Mini 2206 - Deja Vu: Perpetual MELO IV - END!

[Venus Fly Trap]

hello all, excited to play with all of you!

VOTE: disaster cartel you know why

that's a good point kismet, if scum can get a hammer with no consequences for that member of the team they'll def try to take advantage of that

~ skitter

[Venus Fly Trap]

Hello!

VOTE: Venus Fly Trap

The terrifying hydra...

cuz of the name or cuz me and lilith are in it

Vote: Not_Mafia

Seems like a foregone conclusion anyways.

this is weird to me, like yes we might all decide that he's the best compromise wagon today or some day or whatever, but in general i feel like we can do better, esp. on day1, esp since he just abt never has any useful interactions to sort other people with.
if we just do this early on and he's town and we flip him we just let scum jettison their weakest player, and if he's scum and we flip him we just lose our strongest player
(and honestly in most universes depending on who the scumteam is that's like ... my slot or yours)
so like

pedit notsci you can read nm?

~ skitter

[Venus Fly Trap]

i mean true, but nacho's post had this 'ugh might as well just do it and get it over with' vibe which i think would just exacerbate/compound that problem, esp. given we're talking abt not mafia

actually i'm gonna vote VOTE: nacho

kismet have i played with u before?

~ skitter

[Venus Fly Trap]

can i put in my guess as the ubiquitious hectic alt?
(which i suppose will be answered when the acct gets burned)

~ skitter

[Venus Fly Trap]

i did get that vibe, but i will readily admit that it's not inherently more likely scum-motivated as there are some reasons why town might approach it that way, but it's the first thing i saw that could potentially be worth a real vote and my vote on mena was more of a 'hi' type vote than anything else, so i switched

~ skitter

[Venus Fly Trap]

but it's the first thing i saw that could potentially be worth a real vote

i'm not trying to get to strength of conviction here, i'm more just asking "if this is a scum play, what is nacho actually trying to do w/ it" because at first glance it just seems like something you don't understand or agree with

trying to get an easy flip without too much discussion if possible to get to night faster
(again i'm not saying he is doing that per se but if he were scum i think that that's what his goal would be)

~ skitter

[Venus Fly Trap]

i dont' think that that's fl

also hello ydra!

~ skitter

[Venus Fly Trap]

i don't think that's fl

Ok well I have an early TR there regardless

agreed

policying NM is my idea of a good time

-Mena

no

~ skitter

[Venus Fly Trap]

@kismet that's fair. like i said i'm not inherently calling him scum for it (esp since he hasn't even been here since to provide more insight) so much as i was using it to get out of RVS (which worked!)
also i have another guess for u!

[Venus Fly Trap]

'ugh might as well just do it and get it over with

I'm not convinced of that interpretation at this time

I will say that i think this take on nacho's entrance is the correct one tbh

Wrt to salsa i think he's saying he's getting town glimmers from her so she isnt going to be the 'easy flip to get a point' if scum the same way he's viewing nm apparently, but i dont really agree with him that this is the best way to use today and/or to handle nm

[Venus Fly Trap]

I mean if something better comes up I'm all for it but as for right now we know that we're taking an L on Not_Mafia if town eventually (maybe not today, maybe not tomorrow, but eventually) - if he's mafia then we have one shot and one shot only to kill him and that's right this second.

If he flips town it sucks, but if we flip any town day 1 it sucks same as usual so I don't necessarily understand the point you're making here.

And if I'm the strongest town player then we're already screwed sooo...

- why are yoh assuming nm is gonna get flipped at all? Like you're preassuming we're for sure gonna flip him when i'm not sure that's the case
- unless he's like exactly scum and the whole scumteam decides to go and defend him, flipping nm is usually kinda a waste from an infoflip perspective cuz he usually has like no interactions
- kinda feels like you're willing to basically lose an easy point to maybe get an easy point but i feel like by actualky utilizing the day we can make a much stronger flip and actually have some more useful info going into the night instead 'meh might as well flip nm anyways and let scum do whatever'
- like you're kinda basically taking a cointoss that might have a good outcome and might not instead of actually trying to get something good and meaningful accomplished with the day
- arent u supposed to be, like, good at this?

Pedit yeah i dont know *why* he thinks that townie from salsa tho
Also salsa that was abt u

[Venus Fly Trap]

hard tunnels get potentially interesting in this kind of setup because scum are inclined to do them, win that day, and just peace out of the game the next day after the flip makes them look horrible

i think we should be insisting that people take a fairly breadth-first approach to the game.

I mean that's kinda what i was getting at wrt potential scum motivation here

~ i really should be signing, everything has been me thus far
Skitter

[Venus Fly Trap]

Actually i'm not sure, i had a guess but as i see u write you sound very familiar but not like the person i was thinking of but i'm not sure who

~skitter

[Venus Fly Trap]

no

VOTE: NM

-Mena

Bad vote >:(

~ skitter

[Venus Fly Trap]

hi hello hi!!! looks like I'm late to the party

- lilith

[Venus Fly Trap]

Hello!

VOTE: Venus Fly Trap

The terrifying hydra...

VOTE: venus fly trap
Cursed hydra

(◕‸ ◕✿) why cursed?!

[Venus Fly Trap]

policy elims are bad. policy elims on NM are bad. policy elims on NM in this setup are bad. we should just kill the person we think is most likely to be scum.

- lilith

[Venus Fly Trap]

tbh I'm kind of thinking scum!nacho is getting his buddy NM out of the way so that he can direct a nightkill onto a townie of his choice rather than only being able to kill a miselim-able townie during the day.

- lilith

[Venus Fly Trap]

hey vft

if you had to vote someone right now and that would decide the elim for today, who would you vote?

~leaf

nacho but i'm gonna hedge and say that we're on like p4 and like half the game hasn't posted yet and i'm not sure i actually want to flip him today yet ...

~ skitter

[Venus Fly Trap]

I actually think notsci has a halfway decent scumgame. At leasy the last one i played with him i was townreading him for a fair amt of it

Kismet i have two more guesses for you

Also nacho's last post was, uh, not very good

I agree with the infinity townreads too btw

Pedit interesting
~ skit

[Venus Fly Trap]

i think it's skitter's turn to try next

I have it down to like 3 names (maybe?) You sound super familiar bur i'm not sure i can place it. You want a guess?

Also i like notsci so far!

~ skitter

[Venus Fly Trap]

Bad vote >:(

Also y

-both Mena

Y yes

[Venus Fly Trap]

We dont need to flip him if he's scum to win tho

The situation isnt really the same

~ skitter

[Venus Fly Trap]

policy elims are bad. policy elims on NM are bad. policy elims on NM in this setup are bad. we should just kill the person we think is most likely to be scum.

- lilith

Have u literally forgotten JK9++ already? The game we nearly lost (should’ve lost) bc of not policy limming NM despite me saying repeatedly that we should do for like 3 days?

-Mena

??? the.. the game I was scum in?

- lilith

[Venus Fly Trap]

Mena why are you like prickly

Pedit no u werent in that one
~skitter

[Venus Fly Trap]

according to skitt/infinity I was not in that game so I don't get why you're upset with me in particular about it.

also we have an avatar now.

- lilith

[Venus Fly Trap]

Mena we've talked abt this like 6 billion times already but i really kinda fundementally disagree with u abt ur approach to not mafia

But, i do think the frustration you're exhibiting on this page given the context is townie for you

~ skitter

Lilith is kindly getting as an avi

Pedit ya that game

[Venus Fly Trap]

How do u read not mafia even

~ skitter

[Venus Fly Trap]

Mena was hydra'ing with ydra the thing she messaged you about postgame of divide and conquer

?
Also: is it bad that i'm kinda townreading everyone who posted on the prior page?

Honestly now that i think abt it if i get a decent enuf townpool i would maybe be ok flipping nm
~ skitter

[Venus Fly Trap]

Ffery u are winning the pagetop sweepstakes i believe, this is very impressive

~ skitter

[Venus Fly Trap]

I'm reading him more for being frustrated abt it than the his actual stance if that makes sense

~ skit

Mine

I'm not *super* confident but i like him so far
Idk if u should be
Its probably like infinity > kismet > mena > notci if i had to rank it

Ok i gotta sleep but i shall commence on the morrow

~ skitter

[Venus Fly Trap]

I'm reading him more for being frustrated abt it than the his actual stance if that makes sense

It does, and I get that's a personal experience read for you and am endeavoring to take it into account

Ya he was pissed at me in that jk++ cuz we were hydra'd and i wouldnt let hjm flip nm and nm was actually scum and he's getting annoyed at me again and idk why he would if he were scum here

Pedit his approach, his questioning, his thoughts are all ++town, y dont u townread him

Ok reallh bouncing, night!

~ skit

[Venus Fly Trap]

I don’t get what the value in spending an elim on a scum!NM is and I’m struggling to understand why anyone thinks this is the best play to make.

- we spend an elim on scum!NM -> scum get to direct a NK to a strong town voice
- we don’t spend an elim on scum!NM -> if nacho is correct and scumteam sacrifices NM first, he still dies. but town got to direct the other person who dies in the first day/night cycle. How is that ever worse than option 1? town-directed elim >>>>>>> scum-directed NK. even if it’s a miselim, we got way more info out of it and also presumably are not using our D1 elim to get rid of a strong town voice.

like I said, reeeeeeally struggling to see why spending an elim on NM is more valuable than spending an elim on someone who we actually scumread.

nacho trajectory on us: “lilith had good reaction to my push” —> we’re in his scumpool. ???? progression

I already made my stance on N_M clear

actually I went through your ISO and couldn’t find any “clear stance” about NM whatsoever. I’m surprised you haven’t mentioned that NM is usually town when he’s being wagoned, like in panic room. That makes me think you’re trying not to lean too hard one way or the other on an NM wagon in case it does actually go through.

re: opinion on Nacho, like I said I don’t understand how someone comes to the conclusion that NM is the most valuable elim we can make D1. I don’t buy that this is a genuine town thought process from nacho. I think it’s more likely that nacho is trying to sacrifice a buddy to an elim so that he gets to direct an NK than scum!nacho trying to miselim the LHF town!NM so that he can sacrifice someone on his team who is presumably more valuable to his team than NM is to town. why ever go after such LHF like that when you have to sacrifice a partner for it? ergo, scumbuddies.

