Mini Normal 2196 - Game Over

[clidd]

Although the fact that she arrived E-1 at some point still bothers me, but that must have some other explanation.

I just think everyone else has a reason to be town above her, even Flea.

[clidd]

And if I had to guess the other two scums, well..



But perhaps it'll be more evident by PoE (eventually).

[clidd]

The spam is +town for Pooky.

[clidd]

@Clidd - Wouldnt those things about Ame to you suggest that means she is scum with Flea (unless you think she called no buddies scum, you/Flea are both there) and a PR claim?

No, I'm only viewing Amélie as scum atm.

After confirming the flip, I can try to trace associatives from reading her ISO (with the knowledge that she's scum). But before that, I am not 100% sure on this read, so my judgment of partners will probably not be accurate.

Regarding PRs, I feel that there is a scum among PRs but this is not connected to my read on Amélie.

[clidd]

In other words, I'm still considering a scenario where I can be wrong about her.

Her last post, however, didn’t reflect me as towny, regardless of how she’s seeing my slot rn.

[clidd]

No idea. Scum!she can be townreading or scumreading a partner according to what the gamestate needs.

pedit: I don't get the inno thing, but yes, these two are out of my poe for scum (llama/lotus).

[clidd]

@Llama

This is a towngame from her:

viewtopic.php?t=85710&f=83&st=0&sk=t&sd ... er_sort=Go

It looks different to me, although she used the readlist model there as well.

Idk, I'm just not being able to place her slot on the same level as the others.

[clidd]

I can tell when town is scumreading me and you definitely don't reflect me as coming from a town mentality.

[clidd]

You're basically throwing shade in several directions but voting for me because I'm pushing you. If I reconsidered, you would change your stance and I don't think that mirroring is something that town!you would do.

[clidd]

You're basically throwing shade in several directions but voting for me because I'm pushing you. If I reconsidered, you would change your stance and I don't think that mirroring is something that town!you would do.

If you were town reading me, I would vote VFP. One of you two is scum and since that's the case, I would vote whichever keeps pushing me. Since both are pushing, I believe you to be scummier so I am voting you.

I find it hard to consider that town!you really believe such thing.

This is an oversimplification of a premise that can easily be wrong but which you consider to be true by "??" reasons.

[clidd]

It's more plausible to me that you're coming from a scum mentality trying to emulate a town reasoning than a town mentality genuinely trying to find out who is scum, considering how weird is the way you're seeing me/Vfp.

I also think that town!you would engage with me and Vfp individually to have a greater accuracy of read instead of limiting yourself to eliminating anyone who "looks" more scummy between the two of us.

[clidd]

Pushing you more or less isn't really something that should make you consider that specific side scum and town!you probably know that too.

[clidd]

I strongly disagree that this is scum flail. I do not believe any scum would not care about their elim to this extent and the emotion does not strike me as fake. Although I agree Goofball cannot be in endgame for obvious reasons, I think Goofball is for sure town here. Take a look at their posts when they were at E-1 or E-2. Is that really what scum would post there? I don't think so.

I don't like voting replacements so my vote for now will stay on VOTE: Clidd while I try to sort Flea the Magician. I will vote Flea the Magician if I must.

I can see Clidd thinking I am scum as town but I can't see Clidd thinking Goofball is scum

after Flea's posts because those were not convincing.

Like you said here.

You saw me pushing you as towny, but my fos on Dgb scummy. Now, however, you saw my push on you as scummy (?).

[clidd]

VFP is not obvtown and one of VFP and Clidd has to be scum. There is no other reason the game state looks like this.

Actually, there is an alternative explanation: you're the scum outside the radar not being pushed, which is why we're struggling to find scum outside of a scum!Amélie scenario, especially if Gera is town.

[clidd]

Spoiler:

Clidd - dropped to null because of insistence that I am scum but then no reasoning to back it up.

I don't think this day needs to go on any longer and I will now hammer any wagon that reaches E-1.

I'm fine with basically any wagon at this point.

Another scum is geraintm. Goofball's wagon had so many people saying they were town but that there was absolutely no way another wagon would go through yet geraintm's built up in a couple pages and died down even faster. This is clear indication of high resistance to a scum wagon. I haven't looked through the wagon yet but just the fact that it ended up on Goofball is a problem. Llama started this switch actually and I still think he is town because if he were scum, he wouldn't have the guts to switch off at such a crucial time especially if geraintm is scum like I think he is.

I think my vote here is legitimate at this point

When you first came into the game I felt something was off but your effort threw me off. I know one of you and VFP are scum and it doesn't really matter who goes today because the pool Clidd and VFP definitely has scum.

More of what town!Amélie wouldn't think ^

[clidd]

Amélie's ISO is full of shade on multiple slots and it's likely that she considered everyone in the game, even her townreads, as scum at some point. This seems to me to be a classic case of "forgetting reads" that occurs most often when the reads in question are false and does not come from a genuine scumhunting perspective, as well as the behavioral incongruity to the identical situations I mentioned above on 2353.

[clidd]

I don't think she's saying what she actually believes, but what she thinks that town!she or a townie should be thinking.

Her

"oh, there must be scum between clidd and vfp but I'm not sure who it is, but clidd is pushing me so I'll vote him bc doesn't matter the order because if he's town I can vote Vfp tomorrow, although I said that A50 can be scum if Vfp is town too"

is an absurd line of reasoning for a town to believe. She always has someone to push, but there is nothing in her reads that justify such a big self-confidence, especially considering that tomorrow is ELO (lylo) with a townflip today.

[clidd]

She probably doesn't understand how self-confidence works from an uninformed perspective and is emulating the feeling incorrectly.

[clidd]

then good

VOTE: Gretchen

But you should definitely know of my ability to break down walls

Nothing too important in the next page but I don't like this at all.

I am now pretty certain the scum team is April Ludgate, Entrapta, and Clidd.

I thought you were towny for your poking and prodding but now I think it was all just for show. I hate the vote switch there and I think Flavorleaf is scum again.

Town: bugspray, Gretchen
Null: Minimegabyte, AliceK, Ydrasse
Scum: Clidd, Entrapta, April Ludgate

Here, for example ^

Very spicy for someone to think like that on day 1 without any claim or info.

[clidd]

And thinking about her read on me again, it's basically a mirror.

If I see her slot as town>

ok, clidd is town

If I see her slot as scum>

ok, clidd is scum

Which means that I'm only scum if I push her (?)

[clidd]

Sorry, I'm not buying.

[clidd]

I keep going back and forth between clidd and Flea (honestly im pretty sure its both of them) in large part due to end of D1

HypoSoc

(7)- clidd,

RLotus, Dannflor

,

Gretchen, Featherless Biped

,

bugspray, Solon

Green for town. Purple for PR claim or cleared by PR claim.

My list is probably something like most likely scum to least

Clidd/Flea
-gap-
[One PR]/Gera
VFP
Ame
-massive gap-
Lotus
[Both PRs]

I don't get it.

[clidd]

I keep going back and forth between clidd and Flea (honestly im pretty sure its both of them)

in large part due to end of D1

Explain the colored part.

[clidd]

Spoiler:

I feel like that's a saying or something...
Call me scum, shame on you! Call me scum a second time, well then you're just scum!

No I wanted to see how you would react, but.you completely mis understood what I was saying.
Having to explain it kind of defeated the purpose.

Who do you think is up for the chop when you are eliminated?
The PRs? No
Llama, Lotus? No
Amelie? This just seems like an impossible lim at this point.
That leaves not much to play with on a lim right or lose situation. Not to mention the NK hasn't even been a factor here.

Of course I'm going.to consider myself as a potential mis lim tomorrow if.you flip green.

Assuming this is aimed at me...

Well you got a reaction, and my attention
So lets see, I answer 0 - you get the opportunity to push an informed agenda on me.
I answer 0-1 - It's the only reasonable answer given the context you gave.
I answer 2 - I'm loltrolling or game throwing. Given the situation, ain't the time or place for some loltrolling.

Unless you're attempting to pull some meta level stuff, in which case good luck getting that to work.

Yeah you're having to explain it, because I don't see any sort of town motivation for giving a question thats so closed in potential answers there's rusted padlocks on it.

Why Amélie an unreachable elimination? You're so set on being defeatist on my elimination I'm hella suspicious.

Why Amélie an unreachable elimination? You're so set on being defeatist on my elimination I'm hella suspicious.

