Mini Normal 2207 | The End

[VP Baltar]

7 pages while I slept? This is not going to be good.

VOTE: Datisi

[VP Baltar]

Also, fair warning to everyone, I definitely will struggle at this pace of a game. I'm super overloaded at work right now.

[VP Baltar]

i can try to shut the fuck up for a while if it'll make the game easier to follow/play for other people
i use this site to procrastinate anyway, i should probably stop doing that

Don't change your game for me. I'll get by. I am mostly just aware of my workload dramatically escalating since I told you I wanted to play another game with you, and that I basically only signed up because I like everyone in this game. I'll do my best to still be up to date.

[VP Baltar]

Ok, I'm caught up.

Gera is obv town, as most people stated, so people reading that seem NAI except maybe some town points to Ico, who I think was the first person to strongly state that.

Datisi's gypyx case isn't ~terrible~, but I'd like to see more from gypyx since I have never played with them before.

I was kind of getting Norwee scum vibes, but I believe them saying they are in a shitty mood and that could be clouding my read.

IV feels like town given he is putting his foot in his mouth consistently and not caring. Pretty loose play for a speedy day one if he is scum.

UNVOTE:

Tl;Dr - I didn't get a ton out of those pages you spammy spammers!

[VP Baltar]

Luca's vote is lame

[VP Baltar]

VP Baltar do you have multiple accs or is this our first time?

First time! I only play on this account

[VP Baltar]

VP Baltar do you have multiple accs or is this our first time?

First time! I only play on this account

Hm. Felt like you treated me somehow familiarly, but it’s really the first time huh?

How did I treat you familiarly beyond shortening your name...which is because I'm lazy

[VP Baltar]

Geraint's day 1 hating posts are interesting so far, It kinda reads like... Newbie posts complaining about the game? I know Geraint is far from a newbie though, so I'm conflicted on it. I think the transparency on this is town. I don't see scum acting in such a way when the usual scum energy is ~~look i'm so calm relaxed and funny haha~~

More hedges than a landscapers convention

[VP Baltar]

@baltar, (1) why did you unvote, (2) without revoting anyone?

I don't have anything that feels like a scum read yet I want to pressure, and we are firmly playing THE GAME now.

I'll have a vote soon enough. Probably after at least everyone has posted.

[VP Baltar]

can you really not see it? it's like when you open the curtains at noon and the sun shining down at you unobscured by any clouds

do i need to point out to you where the sun is if you do that? of course not

that's george

Are you a malarkey poster? This sounds like malarkey

[VP Baltar]

funny how everyone has checked in except for the least active poster and most active poster

What are you implying from this? A connection between these folks?

[VP Baltar]

VOTE: VP Baltar
His postings just felt agenda based so far.
219 in particular.

I'm not following how me calling out a heavily hedged post from George Bailey is having an agenda.

[VP Baltar]

204 too kinda.

(Pls link posts at least so I don't need to search)

Again, why is stating an opinion = having an agenda?

[VP Baltar]

VP Baltar do you have multiple accs or is this our first time?

First time! I only play on this account

Hm. Felt like you treated me somehow familiarly, but it’s really the first time huh?

How did I treat you familiarly beyond shortening your name...which is because I'm lazy

Also, did you answer this?

[VP Baltar]

It just feels like you're stating a lot of things and not doing much with it.

Idk, I think I've been pretty clear how I felt on what's happened so far. I'm not really the type of person who tries to leverage tiny things into more than they are.

Despite this many pages, there are pretty minimal events. Do you disagree with that?

[VP Baltar]

VOTE: Luca

No thanks.

[VP Baltar]

Calling town reads quick on folks who might be argumentative and calling IV scum when he's being silly, plus OMGUSing slightly cause I poked him.

Sounds like Luca is scumming it up on the path of least resistance over there.

[VP Baltar]

also how can in his right mind think our town saviour and leader George could be wolf?

I still don't quite understand what you're seeing in George's play that is super town. Can you give me something more concrete than the sunshine metaphor?

[VP Baltar]

okay i have a read on Luca but maybe don't really have an opinion on the wagon

Is it a wagon? There are two votes there.

[VP Baltar]

bb wag

[VP Baltar]

I have lots of experience with Datisi as well. It is too early to tell his alignment.

Repeating a point from Norwegian about me (which is very eh to begin with) is definitely in line with OMGUS.

[VP Baltar]

I'm glad I'm stealing Ico pagetops though.

[VP Baltar]

You’re really stretching the meaning of ‘Omgus’ there

I stated your vote was bad, and suddenly I'm on your scum list a short time later. Not sure what definition they taught you in scumhunting school....

[VP Baltar]

It’s not too early to get an idea of his alignment

Do you consider Datisi a good player as either alignment?

[VP Baltar]

Follow up, what have you seen from Datisi that is not fakeable as scum?

[VP Baltar]

What has IV done so far that isn’t fakeable?

Not that it's not fakeable, it's just extremely suboptimal play as scum. I mean, I don't think wide groups of people are townreading him at this point.

He is fine drawing attention, some of it negative, and that's less likely to come from scum

[VP Baltar]

I’m on holiday and don’t feel like doing detailed analysis rn

That's fine. You should enjoy your holiday. This can wait

[VP Baltar]

i am not trying to sort your alignment, in fact

but i might try later

oh i could tunnel VP Baltar too that's also fun

never tried that one before

VOTE: VP Baltar

i would love to know why you think datisi is town

but you don't have to tell it's ok, i don't plan on giving my datisi thoughts anytime soon soooo yea

i would love to know why you think datisi is town

but you don't have to tell it's ok, i don't plan on giving my datisi thoughts anytime soon soooo yea

i think you're trying to gauge my reaction to "read" me and see just how pissed off i get at this, and i'd appreciate if you didn't do that ¬_¬

hmmmm is it pissing you off then?

can you really not see it? it's like when you open the curtains at noon and the sun shining down at you unobscured by any clouds

do i need to point out to you where the sun is if you do that? of course not

that's george

im blind sorry

can you do me a quick comparison between this and George in Newbie 2058?

funny how everyone has checked in except for the least active poster and most active poster

What are you implying from this? A connection between these folks?

yes, they are lovers

Stuff like this is just kind of goofy to me and would potentially draw unwanted confrontation as scum

[VP Baltar]

i think people were asking me earlier why George was town

it was this post of his earlier that just made me really sure in his divine towniness:

You're not answering the question of why though...

