Open 809: Charge Me Up! [Over]

[NDMath]

I never know how to start

This is relatable

VOTE: VFP
bandwagon

[NDMath]

i'm not the only one who has no clue what flow trap is trying to say, right?

I need my interpreter

Do you want me to change my vote so that everyone has been voted 0-1 times?
(That is the only interpretation making sense to me)


I have a townlean on Lukewarm since I think the initiative to look for the best mechanical play is a town thought.

[NDMath]

94
I found this post townie, unlike the other players who have given thoughts on it.
Lukewarm is in a mindset of looking for what is protown behavior vs not. Specifically the more passive tone is what makes it read as actual thoughts versus scum trying to display a 'town mindset' to me.

VOTE: yes

I forgot this was a player and was very confused for a minute.

[NDMath]

numerous people not understanding flowtrap's joke is kinda sad

94
I found this post townie, unlike the other players who have given thoughts on it.
Lukewarm is in a mindset of looking for what is protown behavior vs not. Specifically the more passive tone is what makes it read as actual thoughts versus scum trying to display a 'town mindset' to me.

VOTE: yes

I forgot this was a player and was very confused for a minute.

ok yall gonna think im fucking crazy for this take but its def a proper vibe.

NDmath cannot be partners with Lukewarm - i can explain later if needed.

I won't protest lol

SK is complete speculation btw but it is 14p...

Very confused how you got this far without seeing the alignment ratios. I question if that's a mistake town can make.

[NDMath]

how can we doing set up spec already?
aaaaaaaagh

It's just the alignment ratios, I don't get your complaint?

Yessiree is on the town list. Not quite on the VFP block but damn close.

@Raya

can you prod the solo names for MiniVirgo?

If this slot doesn't start producing after that, they're going into the scum pile.

You scumread them for... not posting?

[NDMath]

flow trap and VFP are my biggest townreads

Can you elaborate on the reasoning behind these?

You scumread them for... not posting?

Yes. If they avoid the game after a prod, it's for a reason. You seem worried here?

Jackson explained the most of it. Reads based off activity are generally lazy, and specifically so on a slot that hasn't posted at all (where that reason is very very likely to not be game related.)

VFP agreeing with flow trap's claim

I don't understand, why wouldn't I agree with it?

Lukewarm is still referring to flowtrap saying that flowtrap is town, the concern being that that is something both town and mafia would say, and you haven't justified what about this specific instance makes it different.

I hardclaim pr -

I also hard claim a power role

Me three.

[NDMath]

Lukewarm is still referring to flowtrap saying that flowtrap is town, the concern being that that is something both town and mafia would say, and you haven't justified what about this specific instance makes it different.

Nah, ask DK

@DkKoba, Help I'm confused.

Lukewarm
ND

Lukewarm red flip adds Green to VFP block.
Lukewarm Green flip adds Green to scum

VOTE: Lukewarm

I'm ready to end the day.

You seem to be more confident on me being scum than lukewarm, why are you voting lukewarm over me when there's still plenty of time in the day?
Why do you scumread me; that was never explained?
Why are you in a rush to end day before some players (mozamis, the mini head) have even engaged with the thread?

[NDMath]

@VFP

Lukewarm
ND

Lukewarm red flip adds Green to VFP block.
Lukewarm Green flip adds Green to scum

VOTE: Lukewarm

I'm ready to end the day.

You seem to be more confident on me being scum than lukewarm, why are you voting lukewarm over me when there's still plenty of time in the day?
Why do you scumread me; that was never explained?
Why are you in a rush to end day before some players (mozamis, the mini head) have even engaged with the thread?

[NDMath]

Where did you get the impression that I'm more confident in you scum to Lukewarm?
My comment is that Green and Lukewarm are not scum together.

You were down to five non-townreads. Exactly one scum in a set of two implies two in the set of three, which is how I got the impression.

I think you are most likely scum because your play.
I'm also happy to end the day because we win with my block. If players wish to drag the day out, I won't object.

Why am I wrong on you?

"your play" is so vague a reason I cannot even attempt to understand where you're coming from. I can't explain why you're wrong on me without your thought process, merely that you are wrong because you ended up at the wrong destination.

If you're asking me to towncase myself (I don't think you are since that doesn't really make sense given it's day 1.): So far I've posted at a higher posting rate than usual for me as either alignment, and Scum!me probably(?) doesn't doubledown on a lukewarm townread when thread momentum is shifting the other way.

