Happy Face Mafia (Game Over)

[Titus]

VOTE: unwnd

[Titus]

Romance v Bell, I'll weigh in.

VOTE: Romance

[Titus]

the no flavorclaim rule makes me wonder if flavor just confirms people as town, or if there's some kind of hunting situation like dark/light fairy from the last boon game

I thought this too but I can't see any further positive than can come from further speculation and the risk of modkill is too high. So for now, no flavorclaim discussion if you don't mind.

[Titus]

Someone say they feel I am town or scum so we can start to break RVS.

Either that or comment on Romance wagon which is a gun to my head wagon on scum.

[Titus]

titus post is something i'd do as scum but titus ain't me. i don't wanna vote there. i don't really want to vote sam or raya either.

i'm actually pretty happy w/ where my vote is atm. classic dilemma of "want to get real discussion by voting someone active but don't want to vote anyone active"

this is a hydra i expected to start strong and instead has 1 post

Why wouldn't you vote me as that would be a way to break out of RVS? If scum would do it, that's a reason as good as any in RVS.

The hydra I understand not posting but it is the weekend.

[Titus]

because i don't give a shit about RVS or arbitrary breakouts or VCA lmao

immediately told you why my vote was where it is, why it wasn't on you, and don't care if it's the weekend. one head being absent rn is understandable, all three isn't a crime but i am very happy where i am.

You don't care about VCA? We are so going to conflict this game. :/

[Titus]

O.o Not really sure what to make of this post. It makes no sense.

[Titus]

Ok Titus is scum. convince me otherwise.

There is a vote feature.

[Titus]

Ok Titus is scum. convince me otherwise.

There is a vote feature.

who cares about that. convince me you are town.

Not going to towncase myself. I'm going to hunt scum. Deal with it.

[Titus]

Someone say they feel I am town or scum so we can start to break RVS.

Either that or comment on Romance wagon which is a gun to my head wagon on scum.

What's the logic behind this one, Titus?

I want to get reads and reactions going to break from RVS.

[Titus]

Bear, it's expected your hydra will have many posts. That's not an in depth secret, nor is Romance claiming your volume suggests something about your alignment.

I find it odd you're objecting to Romance but you're quiet on Willow.

VOTE: Bear hydra

[Titus]

Someone say they feel I am town or scum so we can start to break RVS.

Either that or comment on Romance wagon which is a gun to my head wagon on scum.

What's the logic behind this one, Titus?

I want to get reads and reactions going to break from RVS.

Momma bear why is Romance scum?

I don't think they are. My vote was RVS.

[Titus]

UNVOTE: Bear hydra

Nevermind. I missed your callout on Willow.

[Titus]

Bam, why are you randomly bolding words?

[Titus]

This game also has a post cap of 200 posts per player per phase (lifted final day) posting over the cap will result in punishment

Guys keep this in mind when you post.

I think the hydra would naturally count as one player. :/ Definitely something to clarify.

[Titus]

VOTE: Dunnstral

[Titus]

This wagon setup reeks of punishing Dunn voters.

[Titus]

@Ircher,

Why do you think my post was fluff? It draws a clear conclusion.

Your comment on 302 is just ick.

[Titus]

You should just

Disregard

Ircher's comments there, Titus. I'm not sure what he was thinking, and I apologise on his behalf for him calling you "Totus". Believe me when I say we're all embarrassed about that.

I don't think your post was fluff, and disagree with his comment on 302. I'll have a stern word with him about it.

-Bam

I have no problem with him calling me Totus. It's kind of a joke that started in Flavor Leaf v Hectic. That was the alt Hectic made just to impersonate me.

[Titus]

Encryptor. Move along.

[Titus]

I think VFP v Willow is T v T (skimmed it) but VFP could be scum by voting pattern (weak reason due to low data).

I'm content letting them both live today and ignoring their back and forth because it is tedious "no you" comments.

[Titus]

don't call it tvt if you're not going to read it, blame it on both of us if you want but that is exactly what I was trying to avoid and drawing a conclusion without reading it is awful

steer clear if you want but jesus

I draw my conclusions based on how players react to each other, rather than individual posts where I can. I have seen this type of posting before and it's usually not S v S, and that would elicit a certain reaction from other slots (no one in particular) I am not seeing.

I don't need to read every post in minute detail to get a jist of the behavior, so I won't.

You and I will have conflict because we process the game in different ways.

That's ok. You'll be useful to me to talk about emotion and tone later to check my reads.

It takes a village to solve the game for a reason.

I'm perfectly willing to discuss your reads on other slots, particularly t3 and Dunn.

On a side note as I go to bed, I want to take back my comment of this game being slow 3 pages ago, I was wrong.

The game still is slow. The volume of your Willow fight is not moving the game forward. Engage elsewhere.

[Titus]

Nice to prod when there isn’t a day start pm.

There was one.

[Titus]

I wish I could join a popular wagon but I am just not feeling them, particularly these two.

[Titus]

I flat out disagree with Bell's case.

[Titus]

*Bear's bell case

[Titus]

Not yet. I'll try to look at it this morning after court.

