Open 809: Charge Me Up! [Over]

[MiniVirgo]

Apologies, forgot this game started.
I am currently busy working on my website but when I can I will definitely catch up.

Also if we (Mini and myself) ever post without the end-tag please feel free to ask for clarification who that was, I generally am able to remember even if it's way back.

- JV

[MiniVirgo]

You scumread them for... not posting?

Yes. If they avoid the game after a prod, it's for a reason. You seem worried here?

Yessiree is on the town list. Not quite on the VFP block but damn close.

@Raya

can you prod the solo names for MiniVirgo?

If this slot doesn't start producing after that, they're going into the scum pile.

Before I leave again, I saw these and had strong thoughts. You're simply naive if you ever think that's an effective way to read people, tell me why not posting after a prod is more likely to come from scum than from town. Prods are not always effective, and that means nothing of alignment by itself, especially early-game.

And to add further context as to why it's even worse reading into that for us is that Mini never likes day one in games and I am constantly busy working on my websites that I forget about the games until I make a significant effort into catching up.

---

Also off-topic, if you were unaware Mini and I are together and thus I am constantly poking her to post if she doesn't and vice-versa. Our playstyles are opposing as I am more aggressive and she is more distanced in a sense so she feels like she has nothing to add when I post etc. I am clarifying this now in case it comes up later.

- JV

[MiniVirgo]

Spoiler:

I never know how to start

This is probably worthy of a vote right off the bat aha

Day 1 begins. It will end in (expired on 2021-04-24 19:00:00). With 14 alive it takes 8 to eliminate.

***It is strictly forbidden to discuss N0 submissions. You may not discuss the role you chose or the player you chose to charge up***

Oh. I completely missed this rule, definitely have been thinking about how the N0 vote information could be used lol

I point ready to make as soon as Day1 started, but now I need to clear my comment with the mod before I post it

Anyways, RVS VOTE: DkKoba

Why would you need to announce that this is an RVS vote? Just seems like you're not wanting to pull much strings until you get a grasp on the general stance of the Town.

Explain?

My early game specialty is analyzing first votes, my methods only work when there are no pluralities

Plurality as in the voting mechanic?

-- That was answered later ignore that. But what community are you from that uses that terminology?

I have a townlean on Lukewarm since I think the initiative to look for the best mechanical play is a town thought.

I tend to disagree with town-reading anyone just for mechanical thoughts, words mean very little and mechanical thoughts is an easy way for scum to get town-read for pro-town thoughts without solving.

VOTE: flowtrap
Page 1 OMGUS

This is scum RVS posting

N_M I can see as fairly likely Town just from this ngl

not mafia is town

So is koba from this, glad to not be opposing Koba *again* maybe we can get along owo

VFP
Dk
Flow
Flea
Dragon
DMG
NM

Moz
Artemiana
Mini
Yessiree
Green

Lukewarm
ND

Please use grey for the null-reads, yellow is a bitch to read.

VOTE: Lukewarm

[MiniVirgo]

See, my prod request worked.
And I've given Mini a lead to go on.

I'm like a hero to this town.

I would have had a lead regardless
Also that wallpost was from me

- JV

[MiniVirgo]

VFP
Dk
Flow
Flea
Dragon
DMG
NM
Yessiree
Mini

Moz
Artemiana
Green

Lukewarm
ND

I think we just won regardless?

Lukewarm red flip adds Green to VFP block.
Lukewarm Green flip adds Green to scum

My D1 scum team though is
Lukewarm / ND / Artemiana

Can you explain these in depth?

- JV

[MiniVirgo]

i think my posts have been pretty clear

same issue as with your first posts tbh. You're saying things but I don't know why and I don't understand what you get from it. What are your reads atm?

Dkoba - town
Lukewarm - town
N_M - town

Green Crayons - lean town
yessiree - lean town
NDMath - lean town

Flea - ???
mozamis - ???
Artemiana - ???
flow trap - ???

VFP - null

MiniVirgo - scum
DMG - scum

happy to elaborate on these

Yes please elaborate

- JV

[MiniVirgo]

I forgot this game existed for a while

- Mini

[MiniVirgo]

Dark Magician Girl

i hate this post:

how serious is that vote ^

this is a pretty weird post to drop then just leave

it's mostly a gut read at this point but i just have trouble getting over that. why give someone no time to answer before throwing shade on them? I hadn't posted yet so there's no way for them to know i wasn't going to come back to it.

MiniVirgo

my problem with the slot is they come into the game with what's basically an OMGUS against VFP for calling them out. it makes me uncomfy.

