I'm not gonna shoot until I'm certain someone will flip scum.

pedit:
I picked a dayvig, but that was my mafia pick.

ppedit:
Yes, I would, because I think picking NK-Immune Miller Vig is actually a really smart move on my end. You can eliminate the odds of me being SK entirely, because I obviously pick Cult, meaning I'm either BP scum, or actually telling the truth.

This just reads "look im doing towny things, and have a towny thought process", instead of doing what everyone else would do with a vig.... shoot someone you think is scum and shrug it off if they arent.

@GUIL

You may want to read the rules regarding multiple posts in a row. (really all the rules)

I haven't had the time to read all the rules, I signed up for a relax fun game where I didn't have to worry about over complicated rules that would require a lot of attention.

My mom is pending brain surgery mid of April and all the paperwork plus the gravity of the operation prevents me from taking on too strict games. Would you mind sharing with me the general idea of those rules? So I know and don't break them?

You also lose your vote the next day if you have over 20% of the posts just as an fyi

[Raya36]

@guil
Double posting is ok, but try not to.... multiple posting in a row is a no-no.

There are more, but those are the ones I noticed you breaking.

Would you mind sharing with me the general idea of those rules? So I know and don't break them?

tldr is if you chain post (3+) you might get a warning, if you have 20% of the total votes at eod you get a warning/penalty vote/something

@A50, I'm not planning on shooting tonight, because I wanna see how many kills we have, excluding me. At most, we can have literally six SKs, but more pragmatically speaking, we probably have Mafia + SK/WW. Not only that, but we have majority throughout most of the game, so unless we lose three townies tonight, I'm not gonna shoot until I'm certain someone will flip scum.

pedit:
I picked a dayvig, but that was my mafia pick.

ppedit:
Yes, I would, because I think picking NK-Immune Miller Vig is actually a really smart move on my end. You can eliminate the odds of me being SK entirely, because I obviously pick Cult, meaning I'm either BP scum, or actually telling the truth.

This just reads "look im doing towny things, and have a towny thought process", instead of doing what everyone else would do with a vig.... shoot someone you think is scum and shrug it off if they arent.

@GUIL

You may want to read the rules regarding multiple posts in a row. (really all the rules)

I haven't had the time to read all the rules, I signed up for a relax fun game where I didn't have to worry about over complicated rules that would require a lot of attention.

My mom is pending brain surgery mid of April and all the paperwork plus the gravity of the operation prevents me from taking on too strict games. Would you mind sharing with me the general idea of those rules? So I know and don't break them?

Double posting is okay, but posting three or more times in a row is heavily discouraged.

If you have a disproportionate amount of posts at the end of the Day phase, you may lose your vote the next day.

Oh thanks guys, that's good to know.

So if I'm catching up, it's better if I just post a wall. Got it

Oops, guess a lot of people beat me to that one. I need to adjust to wallposting, I think I've been forgetting that this game.

A lot of scum around!
Stop voting our leader!

Also Raya is already in the cult, and gets cookies.

It's a worthy investment

I honestly just think Mahi vs Korina is a TvT fight

Classic scum posting.

That said, town also can this it, so I second that notion.

Conclusion: I am Town and Raya is Scum for saying basically the exactly the same thing.

Impressive as always.

Did you actually say that first??

Don't know what to think of this. This is a bold way to role hunt if you're scum.

@raya,

That's where im at. If they are scum, and it's a fake claim, the person on the OTHER end will know if they are lying eventually.


So I'm leaning town I guess.

Their play does not line up with their role at all. If they think someone who claimed their exact role is scum this is the exact perfect opportunity to get a guilty on that player. They may never get this opportunity again because the people they think are scum might not claim anything to be checked. If there role is true then they should absolutely not have said anything, checked Korina how I suggested, then looked for someone else to push because they can resolve Korina by the next day.

Raya, please! I want to SR you here, and I can't do that with this kind of obv!towning. Please try to post scummy stuff to keep me happy. Thank you.

Maybe I'm Mahi's partner. Maybe I am being scummy

please don't fight, I want a peaceful game

Fighting is more fun

Null

Everyone but the scum

Scum

Mahi
Raya


Fight me

Ok, let's fight

Sure! What is your read on Mahi?

That's actually a tough question. I read the Korina and Mahi exchange as TvT. Mahi's push and actions felt too scummy to be scum in a sense and more like town messing around. But ever since that claim I'm putting Mahi more on the null and leaning scum area. I refuse to believe that claim was honest.

[Raya36]

I think Korina's reaction looks more normal if you take in-contest. This is how it really went:

actually fish have short lives and i have no time to waste for silence from our benefactor this game

dayvig: korina

- mahimahi

no, are you serious

please tell me you aren't serious right now

I'm going to wait to see if Ircher confirms it

If this is a fake dayvig, I'm voting to kill you.

@Ircher ???

-mahi

our shot went through according to Ircher

so Korina is bulletproof

why are you bulletproof, Korina

-mahi

Are you actually a dayvig mahi?

I told you, I'm nk-proof.

I don't know why that would extend to the day, but I feel like you're lying about it anyways.

the only way I see it as fake is if it's SvS theater. You really can't SR Korina and TR mahi based on this interaction (and especially so when Ircher had not intervened in between). I dunno why people think Korina's reaction was stramge when nothing had been confirmed by the mid yet nahi claimed mod told them the action went through. I mean, put yourself in Korina's shoes and tell me how you would have reacted differently.

This is very true. I'm definitely fine with leaving Korina as a town lean.

Yea, true, but I'd rather play carefully. I have a 100% correct shot rate as vigilante, because I've never played as vigilante, and I intend to keep it that way.

That's NOT a 100% shot rate. That's an unidentified percentage (zero divided by zero)

Spoiler:

Let's not go home, we'll catch the late train
I've got enough money to pay all the way
When the postman calls, he'll deliver the letter
I've explained everything; it's better that way
I think they heard a rumour
(Divided by, divided by) Or someone tipped them off
(Divided by, divided by) It's better to go sooner
(Divided by, divided by) Than call it all off
We'll catch a plane to New York, and a cab going down
Cross the bridges and tunnels, straight into town
Tomorrow morning we'll be miles away
On another continent and another day
Let's not go home
(Divided by, divided by) Or call it a day
(Divided by, divided by) You won't be alone
(Divided by, divided by) Let's run away
Someone spread a rumor
(Divided by, divided by zero, zero)
(Divided by, divided by) Better to go sooner
(Divided by, divided by) Let's run away
So why hang around for the deed to be done
You can give it all up for a place in the sun
When the postman calls we'll be miles away
On a plane to New York and another day
I think they heard a rumour
(Divided by, divided by) Or someone tipped them off
(Divided by, divided by) Better to go sooner
(Divided by, divided by) Than call it all off
Someone spread a rumour
(Divided by, divided by) And someone has to pay
(Divided by, divided by) Let's not go home
(Divided by, divided by) Let's run away
(Divided by, divided by) Let's not go home
(Divided by, divided by) Let's run away

shush, i can pretend I have a 100% shot rate because I've never taken a shot.

I'll count it as a 100% shot rate, cult leader

[Raya36]

I'm away for less than a day and 10 pages jees Louise.

First impressios is that you all talk ALOT.

Personally I don't believe a lot of the claims and it's Day 1 and soft claims/ roleclaiming Day 1 is honestly not be believed especially in a bastard set up.

I do have a few people that I'm leaning town with the way that they act and the way they are coming across to me but after all it is my first game with all of you and likewise with me. Becausr i could claim Jesus for all you know but I ain't got anything to back it up.

But for now VOTE: Korina Choo Choo

Who are you leaning town on?

I like Korina as much as the next person, but, they need voted out.

This is not "fear" of the possibility or anything, I know some of you are friends with Korina, but it's a game, and as I see it, Korina has got to go. I've posted my thoughts on it and I get agreement, but no votes, and it gets explained away (maybe another day, but I know them, someone even said "they deserve the win if they are cult" <--- Lol why? It's been pointed out its a possibility!, some of you are just roflcoptering asking to be recruited!)