- lilith

[Venus Fly Trap]

The infinity / leafeon interaction on like page 6 also felt really floppy

this is likely the extent of my contribution to the thread for the day.

@salsa hope you feel better

- lilith

[Venus Fly Trap]

@cakes

I already made my stance on N_M clear

actually I went through your ISO and couldn’t find any “clear stance” about NM whatsoever. I’m surprised you haven’t mentioned that NM is usually town when he’s being wagoned, like in panic room. That makes me think you’re trying not to lean too hard one way or the other on an NM wagon in case it does actually go through.

re: opinion on Nacho, like I said I don’t understand how someone comes to the conclusion that NM is the most valuable elim we can make D1. I don’t buy that this is a genuine town thought process from nacho. I think it’s more likely that nacho is trying to sacrifice a buddy to an elim so that he gets to direct an NK than scum!nacho trying to miselim the LHF town!NM so that he can sacrifice someone on his team who is presumably more valuable to his team than NM is to town. why ever go after such LHF like that when you have to sacrifice a partner for it? ergo, scumbuddies.

- lilith

you're literally ignoring me, so you can stop pretending that you're trying to read me whatsoever. "waiting on Lilith to give town pings" okay well how exactly are you doing that if you're not even reading my posts, and in particular the parts of those posts that are addressed to you?

- lilith

[Venus Fly Trap]

if there's one thing i don't like about cakez so far is progression on VFT

you come in a slot you're supposedly very wary of ("you always snow me", etc.)
but like outside of 241 (are you calling lilith's 101 scummy there? can't tell) you've got virtually no progression or focus on the slot and then they're just in your "don't like" pool because ????

i get being paranoid of strong scum but that's not the vibe i'm getting here.

yeah I don't think he's actually trying to sort our slot.

- lilith

[Venus Fly Trap]

I'm also done talking about the NM play. It's patently obvious to me that I won't be convincing a majority to go along with it, and I don't think that me getting more and more pissed as I attempt to explain myself on the same points over the next 20 pages is the best thing for thread health.

ok cool

can you explain how you got from "liking my reaction" to us being in your scumpool?

- lilith

[Venus Fly Trap]

bc I have no baseline or any idea of who it is and that inherently makes me slightly +sus unless it’s hectic (which it apparently isn’t)

i mean are you saying you're just like vaguely sus because he's an alt and you don't know who he is or ...

~

Also i like notsci so far!


why?

tbf my sample size is not, like, super big but you're more free-flowing / stream-of-conscious-y than you were in that half scumgame you played with me, and it's reminiscent of tenet + the normal.
you were like, kinda, able to produce shallow thoughts/questioning on the fly in jk++ but there's a depth to nuance here that wasnt' present there
maybe that was a product of not having as much time to play and in a scumgame where you were less busy irl you would be able to do so but like off of the experience that i've had thus far i'm liking what you're saying

~

My experience is that Not Mafia tends to lurk a lot, doesn't tend to scumhunt nor contribute in a significant way to the point where he basically doesn't play the game. In a game like this with an absolutely massive scumteam I'm pretty confident that someone like him is going to end up as lynchbait. Do you disagree? What are your previous experiences with him?

I don't know where you're getting the impression that I'm trying to rush the day. Unless someone does something significant to change my mind, Not Mafia is my death candidate. I think that it's extremely unlikely town!Not-Mafia survives the game and I think it's extremely likely scum!Not_Mafia gets sacrificed, hence he's a priority to figure out. He can have all the time in the world for someone else to fuck up or for him to step it up in any way whatsoever, but see my experience above. I don't think it's going to happen.

Salsa accused Kismet of lying about not playing in a Perpetual MyLo setup before because Kismet was playing on an alt. That's a convoluted line of thought that I don't think that she comes up with if scum there - it tends to be quite hard for baddies to fake paranoia when they have all of the answers in front of them, and it would be extraordinarily impressive if she came up with the idea to fake paranoia there.

if he's town, he's probably going to be flipbait, sure
but that also means that 'in a game with an absolutely massive scumteam' and he's town there's goign to be a lot of scum trying to drive us towards him, no? like why are you not just scum trying to get that easy flip ...
also in this setup it's not a sure thing that he needs to get flipped anyways as either alignmenet so i'm not sure why you're presenting this as inevitable. also i don't think he always gets misflipped as town

also i don't believe i ever said you were trying to rush the day
more like you were trying to present this as 'ugh might as well just do this now'

i kinda like the salsa reasoning tho

Do you really think that I'm angling to sacrifice myself in exchange for Not_Mafia's life...? Really?

eh not so much that you were gonna escape per se so much as the hard-tunneling part

[Venus Fly Trap]

oh skitter whoops ^ forgot to sign

[Venus Fly Trap]

i think at least where you're losing me is that you seem to be saying that scum getting the opportunity to safehouse (i'm going to use this term to refer to a scum reverse nk) n_m is like a huge value play for them, to the point that we need to scorched earth the shit out of that slot to ensure that they don't have the opportunity to do this, even if he is town.

ya this ^

[Venus Fly Trap]

If I was scum I’d leave up my buddy who can plausibly quick hammer from either alignment for the record

lol good point honestly

~ skitter

[Venus Fly Trap]

and skitter has been having a tough run lately

>.>

Done reading. Disaster Cartel is AWFUL and I do not want to move my vote. Nacho is also just ??????? leaning towards scum. All of the hydras are not good actually.

Not crazy about notsci, L+G, or Venus Fly Trap. I can have lots of scumreads in this game

don't most of these people not like nacho?

I don't like your approach to this game. It feels too passive.

also, uh, passive is not a word i use to describe notscience here, this kinda feels like buzzword-y handwave-y sort of shade

~

only that’s not what happened? I wanted to know why skitt was TRing you bc you’re evidently experienced but I have no idea what your scumgame is like from a range of like FL to kerset

he's just like really townie ... do you really not see it?

~ skitter

[Venus Fly Trap]

sorry are you talking abt me or notsci there, i'm a little confused how you worded that

(also i forgot to say but i'm trying super hard to strictly post outside of workig hours so i'm mainly a nighttime phenomenon now)

my current best guess is, like, unwnd
(possibly cabd but i don't think he types the way you do)

~ skitter

[Venus Fly Trap]

yeah ok that makes more sense
(also all my guesses for who you are i don't think would describe me as 'beastmode as scum')

~ skitter

[Venus Fly Trap]

this post just doesn't make any sense as town. why is he so opposed to this conversation? it's not like the thread was getting blown up
the "put my face through desk" comment seems like a huge exaggeration

how much of your jk++ did you, like, read?
iirc a fair amt, no? like i remember you talking in the dead pt abt how likely it was that scum would carry out a win
in the context of how that game played out and how much mena wanted to flip nm i think his frustration makes sense ...

not really liking sircakez thus far

pedit yeah i don't actually think it's cabd. i think like unwnd > prism > maybe peta but he's on hiatus but the overlap of like tent + normal isn't that big i don't think
also legends you were scum in? i guess that context makes a bit more sense but you're not, like, being passive tho
pedit2 oh nm. idk i still don't like it. either way i don't think he's being much townie here tho

~ skitter

[Venus Fly Trap]

(1) Did u read any of JK9++ while modding it? Or like, my hydra pt with skitts?

oh yeah see ^
cakez i feel like you're kinda igoring relevant context to have this read on mena

~ skitter

[Venus Fly Trap]

V/LA till 16th April due to health issue.

I'd be voting for this slot if it wasn't for this post ngl.

I find everything they are doing is just them existing and vibing rather than actually playing the game.

Which just reads like scum going through the motions waiting for something easy to grab onto.
I can elaborate in 4 days I guess.

uh no.
a) she's kinda new
b) i was in a newbie with her kinda recently and this is kinda just how she plays. she's p guileless and just kinda says exactly what she's thinking and i feel like there's evidence of her trying to understand what's going on and how people are trying to read other people. i wouldn't really describe her as 'just them existing and vibing rather than actually playing the game'

~ skitter

pedit who are you >.>
pedit2 i don't think that sounds like bell? but i don't know bell as well what do i know lol

[Venus Fly Trap]

As a side note I’m a bit confused why those pro-notmaf haven’t brought up that them killing him d1 (assuming he’s scum) would be super low info. It’s always about “CANT LET HIM ESCAPE”

Like I don’t get why the focus is on removing “weak links” rather than limiting how much information actually goes out?

i mean i brought this up way back when but tbh at this point by virtue of the fact that this has become such a divisive issue there would be information on his flip now so :shrug:

~ skitter

[Venus Fly Trap]

Vote: SirCakez

I don't believe his scumread on his disaster and I don't believe his scumread on me. I'll get into it later when I have more time.

uh so these nacho and sircakez interactions are certainly A Thing

~ skitter

[Venus Fly Trap]

i feel like i might outsource reading the bulge to not science

~ skitter

[Venus Fly Trap]

ffery you are very good at getting pagetops, i am super impressed

[Venus Fly Trap]

that's fair
like idk what to do with him thus far but from how you're interacting with him it seems like he's a high-priority sort for you + that you sort of expect that you *will* be able to sort him
and i townread you
so like altogether maybe just waiting a bit and having someone else do the legwork might be easier lol

also ya i for nacho/cakez their mutual voting + interactions are kinda icky

~ skitter

[Venus Fly Trap]

this promotes the unwnd theory!
i will take a look!

~ skitter

>.>

[Venus Fly Trap]

huh she actually has a wider range than i would have guessed, with decent tone + activity
but she's kinda trending towards short declaritive statements/questions and not as much like 'in the moment trying to sort out what she's thinking' if that makes sense. she's almost more definitive/assertive in this scumgame than in the towngame i saw her in.
i was kinda liking her before and still think beeboy's take is kinda bad and like the opposite from how she ought to be read but i'm not as confident as i was before

~ skitter

[Venus Fly Trap]

Skimming, work, ill actually be around later etc etc etx

But bork man i totally forgot abt you but you're really cool and i'm happy we get to play again and you're like just town here lol, id u need me to explain later i can but the gist of it is u feel super different to that normal in the same way that enabled me to identify town-you in tenet + i think you're out of the scumrange i've seen + i dont think scum-you would be nearly this proactice or nuanced

Also what i saw of nacho's response to cakez felt bad. Nacho your tone is like just super super super off and that whole convo with cakez felt really weird on both ends, but you especially felt stilted/unnatural. There's something fucky going on in that pair. I'd bet good money on at least one scum, if not both. If i had to pick just one i'd say nacho tho cuz sircakez did have a few ok posts last night

Ok later!
~ skitter

Also mena y r u playing around me ?
Also happy bday infinity!