[VP Baltar]

i feel like he shouldn't be dead null on me still?

Why? You're gonna have to build trust with me after I went easy on you last game. Clearly the things I find town from your playstyle are fakeable, so I think I have every right to be skeptical of my ability there, yeah?

[VP Baltar]

this is an odd sequence b

if I was on at this point I would have been like "O good catch let's yeet gypux" but alas I missed the fun so you get post-fun edgy wooper

my natural counterpoint is that it's an odd sequence because we are human beings/pokemon and human beings are odd human beings and gypux's flip didn't strike me as scummy because I wouldn't have really expected anyone to feel very attached to feelings from pg. 1-2 of this game! th y were very unexciting pages. maybe Gypyx is town for not pretending to have an opinion for clout points. I don't think this is really a scum tell and I'm not sure why you're identifying flipping as scum indicative here and then backing down liek "oh I suppose I can't read Gypyx aha"

I guess I'm not following what changed for you between then and now on Gypyx. You say you would have found it scummy in the moment, and then give some slight town points on it. I'm confused.

[VP Baltar]

Can the next 3 ppl to check in pls explains why they are not talking about how George is scum or like what they think of Anya or something

I mostly want George to post more. I also didn't like that post, but he should get in the thread and give some commentary. Failing that, I'm not opposed to a George yeet.

I have similar vibes from Anya as you...perhaps aloof town. I have another possible theory there, but I'm not diving too far into that tinfoil yet. Still want Anya to ELI5 why George is town for that post.

[VP Baltar]

i don't remember last time i played with VP

[VP Baltar]

I like everyone in this game

famous last words

You may be correct, dragon.

Luca literally said the same later but ok.

I don’t see why Luca having those reads is scummy, i’ve had the same reads up to this point.

Maybe Luca could be trying to pocket if my reads are bad, but i’m inclined to believe i’m correct.

That's sort of the exact point I'm making.

In fairness, he could just be putting out some lazy reads because he is chilling on a beach somewhere. That will sort itself out when his holiday is over. But for now, I find his reads a bit too in line with the goal of not rocking the boat with verbose players.

[VP Baltar]

i feel like he shouldn't be dead null on me still?

Why? You're gonna have to build trust with me after I went easy on you last game. Clearly the things I find town from your playstyle are fakeable, so I think I have every right to be skeptical of my ability there, yeah?

i explained why literally right after that sentence. my own feelings are that my game here is *already* different enough for you to pick up on it and/or at least not have me as dead null. this however comes with the caveat that i'm aware i am potentially being unfair here because, again, i cannot read myself objectively.

I'm not saying there aren't differences. But but but...I'd expect you to make alterations if you DID happen to draw scum with me again.

For example, a big tell you did drop in that game was just never really pushing on me. (In some ways, I don't want to say this aloud, but I'm sure you know already). I can see you aren't doing that here, but I'm WIFOMing myself that perhaps you wouldn't do that again. FWIW, nothing about you this game has pinged me on a gut level as bad yet, which is a good sign. I did have some of those pings last game and I stupidly dismissed them as my own paranoia.

I do think I'll be able to sort you, but I expect it will take me a bit longer this time around.

[VP Baltar]

I’m seeing a lot of comments that George’s post is either +town or +scum and i’d just like for someone to actually elaborate why?

His catch up post didn't stake many positions. He gave both sides to a lot of interactions....which is scummy. It's a way of catching up that allows you to pivot with the herd as needed.

That was my take.

[VP Baltar]

so what's the reason for you shutting down luca's townread of me then? @vp obviously

Because you are a good player, which he knows, and the better a player is, the more time you should probably take to be sure you're sorting them correctly.

You are always interested in getting other players to town read you, so he could be playing off that bit of your personality.

I don't think characterizing it as me "shutting him down" is really accurate. I'm just calling it kind of a bullshit read from my perspective. If he wants to stick with it based on what little content is in this game, that's his choice.

[VP Baltar]

ico - idk lol feels like town!ico. the "mindmeld" on gypyx / calling me town for the "case" could've been fake but like. idk. i'm kinda weirded out by the fact that he had "no read" on the three norwee mentioned, but also? i don't know he can sit here for now.

I'm actually surprised you're placing Ico so high considering last time I saw you together, you got snowed pretty bad.

Maybe I get overly paranoid when people trick me!

[VP Baltar]

Page top. VP is moving up the scoreboard

[VP Baltar]

I'm actually surprised you're placing Ico so high considering last time I saw you together, you got snowed pretty bad.

lol WHO got snowed? you mean that game where he didn't even post day 1, on day 2 i backed off of him because he was softing mason, i said if cakez flipped green that ico is scum, and then he panic killed *me* night 2, even though you were literal conftown? good one

I mean, maybe I'm misremembering. I thought you were calling him town that game?

[VP Baltar]

God, that game was such a shit show

[VP Baltar]

that's why i had said if cakez had flipped town that ico is scum, there wouldn't have been room for the masons aaaaaaaaaagh

Yeah. I wish I had caught that after you were dead.

Anyhow, not trying to bring up old wounds. I forgot that part, so that makes a little more sense on your read this game being less skeptical.

[VP Baltar]

i think ive been misunderstanding the y axis of your triangle, im surprised NM is at the top and not the bottom with GB

like i thought top was "omg lot of stuff, very conflicted being pulled in multiple directions" and null was "bleh null no content"

I think the Y axis is confidence level in the read

[VP Baltar]

I’ve always been able to read them correctly in previous games, although sometimes it takes a bit of time

How confident are you in your Datisi town read currently?

[VP Baltar]

VOTE: Alice

Starting to feel IV might be Town

Wasn't I next on your scum list behind IV?

Why the Alice vote?

[VP Baltar]

Yikes

[VP Baltar]

Alice, are you an alt?

[VP Baltar]

beaing lowkey mean to me

Lol what!