Korina is today's fade. I'm sorry Korina, no hard feelings, it just is, waht it is.

I played with Korina as scum last game and I'm really not getting the same feeling from them

[Raya36]

I'm away for less than a day and 10 pages jees Louise.

First impressios is that you all talk ALOT.

Personally I don't believe a lot of the claims and it's Day 1 and soft claims/ roleclaiming Day 1 is honestly not be believed especially in a bastard set up.

I do have a few people that I'm leaning town with the way that they act and the way they are coming across to me but after all it is my first game with all of you and likewise with me. Becausr i could claim Jesus for all you know but I ain't got anything to back it up.

But for now VOTE: Korina Choo Choo

Who are you leaning town on?

I like Korina as much as the next person, but, they need voted out.

This is not "fear" of the possibility or anything, I know some of you are friends with Korina, but it's a game, and as I see it, Korina has got to go. I've posted my thoughts on it and I get agreement, but no votes, and it gets explained away (maybe another day, but I know them, someone even said "they deserve the win if they are cult" <--- Lol why? It's been pointed out its a possibility!, some of you are just roflcoptering asking to be recruited!)

Korina is today's fade. I'm sorry Korina, no hard feelings, it just is, waht it is.

I played with Korina as scum last game and I'm really not getting the same feeling from them

Really? How come? Make me see what im not seeing please.

Well one thing I've learned is Korina aims just to have fun in this type of game. So the claimed roles line up. They just want something fun or funny. Their secondary goal is winning. I can't be certain how much this differs between when they're scum or town but when they were mafia last game they came up with claims and gimmicks for the fun of it. We are getting claims again this game but I'm not seeing the same attitude and enthusiasm. Korina was really fighting for their survival last game after claiming survivor as mafia. That's what I'm seeing the difference as. This game Korina is still fighting but instead of primarily fighting for their survival, they're fighting that the person wanting to eliminate them is scum. Korina also really emphasized their disappointment with not getting cult last game. We aren't getting that to the same extent this game. I really don't think Korina is cult this game, I think cult!Korina plays more seriously and survivalistic although I don't have anything to back that up. Korina feels a lot more calm and natural too but that could honestly just be because we're lacking a fake all caps post restriction. Not to mention I think Korina learned last game that claims can come back to bite you and also knows that we'll be paying extra attention to their claims after getting away with survivor for so long last game despite evidence. Claiming vig is just asking for a hard time when no shot can correspond to them (unless of course they're a scum vig).

Anyway, that's my Korina brain-dump.

@RAYA and A50, Why does A50's "Context post" seem better? I need a deeper explaination.

I see that you're saying it looks like Korina got caught and is trying to make up an excuse, and maybe I'm wrong here but I think based on last game Korina is better at fake claims than that and wouldn't come up with a reason so obviously untrue. With context, it reads as a confused townie to me.

i gave up after players like vfp were voting us while townreading us because "cult memes"

At least I'm trying to be vocal on you being town, right? And supported your checking 2 players to prove yourself on the get go.
I'm not sure what you are worried of, you won't be today's lim.

I'm also the only player here that we know who can confirm if Korina is cult leader or not.
So sure, I'm having a little fun here, but my reads are serious (and correct)

oki that's fair

i'm hoping at least 1 more person claims at some point so we can check two players tonight

-mahi

More proof that Mahi's claim is not true.

485 is a towny post, I honestly don't get why the town wants to lime Korina who acts towny and is genuinely upset he didn't roll Cult and says that inthread.

I've always played with Miller roles as "lim before LiLo" and unconfirmable vigs as "leash or prevent killing (be that by setting up a perma roleblock/jail or elim). The combination of the two, on Korina, known cultlover? Probably just my inherent biases against their claimed role combination, but it makes me fairly sure that slot can't be allowed to go to endgame, and I'll stand on that hill till I die. Even if we just ask them to stick to a pool we agree on in the event they do shoot, I'd be a lot happier. FWIW I'm leaning town on the slot based on the posting and the relative promptness of the miller claim, even if 308 was a bit LAMIST, but I don't think I'll be confident enough in the read to lock it as things stand.

This feels town

You're all so paranoid of fishing, it's ridiculous. I'm not some fisherman who's camped by the docks fishing for the best trout you'll ever see in your lives. I'm a scientist who's mixing elements and fixing chemical leaks for this town.

There's probably at least 3 different scum factions in this game, you think I'm just trying to fish town when scum need to kill each other too? You all should eat some pasta and learn that not every dish needs fish inside. Like yes, fish and chips is decent, but so is some mac and cheese.

-mahi

look I can claim since I've already softed but I want a second opinion first before I hardclaim

Don't claim

[Raya36]

I need to what to now?

I'm just easing my way into a brand new site and a bastard game. Ya'll talk alot you see.

You said you're leaning town on a few people. Who?

[Raya36]

I'm not pulling the same thing as last time Nono. The same thing would be CLAIMING THAT I'M TOAD FROM MARIO, A SURVIVOR WITH A POST RESTRICTION WHERE I MUST TALK IN ALL CAPS OR I DIE.
I also don't like your insinuation that you *know* I'm scum again, when I know for a fact I'm a townie.
I would honest to god shoot you tonight, but a bullet goes to Vax tonight. You get shot tomorrow unless you flip. Sorry Nono, but I genuinely can't read you, and I want you out.
As for town roles that I pick, I literally said I submitted NK-Immune Miller Vig, or I would've submitted a Miller role just because I think it's funny. Alternatively, barring any of those, I would've submitted a vigi, because we know there are a lot of townies in this game, and I have a substantially higher chance of shooting not town, considering people can pick an IC, or clear themselves with town roles.

This reads as genuine frustration (although to be fair Korina was genuinely frustrated people were going after them as a survivor even though they were really mafia last game)

Wrt me not being as disappointed, it's because I know I can be culted this time. I'll just say it now, you can practically eliminate my chances of being non-cult scum entirely. If I were to be non-cult scum, I'd have acted in a very similar way to how I did in TL's GIM, or outright try to bus my teammates to enable myself to be culted—although, like I said, I doubt anyone besides me submitted cult. Not to mention, I literally submitted mafia one-shot dayvig treestump, so it'd be obvious if I was scum. All of my picks, beyond my cult pick, were actually vigs with something funny attached to them. My town pick has miller, which I think is personally a really funny role in the first place. My scum pick was a treestump, which meant I'd flip at the start of the game, and then I get to threaten everyone with a dayvig, which I think is funny, and then after using it, continue to spam the thread.

I honestly think Korina tells the truth. If I'm wrong feel free to shame me after since I literally just played this set-up with them as scum.

this is the first game where I have actually wanted to vote no lynch

Let's not do this. There's still plenty of time for D1 anyway

[Raya36]

this is the first game where I have actually wanted to vote no lynch

Let's not do this. There's still plenty of time for D1 anyway

I've thought about it more and I actually think this is the best strategy given the claims + what I know myself

Can you explain why given the claims?

[Raya36]

I'm leaning town on you. If I find I'm able to properly townread you I might consider it, but for now from my perspective an elimination is best

[Raya36]

I swear your a jester Temp

oh wow never heard of that flavor of OMGUS before

@everyone - your 3 person PoE, danke schön.

Mahi, Guillo, not sure who else yet

we can have this day over in 6 hours if we want

VOTE: no elim

only need 5 more votes

So maybe you have good reason for a no elim, but why advertise ending the day early too. Town has 2 strong powers, ability to discuss during the day, and ability to eliminate...

biggest problem this place has is modern towns getting out-posted into apathy and hoping our PRs lead us to water and teach us peristalsis.

this isn't a normal game; we can lean on power roles

Definitely disagree. We can't reply on being able to mechanically solve a GIM game. Especially since it's bastard.

[Raya36]

I swear your a jester Temp

oh wow never heard of that flavor of OMGUS before

@everyone - your 3 person PoE, danke schön.

