Deconstructing Agar’s case. I’ll follow up on each of these points in the subsequent agar case when I eventually get the time for it. This should be enough that y’all decide to start voting Agar though…
1.) Hopkirk threw RC’s name in because he knew it would enrage LLD and Hopkirk is obviously a piece of shit who’d do this as scum so must be scum
This is the thing everything Agar’s been saying is founded on since it’s essentially when he decided he’d treat anything I said as coming from scum then start looking for explanations for why it came from scum. Two main points on this
- Hopkirk made that joke with the intent of pissing LLD off. Response – like… fuck you? This is premised on me being a shitty person and the fact that you’ve stuck to it the entire game at what seems to be 100% likelihood for literally no reason means you’re accusing me of being a shitty person. You’re saying that ‘Scum!Hopkirk would say this to start conflict’ which is deeply insulting even when I’m town since you’re saying you’re convinced that I’m the kind of person who’d do that as scum (/saying you think it’s within my range. It’s not because I’m not an asshole trying to cause conflict and cause people to be uncomfortable for an advantage). Either you’re scum or you’re actively insulting me so I’m hoping you’re scum here. Pretty sure about it too.
You can see me joking about toxic 1v1s all the time. See one night stand for a whole bunch of examples where I suggest I get into a toxic 1v1 with someone, we throw joking insults at each other for a while, then we townread each other.
- Hopkirk wouldn’t make that joke as town but would if scum. Response- (my jokes are presumably NAI. In irl mafia Hectic once realized my jokes were better quality as scum because I don’t preplan them so it was indicative I was thinking more about joking than scumhunting (it did work to pocket people until then), when I realized this I scaled it back to the point where the tell no longer worked). I believe any joke I make as scum/town I could/would make as the other alignment.
(also other stuff like it relies on Hopkirk being aware how much they dislike RC and so on, but that’s covered by the above two points)
So this is based on a flawed and insulting view of me as a person and backed by nothing but agar going ‘yeah, this seems like something Hopkirk would (only) do as scum’ and becoming locked on that without any actual thought on it. More likely he was doing this to try and turn LLD on me rather than pushing Hercule again. He knew it was a TvT and he wanted to make it worse by trying to misinterpret what I was saying in a crappy way. EVERYONE who’s commented on him has disagreed with him on it including- Dunn and LLD themselves (as they didn’t comment on it and would have if they thought it was serious). Despite everyone disagreeing with him personality read on me, he’s stuck to it despite having never met me before outside of the abandoned d1.
Agar specifically took something that was clearly intended between a joke and used it to try and start conflict between me/LLD – a TvT. Like it’s clearly just outright attempting to stir up issues between town
2.) Hopkirk says things then clarifies the meaning later.
Counterpoint- this is how I talk/think.
Evidence- here’s some posts from my most recent game (town obviously) that finished before team mafia began.
viewtopic.php?p=12485305#p12485305
viewtopic.php?p=12494327#p12494327
viewtopic.php?p=12475737#p12475737
that's without anyone actually commenting on issues with my phrasing. if it's commented on obviously i'm going to be clearer. everything i said follows logically in terms of meaning and your misrepresentation of it nobody agrees with. you keep saying there's tons of examples but you have ONE from before you said there were tons, it's been disproven so isn't valid, and you haven't brought up others.
For more, read any/all of my other games because this is my style. I’m aware my wording can sometimes be confusing. There’s a solution to that – ask me what I mean if you’re confused what I mean. Agar has never done this.
At no point has agar
asked me to clarify
what I mean. He’s exclusively gone to pointing out that it must come from scum when he’s claiming my meaning is ambiguous/fake instead of asking clarifying questions to
actually work out
what I mean.
Choosing not to do this is bad if he aims to seriously work out my alignment since if he’s trying to show that I change my meaning when asked about it then… he isn’t taking the obvious step to try and legitimately do that. He’s instead using each alleged ‘example’ to say ‘see this is why Hop is scum’. This is working backwards from a position while using whatever I say to try and further justify it, and reeks of posturing.
Notably, nobody who’s commented on any of these examples have agreed with him, people have disagreed (eg Dunn who is town), nobody who’s familiar with my play is in agreement with him while people who ARE familiar with it are disagreeing with him. He’s instead relying on some guy I’ve never heard let alone played with.
(these two are less comprehensive as they don’t factor into my case on Agar so they’re inherently less substantial)
3.) I’m getting bored tbh. See literally any game because I constantly ask people what they think about x or their thoughts when I’m in conflict with someone else. Here’s one example of me asking how they viewed me (I was town obviously) based on my half of a toxic 1v1 (what I called it before, during, and afterwards) because one is enough to disprove this when you can find it in any of my games -eg
viewtopic.php?p=12475447#p12475447
ctrl f that thread with 'what do you think' or 'how do you read' or 'how are you reading' for examples of some of this other stuff
4.) Did you read the last game where I attacked Unwnd the moment he started pushing me? See also… gee is it any other game again? It sure is. If people push me then I push back. Sometimes that’s with scumreads, othertimes it’s just by throwing shade at them. Like with LLD in Death Curse that I mentioned a few times earlier when I had them as locktown and they scumread me. I just kept throwing shade at them in basically half my posts- stuff like accusing them of being a bad townleader who was dooming us all for x/y reason.
Additions
- Ooh, it’s stuff that Agar didn’t comment on at the time that’s not even true. If people think my reasons for townlocking players are invalid maybe they should comment on them. Don’t pay any attention to Agar here (because what he’s saying isn’t reflective of reality) who, instead of asking more questions about the reads, just says they’re invalid as the executive summary of the read isn’t good enough for them hence must be 100% of it. I still hard stand by each of the reads if anyone was wondering.
- Can anyone read my iso and seriously say there’s no reasons there why I don’t like Agar? This is objectively untrue. A more substantial case I need time to make that I only really have over the weekend (unless I’m pissed off by stuff like… agar)
- I have a shitton of scumhunting. Well, I say scumhunting, most of it is townhunting since I prefer to find town then POE. As is very clear. See multiple games where I’ve described my style in detail to be this. Agar is my most confident scumread, but I’m also confident the rest of the scum are within my POE. I ask questions of other people on reads as it helps me sort them + I’m willing to sheep my townreads reads. None of this is meaningful.
- This isn’t actually saying anything? It’s saying ‘Hop’s reads are wifom. Scum like to use wifom. Hence, Hop is scum’. That’s just… bad logic at best?
Note - my agar case is mostly pointing out how bad his progression/read on me is since it's outside of something i can see coming from a reasonable town perspective who's actually thinking about things rather than trying to justify a terribly flimsy read that he got called out on but somehow isn't getting called out on by enough people to die... there's not a smoking gun beyond that, it's just constant terrible interactions in regards to me
There's no reaching. I've become enlightened.
)m but I actually narrowed it all down to just 2 possible solves (Well.. 2 "most likely" possible solves) that are:
tier read tbh. i don't think anything you've said feels AI
THAT is part of why a reread during the night is a must. Whether you vocalize your thoughts explicitly or use them to form reads is your own choice.