Before I leave again, I saw these and had strong thoughts. You're simply naive if you ever think that's an effective way to read people, tell me why not posting after a prod is more likely to come from scum than from town. Prods are not always effective, and that means nothing of alignment by itself, especially early-game.

And to add further context as to why it's even worse reading into that for us is that Mini never likes day one in games and I am constantly busy working on my websites that I forget about the games until I make a significant effort into catching up.

I use my gut a lot, especially d1. having trouble reading people so far but i'm willing to trust it until something better comes along.

First of all, regardless of the fact it wasn't, OMGUS isn't a only-scum trait. The reason I voted them was because they were weakly scum-reading someone who hasn't posted yet and I cannot stand that, it's as if they were too scared to push someone actually posting so they picked on someone that wasn't.

- JV

[MiniVirgo]

Can you explain these in depth?

No, sorry.
Is there a particular read you think is wrong?

Why not?
I think it's concerning how many TRs you have.

- JV

[MiniVirgo]

Should we lim Wooper?

What’s your reasons for this? It’s a bit strange you just want to lim someone like that

[MiniVirgo]

are these posts jokes? I can't tell exactly cause you're humor if so is so dry lmao

What answer makes me more town?

Why would you need to know? Just answer honestly

[MiniVirgo]

are these posts jokes? I can't tell exactly cause you're humor if so is so dry lmao

What answer makes me more town?

I dont feel the need to justify all my reads this early.

That may be how you feel but that could also be a way for scum to throw reads pure and get out of justifying or giving reason for them

[MiniVirgo]

I think Dragons just made the VFP town block.
Scum going to be at a panic wanting to break this now.

VFP
Dk
Flow
Flea
Dragon
DMG

That’s a big town block which is concerning

[MiniVirgo]

VFP
Dk
Flow
Flea
Dragon
DMG
NM

Moz
Artemiana
Mini
Yessiree
Green

Lukewarm
ND

Having half the game as town?? How can you know this unless you know because you’re scum

[MiniVirgo]

Okay so I just realised that I haven’t been putting it from me in all my posts so all in tagged posts are mine

- Mini

[MiniVirgo]

That’s a big town block which is concerning

This is the updated one.

VFP
Dk
Flow
Flea
Dragon
DMG
NM
Yessiree
Mini

Putting our slot in there doesn’t make it not concerning

[MiniVirgo]

Fucking hell I forgot again above post was me

- Mini

[MiniVirgo]

Putting our slot in there doesn’t make it not concerning

Of course it does.
As I said, follow me and the game is a win.

I’m not just gonna follow someone in a game of mafia that’s just wrong

[MiniVirgo]

Putting our slot in there doesn’t make it not concerning

Of course it does.
As I said, follow me and the game is a win.

I’m not just gonna follow someone in a game of mafia that’s just wrong

-Mini

[MiniVirgo]

Prodging for an hour or two, am busy at the moment is all and Mini is working

- JV

[MiniVirgo]

adjitated

agitated

ahdjyataiteed

[MiniVirgo]

UNVOTE: minivirgo wanna give this game a good think in the morning

May I ask why you unvoted here? You said you'd give it a good think so you should have an answer by the time you get back

- JV

[MiniVirgo]

Furthermore, I am really glad that I choose VFP for the person when I chose someone to day I was going to blindly follow, because it appears to be the first thing to make them post a well reasoned post lol.

Look at mini trying to have a conversation with them. (a joint mini + vfp iso, starting with post 254 through post 283). No matter how hard mini tried to engage them, vfp gave nothing to work with.

Of vfp's post 323 in response to mozamis.

Everytime someone has tried to seriously engage with them, vfp has avoided proper engagement. But then when I said I was blindingly following them they made this :

so now that we have progressed a little - how do people feel about no limming so PRs can do their thing and investigatives can potentially give us some juicy info?

I love this idea.

On a side note. I actually liked ND's response there.
Lukewarm however, that was a bad response. Not only are they trying to push me off to another target by calling to my ego and complimenting my block but to act naive and to try and say that ND wasn't on the list when it's very clear I had them marked as red.
It's either Lukewarm not reading the game or trying to pull the wool over my eyes.
ND is the easier target for Lukewarm to push me towards given how my reads were.

Anything outside of a No lim should be Lukewarm.
But DK has spoken!

An actual post, with reasonings that can be analyze, huzzah

Yeah I don't think this is scum anymore, I think this logic is valid enough for me to give them a shot.
This is assuming I am voting Lukewarm which 1) I think I am and 2) Mini didn't snipe a vote away.|

Although when I say this, I think the target of VJP (or whatever their name) is not scum either, just because they're acting reckless.

