Sunny 2: Rules of Im-peachment - Over!
- Zaiden
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Zaiden Goon
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Man, I wake up, my team tells me things have begun and there's already 8 pages. Pls no.
Anyway, my team does blacklists. So I'll be writing one up sometime.
For now, I'll introduce myself. I don't really play forum mafia. But Flopz, Hectic and Hopkirk roped me into this because something something they needed 4 people to make a team. I'm just here to fill the numbers. But I do like and have a background of playing social deduction games in real life. Although posts are there forever (so no take backsies for scum) and can be analysed in depth, I kind of miss the real life visual/social interaction cues. Also great, I have no meta reads on anyone here. So I will be going in blind. I will try to read posts from past games to figure out whether there's a pattern of behaviour for certain players but I'm not sure I have the willpower to do that for everyone.
I was gonna make a joke about blacklisting all weeb/koreaboos. No matter. I'm pretty into anime. Top 5 anime are - Clannad After Story, Legend of the Galactic Heroes, Fullmental Alchemist Brotherhood, Shin Sekai Yori, Eureka Seven. Maybe Attack on Titan Final Season will end up in there. I have high hopes for how that might end. Might be less active in the next week or so of the game - I've got a backlog of stuff to do in real life. However I'll be keeping an eye out on things. Blacklist incoming.- Zaiden
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Zaiden Goon
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Someone probably said the best way to know someone is through their enemies. I don't think any of you have played with me before, so I thought sharing my blacklist for this event might provide some insight into what kind of person I am:
Flopz - Killed me about 8-9 times as my Dungeon Master in D&D 5E. Some of those deaths he completely set me up for knowing I would take the bait and had me murdered in cold blood. He's basically a guaranteed serial killer to me. If I ever die, he was involved in some capacity.
Untrod Tripod - As the organiser they're guaranteed to be in the cahoots with mafia.
Kim Jong Un – I don't want to play games with dictators who've deprived fundamental rights and brought great suffering upon their people.
Byron - I'm amazed this guy can shamelessly try to frame me as scum and pretend he's town when he's so clearly scum.
Ganondorf - Kidnaps young girls. FBI need to investigate this guy for child exploitation/trafficking.
Shinji Ikari - He refuses to get in the robot and save humanity. Clearly dumb town who I wouldn't trust to make the correct decisive action in eliminating scum.
Ganyu - She's a demonic, horned cocogoat. It's not that I failed to roll her with 100 summons and don't want to think about her ever again. Let's never bring her up please.- Zaiden
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Zaiden Goon
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Also, never trust a simp. They're named Pooky too. Clearly a reference to Poki. AKA Pokimane. You have to all join me in eliminating this simp from the game so we don't have to put up with their simping for the next few weeks. Maybe Spring Breeze has to follow for encouraging these shameless acts of degeneracy.
Vote: PookyTheBear
More serious thoughts/reads to come later.- Zaiden
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Zaiden Goon
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- Zaiden
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Zaiden Goon
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I've played real life Mafia, One Night Ultimate Werewolf, Coup, The Resistance/Avalon, Two Rooms One Boom, Among Us, etc etc.In post 193, Gypyx wrote:
what kind of social deduction games / how would you qualify your playstyle? i'd guess interaction based given your background but not sureIn post 190, Zaiden wrote:Man, I wake up, my team tells me things have begun and there's already 8 pages. Pls no.
Anyway, my team does blacklists. So I'll be writing one up sometime.
For now, I'll introduce myself. I don't really play forum mafia. But Flopz, Hectic and Hopkirk roped me into this because something something they needed 4 people to make a team. I'm just here to fill the numbers. But I do like and have a background of playing social deduction games in real life. Although posts are there forever (so no take backsies for scum) and can be analysed in depth, I kind of miss the real life visual/social interaction cues. Also great, I have no meta reads on anyone here. So I will be going in blind. I will try to read posts from past games to figure out whether there's a pattern of behaviour for certain players but I'm not sure I have the willpower to do that for everyone.
I was gonna make a joke about blacklisting all weeb/koreaboos. No matter. I'm pretty into anime. Top 5 anime are - Clannad After Story, Legend of the Galactic Heroes, Fullmental Alchemist Brotherhood, Shin Sekai Yori, Eureka Seven. Maybe Attack on Titan Final Season will end up in there. I have high hopes for how that might end. Might be less active in the next week or so of the game - I've got a backlog of stuff to do in real life. However I'll be keeping an eye out on things. Blacklist incoming.
pedit : what the fuck is that post Sir
My playstyle? A mix of logic/going with my gut instinct. I'm the sort of player to randomly fire a vig shot at someone I don't trust without any prior indication. After all, my mother told me to never trust strangers. Or cry over spilt milk. In real life, there are things I like to use like visual cues/understanding of a person. Neither which I have at my disposal here. But I can apply a lot of my skills to analysing and deconstructing posts. Generally I like seeking out people who seem town, and try to pressure people I don't get good vibes from. Like Pooky for their simping, Kanna for encouraging said simping and StayPositiveFriend since I don't trust anarchists.
To be honest, my first impression? From skimming over the pages, you guys are very different from the people I play with irl. Though I was expecting you folks to be a lot more hardcore too.
Also give me time. I'm currently DM'ing a session of D&D 5E for some people and will probably be finished in 2-3 hours? You can hold me to those words.
Finally, if you're an anime fan and not watching Wonder Egg Priority this season, what are you doing with life?- Zaiden
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Zaiden Goon
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Reject humanity, return to monke.In post 218, Pink Ball wrote:Zaiden, you are funny. Very very funny- Zaiden
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Zaiden Goon
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I like doggos. And I like people who say I am funny. Therefore I like PinkBall for now. To PinkBall - would you say that a peach is dare I say, a pink ball?
In retrospect through reading their posts, I'm actually getting decent vibes from SPF despite the fact they're an anarchist. What they said about how they want to approach the game aligns with how I'm seeking to approach the game as town. I like forcing engagement too to gauge people based on their interaction with me. Or at least their interactions with others.
Everyone's piling onto Cheetory and I did think it was kind of suspicious at first. But reading through their posts, Cheetory comes across as scummy for saying that meta is bad if that makes sense. Because I would think the opposite based on playing in real life and what little forum I have played before (like one game but most of the players in that game were people I knew irl). Maybe it's different in a big forum with people you don't actually know on a personal basis. So correct me if I'm wrong. But I have my reservations about that. It could be an attempt to discredit links to scum pattern from previous games. To other players - does meta matter on forum (could be less effective since we don't see each other/can't pick up cues for lies/etc)? And Cheetory normally say that meta doesn't matter? If this is just their usual line on D1 then there's actually nothing much to read into here.
Cheetory, could you elaborate on why meta doesn't matter? If you had to name a player in this game whose meta you are most familiar with, who would it be and what impression do you have of them? If you don't know anyone else here, then I think your proclamation is fair game. Or if you do know people here, is it more like meta doesn't matter for D1 because there's too little of a sample size to go off of?
Finally I like peaches. But I'm more of a melons man if I may say so myself.- Zaiden
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Zaiden Goon
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- Zaiden
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Zaiden Goon
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Zaiden
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Zaiden
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Zaiden Goon
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- Zaiden
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Zaiden Goon
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[/quote]In post 232, midwaybear wrote:
I can see how you would view it as townie, but I also think the general approach is pretty easily fakeable as scum? How do you feel about the spf/Jake interaction then? Do you think it's genuine from her?In post 225, Zaiden wrote:What they said about how they want to approach the game aligns with how I'm seeking to approach the game as town.
Maybe? But I also don't think a lot of scum players would call meta bad for the reason of discrediting meta scumreads. I think the alternate theory that "meta bad" is, well, meta for him is more likely.In post 225, Zaiden wrote:But I have my reservations about that. It could be an attempt to discredit links to scum pattern from previous games.
From my perspective, that's my approach as town so I can personally buy into that. It is fakeable. But eventually inconsistencies will pile up right? If scum if forced to go back on their claims, die on hills or even backtrack. So it feels like a win-win, since if you force an interaction from mafia early that causes them to make a mistake that can't be retrieved, it's possible to notice these things later on when we figure more stuff out about the game. So I think it would be difficult for SPF to keep up the charade if they are trying to trick me. And it's a good place to start since we can go about operating on our shared modus operandi to get the results we both want. As for my thoughts on SPF/Jake interactions, what does LHF mean? And why are LHF scummy? If you're asking me who I think would be bad between them, Jake kept asking Gamma who should be killed rather than reads/why someone else should be killed. Seems less productive/helpful to me than what SPF is attempting.
As for your second sentence that doesn't even make sense to me. Would you be able to better explain/re-phrase: "I think the alternate theory that "meta bad" is, well, meta for him is more likely." Because I don't know what you were trying to say here.- Zaiden
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Zaiden Goon
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They are coaching me on how to read you guys on forum. But that opening? No way. That's my own magnum opus. Although the idea of a blacklist came from them because we were doing that as a team.
*Chef's Kiss*- Zaiden
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Zaiden Goon
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1. Now that I think about it, I don't know why I assumed there would be flips. When I played forum before, there were flips so I just kind of assumed flips that would expose inconsistencies are standard on forums. If there are no flips for this session then it makes sense that approach would be less good. But I still think it's a good approach because it produces reactions/reads that others can form opinions around.In post 247, midwaybear wrote:
Hmm. I'm not really sure what you mean here. How are you anticipating these inconsistencies to look like? If you mean that their progressions will eventually fall apart, that could happen, but capable players tend to be able to cover their tracks on that front.In post 242, Zaiden wrote:But eventually inconsistencies will pile up right? If scum if forced to go back on their claims, die on hills or even backtrack. So it feels like a win-win, since if you force an interaction from mafia early that causes them to make a mistake that can't be retrieved
LHF stands for Low Hanging Fruit which means that they generally are scumread as either alignment due to playstyle reasons.In post 242, Zaiden wrote:what does LHF mean? And why are LHF scummy?