I don't even know how to answer this other than read the game? I can tell you this lim is not happening.
And I don't meta. Considering my only completed game you were dead when I joined...

But you're looking at this from a strange way. me and you being scum isn't un reasonable, it's just wrong.
I'm not sure how saying you think there are 0 scum within us though is a case to push informed on you. So if someone like Clidd is saying that there are 0 scum in me and them, is that being informed? considering you know it's not a loaded question.
Personally I'm favouring 0 out of it with us, but not greatly.
Your lim just seems too simple here, and the only connect I would happily put you with is Gera. That means I'd be missing something here.

I think a Gera flip is what gives you motive on yesterday's refusing to swap from the DGB wagon.
If Gera is scum, then the motive is obviously to save a buddy.
If Gera is town, then it just means your plasy was bad, as scum wouldn't care for the Gera flip and probably would be better to kepp DGB alive 1 more day.

You flipping green doesn't benefit what Gera is here.
Flipping red makes Gera look red too though.

I just think people aren't thinking about the lim so much to what information we get, but rather what looks to be the obvious pick.

Saying a question isn't loaded is like taking the magazine out of the gun, but not emptying the chamber. There's still one shot in there you need to be careful of.

There's no counterwagon to me, which states scum are probably happy with this outcome.

Amélies stating to start a counterwagon is sus af. and from what I recall a half-arsed effort.

My motive on the DGB was the claimed guilty which I admit I went too far on looking back.

Vote Amélie, VFP.

I dare you

.

VC 3.05

PookyTheMagicalBear (0)-

Amélie (1)-

clidd

Flea The Magician (4)-

geraintm, LlamaFluff, PookyTheMagicalBear, RLotus

(E-1)

geraintm (0)-

VFP (1)-

Flea The Magician

RLotus (0)-

clidd (1)-

Amélie

LlamaFluff (0)-

Almost50 (0)-

Not Voting (2)-

Almost50, VFP

With

9

alive, it takes

5

to Eliminate.

Deadline is

(expired on 2021-04-11 19:00:00)

- Apr 11th 19:00 GMT

this vote is incorrect i believe, i was voting clidd at the time?

reading Clidd's posts around the 2300s...there is a reluctance to go beyond amelie at all in their scum reads.

What do you think about VFP then?

vfp...i am trying to make sense of the interactions with flea today

In post 2331, RLotus wrote:
VOTE: Flea
That's e-1 I believe


I dont support this wagon currently. I find Flea particularly scummy but this wagon feels far too convenient. I'd like to see a strong clidd counter wagon and how the day plays out with that

this is plain just odd

Definitely isn't a loaded question, it's a good attempt at looking busy though.

this is about vfp - and i really like it

I'm actually quite happy with how this is rolling, counterwagon implies I'm scum and the wagon is being shifted off me. no wagon softclears me. Of course now you're saying we need a counterwagon frames me alongside you as an associative. Bold move for the townie points, sadly failed.

i really hate this though

VFP's post 2373 - i cant work out all the knots they are tying me and flea together in. it almost feels like (an informed) VFP is daring me to not vote for flea because of reasons???

Definitely isn't a loaded question, it's a good attempt at looking busy though.

this is about vfp - and i really like it

I'm actually quite happy with how this is rolling, counterwagon implies I'm scum and the wagon is being shifted off me. no wagon softclears me. Of course now you're saying we need a counterwagon frames me alongside you as an associative. Bold move for the townie points, sadly failed.

i really hate this though

VFP's post 2373 - i cant work out all the knots they are tying me and flea together in. it almost feels like (an informed) VFP is daring me to not vote for flea because of reasons???

Because VFP is informed. Them and Amélie is my call rn.

Sounds like a solid read in fairness.

VFP is daring me to not vote for flea because of reasons???

No idea how you got to this stage...

pedit: Hypo was scummy, I don't see why the full town wagon theory would be less likely than the ''there must be one scum inside'' theory.

[clidd]

Not saying that everyone on the wagon is town (I'm still not 100% confident in the mechanical aspect), but the elimination would happen with or without scum participation.

Which makes me not understand the reason supporting your argument for ''clidd/flea are probably scum''.

I mean, yes, you can scumread me based on PoE or gut, or whatever your mind thinks about my slot, but the reason you came up with is not AI and if it's the only thing making you see me as scum, you should probably
reassess.

[clidd]

Anyways, I feel good about an Amélie elim today.

If it's not going to happen and Flea flips town, I'll obviously reanalyze all my reads before doing anything, but I want support to push Amélie tomorrow (if applicable).

That's all.

[clidd]

Yes, you're right, it's significant, but not to the point of delivering the confidence that you seem to have in this read. It would be better if you stated a more practical and less mathematical motive.

Regarding Ame, I didn't see any evidence of town apathy and I think it's likely that she could be faking part of her "disconnected" behavior from the game.

[clidd]

I'm wondering if the game looked like this after I joined (as I noticed that a lot of people left), but it's probably just the nature of the playerlist (who didn't fit well together for some reason).

[clidd]

I don't care much if we win or lose this, as long as it's possible to extract some learning from the game and the players to have fun, each in their own way.

I'm not even 70% sure if Amélie is the right one, but I'm following what my reads are saying about her. If it's wrong and I get rekt by scum on elo, so be it.

[clidd]

Honestly I have read anything of D1, lets go peek at the votes....

I'm interested in seeing your take on the votes.

No wallposts, stay objective if possible.

[clidd]

@Llama

Do you want something from me? my take on some post, slot, vote, etc.

Maybe I can help you get interested in the game again.

[clidd]

No wallposts, bwahahahahahah!

Too late.

[clidd]

It would make a lot of sense to me town!Vfp voting on Amélie rn.

But as it did not happen, I'm in doubt about the real reason. The explanation of

''she's not likely to happen today, so I won't vote her''

doesn't sound like it's all he has to said about it.

[clidd]

@clidd (and I guess everyone) lets try this: What one player would you want to learn the alignment of most right now and why? What do you think that alignment currently is?

If I had a one-shot cop to use, it would probably be on Gera. I know that A50 and Pooky as town or scum would give more info by saying if their reports are fake or not, but personally speaking, I would feel much better if I could know Gera's alignment and ignore (if town) his bad posting and not have to worry about the possibility that I could be giving a free pass to scum. I imagine that his alignment is more likely town than not, but I'm having trouble seeing scum beyond Amélie. With he being 100% town, however, it would remove a major mental block on my solving process.

[clidd]

That's a bad vca analysis, Flea.

It's assuming the same thing that Llama suggested earlier in relation to the theory of 1 scum on the wagon, when in reality a wagon can occur with or without scum intervention.

[clidd]

I mean, you can use a statistical basis to support the argument that 100% town wagons are unlikely, of course, but I have hardly seen this type of scumhunting method work in any game that I have played in since last year, except with a few specific players.

[clidd]

@clidd (and I guess everyone) lets try this: What one player would you want to learn the alignment of most right now and why? What do you think that alignment currently is?

@everyone

Don't forget to answer this, by the way ^

[clidd]

@Gera

[clidd]

@Flea

"bad" is a strong word, I would say that "incomplete" is more appropriate.

[clidd]

Amelie has requested replacement

Tactical substitution isn't going to save her slot, but I would like to hear the next player.

[clidd]

@A50

Consider a pivot to Amélie, she's more scummy than Flea.

[clidd]

@Gera

Just for context, I already explained in our last game together why your method is of low precision. You being correct on one scum in that game was a point out of the curve, principally considering your other games, where your wr with this same method remains low, as well as the quality of your reads.

I have consistently shared what I'm thinking here, but you are selectively reading only what is suitable for your scum!clidd theory. I don't think arguing with you is productive if you are not acting in good faith.

And I'm just not pushing you because I think that you're town. Your push reflects me more as a town with problems of confbias, than scum insisting on the same false read several times without development (with the risk of being caught using circulatory reasoning).

[clidd]

Hum.

''principally'' doesn't seem to fit well, I think ''mainly'' fits the phrase

''

principally

considering your other games''

better.

[clidd]

@Flea

I expected a more harsh answer. I'm deliberately insulting your vca, but you were complacent about what I said.

Considering the effort you put into reaching that conclusion, your "yeah, I'm not good at it" reaction is incongruous.

[clidd]

That's a better reaction.

[clidd]

Do you think it's scum indicative my behavior, Gera?

