In post 722, Bamboozle wrote:Bell should be the flip. I don't like to address the hippocrates in the room as much as the next guy, but Bell has tonnes of motivation and will to play the game as town, while he really has to force himself to post as scum. Him not having the willpower to dedicate some time to this game is very scum-indicative.
-Bam
While this is true of Bell, his exit post counteracts the lack of effort. Scum!Bell would just exit. Town!Bell left content. Him subbing out alone is not AI as we all have RL sometimes.
I don't think so. Scum!Bell could just feel bad doing that to his teammates knowing everyone will read a silent replace out as extremely scum-indicative for him. I think the final post is pretty NAI.
I scumread Raya. Her thoughts aren't as free flowing like the
Honestly, I had filed her away as a townlean based on the early game as she seemed to be trying the most to actually contribute and get the ball rolling but you make a good point that the overall level of scumhunting is lacking. I would say a scumlean pending further review.
In post 725, Bamboozle wrote:I don't think so. Scum!Bell could just feel bad doing that to his teammates knowing everyone will read a silent replace out as extremely scum-indicative for him. I think the final post is pretty NAI.
Anything is possible. It's more likely scum!Bell would leave nothing. It's worth noting no one interacted with what he did leave.
I'm going to take tonight off from MS too but I'm off work for 2 weeks after tomorrow so
@Maria
V/LA until tomorrow evening / night
I want to post about suspicious or scum reads tonight then I'll continue other reads when I'm back.
Town: Retti / Flea
Town lean: Bamboozle / Titus / Wheme
Spoiler: Samantha: Scum
295 is where Samantha votes for Dunn. Before this Samantha hasn't done anything but post filler. It just reads as haveing to do something in the game and Dunn looked like an easier target. No reason or backing but stays vocal on voting Dunn with 299 / 301. Still no reason or backing. The first attempt at showing reason is 359 where they respond to me asking for a case. The case is because Dunn has only responded to a vote them them which happens after all previous posts requesting a Dunn vote. This shows that Samantha was voting where easy and used a reason that occured later to justify the vote. If the vote is due to inactivity, then why is this not being push, or targeted to others? 299 / 301 are just echoing noise to sound like they are doing something. 372 Samantha is reacting to being called out for pushing based on activity, where they are backing off and showing doubt. It's odd to have doubt here from the person you are pushing for votes on to only question your reason. 373 is Samantha basically joining what looks like a safe wagon. Calls me scum earlier but doesn't act on it. Unless Dunn added so much doubt with 371 to Samantha's 'confident' read, this is just playing to aim for easy lims. 460 is just staying on the fence while the debate is getting split on TvT and SvT. Considering I'm supposed to be scum for Samantha and they are voting me here, this doesn't seem like a geniune scum read with a comment like this. 570 Another safe vote, this time on Bell. Responds to Esooa and basically drops a naked vote just after 566 / 567 / 568 to go un noticed again. 661 The opinions on Bell replacing are split, Samantha looks to be doing another safe vote. PP has 7 posts at this point and if it was an issue with activity / lurking or anything of this agenda then there are other players as well which Samantha is just ignoring. Also, what use is there to just place a naked vote down on someone that you are trying to be active or gain something from? It's just looking busy. 56 was just wierd. I don't know what to make of this but it doesn't make sense that the "name a player" had anything to do with thir, or any affect.
Spoiler: Esooa suspicious / Scum lean
So Essoa coming in and posting comes accross as town. However, 487 is really strange considering I have 1 game with Esooa. If you didn't read the game, I was town and Esooa was scum. There's a bit of knowledge I want to add concering this game though from a live mindset.
I was the easy mis lim bait by later game, and in the game it felt early on that I wasn't overly being pushed as scum until the game went on and scum were being pushed. I ended up town reading Esooa due to a particular flip of scum which Esooa obviously didn't object to. I didn't want to go into a meta read from a previous game because I feel this game in particular has no backing, but since Esooa is using this to want to shield me makes me think they are just trying to use me as a later mis lim if a scum buddy is in trouble. The reason I think this and show doubt is because the game was odd with having 6 or 7 players not post day 1. I could understand if Esooa said that I'm probably town (as I did have a back and fourth with 2 players in that game) but there's no grounds to say that I do this as only town and that my scum game is differnet. But Esooa is wanting to protect me as town? There is no chance of being
THAT
sure that someone is town because 1 game they were argueing or being snarky. It suggests as I said, wanting to try and have me as a lim later or knowing that I'm town and trying to gain town cred for doing so. The back and fourth from Esooa and Retti where Esooa is trying to dodge the question, to just link the 1 game and say it's meta just looked like Esooa trying to avoid giving the reason, otherwise why wasn't this done before but instead implied it to look at games ehre rather than MU (Because why would anyone here randomly look at my games on MU?) 553 is more or less letting 561 just assume the games on MS and hope for Retti to back down there.
Also, in that 1 game me and Esooa did, they tried to write someone off as town due to meta early that looked to be an easy mis lim late game (This is who I focused on the last day).