Perhaps less productive, so I can see that you might think Jake is less townie than spf. Do you scumread him though? I think asking who should be killed generally leads into a conversation about why.In post 242, Zaiden wrote:Jake kept asking Gamma who should be killed rather than reads/why someone else should be killed. Seems less productive/helpful to me than what SPF is attempting.
Yeah, I just meant that Cheetory might have past history of being against meta.In post 242, Zaiden wrote:Would you be able to better explain/re-phrase: "I think the alternate theory that "meta bad" is, well, meta for him is more likely."
2. Makes sense. I just don't think it's wrong to go for LHF because the discussion generated around LHF is clearly useful. As mentioned above I still think it's a good approach because it produces replies/reactions that we can form opinions + reads around.
3. I think we should be looking at Jake as a candidate for our D1 eject because they're saying it's bad to target LHF. At first I thought this meant he was referring to other players, and maybe he was protecting his own scum teammates from scrutiny. But after reading through it more carefully the LHF Jake was talking about was actually himself. I still don't think it's a good defence though or even a legitimate point against SPF. If I was accused of being LHF, my first reaction would be to prove I'm actually a HHF. Not to deflect like that. Also he jumped straight to asking Gamma who should be killed to deflect attention away from himself/them. Imo this early on we should be asking who looks scummy, why are they scummy and observe further comments/replies they make. Then ask whether they should they be killed or if there are other more suspicious people. His line of logic does not follow that natural order I've just given. But Hectic and Hopkirk disagree with me. They think Jake seems pretty good, but I've been right before when they've been wrong so.
4. That's cool. Thanks for clarifying. But I noticed you said 'might' which suggests you don't necessarily know. Does anyone know if Cheetory has a past record of being for or against meta?- Zaiden
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Zaiden Goon
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Zaiden Goon
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- Zaiden
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Zaiden Goon
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@MariaR, not sure what exactly I'm doing that is fake? Seems like an arbitrary thing you could say about any energetic player to seem like you're making a contribution.
I want to mention that Midwaybear definitely feels like they are engaging with me in good faith. We had a good chat figuring out stuff about where we come from/how we approach the game. They are trying to create focused discussion and not just with me. They prodded Nora as well. So I don't quite understand why there's a push against them. I've looked through their posts and haven't seen anything off.
One question btw. Is Poki usually like this? Does no one else seriously think this could be scum attempting to buddy all the girls in the lobby through the power of simping? Like no joke. I've seen it happen in real life mafia before.
Finally I can neither confirm nor deny that I am a Hectic alt. But I am indeed good friends with him. He's helping me find my father.- Zaiden
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Zaiden Goon
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I can understand why Cheetory would think I'm bad based off my opening post. I was taking the mick in some senses. But I didn't mean any harm by it. I came up with it entirely by myself. And the only input my team had was the handmade modkill meme and telling me to include a blacklist. So I don't know if Flopz/Hectic/Hopkirk have done anything weird on this site. But I feel like I'm also being judged by my association with them, and not for who I actually am as a player and person.
Additionally, I honestly don't get why people are voting for Gamma.
What was the issue with their vote on Jake and why is being pedantic an issue? From my perspective, Gamma hasn't done anything wrong. And Jake is probably my heaviest scumlean atm based on what I've said before, about how they aren't really engaging with Gamma or others in good faith. The questions they've asked seem pretty agenda driven to me. I'm really not convinced by this wagon onto Gamma and would like to ask Jake and others if there's some unexplained meta going on here.
Vote: JakeTheWolf
Anyway, I've literally had no response to any question I've asked about Pooky. So I'm just going to assume this is the usual for them? It's actually driving me insane. As for Spring Breeze, I literally don't understand how talking in poems makes people think they're good. How is it they can say 'I think SFP is good because I think SFP is good' and that's somehow not flimsy. And something I actually say with substantiation is therefore flimsy??? @_@.
I seriously feel like I'm visiting a completely different countr/culture that abides by a different set of logical values that has some occasional overlaps with my own, in terms of what's just accepted at face value. But I guess it's a learning curve. The onus is on me to become accustomed to this culture, show I'm working hard to help solve the game and that I can be trusted as a member of town.- Zaiden
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Zaiden Goon
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I've played with some strange people. But some of you take the cake for strangest people I've ever played with.
I think Spring Breeze's push onto me is questionable as heck. I apologise if I offended you for calling you a simpathiser. But your reaction to me comes across more like personal dislike/reaction to my previous vote on you, as opposed to coming from a place of good reason and genuine logic. For now I have Spring Breeze/Pooky as nulls. The way they play the game is beyond confusing for me, maybe it didn't help I personally attacked them (for which I'm sorry), but my frustration come from a place of not understanding what both of you post and why you post like that. And it doesn't help that no one's answering my questions. I've asked like every single time and no one is fucking saying anything and I really hate it.
In retrospect, after reading through the thread without being sleep deprived, I think Gamma's unwillingness to talk about reads/thoughts on the game state when pushed for it seems pretty bad. But I think MWB did mention what would scum Gamma have to gain from posting like that? Would jester be bastard or non-bastard in this setup?
@cheetory you won't like it but that's just my playstyle for early. I don't think it's fair to expect someone to be able to write a doctorate thesis on deep reads when I have no history of playing with people here/knowing their habits. You say meta isn't important, but it feels like you expect me to somehow be the same as everyone else going off vibes from prior experience/be able to tell what player based scum slips are, which I would personally classify as meta. Like what even???
I like Gypyx's discussion about the setup here. I don't know how the setups would typically be balanced on this site, so it's useful hearing about the kind of possibilities. I was kind of expecting the usual doctor and cop + mafia roleblocker but didn't consider what roles there could be depending on the flavour behind this setup. I think a fruit stealer would make sense. We need to set up watch in the
I also don't understand this random vote on Pooky from SFP. I've been asking about Pooky all this time and you NEVER tried to follow/engage with me on it. And now that I've decided to move on from it you decide to make your move. WTF? It's shit like this that makes this game so frustrating.
Finally, I don't want to end on a negative note. Is anyone else watching Mushoku Tensei from this season? That show is the grandfather of modern isekai and it's definitely one of the grandest fantasy adventures I've had the pleasure of reading. It's not perfect. But it's my favourite light novel and I really recommend the anime adaptation.- Zaiden
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Zaiden Goon
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How the f*ck am I supposed to read people's body language, and suspicious behaviour, across the internet? Guess I'll have to break out some highschool English literature skills to analyse the heck out of people's posts.
I'm pretty sure there are mafia pushing me because I'm the new person. I'm an easy target for these scummy ass lying bitches. My teammates think I'm being trapped, that people accuse me of coaching knowing that I might not understand what it means in a forum mafia context. I didn't realise it had a special connotation. I'm paranoid/scared because to me that's exactly what happened. From my perspective, coaching meant asking about how to format posts and posting etiquette, etc. Or telling me I shouldn't post messages about rubbing Sunscreen Protection Factor (SPF) over my peaches to protect them from sunburn to avoid getting modkilled because it could be interpreted the wrong way. Not that they told me how to write my posts word by word. Because frankly that's just not true. Literally, Hopkirk and Hectic just told me 'Do your regular thing you do in real life and other people should townread you pretty quickly' and vanished to focus on their respective games.
I don't know if they set me up to get screwed over as a joke. Because I went and did that but people seem to think otherwise. Other than some cursory points at the beginning of the game, with Hectic telling me they felt Hopkirk telling me he was getting strong town vibes from SFP and trying to incorporate that into my game, since I strongly agreed with those particular takes from him (in addition to liking Gypx and PinkBall myself), that spectacularly backfired and they're just chortling at my struggles. I'm literally just here to fill the numbers and play my style my way because their first choice player in Elements got banned last year. I know, I'm not a good player like Elements that can help them win. But I wanted to at least try and not let them down. But it's so hard to keep going when people seem to have these bullshit wacky reads that make no fucking sense from my point of view. Worse still, I go off to do real life shit (Grinding ranked in League of Legends after missing Gold IV by 2 LP after finishing my placements, blogging anime, participating in Clash, etc) only come back and there's like 10 extra pages. It's like never-ending homework keeps piling up and I'm being told 'Zaiden you have this deadline, please do it or we'll scumread you/kill you' and I'm just drowning in it. There's just too much to read. This isn't what I signed up for. I thought this would be more like the Mario Maker newbie game which was way less intense.
Supposedly my reasoning is empty, but people choose to focus on a trivial matter, like how my writing seems coached. My way of playing the game is to write out my thoughts in an essay style analytical form. This to me also indicates cheetory is trying to bait a reaction to implicate me, which I don't really appreciate. And even if Cheetory isn't scum, there is guaranteed scum on this wagon and I can see how it's going to go. I give a genuine reaction on my thoughts, but people easily decide 'it's not good enough let's go ahead with killing Zaiden' even when there's clearly no issue with my line of reasoning. This might sound bad, but I just don't have time to separately engage and thoroughly research every single person in this game. At least within the space of 1-2 days. I find myself deeply in a lose lose situation. Respond to Cheetory and whoever else is accusing me, and they will literally pick out everything wrong I do, even if it's a townie error rather than a mafia error. If I choose not to respond, they will continue to say I am mafia precisely because I'm not responding. I'm being told something along the lines of "your logic is weak, your arguments make no sense", instead of having people try to consider things from my perspective. If you are town you should be open-minded to a lot of possibilities. It is not possible to have a rational argument in this game, only educated guesses, unless you're scum who clearly knows what is up. As far as I'm concerned, flirting around drives me nuts but it isn't necessarily alignment indicative and I was seeking to provoke discussion about Pooky who I don't know about and SpringBreeze who I don't know about. But no one tried to engage with me. And no one tried to answer anything I tried asking. What's wrong with that? I don't know if there's an ulterior motive, like if Team Hectic/Flopz/Hopkirk feels threatening to other people so you eject their fourth member to make them lose points. Because that's another possibility I'm considering for why there's traction against me.