I am fucking sugar and spice all day! How rude

[VP Baltar]

i'm not sober rn and i'm feeling kinda effort-y does anyone want my shitty opinions of things

I'm avoiding my job duties rn (slip), let's go

[VP Baltar]

it's implying i shouldn't have done that
in a lowkey mean way
like not Actually mean way
but l o w k e y
like lowkey trying to get me to agree with you and agree that i was wrong

does any of tht make any sense my god i don't think it does

You've had too much to think, I'd say

[VP Baltar]

PAGE TOP MFER

[VP Baltar]

also i should come clean and say i have no read on george and i just felt bad for brutally executing him when he was town in another game so was pretending to townread him

Haha, what?

[VP Baltar]

I literally though Anya had information about GB's role as the only explanation for her weirdness.

Now I don't even know.

Anya, can we get some takes on non-GB people

[VP Baltar]

You've had too much to think, I'd say

also you're doing it again
you're making it as if my opinion is SILLY and NOT WORTH CONSIDERING so that i change my mind and not figure out what a fucking scumfuck you are

Haha ok. I'm wizard of oz over here

[VP Baltar]

but both of us have been paranoid as town of town!him in 2180 and Jungle trying to pocket us. i remember him saying it had to do with the poise with which he writes since he works in journalism or something idk

I mean, that's just me speculating. People say I'm manipulative in like literally every game, and I'm just being me. I don't know what it is. I think just writing in a clear and easy to follow way makes people think there is subtext, or something?

[VP Baltar]

Haha ok. I'm wizard of oz over here

s c u m f u c k

I wish! I want that revenge on you

[VP Baltar]

i walked down to the beach

the moonlight on the water is really pretty

That sounds nice!

[VP Baltar]

Anya, can we get some takes on non-GB people

[VP Baltar]

Alice, are you an alt?

[VP Baltar]

Crushing it

[VP Baltar]

"non-GB people"

Who is of interest to you? Is anyone scum?

[VP Baltar]

I like wooper

[VP Baltar]

Ico, since I don't get to talk to you in real time, I'd be interested in your takes on me, Anya, Alice, and IV.

[VP Baltar]

I 95% hate Wooper's posts.

I didn't think geraintm's takes could get worse, and yet here we are.

[VP Baltar]

Alice, are you an alt?

Alice, are you an alt?

Nope.

Any follow-up on this, Baltar?

I was trying to figure out if I should give Alice a little noob leeway. They could be lying to me about being an alt, but if telling the truth, it dampens how scummy I saw Alice's play initially.

[VP Baltar]

Has George seriously not posted yet?

they posted. it was a fairly half decent post. sure they only have 2 but better that than 97 that don't actually mean anything. they posted on wednesday, they haven't been posting elsewhere whilst ignoring here. their level of activity is fine

Why are you speaking up for George?

[VP Baltar]

also @you and @Ico @anyone else what cares, why is Norway town? quoting past posts is fine

Plus town points to IV here.

I was just thinking as I'm catching up from the overnight pages: "Where the hell is Norway? He was very active early on and then faded into the background once the game actually got rolling."

[VP Baltar]

I 95% hate Wooper's posts.

I didn't think geraintm's takes could get worse, and yet here we are.

what makes wooper town to you?

I'm not sure I have him as solid town yet, though I have been nodding along a bit with some of his points. I just find his posting style humorous and enjoyable.

[VP Baltar]

Ok, so I'm caught up.

Biggest thing worth commenting on is Ico-Datisi scuffle.

On the one hand, I'm not as paranoid as Datisi about the Y-3 stuff. I get where it is coming from, but also it seems slightly overstated as a threat. Not Mafia could quick hammer, or he could let things roll. It's a wildcard. So, I can see Ico wanting to say chill out.

THAT BEING SAID, I actually find Ico to be more scummy in that exchange...though it is less about Datisi. I actually don't like the dragon trying to prod along an Alice yeet on paper thin reasons. Like, the statement about Alice having thin reads and that being textbook mafia....that's a pretty crappy attack on someone who could just be noobing it up. Saying 'rah rah, let's yeet Alice quick!' when she is widely scum read comes across as opportunistic to me.

It could be that Ico was just applying real pressure there. I know Ico is good at pressuring people. But part of me is really reading that exchange as agenda driven and I don't like it.

[VP Baltar]

if that's where you're at in your catchup you're not gonna like my next post Baltar

Hit me with it

[VP Baltar]

I’m working a FULL TIME JOB. Dealing with children.

That's no way to talk about your coworkers

[VP Baltar]

I’m working at a school i meant the actual children.

I was joking. So this is a new job? Congrats

What is the way to determine your alignment this game?

[VP Baltar]

if i was placing a vote for person i wanted gone most, it would be them

Can I ask you to please just vote for who you want gone most? It is actually not helpful to only vote the top wagon. It hurts VC analysis later.

[VP Baltar]

isn't that... the exact reason to be worried? that NM and geraint together have a very sizable chance of taking a Y-2 slot to Y-0?

I think the concern is fair, but likely overstated. NM hasn't been moving his vote around at all yet and may not be reading the game much.

He said himself he wouldnt quick hammer. Thin promise, I know, but it is something.

Hey Not Mafia, you mind voting someone other than yourself right now?

[VP Baltar]

am i the only one who's getting the feeling that gypyx's tone feels awfully forced this game?

i'm not instantly scumbinning it because i've seen scum!gypyx and he's capable of not speaking in a way that seems this forced (and i don't exactly remember seeing such tone in his towngames either, though a bit more difficult to say from memory bc i was always scum in those) but i'm curious if anyone else is getting the same impression?

I wouldn't say forced so much as lacking any real conviction about what is happening. Still processing how I'm reading that

[VP Baltar]

wawrarirar!

Oh hells yeah.

You scum?

[VP Baltar]

But too scared to post in thread while drunk. That's a bad sign

[VP Baltar]

@baltar, opinon on luca? on his townblocc?

That town bloc is gonna be a no from me dawg, right now.

I'm not sold on town Norwee or Luca yet.

[VP Baltar]

As far as opinion on Luca, I don't think a lot has shifted. Waiting to see more substance. Fine with my vote there for the time being.