[Titus]

I wish I could join a popular wagon but I am just not feeling them, particularly these two.

can you elaborate on those feelings? really curious why you're hesitant. trying to figure out how you're approaching this game because this doesn't seem to line up w/ other games i have spectated

There's too much omgus. Anyone who FoSes anyone else gets an automatic scumread back. Nothing feels like it's honest sorting. (Note: Honest means intellectually honest, not town/scum indicative).

I'm looking for someone with a deep, nuanced, possibly accurate read of the game to be my anchor. I haven't found it yet so I'm going through the game again.

I really like a Dunn scumread based on the vote history but I don't feel strong enough to case him.

[Titus]

By play, according to my memory, my biggest scumread is Bam but that read is stale based on Ircher posts.

[Titus]

I'm not interested in the lurkers personally. I'm fine with either Sam/VFP.

no but we're in a theme large

never know if they're about to dayvig lol

Hm very true, although usually you have to explicitly say Dayvig:

Why are you voting for no elim VFP?

Wouldn't it be more fun to vote someone?

Hm well I'm voting bear hugs but they aren't even around to make that fun

Let's vote sam. Sam is around and I'm not so sure their take on enchant is genuine

VOTE: sam

Because town should generally be genuine. It's scum who want to fake a scumread

The turnaround on me and sam including scum to both town was towny of bear hugs

I feel Raya might be scum. I looked through her ISO and there's only one scumread she's pushed. Most of her posts are questions minus one push based on "genuine" feelings in RVS.

Raya's defense of Bell also isn't true sooo

[Titus]

Bell should be the flip. I don't like to address the hippocrates in the room as much as the next guy, but Bell has tonnes of motivation and will to play the game as town, while he really has to force himself to post as scum. Him not having the willpower to dedicate some time to this game is very scum-indicative.

-Bam

While this is true of Bell, his exit post counteracts the lack of effort. Scum!Bell would just exit. Town!Bell left content. Him subbing out alone is not AI as we all have RL sometimes.

[Titus]

By play, according to my memory, my biggest scumread is Bam but that read is stale based on Ircher posts.

Spicy. Tell me more?

Have you actually read the game you were in, or are you working from memory? Because I didn't think the arguments were at all similar.

Does it matter? I spent the entirety of that game on the chopping block, its was pretty intense and me ad VFP were going hell for leather at each other.

Also, Post 10, I think I'm safe lol

I think memory often distorts the nature of things such that we remember events differently than they were in reality. Sometimes you read old posts you've written and wonder who the person writing them was. In my own estimation your arguments with him that game weren't that intense! Even though he scumread you he was responding in a fairly rational manner. You, of course, can disagree by saying you were a part of it and that's not how it went, and I can't really dispute that, but to my eyes the two instances are dissimilar. This ultimately falls down to subjectivity of interpretation.

I don't

really

want to get into this though because I don't feel this is a productive avenue of discussion and am no longer interested in wagoning VFP and would prefer to give him space before passing judgment

I already posted it back then.

@Bam and Retti

- What's your Raya read?

[Titus]

Titus can I answer that too?

Of course.

[Titus]

I don't think so. Scum!Bell could just feel bad doing that to his teammates knowing everyone will read a silent replace out as extremely scum-indicative for him. I think the final post is pretty NAI.

Anything is possible. It's more likely scum!Bell would leave nothing. It's worth noting no one interacted with what he did leave.

[Titus]

VOTE: Raya

[Titus]

VOTE: Bell

If your wrong my vote is not leaving you day 2 bear

Yuck.

[Titus]

Can we wait until Day 2?

I feel really confident Bell is town and Raya and Wheme are spewing Bears town as a response too.

[Titus]

The mod hasn't even advertised the slot it seems.

[Titus]

Ok whatever, I'll do it. But back to sam D2 if we go with bell today. At least with this flip I can decide if I should be trusting the bears or not

VOTE: bell

This spews Bears as wrong town btw

[Titus]

Anyone not seeing that this is staged Bell then Noraa flips is out of their minds imo.

[Titus]

Anyone not seeing that this is staged Bell then Noraa flips is out of their minds imo.

Wait what do you mean by this?

Flip Bell.
Bell flips town.
Flip Noraa.
Noraa flips wrong town.

[Titus]

VLA this weekend

[Titus]

if robertbell is town, who is mafia?

I still think Raya is scum regardless.

I know RMH's posting hasn't been good and Retti is almost certainly town.

I really hope I am right on RMH though. It looks less likely to be the case with the self vote.

It really doesn't matter FMPOV if RMH is town, he's still the better play with Retti being obvtown. RMH's death, if town, confirms multiball which creates an interesting dynamic. It also weakens RMH's value. If RMH flips cop, it's unfortunate but still the optimal play as Retti is town. Scum Retti holds his gladiate I think unless his gladiate gates a stronger scum power.

[Titus]

I need to take a look at both ways in a bit. Breakfast first though.

[Titus]

Maybe I’m wrong on you then? Raya could be scum? But I really think the right flip today happened. I really do think he’s flipping scum here.

There's four possibilities and I'll rank them.