[Venus Fly Trap]

You two are bad tonereaders.

Wrt Infinity am not surprised because he just seems to be stuck in tunnel mode.

Wrt skitter I'm still waiting for your scumread to evolve past its premise.

well, i mean, maybe don't have bad tone? i'm not really sure the problem is with me when two different people said the same thing now

also my read *has* evolved (namely, i think your interactions with cakez are awful), thank you

this whole post is like trying to handwave away criticism while you yourself are acknowledging a few posts up that this isn't the way you typically play as town so like

~

You don't get to play with nice Nacho after you drove me to wanting to gouge my eyeballs out with a McFlurry spoon in Popcorn Mafia. I will not be putting myself through that hell again, and if you want to play the same game that you played with us last time, I won't be only person having a bad time.

this is kinda what i mean by 'icky' tone. tbf i wasn't in that game and don't know what beef you two have but this only makes sense as town to me if you have, like, some sort of major grudge against him to the point where you're still mad however many months later and his every post you just loathe and insta-scumread

which idk tbf i don't really know you either so for all i know this isn't abnormal but like from what i hear i'm having a hard time seeing you approach him that way as town

like here at least i dont' think he's done anything to deserve this level of animus so this whole post has this like prickly/aggressive edge which doesn't really match what's actually happened in this game, it looks like you're picking a fight almost and idk why.

~

But instead, when I pushed for his death, there was Mena and no one else.

Which seems to increase chances of there being scum in {me, Not_Mafia}, no?

I'm not scum trying to get the easy flip because I tried to policy lynch him from page one. I've been around long enough to realize that policy lynching doesn't typically work.

right ... and i'm arguing that you're scum here
wrt the second line i'm not sure if you're trying to say 'i didn't try to get a policy flip on him (and that's something scum would do) so i'm not scum' or 'scum don't try to get policy flips and i did so i'm not scum'
but for the former it did read like you were trying to get a policy flip on him. with a whole lotta mechanical reasonign, sure, but that's fundmentally what it boiled down to
and for the latter scum try that all the time

[Venus Fly Trap]

You and Skitter both keep pretending like all I am interested in today is policying Not Mafia or bust.

also you've moved beyond thta, sure, when that didn't really work out, but you were plugging it p hard at the beginning, and doubled down when people initially objected so

~ skitter, prior one was me too

[Venus Fly Trap]

Also mena y r u playing around me ?

Do you mean why am I not trying to read you or something else?

-Mena

feels like you're neither trying to sort me nor engage with me and i feel like u should be

~ skitter

[Venus Fly Trap]

Subject: Mini Normal 2200 | Game Over

Alisae is mad

And this is probably town indicative for er but eh

Pretty sure e can be mad as scum too, just maybe less likely

I can compromise on PP but not my fav choice, like,

PP would always play like this regardless of align and he feels like being lhf-ed ever since suji

, but in retrospect i guess the original wagon in suji (luca day norw pooky) wasn't so bad either

SS is funny bc literally the only vote he ever received is his own

ok tbf this is the closest example i can find in my recnet games - fark's argumnt was basically that penguin was lowhanging fruit who wasn't playing (and wouldn't be playing as either alignment) and that's what he kept using to push penguin. he didn't literally call it a policy-lim but his reasoning basically boiled down to him being unreadable and lhf so why not

fark was scum and penguin was town (who got flipped that day)
this was my most recent completed towngame i think, from like a few weeks ago

and i dont' see many other examples recently so fair enuf, you have a point in that it's not super common, but even so that doesn't make the push good
and i'm kinda more interested in the tone/cakez stuff now

~ skitter

[Venus Fly Trap]

mine!

[Venus Fly Trap]

Did anyone besides nacho think I was tunneling him?

nope

~
also: i kinda like misty but beeboy not posting is somewhat concerning since iirc he hates posting as scum. he can get, like, another irl day or so to post at which point i will start officially scumreading him for it

~ skitter

[Venus Fly Trap]

ya fair enough, i seem to remember them being more common but i can't actually find any examples so nm

~skitter

[Venus Fly Trap]

I think due to the nature of this setup read lists are bad for town.
Mainly because scum want to eliminate themselves and you'd basically be directing them who to get rid of.


Mind games ect ect.
Town motivation ect ect.
Are both valid arguments against this though as I've had this discussion a few times, I haven't spoke to Mist about this at all.

~Glaceon

oh wait you are posting
but kinda ineffectually ...
do you have like a readslist you can sure? don't feel like i have a good sense for what you're thinking this game and i feel like i probably should

~ skitter

[Venus Fly Trap]

>.>
wait i actually just read it and shouldn't have just looked at the sig before posting
ok i very much disagree with this philosophy because i have no idea what you're thinking this game and while you *might* have a point that readslists are bad (i don't raelly agree with that but whatever) if i can't figure out what your reads are at all we have a problem, esp. since i know that town!you tends to have good reads (and they'd be useful to have) and scum!you doesn't like to post

~ skitter

[Venus Fly Trap]

@beeboy I know you just said you don't like readslists but scum are gonna figure out who I SR anyway, and I think this is important

{bulge, DC, NM, mom, nacho, cakez}

@bork, skitt Who do you think is most likely scum outside this pool?

Leafeon and Glaceon (beeboy, Mistyx hydra)
Salsabil Faria
Kismet
Infinity 324
Venus Fly Trap (skitter30, lilith2013 hydra)
notscience

leaf's my weakest out of these, followed by salsa
but this group is, largely, the people i'm townreading (other than leaf) so there's a p big gap between leaf and salsa

i don't really have any thoughts on his read on you. it's just kinda there

~ sktiter

[Venus Fly Trap]

also i know ydra is gonna hate me for this but she's looking a lto more like the vs. game than, say, divide and conquer ...

[Venus Fly Trap]

i wish me and mena were posting at the same time so that i can sort him

~ skitter

[Venus Fly Trap]

also i know ydra is gonna hate me for this but she's looking a lto more like the vs. game than, say, divide and conquer ...

I mean ydra just isn't posting, sometimes she just doesn't post as town.

I thought the way beeboy applied his theory to this game felt quite believable.

i mean doesn't she at the very least fluffpost and post about anime or ice cream or whatever as town, even if there's no content?

and for beeboy idk it doesn't really resonate with me. like i can see him posting that as either alignment

sorry cakez <3
~ skitter

[Venus Fly Trap]

i mean doesn't she at the very least fluffpost and post about anime or ice cream or whatever as town, even if there's no content?

In two day penultimate mafia which was recently abandoned, her posting was similar to here (pop in once and a while and say nothing). I'm hoping she gets to the content part this time

fair enuf. i don't think i've ever seen that iteration of town-ydra

~ skitter

[Venus Fly Trap]

Mom/Braveheart is also #badslot btw

just cuz they haven't done anything or is there something more

@kismet: ya i'm definitely not at that point yet, if i do townread him and people are scumreading him for (what i think are) bad reasons you will most certainly be hearing from me, do not fear. with all due respect to infinity i'm probably better at reading mena than she is tho. need the realtime interaction tho

@bulge: that umbrella being 'people who are proposing a whole lot of ""Agenda""?

~ skitter

[Venus Fly Trap]

growing more confident on cakez, i hate how he's basically trying to just push past our scumread instead of like, talking against it

makes me think he just wants to get the miselim on our slot then leave the game tonight

wut
~ skitter

[Venus Fly Trap]

Infinity feels really town to me.
Unless they are very good at faking being confused and struggling to articulate reads :V

~Glaceon

she's not

~
mostly what i resigned into the hydra for is that i forgot to say earlier that i kinda dislike that the only thing nacho responded to in my post i made about/to him earlier was to discuss the prevelency of policy flips, and that he kinda ignored the rest of it

~ skitter

[Venus Fly Trap]

ydra this might be a weird thing to say but i feel lkike your posts are more ~constructed~ than usual
or like you're trying to effect the tone you usually have but it feels somewhat off

~
also i find it kinda interesting that just abt everyone is tr'ing the same ~3-4 slots, other than like nacho.
i'm not sure what to do with this yet but i think it's of note

~ skitter

[Venus Fly Trap]

oh!

Spoiler:

i felt bad about not being around earlygame when mena was honestly even though i know i shouldn't because it's just mafia, but i invited him to hydra with me and i feel like... i should play better / more "serious" than i normally when it comes to like, not shitposting because there's someone else in the slot with me who i'm responsible for so it means that i'm trying to put more thought into the things i say rather than just "idk vibes lol lol", and doing ti with stuff that's already past is awkward bc they're topics already gone and i'm like... i feel i need to say More than i normally would i guess? because these are things i'm revisiting and people have already spoken about. i wanna be useful basically but catchup makes it uniquely difficult and i kinda hate it

i hope this makes sense

- ydra

yeah i get what you're saying
maybe don't put so much pressure on yourself to like Catch Up all formally and everything
when you just post stream-of-conscious-y vibes and thoughts with like real content you're easiest to read, and i'd prefer that than you being all stressed abt catching up

I feel like y'all might be underestimating my scumgame but w/e I'm town here

i mean you literally made a whole thing about saying the exact opposite last week, remember?
lol

[Venus Fly Trap]

you actually sound more like yourself now tbh

~ skitter

[Venus Fly Trap]

I didn't really like mena's "look at me so frustrated about NM policy elim" attitude when he was yelling at me earlier, but I think ydrasse is slightly +town in the last few pages

I'm probably not going to have a chance to catch up until this weekend, I've asked skitter to hold down the fort for me while work is crazy. if there's anything specific that people want my opinion on, please @ me and I'll try to respond in a somewhat reasonable time frame.

- lilith

[Venus Fly Trap]

okay nvm I started reading and my brain can't stop

I still think infinity/leafeon interactions feel weirdly weak. infinity's line of questioning on "do you post like this as scum" etc doesn't seem like it's really meant to go anywhere meaningful and ends with her soft-townreading leafeon. I don't see how misty's responses were particularly towny.

- lilith

[Venus Fly Trap]

oh hi bulge

what did you think about beeboy posting 523 right after that?

