Mini 2206 - Deja Vu: Perpetual MELO IV - END!

[petapan]

[petapan]

UNVOTE:

i had been following along for 20-ish pages but did not keep up with later events

i had one major takeaway

which is that as much as it would give me sheer vindictive pleasure to dunk nacho's head into the sand at this very moment i'm pretty sure he's town here and the wagon on him just absolutely sucks here

and i saw it happening while i was watching from outside the game and was internally screaming, hoping a slot would open up for me so i could stop this travesty

[petapan]

hi skitter how's it going

[petapan]

if nacho is actually town here i can't imagine why it's so hard to get votes on him >.>
peta why is he town?
and what other reads do you have if you've been following along?

pedit meh ok, you?

~ skitter

i was actually scumreading the hell out of kismet before he outed for reasons that are probably not good in hindsight

beyond that not a lot! my attention tailed off because i was busy with other things and i wasn't taking notes so i'm going to have to do a full-on catchup to have any real reads

well it's the _other_ slot i felt bad about my interactions w/ in tenet.

i would welcome any meaningful contributions that you have about why nacho's town, as i am acknowledging the wide error bars that my reads on him generally have.

it's like entirely a meta thing where i just got off losing to him in a game offsite where he was nothing like this - was lifeless, shit he was saying made no sense, generally hung in the background - and here he's pretty much the exact opposite (man talks the talk about loving scum but he can't walk the walk). i think the response to pressure has been authentically town for him, i don't think he starts off the game with a move that draws negative attention to himself like trying to policy n_m as scum because he knows he'll get blowback, and the reasons for voting him have been really ??? to me in general

like can someone give me a brief summary of why they're scumreading him?

[petapan]

Hi peta forgive my last post I am excited to play with you but bummed I’m playing against you

bold of u to claim scum like this

[petapan]

so you're comfortable enough w/ my meta to have shook that off?
either way can you indulge me on your early game read on me? because i think i had a lot of meaningful interaction w/ nacho early game and i want to know how your read on nacho fits into that

no lmao

i'm just choosing to defer that read to others because i don't think i have a clue

i hated your first post, after that the approach was, like, trying to come across as even handed but with words that were empty, in general i think defending n_m in this setup is +scum, first line of 117 felt pocket-y, and your vote on my slot is kind of not good reasons for a scumread even on page 5 (why is a badly phrased question scummy?)

really i'm trying to put a bunch of words here to what boils down to "gut"

[petapan]

it strikes me that a lot of the mental state i'm trying to get you to dredge up is a mental state you'd have had prior to receiving your role pm and therefore a terrible way to read you.

I'd actually just prefer if you told me what your reads currently are and why

yeah i mean that's a thing and it's also not really relevant to all the current developments in the game

and again i don't have current reads because i'm not caught up on the game, but i have a lot of stress and pissed off energy with nowhere to go so i'm going to just try to bulldog it over the next couple days and get up to speed

[petapan]

peta do u have a read on me?
(skitter)

no!

but some of lilith's posts earlier in the game were decently town-indicative for her, i felt

[petapan]

if you'd like to get in another screaming match so we can figure out we're town though i'd oblige

[petapan]

UNVOTE:

i had been following along for 20-ish pages but did not keep up with later events

i had one major takeaway

which is that as much as it would give me sheer vindictive pleasure to dunk nacho's head into the sand at this very moment i'm pretty sure he's town here and the wagon on him just absolutely sucks here

and i saw it happening while i was watching from outside the game and was internally screaming, hoping a slot would open up for me so i could stop this travesty

Sorry you replaced into a scum slot

ok tammy

[petapan]

cakez i know you wanting to catch me is funny memes and all but this aint the game where it gets to happen

[petapan]

Petapan's entry is delightful!

Come vote Bulge with me!

i'm looking at his iso and...this is actually the most solving i've seen from bulge, ever? he is similar to bork this game in that my track record of reading there ain't great and so i'd probably listen to people who are more familiar but i'm not seeing it on its own. looking at your reads the case is like: bad read on infinity, isn't voting(???), feels distant? am i getting that right?

his AtE at the end of his iso is, admittedly weird, but without context i can't really judge where it's coming from

[petapan]

Would a scum team of mena nacho mom lg notmaf want to let nacho die or the habitual lurk scum. If you are townreading this wagon of four you have to understand scum want no part in killing nacho which should tell you anyone trying to derail it is immediately sus.

ya dude its me known powerwolf swooping in to save my teammate that half the game has converged on

like what the hell is this

[petapan]

if you say "but popcorn" i will smack you

[petapan]

(btw bork, love sentinels, nice alt. do you play the digital version at all?)