The rest of Esooa I town read, but the above is just enough for me to favour scum over town (considering I ended up town reading Esooa last game too anyway).
Spoiler: jjh susupicious
219 shows no concern of the game, which could be because there's no pressure on them. 490 / 490 / 495 / 498 / 502 are posts just saying what people want to hear. 504 is jjh's first solid take for me, and is in favour of a town to scum post here. I like the Raya / Smantha scum leans as I don't favour either of these, the Retti being added just gives opportnity for a back lash.
The rest of the ISO seems like filler. I'm not so much as scum on this slot, but I don't favour them as scum over town if I had to pick.
Spoiler: Raya suspicious / Scum lean
113 This is the first post from Raya that strikes as odd and is response to 102. Raya posts about Samantha being geniuene 86 and then proceeds to play off a scum read in Samantha. This was a vote on the spot in response to my 84 which I didn't originally take seriously. Raya doesn't give anything off to suggest that this is a legit scum read, and even 333 shows that the reason for the vote is also something that town can do makes it seem less believable. So to question why they are the scum from the 2 in 113 is odd and seems to have other motive / worry around it. 332 follow up concerning the above just suggests that these can be scum together or that Raya is actually scum with Samantha town. It just seems to be a high point for Raya to focus on here.
Raya is just playing by the 1 post of Samantha to slide on by, not pushing this or trying to push anything else Samantha has done. Plausible SvS but I'd favour TvS here with Samantha being the scum.
I want to go over Willow again once back. Part of me just thinks it's egos clashing after a re read although I don't think I represented my concern well which without filling the game with more back and fourth like that I just want to explain my mindset with it and where I'm at with Willow.
In post 738, VFP wrote:219 shows no concern of the game, which could be because there's no pressure on them. 490 / 490 / 495 / 498 / 502 are posts just saying what people want to hear.
504 is jjh's first solid take for me, and is in favour of a town to scum post here. I like the Raya / Smantha scum leans as I don't favour either of these, the Retti being added just gives opportnity for a back lash.
The rest of the ISO seems like filler. I'm not so much as scum on this slot, but I don't favour them as scum over town if I had to pick.
Generally speaking jjh isn't a very loud player. They'll look like they're not interested for a very long period of time but this isn't AI for them.
In post 700, Retti wrote:Have you actually read the game you were in, or are you working from memory? Because I didn't think the arguments were at all similar.
Does it matter? I spent the entirety of that game on the chopping block, its was pretty intense and me ad VFP were going hell for leather at each other.
Also, Post 10, I think I'm safe lol
I think memory often distorts the nature of things such that we remember events differently than they were in reality. Sometimes you read old posts you've written and wonder who the person writing them was. In my own estimation your arguments with him that game weren't that intense! Even though he scumread you he was responding in a fairly rational manner. You, of course, can disagree by saying you were a part of it and that's not how it went, and I can't really dispute that, but to my eyes the two instances are dissimilar. This ultimately falls down to subjectivity of interpretation.
I don't
really
want to get into this though because I don't feel this is a productive avenue of discussion and am no longer interested in wagoning VFP and would prefer to give him space before passing judgment
Oh honey you have no idea the rabbit hole you're looking at right here xD That aside, this is half of my point. When in you're the heat of the moment, its very different looking back at it, which is why I say meta like that is useless. At the time, to me/us(Hi -R/M/D), it was quite intense and heated. You're also looking at the assuming several things about us which may or may not be true. Until you have someone live, you can't use meta that effectively.
I was skeptical on it too until I clicked on those links Pooky posted. Fact is we have two people in this game known for having > average reads: one that I obviously know is town (Pooky) and the other one (I strongly tr now) who literally nailed the entire scum team in a past game (Hectic), both mindmelding with me and Noraa on Bell!scum. Raya may or may not be scum but I’d be really shocked if Bell flips town here. So we’re not moving our vote.
In post 207, Bear HUGS wrote:I just woke up and Noraa has bombarded me with a 20,000 word phd thesis on why like 11 people MUST BE SCUM.
Can ya'all take it easy on the acting scummy thing so I survive this game please?
Thank you in advance <3
Oh and @Romance, fyi, 207 literally never happens if we’re scum and I’m kind’ve surprised you can’t tell this is 100% my towngame.
Btw @Penguin, any reads so far?
P.edit. NM, he’s sr Bell. Townpoints for that.
I’m not opposed to Raya since I’ve been iffy on her and Noraa, Hectic and jjh all have suspicions about her but Pooky says he’s very confident this is Bell!scum we’re seeing here and therefore, my most confident sr, so we’re sticking with that.
Bell flipping scum > than Raya although it’s possible they both could be but if I’m wrong, it’s more likely to be on Raya than Bell.
I also want to point out that the reaction to the Dunn wagon doesn’t have the same basis as the Bell wagon as Dunn is currently for me a straight up null read but Bell is > chance than rand playing up to his scum meta. Bell wasn’t even slightly annoyed at the srs on him, he didn’t react like that at all in Death Curse.