From my perspective I think JakeTheWolf might have been faking conflict with Gamma too because they probably know early wagons will fizzle out. I think that's calculated because their reactions are way too opportunistic for me to otherwise explain. Gamma just rehashed Cheetory's general opinion to further lend into this general confirmation bias. The fact Cheetory is subconsciously manipulating Gamma or they're putting on a show to confuse people in absolutely not considering any other possibility screams mafia to me. Also Cheetory was voting Jake then hopped onto Gamma and the explanation they gave felt forced/fake to me. On the other hand SpringBreeze literally just opportunistically hopped onto this counter wagon against me for no real good reason either. Take that as you will. That's just opportunistic as heck. Also, the fact Cheetory is treating what he says himself, and what anti-Zaiden people say, as proof of evidence and fact, is dangerous. Deeper meanings that are non-existent are a massive overanalysis into nothing. Read into actions, rather than the words. However, I'm hardly in any position to provide proof. I can't make others see the bigger picture, because they've already chosen to actively ignore my attempts at advocating logic whilst dismissing anything I do as coached or mafia play. It's really lazy. Everything I do now can only be coached mafia in people's eyes, until further light can be shed on the matter. In short, I'm already trying to show people the bigger picture of how I play as a person, but they're refuse to see it and blame it on my inability to convince, instead choosing to believe the fake picture they have been presented with. Don't listen to what people say about coaching or weak arguments, because I really believe you are all being thoroughly misled by a narrative. The Emperor told his subjects he had new clothes, and even though in actuality he had none, they all pretended he was wearing them anyway because they believed only stupid people couldn't see the clothes. And it feels like that's a lot of players on here right now. I think my arguments are legitimate and I don't understand why they aren't.
Naturally, my arguments cannot have the capacity to be convincing, if peoples' opinion and views are essentially predetermined before they even get along to reading my arguments. As far as I can see, my inability to convince is more or less symptomatic of multiple mafia manipulating the course of this forum discussion that way. Driving a narrative that everyone's subscribed into. From my perspective, what is going on at the moment is complete insanity. Of course, that does not assuage any concerns regarding whether I actually am mafia or not. We should have like 1-2 more weeks to discuss, where I can hopefully convince people that we need to change our current approach to the game to hopefully be more accommodating.
I understand that lazy or noob town might be worth less, but what have I done to indicate that I am more deserving of a lynch, than others who are slinking back or the people who are clearly misdirecting a lynch onto me? Either ways, I am against the idea of voting for ejecting me today because reasons. Also, a townie has no reason to be as callous and denigrating as Cheetory in his interrogation of me - oh Zaiden would be useless anyway as the game goes on so it's a win win. Okay, I might be useless at this forum style. But you didn't have to say it like that. I don't really like you, you're a huge asshole and I'll be glad that I probably don't have to play with someone like you ever again once this game is over and done with. And my language would have been a lot more colourful if I wasn't at risk of getting modkilled for being rude. Don't think you and your scum buddies can get away with being so underhanded.- Zaiden
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Zaiden Goon
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@cheetory7, you can't have it both ways. Being an asshole to others and trying to make them crumble then pretending it's too much to take and pretending to be a victim here. Some people actually fight back when you try to invalidate their efforts and break down their self esteem. Don't think for a second I'm an easy target to pick on.- Zaiden
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Zaiden Goon
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Zaiden Goon
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Some reads don't make sense and when people don't bother explaining the only way to rationalise it in my mind is meta. So SFP full townreads SpringBreeze just because they feel like it and that's supposed to make total sense without any sort of justification? Wouldn't the gap in needing to explain anything therefore be meta? As for the lack of response over my queries on Pooky/SpringBreeze. Again, wouldn't the lack of any explaining anything be a gap that's filled in everyone else's mind by meta? Apparently Gamma was scumlean to some people because of being pedantic, which again sounds like a gap that's being filled with meta. Like why must being pedantic be a scum indicative thing? Because if you ask me, none of these responses (or the lack thereof) make any sense without using meta to explain why some players would hold a certain opinion. Because I'm being asked to take things at face value which I personally just can't take at face value in the absence of any actual explanation.In post 639, midwaybear wrote:
Who has been doing this? I might have missed this, but I haven’t really gotten the feeling that most people are using meta to scumread others.In post 635, Zaiden wrote:everyone else going off vibes from prior experience/be able to tell what player based scum slips are- Zaiden
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I did not vote SpringBreeze as a reaction to being voted by them in RVS. I was annoyed at the public flirting and thought putting some pressure on SpringBreeze could help tone that down, make them play in a way that would make more sense to me and give a reaction that could help me decide whether they were good or bad. Because nobody explained whether SpringBreeze's/Pooky/Nora's strange behaviour is normal. I have SpringBreeze at null because I think their reaction to me could also be annoyance, because I was calling them a simpathiser. But being annoyed is something both scum and town are capable of so I'm withholding my judgement for now. And the fact that no one else is calling them out made me think they're not doing what they're doing in bad faith either like I'd originally speculated.In post 641, Cheetory6 wrote:
So in my experience there's a spectrum of mafia playstyle between impulse and logic. Players who play off the cuff and use vibes to try to figure things out are generally easier to read off of their tone/activity.In post 635, Zaiden wrote:@cheetory you won't like it but that's just my playstyle for early. I don't think it's fair to expect someone to be able to write a doctorate thesis on deep reads when I have no history of playing with people here/knowing their habits. You say meta isn't important, but it feels like you expect me to somehow be the same as everyone else going off vibes from prior experience/be able to tell what player based scum slips are, which I would personally classify as meta. Like what even???
To me you fall on the wayyy other end of the spectrum of calculated and logical, which is fine, if that was unclear. It's just harder for me to get a handle on someone whose content-posting is a lot more curated/prepared.
(especially when I just want to be lazy and respond to everything without having to read back )
Digging into your votes so far, we've got:
1. An RVS vote on Pooky.
2. A vote on Spring which is essentially a reactionary vote to Spring voting you in RVS.
3. A vote on Jake for not engaging others in good faith.
The vote on Spring is a little odd because you came into the game with an RVS vote and seem to understand the implication that people in this game vote randomly. So to question Spring about why she voted you seems kind of like busywork? Can you walk me through what your thought process was there?
If Jake has a track record of being miselimmed regularly in the past, why would it take an approach of trying to pretend it's a LHF if it doesn't believe that's the case? Wouldn't that make it seem more suspicious? I don't really understand how that tracks.Zaiden wrote:3. I think we should be looking at Jake as a candidate for our D1 eject because they're saying it's bad to target LHF. At first I thought this meant he was referring to other players, and maybe he was protecting his own scum teammates from scrutiny. But after reading through it more carefully the LHF Jake was talking about was actually himself. I still don't think it's a good defence though or even a legitimate point against SPF. If I was accused of being LHF, my first reaction would be to prove I'm actually a HHF. Not to deflect like that.
I'm assuming this is referring to this yeah?:Zaiden wrote:Also he jumped straight to asking Gamma who should be killed to deflect attention away from himself/them. Imo this early on we should be asking who looks scummy, why are they scummy and observe further comments/replies they make. Then ask whether they should they be killed or if there are other more suspicious people. His line of logic does not follow that natural order I've just given. But Hectic and Hopkirk disagree with me. They think Jake seems pretty good, but I've been right before when they've been wrong so.
Why is it to deflect away from itself rather than to try to parse Gamma's biggest scumread? Gamma's seemed pretty opaque this game, so I'm curious why you felt this couldn't have been an attempt to get him to be more transparent about his thought process.In post 571, Jake The Wolfie wrote:Gamma! If you had to kill someone right now, who would it be?
Which other questions apply for this?Zaiden wrote:The questions they've asked seem pretty agenda driven to me.
I don't think you're bad at the game, if that was the implication you took from my posts. (though I think the worst thing I said was that your posting felt stilted so I'm not sure where this came from, maybe me being a dufus with the wendy's comment? q_q)In post 617, Zaiden wrote:I can understand why Cheetory would think I'm bad based off my opening post.
Also, can you drop some reads on other slots in the game/drop any other reads that your teammates have?
Next, what's to stop you and Jake from knowing this and coming up with some sort of plan to wagon Jake and point out: 'oh Jake usually gets miselimmed he must therefore be good' as you say. You say you don't buy into meta then proceed to use it too to explain why Jake could be good from your perspective. How convenient.
As for the Gamma comment, you say Gamma is opaque like that's something obvious. You say this clearly knowing I don't know who Gamma is or how they usually play. You surely know that to me Gamma is a mystery I need to solve for the most part, just like anyone else in this game. Again is this not meta? The impression I'm getting here is 'meta bad' unless it's meta you've personally curated as being relevant. Again, awfully convenient and I do not think your previous statements on meta were made in good faith.
For agenda driven questions from Jake, asking 'Gamma! If you had to kill someone right now, who would it be?' was clearly some pretext to criticise Gamma for whatever they said and stick a vote onto them. They ask the same question more than once and 'bait' a response (don't know how much of this is real or just an act) so that they can quickly shift their vote and say 'Gamma bad'. "How does pressuring a LHF help you sort them?" - I think the answer is self-evident to me Jake is trying to cast doubt on SPF's efforts that could help generate more discussion/interactions. Then they draw attention to another LHF - "Where is PrivateI?". Why specifically PrivateI over other players who had been similarly less active at the time that post was made? Also subtly pulls attention onto PrivateI and away from themselves/the wagon they were experiencing at the time. It might seem trivial but I can see it for what it is.
"If you feel this way about Gamma on reread, where does that put your reaction to Jake's questioning/vote on him?" - originally thought it was SvT because it looks like Jake asked the same questions to bait out a reaction from my POV. But now given some more context and further developments I'm wondering how much of that was premeditated and planned out to look convincing.
"Feels more like you're applying a calculation to what your read on Spring should be, rather than a genuine feeling as to whether someone is or isn't mafia." - I'm uncertain because I have varying degress of inklings on who is good, who is bad. And anyone I'm struggling to get alignment indicative inklings from is null. Less active people or people posting in a style which I cannot fathom often end up here. Such as Pooky and SpringBreeze and Nora since I'm struggling to understand their whimsical logic/statements and where they're coming from, even after I've tried to extract reactions from Pooky and SpringBreeze + information about them from others to no avail. From what I can tell it doesn't mean that they are inherently good/bad. Rather I can't understand them. And as I said previously the fact that no one else is calling them out made me think they're not doing what they're doing in bad faith either like I'd originally speculated.