1) Retti is town, RMH is scum. The self-vote makes it likely I am wrong. Raya is NAI but still scum by play. The gladiate cuts off the wagon formation.

2) Retti is town, RMH is town. Multiball, likely Raya scum.

3) Retti scum, RMH town/opposing scum. Retti gladiate unlocks a power for him.

4) All three are scum of the same faction. Retti saves Raya.

[Titus]

I still think we are in 1 though given RMH's sub in.

[Titus]

Well there is a 5) Retti scum saves Raya scum and RMH is scum of opposing faction.

[Titus]

VC 1.5

Bell (5): Esooa, Enchant, PenguinPower, Bear HUGS, Raya36
Raya36 (4): jjh927, Titus, Retti, Bamboozle
samantha97 (3): VFP, Romance, willow1
Romance (2): Bell, WhemeStar
Retti (1): Flea The Magician,
Titus (1): T3
Enchant (1): Dunnstral

Not Voting (1): samantha97

Deadline is in (expired on 2021-04-27 00:50:57)

With 18 players alive, it takes 10 to fade away

Let's look at Raya's wagon. Retti is likely town and we're assuming he's town for purposes of this exercise. JJH encouraged the Raya vote based on the case I made. I don't think he spends his little capital doing that if he knows Bell/RMH is scum unless Raya also is. So we can rule out jjh scum, raya town.

That means if scum were trying to save Bell by sheeping my wrong case, it would have to be Bamboozle. If my Raya case is right, the Raya wagon is all town.

Tldr: One of Raya/Bam should flip scum.

I'm also assuming singleball.

[Titus]

titus I think you missed the part where robert said seer was a joke claim

Oh. Ok. Then some of my possibilities are wrong. The self vote doesn't look good still. Maybe RMH town just accepted his fate. I'd expect more hunting to come, even if demotivated though.

[Titus]

Hold up, no one hammer yet. I had hinted at this earlier but now is a good time to out this:

I am a gladiator and there is a benefit to me using my ability.

There are two caveats to this: I have to use it twice, and it has to be before 7 days have passed in each day phase that I use it. If I meet those conditions, something good happens but I am going to be as vague as possible otherwise to avoid giving away too much information. I very nearly rage-dueled Esooa in the midst of our argument but I'm glad I calmed down and decided against it. This is why I asked if people were okay with voting out Bell, because if so I can just safely piledrive him with no worries. This wouldn't change anything about the day but I really want to use my ability here.

Just use it on

Bell

-Bam

Why is Bam, who is voting Raya, encouraging a gladiate on Bell?

[Titus]

T3 likely scum sheeping Willow. Regardless, I expect one scum in Willow/T3. I don't think Willow is taking advantage of the fact I said our playstyles would crash.

[Titus]

Alright, now that all of town's good roles have died incidentally, let's look back at what happened yesterday.

Where the fuck is this from?

VOTE: Dunn

[Titus]

I'm cooling off on Raya because Romance was killed. If Romance was killed by scum, it would set me up to tunnel Raya. If a town source claims to kill Raya later, I'd go back. (Note: No one should claim if they did.)

[Titus]

did you expect scumwillow to shove you for your love of vca or something

Yes. Scum Willow would do that. Scum willow would push me knowing our playstyles crash. I don't see that as your rationale for pushing me. Your push is melodramatic and overblown though.

Sure I was wrong on Bell/RMH. Sure I should be investigated because I was wrong.

Your responses to me are out of line proporionally though.

It's quite obvious that Bell was bussed particularly after that gladiate claim. No one thought Bell was living through that. It effectively shut down counter wagons though.

Overall, I think you're town but I'd feel more reassured if you hunted some other slots as well (even if voting me). I'm an easy place to sit at the moment. Scum!you is capable of just making noise about me alone and then just going whoops.

[Titus]

You think I'd have killed Romance as scum?

It's possible yes, especially given how discredited I am. I'm not sure if that's likely though.

Barring jjh, the wagon on you must be pure though fmpov.

[Titus]

@Willow, I just lost team mafia due to a similar tunnel where town ignored evidence on scum because they wanted me so bad. So I'm a little jaded on that, but it's part of why you could be town.

[Titus]

Rule of 3 suggests at least one scum but Bell plays with me enough to circumvent that. I am still believing there's a scum in the list though.

[Titus]

i am arguing that you fundamentally do not do things like hold off voting wagons while not having a solid footing of the game to work with, and that you would instead have been happy to throw your vote around readily just to see what happens

you were not trying to read into the bell wagon as it was developing and there's little to no evidence you're using the flip at all even now

I created a counterwagon to Bell because a) I felt it was wrong, b) I felt Raya was right and c) it does generate a counterwagon. I was reading into wagons as they occured, particularly the Dunn wagon. I moved my vote around a fair amount given my activity level at the time. Your argument that I didn't analyze wagons just isn't true.

I am using the flips to determine my reads, but I am not ignoring dayplay. Dunn's entry here combined with wagons punishing his detractors yesterday makes him a good place to start and gives Raya a chance to prove me wrong.

[Titus]

in fact that entire opening post screamed town dunn w/ him trying to utilize the reactions to the flip out of the gate over waiting to see what is vulnerable and what isn't

What about claiming all town power is dead fits into this?