[NDMath]

Like, he seems really defensive, and wants to try really hard to defend himself, and appears to be adjitated that he isn't getting better reasoning from VFP so he can form a better defense. Seems fishy to me

Being scumread for no apparent reason is inherently agitating? The other reason is I was trying to get more reasoning out of VFP is so I can form a better read on them.

So far I've posted at a higher posting rate than usual for me as either alignment,

And here, he is fishing for a defensive argument, despite any of the suspicion logic coming from VFP.

And who is even thinking about their posting rate this early on Day 1 anyways? Maybe scum who has been actively trying to post more in order to avoid suspicion, so they have been thinking about their posting rate since before the thread even opened up.

Near the end of the last game I played a higher posting rate was used to argue another player was town (By Bell on Nono), so it's still fresh in my mind.

so now that we have progressed a little - how do people feel about no limming so PRs can do their thing and investigatives can potentially give us some juicy info?

Getting rid of one person isn't gonna affect investigative's ability much at all compared to the cost of no elimming.

I have a townlean on Lukewarm since I think the initiative to look for the best mechanical play is a town thought.

when did they do this?

Spoiler:

Day 1 begins. It will end in (expired on 2021-04-24 19:00:00). With 14 alive it takes 8 to eliminate.

***It is strictly forbidden to discuss N0 submissions. You may not discuss the role you chose or the player you chose to charge up***

Oh. I completely missed this rule, definitely have been thinking about how the N0 vote information could be used lol

I point ready to make as soon as Day1 started, but now I need to clear my comment with the mod before I post it

Anyways, RVS VOTE: DkKoba

Furthermore, I am really glad that I choose VFP for the person when I chose someone to day I was going to blindly follow, because it appears to be the first thing to make them post a well reasoned post lol.

{Trimmed}

An actual post, with reasonings that can be analyze, huzzah

Is your point here that it's concerning how much it took for vfp to share reasonings or am I completely misunderstanding you?

[NDMath]

UNVOTE:

Being scumread for no apparent reason is inherently agitating?

Maybe if it was not Day 1, when more reads have very little to go on anyways. And maybe if VFP's scum read on you was getting you close to being voted out.

It rubbed me the wrong way because it is Day 1, and you have zero votes on you, like VFP isn't even voting for you, but you still seem defensive.

I agree I have been defensive, my argument is that I have good reason to be.


I scumread Flea's input (in 330 and 389) on the DMG v Green argument.
Faer responses are unnatural/don't really match the conversation.
Also I'm kinda confused by flea taking the minority opinion but not at all explaining why they think that way.

[NDMath]

lets flip within flow/mini

Can you elaborate on why flow?


I still scumread VFP's lack of cooperation with others, but I do think Jackson's recent posting has been much worse and don't really see that slot putting half their posts towards asking for vfp's reads if they are S/S.

I townread Green Crayosn for his thoughts on JV, the progression looks quite natural.

All dogs are animals a cat being an animal does not disprove that all dogs are animals
A dog which is not an animal disproves all dogs are animals

Yeah, I don't really care to argue a point that has already been addressed by VFP. I don't think it will get us anywhere

I don't like this response; Flow trap points out you're using a fallacy in your reasoning and your first response is to call it unimportant rather than either modify your reasoning or argue that you didn't use a fallacy.

[NDMath]

As of who I think is town

Mini

is focused on the game at me. It's not like it's a popular place to push and there are much easier / accpetable targets for Mini to go for here. I don't think scum Mini get concerned about me asking for a prod on them either. The back and fourther between them and Dk was just not useful on a scale of sorting. The above is what makes me think town too.

Null

Dragons

I almost want to put as lean town but I feel that they do reads to appease rather than what they believe. Personally I think Dragon has a lot to offer though if town and I want to go through more reads with them directly day 2.

Lean scum

Green

is playing as a typical scum, pick a target and stick to it without adding anything else to the game. As it stands there seem to be a few names I can't see with Green and with my thoughts on the Mini wagon I can see this as a good lim.

I disagree with your reasoning on minivirgo. I think you had been an 'easy/acceptable' target for scum to push, and the concern about the prod seems very nai in that it's a genuine frustration they would have at you regardless of their alignment.

On Dragons, can you give an example of where they 'appease instead of believe'?