Finally, I will give my teammates' opinions when I can. Hectic hasn't responded. I've asked Hopkirk for reads and he says he'll try to take a look tomorrow, and that he thought I might have been a bit harsh on cheety. Flopz is focused on his own game but told me to give it a break for a night and that I'm not being myself. I will answer more questions tomorrow but I'll need to got to bed for now. Goodnight.- Zaiden
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Zaiden Goon
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Yeah I had a look back and realised I was talking about MariaR. Apologies about that, I got it mixed up.In post 836, midwaybear wrote:
I'm going to assume you are talking about MariaR here. I think the way she presented the read leaves room for the method she used. Perhaps it was a meta read, but Maria could also have found some of Spring's posts townie independent of such. It's definitely understandable that Maria hiding the reasoning doesn't sit right.In post 830, Zaiden wrote:So SFP full townreads SpringBreeze just because they feel like it and that's supposed to make total sense without any sort of justification? Wouldn't the gap in needing to explain anything therefore be meta?
Yeah, I explained the dynamic between them earlier. Take a look at 638. This is the one example of meta being used as a read that I will acknowledge.In post 830, Zaiden wrote:As for the lack of response over my queries on Pooky/SpringBreeze. Again, wouldn't the lack of any explaining anything be a gap that's filled in everyone else's mind by meta?
Being pedantic isn't scum indicative. Jake's vote was not a good vote for that reason.In post 830, Zaiden wrote:Apparently Gamma was scumlean to some people because of being pedantic, which again sounds like a gap that's being filled with meta. Like why must being pedantic be a scum indicative thing?
Yeah, so it seems that sometimes you interpret scumreads/townreads on others as meta when it isn't really. Earlier in this game, you talked about catching scum based on inconsistencies. Can you talk more on that?In post 830, Zaiden wrote:Because I'm being asked to take things at face value which I personally just can't take at face value in the absence of any actual explanation.
Because I don't see pedantic as being alignment indicative without additional context of past behaviour. I think it's a very difficult question to answer myself on who I would outright kill so if I was asked I would hesitate too (and maybe get called pedantic for it) because the intentions behind Jake's question - three times too - seem loaded as heck. Especially since it's so early on and we have very little to go off. You can easily pin an ulterior motive on anyone. Compared to structuring it like 'You getting bad vibes from anyone? If so, why? What are your underlying reasons to think along those lines and do any particular interactions stand out to you?'. Now the way Gamma chose to answer wasn't ideal but I didn't think that pedantic reaction was unwarranted from my POV.
"you interpret scumreads/townreads on others as meta" - not really. Just townreads/scumreads that seem to have no underlying basis to them. And there's a whole lot of those in this game. So to me the gap/lack of logic in some reads can only be bridged by meta I don't know that you all take as a given.
When I say inconsistencies obviously scum aren't going to make this mistake every time but I've played in a few open setups where someone was pressured and they oddly assumed an exact number of scum even though it wasn't specified by the mods anywhere. And that led to them being ejected then flipping scum. Other than that there's also really odd backtracks, night actions being incronguous with another claim and questionably suboptimal usage of some power roles. Like I get people are going to sometimes make random choices because we don't know what the mafia are going to do but then there comes a point in statistics where it just doesn't add up. To give an analogy like that Minecraft's person's statistically improbable speedrun I keep seeing talked about in YouTube videos. I'm not sure if people who play mafia an absolute ton like many of you guys here would make that kind of mistake but it surely must happen once every blue moon.- Zaiden
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Zaiden Goon
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Your friend has amazing taste. After Story is my top No.1 undisputed favourite anime. Literally changed my life and no other anime comes close.In post 940, staypositivefriend wrote:@zaiden -
one of my partners (super) says that you are hard town and that she feels bad for the pressure you're under. she wants to be in the same game as you because she's a big fan of clannad too- Zaiden
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Zaiden Goon
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Not yet. They said they'll have a look and provide some reads after they're done with stuff they need to do during the day. Same with me tbh. I will take a clearer look over the new pages/old pages once I'm done with other obligations post-work. I also need to watch the latest Attack on Titan episode with some real life people over Discord. At a cursory glance I suspect there's backtracking going on since people realised I wasn't an easy target anymore and went for Nora instead because maybe they're perceived as another easy target to attack. But I would need to extensively read into these responses/Nora's activities to have more concrete thoughts/analysis.In post 988, midwaybear wrote:
People are sometimes inconsistent, and it isn’t always clear which alignment the inconsistencies come from. Real slips are pretty rare yeah.In post 986, Zaiden wrote:but it surely must happen once every blue moon.
Do you have any thoughts based off of the past few pages. Did your teammates get back anything to you?
I'm not convinced by Jake's response in 948 I think instantly slamming a vote for lack of content could be seen as more questionable while baiting a response then slamming a vote makes it seem more justified. It seems a bit calculated to me. I'm also saying calling another player to come and play seems scummy because you're drawing attention away from yourself to potentially their lack of activity. A bit like 'Oh look this person's kind of flying under the radar don't people think?' as a way of subtly deflecting from yourself. Or calling them to your side because you think you can rely on them to back you up/help you out. Like Jake didn't answer why this player in particular over other less active players? Is it because you specifically wanted to generate an interaction and make both of you come across a certain to the rest of the lobby?
To address the final point I suppose it's easier to force inconsistencies in real life I guess because you pressure a person on the spot to give an answer and they have less time to improvise townie thoughts or reactions. It's a shame that's less possible online but I guess that's just how it is.- Zaiden
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Zaiden Goon
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Hello. I've come back from watching Attack on Titan's latest episode. It was fucking amazing. It feels like I'm watching history in the making (just don't let me down like GoT did). And I've cooled off since yesterday. I would like to apologise to Cheetory. I've been dealing with personal issues feeling like I'm only a second choice for Flopz, Hectic and Hopkirk because they never invited me last year. Then being told I was useless and would probably be eliminated for being useless even if I was town by Cheetory didn't help. My team didn't realise this was my thought process and have since clarified with me they picked me only because I'm truly their really good friend and that they still chose me over other mafiascum players who might be technically better at this game but they still chose me because of how long our friendships go back. So I'm grateful to them and apologise for doubting my friends and lashing out at Cheetory because it was really just an issue of me being really overwhelmed in a bad mental state and struggling to internalise stuff. Cheetory if you are not scum putting on a show and are fellow town I hope I can make it up to you sometime. If you are scum who are putting on a show, I'll be pissed off but fair play and I still hope to make it up to you if I did hurt your scum feelings.
Anything I've referenced from Hectic/Hopkirk came in at about 8pm GMT. I started writing this at 10pm GMT but got distracted and played 2 ARAM games on League of Legends (because end on a win). So the final ARAM roughly finished at 0:30am? At the time I finished writing this up it was 1:45am my time and I need to get up early so rip me but I made a promise to make a post so whatever.
First off, I will focus on recent developments following my last post yesterday then reach far back to the early stages of the game after that. I like Morning Tweet's entrance so far they're a lot more active than Clidd but I'm not convinced about this push onto Nora being scum because I could believe the idea she's being pushed onto as an easy target the way I was made out as an easy target. However Morning Tweet lays out and explain the meta reason (please do this if you're using meta because if you don't say it I can't know) that apparently Nora is sitting back and spectating which is atypical for them? And then Nora kind of reacted by getting engaged into the game, which tells me this meta read must be true because otherwise Nora would have presumably said 'Bullshit. Your accusations are wrong scum!'. Also Murdersunny corroborates on this by saying Nora could very well be changing their meta but that they think it's NAI. Both Hectic and Hopkirk were confused why Nora (and anyone else) thought I was Hectic because he was clearly in another game. But her asking me twice about Hectic's read in what came across as good faith felt townie to them. They're flipping on a lot of their reads and it seems like paranoia to me. I don't think I've seen scum flip flop between reads that hard and that fast so based on my real life experience I feel inclined to believe this is town behaviour. Though I have no prior experience with them and if they've had a record of doing this as scum then I will have to reconsider that point.
For Pooky I've been told relaying Koba's real times thoughts then 180'ing on SPF seemed authentic because SPF has good reads as town. I haven't received any suggestion this is alignment indicative or anything but I thought the Pooky/SPF interaction segment was a genuine conversation where they got to a mutual understanding and agreed to hunt scum together. I've also been told to let Pooky solve Kanna. Though they were disgruntled over a technicality about a recent game where they reckon Pooky cheated because they were actually masons with Kanna. I've been told to townlock Kanna for now because Pooky has townlocked them (unless it's a joke which they do not believe it is). Hopkirk reckons Kanna probably doesn’t make 538 as scum? Though they didn't really explain much and I'm not seeing how this Pooky reads Kanna thing is supposed to work. So I won't townlock SpringBreeze like they recommended because what my team told me here about 'soul masons' was a load of gibberish that made no fucking sense to me.
For the Cakez discussion, I felt it was odd that Cakes held onto this stance they supposedly always had in 848 and only came out with it when it was convenient. So I want to ask Cakez, why did you decide to sit on those thoughts? Also Hectic says what Cakez has done so far seems pretty fakeable because they lack explanations or underlying reasonings. Hopkirk said they got off 'swagger' vibes from Cakez's early posts. As if their main concern was looking confident more than anything else. According to Hopkirk there's a chance Cakez was trying to pocket me because they keep asserting I'm genuine but they could also flip that at a moment's notice whenever they feel like if I say they don’t like. I could totally see that being a possibility. One of the scums on my wagon playing bad cop while Cakez is playing good cop.