UNVOTE: Lukewarm

- JV

[MiniVirgo]

@Lukewarm

- Do you think Mini is town?

Do you have a reason to ask this

- JV

[MiniVirgo]

DMG is officially removed from the VFP block.
So we now have an opening.

Can you explain your fucking reads

[MiniVirgo]

VOTE: dmg

Am I just not seeing why they're scum from these recent posts?

-JV

[MiniVirgo]

noted here that after i change my vote off you push your vote off soon after -> this is indicative of being partners if lukewarm ever flips red.

Is this your personal note for later? I don't fully understand what you're saying except saying that you think I am scum with Luke

- JV

[MiniVirgo]

i think my posts have been pretty clear

same issue as with your first posts tbh. You're saying things but I don't know why and I don't understand what you get from it. What are your reads atm?

Dkoba - town
Lukewarm - town
N_M - town

Green Crayons - lean town
yessiree - lean town
NDMath - lean town

Flea - ???
mozamis - ???
Artemiana - ???
flow trap - ???

VFP - null

MiniVirgo - scum
DMG - scum

happy to elaborate on these

Yes please elaborate

- JV

may i ask a question before i do (will get to this soon)

is there anything you wished elaboration on, or did you just want me to elaborate for the sake of elaboration?

On as much as you can elaborate on, if you're willing to elaborate so much so that you say you will. Then do so by default

- JV

[MiniVirgo]

let's unpack this

i didn't say "it IS an OMGUS, therefore scum." just that it makes me wary.

besides that, it looks like VFP has reads on people who aren't you, so I'm not sure your second part applies?

You say it's OMGUS and that makes you uncomfortable, and then vote me in the next few posts and you seriously expect me to assume that you mean that it's OMGUS which is seperate from the reason I am voting you because I think you're scum.

- JV

[MiniVirgo]

Can you explain these in depth?

No, sorry.
Is there a particular read you think is wrong?

Why not?
I think it's concerning how many TRs you have.

- JV

why would it be concerning how many TRs they have? it's an odd thing to say, or are you insinuating that it's scum!ai for them to hand out this many TRs?

Because I have never seen Town have that many town-reads this early in a game ever, so to me it's either they ultimate level cocky and thus is almost always going to be wrong or they're scum that is finding it hard to fabricate valid-looking scum-reads without the backlash

pedit: Glad this post didn't get yeeted from the site being down
- JV.

[MiniVirgo]

actually tbh i just straight think JV might be scum here LMFAO they havent towntold at all

Didn't think there was a higher power that made every town do town-telling.

- JV

[MiniVirgo]

actually tbh i just straight think JV might be scum here LMFAO they havent towntold at all

Didn't think there was a higher power that made every town do town-telling.

- JV

this is literally how i caught u as scum last time but ok

And? One game doesn't make a reliable way to scum-read me, that's actually called statistical bias.

[MiniVirgo]

You use meta to SR me and say you don't need to learn how meta works when you're using it wrong. Alrighty then, just remembered why I didn't like you.

Also experience does not mean skill, obviously so considering you.

[MiniVirgo]

i do have skill and i dont feel the need to prove it with games - the fact i could case you d1 in a game easily is plenty enough to show that you that. you lost to me twice just accept it.

Fuck right off, you think you're so high and mighty so much so that you think you know how the fuck I play when you simply don't.

And watch me flip Town now and prove to you that your reads are as fucking garbage as yourself. Get off your fucking high horse if you ever want to actually improve instead of thinking you are.

- JV

[MiniVirgo]

i do have skill and i dont feel the need to prove it with games - the fact i could case you d1 in a game easily is plenty enough to show that you that. you lost to me twice just accept it.

im tired and cant spell - yall get the gist. i wanna have a clean game so knock it off jackson, I already ate a ban for getting heated in a game and wanna continue improving myself to not say banworthy stuff - but that requires my fellow players not to make provoking comments like these that tick me off.

if you have a negative record against someone with a sample size of over 1 game you shouldn't be questioning their skill

You're asking me to knock it off when you're the one that started attacking my own skill so how cheap are you.

[MiniVirgo]

VOTE: MiniVirgo

[MiniVirgo]

This game was a mistake, should have known it would have been shit with you in it

[MiniVirgo]

actually tbh i just straight think JV might be scum here LMFAO they havent towntold at all

actually tbh i just straight think JV might be scum here LMFAO they havent towntold at all

Didn't think there was a higher power that made every town do town-telling.