I townread Green before but looking at his iso I do see what you are getting at. Can you elaborate on the names you can't see being scum with Green, I'm not understanding that part?

no, VFB

very-fried-brain

Do you have any thoughts on the koba and minivirgo argument?

VOTE: flow

Can you explain this scumread? (If you did earlier I'm not finding it.)

[NDMath]

Do you have any thoughts on the koba and minivirgo argument?

I do

I'm sure you know what my follow up question is

[NDMath]

Spoiler: biggish quote

Do you have any thoughts on the koba and minivirgo argument?

I do

I'm sure you know what my follow up question is

well, ngl, it was kinda off-putting and killed my desire to play for a bit.

The reason for koba's initial push (which was mini hasn't towntold) was very weak, so weak that I didn't think anyone was gonna bite on that. So to me, mini's reaction was way overblown, especially given there was hardly any vote on the slot at the time. Of course, I don't know the history between these players, and tbh really can't be arsed to take that into consideration in how I read them, but since that seems to plays an important role here so I kinda have to to a certain degree.

Usually I associate strong emotions with town because it's just hard to fake as scum, and it's very easy to tell when scum is faking it, but usually this only applies when they are in danger of being eliminated. So it's more a case of associating it with desire to win. But mini wasn't in danger of being eliminated, in fact I think he was wagoned due to how he handled the pressure, and I don't see town reacting that strongly, especially on day 1 because a green flip here hardly impacts town's prospectives. So I think he reacted poorly to the pressure, leaning scum on the slot

(OR he could be pr with an exciting ability and he fears not bing able to use it but you didn't hear it from me)

I like this response compared to your previous posts.


VOTE: minivirgo
Still think this slot has the plurality chance to be scum; definitely prefer it to flowtrap who's only being scumread for posting in weird style.


The Flea and Dragons interaction to me looks bad for flea because the accusation that dragons hadn't read the post was unfounded and there isn't a reason for town!flea to think that in the first place.

[NDMath]

Spoiler: biggish quote

Do you have any thoughts on the koba and minivirgo argument?

I do

I'm sure you know what my follow up question is

well, ngl, it was kinda off-putting and killed my desire to play for a bit.

The reason for koba's initial push (which was mini hasn't towntold) was very weak, so weak that I didn't think anyone was gonna bite on that. So to me, mini's reaction was way overblown, especially given there was hardly any vote on the slot at the time. Of course, I don't know the history between these players, and tbh really can't be arsed to take that into consideration in how I read them, but since that seems to plays an important role here so I kinda have to to a certain degree.

Usually I associate strong emotions with town because it's just hard to fake as scum, and it's very easy to tell when scum is faking it, but usually this only applies when they are in danger of being eliminated. So it's more a case of associating it with desire to win. But mini wasn't in danger of being eliminated, in fact I think he was wagoned due to how he handled the pressure, and I don't see town reacting that strongly, especially on day 1 because a green flip here hardly impacts town's prospectives. So I think he reacted poorly to the pressure, leaning scum on the slot

(OR he could be pr with an exciting ability and he fears not bing able to use it but you didn't hear it from me)

I like this response compared to your previous posts.


VOTE: minivirgo
Still think this slot has the plurality chance to be scum; definitely prefer it to flowtrap who's only being scumread for posting in weird style.


The Flea and Dragons interaction to me looks bad for flea because the accusation that dragons hadn't read the post was unfounded and there isn't a reason for town!flea to think that in the first place.

the way Math completely mischaracterized Flow slipping is noted

It's not a slip if no one can state a reason for it which only applies to scum.
(which flowtrap has asked people for numerous times)

The Flea and Dragons interaction to me looks bad for flea because the accusation that dragons hadn't read the post was unfounded and there isn't a reason for town!flea to think that in the first place.

It was ultimately crossed wires, and I was of the view the post had been skimmed, not read.
Was it just that bit looking bad for me or more of it? because that's a pretty naff bit to just be worth calling out.

To the first sentence, I guess that view makes sense.
I'm not understanding what the other two sentences are saying/asking.

[NDMath]

Calling me out just for that reason seems a little pointless and quite trivial, maybe later on during a case development. Why now?

I scum read it 'now' and I didn't see me voting for you this phase. Waiting to bring it up day 2 doesn't make any sense (to me at least), and I also wanted your reaction to see if it would change my mind.