Mahi, Guillo, not sure who else yet

we can have this day over in 6 hours if we want

VOTE: no elim

only need 5 more votes

So maybe you have good reason for a no elim, but why advertise ending the day early too. Town has 2 strong powers, ability to discuss during the day, and ability to eliminate...

biggest problem this place has is modern towns getting out-posted into apathy and hoping our PRs lead us to water and teach us peristalsis.

this isn't a normal game; we can lean on power roles

Definitely disagree. We can't reply on being able to mechanically solve a GIM game. Especially since it's bastard.

Why am I with Mahi in your PoE, when he is in my PoE. Doesn't “the enemy of your enemy is your friend” apply here? It should?

I don't do associations without flips. But I do acknowledge I'm wrong about one of you.
I have you in my scumpool mainly because 480 looked like you were trying to find stuff to scumread, rather than genuinely scumreading VFP. I also really disagree with your take on Korina and I think Korina could appear to be an easier miselim considering the playstyle similarities on the surface level between this and last game

[Raya36]

wow you made them lower lol

Guess that's what you get for complaining

[Raya36]

@everyone - your 3 person PoE, danke schön.

Guillotina, Samantha, Nono.

Why am I with Mahi in your PoE, when he is in my PoE. Doesn't “the enemy of your enemy is your friend” apply here? It should?

So you're Mafia and forget that there's probably 3rd party's.
Thanks for confirming this.

Also, Mahi town.

I caught that from Guillo earlier in another post too. Wouldn't scum be more aware of potential third parties or another team though?

[Raya36]

I mean wouldn't scum!Guillo be more aware that there could be more groupscum or third party since he's scum yet still scumhunting. Whereas town know this but ultimately are just scum hunting regardless of which type of scum they are

[Raya36]

nono's iso has too little content for me to judge

Agreed

A50 is probably scum.
We are not doing a no lim.

This guy is scum and fuck your no elimination shit Samantha. I rescind my offer to sheep you.

VOTE: VFP

Anything that opposes his point of view is "scum" to him.

who cares if he is he claimed n1 confirmable

there's more than enough time to get rid of him tomorrow if he lied

there's no reason to lie about that as mafia unless there's an angle to hide your alignment, which can still be caught with night actions

also going back on a double voter the same day you give it is bad form

Exactly. No need to eliminate anyone who has claimed to be confirmable in the near feature. That's anti-town

Sometimes I look back at my life and wonder to myself... how did it all come to this? All the ups, all the downs... the good times, and the bad times. I've been through a lot in life and it all led to this one moment, it all led to me rolling shellyc in a game of mafia.

At first I was confused. "

shellyc? Well, I'm not shellyc, so what does that role even do?

" Well, I shortly found out once Ircher put on his doctor's coat and started operating on me. I am now a perfect replica of shellyc, in mind, body, and most importantly, mafia skills. That's right, I am multiaccounting in this game... I just couldn't stop myself. I won't say how many of you are just alts of mine, but... I just want to say, I'm truly sorry.

-mahi

???

VOTE: Guillo

[Raya36]

Why am I with Mahi in your PoE, when he is in my PoE. Doesn't “the enemy of your enemy is your friend” apply here? It should?

VOTE: Guillotina

W A T.

What what? Raya scum reads mahi, i do too, but she is voting me after i called them a possible team earlier.

Your vote should be somewhere else, you know me.

Associations aren't the same when there's potential third party or multiple groupscum

[Raya36]

Two questionable votes on this wagon, VFP and Raya. No context provided with either.

My reason for Guillo is in that post and in others before it

Also we still have a lot of time left. There's no need to eliminate yet. Let's give Guillo time to give reads as well as he just asked. UNVOTE: for now

[Raya36]

This is a good example for why I don't think Guillo is town:

If I had to guess right now.
mahimahi+ - WW
Flea - town
Raya36 - scum
TemporalLich - town
Guillotina - cultist
Korina - town
Almost50 - town
KidAmn - town
Nono - SK
samantha97 - town
CaptainS - scum
Vaxkiller - scum

How does he come up with a read on me as a Cultist if there is no guarantee or signs that there is such a role?
How possible is it that there is a cult leader role in a 13 players set up? Why would town worried about a slim chance that there is a cult leader when there is scum to catch?

VFP is also yet to explore all of those town reads. There is no way an uninformed town has so many town reads so early in the game.

First, this just looks like he's trying to find something to scumread. That list was obviously not meant to be taken too seriously. Read as a low info early guess to see how close he can get to being right. The fact that Guillo is reading so much into it and trying to push the angle that VFP must be informed is scummy.

my gut says that flea is hard null as 136 feels NAI

I'm not sure what would prompt Flea to lie there. But I think it was a

good town response

so far.

Possible TMI on Flea. Does he know Flea is town?

VFP is saying that as in it reads as a good town response. He's not slipping and saying that town!Flea made a good response.

Yeah, I'm basically confirmed tonight or I'm gone tomorrow.

Are you trying to bait visits upon you?

If you actually think VFP is baiting visits from what was said then you must think VFP is town and baiting scum to visit. If that's the case why would you even point it out instead of just letting the bait work.

this is the first game where I have actually wanted to vote no lynch

This is actually one of the first posts I like from you.
But no,

we need a lim

here.

We need a lim? No, we need to lim scum, the way you are saying it here is that any lim is good and that mentality comes from anti-town parties.

This is a really bad interpretation of what VFP said. People say we need a lim all the time. It doesn't mean we need any lim. It means we try to lim scum and if we're wrong that's ok because we still get info and we tried.

---------

Scum team if VFP is actually town.

RAYA
mahimahi
temporal
KidAmn

Can I get a short case on each of them? Like, one of them (I won't say which) is even higher than Korina on my own scale of townie-ness (that's to say if that slot is Scum I'm screwed)

How to explain this... I don't remember why I scum read

KidAmn

anymore, I know I picked up on something but I forgot about it while I was defending myself trying to prevent my elimination. (It's embarrassing I know).

My read on

Raya

has changed, I town lean her for now, the reasons are that she gave me a detail explanation of why she townreads Korina which made me look into his wiki to realize a few things. Raya also unvoted to give a chance to out reads at a point where as scum it would be just as easy to maintain her vote to get me chopped, half the playerlist was pile wagoning and it would be easy to wait for someone to just hammer me, but she didn't, she unvoted (i realized this upon looking into her ISO an hour ago), giving me a breather to out my suspicions and town up. Thank you.

I was scum reading

Temporal

for his "resignation" comment on me in post 513 which i replied to in post 517
I thought that such comment couldn't organically come from a player with his experience, again as I stated in post 517.
I also didn't like his comment that even if I was mech clear town he'd still want to yeet me in post 678

However, I think no scum would admit that so openly. I mean, he could have been power wolfing but I don't think a wolf risks looking bad like that when people start reading ISOs to solve slots. Also he defends elimination on Day 1, which is something I agree on, I also think that a chop would give us more info as opposed to Samantha's proposition to not eliminate, or Korina's stance on yeeting anyone as long as it is not him or Vax, which I find rather mercurial, if not scummy altogether. The last point is that if Korina is scum and Temporal also is, I don't think he'd go out of his way to defend him, I think he genuinely believes in his read on Korina which is fair regardless of me thinking he is wrong or right about that read.

mahimahi

is scum read for their continuous attempts at role fishing, they did it to Korina and they tried to hustle me into claiming my role. I'm also guessing he and Korina are scum but not necessarily from the same faction.

I still think

Korina

is most likely scum. I looked into his wiki to look up his town games and although it is true that he pulls out fake claims as town, he's felt more determine to solve in those games as opposed to how she played in Temporal's grand idea game and here, where all he's done is talking about mech stuff, his alleged chosen miller role and just creating chaos without attempting to solve. I'm failing to see what Raya and Temporal see when town reading Korina here.
Korina says that he can confirm himself by going through her vig by calling out his shots, but he can do it by carrying out the factional kill, all he gotta do is kill a townie, say that he called out the shot but he was terribly wrong about shooting a townie. I must confess i might be tunneled onto him for his performance in our last game where he randed scum and convinced a a good chunk of players that he was a survivor 3p and not giving him a proper chance, but I'm willing to give him the same chance that town has given me by yeeting someone else that I scumread today.