[clidd]

Ok, and what do you think of me not using your vca, Flea?

[clidd]

By extension, what do you make of me not voting you after expressing doubt about your reaction to my insult?

[clidd]

@Pooky

The Ame wagon is giving me similar vibes to when I was hardpushing Saudade in our last game.

Do you think the occasion in which Ame's departure happened would make more sense for town!Ame getting frustrated or for a tactical departure? (considering that there was no AtE post prior to the replace out)

[clidd]

Spoiler:

@Llama

This is a towngame from her:

viewtopic.php?t=85710&f=83&st=0&sk=t&sd ... er_sort=Go

It looks different to me, although she used the readlist model there as well.

Idk, I'm just not being able to place her slot on the same level as the others.

I can tell when town is scumreading me and you definitely don't reflect me as coming from a town mentality.

You're basically throwing shade in several directions but voting for me because I'm pushing you. If I reconsidered, you would change your stance and I don't think that mirroring is something that town!you would do.

You're basically throwing shade in several directions but voting for me because I'm pushing you. If I reconsidered, you would change your stance and I don't think that mirroring is something that town!you would do.

If you were town reading me, I would vote VFP. One of you two is scum and since that's the case, I would vote whichever keeps pushing me. Since both are pushing, I believe you to be scummier so I am voting you.

I find it hard to consider that town!you really believe such thing.

This is an oversimplification of a premise that can easily be wrong but which you consider to be true by "??" reasons.

It's more plausible to me that you're coming from a scum mentality trying to emulate a town reasoning than a town mentality genuinely trying to find out who is scum, considering how weird is the way you're seeing me/Vfp.

I also think that town!you would engage with me and Vfp individually to have a greater accuracy of read instead of limiting yourself to eliminating anyone who "looks" more scummy between the two of us.

Pushing you more or less isn't really something that should make you consider that specific side scum and town!you probably know that too.

I strongly disagree that this is scum flail. I do not believe any scum would not care about their elim to this extent and the emotion does not strike me as fake. Although I agree Goofball cannot be in endgame for obvious reasons, I think Goofball is for sure town here. Take a look at their posts when they were at E-1 or E-2. Is that really what scum would post there? I don't think so.

I don't like voting replacements so my vote for now will stay on VOTE: Clidd while I try to sort Flea the Magician. I will vote Flea the Magician if I must.

I can see Clidd thinking I am scum as town but I can't see Clidd thinking Goofball is scum

after Flea's posts because those were not convincing.

Like you said here.

You saw me pushing you as towny, but my fos on Dgb scummy. Now, however, you saw my push on you as scummy (?).

VFP is not obvtown and one of VFP and Clidd has to be scum. There is no other reason the game state looks like this.

Actually, there is an alternative explanation: you're the scum outside the radar not being pushed, which is why we're struggling to find scum outside of a scum!Amélie scenario, especially if Gera is town.

Clidd - dropped to null because of insistence that I am scum but then no reasoning to back it up.

I don't think this day needs to go on any longer and I will now hammer any wagon that reaches E-1.

I'm fine with basically any wagon at this point.

Another scum is geraintm. Goofball's wagon had so many people saying they were town but that there was absolutely no way another wagon would go through yet geraintm's built up in a couple pages and died down even faster. This is clear indication of high resistance to a scum wagon. I haven't looked through the wagon yet but just the fact that it ended up on Goofball is a problem. Llama started this switch actually and I still think he is town because if he were scum, he wouldn't have the guts to switch off at such a crucial time especially if geraintm is scum like I think he is.

I think my vote here is legitimate at this point

When you first came into the game I felt something was off but your effort threw me off. I know one of you and VFP are scum and it doesn't really matter who goes today because the pool Clidd and VFP definitely has scum.

More of what town!Amélie wouldn't think ^

Amélie's ISO is full of shade on multiple slots and it's likely that she considered everyone in the game, even her townreads, as scum at some point. This seems to me to be a classic case of "forgetting reads" that occurs most often when the reads in question are false and does not come from a genuine scumhunting perspective, as well as the behavioral incongruity to the identical situations I mentioned above on 2353.

I don't think she's saying what she actually believes, but what she thinks that town!she or a townie should be thinking.

Her

"oh, there must be scum between clidd and vfp but I'm not sure who it is, but clidd is pushing me so I'll vote him bc doesn't matter the order because if he's town I can vote Vfp tomorrow, although I said that A50 can be scum if Vfp is town too"

is an absurd line of reasoning for a town to believe. She always has someone to push, but there is nothing in her reads that justify such a big self-confidence, especially considering that tomorrow is ELO (lylo) with a townflip today.

She probably doesn't understand how self-confidence works from an uninformed perspective and is emulating the feeling incorrectly.

then good

VOTE: Gretchen

But you should definitely know of my ability to break down walls

Nothing too important in the next page but I don't like this at all.

I am now pretty certain the scum team is April Ludgate, Entrapta, and Clidd.

I thought you were towny for your poking and prodding but now I think it was all just for show. I hate the vote switch there and I think Flavorleaf is scum again.

Town: bugspray, Gretchen
Null: Minimegabyte, AliceK, Ydrasse
Scum: Clidd, Entrapta, April Ludgate

Here, for example ^

Very spicy for someone to think like that on day 1 without any claim or info.

And thinking about her read on me again, it's basically a mirror.

If I see her slot as town>

ok, clidd is town

If I see her slot as scum>

ok, clidd is scum

Which means that I'm only scum if I push her (?)

Sorry, I'm not buying.

I'm trying to think about how town!Ame would react to this set of posts.

The answer is probably the key to find out her alignment.

pedit: Give me some minutes.

[clidd]

I think you need to revisit what can be considered an insult, and I really don't care if you use my VCA or not, because frankly I know you can't do better.

My turn.
Why do you consider my VCA incomplete exactly?
What information did you hope I'd glean from my efforts?
Why did you feel the need to attempt to insult my efforts?
Why are you so keen to ask questions, yet answer none and give no information?
What do you think of the phrase "put up or shut up"?
Why are you so evasive over my challenge to do one better if you're so confident?
Are you actually lacking confidence in your reads?
Is that because you're scum with an inability to actually find any other way to discredit me?

1- It's not considering the context of the gamestate in the period in which the votes took place, nor does it connect the individual motivations of each player to the vca.

2- No idea.

3- Because I want to.

4- I don't know what it means.

5- I didn't feel challenged and I'm not being evasive. I just don't care (but yes, I would be able to do better using the same effort you applied).

6- Yes, from time to time.

7- No, I'm skeptical and always try to re-analyze in order not to reach incorrect conclusions.

[clidd]

If Flea is red, then today is just obvious distancing attempt from Flea to amelie.
Nice.

I would prefer an Ame elim before Flea today, personally speaking.

Although I'm not a fan of Flea, she did more compared to Amélie and I feel more % of her slot being scum.

But we can still wait for a replacement, hopefully.

[clidd]

Why did you feel the need to attempt to insult my efforts?

I skipped that question unconsciously ^

But the answer is that I did not aim to insult you, but to analyze how you reacted to what I was saying.

[clidd]

The pronoun was not in bad faith, I forgot. It's very difficult for me to use this type of thing (my English is not native).

Regarding the vca, sorry, but I don't think it's productive to elaborate one now. Although that does not mean that I cannot criticize yours, since I don't think it is very useful since I don't see as true the point of scum always having to be inside a wagon, when in reality an elim can occur with or without scum interference. I believe I already mentioned that.

You, however, can think whatever you want about my posture, since it's in your right to do, as well as voting on me.

[clidd]

I also think that the game is not that simple with 4 PRs + 2 clears. My guess is that A50 is scum or there is a result that is not town (Lotus or Llama). Although this is difficult to say, as both slots are very towny, but not impossible.

[clidd]

Correction: 2 Prs + 2 clears.

[clidd]

More likely between PRs (A50).

But we're going to elim outside them anyways.

[clidd]

Amelie has requested replacement

That's all. Waiting for this ^

[clidd]

@Flea

As I said, you are free to think whatever you want, even if it is the worst possible interpretation of what my answer means to you.

If I think it will be relevant to my understanding of the game to do a vca or a more detailed analysis of a specific slot or event, I will do.

Right now, I'm fine with my vote. Depending on the successor that will enter the slot, however, this may or may not change.

[clidd]

It's very delusional for you to consider that I'm giving excuses, by the way.