Read through those last 8ish pages quickly.
I will be on within an hour of deadline to vote the leading wagon. (I should also be on in ~12 hours too)

I still prefer Andante slot elim, their catchup hasn't affected my read. I don't believe the notion that they wouldn't put effort in as scum.

My top townreads are still koba and flowtrap.
I think GrandpaMo's catchup has been townie, meh on T3.

[NDMath]

Not much to say right now.
I don't think T3's vote is scum-indicative; we need to get an elim in.

Andante technically should be roleclaiming but I struggle to see it mattering.

[NDMath]

Catching up right now

[NDMath]

Not much to say right now.
I don't think T3's vote is scum-indicative; we need to get an elim in.

Andante technically should be roleclaiming but I struggle to see it mattering.

Voting me, cause "we need to get an elim in" is the absolute worst reason to vote me, I feel like I've had some pretty damn towny post since entering, and I've done way more than N_M who has been here, and T3 is still catching up I guess?


What logical sense does it make, as town, to yeet me off when I'm a significant contributor


I understand we want an elim here, but of all the people you could elim, do you really want me?

I guess I disagree about you have townie posts, they definitely don't outweigh minivirgo's reactions.
I also don't consider posting level important to deciding whom to elim.



Intent to hammer shortly, though koba's making me second guess it.
T3's recent posts have been poor, feeling a bit better about T3 being scum.

[NDMath]

If youre hammering thats a declaration you want that slot dead not a "its optimal to lim here" thing because its 14 rn

I think there's solid odds of a desperado?

[NDMath]

If this flips town DK is more likely to be town tbh

I think that also applies to a scumflip.

[NDMath]

Agree that andante is nearly hardcleared.

t3 was hard town. it was an embarassment that he was limmed and most definitely scum pushed.

Who would you define as having pushed it?

so is consensus that im basically clear here?

Pretty much lol

T3

(8): flow trap,

GrandpaMo

, Artemiana, Save the Dragons,

Not_Mafia

, Andante, Flea the Magician, VFP ELIMINATION

I don't think Andante or Flea are scum here. I also don't think that this is an all town wagon.
Flow / Art / Dragons

DMG / Yessiree / Dragon from Grampa's reads.

Dragon
Art
Flow
DMG
Yessiree

Thats the order I'd lim right now.

Can you elaborate on why you're townreading Flea?

best defense 2021: i'm town

you guys limmed this?

You monsters

This is a type of post scum make a lot post-hammer.
VOTE: yessiree

[NDMath]

Anyone town reading Dragon here?

Yeah, I think their eod1 was townie; they handled being wagoned well. Their reads looked genuine to me. Their engagement today has also been strong.

I'd rather elim today somewhere in {Yes, Flea, DMG, Arte, Rob} depending on how day goes. Last three are basically null reads right now, two being absent day1 and DMG just hasn't left much of an impression on me.

[NDMath]

Yeah, I think their eod1 was townie; they handled being wagoned well. Their reads looked genuine to me. Their engagement today has also been strong.

I'd rather elim today somewhere in {Yes, Flea, DMG, Arte, Rob} depending on how day goes. Last three are basically null reads right now, two being absent day1 and DMG just hasn't left much of an impression on me.

We're aiming for scum day 2. What makes Arte and Rob a decent vote to get scum?
And why is Yessiree scum here?

Jackson explained the most of it.

Reads based off activity are generally lazy

, and specifically so on a slot that hasn't posted at all (where that reason is very very likely to not be game related.)

Keep in mind I'm going by this post as well.

"depending on how the day goes", "basically null right now"
As in I hope for more posts from Arte and Rob to sort them.
Yessiree was anti the T3 elim, but only after he was dead. Their longer posts are 734 and 785, the former is quite fencesitty and I don't like the conclusions of the latter/they don't seem real. A few of the shorter posts before that were good but nothing has stood out to me as town-indicative from him since.

yessiree, who are you scum reading?

I will get back to you on this after I figure out who replaced who

@Yes

or is it just robert?

[NDMath]

who are you wanting here?

std.
Dmg possibily if they dont come back and start solving- i know whos in the slot.
I think 3rd scum maybe ndmath if it's neither flow or you

Asking for a reason for me. And how you went from "scum hardpushed T3 elim" to the rest of this pool?

Not much to say right now.
I don't think T3's vote is scum-indicative; we need to get an elim in.

Andante technically should be roleclaiming but I struggle to see it mattering.