Also with reference to Clidd both Hopkirk and Hectic told me that scum are more likely to sub out - which also makes wary of Morning Tweet. And given the game state it seemed convenient they would immediately attack on Nora seemed quite opportunistic to me. And also it adds to my scumlean on Cheetory who said they were considering subbing out. Although Hectic and Hopkirk are divided on Cheetory. Hectic thinks Cheetory's anger comes from a genuine place where it seems like he doesn't know my alignment hence I've been attacked over the possibility of 'theatreeing' as scum. Hopkirk thinks that Cheetory's early vote on Gamma doesn't strike him as genuine town trying to form a read + his subsequent progression in logic for reads and votes doesn't across as natural. I feel like taking Hopkirk's side on this one. Even if we set aside anything personal from yesterday I don't trust Cheetory or believe they are acting in good faith. If I didn't respond to their questions immediately to me it was one post among many and I was feeling very overwhelmed by dozens of posts at the time.
Hopkirk told me he's less confident about his reads on Morning Tweet and Jake and to defer to Hectic. Hectic liked what Morning's doing in 873 and 904. She knows Murder is good at reading Noraa, and knows Pooky is good at reading Kanna, so the questions are meaningful to him. Hectic reckons based on 656 if Nora is scum, one of the scum would be one of Jake or Jingle because scum tend to be hyper aware of their partner, so she could mistake people commenting on Jake as commenting on Jingle, but it's unlikely she would make the same mistake if Jake is scum and Jingle is town. I understood what he meant about being hyper aware but I didn't get how that affects the likelihood of making mistakes. In this scenario Hectic showed a preference to Jingle being town because 865 and 877 showed he didn't care about rubbing people the wrong way and openly admitted to that, which scum would be more interested in avoiding. I didn't like Jingle's interaction with MWB comparing my wagon with Nora's in 883 and whether that was framed a dichotomy of two choices when I think there should be more options for wagons on the table. Also I'm confused how Jingle came around to a PB townread. They don't explain much here but I assume it's because of PB's support on Nora's wagon? I don't follow the logic of how that led to that particular townread. For Nora's vote on Jingle, I have no idea whether Jingle is a good player and whether they are playing below their standards? Didn't see this was an OMGUS until Cakez pointed that out - but is the OMGUS here alignment indicative for Nora? I wouldn't know but don't get the impression OMGUS would be AI is based on how hard Nora flip flop between their town/scum reads?
Finally I do agree with Hopkirk and Hectic that Gypx was shading me really hard. I didn't even realise Gypyx was throwing shade at me until they pointed it out. I want to take this moment to clearly state I wasn't and am not being coached in the forum mafia definition sense. And even if I was, from Hopkirk/Hectic POV it's completely normal for new/less experienced players to be guided by their veteran seniors and it doesn't necessarily indicate alignment. Trying to frame it as a scum thing and justifying it in 238 and 241 is extremely scummy and uncharacteristically lazy of Gypyx from their POV. Honestly, I agree. I didn't see it before but they was really trying to take advantage of me in a really underhanded and slimy way. So I'll be moving my vote onto that scumbag since this is the one of the scumreads my team has come to agree upon.
Vote: Gypyx- Zaiden
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Zaiden Goon
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Hey Nora, Hectic heard your pleas. He has told me something along the line that you're not trying to be too fluffy, sunshine and rainbows early on and its town indicative. He's reluctant to push the idea angry = town for you because he reckon you know that and could fake it although he doesn't really think you're faking it so far in this game. Make of that what you will. But I don't think Hectic's read is really important here because it doesn't sound very logical (because I personally think you have been quite fluffy/sunshine/rainbow in your approach) not to mention what he said hasn't really influenced my thought process. My personal read on you is townie for different reasons which I've given, though you may not be convinced by it becayse I'm trying to work with what I have having played a bunch of social deduction games in real life compared to forum.In post 1223, Noraa wrote:
OH god wtf is this. Hectic please send help asap if ur buddy Zaidan here is actually town. this paragraph be dumpster fire :/In post 1195, Zaiden wrote:Hopkirk told me he's less confident about his reads on Morning Tweet and Jake and to defer to Hectic. Hectic liked what Morning's doing in 873 and 904. She knows Murder is good at reading Noraa, and knows Pooky is good at reading Kanna, so the questions are meaningful to him. Hectic reckons based on 656 if Nora is scum, one of the scum would be one of Jake or Jingle because scum tend to be hyper aware of their partner, so she could mistake people commenting on Jake as commenting on Jingle, but it's unlikely she would make the same mistake if Jake is scum and Jingle is town. I understood what he meant about being hyper aware but I didn't get how that affects the likelihood of making mistakes. In this scenario Hectic showed a preference to Jingle being town because 865 and 877 showed he didn't care about rubbing people the wrong way and openly admitted to that, which scum would be more interested in avoiding. I didn't like Jingle's interaction with MWB comparing my wagon with Nora's in 883 and whether that was framed a dichotomy of two choices when I think there should be more options for wagons on the table. Also I'm confused how Jingle came around to a PB townread. They don't explain much here but I assume it's because of PB's support on Nora's wagon? I don't follow the logic of how that led to that particular townread. For Nora's vote on Jingle, I have no idea whether Jingle is a good player and whether they are playing below their standards? Didn't see this was an OMGUS until Cakez pointed that out - but is the OMGUS here alignment indicative for Nora? I wouldn't know but don't get the impression OMGUS would be AI is based on how hard Nora flip flop between their town/scum reads?
For what MWB said about these arguments being weak for Hectic/Hopkirk being my teammates, I did leave out their reads that weren't contextual to the recent convo/developments at the time because my post was already getting bloated. I will look to talk about them over the rest of today. If MWB meant the points I took from them that I raised on an individual by individual basis, that was literally all I have to work with. If this is 'weak' or if people expected more I'm sorry. I'm trying but this is literally what my team has given me, and I've tweaked everything a bit because apparently we're not allowed to directly quote, but I think I've done alright in getting across the original spirit of what Hectic/Hopkirk were intending so that shouldn't be the issue.- Zaiden
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Zaiden Goon
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I have no idea why my team put me in this specific game then. Though I've never met players like you guys in real life so there's no way for me/Hectic/Hopkirk/Flopz to know how much I was going to struggle.In post 1358, PookyTheMagicalBear wrote:
i cant believe hectic recruited you for his team im going to murder him the next time i see himIn post 1195, Zaiden wrote:what my team told me here about 'soul masons' was a load of gibberish that made no fucking sense to me.- Zaiden
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I've gone over some of the earlier pages to read over stuff because I never properly read through the earlier portions of the game. Here are some of Pages 1-5 thoughts from my perspective:
SPF could have easily chosen to have flooded the discussion and completely dominated discourse because people would have chalked it down to their usual? They remained actively involved but not at the expense of preventing others from speaking up and in retrospect I think that's been good. +townpointsIn post 24, staypositivefriend wrote:thanks! i think i played half a game w/you on epicmafia that i ended up replacing out of
i'm excited to be here but i also tend to flood the thread aloton my homesite, so i'm taking a more restrained approach and going w/the flow
If this is some meme, that explains why Hopkirk would always say this in real life mafia.
Brazen thing to say so early on. It makes me feel uneasy and I would feel pretty stupid if SPF actually was. But would scum be that... brave? I'm the kind of player in Avalon/Resistance who would publicly declare I'm Merlin from the get go even as Merlin. But I don't know if I'd have the balls to say that as scum. +townpointsIn post 34, staypositivefriend wrote:
iIn post 31, PookyTheMagicalBear wrote:
I do that a lotIn post 28, staypositivefriend wrote:
yeah prolly, i remember you hardtunneling me early onIn post 25, PookyTheMagicalBear wrote:were you the one I was going to dayvig until koba talked me out of it :3
should I do that here?
are you a baddie?
you don't have to lie to me we r all friends here.ama baddie, and nobody is ever going to believe u
I think MWB could have been more subtle about it? If you tell someone you plan to make them slip up on something, why wouldn't they just take that into account and do the opposite? I think it would be more in scum's interest to virtue signal 'Oh look, I'm doing scum hunting here how about that' instead of quietly scum hunting and letting scum demonstrate behaviour which would verify these inklings. And like why not actually pressure Nora with a vote here if there was any intention of doing what was said? +scumpointsIn post 35, midwaybear wrote:
A little. I heard that you dislike rolling scum, so wanted to make a post in that direction.In post 32, Noraa wrote:also is this shade that I see?
I don't know if that was the line of thought S_S had but if what I mentioned before was their reasoning behind saying this, I agree with this line of logic +townpointsIn post 46, Something_Smart wrote:Sources say that midway is very scummy.
I haven't read anything yet.
I like puns. But I agree that these puns about peaches are awful. I admit I was personally offended when you said I wasn't funny, but I personally find your deadpan snarkiness quite funny. For some reason I also get some cognitive dissonance from your KPop profile pic. Because I always had this image that KPop fans are bubbly - kind of like Nora and their peach nomming and trying to soothe me down. Whereas you're quite blunt and sarcastic.In post 64, MariaR wrote:The fact this game is a pun about peaches is awful and anyone who laughed I'm going to vote. Step right up handing em out
Would scum stack a wagon so quickly and so obviously? From my experience in real life they tend to be a lot more lowkey about it. I agree with MWB's follow up that the votes on Cheetory feel forced. But I don't think it's alignment indicative. At some point, we're eventually going to want to stack votes to pressure responses out of people and it was always going to happen eventually.In post 74, SirCakez wrote:VOTE: cheet
I can't forgive you for what you did to me in the fifth fortnight
I think the scrutiny seems over the top for what I thought was an innocuous third vote/generate the first wagon and further discussion. I want to ask, is it a bad thing to force that stage of the game? I'm not very keyed in on why random voting stage is important and why it's such an issue to create a wagon (since isn't a wagon just eventually happen inevitably, inexorably anyway?). But I think there's some real intent to investigate underlying motives and get some thoughts out of people. +townpointsIn post 92, midwaybear wrote:
Can you explain your progression on me?In post 89, Cheetory6 wrote:midway and s_s are both in my pile of townleans that will be completely useless by page 7.
In that respect I can actually see the progression in Cheetory's logic here. Where the first few things MWB said seemed off but their follow up was good. +townpoints.In post 93, Cheetory6 wrote:i looked at your first few posts and thought "i want to vote for this guy"
and then i looked at your first few posts again and thought "i do not want to vote for this guy".