- JV

this is literally how i caught u as scum last time but ok

ok cool ive played thousands of mafia games i dont need your fake lecture on how to adopt meta into my reads

[MiniVirgo]

Scum-slipped my fucking ass

[MiniVirgo]

You're so fucking confident I am scum here, I hope you take a real good look at yourself after I die.

- JV

[MiniVirgo]

@Flea why are you deciding to label that as a policy?
Also what are we at?
- JV

[MiniVirgo]

Can you explain your fucking reads

Which one?

All of them, how hard is this?

-JV

[MiniVirgo]

@Mini give yourself an unvote, give me 3 names and I'll tell you exactly where I have them and why.

I shouldn't have to push and prod this much for your reads at all

- JV

[MiniVirgo]

or, like, more generally. the blow up feels forced but idk if this is just how jv exists.

Forced or not, its NAI.

disagree

i used a similar "get exasperated and super defensive" response to koba's suspicions as scum

if jv doesn't usually act this way, then what's the reason here?

I am mainly pissed off at Koba. I called them out one game as scum, nobody believed a word I said and then they won the game.

The second game I was scum, in a coalition game. Got into the coalition and then get yeeted as a purposeful play to have my buddy, who was also in the coalition more cred.

And according to those games, I am scum in this one. Which is literally the most stupid use of meta I have ever seen in my life.

- JV

[MiniVirgo]

Also I fucking can't stand them as a person so there's that.

[MiniVirgo]

All of them, how hard is this?

Okay when I'm at my PC ill tell you each read (3 hours odd)
For now unvote yourself.

If you want a discussion in the mean time then pock your topic.

I don't want to even touch this game for tonight as I'm pissed so we can discuss when I get back tomorrow, hope you have those reads ready by then.

UNVOTE:

[MiniVirgo]

Maybe we should re-kick start the discussion using the never before seen (and therefore never before wrong) Lukewarm Town Block™

Lukewarm
VFP
Dkkoba
Flow Trap
Save the Dragon
Green
Flea the Magician

Not Mafia
Moz
Artemiana
Mini
Yessiree

ND

OR

Dark Magician Girl

(but not both)

MiniVirgo

Spoiler:

Read logic not included

Why do you have our slot there twice?

- Mini

[MiniVirgo]

K I'm bored guess it's time to actually start reading people

I mean that is what you should be doing in this game. If you are town you should have been doing this already

[MiniVirgo]

im actively posting more to avoid suspicion yeah

What was the need to say this

- Mini

[MiniVirgo]

i just recently played a game where i caught scum crayons fairly early and i dont get quite the same vibe here

Just because you dont get the same vibe in this gamer to other games about players doesnt really prove much anything could happen so dont get too caught up in the meta side of reading people

- Mini

[MiniVirgo]

UNVOTE: minivirgo wanna give this game a good think in the morning

What made you want to rethink and what was your outcome?

- Mini

[MiniVirgo]

Spoiler:

u ever like

look at the playerlist and be like

"hmm i cant like find 3 scum here"

and like its concerning ?


thats what im feeling rn

thats why im gonna just yolo vote here: VOTE: artemania

and for now i will relax .

Furthermore, I am really glad that I choose VFP for the person when I chose someone to day I was going to blindly follow, because it appears to be the first thing to make them post a well reasoned post lol.

Look at mini trying to have a conversation with them. (a joint mini + vfp iso, starting with post 254 through post 283). No matter how hard mini tried to engage them, vfp gave nothing to work with.

Of vfp's post 323 in response to mozamis.

Everytime someone has tried to seriously engage with them, vfp has avoided proper engagement. But then when I said I was blindingly following them they made this :

so now that we have progressed a little - how do people feel about no limming so PRs can do their thing and investigatives can potentially give us some juicy info?

I love this idea.

On a side note. I actually liked ND's response there.
Lukewarm however, that was a bad response. Not only are they trying to push me off to another target by calling to my ego and complimenting my block but to act naive and to try and say that ND wasn't on the list when it's very clear I had them marked as red.
It's either Lukewarm not reading the game or trying to pull the wool over my eyes.
ND is the easier target for Lukewarm to push me towards given how my reads were.

Anything outside of a No lim should be Lukewarm.
But DK has spoken!

An actual post, with reasonings that can be analyze, huzzah

Yeah I don't think this is scum anymore, I think this logic is valid enough for me to give them a shot.
This is assuming I am voting Lukewarm which 1) I think I am and 2) Mini didn't snipe a vote away.|

Although when I say this, I think the target of VJP (or whatever their name) is not scum either, just because they're acting reckless.