Our contract has expired Samantha, i just realized I'm not very good at sheeping people. UNVOTE: Korina

With all of the above said, this post reads very town. I'm suspicious enough that I'm still considering this being a survivalistic scum post, but the read on me was good, I agree with the Lich read, I agree with the mahi read although it is definitely an easier mostly universal read this game, and the analysis on Korina was good and I agree that the vig shot isn't a 100% way to clear Korina but I do have a town meta-read on them.

My read on Korina is purely a metaread - I don't think Korina is acting the same way as in TL's GIM

Definitely agree with this. Korina is quite good at manipulation so I'll need more than meta later on but for now it's enough for me to give a D1 townread.

[Raya36]

1) First quote. The moment someone procures a read list, I do not take it as a joke so, I found it odd that someone would post a read list of people so early in the game. I was not looking for reasons to scum read VFP, I just thought it was scummy plain and simple.

2) Well to me it looked like a slip and ive been playing this game for two decades and I often catch them on Day 1 more than any other day. But maybe I'm just tunneled.

3) Ok. Fair. Maybe I'm just deathtunneled onto VFP, I'll step back and try to start reading the thread without a tunnel.

4) A healthy amount of skepticism is good.

1) Understandable but based on context I don't believe it was serious. Not really a joke, just a for fun this is my based off nothing guess. That's my interpretation at least.

2) I think you're just tunneled honestly. I say stuff like that all the time. To me "a good town response" = "this response is good and reads town". I don't think scum would be so unaware to announce someone they know is town as town like that.


Going to put Guillo in my null pile now. I'm willing to give the benefit of the doubt and say he could really just be town tunneled on VFP

[Raya36]

VOTE: mahimahi
the rolefishing, the claim that does not align with their play as I explained earlier

That's E-2

[Raya36]

VOTE: mahimahi

might as well jump off Guillo as I like 783

still scummy but I had overestimated my SR on guillo

VOTE: mahimahi

VOTE: mahimahi
As previously stated, rolefishing hard with the promise of totally getting a bunch of doc shots out of it, you guys + I believe this helps sort what was, I'm fairly certain, not a TvT situation with Korina at the start of the day.

Ew

Not that I'm complaining but why am I not ew?

[Raya36]

rolefishing does not come from scum 80% of the time for the simple reason that it looks scummy for obvious reasons. Scum avoids doing things that look scummy. Especially in a game like this where you need to out survive 2+ other scum factions

it comes from town who has good reason to want to know people's roles based on their own role

but I don't really mind anymore. I've had a change of heart and I crave ascension. Ascension from this game, and to a greater plane of existence. Please place the two remaining votes on my mahi and release me from this absyall realm. I love you all.

-mahi

You can't explain why your play doesn't match your role though

[Raya36]

What are your reads Mahi?

[Raya36]

I looked into the GIM thread and there was only one role that involved light and a protect and it matched but idk why anyone would choose it. If it's that role than it doesn't confirm anything about Mahi

[Raya36]

I looked into the GIM thread and there was only one role that involved light and a protect and it matched but idk why anyone would choose it. If it's that role than it doesn't confirm anything about Mahi

huh?

I was just basing it off the flavour for mahi's "elimination". It said they were protected by a bright light. So I checked the GIM thread for protects involving light. I found a light demon.

[Raya36]

I'll need to think on the Korina guilty thing. I'm inclined to believe Vax because I don't see any motivation as scum to fake a guilty. But I still feel ok about my meta analysis.

[Raya36]

But why would Vax lie about that

[Raya36]

But that still makes no sense. He doesn't need to go after you like this and then guarantee getting eliminated next if you flip town

[Raya36]

Scum!Vax doesn't die regardless though? He could just keep quiet and go with you were roleblocked

[Raya36]

Town that think Vax is town or that think you're scum maybe

[Raya36]

Going back through again since I skimmed really quick the first time

I checked korina and they are cult.

VAX I'M A FUCKING MILLER, OF COURSE I FLIPPED CULT.

So I asked about how the miller role Korina claims would be treated by a rolecop. If Vax is truthful in being a number cop what's being claimed by Vax lines up with the answer given.

idk what's the angle for accusing someone of something that gets proven when lynched so early in the game? sacrificing 1 mafia member to get rid of the nk immune?

My thoughts exactly.

idk what's the angle for accusing someone of something that gets proven when lynched so early in the game? sacrificing 1 mafia member to get rid of the nk immune?

Vax knows he's been caught by my shot, and Mahi goes down with them, so they're trying to get rid of me in the process because I claimed miller.

This doesn't actually make much sense because Vax could be a town bulletproof for example. Not getting killed by a vig shot doesn't equal scum.

Yes, that was my third pick; however, I'm NK-Immune Miller Vig. I appear guilty

to any investigative. My actual role number is 6499, which is, you guessed it, within my ISO, because I couldn't be bothered to search elsewhere.

I SENT IN ONE-SHOT DEATHPROOF CULT LEADER, AND DIDN'T GET IT, I'M ANGRY ABOUT IT, DON'T REMIND ME I DIDN'T ROLL CULT

I missed this on my first skim but this is important. Korina got caught in a lie here.

You're also claiming to have checked a claimed miller, which makes zero sense to me.

If I had that kind of investigative I would've investigated you too to be fair

VOTE: Korina
Sorry Korina, I really think you're cult here. Hope there's no hard feelings if I'm right

[Raya36]

Good question. A nono kill doesn't make sense from korina because korina is supposedly cult. Maybe scum trying to frame korina to get rid of cult/NK-immune? Neither of those possibilities would be good for scum.
Nono didn't really express any other reads so that's my best guess.

[Raya36]

Yes, I lied about my third pick because I changed it last minute before going to bed, and waking up for work the next day. So what? The fact that I got so many votes so quickly makes me think scum is trying to push this.

Scum probably would want to push cult

[Raya36]

@raya, town rbing me makes zero sense unless it’s Vax. We can afford for me to misshoot n1, so rbing me on n1 to prevent the misshoot makes no sense

But my point about vax maybe being a bulletproof for example in this context could be true. So it's odd you assumed he is scum and role blocking you.
Pretty confident you're cult

[Raya36]

I’m not cult. Scum would want to push me regardless because I can’t be killed at night.
Also, Vax can’t be town bp, because he’d have claimed he was bp by now.

Yeah so the point about scum pushing this doesnt mean anything because its nai

[Raya36]

VOTE: Vakkiller

I can tell you now that Vaxkiller is lying.

All I'm gonna say is that Korina culted someone... and vfp sounds a lot like that person

Thank you to whoever saved us? You are truly blessed

We guessed for Korina's role and Raya with something random and 0 of our guesses were correct, ergo, Korina is lying

VOTE: Korina

hehe and you thought you could get away with it when you tried to poorly counterwagon us, Korina. Well,

crime

cults never pay

Flea, you're still on the deathlist but we'll deal with you later

Pedit: oh? what's the info, VFP?

-mahi

Still don't believe this. I thought you were supposed to send in 3 guesses. Not 2.

@Anyone voting for Vax

: Vax claimed the exact role that Korina picked. He didn't claim Korina was the cult role that they originally claimed to have picked. So how does Vax lie about that and get it right besides that Vax is telling the truth.

@A50's "crazy stuff" 936

: First see the above thing I wrote for anyone voting Vax. Vax couldn't possibly guess Korina's true pick without them at least telling the truth about their role unless I'm missing something. So I'm going off the assumption that Vax has a true guilty on Korina, and they aren't aligned together.

I don't know why Korina gave in ad admitted to that being their pick. Maybe they were worried they wouldn't be able to push the Vax is lying idea. Or maybe they were worried someone else (like Mahi) also investigated them.