- lilith

[Venus Fly Trap]

that whole exchange feels like a good example of the "pointless garbage" point i mentioned before. I have a hard time believing town in infinity's shoes would care at all about that line of questioning, and then to have that exchange flip her read from scum to town is wild to me

yeah I think I agree

sorry I didn't mean to spout pointless garbage ._. I was just feeling FOMO for the exciting conversation about NM and wanted to give my two cents but it was like a million pages too late

real talk though, the majority of my reads are formed based on how well I can see and understand the other person's view, preferably that person's read on me, because I can pick apart what does make sense (I guess this is @ nacho too for "why is this read such a sticking point" etc etc). I don't mean to come off as like, self-centered but it's way easier to parse people's reads on me and why they are reasonable or unreasonable as town progressions. if I'm having a hard time following and understanding Nacho's reasons for his initial push of NM, his read on our slot, the kind of "agenda" that he's presenting to people for why he acts in certain ways, then I think he's way more likely to be scum based on my own experiences.

[Venus Fly Trap]

I still think infinity/leafeon interactions feel weirdly weak. infinity's line of questioning on "do you post like this as scum" etc doesn't seem like it's really meant to go anywhere meaningful and ends with her soft-townreading leafeon. I don't see how misty's responses were particularly towny.

Basically I had this idea where mistyx would not force thoughts if she didn't have any as town where she would force them as scum. It doesnt look like that was correct, but I finished townreading her for 510 which I felt like she would've presented differently (perhaps not even quoting my post) if it was both wrong and fake as opposed to just wrong.

I tried to follow your train of thought, misty's train of thought in 510, her initial post in 500, and the post she quoted as "your original push on her" which was just you saying you felt motivationless and I do not understand how any of that is resulting in a townread on misty

- lilith

[Venus Fly Trap]

Ya he was pissed at me in that jk++ cuz we were hydra'd and i wouldnt let hjm flip nm and nm was actually scum and he's getting annoyed at me again and idk why he would if he were scum here

@bulge this was the context
~ skits

[Venus Fly Trap]

oh right I also disliked mena because he was insisting that bussing was not viable and scum would never bus. reminded me of panic room but in the opposite direction.

@kismet I have specific things I was looking for from ydrasse. based on the page I looked at she seemed to be slightly closer to what I expect from her as town than from her as scum, but it’s a very weak read because I don’t think I’ve actually played with her before. I also don’t know if it’s fakeable as scum if she’s in a situation like this.

- lilith

[Venus Fly Trap]

Ya that's what i was getting at when i spoke about nacho's tone earlier - the level of anomosity and like annoyance doesnt really match anything cakez did here

(Also gonna reiterate that he ignored me pointing this out)

~ skitter

Pedit @bork

[Venus Fly Trap]

Dont really get anything from the bulge really

[Venus Fly Trap]

Bulge hasn’t done anything yet, I’m surprised Cakez is townreading him to be honest.

I agree about his tone being over the top, and idk if you’ve already considered this skitter but my stance is it could be from town in the same venue that yours/a few others got annoyed between tenet and 2181 if that makes sense? It does take a bit to cool off.

I mean i did make note that this could be like a massive grudge thing carrying on from popcorn mafia, but wasnt it a few months ago already? And wouldnt it be, like, smarter to just not join games together vs carrying a grudge and snap-reacting to getting scumread by someone who you clearly have some beef with?
(Like i avoided you lot for a bit till i got over it etc)

Idk it feels very performative and unnatural to me

~ skitter

[Venus Fly Trap]

Maybe? I was the first to die so it was the longest for me

I do agree I’m just playing devils advocate. I still think scums game plan was to sac some people and powerbus but it’s really tricky when so many of the plist is good at standing out as town

Yeah i just looked, the last post is from 2/14, so two months now, which is a while

Ya. There really isnt super much room for scum to maneuver here tbh
Thinking abt it more i still think there's scum in nacho/sircakez, but i sont think its svs anymore, more tvs with nacho being the s

~ skitter

[Venus Fly Trap]

this whole post is like trying to handwave away criticism while you yourself are acknowledging a few posts up that this isn't the way you typically play as town so like

My anger at Cakez is something that is one off and unique - the focus on it is misguided because it is something that is one off and unique. Whenever people do something outside of their range as a player it's pretty hard to then determine their alignment from it unless you know them intimately as people and neither bork or notsci know me that well.

I don't think your read on me has evolved. You've added to it over time with commenting vague thoughts on how my tone sucks or you hate my interactions with Cakez but there's nothing that shows nuance and there's not a point where it feels like you care what color that I flip.

ok soooo you're basically telling me that you're so pissed off at sircakez for something that happened two months ago that you insta-scumread him and are aggressive abt it in a way that doesn't match anything he actually did here, in this game. and that that's a more likely explanation than you just deciding he was an easy place to push here and thus doing so - at a time in the game where iirc several other people were suspicious of him as well

and i will now note that in recent pages, as general feeling towards sircakez has shifted more towards a townread, you're also rethinking that for ??? reasons

I'm not confident in my ability to read cakez, but he feels pretty towny tbh

I'm starting to agree with this.

you're right, i don't know you from adam and maybe this is what you would do as town but:
a) people who i believe know you more than me (i.e. bork, notsci) also think this is weird
b) like i have a general vibe of what your towngame is supposed to be and true it's not firsthand but how you're interacting with sircakez here is not really fitting that paradigm. and like idk i'm usually kinda good at makign these sort of assessments, even if i don't have firsthand experience so to me this is worth taking into account.
(and hey if you want examples of this i actually can pull some recent ones! see: murdercat in panic room!)

~

also what exactly is the difference between 'read evolving' and 'adding more parts to the read as more things happen'?
like you're dinging me for evolving the read when ... you continue to post things i don't like and i explain why i don't like them.
not really sure what you're expecting from me here

~

mostly what i resigned into the hydra for is that i forgot to say earlier that i kinda dislike that the only thing nacho responded to in my post i made about/to him earlier was to discuss the prevelency of policy flips, and that he kinda ignored the rest of it

Sometimes I check the game when I'm walking into work or waiting for someone to come back to the office or waiting for someone to finish with their credit card application. When I post during these times I don't address everything I want to at once.

ok fair enuf, i'll retract that point - it looked to me at the time that you decided to respond to the prevelency of policy flips in lieu of anything else (and the things you didn't respond to are in my mind the more important parts)
but fair enuf

pedit - yes my apologies
~

skitter feels more like she's trying to win an argument than divine an argument but others aren't seeing it the way that I do.

also i don't think this is an accurate assessment

~

also i think this 'sheep me upon my misflip' thing is bizarre as anything given that *you don't seem to have any scumreads that are strong enough to sheep that way* anyways. i think i/we are your biggest scumread read, but even just this evening you're pushing us and then as i'm writing this you're backing away from us
like i'm not really sure what happened between the start of your catchup and like ~real-time~ that prompted you to change your mind since i haven't really been posting at all in between, but ok ...

but given all that who exactly do you want to get sheeped on?

~ skitter

[Venus Fly Trap]

sorry for the wall >.>

[Venus Fly Trap]

And wouldnt it be, like, smarter to just not join games together vs carrying a grudge and snap-reacting to getting scumread by someone who you clearly have some beef with?
(Like i avoided you lot for a bit till i got over it etc)

Does this really have anything to do with my alignment?

no you're right joining the game with cakez doesn't necessarily have much to do with your alignment; i was more responding to notsci's point about the grudge and how he was saying that i felt similarly so like i should maybe understand that you mgiht feel this way with cakez there, but my point is that i also handled it differently (namely, avoiding said people for a few months)

pedit sorry >.>
also hi ydra! can you tell mena i wanna play with him

~ skitter

[Venus Fly Trap]

TOWN
Kismet
Infinity
Notscience
SirCakez

town?
VFT
Salsa

bad
Not_Mafia
Disaster
Bulge

worse
L&G
Mom

Current popcorn is L&G --> Mom --> Bulge ---> Disaster ----> NM.

so my current issue is that as far as i can tell this is drastically different from where you started like two hours ago and i don't know how/why this changed and most of your townreads are sort of following the general popular ones and everyone bad and below are gonna be easier pushes than the people at the top

~ skitter

[Venus Fly Trap]

and i will now note that in recent pages, as general feeling towards sircakez has shifted more towards a townread, you're also rethinking that for ??? reasons

I think that the way that Cakez reacted to me - namely kind of doubting his push on me while also still pushing me and sort of defending my approach to him in a couple of places while still suspecting me - is nuance that Cakez is incapable of faking as scum currently.

I don't have anything against Cakez as a person - as a player, it bothers me when he pushes me and he pushes me and he pushes me without actually reading my responses to him. It goes beyond Popcorn Mafia. I don't really want to talk about it more than this - I don't think it's productive to figure out my alignment and I don't think it's good for game health for me to continue to talk about my frustrations with Cakez - done that enough already.

ya we can drop popcorn mafia
like yeah i see what you're saying and agree with u that cakez is more nuanced than i'd expect as scum but i have issues with the timing and progression of this
(and how i'm suddenly town and how you're now interacting with me)

~
notsci idk if that was to nacho or everyone but if it was to everyone idk if you'll like my answer so yeah

pedit i'm gonna be honest that that's not a really satisfactory response, i'm sorry

~ skitter

[Venus Fly Trap]

ok then my answer is that you're kinda clique-y and will overlook your friends being scummy cuz you don't want them to be scum

i am, of course, biased towards that answer due to prior experiences and maybe if i wasn't in those games i wouldn't feel that way

apologies if that's too blunt or rude and i believe you've made a substantial effort towards being better abt it

but ya
~ skitter

[Venus Fly Trap]

i feel kidna bad for actually writing that out :/

~ skitter

[Venus Fly Trap]

i'm gonna be honest i don't *think* nacho is trying to tilt you via ate but i think he may be trying to capitalize on your friendship (which i'm assuming you have to some extent from how you're talking? idk maybe i misread that bit) or at the very least on how you view his towngame and past shared games to get you to back off him via the whole 'let's do what we should have done in popcorn mafia and will you commit to sheeping my reads after i flip' thing
(and i already mentioned why i think that's bad in that he doesn't really have any reads strong enuf that would be worth sheeping like that just now anyways)

pedit yeah i already called out this his reads suddenly look like everyone else's >.>