[VP Baltar]

N_M is not doing much in this game.... Is it typical for him? I will likely go through player list later and post more elaborative reads.

He will do nothing all game.

[VP Baltar]

if i was placing a vote for person i wanted gone most, it would be them

Can I ask you to please just vote for who you want gone most? It is actually not helpful to only vote the top wagon. It hurts VC analysis later.

nope, tried that. people would vote me off for that for being scummy.

Literally everyone says you're obv town. You're not going to get yeeted D1. Do you want us to feel sorry for you?

[VP Baltar]

As far as opinion on Luca, I don't think a lot has shifted. Waiting to see more substance. Fine with my vote there for the time being.

I don’t know what more you’re expecting rn tbh

Why do you scumread me again?

Because you've given very mainstream opinions on events that avoid getting into disagreements with verbose players.

In fairness, I should ISO you today and see if that still holds because I'm struggling to remember your opinions since early game.

[VP Baltar]

How dare you

Well I got you here for THAT at least

[VP Baltar]

objectively speaking, that post from george is a dumpster fire

but there is something in me saying to pause on murdering him for now, and i'm not quite sure what that is

Would be interested in more articulation here.

Also, George, do you sometimes lurk games? You struggling to keep up this game? What's going on and why are you such a non presence?

[VP Baltar]

Just to clarify, who are the ‘verbose players’ you’re referring to?

It was Datisi and Norwee at the time.

Like, you can go look at my post about this.

As far as expectations, I expect you to earn a town read by pushing the game forward. You said you'd be obv town by EOD today, right?

[VP Baltar]

hi hi hi what have I missed

Wooooper. We are talking about whether George Bailey is scum or just lazing through.

Also, since Ico is back tomorrow:

UNVOTE:
VOTE: Ico

[VP Baltar]

i didn't read shit but the last vc but wtf

UNVOTE: ico

Now that you've read, what is your take?

Have you played with Anya scum before? Her pile on and unbreakable town read on George feel slightly ... off. But I can't tell through the posting style.

The Ico wagon rose and fell very quickly, which suggests to me some kind of scum movement on one side of that. No clue which side.

[VP Baltar]

Why'd you abandon the Ico wagon, wooper?

[VP Baltar]

Gonna have to make some choices somewhere

[VP Baltar]

are you trying to rush me?

Just saying that "IDK" is less tenable position as the day goes on.

[VP Baltar]

are you trying to rush me?

Just saying that "IDK" is less tenable position as the day goes on.

That seems to be your position as well right now though?

I don't see myself posting in thread going "oh god, I can't read anyone"

So, no.

Not saying I have super set positions, but I have feelings on folks. Some stated, some not.

[VP Baltar]

Have you played with Anya scum before? Her pile on and unbreakable town read on George feel slightly ... off. But I can't tell through the posting style.

do you have any meta to detail on that?

No I've never played with Anya, which is why I was asking. I find her play pretty opportunistic, but in a very obvious way.

[VP Baltar]

Not sure about VP Baltars random hypocritical attack on Datisi earlier. It's kinda an continuation of what i didn't like about him and what i keep finding scummy. How he always asks other people for their opinions and complaining about their inactivity, but their questions also feel pointless.

Am I scum?

[VP Baltar]

Given the last few pages, I'm very uncertain that George is scum. There's some lazy slumping on here happening.

[VP Baltar]

Luca, what's your take on how the George wagon built given you were the first vote?

[VP Baltar]

- vp's posts here are pinging me on a gut level (which tbf has been wrong before) but like idk. asking for my opinion then going "well you don't see *me* going how i can't read anyone" and like i don't like the implication that i'm indecisive bc it kiiinda feels like it's saying i'm not participating properly (and as i type this out i realize it might be a slight stretch but fuck it i am typing it out anyway)

I'm not saying you're not participating properly, btw. You can do what you want. But I'm just getting slightly annoyed with multiple people being like "NM, geraint and the lurker crew...no way we can solve today!"

Like, I highly doubt all the scum are in the lurker pool. Someone active is surely scum. I'm not resigning to a fuck it yeet today unless we are policing NM (and even that is suboptimal).

[VP Baltar]

Luca, what's your take on how the George wagon built given you were the first vote?

I’ve already said I suspect gypyx, don’t like his vote and could see him and George being s/s

Don’t particularly like Wooper’s vote or recent play either

The rest seems fine

Norwee's vote is also very bad. I'd be down to yeet gypyx today possibly if you feel stronger there.

[VP Baltar]

also i'm p sure george is now at 5 with neither gera nor n_m on wagon so it's time tooooooo... UNVOTE: george

boy oh boy can't wait for vp to call me scum based on wagon movement!!

Lol when did I call you scum. You're being a little cowardly and I don't get the point.

[VP Baltar]

How do you read me right now, Baltar?

I went back through your iso. I think it's OK. I'm trying to determine if you're pocketing Datisi or really what your obsession with getting a townread from him is.

Overall, I don't think I want to yeet you today now. You're still a little uncontroversial, but I think you're trying to find your footing. There are objectively better choices today and you seem like you're going to play...which is good and means your alignment should clear up for me eventually.

[VP Baltar]

i'm cowardly of what? ending the day prematurely when we have far too little to go off?

A bit yeah. I mean, you ostensibly believe in the wagons you're pushing to some degree. We've talked a bit about the likelihood of a quick hammer. I don't get the benefit of running many people up to Y-2 and then collapsing the wagons.

[VP Baltar]

I think you oughta reconsider that read cus i ain't sharing the block with that guys cocky face and "am i scum?" attitude.

What in the what?

[VP Baltar]

UNVOTE:
VOTE: Gypyx

You have to say it three times for it to work.

[VP Baltar]

trying to figure out if it's quickhammer range every time there's a vote change like

Just realized I can once again say I've never misled town!Datisi on a speed yeet. That's cool

[VP Baltar]

I kind of want nor to be town but his interactions w baltar are so trippy that if my reads are uuuuupside the fuck down, they are scum together 99% of the time

Who is this post referring to? George?