I didn't think about Vax being a ww. So that's a good observation. It's very possible Vax tells the truth as a ww (if that role exists) and actually it makes sense, because why claim and out yourself as an investigative without trying to push it first as town. Makes sense if Vax sees only 1 kill (presumably theirs) and thinks it's safe to out and get cult eliminated. I could see Mahi being a partner too but a bit odd for both of them on a team together to associate and team up like this in thread. Your theory that Vax was 1 shot governor doesn't really make sense, because again, how did he know what Korina's actual pick was.

I don't think Vax was recruited. Pretty sure that's just VFP with his claim (951).

I'm going to assume Vax is truthful regardless of alignment because everyone but cult wants cult gone. I'm going to then assume Korina is cult, and recruited VFP is trying to save Korina. And the attempt makes a lot of sense in that position.

@Vax being caught lying

: Why does scum!Vax lie and say their role is what mahi claimed. There is 0 benefit to that and scum don't lie about things that can be proven wrong with just a quick iso search.

Once hammer hits, hammers hit. It's just extended twilight now I think

And here I thought we finally escaped twilight

I tried culting Vax. It didn’t work. Nobody claimed to have RB’d me, so he’s groupscum.

Well now that I see this you can ignore almost everything above but I spent a lot of time writing all that so it's getting posted anyway. There's stuff on Vax up there that's still relevant though.

I think Korina lies about targeting Vax. Still pretty convinced VFP is cult and Korina is just trying to give them a chance and creating suspicion for our potentially town investigative.

[Raya36]

Mahi, who was your third target last night?

[Raya36]

VOTE: End Day

Feel pretty good with the info we've got for today

[Raya36]

Still pretty sure Korina culted VFP

[Raya36]

If Vax flips Town then VFP is lying (about having tracked Vax to CaptainS) and we would have caught another anti-Town in VFP.

Wouldn't it make more sense to flip VFP. Less risk in losing a town tracker vs losing a town rolecop. Plus there's a good chance VFP is who Korina curled and that's why he defended Korina. I mean, why does a tracker even target Vax who was supposedly getting vigged by Korina. Doesn't make any sense.

[Raya36]

Culted not curled ??

[Raya36]

At this point I think Raya may have been recruited.

Spoiler:

[Raya36]

To be clear from my point of view I definitely believe Vax's result whether it comes from town or scum Vax. So when someone comes in and says Vax is lying which then invalidates the result on Korina, it really looks to me like that person was culted and is taking a desperate attempt to save their cult leader because they haven't got much to lose

[Raya36]

It makes sense to want to give the person you culted a chance

[Raya36]

My two possibilities are

1) VFP was culted by Korina. Korina and VFP coordinated claims to make Vax sound bad and give VFP a chance

2) Korina and VFP tell the truth although those actions don't make that much sense to me

Maybe I'm just tunneled on the first one and wrong

[Raya36]

Raya doesn't strike me as town however.

Why don't I strike you as town though?

[Raya36]

pedit: Your D1 and D2 game don't match, you're in the PoE with Vax and VFP, and your elim will easily resolve VFP

That was at me?

[Raya36]

Ok then there's a couple things I don't understand.

Why doesn't my D1 and D2 match?

How would my flip resolve VFP? I flip town and then what? You believe what I say a little more even though I could just be wrong?

[Raya36]

1) The tone change might have been confidence? I feel pretty good about my reads when they're more or less mechanically proven and my focus was Korina/Vax and then VFP who I felt confident about

2) I wasn't culted. I don't draw attention to Korina culting someone if I'm that person. Especially when I could've just chosen to go with Korina culted Vax and there is no cult left. And maybe for the same reasons VFP isn't cult either if he would play the same way as me.

[Raya36]

Wouldn't it make more sense to flip VFP. Less risk in losing a town tracker vs losing a town rolecop.

Could you PLEASE read the game?? Vax is a claimed TWO SHOT NUMBER COP. Tomorrow, IF he's still alive he is effectively a VT (assuming he is Town to begin with).

Yeah you're right. Then I guess Vax would make more sense mechanically as of current info

[Raya36]

Just gonna say I called it

[Raya36]

Yeah, I want to wait for his result before I start pressing too much there.

TL, why does the NK lead to vax being groupscum?

[Raya36]

The game was a upick though with alignments randomized. I doubt there was even an attempt to balance this game

[Raya36]

This is a uPick but I think cards retain alingments

Yeah and I definitely agree Vax could be scum for that, I just don't think him having a strong role can really be a factor for making a mechanical read this game

[Raya36]

Yeah, the more I think about it the more that kill makes sense. That eliminates all the suspicion about the cult stuff including the mechanical guilty of Korina not being able to cult him

[Raya36]

I'd also like to know who Vax targeted

[Raya36]

I'd be fine knowing just the target for now too

[Raya36]

Nope, Cap'n should absolute not claim.

Why no? In fact I thinking everyone should full claim.

definitely no

[Raya36]

Now it just feels like you're rolefishing

VOTE: Vax

[Raya36]

Vax: Asks directly for peoples roles.

Raya: Wow that kinda sounds like role fishing, ima vote you for that.

Ok and when that got shut down you immediately posted something that could draw out night action claims or someone mentioning their role isn't useless

[Raya36]

But this game isn't balanced properly, right? Since it's a upick. Scum can be anything and town can be anything. Scum could even claim honestly if there are town versions of their role. I don't see how a mass claim could be useful at this point of the game. I only see it giving scum insight on who to night kill and town very little advantage

[Raya36]

I'm back! Sorry for the wall

How the hell does Night kill analyses implicate me???? Because I'm alive?

Actually yeah, a claimed role and alignment cop shouldn't survive the night

Vax vote Guillotina with me

Have you forgotten his fake reaction to thinking he was hammered? That reaction never ever comes from town or someone reacting genuinely. He's acum with a guilty on him in my books, and my book is gold embroided with a hard cover and papyrus pages

-mahi

I don't really know why you're asking prob scum Vax to join you but I for sure agree with the rest of this. (Coming back to this, his posting around his case and after reads towny so idk what to make of that reaction)

@raya36 @TemporalLich @KidAmn

What are your opinions on CaptainS performance so far in this game?
What do you think about my case on him?

I do agree with many of your points on CaptainS (mainly about holding back thoughts and lurking) but for the ones related to not being a newbie: I do want to give the benefit of the doubt for him being new to the forum just because I do know how hard it can be to adjust. Before I joined mafiascum I played games that were very fast paced or games that relied on mechanics and to an extent luck to solve. Idk what his homesite is but for me that was a hard adjustment and I felt like a newbie even when I wasn't.

My case is waht I'm going to call the Korina case. Who chooses THAT.

Town doesnt choose un yeetable, scum does.

Absolutely agree

1. mahimahi : Scum
2. Flea the Magician : Town
3. Raya36 : Town
4. TemporalLich : Town
5. Guillotina : Scum or Neutral
6. Korina : Scum
7. Almost50 : Town
9. KidAmn : Town
11. samantha97 : Strong Town
12. CaptainS : Defo Town
13. Vaxkiller : ?

These are pretty safe reads

Alright kids, spot the glaring error that proves CaptainS isn't reading or even really paying attention to this game, and therefore likely not playing to a town wincon (bonus points if you can tell me WHY they're likely not playing to a town wincon).

Go on, I'll wait.

Korina
I'm too tired for bonus points

CaptainS's new read list feels Town

Disagree, they townread everyone except the common scumreads and didn't even take a stance on Vax

Still i wished she contributed more cause she will not ride on that townread forever.

reminder:

I'm mafia

9523

Interesting role choice. I'm not really sure the benefit but I guess if you know you should keep that to yourself

I'll thank her very much for being town's best scum aligned friend, because seriously, no scum is gonna do that for a townie.

You're very welcome

Town lean you (Temporal)

I'm also tinfoiling about the possibility that both Vax and you could be a team doing scum theater with your claims but if this was the case, you'll deserve a fucking Oscar.