~ skitter

[Venus Fly Trap]

yeah i meant that it does seem like you two know each other and that he'd be in that group of people who you'd be susceptible to that sort of effect from, if that makes sense

pedit yeah i was just saying that i think that notsci would respect nacho's towngame and that that's what nacho may be trying to capitalize on, is basically the point

i dont' actually know which of that group knows each other irl and ahve met and so on and so forth

[Venus Fly Trap]

ok well that's good cuz i'm already at that point with u lol

[Venus Fly Trap]

- i like the skitter reach out to mena in your slot but i'd like skitter analysis of mena instead

I need mena to post more >.>
Its gonna be easier for me to sort that hydra via mena than ydrasse, but i need to interact with him preferably in real time

I saw that you posted quite a lot (abt me, and all sorts of things), realistically i dont think i'm gonna have time to go thru that tonight, but i will circle back over the weekend (i.e. this means not before saturday night). If you have a couple of key points that you'd like to highlight now tho, i'll do my best to get to them sooner

My overall vibe tho is while i appreciate that you are now efforting, i feel like your present reads are conveniently popular, i disliked your approach to notsci last night (namely the 'sheep me when i die bit' when you didnt have reads of appropriate strength at the time, and didnt develop them until later), how you approached sircakez (i saw u say somewhere that you dislike that i'm assuming there's scum in your pair .... idk. I'm good at picking up on tvs interactions (ot at the very least not tvt interactions) and that's what it felt like to me), and lastly your progression on my slot, i still dont fully understand where the present townread came from at the time you developed it

I'm not super overwhelmed with what the bulge posted. I will admit that i skimmed a lot of it and focused on the bit abt me, but he seems to end up with a (mild?) townread on us and i'm also not sure how he got there ... at this point me/infinity/bork/notsci seem to be the popular townreads, and i imagine that if scum havent already given us a townread they might try to do so now while its cool (no matter the alignment of said people), so i'm a little dubious of reads that dont seem fully fleshed out

Other than that i'm not sure i have much to say .... there's some people i would like to interact with who havent really been posting much, so yeah

If there's something i missed that someone would like me to address, i would appreciate it if you'd requote it

~ skitter

@ffery vla fridays and saturdays

Idk if lilith is gonna be around much this weekend

[Venus Fly Trap]

Kismet
Infinity

Notsci

Sircakez, salsa

Nm, mom - null

Beeboy/misty

Bulge

Nacho

~
I'm gonna be honest i dont know where to put dc rn, i kinda want to put them above the null line but that doesnt feel quite right and null isnt either

I had to look up who the 12th player was, i forgot abt salsa >.>

But that'a kinda where i'm at

I dont really know what lilith is thinking beyond what she's posted here
~ skitter

[Venus Fly Trap]

skitter just townread me havent you learned by now ...........

- ydra

No

[Venus Fly Trap]

No

I can read mena better and we both know i cant really read you so like

[Venus Fly Trap]

Is that directed at me or ydra?

Either way i actualky dont think i have loads of meta on cakez and i dont think i can, like, adequately describe the difference in his town and scumgames the way i can for other people

Nothing you called out there really resonates with me but i think i simply dont have enuf experience with him

[Venus Fly Trap]

I want to talk with mena >.>

[Venus Fly Trap]

just popping in before I pass out. as before, please @ me if there’s specific stuff I need to respond to. I skimmed some but have not read the longer posts in depth. feeling like the wagons shifting away from nacho even though bork (who I think is pretty UTR) is/was voting for nacho is suspicious/noteworthy, but I’m not really sure what implications that has yet. also planning on reading nacho’s walls and back and forth with kismet but it won’t be before the weekend.

I want bulge to be town because it felt like we were mindmelding last night on infinity and lfg as far as I could tell though, that didn’t even merit a mention in bulge’s read on our slot - which in retrospect makes it seem like he was using me as a springboard to push infinity/l&g and that we weren’t mindmelding at all, because that’s usually a very prevalent part of my read on someone

goodbye for now. will try to check in again asap but don’t know when, I’m hoping hell season ends soon

- lilith

[Venus Fly Trap]

that’s your scumpool?

- lilith

[Venus Fly Trap]

aren’t those all people who said they didn’t want an NM elim? so you think these slots are all scum with NM but refused to elim him, effectively townsiding, because ?

- lilith

[Venus Fly Trap]

also i assume vfp is supposed to be us

can you explain how you got to this pool? and then how these reads make sense in the context of defending NM from elimination?

- lilith

[Venus Fly Trap]

Who says going against an NM elimination is town siding?

I don’t care to rehash a theory discussion. I’ve made my position on bussing very clear.

is this all you have to say in response to me?

- lilith

[Venus Fly Trap]

this game is annoying and I can't be fucked so ydra is running our slot until I feel like playing again

-Mena

what’s “annoying” about it

you feel like you did in panic room with this whole “it’s not MY fault everyone is scumreading me, read me better!!1!1!1!” and then flouncing off without giving us a way to read you better.

- lilith

[Venus Fly Trap]

@lilith

so this sticks out in your skimming

I see the @ but don’t understand what I’m supposed to be responding to. do you want to talk about anything?

- lilith

[Venus Fly Trap]

aren’t those all people who said they didn’t want an NM elim? so you think these slots are all scum with NM but refused to elim him, effectively townsiding, because ?

- lilith

also i assume vfp is supposed to be us

can you explain how you got to this pool? and then how these reads make sense in the context of defending NM from elimination?

- lilith

What's your opinion on the beginning of the game if you think 5that Nacho going for the NM pl is scum-motivated?

Conversely how do you suppose the scum partners of NM to react when they see scum!NM being pushed the way it was? I think this needs to be brought back because there was alot of pressure on Nacho for pressing against NM and no one is willing to talk to me about it. Activity plateaued as soon as Nacho moved away from the subject and no one is thinking about why that had even happened

okay once again I feel like you’re avoiding answering my question.

how did you get to this pool?

if I answer you about NM will you stop deflecting my questions? if NM is scum and scum bus him D1, they get to decide which townie to kill N1. if they don’t elim NM, then not only would they presumably sacrifice him N1 anyway, but they can’t kill the strong town voices D1 because no one is going to eliminate, say, bork. if scum want to get bork out of the way, they

have

to bus, and NM is—again, presumably—the natural bus target.

ergo, not all of the people defending NM can be scum. that’s just a stupid thing to do as scum.

now will you answer my question about how you got to this pool?

- lilith

[Venus Fly Trap]

The way mom is approaching sorting this game doesn't feel genuine

^

[Venus Fly Trap]

I can see this is happening here, and it's actually making Disaster Cartel look good. I don't see Leafeon and Glaceon vs Disaster Cartel as SvS yet.

what does this mean? DC wasn’t in the conversation as far as I can tell?

- lilith

(p.s. sorry I know I’m multi-posting a lot, on mobile and the whole quoting posts thing sucks)

[Venus Fly Trap]

Well, then why are you singling out Nachomamma8 only? Menalque (from Disaster Cartel) also has same Not_Mafia agenda, but don't understand why everyone is scumreading Nachomamma8 but not Menalque for this?
I also don't like when 2 heads of the same hydra have completely different pov, it's hard for me to sort them.

I was scumreading mena already? but for reasons other than/in addition to pushing NM elim. I talked about reasons I couldn’t understand nacho’s perspectives in the post you quoted; for mena it’s how similar he feels to panic room, I thought I mentioned this really early on as well.

- lilith

[Venus Fly Trap]

my brain is exploding, sorry if I missed anything. @ me again etc etc

pedit: you’re literally just proving me right. how are people supposed to 1) read you as town if you’re town and not doing anything to help them get to the right read, and 2) not draw parallels between this and a recent scumgame?

- lilith

[Venus Fly Trap]

fuck this tbh

half of you know for a fact im town anyway. and I think for the rest of you you should be able to tell from gamestate that I'm town here. because, again, half the plist knows my alignment already and they FUCKING WISH they could actually push me on anything from that wall but I've managed to coast thus far because the scumteam knows my thoughts come from a town perspective. anyway this game has caused me nothing but immense stress and anxiety the last 72+ hours so peace for now

i kinda hate this post and think it's scummy
(but i'm sorry to hear that it's causing you stress, i hope you feel better soon <3)

~ skitter

[Venus Fly Trap]

so in scum???? Lol this seems obvious.

yeah i think we're trending in that direction and that makes me sad :/
i'm not sure the tilt itself is inherently ai but i think he'd be more excited (to play with me) as town

~ sktiter

[Venus Fly Trap]

salsa's posting is town
mom's is just overwhelmingly meh

i'm kinda confused why the game has stalled
~ skitter

[Venus Fly Trap]

I don’t think scum bulge posts that to be honest skitter

And I’m also surprised he hasn’t garnered more pressure with how he’s been.

idk to me that post doesn't feel townie
but i'm gonna be honest here you're probably like six thousand times better reading him than me and if u think that's townie i can drop it for, like, today

~ skitter

[Venus Fly Trap]

Because we have the two hardest hitting scum members unable to get traction and their team of lurkers can’t bail them out/isn’t being scummy enough to divert attention

i mean yes basically

when i said confused i meant: this game shouldn't be stalling and it is and it feels like scum can't do anything and don't know whwat they ought to be doing and so the game is stalling

like i don't see why naturally the game is stalling if that makes sense

why is nacho stuck on three votes is beyond me >.>
i feel like if he were town here more people (ahem scum) would be voting him, no?

~ skitter

[Venus Fly Trap]

Nachomamma8 (3): Venus Fly Trap, Infinity 324, Kismet
Leafeon and Glaceon (2): Disaster Cartel, Nachomamma8
Momrangal (2): notscience, SirCakez

like imo the whole nacho wagon is town
leaf themselves are gross but i wouldn't touch that wagon rn
ig i could vote mom but idk why nacho has been stalling on those three votes the whole game

[Venus Fly Trap]

also i really wanted to play with mena and i'm kinda Sad that doesn't seem to be happening >.>

~ skitter

[Venus Fly Trap]

I can bring nacho to four I was going to ask for the hammer though. In townreading the whole wagon, do you disagree with either of those other two?

eh you can still have hammer but i want to bring the momentum back there. maybe vote now and if we actually get there i'll unvote and you can have hammer or something
i'm not sure what you're asking with the latter question, i'm sorry

yeah and for mena i'm p sure the tilt isn't ai but like i wish he was playing
i'm gonna like have to read the slot off of ydrasse and i'm not good at reading her ...