[clidd]

VC 3.07

PookyTheMagicalBear (0)-

Amélie (1)-

clidd

Flea The Magician (3)-

LlamaFluff, PookyTheMagicalBear, RLotus

(E-2)

geraintm (0)-

VFP (0)-

RLotus (0)-

clidd (3)-

geraintm, Amélie, Flea The Magician

(E-2)

LlamaFluff (0)-

Almost50 (0)-

Not Voting (2)-

Almost50, VFP

With

9

alive, it takes

5

to Eliminate.

Deadline is

(expired on 2021-04-11 19:00:00)

- Apr 11th 19:00 GMT

Jesus, why is Ame with only one vote?

[clidd]

I want a wagon on her.

@Gera @Flea

Help me buss my partner and vote on Ame.

@Vfp

Join me on Ame first, we can deal with Flea later if fea is scum.

Actually, E-2 should be enough. I want the successor to see that the slot needs to play after entering.

[clidd]

Well, it won't work anymore.

[clidd]

Welcome Titus.

Basically, we are in a gamestate in which two players (Pooky/A50) claimed to be PR.

Pooky said that he a VT result on Llama.

A50 said that he had a no-gun result on Rlotus.

Everyone else claimed vanilla irc.

[clidd]

Correction: Pooky said that he had*

[clidd]

Some people are suspecting Flea, who pushed a TPR elim on D2 (DGB).

And some are suspecting me.

I'm suspecting your slot.

[clidd]

@Flea

If you're talking about this definition: https://dictionary.cambridge.org/us/dic ... sh/cop-out

Nop, it is not the message I'm sending.

But, yeah, we haven't finished the VCA issue yet.

[clidd]

Hum. Take a look at 339, 1253 and 1983.

[clidd]

It feels like Flea is trying to make me vote faer for some reason.

[clidd]

Wow. Apparently based on this page, I am a legend. I'm only playing 1-2 games max to see if that helps with the spoons.

I like the fact we have two counterwagons going. I'm inclined to leave both Pooky and A50 alive for now. Even if one is scum, they should generate mostly clears or guilties, based on what's been stated on this page.

Meh. Do you have other takes on the game?

[clidd]

It feels like Flea is trying to make me vote faer for some reason.

Why do you feel like that?

I'm not exactly townreading faer slot rn, but I'm not scumreading too.

I'm focused on your slot, as I believe Amélie is scum (your predecessor), but Flea's interactions with me seem to imply that fae wants to 1v1 me, even though faer wagon has more friction than mine.

After I mention that the VCA fae did was bad, fae is insisting that I should present a better VCA, but I don't see how it would help Flea to read me in AI terms and I already explained that I have no interest in a VCA, as it is not something that will help me now in the sense of scumhunting. Fae has also clung faerself to the premise that I am running away and is using this as a repetitive primary argument to stay engaging with me in a weird way.

[clidd]

Wow. Apparently based on this page, I am a legend. I'm only playing 1-2 games max to see if that helps with the spoons.

I like the fact we have two counterwagons going. I'm inclined to leave both Pooky and A50 alive for now. Even if one is scum, they should generate mostly clears or guilties, based on what's been stated on this page.

Meh. Do you have other takes on the game?

Nope. I don't read on sub in unless I have a PR. Then I fake it. I'll probably skim the VCs in a bit.

Hum, ok.

[clidd]

I mean, I would see no problem voting Flea and having reasons to be in faer wagon rn as scum!me vs town!Flea.

But I do think that faer behavior is probably more likely from foolish-town than foolish-scum (if I had to guess), although it's not a strong enough impression for me to consider the slot as townlean or townread.

Much of this was due to the push on Dgb, which so far I have difficulty finding a scum motivation.

[clidd]

@clidd, Calling something bad without presenting anything of your own is a common, but not universal, scum tactic. VCA is a tool available for everyone but weak this early. How does Faer's vca help you read him but the inverse wouldn't be true?

Actually, Flea's VCA didn't help me much, but fae wanted to do, so it's not like I could forbid it.

Regarding the reverse, I just don't see how delivering a vca would help fae to read me better compared to asking me to describe my read in a specific slot.

[clidd]

Flea already played with me and knows that I'm better at describing my impressions than doing VCAs.

And, well, VCA isn't my thing, but I can do pretty well if I put the effort to do it.

[clidd]

But I don't think it will help me specifically in the current game, considering the confused gamestate we're in, which is why I chose not to.

[clidd]

Quite simple.

[clidd]

Your question gave me scumpings, by the way (politic)

[clidd]

Spoiler:

@Llama

This is a towngame from her:

viewtopic.php?t=85710&f=83&st=0&sk=t&sd ... er_sort=Go

It looks different to me, although she used the readlist model there as well.

Idk, I'm just not being able to place her slot on the same level as the others.

I can tell when town is scumreading me and you definitely don't reflect me as coming from a town mentality.

You're basically throwing shade in several directions but voting for me because I'm pushing you. If I reconsidered, you would change your stance and I don't think that mirroring is something that town!you would do.

You're basically throwing shade in several directions but voting for me because I'm pushing you. If I reconsidered, you would change your stance and I don't think that mirroring is something that town!you would do.

If you were town reading me, I would vote VFP. One of you two is scum and since that's the case, I would vote whichever keeps pushing me. Since both are pushing, I believe you to be scummier so I am voting you.

I find it hard to consider that town!you really believe such thing.

This is an oversimplification of a premise that can easily be wrong but which you consider to be true by "??" reasons.

It's more plausible to me that you're coming from a scum mentality trying to emulate a town reasoning than a town mentality genuinely trying to find out who is scum, considering how weird is the way you're seeing me/Vfp.

I also think that town!you would engage with me and Vfp individually to have a greater accuracy of read instead of limiting yourself to eliminating anyone who "looks" more scummy between the two of us.

Pushing you more or less isn't really something that should make you consider that specific side scum and town!you probably know that too.

I strongly disagree that this is scum flail. I do not believe any scum would not care about their elim to this extent and the emotion does not strike me as fake. Although I agree Goofball cannot be in endgame for obvious reasons, I think Goofball is for sure town here. Take a look at their posts when they were at E-1 or E-2. Is that really what scum would post there? I don't think so.

I don't like voting replacements so my vote for now will stay on VOTE: Clidd while I try to sort Flea the Magician. I will vote Flea the Magician if I must.

I can see Clidd thinking I am scum as town but I can't see Clidd thinking Goofball is scum

after Flea's posts because those were not convincing.

Like you said here.

You saw me pushing you as towny, but my fos on Dgb scummy. Now, however, you saw my push on you as scummy (?).

VFP is not obvtown and one of VFP and Clidd has to be scum. There is no other reason the game state looks like this.

Actually, there is an alternative explanation: you're the scum outside the radar not being pushed, which is why we're struggling to find scum outside of a scum!Amélie scenario, especially if Gera is town.

Clidd - dropped to null because of insistence that I am scum but then no reasoning to back it up.

I don't think this day needs to go on any longer and I will now hammer any wagon that reaches E-1.

I'm fine with basically any wagon at this point.

Another scum is geraintm. Goofball's wagon had so many people saying they were town but that there was absolutely no way another wagon would go through yet geraintm's built up in a couple pages and died down even faster. This is clear indication of high resistance to a scum wagon. I haven't looked through the wagon yet but just the fact that it ended up on Goofball is a problem. Llama started this switch actually and I still think he is town because if he were scum, he wouldn't have the guts to switch off at such a crucial time especially if geraintm is scum like I think he is.

I think my vote here is legitimate at this point

When you first came into the game I felt something was off but your effort threw me off. I know one of you and VFP are scum and it doesn't really matter who goes today because the pool Clidd and VFP definitely has scum.

More of what town!Amélie wouldn't think ^

Amélie's ISO is full of shade on multiple slots and it's likely that she considered everyone in the game, even her townreads, as scum at some point. This seems to me to be a classic case of "forgetting reads" that occurs most often when the reads in question are false and does not come from a genuine scumhunting perspective, as well as the behavioral incongruity to the identical situations I mentioned above on 2353.

I don't think she's saying what she actually believes, but what she thinks that town!she or a townie should be thinking.