[Titus]

claiming all town power is dead could be a way to rolefish

or to roleclaim vanilla essentially

or there could be no ulterior motive

It could come from an informed perspective. I can't see how it can't.

We had one PR flip and one claim. Unless Dunn was factoring in his own team's power, there's no way to be certain on that.

FMPOV, but for Dunn's slip, we still could have a lot of power.

[Titus]

Robert and Titus felt VERY buddyish.

T3 and Andante and Dunn.

Calling it now.

[Titus]

Andantes only townread swere titus and the dead romance.

And you mention him out of nowhere when jjh has done just as little.

You're either partners with him or seeking to undermine townreads on me to protect Dunn.

[Titus]

@Nancy, You could try engaging my Dunn read. Saying Dunn is town solely because I am pushing him is very demotivating.

[Titus]

i am arguing that you fundamentally do not do things like hold off voting wagons while not having a solid footing of the game to work with, and that you would instead have been happy to throw your vote around readily just to see what happens

you were not trying to read into the bell wagon as it was developing and there's little to no evidence you're using the flip at all even now

I created a counterwagon to Bell because a) I felt it was wrong, b) I felt Raya was right and c) it does generate a counterwagon. I was reading into wagons as they occured, particularly the Dunn wagon. I moved my vote around a fair amount given my activity level at the time. Your argument that I didn't analyze wagons just isn't true.

I am using the flips to determine my reads, but I am not ignoring dayplay. Dunn's entry here combined with wagons punishing his detractors yesterday makes him a good place to start and gives Raya a chance to prove me wrong.

Wtf do you mean with this? Dunn was a bad vote and considering Bell did in fact flip scum, whatever argument you keep pushing with this makes absolutely no sense.

Bell flipped scum with a consensus wagon. There is nothing more to do with Bell's wagon beyond what I have done.

And there’s this:

I'm cooling off on Raya because Romance was killed. If Romance was killed by scum, it would set me up to tunnel Raya.

If a town source claims to kill Raya later, I'd go back

. (Note: No one should claim if they did.)

Why would it make Raya scum if Romance was the scum kill?

And seriously dafuq to the bolded?

Your post makes no sense. You’d what re-evaluate on Raya after she’s flipped?

I'm saying if scum killed Romance, it protects Raya. If town killed Romance, my theory on scum being in Raya/Romance might be wrong, setting up the very chain I feared with you/Bell.

i just woke up and skimmed but i'm still down to piledrive titus

probably going to hold off until i actually read the game again but her reactions to votes day 1 was so fucking bad even w/o the robert flip

I don’t feel quite as confident on Titus as Bell but it’s definitely up there. #1131 is the most pinging post yet from her.

I think Dunn, Titus is TvS.

Titus keeps making this ridiculous argument that scum was punishing Dunn voters, which actually wouldn’t be terrible if Bell had actually flipped town but he didn’t

Bell's flip is irrelevant towards that assertion as he wasn't wagoned yet at the appropriate VC.

and it seems that Titus is completely ignoring this and I would think she would be casing Robert/Bell to get scum associatives or doing a VCA on positioning on Bell wagon than continue to weirdly keep focusing on Dunn.

Why would scum be trying to protect Dunn when Bell was being pushed anyway?

Noraa thinks #1131 sounds tmi and the perspective on Raya isn’t sitting well with me.

VC 1.5

Bell (5): Esooa, Enchant, PenguinPower, Bear HUGS, Raya36
Raya36 (4): jjh927, Titus, Retti, Bamboozle
samantha97 (3): VFP, Romance, willow1
Romance (2): Bell, WhemeStar
Retti (1): Flea The Magician,
Titus (1): T3
Enchant (1): Dunnstral

Not Voting (1): samantha97

Deadline is in (expired on 2021-04-27 00:50:57)

With 18 players alive, it takes 10 to fade away

Let's look at Raya's wagon. Retti is likely town and we're assuming he's town for purposes of this exercise. JJH encouraged the Raya vote based on the case I made. I don't think he spends his little capital doing that if he knows Bell/RMH is scum unless Raya also is. So we can rule out jjh scum, raya town.

That means if scum were trying to save Bell by sheeping my wrong case, it would have to be Bamboozle. If my Raya case is right, the Raya wagon is all town.

Tldr: One of Raya/Bam should flip scum.

I'm also assuming singleball.

this is the main wagon analysis you do, on the Raya wagon you started, where one of bam/raya will flip scum.

you've backed off of raya citing the romance kill changing your view.

i don't see any attempt to analyze the bell wagon, either before or after the gladiate, and dunn making a snarky remark on two town prs dying is aimless commentary and not scum indicative

Robert and Titus felt VERY buddyish.

T3 and Andante and Dunn.

Calling it now.

I said this too. And now it sounds like you’re almost panicking. Why?

Because I am consensus miselimination and right. This will wreck the game because town will FoS each other and blame me rather than listen to me or engage me.

@Nancy, You could try engaging my Dunn read. Saying Dunn is town solely because I am pushing him is very demotivating.