[VP Baltar]

I kind of want nor to be town but his interactions w baltar are so trippy that if my reads are uuuuupside the fuck down, they are scum together 99% of the time

Who is this post referring to? George?

Oh NM, Norway.

[VP Baltar]

Given the last few pages, I'm very uncertain that George is scum. There's some lazy slumping on here happening.

george is + scum at this point
interested to see you coming to his defense here?

why uncertain?

There is like universal agreement George is sscummy and he is starting to line up as the inevitable D1 yeet when he isn't even posting.

That's way more likely a scum push than not in my experience. If scum was getting run up, I'd expect to see more friction.

[VP Baltar]

Any reason you’re not voting George?

im still catching up.

and going to break my vote longest wagon rule. not voting george. i think the wagon stinks.

i am not saying george can't be scum - they have as much change as anyone else in this game - but i am not (right now) going to help people eliminate them

VOTE: aliceK instead

This is some wild shit after several people have been arguing with you to stop running up wagons you disagreed with.

I'm very confused what changed here for you geraintm

[VP Baltar]

ok a thought: i feel like ico is giving a town-pass to wooper waaaaaay too easily? like idk off the top of my head but i have a feeling ico should know that wooper is like. not a bad scum player. how in the hecc is he getting so many townpasses here. i don't like it.

gut is telling me ico is scum that's tmi-ing wooper being town

but gut is also telling me wooper is scum bc his lolnullread on me makes absolutely no sense and i'd *really* expect wooper to know better and townread me no problem in this game

but but but gut is also telling me that luca is townreading me way too easily even though in a vacuum i would fully expect him to have a solid read on me by now

I am sorry that my town vibes of you go up the more mental distress you appear to be in over your reads.

[VP Baltar]

there's also a tonal component that i rarely speak of

but let's say that i like IV's freeposting where VP just feels more forced

This is some bullshit if I ever saw it.

Please tell me what is forced about my posting compared to several town games you have seen me in.

[VP Baltar]

idk, it's making me queasy, like your progression on meta reading Alice doesn't feel chronological and it's there to make us feel like you are trying to sort her

Serious question though, why are you spending so much time focused on Datisi today? Like, I can't see a world where we lim Datisi D1, so why is such a big amount of your posting about him instead of the many other relevant discussions happening.

I need to ISO you to confirm, but it just feels like a lot of your posts are about poking Datisi in a way that's not really going anywhere

[VP Baltar]

God you’re always so much better at putting to words what i’m thinking.

Pocketing

[VP Baltar]

i think that's just his tone

Ico has played a few games with me as town and knows my posting style.

[VP Baltar]

Any reason you’re not voting George?

im still catching up.

and going to break my vote longest wagon rule. not voting george. i think the wagon stinks.

i am not saying george can't be scum - they have as much change as anyone else in this game - but i am not (right now) going to help people eliminate them

VOTE: aliceK instead

This is some wild shit after several people have been arguing with you to stop running up wagons you disagreed with.

I'm very confused what changed here for you geraintm

Following up on this since it was the beginning of my catch up, I still don't think geraint explained this well. It may not have an actual good explanation other than the GB wagon is lazy....which I agree with.

Sigh.

[VP Baltar]

baltar, do you think 1017 was a reasonable thing to be concerned about?

It's weird, hence why I asked what the obsession was. I think you articulated a well spoken questioning of it though.

[VP Baltar]

did you too think my suspicion here was empty?

It seems like a very academic criticism that isn't going to lead to actually finding scum. That was my read of it. So yeah, kind of empty calories there.

[VP Baltar]

God you’re always so much better at putting to words what i’m thinking.

Pocketing

So am i a scumread to you?

I think you are on the scummier side of null. You're not doing much this game but subtly shading me and trying to buddy up to people. Like, why are you talking about a town bloc seriously on D1?

You've been tweaked at me since the game started because I poked you a little bit early on. As far as I can tell, you're not actually looking at my reads or posts at all, just talking shit, and you're too timid to actually take me on if you think I'm scum. Not great signals as far as I'm seeing.

[VP Baltar]

Datisi, if we are going to policy, I'd prefer NM. Am I wrong? Like I get the GB hate, but that's my issue a bit...everyone is hating on him for the same reason about not posting/shit posting.

When scum gets accused of that, a yeet there is never that easy. Case in point: me trying to get scum!Dunn yeeted D1 in our last game. It was such an uphill climb and I couldn't get it through ever.

[VP Baltar]

Norwee's reaction isn't something Scum posts.

Idk. It was kind of a bullshit response to me stating a legitimate fact his activity had fallen off. I don't think the anger is automatically a town reaction. Scum fake emotions all the time for advantages in conversation.

[VP Baltar]

now, there were sparks of dunn vote close to eod (which tbf other scum did distract from asap and yes they did give me slight panic attacks) but i don't think that's what you're talking about here, as the george wagon feels more comparable to the earlier dunn wagon, as i don't get the feeling we're deadline rushing here. so like. i'm gonna need a bit more arguments here than "dunn was hard to yeet and he was scum, george easy to yeet therefore he's town" because scum were doing the opposite of protecting dunn there.

Just because you guys hopped on that wagon doesn't mean you were pushing it. I mean, I'm not trying to get into a rehash of that game, but you can't honestly tell me you were trying to hard bus Dunn on D1. Sheeping me and then hopping off when you could is not the same at all.

You were actually pushing Italiano hard D1. A vote =/= an energetic bus.

But to my bigger point, everyone here (myself included until I started thinking about this point) has little to no objection to a George yeet. I think they are very different situations playing out.

[VP Baltar]

also to actually answer your question, yes i would much rather policy n_m than i would policy george.

though i am also kinda ??? about you being the person to recommend that because... i dunno, doesn't fit my mental model of you, though what do i know. didn't you play a game w n_m and you two both lived to lylo? like that's making me think there weren't calls to policy him there but i didn't actually read that game and where was i even going with this

Something like that. I mean, I usually don't advocate for policy yeets mostly because the site meta now heavily penalizes even talking about it and no one really wants to. But I'm personally not opposed to it in cases where it can be a corrective action or just generally avoid a shitty xylo situation.