[petapan]

i would probably feel obligated to townread you regardless (even though i hate the prospect) but wouldn't be going full bore

[petapan]

more familiar but i'm not seeing it on its own. looking at your reads the case is like: bad read on infinity, isn't voting(???), feels distant? am i getting that right?

Bulge solving usually comes in smaller bites but it feels better than this. Him taking all that time to make the biggest wall he's ever made but not placing a vote is a problem, absolutely - scum put in effort to look town where town put in effort to find scum and kill scum and also look town. I don't think his wall furthers a town agenda (as a whole doesn't feel like he tried to actually solve anything especially with stuff like the "nacho is the most important person to solve" without saying anything about me) - and putting all that effort in and not having a scum suspect you feel comfortable voting boggles my mind although maybe I weigh the importance of voting too much. I can absofuckinglutely see that wall in a world where Bulge wants to fool notscience, though.

right, the wall wasn't actually the thrust of it for me, it was the little bits and bites before that. the wall itself is like...idk, i haven't dug into the details enough to really conclude anything

i almost feel like him making a whole entry on noddy that is purely a joke is, like, more levity than i'd expect scum to put into a readslist. the short entries at the end of the post suck though

i do wish these were the halcyon days gone by where not voting = autoscum. simpler times, with fewer pages (briefly before its demise EM developed a forum mafia subculture, where everyone posted 5000 times and never voted until the end of the day and scum won like 65% of the time it was obnoxious). it's not always anymore though but maybe in context it's not as good especially if he claims to be scumreading you

[petapan]

I’d kill peta regardless of nachos flip

lol ok

[petapan]

VOTE: notscience

[petapan]

his posts since i subbed in have sucked ass

[petapan]

Bulge get your butt in here and be my Goose.

I’m not rolling over and nacho trying to derail onto bulge is sus as fuck and I will go through this entire game if I have to

Bork beeboy lurked into a replace out in your game don’t you let up on the gas at all.

Bork he’s been half assed distancing for the last half of the day. How does this not make sense that nacho would bus a weaker buddy and try to coast on the towncred after the people who can argue him down are dead.

Would a scum team of mena nacho mom lg notmaf want to let nacho die or the habitual lurk scum. If you are townreading this wagon of four you have to understand scum want no part in killing nacho which should tell you anyone trying to derail it is immediately sus.

(Also two votes hardly constitutes a wagon)

@cakez be my lld means sheep me and If I’m wrong you can kill me

@mara- look nachos picking on more LHF you should vote him

@notmafia- I’m gonna get you a pretty hammer

this is the most obvious desperate hustle to secure a misyeet before i can derail it

used car salesman energy

[petapan]

I mean am i scum? I'm sitting here trying to get the exact same wagon he is

...

not in the same specific way and you've also engaged with me in a way he hasn't

like, you, bork, nacho have all actually talked with me and tried to see with my perspective where his reaction has just looked like someone frustrated the easy misyeet slipped from his fingers

[petapan]

If I was going for an easy misyeet why the fuck would I choose nacho

Do you even read what you say before you post it? Half the plist is hard lurking

i meant your reaction to my replace in

[petapan]

If I was going for an easy misyeet why the fuck would I choose nacho

Do you even read what you say before you post it? Half the plist is hard lurking

i meant your reaction to my replace in

Wait are you or nacho tje easy misflip here
I thought u were talking abt nacho

rereading my own words and i guess i wasn't clear

on one level, the reaction to me showing up was like "damn, can't push beeboy for lurking anymore"

but coinciding with that, the immediate attempts to strongarm votes onto nacho right as i'm saying "y'all are fucking crazy he's obvtown" but before i can really get into gear feels like someone who knows if they don't get rolling and discredit me out the gate i'm going to derail shit and then the wagon scum wanted is going to evaporate

[petapan]

do you want me to pretend to have the game solved on day 1 while still having not read most of it? what a ridiculous question

i'm just living and reacting in the moment right now and can tell i don't like what you're doing

[petapan]

lol is that the dynamic going on? i see how it is

[petapan]

i'm going to derail shit and then the wagon scum wanted is going to evaporate

I think said wagon is p damn townie and unlikely to be scum motivated

see i can already tell this whee let's all hold hands we're all so town everything is great and the game is solved on day 1 dynamic is incredibly unhealthy especially looking at where it's leading

and i'm wondering how many times you'll end up killing obvtown before you realize this townblock is toxic and you are being pocketed

@peta how are you reading infinity?