I don’t like this post. Assuming Andante is town, NDMath is kinda putting out a hopeless vibe. He should have either been wagoning or pushing Andante harder or trying to find someone else who could have been elimmed. The shade of T3 is also horrible.

VOTE: NDMath

Andante was my top scumread at the time (not anymore of course), and I thought the elim was nearly locked in (it was morning of the deadline).
That isn't shade at all? I'm defending T3.

Spoiler: Relevant Posts

Andante is

VOTE: Andante

VOTE: ANDANTE$&()"'-+/@!?:;,…

T3 scum maybe.
I'll deal with it tomorrow though.

Official Vote Count 1.12

---

Elimination

With 14 votes in play, it takes 8 to eliminate someone.

Andante

(5): Not_Mafia, NDMath, Yessiree, VFP, T3

Save the Dragons

(2): DkKoba, Flea the Magician

Not_Mafia

(2): Andante, Save the Dragons

flow trap

(1): Dark Magician Girl

mozamis

(1): flow trap

Dark Magician Girl

(1): GrandpaMo

Artemiana

(1): mozamis

Not Voting

(1): Artemiana

Deadline:

(expired on 2021-04-24 19:00:00).

Mod notes:

[/area]

[NDMath]

Reads like shade to me. I don’t think what T3 is scum indicative (but) we need to get an elim in. The implication is T3 is an acceptable elim kinda a have to.

Why are you focused more on defense instead of convincing people yes is scum? Seems odd you seemed more focused on me than getting support for your wagon.

I'm confused by the first paragraph, I was saying that T3's vote was fine because we need to get an elim in. I don't understand how you're getting that implication.
I'm also trying to better understand why you scumread me to get a read on you since your previous slotholder didn't do much.

Because your reads are shit?

Help me “bus” yes then or explain. (Bus is in quotes as I can’t bus)

If I had two votes I would be voting ND and Yes but alas I do not.

w o w, has McToughGuy entered the building?

You should look in a mirror, tough guy, because that's what I think about your "reads" (reads is in quotes since they're fake reads).

You picked one post from NDMath yesterday as the sole basis for your scumread on him, one vote from him on me as your sole basis of his "bus" and then picked 2 other players to be in your poe pool that were generally already been scumread by other slots. Seems to me you just faked a bunch of low quality reads devoid of any deeper thought process.

There, that's one of my reads. I've met my quota for the weekend, boss. Now if you'll excuse me...

VOTE: yessiree

I can no longer suffer this scum to live another day.

Can you elaborate? I thought this was one of yes's better posts.

Paused on where Koba claimed PR. There have been multiple softs/claims of PR from N1 during my skim. Pretty confused why the N1 shot died unless they thought he was going to heal A. So A is lock town.

Since Koba and Flow and A are all claimed to be/are combinations of PR/likely/conf town that means an elim there isn’t beneficial. Gonna seem like a game of chess.

Who is A? If it's Andante why do you think they would've been the preferred nk night 1??

[NDMath]

Responding inline underline is me

Reads like shade to me. I don’t think what T3 is scum indicative (but) we need to get an elim in. The implication is T3 is an acceptable elim kinda a have to.

Why are you focused more on defense instead of convincing people yes is scum? Seems odd you seemed more focused on me than getting support for your wagon.

I'm confused by the first paragraph, I was saying that T3's vote was fine because we need to get an elim in. I don't understand how you're getting that implication.
I'm also trying to better understand why you scumread me to get a read on you since your previous slotholder didn't do much.

I mean I broke it down grammatically word by word what was there. Considering VFP I am willing to let this go as arguing sentence structure is not helpful but it’s quite literally not what you said. I am an extremely literal person and that rubbed me the wrong way. While catching up VFP strikes me as the more likely scum here of you and VFP

Paused on where Koba claimed PR. There have been multiple softs/claims of PR from N1 during my skim. Pretty confused why the N1 shot died unless they thought he was going to heal A. So A is lock town.

Since Koba and Flow and A are all claimed to be/are combinations of PR/likely/conf town that means an elim there isn’t beneficial. Gonna seem like a game of chess.

Who is A? If it's Andante why do you think they would've been the preferred nk night 1??

I apologize. I ran thoughts together. It seems like VFP is running off a town block. Using how town blocks are supposed to be used VFP should be freaking out where his reads are wrong or hypothesizing the exact scum team based off townreading nearly everyone else alive. VFP should be leading/pushing and instead all VFP does is some half assed threat. Koba and A50 know me and know that if you threaten me that will only cause me to look at you more not less. Not sure what VFP’s goal is here but I don’t see any solving going on. Just random “x is town” posts.