Putting this in my iso because that would be really funny especially with Vax saying stuff like "I hope you know what I'm doing". Also this is a townie thought. Scum does not come up with something like this for a push

i had submitted VFP and Temporal as targets too but i decided to trust Raya's townread on him and i had second thoughts on Temporal so idecided tomgive him another chance.

Yay!
Guill's claim matches play. I'll townread him now

I'm reading Vax as town based on play and scum based on NKA and I trust my read more than my NKA skills so Vax is a very sight townlean with suspicion

VOTE: mahi

[Raya36]

The grenade bounce has me scratching my head a bit. Just mainly because i don't know how actions are processed on here and how they are worded.

What are peoples thoughts on this in particular?

I don't see why scum!Guillo would claim that when it's uncommon to happen.

Basically if you were to target someone and your action fails (roleblocked for example), you don't get a retry. You just lose the shot.

[Raya36]

The grenade bounce has me scratching my head a bit. Just mainly because i don't know how actions are processed on here and how they are worded.

What are peoples thoughts on this in particular?

I don't see why scum!Guillo would claim that when it's uncommon to happen.

Basically if you were to target someone and your action fails (roleblocked for example), you don't get a retry. You just lose the shot.

[Raya36]

You got me

Why does it confirm that?

[Raya36]

You should be ashamed

[Raya36]

Yeah, exactly my point. Doesn't make sense for you as scum to claim something illogical. Although I a vanilla commuter role would also eat up your action. So my bet is you're town, and there's some other role going on that caused that to happen. It is Grand Idea.

[Raya36]

That was to Guillo after my post

[Raya36]

You got me

Why does it confirm that?

Just my reads on his behaviour the fact it is so up and down. It's just inconsistent between good and bad town play. That's why I'm unsure on it and i feel my vote is best there at the moment. I am prepared to move it if other people are wannting the elim on somebody else.

How does the info you were referencing confirm that

[Raya36]

Confirms my vote on where i want to place it today. Sorry it was really badly worded.

Not on any info /any stuff because like i said i have no night information whatsoever.

Apologies for the poor phrasing.

I see

I'll claim I targeted CaptainS last night...


OOOOOO.

OOOOOOOOOOOOOOO.

but...

*deep thinking*

Guillo where's your fullclaim/hardclaim again?

OOOOOOOH

[Raya36]

Guillo, you have reason to believe someone else altered your role?

[Raya36]

If Mahi was town they would tell us they can't be elimed ever before we eliminated them either time so we didn't waste our elims.

[Raya36]

Did Vax end up claiming his second investigation?

[Raya36]

Sounds like a weird version of a redirector

[Raya36]

Can we agree that mahi is scum because town would warn that we're wasting our elim both times?

[Raya36]

Sounds like a weird version of a redirector

A redirector? what? What makes you think is a redirector? hmm?

A redirector does not block actions. I got my grenade back, it means i either got blocked or commuted/Jailkept/Aliened etc, or my targets were.

A weird version that sends it back to you to use again. Redirector isn't the right role at all but the closest I could think of to what I was thinking. I don't know why anyone would choose a role that roleblocks but gives the shot back though?

[Raya36]

Sounds like a weird version of a redirector

A redirector? what? What makes you think is a redirector? hmm?

A redirector does not block actions. I got my grenade back, it means i either got blocked or commuted/Jailkept/Aliened etc, or my targets were.

And this case I don't think my target was because I did the test and I targeted someone I never hinted and I still got my grenade back, so they are targeting me for sure.

oh ok, good to know. So there's somebody targeting you then

[Raya36]

Might as well

So does anyone know if Vax ever outed his N2 target or result?

[Raya36]

So does anyone know if Vax ever outed his N2 target or result?

yes it was temporal as an airplane something

Right, thanks!
Wonder why scum killed Vax then. He was vanilla then

[Raya36]

also anyway lets massclaim I guess since our pool is good

I've been roleblocking you guillotina sry, I'm a town naturalist (which I thought was obvious and I expected to eat the nk), aka an omniroleblocking omnidoctor lol

my role was altered like I said, so I'm the only one who knows exactly how it works, but you'll see tomorrow anyway

Why would you roleblock Guillo who was going to kill the unelimable scum?

VOTE: Samantha

[Raya36]

Right, thanks!
Wonder why scum killed Vax then. He was vanilla then

can you roleclaim pls

this is the only safe day to do it cause I'm gonna eat the nk

How would you know that

[Raya36]

UNVOTE:
Why would you choose that role?

[Raya36]

That makes sense then. Seems the role only exists in town too.

I'll hold off my claim until everyone else checks in and says what they think of mass claiming. I'm still against it but if the majority want it I'll accept I'm wrong and claim

[Raya36]

So I'm considering lich, sam, and guillo all conftown and mahi confscum

[Raya36]

That leaves A50, captain, flea, and kid. That's pretty good pool for the last of the scum

[Raya36]

Sam isn't stopping our elimination are they?

[Raya36]

Ok, so we keep you. Town killing roles target who we think is scum (mahi or whoever else later on). Hopefully we actually prevent the next nk and get our kill instead

[Raya36]

Wait, it doesn't stop factional kills, I misread

[Raya36]

No offense sam but your role is very anti town. You just turned all our killing roles vanilla. Sure, it probably saved a townie or 2 but now we can't kill scum at night and we lost a lot of power

[Raya36]

also whoever silenced guillotina is scum

Wait did I miss this?

[Raya36]

You have a point actually. If Guillo is our only killing role and Guillo dies then we have no way to kill Mahi

VOTE: Sam

[Raya36]

What do you mean it's not up to them?

[Raya36]

It's saying that if there are two factional kills only one happens. They still each choose. They just don't know whose will go through. That's even if there are two groups

[Raya36]

My suspicion now is drifting towards TL. First iff, his "benign 3P" proposition is scummy enough it could be seen as a link to mahi from my PoV. ALSO, him promoting this "Alien" thing is scummy AF. I did search for "Prince" and I got a few results, and one was 8261. Now how did he miss that?

Finally, "A50 is most likely the deepwolf" with no explanation or case doesn't even make sense to me, and it feels more like "I suspect A50 has pocked something tricky at night, so I'd rather lim him by day".

You sure about this

[Raya36]

I'm not really counting mahi as a faction since it's highly unlikely there are more aliens

[Raya36]

I am not sure about mahi being a Prince. I was making a case on TL. mahi is SCUM. Period. What their role is? I dunno. What their "exact" alignment is? No idea.

I searched for Prince because TEMPORAL is persistent that this is mahi's role, so I wanted to see what he'd get if he searched for "prince" (and not -say- L-proof or Death-proof).

skim through D4 again for mentions of TL

[Raya36]

Vax cleared Lich. You're pushing conftown

[Raya36]

I meant D4. We talked about it and labeled Lich as clear so I figured that'd be quicker to find

[Raya36]

We yeet Samantha and i target someone in our PoE and we let scum take care of the Alien, if not im happy with the Alien winning as long as it's not scum that wins.

the reason why temporal wanted me dead was because of mahimahi's potential role, not because we need someone to kill mafia more generally

that's what voting used to be for

No, we need you dead so i can do my job.

The way i see it, Mahi is scum's problem unless we can eliminate your teammates first then Mahi becomes our problem. Me not killing Mahi is gonna force scum to waste a nightkill on them instead of killing us unless they are ok with letting Mahi win. To think i wanted Mahi dead and now they become a nice strategic element for us.

Just a general question. You are talking all the time about having a grenade and it being returned to you etc. Can you point me to the exact post where somebody else confirms your role rather than it being your words/thoughts so that we aren't leading the vote away from you.

I'm happy for my vote to not be on you but it looks like you are leading town right now and i would rather we not waste another day with somebody not being elimmed.

The confirmation is that he was claiming to be getting his grenades back and scum doesn't claim inexplicable things, and then sam came in and claimed the role that was causing that which can only be a town role.