- lilith

iso looks...not great? i think the overly willful defense of N_M is like always pro-scum here regardless of N_M's alignment, there is basically no substance to her scumread of nacho at all, she seems to have latched onto the wagon just because it's being pushed by the people she's aligning herself with and keeps burying him without any elaboration on why, the way she's speaking to him is like, "oh i have to seem reasonable and like i'm really considering what you have to say but in the end i know i'm going to yeet you [because that is my win condition], sorry". 1106 is just straight up shoveling dirt on him

[petapan]

hi peta

-M

hello how's it going

i see you are also in opposition to this atrocious wagon but unfortunately your vote is on me

could i persuade you to find a more suitable counterwagon

skitter said mena doesn't want me to talk to him which made me not really want to open this game today :/

- lilith

I have more thoughts on mena but I don't really want to talk about it anymore because I feel like I'm just going to get attacked and feel shitty afterwards

- lilith

okay, I want to address this first: sorry, i was probably being too harsh but I found the way you decided to approach me really bizarre if your slot is town and it annoyed me bc it felt a lot like a scum pile-on while I was already not feeling like playing

I just don't get why town!you decides to like, just call me scum while having barely talked to me all game based on one game of meta when traditionally town!you has not been that confident on reading me, instead of like, doing anything that might help you to see I'm town or to try and get me to want to actually play

-M

lmao i love watching this show

[petapan]

i see you are also in opposition to this atrocious wagon but unfortunately your vote is on me

could i persuade you to find a more suitable counterwagon

it's more of a placeholder

where should I be voting?

and what do you mean about the show?

i was more asking you who your other scumreads are

and i mean the mena/skitter show, obviously

[petapan]

i see you are also in opposition to this atrocious wagon but unfortunately your vote is on me

could i persuade you to find a more suitable counterwagon

I've experienced Peta replace ins before and he's never been so obsessed with how people are reading him

"obsessed" is a rather disingenuous statement - i am in opposition to this shitwagon and am trying to work with people to create a counter to it

speaking of which

VOTE: cakez

[petapan]

These aren't the real reasons I SR nacho (namely gut) but other people have pointed out a) his read flip on VFT was sudden and didn't seem genuine, and the read didn't seem genuine to begin with, b) The "sheep me after I die" thing didn't make much sense when he had similar reads to a bunch of other people and c) the read flip on peta when he replaced in didn't make sense

so after looking through for a) (while cringing at how painfully town he is there, he's not responding with the dramatic theatrics i'd expect from him here as scum - i don't think he makes 483 or as scum), he's staying focused on trying read people andd get a broad picture rather than turning things into a drawn out argument), i don't see what's so bad about changing the read there necessarily? he was arguing with them and started to change his mind. it happens. and just because an action does not

make sense

doesn't mean it has to be scum motivated. that's one of the things i feel scum like to push people on, that they're being "weird" and "don't make sense" rather than actually calling them outright scummy, because they can't bridge the gap of making a real case. why does he reverse his read there at all?

b) is literally whatever, it's a line town says or scum says to look town, it's really altogether trivial. why does it matter if his reads are similar to other people? unless they're pure common consensus i'd expect town to want to assert that over some people who think differently

c) is prior to me showing up so i don't think it can really be held up as justification for aread you've had for seemingly a majority of the game but nacho knows i know this isn't his scumgame and is probably going to welcome me as a voice of reason, and i AM in fact more readable than random lurkslot, i effectively outed myself to him in popcorn mafia within very little time after subbing in. i'd be worried if he was going "peta locktown" but that's not really what he's saying

[petapan]

i don't think he makes 483 or 736 as scum),

EBWOP

[petapan]

why are people not talking about momrangal btw

[petapan]

VOTE: momrangal

[petapan]

VOTE: momrangal

get back on cakez

i'm calling their bluff

[petapan]

Here are the relevant posts and they’re just bad or neutral:

VOTE: venus fly trap
Cursed hydra

blah

i've fallen for the not maf policy yeet too many times

looking for reasons to avoid NM

scumlords!

nothing posting

I see a bunch of pages here but it is very late so I will see y'all tomorrow

nothing posting

policying NM is my idea of a good time

-Mena

why not a good book ^.^

no

VOTE: NM

-Mena

Eh, I don't like this vote.