Her

"oh, there must be scum between clidd and vfp but I'm not sure who it is, but clidd is pushing me so I'll vote him bc doesn't matter the order because if he's town I can vote Vfp tomorrow, although I said that A50 can be scum if Vfp is town too"

is an absurd line of reasoning for a town to believe. She always has someone to push, but there is nothing in her reads that justify such a big self-confidence, especially considering that tomorrow is ELO (lylo) with a townflip today.

She probably doesn't understand how self-confidence works from an uninformed perspective and is emulating the feeling incorrectly.

then good

VOTE: Gretchen

But you should definitely know of my ability to break down walls

Nothing too important in the next page but I don't like this at all.

I am now pretty certain the scum team is April Ludgate, Entrapta, and Clidd.

I thought you were towny for your poking and prodding but now I think it was all just for show. I hate the vote switch there and I think Flavorleaf is scum again.

Town: bugspray, Gretchen
Null: Minimegabyte, AliceK, Ydrasse
Scum: Clidd, Entrapta, April Ludgate

Here, for example ^

Very spicy for someone to think like that on day 1 without any claim or info.

And thinking about her read on me again, it's basically a mirror.

If I see her slot as town>

ok, clidd is town

If I see her slot as scum>

ok, clidd is scum

Which means that I'm only scum if I push her (?)

Sorry, I'm not buying.

I'm trying to think about how town!Ame would react to this set of posts.

The answer is probably the key to find out her alignment.

pedit: Give me some minutes.

My posts against your slot are inside the spoilers, if you want to take a look.

[clidd]

@Flea

Hum, no. My money will stay in the same place.

Unless you give me a very strong reason for me to think you are scum or Titus shows to be town.

And the posts are optional, since you asked for them yourself.

[clidd]

But I wouldn't mind a little help from you with Amélie/Titus. Maybe you can see something that I don't.

[clidd]

Those posts are good too, if you can extract something, but again, they are not mandatory. I'm just suggesting to stimulate your mind, since you apparently like it.

[clidd]

@Titus

It's fine if you want to do vca and etc, but I would like to see some reads from you.

I know that you're busy with your life, but it's important for me to identify if you are town or scum within today.

pedit: Thank you, let me take a look.

pedit²: Lol, I don't know what you mean by ''there's method to the madness'', but I like you regardless of your alignment (as a person).

[clidd]

Hum..

Flea, I have a question (it's something outside of these posts and Amélie):

How are you seeing the people who are voting you?

clidd (3)- geraintm, Amélie, Flea The Magician (E-2)

For example, I think that Gera + you are likely town voting me and Amélie scum.

Flea The Magician (3)- LlamaFluff, PookyTheMagicalBear, RLotus (E-2)

In your case, there is one PR (towny), his report Llama (towny) and Rlotus (towny + A50's report).

Do you think everyone voting you rn is town?

[clidd]

Yes, but if you're town, and I'm not wrong on you, that would mean that we have two major wagons on town.

Hypothetically speaking (since you probably don't believe in this scenario and think that I'm scum), what would this type of gamestate suggest to you?

[clidd]

To be more precise, if we are both town, why did the game shape itself into two big town wagons in your opinion? (theoretically speaking)

[clidd]

Scum complacency and

hiding in plain sight

.

Thing about good scum players, is they can and will twist the game state to their need and just kinda nudge wagons as they want them - not just as they need them. There was no counter to me for a while and and you're competing wagon.... lemme find the latest VC...

That's a point that I was thinking about for a while when I had the feeling that I was overlooking something.

[clidd]

And thinking about it again, I'm not sure if a townflip on you would really boost the credibility about the scum!Amélie theory. In fact, considering our dialogue, I would probably integrate the PoE of miselim endgame.

[clidd]

This is an ideal scum gamestate rn, honestly.

Yep, if we share the same alignment, I can see an easy scum win happening.

The thing is that I'm having trouble seeing Vfp as scum, but if I take a re-look at April (who is a FlavorLeaf alt and his predecessor), I do think that he was playing with the same pattern of scum!FL more than just town!FL being scummy, which can probably make me reconsider. But still, Vfp doesn't give me a sense that he's trying to do something, if scum, rn, besides saying that he would be willing to vote you. So meh..

[clidd]

Hum, let me think about a new picture with town!Flea.

[clidd]

Something I can see where I am.

Not big, but objective.

[clidd]

With colors, preferably.

Flea likes that.

[clidd]

Alright, it's here:

[clidd]

PookyTheMagicalBear

Titus

Flea The Magician

geraintm

VFP

Llama

Rlotus

Almost50

-

Green for likely town.

Yellow for unsure.

Red for likely scum.

Pooky town by AtE/Dann's takes;
-
Titus scum by Amélie's play/meta;
-
Flea town by creativity tell/push on Dgb;
-
Gera town by push on me/meta;
-
Vfp unsure by PoE/seed of doub that Flea put on me;
-
Llama town by play/bugspray's push on me/Pooky's result;
-
Rlotus unsure by PoE/A50 result on him isn't like Pooky's result on Llama, as scum doctor also doesn't have gun (if the setup doesn't make sense with a scum doctor, however, I can take this back)/ kind of towny by play but I have others above him considering the force that such impressions had on me compared to him.
-
Almost50 unsure by PoE/play/Solon's play/Minimega's play;

[clidd]

With Titus town, however, I would probably switch her place with Gera as someone that I misreaded and this is it.

[clidd]

I like Flea as town initially. They're pretty open and detailed in their theories. Saturday morning (at the latest) I'll be running my own VCA and compare with theirs to ensure its not full of hot air or protecting slots randomly, but disagreement alone won't flag as scummy due to the game being early.

That or maybe Flea is a fae after my own heart and ego.

Another political opinion, but yeah, you need time to play, regardless of your alignment.

[clidd]

From the past few pages Gretchen looks the worse for giving dripping goofball a pass for a clear attempt to fake defeatism. I have zero doubt that behavior can come from town but I find it so unlikely that a town pr would act like that under pressure. I will try to check in every day but I guarantee nothing so if a claim is needed, I'll provide it now if two people reply within five minutes.

Amelie's OMGUSing but instead of being honest about it and saying it's because she doesn't like my push on her, she's making up some weird reason lmao. like multiple people had that reaction to DGB, not just me, are we all sus?

VOTE: Amelie this is maf

Huuum.

[clidd]

think about it clidd. Amelie said i looked the worst from the last few pages because Goofy's defeatism was thaat fake. but if she finds Goofy's defeatism that fake she should think Goofy looks the worst from the last few pages, not me.

.

[clidd]

it's a convoluted reason to OMGUS instead of reacting like how i think a town would OMGUS. feels like maf

.

[clidd]

The defeatism is fake. Fake things don't always come from scum.
VOTE: Gretchen
Why did you latch on me the moment I called you scum?
I think the reason is because you are either DrippingGoofBall's scum buddy and you are trying to save them.
Or
DrippingGoofBall is town that you think is a mislim better saved for later.

DrippingGoofBall has constantly been scummy this entire game offering close to zero reasons to back up any of their thoughts. They are either scum or town that is playing poorly. Either way scum would want to save them here because they are either a scum buddy or not a threat to scum.

I admit my logic has been all over the place this game. However, you are the one constantly picking on that which I have felt weirdly about for a while now. There is no possible way you think town all have good logic and scum bad logic.

Ok, that's her reaction.

[clidd]

Spoiler:

am i the only seeing Amelie as obv maf now? she doesn't even have the timeline of who omgused who right lmao. the last line especially feels very fake

i also don't get her confidence in the defeatism being fake regardless of Goofy's alignment. why would town be faking that?

VOTE: amelie
not checking if this is hammer, just voting

I can vote amelie here.
Town I feel like are Dann, Solon, Gretchen DGB and Lotus

VOTE: amelie
I think that's E1

I'm gonna be honest

it's finals week so that bit of information must have just leaked out of my brain

VOTE: amelie

I can do Alice too I suppose

3 votes in one page.

Weird speed. Feels like someone was bussing if scum!Amélie is real.

[clidd]

Spoiler:

It is quite late here but since Clidd requested my presence, I'm here. Nothing in the game has changed much since I last checked in except that I might drop geraint and I'm worried about RLotus town reading me. Geraint's doesn't seem like he believes in the push he is making on me. He feels like he knows I'm town and is constantly thinking about ways to scum read me in his long and wordy posts that really are just saying things that could be summed up in three sentences. I don't see a reason for scum Lotus to not just hammer me at E-1 but I also don't see why town Lotus would townread me. In my last game with Lotus, they barely had a read on me. I have been getting more and more certain clidd is town because of how he has been actually thinking. When I was scum, I didn't think before I posted whereas as town I spend time thinking about what and why I have certain reads. I reconsider and think more. Clidd's reads have changed naturally and he has taken the time and effort to meta players. I think he is most likely town. If there is a town cop, I strongly encourage they target me tonight because I will become a more and more likely mislim as the game progresses especially given my lack of time currently.