[Raya36]

Also just a random note: scum are going to be pushing for sam to be elimmed too. This is something beneficial to the groupscum and to town. Town needs sam gone so we can elim mahi and we don't want to depend on scum shooting mahi incase they're fine with them winning, or depend on mahi's elimination not being part of our wincon, scum has no problem with sam being gone since it's a town elim and when sam is gone town can take care of mahi so they don't have to waste a nk assuming they also want mahi gone

[Raya36]

Um and why isn't he?

[Raya36]

If we're not going to bother with mahi then shouldn't we just leave sam? They're still a part of our numbers and we can elim scum

[Raya36]

Flea, Guillo is town. Do not target Guillo

[Raya36]

Well now I'm targetting Guillo.

Shut up, you are not a killing role, it's crazy that Ircher would put two town vigs in a 13 player set up specially with the kind of firepower i got and it's even crazier to think you would be outing as an anti-town, softing you are also a killing role that got blocked by Samantha.

There is no way town got two vigs. So what is it flea?

Because this is what Samantha is claiming, that she can block factionals too, so, do you believe in Sam’s claim?

I don't. I just don't. Vaxkiller got murdered even when he used his claimed two shots because of scum paranoia, scum needed to make sure Vax wouldn't number check Samantha.
The evidence is in the thread if you bother to look for it.

VOTE: Samantha

How do you explain getting your grenades back then?

[Raya36]

No, I'm gonna unvote until we come up with a solid plan
UNVOTE:

[Raya36]

No, I'm gonna unvote until we come up with a solid plan
UNVOTE:

The solid plan is my plan! We yeet Samantha, if she is scum i finally kill the Mahimahi with pleasure higher than sex.
If Samantha is a townie, i kill Mahi, scum kills me and then you guys figure out the rest.

Why can't we kill mahi if sam is town (they are)

[Raya36]

I mean if we flip sam and sam turns out to be town why can't Guillo still kill mahi

He's saying he will only kill mahi is sam flips scum unless I'm misunderstanding

[Raya36]

Guillo is town Flea

[Raya36]

I mean if we flip sam and sam turns out to be town why can't Guillo still kill mahi

He's saying he will only kill mahi is sam flips scum unless I'm misunderstanding

Ok fine. I will kill Mahi even if Sam turns out to be town.

VOTE: Samantha

Ok good. So that was my first of 2 problems with eliminating sam. Now my second issue is do we think scum actually want mahi gone as much as we do? Because if we do then we can leave sam and let scum take care of mahi. But if we end up needing to elim mahi for our wincon and we lose Guillo and leave sam then we have no way to kill them (assuming no other vig type roles).

[Raya36]

So you're saying it's best we elim you and let Guillo shoot mahi?

[Raya36]

There's no way killing them is part of our wincon if they're a prince?

[Raya36]

Ok, I get you now

[Raya36]

Or scum can just eliminate mahi to avoid losing in a tie situation

[Raya36]

That would be a such a shame

[Raya36]

Playing the whole game only to lose in a tie with mahi who you could've just eliminated

[Raya36]

Benefits of keeping also include we don't lose a conftown when our numbers are already low

[Raya36]

We still have our elimination. And honestly with our kill power we probably would have killed at least a towny by now too.

[Raya36]

We still have our elimination. And honestly with our kill power we probably would have killed at least a towny by now too.

Yah and we’ve gotten info too out that too.

Whom of my claim targets do you think is town? Why?

Im talking about CaptainS and KidAmn specifically

I'm honestly not sure. I'll need some time to go back through their isos to get a good read on them. I wasn't only referring to you when I said that for the record. We could have other vig type roles too

[Raya36]

A50's argument is so far the closest to making me want to go back to eliming sam. We do really need mahi gone for that reason among others

[Raya36]

Guillo losing his voting power is a big concern for the fact that i brought attention to earlier. Surely having played mafia before and not reading the posting rules STILL is a huge red flag for me.

Why are you attacking a mechtown player

[Raya36]

That exists as mafia too and can't be confirmed

[Raya36]

Correct me if I'm wrong but most of my scumpool want mahi gone, so it might be safe to assume scum will nk there if we keep sam?

[Raya36]

VOTE: Guillotina

you silly mahis

-mahi

I got annoyed until I saw who posted.

[Raya36]

Honestly, I don't know which plan is best but I am a bit worried about depending on scum to kill mahi so I'm leaning towards elimming sam and letting guillo take care of mahi

[Raya36]

Guillo...

[Raya36]

Guillo...

Don't look at me, I tried to kill Mahi and this time I got nothing back.

Well this sucks then

okay, look, i know mahi and i have made a lot of questionable choices this game, one or two, but i'd really appreciate it if you guys believed me when i said that: we are town, and there is a method to our madness, even if it's hard to figure it all out

we're ready to finally cleanse ourselves of our sins this game, and get back on track to a town win

VOTE: guillotina

- mahimahi

I would like to remind everyone that guillo is town and mahi is scum

VOTE: guillotina

you lied to us

Guillo is town. I almost forgot you were conftown and voted you

do not massclaim we have a scumslip and no chance of winning

If guillo is truthclaiming we just 200% lost

We do not have a scumslip. Maybe it's best we do massclaim honestly. We're getting nowhere

[Raya36]

Someone remind me who is mechclear as of now

[Raya36]

TemporalLich, Guillotina - clear

mahimahi - scum

Flea The Magician, KidAmn, CaptainS - probably 1 or 2 are scum

What's everyone's reads on flea, kid, and captain? I think we've just about got this solved

[Raya36]

Ok, I agree. Flea said they could solve their role with guillo not killing mahi so we'll see what happens with that.

VOTE: captain
My bet is the team is mahi, captain, kid

[Raya36]

That's E-1

[Raya36]

UNVOTE: CaptainS

Wait, why do you think they are a team? Raya?

Sorry team was the wrong word. "last scum"

[Raya36]

I'm not scum.
I've always maintained I'm town and have come in tot the game with simple fact so i dont get caught out.

Tell the truth at all times. Because I'm fucking town jesus.

I have no night abilities and see nothing at night.

I said previously and you can go back and look that if Guillo doesn't follow through after we yeeted Samantha with his getting rid of Mahi that i will be voting him today. So that's what I'm doing.

VOTE: Vote Guillo

As regards to my activity yeh life gets in the way sometimes you know but I'm still here and partaking in the game. Just because I have a low post count and don't have loads of fluff posts that shouldn't be held against me.

There is no point in speaking sometimes unless you have something worthwhile to say.
That's how I play the game.

Like it or lump it.

But if you're going to get lead by Guillo on another dance today like previous days, how many has he wasted and how successful has it been?

My point exactly.

Regards

If you're voting guillo you're scum

[Raya36]

I believe kid. So we promise to elim you and you tell us the team?

[Raya36]

Then scum quick elims you and the mod is online so 0 twilight and we get nothing. Take our word for it that we'll elim you

[Raya36]

I'll stick to my word

[Raya36]

Alright. That's fair enough to me

[Raya36]

I'll stick to my word

So i stick to my word about voting Guillo on what i said the previous day and get voted up.

But you are going to stick to your word and that's ok.

Double standards much?

Sticking to my word is at least pro-town.

Sticking to your word and eliming conftown is anti-town.

But I'm quite confident you're scum anyway

[Raya36]

That's true. Just to be clear, we don't need to get rid of the jester in anyway for our wincon?

So Flea/Captain could be scum. Mahi is scum we can't get rid of. Kid is scum turned jester.

[Raya36]

And I’m sorry Raya but i think the remaining scum is between you and flea. Although im beginning to get paranoid about Temporal too. Like...

Pretty sure temporal is fine. It's between flea and captain for me. But makes sense I'm in your pool so no worries. I'd be willing to trust your read on captain for today and collaborate on elimming Flea if you're up for that?