I’m not saying that BECAUSE you’re pushing but because HOW you’re doing it and the TM game you referenced you were the game losing miselim in that. I don’t even see how the two situations are even similar here. It sounds like an over reaction.

Like if we got flipped, it would be a mistake obviously but the game wouldn’t be lost because of it.

Basically your Dunn push is bad unless you’re expressly accusing him of being an informed scum like Fire was in Under the Sea, because I read that as nai.

You outright dismissed Pooky’s Bell case but as soon as Robert was hammered you did a complete 180 on the slot and it didn’t feel organic to me.

Alright, tell me why I should be tr you here, let’s start with that because rn, you’re my #1 sr.

I already said this. I don't towncase myself. I hunt scum.

[Titus]

I get miseliminated every game and every game town loses.

If I survive the elimination push, town wins.

It's that simple.

[Titus]

can you be more explicit in why you are right this game on dunn and everyone else is wrong for reasons other than the dead prs comment.

if that's literally it then ok but 1154 is wildly delusional and i mean that even if dunnstral is scum.

I have.
1)The wagons
2) The slip
3) He's not trying.

[Titus]

...titus,idk if this changes anything, but did you miss that romance flipped with a cop mask?

He flipped Vanilla Townie. I don't see how his mask is relevant as there hasn't been an opportunity to put them on.

[Titus]

This wagon setup reeks of punishing Dunn voters.

VOTE: Dunnstral

I guess we just need a few more votes on Titus now.

VC 1.0

Enchant (3): Dunnstral, Bamboozle, WhemeStar
Dunnstral (3): samantha97, Enchant, Titus
samantha97 (3): Raya36, VFP, T3
VFP (2): Retti, Romance
Raya36(1): jjh927
Romance (1): Bell
Bamboozle(1): Flea The Magician
Bear HUGS(1): willow1

Not Voting (3): PenguinPower, Bear HUGS, Hubble Bubble,

Deadline is in (expired on 2021-04-27 00:50:57)

With 18 players alive, it takes 10 to fade away

The Dunn votes are terrible I'm not going to read too much into pit.

[Titus]

@mod: v/la until thursday. traveling and the internet is spotty.

I hope you can play soon. It's hard to read your slot. :/

[Titus]

VC 1.3

VFP (6): Retti, Romance, Bear HUGS, samantha97, Enchant, willow1
Enchant (3): Dunnstral, Bamboozle, WhemeStar
samantha97 (3): Raya36, VFP, T3
Dunnstral (1): Titus
Raya36(1): jjh927
Romance (1): Bell
Bamboozle(1): Flea The Magician

Not Voting (2): PenguinPower, Hubble Bubble,

Deadline is in (expired on 2021-04-27 00:50:57)

With 18 players alive, it takes 10 to fade away

VC 1.4

VFP (6): Retti, Romance, Bear HUGS, samantha97, Enchant, willow1
samantha97 (2): Raya36, VFP,
Enchant (2): Dunnstral, PenguinPower
Bamboozle(2): Flea The Magician, WhemeStar
Bell (2): Esooa, Bamboozle
Dunnstral (1): Titus
Raya36 (1): jjh927
Romance (1): Bell
WhemeStar (1): T3


Not Voting (0):

Deadline is in (expired on 2021-04-27 00:50:57)

With 18 players alive, it takes 10 to fade away

VC 1.5

Bell (5): Esooa, Bamboozle, Enchant, PenguinPower, Bear HUGS
samantha97 (3): Raya36, VFP, Romance
Dunnstral (2): Titus, T3
Bamboozle(2): Flea The Magician, WhemeStar
Enchant (1): Dunnstral
FP (1): willow1
Raya36 (1): jjh927
Romance (1): Bell
PenguinPower (1): samantha97

Not Voting (1): Retti

Deadline is in (expired on 2021-04-27 00:50:57)

With 18 players alive, it takes 10 to fade away

VC 1.5

Bell (5): Esooa, Enchant, PenguinPower, Bear HUGS, Raya36
Raya36 (4): jjh927, Titus, Retti, Bamboozle
samantha97 (3): VFP, Romance, willow1
Romance (2): Bell, WhemeStar
Retti (1): Flea The Magician,
Titus (1): T3
Enchant (1): Dunnstral

Not Voting (1): samantha97

Deadline is in (expired on 2021-04-27 00:50:57)

With 18 players alive, it takes 10 to fade away

Given Retti and Bamboozle are town, scum were not trying to save Raya but merely gave up here. They went from not caring who was eliminated to resignation.

This points to PP scum as I TR everyone else on the Bell wagon.

PP Dunn T3 is my new answer.

[Titus]

With an outside shot of Raya.

[Titus]

if anything the votes point to vfp being mafia if penguin were mafia

immediately before the bell votes vfp was at 6

So you're suggesting scum bussed Bell over VFP. It's a valid theory but I disagree.

I townread all the names on the VFP wagon. That's a sign you're correct. Yet no scumreads jumped on the wagon. I would expect some scum to jump on a scum wagon. If we do postulate VFP scum, then he must be either a higher PR role or more likely to go deep. This is where tin foil Retti scum goes.

