Do gendered role names make sense?

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I have legitimately never seen mailman named mailman. I've used it as messenger for years, which is probably the most descriptive way to name it regardless of the discussion of whether it should be gendered or not.

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Weird. It definitely could be a quirk of my experience, but that is my perception nonetheless.

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Strong willed actually has a functional difference as well, and is weaker as a modifier.

As a 1:1 you could just take the vig strongman term of Juggernaut.

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I know Strong-Willed as a stronger version of Strongman - unlike Strongman, Strong-Willed prevents redirects as well.

Strong willed explicitly doesn't stop doctor saves, which is arguably more common than redirects. The salient point is that they are in fact different roles.

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Juggernaut seems like a good replacement and would go a long way towards resolving confusion between those two roles/modifiers as well.

Low key I would like the switch even without the gender association for that reason, as this isn’t the first time it’s come up for me. Also, to preempt accusations of knowing things, I found juggernaut by looking at the wiki page in the first place.

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Beloved princess, btw, could easily be shortened to just beloved as a modifier.

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/inb4 someone makes a beloved goon setup.

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^ another solid point in favor of changing beloved princess: they’re usually not bulletproof.

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I feel like most of the gendered mafia terms are either rare or poorly named enough that the answer to “Should we change them” can be answered with yes.

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Beloved Princess Beloved as modifier frees up design space, net positive change.
Dreaming God Could easily be shortened to Dreamer, and the role comes up very rarely anyway.
Godfather might be an exception as a movie reference.
Hero (again, may or may not be gendered) personally I don’t see this as a gendered role, so...
Huntsman already has a name: Elite Bodyguard
Judas (this one is going to be really difficult to find another term for, as this is a proper noun) possible exception as a historical reference, but also just never comes up.
King I don’t know, tbh. Monarch seems like a fine replacement if a replacement is desired.
Kingmaker I think the game theory aspect and gender neutrality of this one make it fine to leave as is?
(Normal role) Macho (this one gets in this list via being a word that means masculine) this and king are probably the most likely to need changing on the basis of being offensive, but I don’t know what we’d change it to.
(Normal role) Mailman I think messenger describes the role better in the first place, but it’s not a hill I’d die on.
Phantom Queen what even is this? Like... has it been used more than once?
Priest (yet again, may or may not be gendered) like hero, I see this as a gender less term, although I am not a final arbiter by any means
Prince barely fits the role, stopgap in the first place
Saulus (this one is also going to be really difficult to find another term for, as this is a proper noun) see Judas
(Normal role) Strongman I support changing this to differentiate between it and strong willed and juggernaut already works as a replacement.
Zombie Lord (this one is a stretch) see phantom queen

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The female verions of Preist is Priestress so yeah, this is indeed gendered

The feminine form of Hero is heroine, but it is entirely accurate to say "Susan B Anthony is a hero of the women's rights movement."

The Anglican Church (one of the forms of Christianity that allows for female priests) still ordains women as priests and deacons.

Both terms are gender neutral, with a feminine specific term attached.

Also, not that it really matters, but Elite BG was at least partially in use in 2014 for shadowmod's viewtopic.php?f=54&t=60270&hilit=elite as they used it to describe the Who/Me hydra action. I'm not actually sure when the first instance of it was though.

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I honestly think it doesn't matter, all things considered. Unless we're actively missing out on new scummers because of this (or the current scummers we have feel offended by the gendered terminology), I don't think it's really necessary.

I think in a number of cases the term we have is just bleh for a reason and deserves to be updated regardless (See the list above).

I agree in that removing gendered terminology isn't important to me, but if it's important to somebody (I'm assuming from the existence of the thread in the first place that either TLich has had people comment or cares personally) then I don't see why we can't make the change before it becomes a bigger problem. I guess to me it's more a question of why not than why.

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That's an unfortunate pagetop. The list is on the previous page.

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I'm just asking this question because I noticed the prevalence of gendered role names and can see why it could be an issue. I didn't see anyone comment personally before this, I wanted to ask the question to see if it is an issue.

Fair. I still stand by “I don’t care but if it’s reasonable that someone does why not?” but I apologize if I was putting the desire for change on your shoulders. And I think it’s reasonable to think that someone does.

I see this as a “worst case scenario: net 0 change” situation.

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Uncooperative or Unaccommodating could be used if it's desired that the term maintain a negative connotation.

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I could get behind Boss being an "investigates as town" modifier and making Alpha Werewolf and Godfather alternative names.

Works from a flavor stance regardless of scumteam.