[VP Baltar]

I mean, I know I'm going on a limb shitting on the George wagon when I could easily just let that slide through and figure it out later if it is a misyeet. I just have a very bad gut reaction to it, and I think I just said this game I need to start trusting my gut a little more. If we do flip George and he's red, well that's just about my luck!

[VP Baltar]

baltar what is your opinion on anya again

what do you think about a wagon there

I've gone back and forth on Anya pretty hard this game, mostly because I can't make heads or tails of her posting style.

At first, I thought she couldn't be scum shitposting like that because that gimmick would not last very long before people just yeet you for being annoying, regardless of alignment.

But then she admits she doesn't have an actual read on George after hard defending him early one (lol, ok) and her vote onto Ico was probably the objective worse since I don't think she expressed any kind of concern about Ico at all, and she was late on the quick wagon. Of course, Ico is still in my list of suspects....so was it a bad vote?

Among the non-combatants, Anya is maybe on the scummier side. But I am having a weird problem where I have too many scum reads this game. Usually it's the opposite for me.

I hope your scum win made you happy, because now I see darkness behind every corner.

[VP Baltar]

yeah policying n_m not bad unless he's tpr i guess.

That's basically the only scenario where it's not bad, and even then....shrug

[VP Baltar]

I mean, I know I'm going on a limb shitting on the George wagon when I could easily just let that slide through and figure it out later if it is a misyeet. I just have a very bad gut reaction to it, and I think I just said this game I need to start trusting my gut a little more. If we do flip George and he's red, well that's just about my luck!

ok but again. can you tell me in any more specifics about what's making you uncomfy about it? like the votes themselves that were made on him? or do you think it's town pushing it through and scum are just sitting besides?

I mean, the argument against George is just so uninspiring. His posts are very pedestrian. I don't disagree with that. But there are other players in this game with just as boring and uninspiring posts (Anya, Norwegian, geraintm). I mean, maybe it's a meta thing and I'm just not that familiar with George!town v. George!scum, but it is pinging me as a very low hanging fruit yeet. I guess that's why I'm comparing it to a policy.

of the people on the wagon, I'm not really a super fan of Gypyx or Norwee, as I think has been clear. I also think Ico coming back from the weekend and pushing there is STANKY.

Even geraintm is willing to break his bad play rule for how questionable the George wagon is.

Like I said, if y'all want to yeet him, go for it. If he flips red, that's egg on my face. I just haven't seen very compelling points being made except some vague meta and saying he's not here enough.

[VP Baltar]

oh yeah i was looking for potential george partners who are subtly masterminding the dissociaton of george's wagon

uhh... *checks list* vp? luca? wow in that case, i sure do fucking hope george is town!!

Also, luca is on the wagon, not off. I think you meant Geraintm

[VP Baltar]

i mean my point that on the first dunn wagon of that game (which is what i'm comparing this george wagon to), there were no scum voices arguing against a dunn yeet. like the "no objections to george yeet" doesn't imply "everyone is *actually* fine with a george yeet i.e. scum is fine with it i.e. george is town".

This is probably a fair point I guess. I just felt like I was fighting an uphill battle that entire game to get the dunn wagon to even 5 votes on D1, and it feels like we could yeet George rn with no one batting an eye.

BUT, you're right. Maybe it was just shitty townies that game holding me back and not slow walking scum. I still don't remember you or Green Crayons giving me real support on Dunn other than a vote, but that's still something I suppose.

[VP Baltar]

ok ok one more question. what's your gut feeling on the ico flashwagon? i assume it's better since you were like, a part of it or something, but idk.

I think I triggered it, so I don't feel terrible about it, and I don't have a town read on Ico at this time.

Norwegian and Anya are the only two people on that wagon I have possible scum leans on, so its composition actually wasn't THAT bad. It also went up and down with equal speed, so that is hard to tell.

[VP Baltar]

2 out of 5 people on wagon being possible scum is what counts as not THAT bad composition?

They probably aren't both scum. I don't have strong reads on either. Just saying if you asked me for a hard read rn, I'd put them both on the scummy side of null with the understanding I'm not right about both of them

[VP Baltar]

if i were to invite you to vote anya w me and mr blight, what's your response?

I could probably compromise there.

[VP Baltar]

hmm

i don't like not knowing your alignment

2 out of 5 people on wagon being possible scum is what counts as not THAT bad composition?

if i were to invite you to vote anya w me and mr blight, what's your response?

D2 sure

Dafuq this mean?

[VP Baltar]

UNVOTE:
VOTE: Anya

My gift

[VP Baltar]

Anya claim.

[VP Baltar]

meh, i kinda believe it idk VOTE: Not_Mafia

Why NM now? You just trying to run up all the inactives? Who are your actual scum reads?

[VP Baltar]

i'm an all powerful all seeing death wielding destruction bringing apocalypse incarnate of a vt

Do you think there are scum on your wagon?

[VP Baltar]

Anya should absolutely be limmed unless she actually produces some significantly townie content

Otherwise I have no interest in running anyone else up today

You are giving a pass to George and not Mafia for their levels of content then?

Lol you opposed the George wagon.


You are kind of incomprehensible. Like, why are you going off about getting a claim? You think optimal D1 play has not been figured out on this site over the course of thousands of games? Many games have had no lims D1. It's not a good outcome.

[VP Baltar]

i'm an all powerful all seeing death wielding destruction bringing apocalypse incarnate of a vt

Do you think there are scum on your wagon?

this is a grand mystery

Ok, just lim this

[VP Baltar]

If Anya flips red, IV may need to go next.

[VP Baltar]

Ok, just lim this

alternatively, if there is a bus vote, i think this post might have been typed out while cursing

You think I'm sloppy! Rude. I save my cursing for PTs.

[VP Baltar]

i'm being brutally executed for simultaneously having a consensus and anti-concensus opinion luca?

i'm actually a wagon cop and sorry for fakeclaiming vt earlier

each night i can check a wagon to see if there's any wolves on it

*Checks to make sure jesters still aren't allowed in normal games*

[VP Baltar]

Where did IV disappear to

Living that PT life

[VP Baltar]

I have evolved Datisi ! I am no longer scared as scum

...jk I’m always terrified still

You going to hammer, or....