@VFP who is scum?

And yes A is Andante. That wasn’t towards A being the nightkill N1 but it’s more towards A is lock town and VFP isn’t leveraging that or trying to work with A and simple math means VFP should be happy/excited/doing something.

First Part: I'd argue the context I provided you should be considered when looking at the meaning, and is also part of 'what was there'. I also don't like you saying I didn't say what I clearly did say, but agree to drop it.
Second Part: To clarify, what parts if any of the quoted post 1918 have you not since changed your mind on?
On VFP: It seems like you're using an awkward mix of recent and old VFP posts and I'm struggling to understand your logic; For example I don't see why VFP not interacting with andante much would be scum-indicative? Also throughout severe of your posts your thought process that most town should lead and push a lot is very weird to me.

he doesnt like playing scum too much and was not so motivated when i played with him.

I generally enjoy playing scum more than town; just had busy real-life stuff during that game leading me to replace out.
I can't argue with any of your other meta conclusions though.


I think A50 is town here, granted I lack the meta knowledge others have. His frustration isn't really ATE-y, instead straightforward reasons why he doesn't care much. Although I disagree with the mindset, to me it is moreso what town thinks than what scum thinks.

Not sure on Robert but he has similar reads to me.

[NDMath]

ND isn't all up in my face like "convince me you're not scum." or "who's scum? where's your reads? huh huh huh huh". He has been here the whole time and has all the necessary gamestate context to scumread me at the moment. Doesn't mean he's not wrong.

The votecount does suggest you're town, but I think that's just because the two near conf towns are currently voting me.
Can you explain your scumread/vote on Dragons?

I mean, I'll happily go back to A50 lol, everyone just seemed to auto TR them for coming in and yelling about how they don't care to read..

The funny part is nobody still cared to explain ANYTHING to me. What are the cases on X, Y & Z (aside from the one on me)? Why are you semi-confirmed? Did we have any claims? I feel like I'm talking behind some soundproof glass wall where you all can see me but no one can hear me. Problem is I'm doing it in writing/typing and not actually talking! Maybe my typing is in Invisible ink

N_M shot a townie because he was an additional death and as a desperado dies instead of his target if he targets town. We think Andante was targeted based off N_M's iso. The only living claimed player is flowtrap.

dkkoba believes I'm playing similar to when I was scum with them. VFP started day2 with me out of their hangpool but gradually stated stronger scumreads on me until voting me; I'm not actually finding a reason? Flow is sheeping andante. Andante is sheeping Flow.

Spoiler: yessiree scumread

Yessiree was anti the T3 elim, but only after he was dead. Their longer posts are 734 and 785, the former is quite fencesitty and I don't like the conclusions of the latter/they don't seem real. A few of the shorter posts before that were good but nothing has stood out to me as town-indicative from him since.

They have a couple better posts since this but my read is still the same. Can't speak for the other three voting yessiree.

Idk anything else aside from NDM being somewhat quiet

Somewhat quiet is scum-indicative because ?

[NDMath]

ughhh I like ndmath way more than A50 right now... I know there's more than 1 scum, but A50 is the only one I really wanna flip

Do you think his play today is scummy or are you just carrying over a scumread from DMG? (your iso is unclear)

[NDMath]

Exactly. A50 is a much better elim even in the worse case we are wrong.

Andante gets his elim as lock town.

---

Then if scum kill say flow for example to prevent him confirming himself we keep a prob lock town in Adante for the next day.

But if scum kill Adante and flow doesn’t confirm himself then two days no confirm suspicion goes really high.

This also enables PRs to do what they need unimpeded.

---

If we elim ND or yes we are conceding control away from the town block which is not how town blocks work which means one if not both of ND/yes are likely town.

This logic is wonky. (I inserted dashes.) The middle part is completely unrelated to the argument of the post. The actual logic is just 'A50 is the best elim because Andante, the most conf player of the townblock, chose it'. This is flawed since it assumes she has above average reads. It should be considered of course but it shouldn't be automatic elim that scumread.

I also don't think the wagon can be on scum when it's essentially my-wagon+Dragons // the same group of people following Blade's vote.

if yesiree flips town im unclearing andante and believing more that flow is the one who got desperado'd bc NM played against scum flow recently and we were scumreading him here too

I don't see anything in N_M's iso indicating he was scumreading Flow?