I still strongly believe Gretchen is scum and I think no other wagon is better than that one. I'll post an updated reads list tomorrow morning.

Meh. Scumpost.

[clidd]

Town: Clidd
Null: Geraintm, RLotus, Dannflor, Solon, VFP, Bugspray
Scum: AliceK, DrippingGoofball, Gretchen

I can't help but feel that you go for convenient reads

.

Hum. I had a dejavu, Vfp probably used this same reason to fos Amélie more than once.

[clidd]

I'd still lim Flea over DGB here. The push feels out of place and more opportunist. Best then that's most likely because I think DGB is town here more than not.
The sad part is its back to arguing what alignment the reaction was from DGB to something that shod be treated As NAI.
Not a fan on how Clidd posted as a whole Flea there either.

Amelie just has convenient reads

again that seem to have changed to what they were without the explanation adding up.
Having lack of interest is one thing, but page 1 it shows everyone who replaced.
Adding Solon and Pooky, adding Alice and Flea.
Missing Dann/A50, geraintm and Lotus.

Just looks to be internally missed. Plus the fact that Clidd went down to Null with the reason that I was looking bad. This also means that amelie has everyone as null or scum other than me or DGB.

Here.

[clidd]

I don't know if Llama is conftown but I know that they are obvtown to me. If Llama really is scum, it should become obvious with time.

It's comments like this that just make me think I could be onto something.
Why would Llama in particular become obvious as scum over everyone else? To my knowledge you don't have experience together?
Either that or

everything you just posted is safe and convenient.

It's basically an over extended post that just keeps saying me and Clidd aren't scum together.

And here.

[clidd]

I'll continue tomorrow, my mind needs some rest.

[clidd]

It might be interesting for those who are lost to reread the early game, by the way.

[clidd]

[clidd]

I'm not sure if that is the hammer but quickly before I go to work, last words are that I think Dripping is probably town at this point. This is too suicidal. If that wasn't the hammer, we need to think a bit before doing anything. They are being very suicidal and I just think at this point, it comes from town.

If DrippingGoofball is scum and that was the hammer, I'm happy to call Dannflor scum for a hammer out of nowhere. Solon's vote is horrible but that was minimegabyte and she was a solid townread of mine. I don't like VFB but I could see them being scum and that's it. Back to the cop on me request please.

Arg.. Can't sleep.. I'm having nightmares about this slot not being voted.

[clidd]

Why?

[clidd]

I don't see a connection between the slots.

[clidd]

You don't have to effectively solve my slot, so it doesn't matter if you read it or not.

[clidd]

Assuming your slot is scum, of course.

Which was what I could get from the play of your predecessor.

But if you're a town, this is going to be a very frustrating experience.

[clidd]

So scum is myself and the person that I'm townreading.

Good reads, Llama.

[clidd]

You can only be scum if Pooky is, unfortunately.

[clidd]

@Llama

Titus or Gera + Vfp + A50 or lotus is what I have in mind.

But if you want to elim Flea, I really don't care as long as I'm not the elim tomorrow.

@Titus

I have many ways of playing my games and I'm not buying that you are in doub about me rn bc of that Nancy vs Titus game.

[clidd]

But if you want to elim Flea, I really don't care as long as I'm not the elim tomorrow.

If fae flips town, like I'm saying.

But if scumflip, you can flash-vote me tomorrow.

[clidd]

Titus or Gera + Vfp + A50 or lotus is what I have in mind.

Actually, just Titus + Vfp + A50/Lotus there.

Not seeing scum!Gera rn.

[clidd]

More scumpings from Titus's reaction.

[clidd]

VOTE: Titus

[clidd]

@Pooky

Judging by the way Amélie has been playing, I wouldn't be surprised if she didn't know how to take advantage of the wagon on town!Flea. Her partners could be afraid because of this or bc of something else. Hard to say.

Individually, I read Flea as town and Amélie as scum. That's enough for me.

[clidd]

And you already saw that the slot is likely scum too. Your reads are usually good, so if you can see it too, it's probably correct.

[clidd]

No.

[clidd]

He's scum claiming a report on town!you or you're scum doctor/some role that town!A50(as gs) can't detect a gun.

I don't think you're both scum. At least in my mind.

[clidd]

I'm considering one of you two by PoE, as I townread other slots more than you.

[clidd]

But it's meh. PoE sucks to explain.

I'm not even saying that you're scummy, just that other people are more towny to me in their own way than you.

[clidd]

But I kind of don't want to think about partners now. I'm just saying bc that's what my PoE is telling with the current info.

My focus is on flipping one scum first, then starting searching for the rest.

[clidd]

Who I think that it's Amélie, Titus's slot.

[clidd]

And yes, it would make sense scum!A50 faking a report on partner, but I actually seeing some synergy between Amélie and Vfp.

Rereading April is what is making me reconsider his slot.

[clidd]

So if they're scum, both of you and A50 can't be together as a scum pair, just one to fill the PoE slot for third.

[clidd]

Regardless of partner, pairing or whatever pre-flip speculation going on, a scumflip is still needed to leverage things.

[clidd]

Yes, I could also be wrong on Gera or Flea, it's hard to guess the entire scumteam without any scumflip (which is why it would be better to talk about that after one).

[clidd]

And even better with an Amélie (Titus) elim today, as I think the slot is way more scummy than Alice/Flea.

[clidd]

@Pooky



If a scum doctor is unlikely in this setup, then Lotus becomes a much less likely choice as a 3rd scum PoE. A50 too (maybe) if his role fits with the others, although he stills valid for me as an option (and by play), unless I really start to consider an inaccuracy on my read between Gera/Flea. With both town (Lotus/A50), however, my guess would be Gera to be the person we're looking for (as someone who could the scum townreaded by me incorrectly). Flea stills possible but less likely compared to Gera imo.

[clidd]

clidd - you can't bad mouth everyone in the game for their reads. someone has to be right.

What do you mean by "someone has to be right"?

That's a weird way to react.

[clidd]

I didn't think about that possibility, but if Pooky didn't mention it, there probably must be a reason ^

[clidd]

From my view, it seems complicated a Joat here, since his interaction with the gs would be confuse.

[clidd]

Good, so Titus confirmed that I'm right on her slot.

[clidd]

It feels like clidd is just cornered scum and that's why he's a broken record.

That's not something that town!you would say, Titus ^

I could expect a scumread or something, but you would have more tact and patience to deal with my slot. It's not easy to read me rn. Your approach is basically a continuation of Amélie's last instance on me.

[clidd]

And considering that you are still reserved and political in your conduct, without showing any original or dissonant take from your predecessor, I don't see you as someone coming from a uninformed perspective that is still assimilating the information, but rather someone who already has the answers and is pretending to be learning about what's going on in the game.

[clidd]

Mod: What does a psychologist do? I thought they turned SKs into town but SKs are prohibited in normals of this size.

"hey, I don't have a pt, so I need to ask a filler question to show that I can only talk with the mod here"

[clidd]

@clidd, Calling something bad without presenting anything of your own is a common, but not universal, scum tactic. VCA is a tool available for everyone but weak this early. How does Faer's vca help you read him but the inverse wouldn't be true?

Extremely political comment. The question is formulated in bad faith, because at no time had I said that Flea's vca was essential for me to read fae.

[clidd]

It feels like Flea is trying to make me vote faer for some reason.

Why do you feel like that?

"instead or asking what is clidd's read on flea, or what flea's read is on clidd, let me ask something that it won't help me sort clidd to create a spark"

[clidd]

I like Flea as town initially. They're pretty open and detailed in their theories. Saturday morning (at the latest) I'll be running my own VCA and compare with theirs to ensure its not full of hot air or protecting slots randomly, but disagreement alone won't flag as scummy due to the game being early.

That or maybe Flea is a fae after my own heart and ego.