In post 660, Raya36 wrote:I don't even see what was so bad with bell's stuff anyway. They just seemed inactive is all
did you take a look at the bell games I linked?
there is a clear difference between Bell!Town and Bell!Scum.
Bell!Town has no trouble getting into the flow of the game and putting out content/pushing the action.
Bell!Scum has great difficulty getting into the game, he struggles playing the red!alignment.
Regardless of RL - the fact that he couldn't get into his town!persona at all heavily hints that his alignment this game is scum.
His replace-out post is practically a scum claim, just randomly tossing out townreads/random thoughts at people.
I don't doubt that he had RL problems that caused him to hit the replace-out button - but think about
why
he finds it difficult to get into the game/putting down meaningful reads.
Town!Bell participates very easily - the game just flows. Scum!Bell absolutely struggles to replicate that Town!Bell mentality - he finds the game much harder and that is why he's struggling to get into the game.
In post 558, willow1 wrote:i can see the flopping/playing the pedantic victim of injustice being stylistic, might meta them later. sam/bell good alternate votes imo, in that order.
still keeping this for now
i can see the flopping/playing the pedantic victim of injustice being stylistic, might meta them later. sam/bell good alternate votes imo, in that order.still keeping this for now
yea it's stylistically how Bell plays when he's scum.
town!bell doesn't look like this at all lol
In post 564, Bear HUGS wrote:uh just a quick glance thru Town!Bell / Scum!Bell meta:
In post 12, Bell wrote:Why was I borne in a capitalist society.
In post 13, Bell wrote:I could have been anything I could have been the texture of cheese, of cabbages, the agitation in your eye, the crick in your back.
I could have been something that had no arms and no legs and no mind.
I could have. Why must I do things?
Why?
In post 17, Bell wrote:It's from disco elysium, it's imagination and it's awesome.
In post 211, Bell wrote:Sam -> Likes to set up solve. -> Tried to talk about flavor almost immediately.
-> Complained about the pace
-> When content shows up, she's there to talk about it.
I don't know Sam that well, but what's there seems fine.
In post 214, Bell wrote:Oh, because you seem sort of genuine, but also you sound like you're posturing. So I'm super confused.
I guess maybe you're trying not to sound like yourself? I'm inclined to alt guess.
I don't really think 196 is a non-content pop in. If you want my opinion on non-content, I very much enjoy people's shit posts, sometimes even more than their content.
In post 617, Bell wrote:Hi, I thought I could do this, but I simply can’t.
I barely have any free time right now and it simply wouldn’t be fair for those more involved in the game.
I think willow seems the townier of the two on tvp but don’t hold me to that.
When romance said I’ll reveal I’m town at some point I stopped scum reading them but that’s a vibe read.
Booze I don’t have a read on.
The bears are being a lot as usual.
Also, too many alts. Cowards.
Dunn is not playing differently from every other game I’ve played with him and I’ve never Ed played with scum him.
But this means little, he’s kind of unreadable.
I don’t feel much from jjh.
Opinion of Sam’s the same. They’re playing slightly differently but I don’t feel that they’re being posturey
Retti looked super authoritarian on first look so I started scum reading him, but chilled out on second read of their opening.
If I haven’t mentioned you, you didn’t make an impression or I didn’t read your posts.
Anyway, good luck all. Sorry for replacing out.
@mod replace me. Apologies.
Of all of these posts, #617 is probably the only one where he appears to be even trying and much of it reads like busywork.
Notice in both #208 and #617, Bell fails to give us read despite mentioning us? He asks Hectic if he’s “misread Noraa lately” as opposed to actually offering a read on us himself and in #617: all he says is “we’re a lot”. Why even mention us at all if not to give a read. And every single one of these reads is off the charts hedgey and differently hedgey than VFP because his kind of hedginess could also come from town but Bell’s reads are scum indicative because every single one of them is totally superficial.
Dunn is unreadable.
He doesn’t “feel much” from jjh.
Don’t even understand exactly wtf he’s even saying about Sam.
And we’re “a lot”? Very astute read on a triple hydra
Not.
Just click on those links. These are not town!Bell reads. Town!Bell posts actual CONTENT. Nothing he’s said comes even close to a real read. The replace out part is likely because he probably wants to avoid what happened in Pooky v. FL. Bell hates playing scum. In our scum PT in that game, he practically begged FL to let him out of his misery.
Yeah, Raya's vote hasn't moved since page 4. Her reads have been oriented toward calling people towny (117, 332, last part of 340, 456). 628 is a continuation of that whereshe's expressing doubt on the bell wagon but isn't really pursuing any alternatives. The questioning in things like 339356 and 616 doesn't seem to lead to any conclusions at all which makes me think it's busywork. I'm not getting the feeling of solving from reading here.
I agree with what you're saying about Bell but shoveling dirt on him while the slot is being replaced isn't going to change anything. People are too scared to wagon an afk. Don't worry about it, we can come back to it when it's filled.
Very astute read on a triple hydra