[VP Baltar]

God where is not mafia

[VP Baltar]

God where is not mafia

i think baltar doesn't appreciate our shitposting u_u

It's fineeeee.

I prefer a flip though. Need that red flip HIIIIIIIIIIIGH

[VP Baltar]

IV, stop being a coward and hammer.

[VP Baltar]

IV, stop being a coward and hammer.

whyyy do you have such a thirst for a hammer suddenly

I'm bored and I think Anya flips red 9/10 times based on her reax to the surprise wagon.

[VP Baltar]

why should I hammer a slot I don’t really want to kill when we have plenty of time left?? what the fuck are you expecting me to do

There's no fucking reason to believe Anya is town in this scenario.

[VP Baltar]

but more important cna you explain why?

First, lol saying I'm wrong if she flips red....like what are you on?

To your question, Anya has zero takes about the people on her wagon at first, indicating she is worried about wifom around buddies who might be on that wagon if she flips.

Second, this bullshit read on Datisi with evidence cited while she was allegedly town reading Datisi is CLEARLY made up random shit. If you're town, you're fucking gullible if you believe Anya isn't pulling that out of her ass just there.

Maybe Anya is lazy town in this scenario, but even that doesn't change any of the above about why she looks scummy as hell in her reaction. Flipping her is the right play.

[VP Baltar]

Also, she just disappears and votes not her top scum read, but the person who Datisi and I were vaguely talking about being open to policy? Give me a break

[VP Baltar]

I'm imagining this wacky fade out sequence and then the camera points to Iconeum on the toilet reading a magazine.

Lol

[VP Baltar]

the ridiculous thing is that literally no matter what Anya flips, in today’s meta I just look worse for WKing her here (even though I’m not confident about her alignment)

You look less bad of you hammer

[VP Baltar]

There is no one else here. When someone else arrives, I will tell them to hammer.

[VP Baltar]

what’s wrong with his confidence? we’ve both seen town Baltar confidently believe a slot is scum

if you think my brain stops confbiasing even after being presented evidence to the contrary, i have news for you

I'm not mad, son, I'm just disappointed.

[VP Baltar]

i hate that vp went so suddenly from "lol idk can compromise there" to ~ b l o o d l u s t ~

I was skeptical, but completely garbage reaction melted down the scumputer.

I don't make the rules, I just play by them.

[VP Baltar]

how many scum are there in this game

You think I'm scum?

[VP Baltar]

the answer to that question overall though, is that you do feel kinda flat to me so far this game. it's probably untrue to call it a scumread but it's sitting at the back of my mind for now.

That's surprising tbh. Feel like I'm fairly engaged given my schedule. I also think, if anything, I've been going pretty against the popular flow of the day a bit. What's flat to you?

[VP Baltar]

i can't quite follow what you're thinking all the time.

Well, sometimes I have trouble haha.


Anyhow, you should go rest. We can talk about it more tomorrow.

[VP Baltar]

t h o n k

Those are not even comparable points and it's actually a bit shady you excerpted that without context.

In the latter post, I was talking about Koba getting caught lying in the game and them bring like "oh lol, I goofed on the deets let's move on"

The former was me being sympathetic to you being tired and being self deprecating at myself.

Why are you comparing apples to oranges here exactly?

[VP Baltar]

I find how consistently inactive George is to be scummy - he makes a post every day or two, just keeping himself out of prod range, and immediately disappears again. It seems somewhat calculated like he’s deliberately just doing enough to remain in the game

Is this scum meta for George?

[VP Baltar]

I think Anya is town!


I feel like what she's doing would cause unnecessary attention as scum. She's also playing a lot like how she played last game where she was town. viewtopic.php?f=11&t=86079&user_select[]=34374

This post is definitely annoying.

I'm supposed to believe one randomly linked game is good meta for Anya? Second, you don't even say HOW these games are the same. Third, Anya is past the point of drawing unnecessary attention and firmly into "this is probably getting yeeted today". At that point as scum, you do exactly what Anya is doing and offer no usable information to out your buddies later.

[VP Baltar]

Also, I really want to dayvig IV

[VP Baltar]

IV, I don't see you doing any actual scumhunting. Who do YOU want to yeet today?

[VP Baltar]

gth id kill any of {Iconeum, NM, GeorgeBailey}

but i want to reorient first before i commit to any scumreads

What are you reorienting from? When is this taking place? We have 3 days.

[VP Baltar]

gth id kill any of {Iconeum, NM, GeorgeBailey}

but i want to reorient first before i commit to any scumreads

What are you reorienting from? When is this taking place? We have 3 days.

yes i understand

if you guys kill Anya before i get a chance to do this then whatever

You didn't answer either of my questions

[VP Baltar]

okay serious question has anyone townread Anya at any point in the game?

besides GeorgeBailey's recent random 1-liner, i think the answer to this question is no btw. if someone disagrees please lmk otherwise im going with this interpretation

You.

You have townread Anya.

[VP Baltar]

im not sure when ill reorient and organize my reads. im not sure why it matters so much to you?

It matters to me because I'm suddenly very aware you are posting a lot without saying a lot, and I'm trying to figure out what is going on.

You've staunchly opposed the Anya yeet. That's fine. I disagree with your reasons, but you're entitled to a different game view. What I'm trying to get to is WHAT that other gameview actually is that you're pushing for. I'm not seeing it.

[VP Baltar]

superficially it was a close enough

~Side eye~

[VP Baltar]

superficially it was a close enough

~Side eye~

do you wish to say something?

Yeah, don't do that if you want me to trust you in this game. I don't mind scrutiny, but using false argument isn't exactly endearing or something that makes me believe in good intentions.

[VP Baltar]

If you think George is more likely scum, why not yeet there? There is still enough support it seems

[VP Baltar]

Alternatively, I could still get down on a last minute gypyx wagon. I guess my only hesitancy is that we do probably need to sort a non-contributing slot today if we don't want to get ruined in late game by a pack of people with no real records to scrutinize.

On your mention of n_m, I kind of got similar townie vibes from him calling Luca scum out of nowhere. I don't think I can articulate it -- and that's certainly easy to fake -- but it felt left field in the same way his reads in my last game with him felt.