According to Hectic apparently Jake and Nora don't really like each other much so he reckons scum Jake is less likely to beef her out of nowhere like he did here. +townpoints.
I read this as SPF interacting with Jake in very good faith. +townpoints.In post 119, staypositivefriend wrote:
what areIn post 116, Jake The Wolfie wrote:Anyway Louise, what are your thoughts about the wagon of 3 on me?yourthoughts? do you think anyone is pushing on you opportunistically?- Zaiden
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Don't ask me. I'm literally repeating what Hectic said because people asked for their opinions.In post 1395, Noraa wrote:
uh...............?In post 1393, Zaiden wrote:According to Hectic apparently Jake and Nora don't really like each other much so he reckons scum Jake is less likely to beef her out of nowhere like he did here. +townpoints.- Zaiden
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Yes please.In post 1399, Something_Smart wrote:
That was a teammate read. I can ask said teammate which post gave that impression, if you want.In post 1393, Zaiden wrote:I don't know if that was the line of thought S_S had- Zaiden
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Thanks! Issue is it wants a specific pixel dimension. asdiufhqweiurhqwelrujbasdf. Not sure I can be bothered to resize an image through Photoshop rn.In post 1398, Noraa wrote:user control panel -> Profile -> edit avatar- Zaiden
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Ms MariaR, I don't feel so good. 0_0In post 1431, MariaR wrote:I was reviewing some peoples pages on my google doc and I was laughing at how I had one person just labeled as 'Will never be helpful just Elim or clear down the line' I think I wrote that at 1 in the morning or something.
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Woah, slow down there. Think about the potential collateral damage here. You are very scary indeed. But honestly, I welcome this. Come at me with the Wall War! I'll get back to you tomorrow. Live Colourised Footage of MariaR destroying Wall Maria:In post 1456, MariaR wrote:As the queen of ate I can help point pure ate from legit but do I want to get into a wall war with Zaiden? It sounds kinda fun given how bland this game has been. But then people will start asking me to read my notes and that's a Y A W N.
VOTE: Zaiden
La la la
pedit: Preach
You can say I'm being selective. From my perspective, I'm being overwhelmed by homework and am prioritising the most pressing assignments with the closest deadlines. Only more homework keeps piling on as I'm working on the due ones. Through the advice my team have given me plus what Nora said about coming back more calm I'm trying to address this by working through pages in chunks. I'm setting a goal for myself to go through 10 pages a day. I will get to addressing everything directed at me.In post 1451, Cheetory6 wrote:2. I mean there's the possibility that you're just mafia not wanting to rock the boat until end of cycle with this Spring Breeze case while getting to coast through on eventually presenting it, is my big concern.
I feel like the cat was out of the bag the moment you voted Spring and said you had a big case, but like if you want to hold it and face 10x scrutiny from me later in the cycle then that's fine.
3. Do you think Dann is better at reading you than Jingle?
p-edit: I don't particularly want to case Zaiden again tbh.
I will say that there is a certain dodginess in terms of his interaction that feels really off and I'm honestly like.. really surprised nobody else has pointed out just how much Zaiden is selectively choosing what he does and does not respond to.
Wonder what specifically in Spring Breeze's interactions with SPF would tip off Pink Ball here. It's true I'm not convinced by my team's talk with me about town locks or soul masons. But I wanted to ask. I have SPF as townlean. If SPF wasn't scum, would your read on Spring Breeze being scum still be logically consistent? If that holds true then I want to hear how or why.In post 1459, Pink Ball wrote:
Is scumreading you being unfair with you? Don't play the victim, I have stated a scumread on you, that I'm very confident on it and nothing else. My job will be to convince everyone that you're scum, and your job will be to convince everyone that you're not, and that's about it. That's not unfair, I'm not being an asshole to you or treating you poorly or nothing. If you want to focus on one player who is scumreading you that's on you, I have my rights to keep my reasoning to myself until I think it's more convenient to share it.In post 1457, Spring Breeze wrote:i feel like you’re treating me very unfairly pink ball and it’s a little unpleasant
I disengaged because my team begged me to. I was extremely tempted to ignore them because I was livid but they mean a lot to me so I acquiesced and cooled off. You can choose not to believe me but obviously don't know me personally. Yes, I have massive self-esteem issues I'm trying to work on. But I can recognise when I've done wrong and apologise for it. And it's also easier to do that when I've had a night to sleep it off.In post 1464, Cheetory6 wrote:Also just like a thing I've been keeping close to chest because it's kind of eh but
I just don't really believe the whole big curated anger post thing when he's shown he's comfortable posting small too.
Like, if I'm angry and I'm getting into it with someone, I'm not going to wait a day and a half to respond to someone when they respond to something I've said.
This post indicates that he's willing to get into it:
Which makes me think that him subsequently disengaging and not addressing anything I've posted since just feels... very off to me and I don't really believe any of his posts calling me mafia.In post 808, Zaiden wrote:@cheetory7, you can't have it both ways. Being an asshole to others and trying to make them crumble then pretending it's too much to take and pretending to be a victim here. Some people actually fight back when you try to invalidate their efforts and break down their self esteem. Don't think for a second I'm an easy target to pick on.
I really think that someone in that position should instead still be very mad at me and responding.
It just does not feel like a real timeline of someone who is seethingly mad at someone for something.
Hectic is literally obligated to townread me here and I'm still waiting for the Hopkirk stuff to pick apart so that's where I'm at.
I could case this like 100x harder but I frankly don't really want to deal with whatever he's going to spew back at me by potentially misinterpreting me again (whether intentionally or not?) and I'd rather read and recenter at this point than just spend the entire game getting into it with someone who people aren't really choosing to engage me on.
p-edit:
I think scumhunting is the hardest thing for mafia to fake, so, it's very difficult for me to get a gauge of your play when you're unwilling to actively push a scumread.Pink Ball wrote:2. Do you think I've been coasting through? I stated who's my biggest scumread and I've focused on the rest of the game 'cause I already caught one scum.
Anyway, I understand why elitists would be vexated or frustrated when a noob comes to play. And there's fear of an unknown quantity. But come at it from the perspective of a totally inexperienced player. Unlike the Newbie games it's just really damn hostile around here. No one wants you and everyone thinks you're useless/shit/don't give you any time to try and learn. Also I'm certain I did not misinterpret you. Just like how MariaR and S_S have said nasty things about my posting, let's not stoop low and pretend these nasty comments didn't happen. You guys did. If you continue to refuse owning up to it that says more about all of you and your lack of accountability than it does me. I've also tried to extend an olive branch. You don't have to accept it, but not my problem if you choose to shoot it down. Which I'm taking you are. If you are mafia, this course of action makes a lot of sense. Continue letting the drama unfold to clog the game and to have a good reason for avoiding interactions with me further down the line. This also suits scum!Cheetory because I'm coming off looking worse off between the two of us.
I was told to post small by other people in this thread/my team. As for posting big, I posted smaller before that. Again an attempt to vilify and misrepresent me. The mega post was literally my breaking point of fuck everyone in this game from getting constantly ignored, unpleasantly hard shaded by others and scrutinised for reasons I perceived to be unfair. And getting overwhelmed by page after pages of posts. I was also hugely tilted from missing out on Gold IV by 2 LP despite starting off my placement games winning 4/4 then losing the rest - meaning I will have to play through a coin flip sequence of promotion games to reach Gold. I also had been told during dinner that my laugh was embarrassing by my father. So I was feeling like utter shit at the time. But being able to call friends and watching Yuru Camp cleanses the soul.
I can't speak for Hectic/Hopkirk and why they would read you that way. Only they would know. But I should mention Hopkirk's busy because he has a job/social commitments with uni societies/a life outside mafiascum through the week. I've already said my piece on why I have reservations about you. Expect a follow up from him this weekend.
I can agree that Jingle is definitely off. But I want to iterate I'm not involved with any of this shady shizz. I feel like Cheetory is trying to frame it as Jingle = scum, Zaiden = scum and then I will be unfairly offed by association if Jingle flips scum. I think this could help prove I've got nothing to do with Jingle. Or people will come up with their take on why not. Want to iterate if I had the power to raise two fresh wagons assuming there were none on the table it'd be Gypyx/Cheetory. Cakez as a third choice because they might have been trying to good cop me earlier in the game to Cheetory's bad cop routine. These are my top 3 scumreads at present though I can accept there's a good chance not all of them are scum. But I think one or more of them definitely had to be acting in bad faith when engaging with me. And to me if Cakez flips scum then Cheetory is likely to be scum.In post 1486, Cheetory6 wrote:
hell yeahIn post 1485, SirCakez wrote:if Zaiden is indeed scum it is definitely with Jingle I think
Vote: Jingle- Zaiden
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Thanks man. Tbh I was seriously contemplating throwing myself out of the window at when I was playing horribly 1 kill/9 deaths on Viktor in my ranked placement and my top lane Chogath told me to kill myself. The curse of ending on a win can sometimes be too much. Again, thanks. I can appreciate it when people are kind enough to go beyond the game and say these kinds of nice things, regardless of whatever alignment they end up being.
Also have some mofu mofu Cakez.
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They pointed out you called me useless first, yes. And I was down to patch things over because they told me there was no use beefing too hard or getting stressed over forum mafia and to try and have fun. But way you remain in denial and haven't apologised whatsoever is extremely dishonest to me that it actually goes beyond beggar's belief that I'm seriously struggling to respect their request here.In post 1562, Cheetory6 wrote:
So your teammates have looked at the post that you're saying I was a dickhead in and have agreed with you.In post 1560, Zaiden wrote:If you continue to refuse owning up to it that says more about all of you and your lack of accountability than it does me.- Zaiden
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I'm a walking miselim waiting to happen? What else can that imply other than I'm useless fucking baggage that will hurt town's chances of winning. It's so bad that I'm just a detriment to town no matter what I try to do. Maybe I really am better off dead so people can see the game state for what it is.In post 589, Cheetory6 wrote: pp-edit: the guy is literally a walking miselim waiting to happen when people run out of slots to push.