It's 5 votes A50 to 4 votes yes. The people not voting a wagon are A50 and yes.
idk what this means in terms of vca.

[NDMath]

mathblade and I are clear ty

VOTE: dkkoba

I'm 1-Shot Watcher, koba was the only visitor lol.

I'd imagine that {Robert, Yes, Flea} is the gamewinning poe since two bussers could have easily instead got yes or me elim'd yesterday.

[NDMath]

Why do you think scum!Koba tries to clear me out of the gate as scum?

Neither strategy makes sense for scum.

ND fake claiming a guilty on Koba seems dumb because we elim them the next day.
Koba faking a inno on me seems dumb when we said watchers on flow.

I just think Kona’s better than that. So I am confused.

Pretty sure it's a statement about you leading the wagon on A50 and trying to lump themself in too.

[NDMath]

Possibly but they claimed PR early.

That was a wifom claim; doesn't mean anything especially from koba.

[NDMath]

What really damns Koba is they disappeared.

We know they were online from trying to clear me.

Makes the ND+Koba combo viable here if it’s intentional

I'm confused what of this makes you think S/S.

also if ndmath wants to hardclaim, cool, but we aren't speedvoting me here because I am town and i want to use the discussion time.

Yes it's a hardclaim

[NDMath]

What really damns Koba is they disappeared.

We know they were online from trying to clear me.

Makes the ND+Koba combo viable here if it’s intentional

I'm confused what of this makes you think S/S.

also if ndmath wants to hardclaim, cool, but we aren't speedvoting me here because I am town and i want to use the discussion time.

Yes it's a hardclaim

Because I don’t see why Koba scum kills someone being watched

I means from scumteam's perspective odds are there isn't a watcher. Koba probably thought they could still force an elim on andante or something.

[NDMath]

who's my partner?

I was at Robert>Yes>Flea but Robert's voted you already so it's probably yessiree like andante is saying.
It doesn't make sense to be anyone on wagon since then you could have easily stopped A50's wagon.

nahh but ndmath really thought that he could frame me as:

leading kill

killing flow trap

not killing mathblade

like no?

Hey you're writing the argument for me.

[NDMath]

Am hoping to get thoughts from Yes and flea on koba/me since that's gonna be the most telling information in terms of partner.


@Andante Remind me why you don't think flea is the last scum? Looking at their iso they've been townreading A50/DMG since forever and had weird thoughts on koba. Particularly the thoughts in 1985 when flea had also sheeped koba multiple times earlier on. I also still don't understand their flowtrap tunnel.


[quote=Setup wiki Page]A Mafia member can not perform a Nightkill and another action at the same Night.[/quote]
This probably explains why koba was committing the kill actually.

[NDMath]

you keep saying this... there's literally no guarantee we have a watcher

If me and Dk are scum together then ND is 100% a Watcher.

If I were scum I would have killed Flow for the record.
Mainly to see if it clears not having a Watcher to use as an advantage.
If Dk said no to me in scum chat I'd call them chicken and they would go along with it.
This would have back fired on us, but in the long run we tried a risky play.

It is actually highly likely that me and Dk are scum buddies here. I will be willing to sacrifice my buddy before me as well.

I meant it like, maf don't know for sure if there's a watcher, so they can easily just hit flow... Blade is acting like maf knew for sure there was one

This is a blatant misrep.

What I am saying is that multiple players all of whom cannot be scum suggested to watch flow.

That means that it is likely scum would not kill flow. The fact they did means either no watcher or planned substandard kill. Considering they just lost A50 the first is more likely.

I'm confused by what you mean by no watcher. If I were a scumwatcher there would still be the possibility of a town watcher.

I am kinda wanting to elim ND because Koba’s really seeming to wim than ND

I'm obviously biased but I don't see much impressive.
They're just omgusing Robert while acting like they're open-minded about it, and making questionable arguments that they[koba] are town.

I think scum would redirect flow onto themselves or flow forgot.

The reason being is that if they have flow eat the message if someone was a jailkeeper or roleblocker or doctor that saved flow then flow still looks bad. That’s my hunch. Admittedly can’t prove it as no access to scum PT but redirect flow to himself makes sense

Though they really should have just let flow send the message. Flow was obvTown anyway damage minimal.