UNVOTE: Venus Fly Trap

VOTE: Disaster Cartel

I will sheep this in lack of something better
still reading

VOTE: disaster cartel

incredibly lazy vote on me that’s not really justified but worth bearing in mind that I’m p sure others had also been voicing dislike of me (like kismet) making this safe

I like Kismet, Salsa and Infinity. Not crazy about notsci, L+G, or Venus Fly Trap. I can have lots of scumreads in this game

I stg if we have to have another conversation about policy limming and why it’s worth it I will put my face through my desk given the context

-Mena

this seems so fake

Or we could let the game breathe and if we really can’t come up with a better option and need a deadline scramble then we decide to go there

I’m not saying we speed lim I’m saying that the only reason policy lims don’t work is bc people get attached to their pet SRs which most of the time aren’t any better than rand, and we should just play it safe and agree that we’re limming NM unless someone basically claims scum

-Mena

YIKES

Vote: Not_Mafia

Was a fun thought while it lasted. Don't think notscience is out of scum range but do like what he's posted so far.

i've fallen for the not maf policy yeet too many times

If Not_Mafia flips scum (which is looking more and more possible by the minute), then ^this^ is a potential partner.

sure dude

also i am glad to see that my partner did not play after telling me he would

~leaf

Isn't beeboy the one who just doesn't post as scum?

this is true

This has already been covered, but when pushed on these reasons they just... weren’t good and didn’t have much depth to them. But after I interrogated cakez on that, did he like re-evaluate or revise his read at all? No, he just doubled down, and that’s what he’s done on nacho too

He’s just picking the easiest targets and coming up with reasons to have his vote on them. His vote on nacho is v much scum looking to make sure a wagon goes through imo

neat, mena's town

[petapan]

see i can already tell this whee let's all hold hands we're all so town everything is great and the game is solved on day 1 dynamic is incredibly unhealthy especially looking at where it's leading

and i'm wondering how many times you'll end up killing obvtown before you realize this townblock is toxic and you are being pocketed

i mean in my mind the game is kinda closed to solved tbh
and i see a lot of things pointing towards em being right, and i don't see a lot of things pointing towards me being wrong

not sure why 'toxic' is hte right word here, or who exactly is pocketing me, but ok

there's no substance to the votes on nacho and i'm really hardcore sure this isn't his scumgame, and the moment i push back on this people are trying to shove him through and cut me off

i bitched about this type of dynamic to you, i thought you were better than this, i guess not

nacho is just scum here and i'm baffled that you're townreading him: his read progression makes no sense and he's being blatantly oppurtusnistic and survivalistic, and just saying whatever if he thinks it'll ward away votes and/or get votes on a different wagon

like what, give me an example

[petapan]

i mean i didn't get the vibe that you were townreading me/us, i thought you were kinda putting us in your scumpool cuz of lilith

Bc I’m not townreading you(pl) I’m townreading you(sing) and jury is still out on your slot overall

Basically

I think I can be wrong on you and right on lili where I’m TRing you and SRing her

But I think that if I’m TRing her then very likely your slot overall is town

Which is why I tried to extend her an olive branch because I would like to talk to her more. Was also never my intention to make her feel like she doesn’t want to play the game and I feel bad if that’s how she took me saying I didn’t wanna speak to her but I was feeling v pissed off at the time with how she was engaging with me

she is a little upset by what u said actually
idk
i don't want to defend/towncase the other half of my slot cuz that would be weird but i don't think you're reading her well

and idk i still find it weird that you're reading us off of lilith and not me

isn't lilith like eminently more readable than you, what's the problem with him doing that

[petapan]

peta isn't really the sort ot get pissed off at tho, and also i don't think that would lead him to scumread someone

This doesn’t really jam that well with what I know of peta who I think has been generally quite emotional and prickly when I’ve played with him

I’m particularly thinking JK9++ when he felt he was getting shitpushed in the later game sections

this is me in almost every game

don't think peta has been townie (and don't think you can just brush off the 'weird' notsci push, but ok)

I think it’s quite explicable as notsci is being dickish in how he’s pushing his reads and if I didn’t already TR him I can see how peta being pissed off with him translated that into seeing him as scum

I think he’ll come round but I think notsci’s “oh sorry you repped into a scum slot” would be frustrating as either alignment and I think it’s pretty NAI that peta SR it

peta isn't really the sort ot get pissed off at tho, and also i don't think that would lead him to scumread someone

@nacho, no it doesn't really make me feel better but i'm not really that surprised

peta isn't really the sort ot get pissed off at tho, and also i don't think that would lead him to scumread someone