~ skitter

[Venus Fly Trap]

ah.

bork is never scum here in like a billion years and i don't see myself voting him this game unless it's like literally 3way and then i'd need to think abt it. (maybe this game actually only goes to 4way, you get my point)
inifinty isn't like *quite* as solidly town but i'm still p confident on her. like i would call her a slim chance of being scum and bork a microscopic chance of being scum

i thought i had said these reads prior but maybe i didn't make them as clear as i would have liked

for mena honestly i think the mental block is for irl reasons and nothing to do with nacho or anything this game
~ skitter

[Venus Fly Trap]

yeah i mean it's like *not helpful* at all i 100% agree but this batch of posting from the last day or so i don't think is ai
i think it's fair to try to read him off of what he's posting earlier in the week tho

why do you think that post from the bulge didn't come from scum-him?

~ skitter

[Venus Fly Trap]

fuck this tbh

half of you know for a fact im town anyway. and I think for the rest of you you should be able to tell from gamestate that I'm town here. because, again, half the plist knows my alignment already and they FUCKING WISH they could actually push me on anything from that wall but I've managed to coast thus far because the scumteam knows my thoughts come from a town perspective. anyway this game has caused me nothing but immense stress and anxiety the last 72+ hours so peace for now

i kinda hate this post and think it's scummy
(but i'm sorry to hear that it's causing you stress, i hope you feel better soon <3)

~ skitter

Hmmmm bulge seems to think he's being like ridiculously townie and that scum just cant push him because of that but i'm not sure that's actually the case? Like it feels like a misalignment between the source of his frustration and what i see is actually happening in the game if that makes sense

Like i'm not sure he's actually being perceived as being that townie and/or he's insinuating that scum know him too well to be able to push him here as he's being townie for him but that would imply that scum are in the people who know him but i dont think he's really approaching the game from the perspective that scum is in like {notsci, bork, etc} iirc

So i'm not really sure i agree with your conclusion notsci

But either way this probably isnt today's problem, we can deal with it tomorrow

[Venus Fly Trap]

and/or he's insinuating that scum know him too well to be able to push him here as he's being townie for him but that would imply that scum are in the people who know him but i dont think he's really approaching the game from the perspective that scum is in like {notsci, bork, etc} iirc

No i misread this part actually, scratch this bit

I dont really get why he thinks scum cant push him here tho, or why we should br able to tell off of gamestate that he's town

Like the reasoning 'half the pl knows i'm town' and 'scum should be able to tell my thoughts come from town' apply to any townie, no? Not sure why that should be +town for him in particular?

~ skitter

[Venus Fly Trap]

also i really wanted to play with mena and i'm kinda Sad that doesn't seem to be happening >.>

~ skitter

I’ll talk with you if there are things you wanna talk about

-Mena

Y is nacho town
Do u have any other reads of note
Is there anything i can do to get u back into the game

~ skitter

[Venus Fly Trap]

uh mena i can tell lilith not to interact with you but i'm not sure she actually did anything, like antagonizing really ....

also i'm not sure why you're reading my slot off of her and not me

~ skitter

[Venus Fly Trap]

Oh, actually infinity I could maybe add to that last group too, so 2/5 of (NM, bulge, mom, VFT, infinity) scum, with that number increasing if any of (salsa, cakez, leafy) aren’t

also i don't understand this like at all ...

~ skitter

[Venus Fly Trap]

uh mena i can tell lilith not to interact with you but i'm not sure she actually did anything, like antagonizing really ....

also i'm not sure why you're reading my slot off of her and not me

~ skitter

Lilith, who has very little experience playing with me as scum and has not got a great record of reading me as town when I’m town coming in and being like “hurr durr panic room 1-game meta” was antagonising when I’m getting shitpushed by like half the game

and bc I think there’s a chance scum you tries to involve me in the game anyway even if I think mostly scum!you would just shut me out and not care if

i

SR you so long as nobody cared what I thought

Whereas I, in the contrary to her reads on me, have a pretty good read rate on lili from our games together. I’ve got an okay one on you, but I feel more confident in reading her

i don't think she was trying to be antagonizing fwiw, but i'm sorry you feel that way

do you have an actual reason to think i'm scum here, or is it just that you think how i'm interacting with you could come from scum-me too?

i feel like you usually try to sort me first as town tho, that i'm usually a p high-priority sort for you and i'm not really getting that here, and ngl i think you trying to sort us off of lilith is weird

~ skitter

[Venus Fly Trap]

Oh, actually infinity I could maybe add to that last group too, so 2/5 of (NM, bulge, mom, VFT, infinity) scum, with that number increasing if any of (salsa, cakez, leafy) aren’t

also i don't understand this like at all ...

~ skitter

What do you not get about it

um all of it? your reads are super super super different from mine and i'm not really following how you got there?
like why is inifnity in that pool, i think she's townie
i don't think you're actually scumrading us enuf to put us in that pool either

actually i dn't mind nm, bulge, mom being there tbf

but like i'm baffled how you're approaching nacho, kismet, me and infinity

~ skitter

[Venus Fly Trap]

skitter does mena have a history of kinda "taking his ball and going home" / getting really acerbic as scum at all? i kinda saw it early in 2181 as town before he got replaced.

I ask because p44 struck a better note tonally than a lot of his early game stuff and I guess I'm not entirely sure he gets like that as scum in a spot where he's a pretty universally weak scumread but not under a ton of active pressure

i think it's more likely to come from town-him tbh; i don't think i've ever seen him be like ~prickly~ as scum and i think he knows how to play scum enuf that doing so wouldn't win him any points and would try to avoid it

~ skitter

[Venus Fly Trap]

also i'm not sure he's actually scumreading lilith (and thus us) so much as he's pissed at her (i don't think she actually did anything bad, just saying)
not sure scum-him takes this approach to my slot tbh

~ skitter

[Venus Fly Trap]

I think I’m more paranoid about you than normal because of the v high rand!scum potential, sorry. So I feel more confident on sorting lili than you because I think I will always struggle to spot scum!you on D1

is this y u aren't doing the whole 'skitter is always town day1' thing?

ngl you're interacting very differently around my slot than how i'd expect and it's weirding me out a bit
i'm not sure it's scum indicative per se but this isn't how i'd expect town-you to behave either

~ skitter

[Venus Fly Trap]

but like i'm baffled how you're approaching nacho, kismet, me and infinity

I think I already explained nacho kinda did you want me to try and explain any of that more or?

Kismet I don’t see why he was so town before the identity reveal but I guess is town if everyone is saying that bork would never play like this ever as scum

you I just did

Infinity I don’t think has been particularly towny so far? But she hasn’t done anything that makes me want to like throw her into a guillotine either so far either. Idk I think my expectations for infinity are dropping but her also just being like “don’t talk if you’re not gonna be nice” instead of like, making any effort to engage me just also felt bad and I would kind of expect her to know by now that that’s not a useful or effective way of engaging with me and I think scum!infinity would be pretty happy for town!me to be a good prospective elim and very checked out of the game

for nacho yes
bork is just town. from tenet + the normal i think i know what he plays like as each alignment respectively and this isn't his scumgame

infinity has been townie for her and i think you should see that and i don't think she's particularly been trying to capitlize on you being checked otu of the game either
~ skitter

[Venus Fly Trap]

also i'm not sure he's actually scumreading lilith (and thus us) so much as he's pissed at her

this is maybe possible i guess

-all M, obviously

i'm p sure that this is what's happening tbh

~ skitter

[Venus Fly Trap]

at this point I'll yeet any of (Leafy, Mom, DC) for sure
Still not sold on Nacho

why aren't you convinced on nacho?

and: peta!!! hi

~ skitter

[Venus Fly Trap]

if nacho is actually town here i can't imagine why it's so hard to get votes on him >.>
peta why is he town?
and what other reads do you have if you've been following along?

pedit meh ok, you?

~ skitter

[Venus Fly Trap]

it's like entirely a meta thing where i just got off losing to him in a game offsite where he was nothing like this - was lifeless, shit he was saying made no sense, generally hung in the background - and here he's pretty much the exact opposite (man talks the talk about loving scum but he can't walk the walk). i think the response to pressure has been authentically town for him, i don't think he starts off the game with a move that draws negative attention to himself like trying to policy n_m as scum because he knows he'll get blowback, and the reasons for voting him have been really ??? to me in general

i'm assuming he was scum here?
kismet has a p good case for scum-nacho a couple of pages back, and my reasons for scumreading him basically boil down to the fact that he doesn't really have any progression on any reads (particularly on myself) so much as they seem to flip on a dime when convenient

maybe i'm ridiculously tunneled but i just don't see town-nacho here and i don't know why it's so ~hard~ to get votes on him ...

also how are you reading kismet now that it's established it's bork?

[Venus Fly Trap]

peta do u have a read on me?
(skitter)

[Venus Fly Trap]

i mean of course you're gonna say that since he's defending you >:(

[Venus Fly Trap]

and like he's trying to find someone who's flippable who's not himself

[Venus Fly Trap]

i mean of course you're gonna say that since he's defending you >:(

Yes. Yes I am. It is refreshing to have someone defending me for once because I am obviously town here and anyone who has glanced at my recent scum meta would know it.

I am looking for players who are flippable other than me. Because I am town and they are possibly not town. Because me in town for another day is much more advantageous to town then Bulge in town for another day regardless of his alignment at this point.

I maybe would not be playing so heavily for survival at this point if I haven't been public enemy #1 for the entirety of this game (and I don't think I've fucked up significantly!!! I've been weird but I'm a weird person but I don't think I've fucked up this game to deserve this level of heat!!!).