UNVOTE: Lukewarm

- JV

oted here that after i change my vote off you push your vote off soon after -> this is indicative of being partners if lukewarm ever flips red.

What on earth were you going on about here? Ive quoted where you changed your vote and where we unvoted... and there really is no issue as the unvote from us was based on a change of read and you changed based on the fact you cant find scum

[MiniVirgo]

actually tbh i just straight think JV might be scum here LMFAO they havent towntold at all

Who has?

- Mini (the last one was from me too)

[MiniVirgo]

actually tbh i just straight think JV might be scum here LMFAO they havent towntold at all

Didn't think there was a higher power that made every town do town-telling.

- JV

this is literally how i caught u as scum last time but ok

Again dont get too caught up in the meta side of things it really isnt that reliable

- Mini

[MiniVirgo]

i do have skill and i dont feel the need to prove it with games - the fact i could case you d1 in a game easily is plenty enough to show that you that. you lost to me twice just accept it.

Okay so because you seem so sure on us being scum, lets look into the future a bit.

When we flip town what will be your thoughts? Where would you go next because to me it seems you are too focused on our slot to look at anyone else

- Mini

[MiniVirgo]

gamestate manipulation is my favorite part of the game

Well if this isnt scum I dont know what is

- Mini

[MiniVirgo]

K I'm bored guess it's time to actually start reading people

I mean that is what you should be doing in this game. If you are town you should have been doing this already

That is literally not the only thing Town does

No but Town should be doing it regardless

[MiniVirgo]

what gives you the impression that Mini is making this SvT over TvT?

I feel like I have been clear on this. Quite simply, I am trying to make Mini's reaction make

ANY

sense to me.

I went and hunted down the koba / virgo game that they played together, and you know how that game played out? Virgo, as mafia, getting voted out day 1 because Koba scum read them.

If it is a TvT interaction, then I cannot make Mini's reaction make any sense to me. If they are town, being scum read by koba, then what is the big deal, right? Town should not be that upset over a scum read on them on Day 1. I mean most games start with a town elimination on Day 1, can you imagine if that is how town reacts to that? Even in light of their prior game history, if koba is now misreading them, then Virgo can become self assured that koba's read on them in the prior game was a fluke.

If it is a SvT interaction, then Virgo's reaction makes more sense to me. Unlike Town, scum should be more upset at being scum read day 1 in general, because that means they are failing at their main goal. And then if you add in the game history, suddenly Virgo is thinking that there is a possibility of them being voted out Day 1, as scum, twice because of a Koba's read on them. Then suddenly, their reaction (while still unacceptable) make a little bit of sense.

So my options on how to read Virgo were as follows:
1) Despite being fairly experienced with Mafia, they are very upset by the idea of being scum read as town on Day 1
2) Their pride was wounded by being correctly scum read by Koba on day 1, two games in a row.

Option 2 is the only option that makes Virgo's eruption come anywhere close to making sense to me (and even then is unacceptable)

Let me say this again. In that game where I was scum, my elimination was the plan BECAUSE of the setup. It's a setup where Town can choose 5 people D1, if they're all Town. Town wins, otherwise game goes on.

Both my buddy and myself got into that group of 5, and my plan was to look scummy enough AFTER that to get eliminated so my buddy has a >rand chance of winning the game. Just from hindsight I most definitely could have played that better if I wanted to survive that, but I didn't, so I didn't.

---

Also more clarification about those points.
1) I am not upset about the idea I am being scum-read, it happens in most games as it's natural. I couldn't care less, the fact that I am being scum-read for something which is clearly wrong yet the person is sticking hard to it is what gives me the shits.
2) Here you are assuming I am scum here again, making this whole point get thrown out of the window because that's relative to information you shouldn't have. Make this post-flip and it'll be wrong.

- JV

[MiniVirgo]

virgo has lost to me as both town and scum lol

Objectively, yes.

But in Bending I have both you and FL as conf-scum at least to me, but I couldn't express that well enough. Also I still can't get over how FL wasn't eliminated after you, if memory serves me correctly that's how it went.

In Coalition, I've said this many times and even check the dead/mafia PT's. I died there on purpose but overall lost the game.

Now check out my other scum games, both wins and losses and I am almost certain you'll find that it's different than me here and different than in the Coalition.

- JV

[MiniVirgo]

oh hahaha i actually early pushed him there as scum nvm, i remember the pocket because that was my goal to push them down bc i could feel them being a thorn for my team and went for discred but also wanted to get them MLed by letting them drive MLs too xD

I was so pissed off that you kept doing this and nobody saw it lmfao

- JV