This doesn’t really jam that well with what I know of peta who I think has been generally quite emotional and prickly when I’ve played with him

I’m particularly thinking JK9++ when he felt he was getting shitpushed in the later game sections

i actually don't think he was anything like this in jk9++, even when he was getting shitpushed later on
he kept trying to work with people to flip dats/nm

what

how are you misremembering a game that happened a month ago that like half this PL was in or hosting

i got into a massive fight with you because i tried playing lackadasically and you scumread me for it! i said you were pissing me off in that game!

you apologized for it

!
i turned around and started tunneling you even though i didn't really believe in my heart you were scum because i was so annoyed at your bad read on me!

and then when we

finally

let up i turned it around into a reactive tunnel on iconeum for pushing you!

that's to say nothing of, uh, day 1

i realize this is a bad thing for me but i cannot help it


and the circumstances i am entering into this game with are not helping it

[petapan]

The scummiest thing about peta so far is how he's pushing strongly for a thing he believes (nacho town, townbloc has scum) without having figured much out himself

i replaced into a slot people are just writing off as scum with a wagon on someone who is obvious town to me, and people are trying to ram through that wagon before i have a chance to do anything, and so i've been on my backfoot this entire game. i have been scrambling and playing in the moment rather than trying to read through in an systemized fashion and so i am messy as fuck right now (but then, when have i ever presented my thoughts in an organized manner?)

[petapan]

Mom is a universal a undead but no traction came on her wagon
Seems pretty obvious what is going on there

Who's protecting me?

the people voting nacho but calling you scum lmao

[petapan]

i bitched about this type of dynamic to you, i thought you were better than this, i guess not

I'm not really sure what you're referring to, but ok. what exactly r u finding troublesome with the current dynamic
Also dont really like u handwaving away my nacho scumread

~ skitter

nacho is just scum here and i'm baffled that you're townreading him: his read progression makes no sense and he's being blatantly oppurtusnistic and survivalistic,

okay can you run me through this more or give me the cliff notes à la Kismet

- uh his townread of me came out of thin air once other people were townreading me
- the timing of his sircakez read was similarly bad
- at a time that he literally didn't have any scumreads, he kept trying to get notsci to commit to sheeping his reads in a way that looked manipulative/buddy-ish (i.e. capatilizing on the fact that notsci respects town-him's reads even tho he didn't have strong reads to speak of at the time)
- his l/g (now peta) vote looked like he was looking for places to vote
- unvoted just cuz peta repped into the slot and was defending him

like idk i don't see much good here

@peta

i am not handwaving it but i have firsthand experience with scum nacho and he's not like this

but clearly this line of argument isn't going to be effective and i need to get into the details tomorrow

[petapan]

the reminder of pyp (ugh) makse me think infinity is showing a similar stubbornness she did as town there, i probably rushed to judgment

[petapan]

i'm not going to have time for this tonight, i'm sorry

please don't let this get forced through before we get a chance to talk

[petapan]

i'm sorry for taking so long, initial adrenaline of replacing in has worn off and i've been procrastinating. get caught up soon

[petapan]

i'm exhausted from this week and i don't feel great about this (i've re-arranged the middle a couple times) but this is basically where i'm at after looking at everyone

nacho
kismet
disaster cartel
salsabil
infinity
not_mafia
notscience
venus fly trap
the bulge
sircakez
momrangal

[petapan]

i have...thoughts but they're messy

[petapan]

i could spit on any of those but i have no desire to convince you you're scum

[petapan]

i want to talk it over with nacho when he's around

[petapan]

you have actively given me reason to not want to talk to you so i'm not sure why you'd expect that to change

[petapan]

i know these are unpopular opinions i was hoping to start a conversation with nacho when he gets around

[petapan]

i'm still having a hard time seeing a mom-scum nacho-town world here

i feel like literally any other combo is more likely

really?

[petapan]

i don't know, my feeling is for a while scum were scared to hop on nacho lest the voters get cold feet. her actualy content is just bad and like half of what she's talked about is not_mafia

i don't have like a glorious towncase for nacho or anything it just comes down to knowing him and the way he plays and feeling the reasons for scumreading him aren't very good at all

[petapan]

i don't have like a glorious towncase for nacho or anything it just comes down to knowing him and the way he plays and feeling the reasons for scumreading him aren't very good at all

This feels so noncommittal

why would i be noncommittal about the elim i'm defending, shut the hell up

[petapan]

like if your reasoning is meta then link a game?