"Im not reading much, just some vcas and some pages, but without taking a look at predecessors or any other slot, I magically like Flea. The reason is that fea is open and detailed in her theories. So fea must be likely town, bc town are open in their theories and explanations. Scum aren't. I didn't evaluate what fea said, or if I agree, but it seems towny "

[clidd]

20ish Clidd posts in a row. Not reading that shit ever.

"oh no, clidd is posting a lot, I'm not reading. I don't even know what he is saying but I aren't going to read"

~town mentality

[clidd]

@clidd, If you're town, actually make me want to read your posts. You weren't like this in Nancy Drew.

False impartiality. Atm I'm 80% sure that Titus is not coming from an uninformed/ genuine/ that needs to actively find out who is scum/perspective.

[clidd]

I don't buy that town!Titus just says "ok clidd, if you're town you need to make me want to read your posts, you know that right?"

Such a fake thing to say.

[clidd]

Just rechecked, Pooky is a PR claim which makes it suboptimal to eliminate him, but he knows that. :/

More fillers.

[clidd]

Eyeballing day 1, is there a clear on Pooky? There's a lot of green on Pooky and he got to L minus 1.

Here too.

[clidd]

Spoiler:

From the past few pages Gretchen looks the worse for giving dripping goofball a pass for a clear attempt to fake defeatism. I have zero doubt that behavior can come from town but I find it so unlikely that a town pr would act like that under pressure. I will try to check in every day but I guarantee nothing so if a claim is needed, I'll provide it now if two people reply within five minutes.

Amelie's OMGUSing but instead of being honest about it and saying it's because she doesn't like my push on her, she's making up some weird reason lmao. like multiple people had that reaction to DGB, not just me, are we all sus?

VOTE: Amelie this is maf

Huuum.

think about it clidd. Amelie said i looked the worst from the last few pages because Goofy's defeatism was thaat fake. but if she finds Goofy's defeatism that fake she should think Goofy looks the worst from the last few pages, not me.

.

it's a convoluted reason to OMGUS instead of reacting like how i think a town would OMGUS. feels like maf

.

The defeatism is fake. Fake things don't always come from scum.
VOTE: Gretchen
Why did you latch on me the moment I called you scum?
I think the reason is because you are either DrippingGoofBall's scum buddy and you are trying to save them.
Or
DrippingGoofBall is town that you think is a mislim better saved for later.

DrippingGoofBall has constantly been scummy this entire game offering close to zero reasons to back up any of their thoughts. They are either scum or town that is playing poorly. Either way scum would want to save them here because they are either a scum buddy or not a threat to scum.

I admit my logic has been all over the place this game. However, you are the one constantly picking on that which I have felt weirdly about for a while now. There is no possible way you think town all have good logic and scum bad logic.

Ok, that's her reaction.

Spoiler:

am i the only seeing Amelie as obv maf now? she doesn't even have the timeline of who omgused who right lmao. the last line especially feels very fake

i also don't get her confidence in the defeatism being fake regardless of Goofy's alignment. why would town be faking that?

VOTE: amelie
not checking if this is hammer, just voting

I can vote amelie here.
Town I feel like are Dann, Solon, Gretchen DGB and Lotus

VOTE: amelie
I think that's E1

I'm gonna be honest

it's finals week so that bit of information must have just leaked out of my brain

VOTE: amelie

I can do Alice too I suppose

3 votes in one page.

Weird speed. Feels like someone was bussing if scum!Amélie is real.

Spoiler:

It is quite late here but since Clidd requested my presence, I'm here. Nothing in the game has changed much since I last checked in except that I might drop geraint and I'm worried about RLotus town reading me. Geraint's doesn't seem like he believes in the push he is making on me. He feels like he knows I'm town and is constantly thinking about ways to scum read me in his long and wordy posts that really are just saying things that could be summed up in three sentences. I don't see a reason for scum Lotus to not just hammer me at E-1 but I also don't see why town Lotus would townread me. In my last game with Lotus, they barely had a read on me. I have been getting more and more certain clidd is town because of how he has been actually thinking. When I was scum, I didn't think before I posted whereas as town I spend time thinking about what and why I have certain reads. I reconsider and think more. Clidd's reads have changed naturally and he has taken the time and effort to meta players. I think he is most likely town. If there is a town cop, I strongly encourage they target me tonight because I will become a more and more likely mislim as the game progresses especially given my lack of time currently.

I still strongly believe Gretchen is scum and I think no other wagon is better than that one. I'll post an updated reads list tomorrow morning.

Meh. Scumpost.

I'm not sure if that is the hammer but quickly before I go to work, last words are that I think Dripping is probably town at this point. This is too suicidal. If that wasn't the hammer, we need to think a bit before doing anything. They are being very suicidal and I just think at this point, it comes from town.

If DrippingGoofball is scum and that was the hammer, I'm happy to call Dannflor scum for a hammer out of nowhere. Solon's vote is horrible but that was minimegabyte and she was a solid townread of mine. I don't like VFB but I could see them being scum and that's it. Back to the cop on me request please.

Arg.. Can't sleep.. I'm having nightmares about this slot not being voted.

I'm rereading this and getting to the same conclusion.

[clidd]

Spoiler broken, but the posts are still understandable ^

[clidd]

Maybe it's just as simple as 1 of
Titus / Gera/ Flea
Clidd / Gera/ Flea

I'll vote Flea if no one is really interested in this wagon after 10 hours.

[clidd]

It isn't good, but it's out of my control anyways.

[clidd]

[clidd]

I'm going to stop there for tonight. I need to think more on April Ludgate.

I still think April Ludgate is scum and posts like the one below don't help.

I actually quite like this post. It feels shitposty but at the same time there's some interesting content in it.

I'm glad you get me...

and I feel similar vibes coming from clidd there as well

For Da dude:

Da dude has a lot of very useless posts but I think he is trying. I don't find what he is doing to be scum indicative and I am inclined to say his wagon is being pushed by scum. Scum April.

I did not like Entrapta for many reasons but Da dude is much townier actually. He isn't trying to stop his own elimination. He is very relaxed and trying to provide content as well. He reminds me a bit of my first newbie game and the frustration that I was masking. I think he is trying hard to not let his frustration show through and I town read it.

I think Da dude is town.

TMI on dadude.

viewtopic.php?t=85940&f=2&st=0&sk=t&sd= ... er_sort=Go

His playstyle seemed to follow an interpersonal pattern of expression, like a character, but nothing that really indicated frustration.

[clidd]

then good

VOTE: Gretchen

But you should definitely know of my ability to break down walls

Nothing too important in the next page but I don't like this at all.

I am now pretty certain the scum team is April Ludgate, Entrapta, and Clidd.

I thought you were towny for your poking and prodding but now I think it was all just for show. I hate the vote switch there and I think Flavorleaf is scum again.

Town: bugspray, Gretchen
Null: Minimegabyte, AliceK, Ydrasse
Scum: Clidd, Entrapta, April Ludgate

Every time my eyes go through this post, my brain cannot interpret how a town reasoning would come to that conclusion on D1.

To suggest that you're scumreading a specific set of players is one thing, but to say that you are very sure on who is the scumteam is quite absurd. Town!Amélie wouldn't believe that.

It is the kind of false bravado that seems to be more likely a product of an unsuccessful emulation of a town self-confidence than a genuine feeling.

[clidd]

Like I said, I have many ways of playing my games.

Do you think everything I'm saying about your slot is invented from a scum perspective?

[clidd]

@Titus

You weren't even interested in reading any of the posts from that set that I mentioned when you joined the game.

There is 0 of interest in you to understand if what I am saying about your slot is coming from town or scum.

[clidd]

I mean, you are robotic, political and slow and many of the impressions I had about Amélie are still in my head.

But sure, I can slow down a bit.

[clidd]

The point is that you have not reacted properly in the way I imagine town!Titus would act after seeing the growing number of my posts denigrating the image of her predecessor.

Even your recent answer seems fake to me.

[clidd]

Well, 80% is not 100%, and I'm not ignorant to the point of saying that my read on you is absolute, of course.

So, yeah, I can stop with the Amélie-is-scum-look, but I don’t guarantee that my vision will change.

At least not now.

[clidd]

I can collaborate for ethical reasons, sure, but I still think you are scum with the information I have atm and how you have been playing since you replaced in.

pedit: Hum..

[clidd]

You mean that I have you as a caged scum in my mind and nothing you do is actually going to change my view?

[clidd]

You mean that I have you as a caged scum in my mind and nothing you do is actually going to change my view?