There was only one visitor on flow, their message could not have been redirected.
And having one scum kill and another redirect that same player is a horrible mech play.

thinking out loud here

the watcher claim by scum!ND seems dangerous because if there's a(nother) watcher they'd be on flow, they'd be able to say they didn't see ND on flow thus proving ND a liar pretty quick. that makes me think scum or town, ND is a watcher and probably watched flow last night.

if scum have a redirector and used it on flow to gain his message, then it's ND as a watcher so the other scum would be a redirector. i'm having trouble seeing them not just redirecting to scum and letting flow take heat for the message.

they'd have to know not_mafia was a desparado though to redirect his target from Andante to some one else. that seems rather unlikely, and it seems unlikely that N_M killed desparado'd someone else on purpose, so i think Andante is pretty safe for me.

i don't find the scum redirector theory very likely at this juncture

Same point as above, having two scum visit the kill is a highly risky play and should be apparent as not the case with the speed I claimed the watcher result.

robert do you have any thoughts besides voting koba

Yeah

I have no idea what's happening with redirectors and all that mechanical stuff, I need it explained slowly.

Ignoring the mech stuff, what are those thoughts?

[NDMath]

how am i omgusing robert? Quote it ndmath cmon.

Explain where i omgus rather than explain that they are the most likely partner based on poe

Spoiler:

NDmath>Robert>STD should win the game no matter what

I think robert is the most incriminated based on how shitty their progression is on their partner, as soon as I'm pushing ND, robert popped in and tried to shade me, forgetting they were agreeing with my worldview just a few posts ago.

This is your primary reason for Robert being scum, 'shading you'. Scumreading the person voting you (besides andante who is near clear) is the easiest route for scum because that person is the one hardest to convince. You keeping acting like you're considering other people but then immediately remove them from the poe again.

i think everyone here should like say what their read on NDmath/me is without considering the claimed result as a reason, as it is just a 50/50. NDmath was an extremely likely elimination here today without their gambit here - so it should be a null point anyways.

There's multiple posts of this, but koba's been trying to reframe the conversation to be entirely about dayplay when it isn't because of the hardguilty.

mathblade and I are clear ty

VOTE: dkkoba

I'm 1-Shot Watcher, koba was the only visitor lol.

I'd imagine that {Robert, Yes, Flea} is the gamewinning poe since two bussers could have easily instead got yes or me elim'd yesterday.

btw - ndmath went from saying Robert is PoE to this.

also NDMath, any crumbs of being watcher?

i know for a fact town you does crumb you are a player to do that. i know you didnt because you are fake watcher but lets see you confirm there is no crumb esp when you were on the chopping block and a likely lim.

like i said - force ndmath to participate and show their colors. ive already explained many times over that ndmath has been way too shallow in relation to actual town!ndmath meta. town ndmath is way more decriptive in their read depth.


the fact ndmath like even has a pretend poe solve right away is crazy actually i just thought of this - like lets PRETEND ndmath actually is a legit watcher and they saw scum me visit flow. why does ndmath expect me to be there - why are they not surprised? why is their tone like matter of fact, like its something they expected + they even betray this tone with the poe they already had right there ready to go. town perspective there is to be more focused on how incredulous it is first and not have a team prepared there.

In these two posts koba is literally just making stuff up; this is their first game playing with town!me. And I don't crumb, especially in (semi)opens, so I have no idea how koba "knows for a fact" the opposite.

OK so 1) Its evident you're scumreading me, yay I love it.
2) Why? I want some meat to go with the bones at least. Give me fluff and amma yeet you, what you've given is bearly bones.
3) Convince me why to vote koba instead of just the guilty.

4) Why if you're so keen on me being the last scum, do you want my thoughts on this rather amusing 1vs1?

You are severely overestimating my confidence level in you being scum, and I am not sure why.

[NDMath]

VOTE: NDMath

[NDMath]

I am always looking for constructive criticism for how I mod and what I can do to make the game more enjoyable. Besides the error of course please let me know anything I could have done better.

(Another error is that in the mod PT you have that 1 scum was on the T3 wagon when there were actually 0.)
Your modding was good.


The setup we ended up getting was scumsided, but if the four shots missing shots had been in play for town the setup is probably(?) slightly townsided. Which can be argued to reward scum for sniping out the town 2-shot jk, but I disagree with that on the premise it did not feel skillful of me, much more so luck based.


Many of the town members were strong this game.