Given the wagon participation rate (most sitting alone), I would feel that they generally ignored wagons on town and rushed to get on scum wagons. This is why PP's empty ISO is key. He was around but chose to vote Bell and not VFP. The VFP wagon was meant to hang around like DGB and LLD wagons did in the large normal.

Tldr, I think your read is townie but incorrect with a possibility that I am wrong.

Can we just vote where we agree though?

VOTE: PP

[Titus]

So by the logic of these 2 posts would it be reasonable to say that the team could be VFP/PP/Bell? PP was never voting VFP and instead enchant. When VFP wagon dismantled PP went to Bell who had too much traction to bother trying to save.

Different people talking. Also, given the size, I expect 3 scum alive, not 2.

[Titus]

No, I know, I was just combining both of your thoughts while reading through. And good point on the scum size, but do you think

those 2

could reasonably be with bell for the reason I said?

Can you confirm that you meant VFP + PP?

[Titus]

Yes, that could be correct but it is not my favored theory.

[Titus]

Titus is basically using the "I am vital to town winning when I'm town" defense and I don't like it. Titus then goes for LHF slots that no one really cares about that haven't done anything.

Who do you think is scum in the active slots? Your post is very hypocritical about going for LHF when you're coming after me and no one else.

What are your townreads?

All you do is make a pop in, shade me, and leave.

[Titus]

Do you guys think the top 2 wagons day 1 are both scum?

I also dont think titus is scum here

I'm pretty sure T3 is scum and his partners are ineffective players.

PP Dunn T3 is my solve.

[Titus]

@Adante, I'll respond to your wall in detail but I'll comment on two reasons why I townread Bell.

First, the meta used to eliminate him is inaccurate. I just finished two games with an active scum Bell. Team Large Normal and another game that the name eludes me.

Second, there was chaining of eliminations if Bell flipped town. That scared me.

Third, there were other players with more vapid ISOs.

[Titus]

Do you guys think the top 2 wagons day 1 are both scum?

I also dont think titus is scum here

I'm pretty sure T3 is scum and his partners are ineffective players.

PP Dunn T3 is my solve.

I was told town PP is inactive and scum PP tries to lead the game

Hearsay meta.

I object!

[Titus]

Raya is. I think it was all town on the Raya wagon, so scum could have tried to move pressure away from the Bell wagon and they didn't

Counterpoint, as much as Raya is my backup.

They may not have had time to do so given the gladiate.

[Titus]

The other Bell game was Among Us.

[Titus]

Oh and I also did highlight the meta was wrong. I argued it and tried to get a counterwagon to Bell.

[Titus]

Titus,

the meta issue isn't whether Bell-scum can be active. Bell-scum can certainly play an active opening if properly motivated and with sufficient free time.

It's that I've never see Bell-town be that soft on entry - it doesn't take Bell-town energy to look townie so he always looks really townie when he's actually town.

You're denying it's activity while outright stating he was soft, which is another word for activity.

We got lucky. Why we did is a whole other question?

[Titus]

@Bear,

Talk to me about T3, Dunn, PP and Raya.

I'd like to vote somewhere I feel is likely scum.

[Titus]

@Bear, I asked you to talk about my scumreads. How am I supposed to eliminate scum when people won't talk about my reads?

Second, I don't feel jjh starts the Raya wagon when Bell is DoA.

Third, This isn't Samantha scum by meta. Compare the last two Booneytunes games.

[Titus]

Do you have a reason for T3 scum that is not related to him voting you?

His unreasoned defense of lurky players, his utter lack of scumhunting (no discussion of anyone but me) and his chainsaw on behalf of Dunn.

[Titus]

TBH i think my defense of lury players is more gut playstyle than anything else.

It almost feels like Titus is trying to essentially fill scumslots.

samanthahas gotten much more town.

Who is scum aside from me?

You're playing to avoid upsetting anyone.

[Titus]

i think people are giving esooa way too much credit for that B
bell vote+comment about milquetoast observation but maybe I missed a bigger wall in my skim. still a townlean.

I'd go titus/vfp/andante with the disclosure that i haven't read andante's posting today

Why are you willing to vote Adante without reading his posts while giving me crap for skimming VFP's T v T fight?

[Titus]

don't call it tvt if you're not going to read it, blame it on both of us if you want but that is exactly what I was trying to avoid and

drawing a conclusion without reading it is awful

steer clear if you want but jesus

Yet you drew a conclusion on Adante.

[Titus]

VOTE: T3

[Titus]

@Retti, That's probably because all the active players are town and you don't want to eliminate a lurker.

[Titus]

VOTE: Dunn

[Titus]

VOTE: Dunn

And LOOK how quickly this flips.

You act as if I haven't suspected Dunn all along. I'm transparently voting whichever of my suspects has the largest wagon.

[Titus]

I got prodded. I'll catch up this afternoon. Lots of work drama, personal drama and illness.

[Titus]

19 hours is the deadline for Retti to use their ability. They also need to get claims and process them in that time, plus their own availability could cut that time shorter

Why are you supposing Retti has more than one shot of their ability?

[Titus]

*checks ISO*

They did. Ok.