anything

to make me see what you're seeing

https://www.mafiauniverse.com/forums/th ... Fowl-Mafia

the game ended like literally a couple hours or so before i joined this one, the best way i have to explain it was that he was so bad in that one and i do not get a similar feeling here whatsoever, like i can quote posts and say "this is town" but i can't EXPLAIN it, really

i am hypersensitive to the fact that i didn't listen to you about spiffeh in tenet. maybe that ultimately rolled off your back, but i wanted to bridge that gap in understanding

here you're just not saying anything

i mean, the walls were already closed in then, man, it didn't really matter, you don't gotta feel bummed about that

[petapan]

guess nacho's not showing up

[petapan]

VOTE: nacho


whatever fuck it maybe when people see they're wrong they'll wake up and listen

[petapan]

[petapan]

@ffery, what was the other theme with the VC photos? I didn't figure it out

Day 1 was sort of light-hearted deja-vu related images.

Day 2 was Deja Vu quotes (mostly humorous or ironic)

Day 3 was Deja Vu poetry and art

Day 4 was "fine art" titled "Deja Vu"

If there had been a day 5, it would have been music and cinema that is Deja Vu themed.

When I was putting together the Day 3 VC flavor, I found a poem that I thought would be perfect if Mafia won the game, so I included it in the final flip.

you didn't have that poem prepared in advance of the game? holy crap

[petapan]

not to disrespect my teammates but morning tweet's posts on replace in were literally the best i have ever seen in a game and i feel sad that her efforts were for naught

[petapan]

cakez i know you wanting to catch me is funny memes and all but this aint the game where it gets to happen

AYYYYYYY I FORGOT ABOUT THIS
DEFINITELY GONNA RUB THIS IN PETAS FACE POSTGAME

oh word???

[petapan]

oh, and i was already singing your praises in the dead thread, skitter, but this was an absolutely heroic carry on your part. well done.

would have liked working with you longer but it wasn't in the cards given the state of the slot i inherited. hopefully we can run it back sometime

[petapan]

also like

Subject: Newbie 2033 Mafia PT

Try to ignore adorable as much as possible so I can point to it tomorrow

Subject: Newbie 2033 Mafia PT

okay got it i'll limit it to my one butt-in

but probably, like, throw some questions at me

c'mon how are you gonna fall for that here when i did it to salsa

[petapan]

people have always been bad at scum but i think there's an ebb and flow to these things. looking at topics from 2016-2017 people were bemoaning how bad towns were. i wasn't around then but i assume hyperposting meta was still in place, looking at page counts. did people just get better at playing town? eh. not sure if that's the case.

i think nowadays a lot of people defeat themselves in their heads before the game even starts when they draw scum, out of lack of confidence and/or lack of desire to play the alignment, and that negative mindset leads to poor play which leads to a less exciting and dynamic game

[petapan]

i think putting psychological pressure on yourself to perform can lead to added stress which affects your performance negatively, because if posting feels stressful you aren't going to want to post. that was basically what happened to me in mini normal 2180, then iconeum was like "just have fun" i kind of got into a groove from there, things started going right for us, cakez got yeeted, it was great. of course it's more easy to have fun when you're on a roll

i'm competitive as hell and want to win but i think looking at the game from a perspective where it's something you enjoy, rather than, like, something you have to work at is helpful

[petapan]

Also, thank you all for the feedback, I’m thinking I prob will try to develop the ideas further and post something in mafdisc

I think one interesting thing is that the hyper posting thing ties back to some degree into my argument — I think it’s easier to hyperpost when you’re enjoying things more and that’s not the cause in and of itself for why people don’t like scum. I thought prism’s points were interesting about why he disagrees, but I think the root reason may tie back into what I’m thinking of, or basically that even in games where you’re never going to lose mechanically you still have the consequences of that extending from people generally having played games like that a lot and having had the desire to play scum squeezed out of them. I think this game fits with that to an extent but not because of how the general trend manifested in the scumplayers so much as how it manifested in the townplayers. For instance, bork being basically cleared from early D1, infinity being very difficult to lim, salsa being considered out of scumrange immediately. Like I think you run into a major problem that unless you have a decent number of town players who are considered close in the respective strength of their town/scumgame you have a lot of people who become de facto clears even without mechanical clears. Not sure if I’m explaining this well, but I’ll get into it more in the bigger post to follow

i think this is just a problem with playing with a table where most people have meta on each other, which, for me, no thx. you did see late game as things got bad paranoia turned

i think in general this setup will probably always have a fairly narrow path to victory just by its nature as well but with only a handful of runs who knows