And yeah maybe he is scum who is defending me because I'd expect him to townread me here but that's okay. Because Petapan makes me happy. And if he makes me happy then I don't want to die trying to kill him even though yes. Figured people would dislike me moving my vote.

i mean yeah sure it must be nice that he's defending you and all
but you're literally dropping your current scumread (which i don't think i ever fully understood in the first place, but whatever), to vote someone else basically just cuz they look like a semiviable wagon

literally none of the scummy slots are wiling to vote you >.>
and i'm starting to get frustrated because it's like impossible to make this wagon happen and it really really really shouldn't be but the votes just don't seem to be here but given how you're being read and how the gamestate is that oughtn't be the case

but like it looks like your partners are just being stubborn and not voting so we're at this bizarre standstill that i don't know how to break and just yeah
it's liek the exact inverse of all those times i went 'oh these wagons are too easy they're misflips'

pedit bad vote

~ skitter

[Venus Fly Trap]

they haven't, and he's like the second towniest person in the thread, so try again

~ skitter

[Venus Fly Trap]

I mean am i scum? I'm sitting here trying to get the exact same wagon he is

...

[Venus Fly Trap]

I mean am i scum? I'm sitting here trying to get the exact same wagon he is

...

not in the same specific way and you've also engaged with me in a way he hasn't

like, you, bork, nacho have all actually talked with me and tried to see with my perspective where his reaction has just looked like someone frustrated the easy misyeet slipped from his fingers

I dont even really think i have ...
And i've been frustrated too

[Venus Fly Trap]

If I was going for an easy misyeet why the fuck would I choose nacho

Do you even read what you say before you post it? Half the plist is hard lurking

i meant your reaction to my replace in

Wait are you or nacho tje easy misflip here
I thought u were talking abt nacho

[Venus Fly Trap]

i'm going to derail shit and then the wagon scum wanted is going to evaporate

I think said wagon is p damn townie and unlikely to be scum motivated

[Venus Fly Trap]

skitter said mena doesn't want me to talk to him which made me not really want to open this game today :/

@cakes I still haven't read the nacho walls from like 15 pages ago, but I think skitter and I are on the same page re: nacho or at least I trust her judgment on this, I think we're both feeling really frustrated at the lack of traction on his wagon and our best guess is that the wagon is stalling because scum are trying to divert the wagon elsewhere, namely petapan/DC/mom slots. It did feel like he backed off of us really quickly once bork said he was townreading us. I'll grant that it could have been a genuine reevaluation but given the current gamestate neither of us believe that's the case. I don't really remember reading recent posts from you or if I did then I forgot what you've said.... sorry. I'm trying to put time aside at some point this week to actually read stuff because I'm so behind, so if there's specific posts you want me to look at and talk about with you that would be helpful.

- lilith

[Venus Fly Trap]

I have more thoughts on mena but I don't really want to talk about it anymore because I feel like I'm just going to get attacked and feel shitty afterwards

- lilith

[Venus Fly Trap]

@peta how are you reading infinity?

- lilith

[Venus Fly Trap]

heya i'm around but a bit behind

mena i kinda want u to articulate a read on my half of the slot

~ skitter

[Venus Fly Trap]

VOTE: Not Mafia

lol

[Venus Fly Trap]

I think I’m more paranoid about you than normal because of the v high rand!scum potential, sorry. So I feel more confident on sorting lili than you because I think I will always struggle to spot scum!you on D1

is this y u aren't doing the whole 'skitter is always town day1' thing?

ngl you're interacting very differently around my slot than how i'd expect and it's weirding me out a bit
i'm not sure it's scum indicative per se but this isn't how i'd expect town-you to behave either

~ skitter

yes

it's a weird setup and I feel like the rand!chance of your slot being scum is too high to just give a pass this game

the same reason why just writing off NM as someone we shouldn't flip bc tOo HaRd tO rEaD is bad

i mean, like, this is fair, ig
but i also don't really feel like you've been trying much to sort me in the way i'd expect given that
kinda feel like you're writing me off as 'hard-to-read' and then just leaving it there

~ skitter

[Venus Fly Trap]

For the record maras near 95% scum with that and her not voting nacho when she had a scumread there is sketchy

yes
the thing with scum-nacho is that i think he's going to get harder to flip as time goes on; if we flip scum the people who'd be pushing him are gonna die

[Venus Fly Trap]

see i can already tell this whee let's all hold hands we're all so town everything is great and the game is solved on day 1 dynamic is incredibly unhealthy especially looking at where it's leading

and i'm wondering how many times you'll end up killing obvtown before you realize this townblock is toxic and you are being pocketed

i mean in my mind the game is kinda closed to solved tbh
and i see a lot of things pointing towards em being right, and i don't see a lot of things pointing towards me being wrong

not sure why 'toxic' is hte right word here, or who exactly is pocketing me, but ok

[Venus Fly Trap]

For the record maras near 95% scum with that and her not voting nacho when she had a scumread there is sketchy

yes
the thing with scum-nacho is that i think he's going to get harder to flip as time goes on; if we flip scum the people who'd be pushing him are gonna die

although thinking abt this more i'm not sure that this is inherently a problem. we only need 3/5, we don't need all. if we know who the rest of them are, it's not the worst thing in the world if we can't get nacho but we get the others

VOTE: mom

[Venus Fly Trap]

let's see if this works

[Venus Fly Trap]

It’s not like an indefinite write-off tho. To be crystal clear: i think your half of the slot is towny. You look like you’re solving, your tone is excellent, most importantly for me you helped me get re-engaged which I think quite a lot of times doesn’t happen if you don’t reach out when you did and in the way you did, and I don’t see a lot of motivation for scum!you doing that but I absolutely do for town!you

BUT I don’t like that you’re targeting nacho, your other head has worried me, and without any info from flips etc I don’t feel confident saying I think your slot as a whole is town or that I feel confident in you being town, even if yes, I am townreading you rn

i mean i didn't get the vibe that you were townreading me/us, i thought you were kinda putting us in your scumpool cuz of lilith

nacho is just scum here and i'm baffled that you're townreading him: his read progression makes no sense and he's being blatantly oppurtusnistic and survivalistic, and just saying whatever if he thinks it'll ward away votes and/or get votes on a different wagon

pedit: idk what you mean by 'doesn't seem capable of strong arming thus far'
and i mean that there's like 4 votes for him and i'd bet good money that if we flip scum today one of those 4 will die, thus having one less vote for him
but yeah you're right being r.e. 1/3 of the way to winning. not sure we need him per se if we know who the rest are.
but it's frustrating cuz i just know he's scum but can't seem to flip him and if we flip scum-whoever today one of the votes will dissappear

i really prefer nacho in like all universes, i want to make that super clear
but the votes there seem impossible so maybe this will be easier cuz a lot of people seem willing to vote her

[Venus Fly Trap]

but i don't want to flip cakez or salsa, i want to flip nacho ....

[Venus Fly Trap]

Let me see if we can get the CYCLE OF JUSTICE on our side skitter

?

[Venus Fly Trap]

nacho is just scum here and i'm baffled that you're townreading him: his read progression makes no sense and he's being blatantly oppurtusnistic and survivalistic,

okay can you run me through this more or give me the cliff notes à la Kismet

- uh his townread of me came out of thin air once other people were townreading me
- the timing of his sircakez read was similarly bad
- at a time that he literally didn't have any scumreads, he kept trying to get notsci to commit to sheeping his reads in a way that looked manipulative/buddy-ish (i.e. capatilizing on the fact that notsci respects town-him's reads even tho he didn't have strong reads to speak of at the time)
- his l/g (now peta) vote looked like he was looking for places to vote
- unvoted just cuz peta repped into the slot and was defending him

like idk i don't see much good here

[Venus Fly Trap]

wait peta is voting mom too?

pedit VOTE: nacho

[Venus Fly Trap]

i mean i didn't get the vibe that you were townreading me/us, i thought you were kinda putting us in your scumpool cuz of lilith

Bc I’m not townreading you(pl) I’m townreading you(sing) and jury is still out on your slot overall

Basically

I think I can be wrong on you and right on lili where I’m TRing you and SRing her

But I think that if I’m TRing her then very likely your slot overall is town

Which is why I tried to extend her an olive branch because I would like to talk to her more. Was also never my intention to make her feel like she doesn’t want to play the game and I feel bad if that’s how she took me saying I didn’t wanna speak to her but I was feeling v pissed off at the time with how she was engaging with me

she is a little upset by what u said actually
idk
i don't want to defend/towncase the other half of my slot cuz that would be weird but i don't think you're reading her well

and idk i still find it weird that you're reading us off of lilith and not me

[Venus Fly Trap]

okay so I’m interested in the TR on your slot but and the way he’s approaching notsci (a lot of which I think I missed from when I was really checked out and need to go back through) but I think the other bits aren’t really valid in a scum case on nacho

the cakez read was fine because cakez’ opening was not good, the l/g vote was fine bc the slot was terrible and is still like questionable but (and this applies to final point too) i think peta is decently towny apart from his weird notsci push but either way he’s definitely redeemed the slot from where it was at while l/g were in it

ok see if you can explain his townread on me, i'll wait
wrt sircakez i meant the timing of his townread on him and not his scumread on him; i decided i'm ignoring the popcorn mafia bits
i don't really like the l/g vote, and don't think peta has been townie (and don't think you can just brush off the 'weird' notsci push, but ok)
and i wouldn't really say peta's redeemed the slot either

[Venus Fly Trap]

she is a little upset by what u said actually
idk
i don't want to defend/towncase the other half of my slot cuz that would be weird but i don't think you're reading her well

and idk i still find it weird that you're reading us off of lilith and not me

okay well like, can you convey to her that I didn’t want for that to happen and that id like to talk to her

and I’m not asking you to do that, but I would like to read her more

Idk why you’re finding this weird, when have I ever been that confident in my ability to read you? I don’t think I’ve confidently proclaimed your alignment *on D1* since Ali v pine which is damn near two years and who knows how many games ago now

'

- i passed the message along
- i'm >90% sure i was not in that game
- i feel like nearly every game i've played with you you usually try to find town-me as a priority and you hadn't really been prioritizing that here

[Venus Fly Trap]

don't think peta has been townie (and don't think you can just brush off the 'weird' notsci push, but ok)

I think it’s quite explicable as notsci is being dickish in how he’s pushing his reads and if I didn’t already TR him I can see how peta being pissed off with him translated that into seeing him as scum

I think he’ll come round but I think notsci’s “oh sorry you repped into a scum slot” would be frustrating as either alignment and I think it’s pretty NAI that peta SR it

peta isn't really the sort ot get pissed off at tho, and also i don't think that would lead him to scumread someone

@nacho, no it doesn't really make me feel better but i'm not really that surprised

[Venus Fly Trap]

You were in the avengers hydra and you were the sole reason why that game was hell for me from like D3 on