And you literally said my attempts at engaging were shit (I guess true in retrospect) or that it was an issue with my personality (low blow) but that there was no way I could make it to endgame because of how shit I am as a player. Yay, I love being told I'm shit at this game as if I don't know it already. Couldn't you just have been nice, given me some space/time to reply when I was clearly getting overwhelmed and told me what I could improve at instead of just writing me off like that?In post 591, Cheetory6 wrote:zaiden yes.
his engagement is surface level.
it could just be a personality thing, but there's literally no way you can get to endgame playing like that.- Zaiden
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It's a curse. Many of my friends play it so it's hard to get out. Because the highs are really high even when the lows are catastrophic. And those high highs do feel pretty good. And once I hit Gold IV I will probably leave it at that. To be fair, I am a noob at forum. My point of contention is that I'm not useless. I'm trying my best to contribute and maybe my best isn't enough but it's frustrating because I feel like I've been readily dismissed and made an easy target out of. I'm trying really hard but it feels like no one's acknowledging my efforts not to mention I'm somehow looking bad after everything I'm trying to do so I'm clearly doing something wrong. It was silly and conceited of me to think this would be similar to the Newbie Game when everyone's on a whole different level from that so I just have to try and up my efforts because I owe it to my friends for believing in me and the town.In post 1570, Pink Ball wrote:Love the meme, but now I see why you could be scum based on that answer to Maria, but meh you're fun you can stay.
I don't see you as a noob by the way. My only piece of advice, and this is only for you:
Spoiler: Zaiden only
Also I made that meme knowing that some people could try 'readin' deeply into the meaning behind my response/meme and try to pin down something on me. To be honest, I'd also been told by my team that MariaR’s push felt like it made sense from her perspective even if they don't get it (this was about 2 days ago) so +townpoints. And to be honest, I'm not sure if they are right because I certainly don't understand it and feel deeply suspicious about the push/their agenda. Clearly part of it is motivated by a dislike for the way I post - or is that just a convenient pretext to excuse having me eliminated when I eventually flip town? So engaging with Maria will help me figure that out - whether she's coming from a genuinely town angle or whether she sees me as this easy newbie to throw under the bus.- Zaiden
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I guess it can be really hard to convey tone online because the way you post is generally snarky so I played that back in my head with a snarky tone. I can also understand where you come from about an unknown person being a sensible choice to eliminate because you don't know them/don't know their meta because this happens in real life social deduction too. However, I've come at it twice from the other perspective. Being the new and unknown person who's scared of better players taking advantage of them and throwing them under the bus. It's hard to trust others. Though when I was an exec at my uni's Mafia Soc (those were the days with Hectic) I was scum and brutally betrayed the new freshers who placed their complete trust in me. That was quite funny.In post 1578, Cheetory6 wrote:I don't really think I would infuse anyway near as much negative connotation with the phrase walking miselim but I can get disliking me having said that.
Referring back to another one of my posts, I said that people on this site generally have a harder time reading logical players (or at least I felt like it was part of what was making you harder to read for me), and that was a part of where I was coming from in saying that, on top of you being a new player that nobody here knows. When people can't understand someone, that makes them a lot easier to eliminate. That's a large basis of where I was coming from in that post.
I also think that surface level engagement is pretty commonplace for someone who's inexperienced with site culture and getting to know a playerbase, (and also mafia, which was part of the point of me saying that) it doesn't really have anything to do with someone being shit at the game.
There aren't many players that I would actively call shit at the game.
If you're unsure of what I mean from a post just like poke me about it in the future. If I'm actively trying to be an asshole to you, it'll probably be a lot more obvious, I promise.
But from those types of experiences I know all too well how easy it is to frame the new person, have them suspected then killed off - in which case where would that take people's reads if that new player flipped town? They will accept there were many legitimate reasons for removing that person and it would be difficult to sift the ulterior motives from the genuine believers. And also differentiating people who clearly know I'm good because they're scum aligning themselves away from the miselim from people who genuinely thought I was good because they read me as town. Although I've got a good sense for who's tried to approach me from an angle of bad faith, I think my demise would still be a pretty bad outcome.
I really appreciate the considerations you've shown in your responses. And as I said, I apologise for lashing out and making you feel terrible because from the general reactions it was a misunderstanding on my own end and you didn't mean it.- Zaiden
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In post 1596, MariaR wrote:You want me to tryhard for a post and take you down Zaiden? Really want me to start trying? Okay prep yourself.- Zaiden
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I'm not so confident there's exactly 1 mafia in that pile like you're saying. But I can buy into the idea that that there could be one one given the unusual intensity of their interactions and it's been bugging me since their first few interactions earlier in the game. I'm also down to dive deeper here though I think there's other cases that are wider in the open.In post 1635, Cheetory6 wrote:
I'm going to take the controversial and unbrave stance of there being exact one mafia in the pile of Pink Ball/Spring Breeze and that can be an end of day sorting problem.
I agree that Jake has been sitting back a bit now when the scrutiny shifted from them to me/Jingle. They've offered some takes which mainly consist of flinging dirt at myself and Jingle + less active players. That seems rather driven by survival as opposed to genuine scum hunting.In post 1635, Cheetory6 wrote:
I haven't done a Jake ISOdive yet but it feels like its done nothing since it was pushed and it feels like Jake's trying to coast its way through the game.
This is literally what I said about how they said 'Oh look wonder what PrivateI thinks' to draw away attention from himself and onto others earlier this game. He seems very content with going under the radar and trying to use other less active players to try and deflect attention from themselves. To me this is scummy. Though when others say that Jake usually seems suspicious and dies early as town, it makes me wonder if this is just how they usually are as town. Would need others more familiar with Jake to weigh in for their thoughts.In post 835, Jake The Wolfie wrote:
No, I don't.In post 831, midwaybear wrote:In post 829, Jake The Wolfie wrote:Why did you choose to go after me in particular?Because I'm scared of Pooky
Your vote on Gamma wasn't great, and you were falling under the radar. Do you find me scummy for going after you?
Why wouldn't you choose to go after someone who's been a little less contentful (like Clidd/Morning Tweet, for example.)
Also when you talk about wanting to focus Jake or S_S, what do you (and other people) generally make of the possibility that Cakez was trying to pocket me? Unwarranted paranoia from Team Team Team Team Team or genuine ground for that to be a possibility? I'm generally reading you as less scummy now but the way you haven't really engaged with that angle when I've spoken about it (you bad cop Cakez good cop scum buddy routine) is making me wonder if you're intentionally avoiding it.
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@Spring Breeze. Assuming Nora is usually like this in their other games Infinity seems a bit too confident on that read imo considering those things. I want you to ask Infinity why they feel confident and to give a better explanation.In post 1622, Spring Breeze wrote:it's true i don't think i've been super on ball with the game so i combed back through and i think these takes are a lot truer to my heart. list isn't ordered.
- cheetory is a townread, even taking away the emotional reason which i don't think i should focus on anymore. he's generally invested, and i especially like how he said he was going to go v/la but couldn't help but come back to comment on things about the game.
- noraa i think is town. she's actually playing very similar to a game i hard scumread her in and she was town. this is also one of the reads infinity feels really good about so i am locking in
- spf; my teammate infinity says he mindmelds with her a lot, and i agree she's had good takes, but i don't think she's towntold enough for a townread. this maria post (1209) still pings me; i still think is too logic leapy, and she expresses a townread on mariar for it which i think is unwarranted. i don't *think* i'm misunderstanding the point, or at least am too far off
- pooky is my randsoultown. we played a game just before and he was a lot like this, and i'd think scum!pooky would be trying to control the gamestate/do something meaningful. he does know this, but i still feel he's town, i suppose. he just doesn't seem to care.
- morning tweet, i think is town for the confidence with the noraa read. i've played with scum!morning briefly and don't think she likes to make waves.
- jake is lhf, but should absolutely not be townread by any stretch of the imagination
- s_s, i am nullscumleaning for popping in at apparently the right moments to make jokes, but doesn't offer anything.
- sircakez has in general been pretty unafraid to give his opinions, and tonally reads as blunt town. maybe it's a soulread, i just think he's town
- zaiden; i liked his attempts to scumhunt with the conversations with his team members. i looked back and think i am probably putting too much stock into that emotional read so i am flipping here again. tonally town because i find him funny, but bias aside, he's probably a light townlean/null.
- gypx, i think is town. he's low effort solving, but still solving
- maria, on reflection, i can see being similar to pooky so i'm not that suspicious of her being put to the side as town for a lot of players. personally, i have no idea and i don't think my opinion matters on this
- pink ball, i'm pretty self conscious that i'm an attractive push for scum, but i don't think i can in good faith call that a scum push. otherwise content is a lot of asking questions and short comments which is pretty null.
- jingle, i still don't like his original noraa push. the points are nitpicky and generally reachy to come to the conclusion that noraa is scum. i do like (agree) with his reasoning behind the PR point noraa brought up though. 1477 i feel is still weak suppliment for a "very confident scumread" on noraa. the first question cheetory asked about noraa was a "this is more likely read," and the second one was just an inconsistency. i don't think he answered my question about the BoP.
- murdersunny; i have seen murdercat in other games though and he generally has a lot to say. the fact he's popped in a few times and said he's had nothing to say/nothing is happening feels strange because i almost feel like he wouldn't be able to contain his opinions as town if he's town. the change in playstyle is leantown, but it also lets him get away with not offering opinions. i'm fully open to looking at his case though
my team hasn't been around for this game, although infinity did say he was confident in noraa town, and he mindmelds with spf a while ago, and ydrasse said noraa was prob!town, which was also while ago
I will ignore that mindmeld segment on SPF because I don't deal with that stuff very well. Yes, I do think that the townread from SPF onto MariaR seems like a leap in logic. However mafia is a game that requires those sorts of leaps in logic and we all take leaps in logics for our reads/thoughts and the leap seems to be made to try and engage with many other players in good faith. Do you have anything to say about anything else SPF has done so far and why it wouldn't give you town vibes?
On Pooky, do other people think scum!Pooky is more likely to sit back or more likely to control the game? I haven't sensed vibes from Pooky trying to control discourse, but I reckon there are other low key ways of controlling the game (really influencing 1-3 individuals and I get the feeling if Pooky was influencing anyone it would be Spring Breeze here) and forming your own bloc. I want more people to talk about Pooky like Spring Breeze does here because I'm not getting a good grasp of Pooky/Spring Breeze here and there's less discussion around them compared to Nora.