We are really going to need some good night actions to sort this game I'm thinking.

[VP Baltar]

also what's your scum(?)read on him again about?

As I indicated in 717, I just don't get the sense that Gypyx is asking questions that have conviction or are seeking to really understand.

Going off memory, I couldn't tell you who he has really interrogated or what he asked them about.

I'm probably being slightly unfair, because yes that statement is true of a lot of people -- but Gypyx also strikes me as a really smart and creative person, so I guess I expected more from his gameplay having never shared a game with him before.

[VP Baltar]

and also i find it kinda interesting how his strongest scumread was iv, but there wasn't much of anything recently in terms of either interacting w him or pushing him

I mean, if you're going to call iv out on something, it'd be hyperposting with no real serious scum reads and no hard pushes behind his posting.

Of course, if you're going to do that, you probably shouldn't be Gypyx in this game.

[VP Baltar]

"why are you wishing to dayvig iv because of that but seem to be just fine jamming w me?", will you give me an interesting response?

As much as your indecisiveness is WHATEVER, you have built a few wagons and pushed people. I don't think your play here is comparable to iv, who has spent the last few days just saying "lol that wagon is town" and not doing much else.

[VP Baltar]

does the whatever mean scummy or annoying (or both)? for future reference.

In this case, more just annoying.

I have mostly gotten town vibes from you this game, particularly because I think you're feeling the same uneasiness about Ico that I'm feeling. I didn't love that cheap point you tried to score, but I'm willing to buy your claim for now that you were reaction testing me.

[VP Baltar]

You mean two hardheads arguing about pointless semantics isn't worth it? Gosh, what has the world come to

[VP Baltar]

do you guys think Gypyx crumbing his role on opening post is town!indicative? i can't help but think that it could be, because he's pigeonholing himself into one exact claim

(unless he's big brained this and there are like, 5 different roles he crumbed with that post)

any thoughts on this about Gypyx? if you already responded lmk

I didn't really look closely at his crumb. Gypyx is big smart on weird role stuff and he said only he would figure out his crumb, so I wasn't too inclined to spend time trying to figure it out. Seems like something he could do as either alignment from my perspective.

[VP Baltar]

Looking at it again, it just looks like random shit. So you could extrapolate lots of meaning off it later if it WAS fake. I don't see how you think he's pigeonholing himself.

[VP Baltar]

im not trying to figure out what it means

but it is clearly a role crumb

if he later says "oh lol that was just me trolling" i would insta-kill gypyx bc that's scummy

like he's basically committing to a claim there regardless

I mean, what if he just claims VT later and has some semi-plausible explanation for why that means VT? Gypyx has a weird mind, so I guess I don't see what he'd claim where he couldn't make SOMETHING sound ok.

[VP Baltar]

Weird that iv is like 'we might need to lim George' and then doesn't proceed to vote George.

[VP Baltar]

If you do not vote Anya or George in your next post, I'm going to assume you are scum.

This applies to everyone.

[VP Baltar]

If you do not vote Anya or George in your next post, I'm going to assume you are scum.

This applies to everyone.

question

what if i'm already voting one of them

Then you're fine obv.

Just think the consensus candidates are clear. IV is faffing about like it's cute or something and it is actually just clear he is happy with a stalled game state.

[VP Baltar]

Now we are talking

[VP Baltar]

Now we are talking

also what was this comment aimed at?

The universe. I am over this day phase and would like to see a flip, preferably Anya.

[VP Baltar]

If George is the flip, that's y'alls thing. I will only vote there if a no yeet is imminent.

That being said, I'm not going to try to stop it at this point. Can't tell what is town and scum anymore among the apathy crowd.

[VP Baltar]

but but George is a shining example of towniness and i'd die for him

Vote yourself

[VP Baltar]

hey um, this probably sounds terrible, but what's going on right now? sueling wagons between Anya / George?

This feels fake.

[VP Baltar]

Like, you know that sounds bad, and you clearly know we are trying to decide a yeet.

It feels like a really forced post that is supposed to be interpreted as too scummy to be scum.

[VP Baltar]

Where did gypyx go?

[VP Baltar]

VP, how do you know Anya is scum, tho?

Not_Mafia (1) -> Anya

[VP Baltar]

It's all part of the plan

[VP Baltar]

i cannot be the loud dragon you know me to be when there are too many players who can actually play this game and are actually doing things

????? 5/13 of this game is literally not playing the fuck are you on about?????

you + wooper + luca + VP + IV + norwee

I'm on a completely opposite timezones as you. Norwee and wooper are semi-not here half the time. IV is generally going on about things that don't mean anything.

This is a pretty bad excuse for why you're blase this game, Ico.

[VP Baltar]

If George does flip town, I'm not surprised.

George, hip reads would be appreciated

[VP Baltar]

Not sure how I feel about wooper's many spew pages. My gut says plus town, but my head feels like he is being manipulative

[VP Baltar]

Anya, what's your take on wooper?

[VP Baltar]

luca, if i say i like, really scumread you, will you kill me tonight?

If you do due tonight, what dying wishes of yours can I carry out?

[VP Baltar]

Do due is kinda funny tbh

DIE

if you DIE tonight

[VP Baltar]

i was just shitposting why y'all talking like i'm actually gonna die i don't like this

I think you or I are toast tonight, assuming you're town.

I probably don't have to explain WHY that's the case.

[VP Baltar]

IV is generally going on about things that don't mean anything.

the feeling is mutual

I'll be real, you feel off to me this game a bit. I understand we butt heads sometimes, but I think I've been OK at telling when you're town after our first game together. You seem off to me ..or at least ineffectual...in your pushes here.

[VP Baltar]

i mean without me anya definitely would've died today

This is not a mark in your favor, hmph

[VP Baltar]

do you have final thoughts VP? if i'm wolf i promise to 1000% kill you tonight

Final thoughts: I always appreciated your willingness to wax poetic while you choked the life from me.

[VP Baltar]

the funny thing is that i'm actually going to kill you tonight but people won't believe it's me bc they'll think it's too obvious

I appreciate you