Ty for passing the message

I think the difference is I don’t really do that? I just assume town!you until there’s evidence proving otherwise and mostly that works out pretty well. I think I’ve already covered why I’m not here, and it’s because the scum!rand % is so high. But I think we’re getting to the point where we’re just going in circles. You’re gonna find it weird that I’m not like more invested in reading your head but I’m still gonna keep townreading you but not committing to a hard read on your overall slot until I have a better handle on lili

i was in the avengers hydra a different game, sky was the mod, and i'm reasonably confident i got flipped day2 that game.

and meh i guess i see your point. fair enuf. she is a bit frustrated with you tho, fair warning

peta isn't really the sort ot get pissed off at tho, and also i don't think that would lead him to scumread someone

This doesn’t really jam that well with what I know of peta who I think has been generally quite emotional and prickly when I’ve played with him

I’m particularly thinking JK9++ when he felt he was getting shitpushed in the later game sections

i actually don't think he was anything like this in jk9++, even when he was getting shitpushed later on
he kept trying to work with people to flip dats/nm

[Venus Fly Trap]

Also VFT is now in my highest tier townreads

wait y

[Venus Fly Trap]

i actually don't think he was anything like this in jk9++, even when he was getting shitpushed later on
he kept trying to work with people to flip dats/nm

Wait not jk9++ then, sorry, PyP? The one where lili was scum who repped out and town had one of the worst miselims of all time in site history when I was limmed the day before lylo (also, that description of the lim: not my own words, someone PM’d me after the game to characterise it that way)

right, that one
i'm gonna be honest i don't remember it *as well* as i liked (namely, the parts that happened after i died)
but i still don't he scumread people there just cuz he was annoyed with them

~
and wrt pokemon upick
meh fair enuf but i find it weird that this is literally the first time you referenced it in 2+ years

pedit yes as always the vc's are lovely ffery

[Venus Fly Trap]

but i don't think his reads *are* really based on emotionality usually tho, that's my point
like tenet, that mini normal, jk++
even in pyp i think he got super annoyed and that he may have *given up* pushing what he believed to be right iirc because he didn't think it could/would happen, but i don't think his reads ultimately get influenced by his emotions that much tbh

~
mena can be town i think

[Venus Fly Trap]

you mean the fact that he's been consistently townreading her?
i do think that if they're scum together that he's trying to 'shield' her so to speak from being pushed/scrutiny

but ngl i kinda independantly of nacho think she's on the townier side

[Venus Fly Trap]

BULGE I SEE YOU COME VOTE NACHO

salsa also still active on site

You say you realize you're tunnelling but you haven't showed any signs of reconsidering. Why are you so adamant against even talking about NM?

mom honestly i don't get why you're focusing on nm so much

~ skitter

[Venus Fly Trap]

ok non-answer r.e. nacho noted

[Venus Fly Trap]

what does that even mean >.>
who's being chainsawed

~ skitter

[Venus Fly Trap]

and why is nacho town?

[Venus Fly Trap]

i bitched about this type of dynamic to you, i thought you were better than this, i guess not

I'm not really sure what you're referring to, but ok. what exactly r u finding troublesome with the current dynamic
Also dont really like u handwaving away my nacho scumread

~ skitter

[Venus Fly Trap]

nacho is just scum here and i'm baffled that you're townreading him: his read progression makes no sense and he's being blatantly oppurtusnistic and survivalistic,

okay can you run me through this more or give me the cliff notes à la Kismet

- uh his townread of me came out of thin air once other people were townreading me
- the timing of his sircakez read was similarly bad
- at a time that he literally didn't have any scumreads, he kept trying to get notsci to commit to sheeping his reads in a way that looked manipulative/buddy-ish (i.e. capatilizing on the fact that notsci respects town-him's reads even tho he didn't have strong reads to speak of at the time)
- his l/g (now peta) vote looked like he was looking for places to vote
- unvoted just cuz peta repped into the slot and was defending him

like idk i don't see much good here

@peta

[Venus Fly Trap]

isn't lilith like eminently more readable than you, what's the problem with him doing that

Cuz he's entered every game i've played with him in the past two years either townbinning me or making me a priority sort so for *him* (i.e. in particular) to not be approaching my slot thru me is weird

[Venus Fly Trap]

I'm p sure that's not the game he's referring to

At the same time, i did forget abt that
(And, uh, sorry for the tunnel again)

Ok given that mena actually maybe has a point

~ skitter

[Venus Fly Trap]

sorry really rough week, I tried to log on to read after I finished work last night and instead just passed out

mena you don’t get to be a butt to me and then act like you’ve been wronged. I made one observation about you and you decided that was cause to go nuclear and get toxic and then blamed me for it. I don’t want to talk to you like, at all.

salsa vote nacho please?

- lilith

[Venus Fly Trap]

Cakes why did you decide to trust us? it seemed like you were building up to a scumread on our slot earlier

- lilith

[Venus Fly Trap]

I've already stated it.

If town gave you an opening to remove one of the strongest town players and defend one of your own, you wouldn't take it? Its low risk high reward unless someone spotted it

okay but which actual person pushing nacho’s wagon is the scum though. you keep spouting these theoretical statements and not actually saying a name

I think theres a chainsaw effect happening especially if Nacho rand town here, and it's an effect that happened under everyone else's noses that town got wrapped up in it. I think VFT was a major component in that and one of infinity/notsci

At the same time I don't know if noddy dogmatically pushes this hard if he doesn't actually beleive in his push. He sets himself up as being largely responsible for a Nacho!town elimination and last I remember he doesn't really have the gusto or balls to do that

is this supposed to be shading our slot for pushing nacho? you think that instead of letting our partner NM just die and get a town NK off, scum!skitter and I decided we were going to push a miselim on one of the more vocal slots and then refuse to back off for 60 pages? have you thought about how little traction this wagon has gotten? what scum motivation would we have to stay on this wagon and not try to elim one of the other slots you think is town

also you still haven’t provided any explanation for your scumpool

- lilith

[Venus Fly Trap]

Cakes why did you decide to trust us? it seemed like you were building up to a scumread on our slot earlier

- lilith

also do you not trust bork? you didn’t mention him when you voted nacho

- lilith

[Venus Fly Trap]

I'm gonna be vla for a day or two, sorry

~ skitter

[Venus Fly Trap]

I tried and you told me no

Reread maras stances on nacho they are hot garbage

not just her stances on nacho

- lilith

[Venus Fly Trap]

I was pretty much just waiting because nacho and peta wanted to talk and on the off chance both are town I'd rather not look like a giant tool postgame

only a moderate sized one

yeah this

- lilith

[Venus Fly Trap]

I hope you're feeling better

I'm getting mine today so might not be around depending on how i feel too

~ skitter

[Venus Fly Trap]

Are we basically just waiting for nacho's final thoughts at this point?

Pedit i mean .... why not

~ skitter

[Venus Fly Trap]

zzzz

although if nacho is scum peta is just absolutely dead meat next no questions asked

how many thumbs up can I give this

- lilith

[Venus Fly Trap]

@salsa who are you scumreading again

- lilith

[Venus Fly Trap]

??? you keep calling things "gross misrepresentation" when it's literally someone just summarizing what you said

please quote where you've explained why each person in your scumpool is there. please explain how I am "grossly misrepresenting you" because I have looked at your ISO four or five times and can't find any explanations beyond that skitter and I must be chainsawing NM because ??? reasons even though you've now just called NM town.

these reads literally make no sense. same with peta's

- lilith

[Venus Fly Trap]

idk I feel like I must be going insane. chainsawing nacho????

- lilith

[Venus Fly Trap]

i'm doing a hard reset after yesterday >.>
especially re-examining my townreads
i still think that bork is outside of his scumrange but like everyone else

i wanna note tho that i'm actually feeling loads better abt mena after teh nacho townflip .... i think if he's scum he lolslaps a townread on me and uses that as an excuse to sheep me and get on wagon, and he had numerous oppurtunities to do so, but didn't

i think not_mafia actually posting real thoughts is scum-indicative for him ... like he posts more 'real' / less inane stuff when he's scum i'm p sure
the fact that the wagon is actually happening now but didn't really happen yesterday makes me think that if he's scum they're cool with bussing him now

~ skitter

[Venus Fly Trap]

VOTE: sircakez

i didn't like the catchup

i don't think his reasoning is very thorough and seems to be fairly tailored towards not sticking out in thread state, plus some of his reactions (specifically @ DC) felt kinda overblown

~leaf

i think this probably (?) isn't a scum vote on a partner given that it's for somewhat shitty reasons at a time where sircakez was being somewhat suspected for his entrance and then they never took the vote off, but were p content just vaguely reiterating they still scumread him


~ skitter

[Venus Fly Trap]

sorry i had to go deal with something

Be town or die

where are you holding with the bulge .... do u think that e1 vote can come from town?

~ skitter

[Venus Fly Trap]

i'm not really liking iverson thus far

~ skitter

[Venus Fly Trap]

i guess my big point here is that people who think mara is scum should either be

1) pushing mara, "hot amazeballs scum counterwagon to flipped town"
2) finding who in the fuck was scum pushing nacho, which mara built up as a counterwagon to

going on nm to me, as someone who thinks mara is scum out of the gate is ?????????

(mara is mom, right)
i don't really like mara independantly but my issue with calling her scum is sort of this first point here: why the fuck did her counterwagon even happen
nacho's wagon obviously predated hers so his wasn't, like, a *response* to scum-her's, so that narrative for scum-her just doesn't even make sense

and for the second point, well, that's kinda the conceit of the game, figuring out who was scum pushing nacho there and, more interestingly, why it stalled so many times given that he flipped town. that's kinda the question that i'm mulling over rn

~ skitter

[Venus Fly Trap]

I think you're town and Salsa is pretty transparent, cakez whole trajectory is pretty disgusting,

he makes posts with a lot of words and looks like he's solving but his conclusions are always so surface level and obvious

no

[Venus Fly Trap]

Scum are going all out to get 2-0 and put us on the back foot for the rest of the game, there’s at least 1, probably 2 scum already on me here, if I were scum I would 100% have been the sacrifice

why didn't they try to flip you yesterday, and why would you have 100% been the sacrifice

(why i'm asking questions that i'm probably not going to get an answer to is beyond me, but eh)

~ skitter