Morning - seems like an easy town/null read to sheep for people. Jake also an easy null/scum read for people.
If you actually nullscum S_S why not try to advocate a case on him or push him like Cheetory6 is doing?
In what way is Gypyx solving? I'm getting less solving vibes from Gypyx and more framing vibes. Could you go a bit deeper on your thoughts about Gypyx and why they seem good when it feels like the total opposite atm?
Hahahaha. MariaR the deadpan cynic being similar to that wholesome bundle of floof known as Pooky the Magical Bear. I couldn't think of a bigger contrast. But apparently it's a 'soulread'. Can't see the logic in this one but okay. MariaR hasn't been that active and I'm waiting for them to engage with me to get a better grasp of them.
For Pink Ball's proposal, I also don't think you are as attractive to push for scum compared to the other wagons available, but maybe that's just me confbiasing with how my own wagon played out. From what I can see Pink Ball applied pressure, didn't get the response they were looking for so is applying even more pressure, which makes sense to me. Why do you perceive yourself as an attractive wagon compared to other players in this game?
Interesting how you weren't nitpicky with posts about other players (apart from SPF) and didn't quote anyone else but then specifically nitpicky about quoting Jingle using a specific post here. Potentially premeditated SvS interaction where they discussed framing a specific post a particular way? Could you expand more on your Jingle read beyond that one specific post?
Overall I'm not convinced by this reads list. It doesn't go deep enough for the amount of content and interactions we've had across 60+ pages. However I do think this game has been overwhelming. And there could be deeper thoughts you didn't immediately express so that your list didn't get too bloated. So try to get back to me on the points I've raised if you can.- Zaiden
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Nora, why do you expect Gypyx to be able to accurately locktown you here but hardly trust in anyone else? Is this a case of Gypyx having a great historical record of correctly reading you? Is Gypypx just differently built from the rest of us? If that was a joke that I didn't get ignore me.In post 1649, Noraa wrote:Ok gypyx if you were in tenet and read any of posts, you should be locktowning me here and I don't expect anything less than that.- Zaiden
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In post 1692, Cheetory6 wrote:
Soulread is likeIn post 1689, Zaiden wrote:Also I want to clear this up once and for all. Could someone write me an Explain Like I'm 5 about soulread/mindmeld or is this a meme that's completely whooshed over my head?
"I can feel this person's alignment deep within my soul"
and
mindmeld is like..
"me and this person we have combined our brains into an all powerful conglomerate and all of our opinions on the gamestate are aligned as a result of this"- Zaiden
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If Infinity is your 'soul mason' then what's your issue with Spring Breeze reading you as town? Is it more that you expect Infinity to townread you, but for Spring Breeze to be reluctant to agree on that opinion?In post 1691, Noraa wrote:
AFTER YELLOWSTONE WE ARE BONDED MY SOUL ENERGY FOREVER AND EVERIn post 1690, Noraa wrote:
INFINITY IS FOREVER MY SOUL MASONIn post 1688, Zaiden wrote:Assuming Nora is usually like this in their other games Infinity seems a bit too confident on that read imo considering those things. I want you to ask Infinity why they feel confident and to give a better explanation.- Zaiden
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You might be onto something here, S_S.In post 1655, Something_Smart wrote:
Does mind meld = towny and logic leap = scummy? I haven't really found either of those to be the case in my experience.In post 1622, Spring Breeze wrote:spf; my teammate infinity says he mindmelds with her a lot, and i agree she's had good takes, but i don't think she's towntold enough for a townread. this maria post (1209) still pings me; i still think is too logic leapy, and she expresses a townread on mariar for it which i think is unwarranted. i don't *think* i'm misunderstanding the point, or at least am too far off
With mind meld, soul reads and logic leap I'm starting to think we're all in some sports anime where when you go on to face against better teams or players, the normal sports shit you'd expect aren't there and it becomes a completely different game with superpowers, mind-reading and power of friendship or some shit.- Zaiden
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My bad, I genuinely missed PrivateI's post. Apologies PrivateI. It was between my final post at the end of the day before going to sleep and the back and forth between Jake and Gypyx so it got lost in there somewhere for me. And it didn't look big either because of the expand spoiler thing. I'll have a look in a bit.In post 1712, midwaybear wrote:So did everybody just ignore PrivateI?- Zaiden
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I just realised Cheetory's profile pic is Claire from Baccano. Unless I got that wrong. Should be the same artist. The familiarity had been bugging me for a while.
Noticed Morning Tweet posted this banger. Love Kiznaiver's OP theme. I thought Kiznaiver had some really good ideas going on behind it, and the classic Trigger animation/energy to go with it. But I wasn't entirely convinced by the execution in the end. Think Trigger should stick with their high octane action flicks instead of delving into Mari Okada style love dodecahedron stories.In post 1347, Morning Tweet wrote:
Re: PrivateI
Think PrivateI's analysis is definitely way beyond surface level. Goes deep and they've really given clear thoughts to the game. You've also commented on your analysis into Zaiden vs Cheetory and Pink Ball vs Spring Breeze interactions, which I think have been the high profile ones in this game so far. And you're offering unique perspectives that don't just come down to following a consensus. Your thought progressions are mostly clear, though there are some leaps in logic where I believe you attempted to infer things to try and close some gaps? Some of them I follow, some I don't. At least none of those leaps compare to Jake allegedly town-leaning Nora in 294 for saying 'PEACHES ARE SUPERIOR' as PrivateI quite correctly points out as being confusing. For now I'm upgrading from null to town-lean because even on the points I don't entirely agree with, I can see where they're trying to come from.
From my perspective Nora defending me when I was getting wagon'd and being emotionally re-assuring felt quite genuine. Not that it's alignment indicative per se. But I don't think it was 'fake'. Or maybe I want to pretend it's real because I'd honestly be pretty heartbroken if it was all a ruse. Nora seemed nice enough. I thought I'd weigh in with some insight on those sets of interactions because it directly involved me.
Some questions.
Why are third votes on a wagon bad? I was under the impression you eventually want to third vote to generate pressure on someone and get people talking. If third votes are an inevitable progression from RVS why are they frowned upon? (I guess this can also be more of a general question)
Is random chaotic bad? From my experience with people who behave chaotic/random in real life, it's more like you can't be sure of your guess. Sometimes they could be town? Sometimes they could be scum. Although I believe people here have played games with Nora and would be better informed on reading them. But I don't think it means they're certified scum. Although I'll feel really stupid if they've actually run me in circles. (I guess this is also more of a general question)
What about Spring Breeze qualifies as a townlean when the general consensus seems to be that they're not pulling their weight in this game? You even said yourself 191 reads bad, then you agree with their Cakez read. But surely that balances out to a null? What do you make of SpringBreeze's recent set of reads?
Also if you agree with Spring Breeze's argument in the 191 post, any idea what you felt the ping could have been? Or is that something you don't know and are speculating this is how scum!Cakez operates? For now I will be speculating that it's because you said you scumlean PinkBall. So do you rationalise PinkBall's push onto Spring Breeze as scum trying to pressure an wagon onto your townlean? Also, do you think they have some legitimate points about Spring Breeze's contributions so far in this game? From my perspective, I do think the push was quite non-committal but I thought Pink Ball raised some good points and decided to follow it up. Barring exceptional developments, I plan on voting Spring Breeze if they don't get back to me sometime soon.- Zaiden
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Zaiden Goon
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Zaiden Goon
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- Posts: 182
- Joined: February 13, 2017
My thoughts on the Cakez/S_S set of interactions:
@Cakez, you've answered a few of the questions I'd had. However, I'm not convinced by the 'meta shift' argument because I would have assumed it's in town's best interest to remain consistent with their town meta, especially in something like a team mafia game where more is on the line. Or are you trying to say that your development as a player is completely separate from meta altogether? Although I'm in agreement of Gypyx being a scumread I'm not following your progression for why Gypyx is scum. Could you elaborate on the overlaps between TENET (which I didn't play in) and this game? To the person who said this game is different from TENET - how different and would it disqualify any comparison to this game?
Had a google of IIoa. Didn't S_S analyse Cakez's scum meta to try and prove a point as opposed to purely spewing information? I think it's disingenuous to pretend there's a lack of analysis from S_S. It's just that S_S has chosen to focus on one person. Nora, does that mean Pink Ball has IIoa'd against Spring Breeze from your perspective too for focusing hard on bringing a case against a single person?In post 1938, Noraa wrote:S_S' s only scummy thing this game is that they are full of IIoa.
They aren't talking that much game related/useful/helpful things.
A lot of what they say is entirely useless and like sideline-y.
If that's the scum case, its weak but I do buy it.
With S_S, I also don't think scum would outright admit 'This is how I would act as scum'. And I don't think scum would readily admit to that or rail so hard against Cakez in such a public way. I'm townleaning S_S here.In post 1952, SirCakez wrote:
Ok so this is basically admitting you are doing what you'd do as scum.In post 1940, Something_Smart wrote:
Probably something similar, maybe a little less intense. But I would be genuinely doing it to understand, and not to change his mind.In post 1937, midwaybear wrote:Well what would you do as scum then?- Zaiden
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Zaiden Goon
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- Joined: February 13, 2017
Just saw Pink Ball's super post. Seems good to me. I knew I wasn't going crazy over how weird/unproductive the Soul Mason memes and flirting was. Followed by nothing of substance. And apparently my third vote was opportunistic. Like really? Plus Spring Breeze didn't give any sort of response to my recent post to them outside of 'get back tomorrow' - which I think shows a real lack of urgency I would personally have expected from town.
The only point I'd differ on is that I wouldn't give Pooky the benefit of the doubt PinkBall has. If they've played together so much and Pooky knows them extremely well and is meant to have a 100% soulread on Spring Breeze or whatever, surely that means Pooky wouldn't be missing out on these details or off vibes?
Vote: Spring Breeze - Zaiden
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