No. That you're caged scum and therefore would say that regardless. There is a rare chance of town you flail spamming, but I don't see it given your utter lack of sorting anyone else since I got here.

Ok, let's say that we're living in a world where we're both wrong about each other being scum (hypothetically speaking).

What advice would you give to town!Clidd rn?

[clidd]

''Stop the spam'', yeah, I can see that coming, but besides that.

[clidd]

More precisely, how would he deal with Amélie being scummy to him? just ignore?

[clidd]

I can see an answer like ''forget the predecessor, focus on the current player'', but I would like something more organic.

[clidd]

''Scumhunt outside of scum!Me. You are focused only on my slot''

Hmm.. True.

[clidd]

Wait, I should continue with this read, because I'm convinced that you're scum.

"Even if I'm scum, you have no support to eliminate me and it is counter-productive for you to continue pushing something that will not happen, as well as making it difficult for other people to read you. Your behavior is the definition of anti-town, or just scum. I do think you're scum, though ''

Ok, maybe you have a point. I can't make you happen today.

[clidd]

Hum .. Still, Titus not doing what town!Titus should do in my head is still a scum point, as well as the lack of interest in visualizing what I raised about the slot, and her reactions too.

''Your spam is annoying, regardless of the AI ​​perspective I'm looking at. My reaction is NAI. You can't predict what town!me or scum!me will do unless you have mastery of my meta, or know me very well. To assume that just because I didn't do what you thought town!me should do is egocentrism. You can't read minds or predict what people can do, just accept it ''

[clidd]

Alright, sounds good.

[clidd]

75%, I liked the ''making noise'' thing.

[clidd]

Do you think I'm scum, Vfp? (considering that I'm seeing you as a potential scum by PoE)

[clidd]

I'm curious.

[clidd]

Why me + flea as town would make you scum?

[clidd]

@Vfp

Could you describe what you liked/disliked about my posting? no wallposts, thanks.

@Titus

It probably won't be helpful for you to answer this, but I would really like to know what exactly elements of my play are bothering you (and that you're seeing as scummy).

Doesn't have to be a big description, just say what you think (the truth, assuming you actually have to read me).

[clidd]

I don't know if this is a fact of importance, since activity is not AI, but this is the first game in which I reach more than 300 posts (I have 500+ at the moment).

[clidd]

Could you describe what you liked/disliked about my posting? no wallposts, thanks.

It's more or less in my last post.
Your showing effort and progression on reads. And looking to why they can be wrong. Personally I like that as a town mind set (without just mindless flip flopping)

Alright, thanks.

You have an inflated perception of me, since the positive aspects were more evident to you than the negative aspects. I also had periods where my progression was inconsistent on some slots and a flip-flop behavior happened between D1 and the middle of D2.

It's plausible for town!you to be surprised by the organic way I'm playing, but also ok for scum!Vfp to not attract my attention (especially after seeing how I behave with scumreads). Not good, but ok. Town!you explanation seems better, although that doesn’t make it more likely.

[clidd]

@clidd - How do you rectify Flea-town with that slot basically never targeting any of your other scum pool except some exchanges with VFP (and around 12 hours of voting Ame at one point)? Even now they seem to be more in self-preservation mode by voting you.

That slot just seems to have avoided basically all other slots who are likely scum at this point when it comes to any sort of push (outside now of you).

It's how my brain works.

If I think a slot is town, regardless of what it is doing (as long as I don't reevaluate it as scummy), I will not take action against it.

Unfortunately, I got the impression that Flea is town, although fea is not showing it now. I can be wrong, but that's what I think.

[clidd]

If I follow what my read says, fae is a foolish town playing badly, but stills town.

If scum, well, fae played correctly to make me townread faer by fighting with me earlier. But it's less likely to me.

[clidd]

Gera would not be soo good, but at least less worse than Flea, since he's a slot that will cause some doubt when the game reaches ELO for not being able to express himself properly.

[clidd]

I feel like town!Flea could also be angry with me for some reason, which could be making fae refuse to try to reassess me.

It's one of the hypotheses that I'm working with.

[clidd]

@Llama

I mean, I'm not 100% sure about anything.

Town!Flea considering that scum!Clidd chose to stay out of the main wagon, pushing an isolated wagon, saying that Flea is town and being pushed without defending himself is a very extreme line of thought. Probably the bridge to the parallel theory of me being wrong and scum!Flea abusing faer vote on my wagon. But in contrast, I visualize the slot's behavior, regardless of this specific point, as towny, which makes my conclusion go to the town side comparatively.

Regarding PoE, this game has been strange, ngl, but my solve is looking like: Titus + Vfp + A50 or Gera now.

The problem is that Vfp has seen me as town and is acting weird if he's scum, so idk. Titus acting like I'm the person doing the wrong thing is also weird.

Honestly, without seeing a scumflip it's quite impossible for me to be able to go beyond the speculative sphere and get my hands on a solution that I'm absolutely convinced is 90~100% correct.

[clidd]

I'm also a fool too often, so it's not an offense ^

You could at least pretend to trust me and together we could try to move the votes for an alternative wagon.

Preferably, a scumread in common between us, which you judge as a potential partner for me and that I judge as scum.

[clidd]

@Flea



I think that you're town, so I'm just disregarding hypothetical partners for you.

If I had to think, I would say that it's someone on my wagon, between Titus and Gera.

Now, working with the world of town!you, which is what I consider to be the most likely, I'm offering an alternative option to have a chance to hit scum and be able to avoid your elimination at the same time. It doesn't matter to me if you have the mentality of looking for my partner, as long as you don't get stuck in the game because you can't see scum beyond me.

[clidd]

VOTE: geraintm

[clidd]

I didn't expect it either, there was more I wanted to talk about.

But stills a better elim imo.

[clidd]

[clidd]

I'm leaning to vote Titus today too, honestly. The slot in general has an expressive % of being scum imo (more due to Amélie than necessarily Titus).

[clidd]

The wagon seemed perfectly normal to me in the sense of speed.

[clidd]

Spoiler:

Why Flea?

I feel that wagon was far too fast to be pure.

Scum is in VFP/Titus, Im leaning titus rn.

Why are you leaning me? To me, it feels like the game is on autopilot.

The gera lim was likely going through because of the stalemate and the deadline, so it makes sense someone bussed.

I'm leaning clidd as the busser.

I'll save you a headache. Ger and I had no interactions because he never posted since I subbed in.

[clidd]

Waiting for A50, but:

VOTE: Titus

Town!Titus would have read my interactions with Gera and came to the conclusion that the chance of T|S was low.

[clidd]

@Titus

I mean, Amélie was scummy>I start my push on her>you replace in>nothing changes>reevaluation occurs but same conclusion is reached>read remains the same>I push you.

I don't see how you're seeing the "setting you up" here.

[clidd]

No idea, but Pooky said that scum doctor is unlikely.

[clidd]

I'm fine with the setup being exactly

Odd Night Gunsmith
Even Night Gunsmith
Novice Detective
Night 1 Psychologist
??? Neapolitian

because normals tend to get approved with 5 TPRs

the Gunsmiths are balanced by the fact that they get false-guilties on Detective/Gunsmith so it's roughly 50/50 on the guilty hit rate

The Neap is balanced by the fact that 4/7 of their "guilties" are false guilties. The other 2 invest roles are fairly weak imo.

It's a theme that fits. I highly doubt the mafia would have a doctor, the only game I've played as a mini normal where the gunsmith could get false innos on a mafia doctor was Boardgames and that Mafia Doctor was designed to counter the town vig and the town gunsmith and it was announced at the beginning of the game that a mafia doctor was in the game.

As that town was roughly the same power level as this one, I would expect a mafia doctor to be similarly announced as a possibility.

Here ^

[clidd]

Vfp and Flea are both towny to me, so my preference is Titus.

[clidd]

I can only see Vfp as scum by PoE or April's behavior.

By play, he has being pretty towny.

[clidd]

Having me as a lock-read also doesn't make sense for scum!Vfp if he wants to win the endgame, by the way.

[clidd]

I'm more sure on Titus than Flea.

But yeah, my townread can be wrong on Flea if you and A50 are both town.

[clidd]

@Lotus

Not a bad idea, but after so much effort to avoid Flea's elimination I would feel upset with Titus escaping today (if townflip on Flea).

In any case, I think that Llama should decide the elim.

UNVOTE: Titus