[Raya36]

The big question is why arent we the mech clear players dropping like flies at night? Scum 101, kill the mech clears. Why aren’t Temporal and I dead already?
Why did Vaxkiller get killed instead of me when i was completely vulnerable? If scum had a roleblocker all along besides the naturalist effect, they could have attempted a roleblock on me and killed me, scum didnt know about the naturalist at the time, so from their perspective they had a roleblocker that they could combo with their night kill and get rid of me for good. So why? Here are some scenarios:

1) Vaxkiller miscleared Temporal so it was a perfect opportunity to silence him for good and prevent him from checking again to make sure.
2) The roleblocker is not mafia aligned.
3) Scum was afraid i will be watched or protected so they dodged.
4) Scum team is inexperienced and dont know what the hell they are doing (this is the only way I’d believe CaptainS is scum).

In the case that temporal was actually false cleared let's at least save him for last since that's not very likely in my opinion

[Raya36]

We don’t need to but we have to or we’ll reach the final days with a trolling alien, a trolling jester and CaptainS.

I mean, I'm not saying I'll troll, but if town doesn't want to help me, why should I help town?

To be clear: I've carried out every single one of our kills because they'd rather use their other abilities and save a particularly powerful one for when they get close to endgame, because they think they can steal the win from town. Them deciding they want to be a pseudo-SK and treating me like a sacrificial lamb made me into this, so they can swing for all I care.

Sounds like it could be a Flea plan to me? idk

But also this could all be a lie. I could see kid being annoyed at scum in this case or annoyed at town for converting him

[Raya36]

VOTE: Flea

[Raya36]

I'm quite confident kid is jester here. I'm not sure what to believe from what they're saying. Maybe best to just elim Kid anyway though, take what they say with a grain of salt, Guillo tries again on Mahi, we elim whoever we think is best the next day. We'll still be left with at least one conftown if scum shoots between our current two

[Raya36]

Don't try to put doubt in me. You're acting exactly like a jester and I doubt scum claim jester here anyway

[Raya36]

Sounds good. You do whatever feels right.

VOTE: Amn

2 people state intent on Amn and then Amn tells us who scum is, and then the 2 vote. So mahi doesn't quick elim since they're already outed

[Raya36]

Wow o.o so much for a team game

[Raya36]

VOTE: Flea

Long ago, the four mahis lived together in harmony. Then everything changed when the Mahi Nation attacked. Only the Mahi, master of all four mahis , could stop them. But when the world needed mahi most, mahi vanished.

-mahi

Distancing now?

[Raya36]

mahi is scum who is getting desperate because we almost have the game solved

[Raya36]

Guillo is not scum. Flea might be. I don't have time right now to list everything but I will sometime tonight, even though I'm still pretty confident you're scum anyway.

Start by explaining the claims, rolefishing, messing around, not doing much for solving.

I wouldn't mind a full claim from you either

[Raya36]

Claim - to get information on who's pushing a powerful town investigative. Result: we got a wagon full of scum on us
Rolefishing - anyone who was willing to claim to be checked by us was +++town. Result: VFP was clearly town, Guillo was clearly scum
Messing around - for fun. Result: we had fun
Solving - it's there, you're just biased because you disagree with what we're saying

Not full claiming under any circumstances. We're not giving scum the info they need to kill us.

Can you link to what makes you so confident on Guillo being town?

-mahi

Now explain why you let town waste 2 eliminations on you

[Raya36]

VOTE: CaptainS

Are you saying the scum if captain? (and mahi)

[Raya36]

Hey Captain, you claimed jesus, why should be believe you're town jesus and not mafia jesus?

[Raya36]

Ok
Town Investigator

N1 - Korina (elite cult leader was one of the roles which is why I was so confident korina was cult)
N2 - VFP (dolphin was one of the roles)
N3 - Guillotina (Very Irresponsible With An Army Surplus was a role, reason why I trust you so much)
N4 - KidAmn (Jester was a role, I knew KidAmn was the jester before they claimed last day)
N5 - CaptainS (Jesus is a role so we know that much is the truth. There are 2 town jesus roles and a mafia jesus)

[Raya36]

(In hindsight captain was a bad check but whatever. Mahi would have been better to figure out how to eliminate them but I've been ignoring them the whole game)

[Raya36]

Um what? You don't believe my claim?

[Raya36]

#10216
That's the number btw

[Raya36]

I got Jester, 2-Shot Day Vigilante, 1-Shot Jailkeeper for kid

[Raya36]

@Ircher:

Hypothetically if an investigator of the role number I just gave were to have checked Kidamn on the night they were converted to jester, would they have gotten jester as one of the results, or their original role as one of the results?

Answered by PM.
~Ircher

[Raya36]

This should prove it to you

[Raya36]

@Guillotine: you should pm ircher the same question I asked. I forgot the rule of pming hypotheticals

(In hindsight captain was a bad check but whatever. Mahi would have been better to figure out how to eliminate them but I've been ignoring them the whole game)

yes... yes they would have. Why didn't you?

Because I keep ignoring mahi as confscum and someone for guillo to deal with which unfortunately still isn't working. I was more in the mindset of sorting the unconfirmed

I'll respond to your case on me later Guillo. Phone posting right now. I am town though and my claim is honest. Look back at how I treated korina after I got my elite cult leader result on them

[Raya36]

You didn't catch a fake claim

[Raya36]

That was my mistake then

[Raya36]

I know how to fakeclaim. I don't make that mistake as scum. I'd have partners to discuss my fakeclaim with. So even if I overlook that, chances are the rest wouldn't too.

I make that mistake when finding my picks in the GIM thread with the search bar.

[Raya36]

Things that grew my suspicion on Raya yesterday, she tried to derail KidAmn's yeet by suggesting Flea whom we knew nothing about.

Those suspicions grew today when I didn't die, me, who suggested that we should yeet CaptainS is case it was scum theater he and KidAmn.
And instead TemporalLich died who said that he townread CaptainS even more.
They needed CaptainS as the last misyeet and that was not going to happen with Temporal alive and she thought she'd be able to persuade me into yeeting CaptainS today.

Other things of note: I deliberately stated that the scum had to be between Raya OR KidAmn but in reality I had both of them as the most possible scum team, in fact I had to choose between killing Kid and Raya on Night 3.

I believe Raya thought that she could pocket me further yesterday when Mahi didn't die and I was getting suspected by Temporal and she defended me, when it was natural for Temporal to suspect me, I would have suspected me too, but Raya had unrealistic faith on me.

I don't think she expected me to turn on her today the way I did and to pressure her into claiming, where she disastrously fake claimed.

Raya, you played a great game but... townies with the "influence" you had in the game enough to save my butt and getting people to back off from misyeeting a wild card like me don't last this long. It's unrealistic that you survive this long if town.

Now to this.

Kid was still just a jester so pushing Flea was perfectly fine.

If your theory that you lived because you scumread captain is correct then we should steer clear of a captain elim. They are for sure jesus. Your theory adds up to them being town.

I defended you because I know for absolute fact you're town. Your role only exists as town and it was one of the options in my result. I'm not trying to pocket you by defending you. You are literally conftown to me. Look at me as town with the role I claimed. It adds up perfectly. You're assuming I'm scum here. A case isn't viable if it makes sense for both town!me and scum!me.

If I felt pressured by you to fakeclaim I could have easily bought time by saying I wanted everyone to massclaim. That would have given scum more info too.

Guillo, realize I saved you from a miselim because I KNEW you were town because of my night result.

Can you do me a favour and at least PM Ircher about the jester result thing? At least then you'll believe me about that

[Raya36]

@CaptainS it took me a while to find you but I know you and flea are town because KidAmn spew you town and Raya tried getting Flea yeeted to save KidAmn, so flea is spewed not mafia aligned by Raya and to some extent by Kid too

Stop assuming I'm scum! You can't clear Flea from an uncomfirmed flip because you are wrong!

[Raya36]

Escalating reroller and conspiracy theorist. But what are the chances of getting the exact role you claimed by chance and you're actually one of those two. So you were conftown to me