[Titus]

VT no mask

[Titus]

VC 2.3

Dunnstral (6) - Flea The Magician, WhemeStar, samantha97, Andante, Raya36, Titus
jjh927 (2) - Esooa, Dunnstral
Titus (2) - T3 willow1
Raya36 (1) - VFP


Not Voting: (4) , PenguinPower, jjh927, Retti, Bear HUGS

Deadline is in (expired on 2021-05-07 05:05:29)

With 15 players alive, it takes 8 to fade away

Here is what the votecount looked like when they all stopped posting, which I believe further supports that some of them are dodging the thread here; sort of taking it easy.

I really don't like this line of attack on a personal level.

I warned people my activity would be different and Dunn suggests I am dodging the thread.

[Titus]

Dunn probably isn't town. He's been deflecting rather than sorting and that's only after being wagoned.

Dunn T3 PPP Raya.

[Titus]

Flea is town.

My last reads remain the same.

Dunn T3 PP
Raya
Willow


Everyone Else

[Titus]

Retti, Dunn's posts today have all been deflections, not genuine hunting. You hero shotted Dunn town. No one you scumread was voting Dunn. A lot of people told you I was town. You never interacted with me on your SR of me.

I get I die here but please learn from it.

[Titus]

Idk how available I'll be tomorrow so here are (mostly) off the cuff reads if I don't get to post again

Town
bear hugs, willow1, raya36
Town lean
esooa, dunnstral, samantha97, flea the magician
Null
andante, T3, VFP
Scum
whemestar, jjh927, penguinpower(?)


For the Raya read I just think I understand her mindset better after seeing her post more, can't really explain it that well right now.

I buy Esooa's early callout of Bell making her town, don't think she calls out a teammate who is being mostly ignored prior to that.

Flea and andante both drop a level if Titus is scum, if town they look all right.

I just don't think the wagon/reasoning for scumreading Dunn was good, the way it built up was sketchy and I think his posts today have been good.

I looked at jjh again and in the moment his stuff seemed okay but it feels like he's doing the minimum and other people are townier

For whatever points made about penguinpower's bell vote I have a hard time seeing him only making 7 posts and seeming so completely disinterested as town (and I hated how wheme tried to meta defend him earlier in the game using secondhand info that as far as I can tell isn't accurate)

Penguin scum meta is ACTIVE lurking, game contentless posting and/or spamming. The v/la claim makes it nai but the bell vote just looked anti associative, so I don’t know.

The Bell vote came from nowhere as the wagon was forming. Clear bus.

[Titus]

I don't really give a fuck about Penguins Bell vote. Slankers VERY COMMONLY bus, and that's because a mafia slanker doesn't have many ways to get town read besides going after their partners, and as a low poster they're naturally going to be PoE'd so I find they try to distance and such a lot

And I've seen litearlly nothing towny from that slot in any way at all besides the vote so yeah. If there's a vigi just instantly kill that slot tbh

+1

[Titus]

Should we just flip me and then PM roles to Blade Dancer (my mod account) if the Mod doesn't show?

[Titus]

I'm literally TRing everyone but my 5 possible scumslots Bear.

They aren't nulls.

[Titus]

Bullshit. Dunn's reads only came after he was wagoned and his only reads are deflections onto other popular targets except for his partners.

[Titus]

Random off topic note: I am debating hosting a meet in Sacramento this September. Please check out general discussion for more. Everyone would be invited.

[Titus]

What do we do if I live later in the game and there's still suspicion on me?

Pedit: Anti-town doesn't mean scum. We lose VC wagons for two days with only Retti's assurance that something good happens. Retti could be wrong. We don't know because Retti hasn't disclosed but they may have a good reason for not doing so.

[Titus]

Why?

[Titus]

I'd like to say this surprised me but it doesn't. Two scum suspects naked vote me and don't engage with the recent content.

This tells me they feel they can get the votes or they feel no risk from obvscuming.

[Titus]

it'd be cool if any other maskless vanilla would raise their hair

Why are you asking this? Even if there was another maskless vanilla, then it's either scum or just narrows down the places for scum to shoot?

[Titus]

because we don't know if they even exist

Why is it important to know that now? That's my question.

[Titus]

Why does my claim necessitate getting other claims?

[Titus]

So you don't believe my claim but you think there are multiple vts without masks?

[Titus]

Why does nobody care that whemestar isn't doing anything, but everybody cares about penguin?

This is a perfect example of a deflection away from PP. There's nothing here but a blank, and false, conclusion while it's objectively true PP is not here and doing anything.

[Titus]

Can you point to something that happened before you said I was deflecting?

Literally your entire ISO after you hit 6 votes. Your first move wasn't to scum hunt but to try and deflect onto me by asking why I was town. You don't give your own opinions. You just highlight certain slots need attention while leaving out T3 and PP.

[Titus]

@Mod: Can we get a prod or sub on PP?

[Titus]

This is part of the problem with Willow to where I can't townbin him. He says my reaction was townie when that was the consensus but now that a few votes come in he's "leaning towards elimming still".

[Titus]

I can't find the post I was remembering otherwise I'd quote it, so there's a slim chance my memory failed.

[Titus]

If scum was intending to try to push your elim through what was the benefit to call you towny?

Thought the window had passed

[Titus]

VOTE: no fade

I'll likely be afk until deadline.

[Titus]

VOTE: Professor

Hi.

[Titus]

curious why maf didn't take out either of the two stronger UTRs though

Probably because I shit the bed yesterday

Did you get the bonus?

[Titus]

@Retti, I don't think we'll get that unity again. Scum know they give you a boon if they hard bus, so why would they? It's a bit wifomy but still likely.

[Titus]

We should be wagoning Professor imo. I want content from them.

[Titus]

again. WHY WOULD TOWN WAIT TO OUT A GUILTY

If I had one, I'd still be sitting on it. Looking to see reactions.

[Titus]

At least we got our duel.

[Titus]

We should hold off voting until the duel.

[Titus]

Adante, your reads?

[Titus]

UNVOTE: Professor

Let's not end before Professor plays.

[Titus]

I would like to hear your reads Adante. Relying on your role claim is not convincing.

[Titus]

I would like to hear your reads Adante. Relying on your role claim is not convincing.

no one cares about my reads. you all want me dead, so why try?

Because it's the last chance to set town right. There's no point in giving up prior to being hammered. Giving up looks like you're scum avoiding associations.

[Titus]

Why Raya?

Flea we have a clear on sooo

[Titus]

actually, what am I thinking, I don't need to wait on the mod to answer, I can just post this and see if it still works

duel: Andante

I think Andante is the real doctor.
I’d Andante is Town there is a high likelihood of Retti being scum.

Why would you think this?

[Titus]

Why Raya?

Flea we have a clear on sooo

Interaction doesn’t come from someone aligned with them.

actually, what am I thinking, I don't need to wait on the mod to answer, I can just post this and see if it still works

duel: Andante

I think Andante is the real doctor.
I’d Andante is Town there is a high likelihood of Retti being scum.

Why would you think this?

Because of the way Retti is treating the current thread and how they are approaching Andante.

I'd like to know why you feel this way, rather than just conclusions.

What about Raya's interactions makes her not scum?

Why does Retti's treatment indicate Adante town when Adante won't give reads?

[Titus]

Maria would have to let t3 know his sanity was in question.

We just need her to show.

[Titus]

We need Maria to see if his gladiate went through.

[Titus]

This might explain why I thought t3 was scum. His reads lacked thought and felt informed, but he was hiding his cop status.

[Titus]

Why no reads then?

[Titus]

So, what's Retti's good thing?

[Titus]

Welp, I am eating crow on my Dunn read.

VOTE: jjh

[Titus]

I don't see why it's protown to eliminate you.

[Titus]

That doesn't explain why it would be better to eliminate you.

[Titus]

I have a town saying jjjh is guilty but eliminate them instead and the guilty self voting. Why would I ever vote the cop?

[Titus]

One is mod confirmed the other is opinion

[Titus]

well not exactly mod confirmed in the sense that you do have to have a level of trust since I am only claiming it instead of maria directly

anyway w/e I do gain unlimited vig shots (initially 1-shot, mask an extra shot) and lose control over them... and they have a 100% chance to hit town

bring on the governor I guess lol

So basically every night you live we lose another town?

[Titus]

Here's the thing though: we could leave you alive for a day and hope you hit town that's in the POE? It's a roll of the dice but there's a chance you shoot someone we were going to vote anyway

There's no guarantee of that.

From my perspective it makes a little sense to vote jjh as it becomes a 1 for 1 trade and it could be in the PoE pool.

Yet, none of you have a modconfirmed inno on me so it becomes a .5 for 1 trade, which isn't good. It could go 1 for 1 or 3 (town) for 1 (scum).

[Titus]

Actually my math is wrong 4 town.

Elim me
Sam shoots town
Elim jjh
Sam shoots town

Let's just verify what Sam said

[Titus]

*forgot the scum kills which may or may not overlap

[Titus]

Let's just verify what Sam said

does verifying mean vote me

It means you confirming we understand you right and then voting you if we do

[Titus]

VOTE: samantha97

[Titus]

UNVOTE: samantha97

[Titus]

Can someone check Willow for my peace of mind?

[Titus]

confirming we understand you right

I killed romance + wheme
there's 1-2 mafia in titus/jjh
I will kill town every night I am alive

@T3

[Titus]

Why not now?

[Titus]

I think today would be a good time for a mass claim. I propose the following order:

jjh927
ProfessorDrapion
Titus
Raya36
VFP (reconfirm)
Bear Hugs
Willow1

VT.
If the mafia goon as actual town Doctor I was gonna fake some PR and pretend to have used it on Retti.

I already claimed VT

[Titus]

Jjh just wants the extra kill.

[Titus]

I am feeling a little off on this situation. Something's not sitting right.

[Titus]

If I knew that I'd say it.

[Titus]

Jjh, final reads?

[Titus]

Titus set out her notes along the table, looking to solve the game. They were an incomprehensible mess to anyone else. Before she could organize her thoughts, she collapsed onto the floor. Blood ran all over her notes.

[This is a Bah! post]