TM2021 | Anime Destroys Untrod Tripod | Endgame

[Iconeum]

@Ico - you started to see why Norwegian could be scum the last time we talked, please, look more into that

yeah… you've done a lot of good work to solidify my townread on norwee

if this game turns out to be town!FL v scum!Norwee it's just on you dude

[Iconeum]

but i'm considering that option to be higly unlikely at this point

[Iconeum]

Votecount 1.10

zoraster(4)

~ NorwegianboyEE(80), Nancy Drew 39(110), TheGoldenParadox(29), thestatusquo(96)

!

@Nancy scum is 100% in this

now this is the good shit, because I would tend to agree with it

which means TGP can be scum
which means FL is town
which means I should probably listen to FL more :p

[Iconeum]

I agree with Nancy town, Norwegian came into Day 2 with a terrible reasoning to town read TGP, especially after VCA

i'm not gonna pretend to be all-knowing, why exactly was norwee townreading TGP?

i'll look it up after my catchup if i remember

[Iconeum]

After re-thinking things yesterday with my team i have reasons to believe TGP’s claim is more likely town.
First of all, their play makes more sense as town than scum due to key points from Shirou.
And JJH told me their claim makes sense with their flavour. And setup wise it’s more likely a town claim too.

ugh

[Iconeum]

Can you give me your thoughts on Pine?

i've had scummy scumvibes on Pine for a while, but i'm not 100% sure i expressed them in-game yet

i'll get to it after catchup

[Iconeum]

zoraster

(7) ~ thestatusquo(194), NorwegianboyEE(190), Mistyx(70),

BBMolla

(80), Nancy Drew 39(316), Iconeum(207), Flavor Leaf(217) -- HAMMER
Akarin(3) ~ Ramcius(63), Pine(25),

zoraster

(26)

BBMolla

(2) ~ TheGoldenParadox(45), Akarin(38)
Ramcius(1) ~ Dr Easy Bake(20)

zoraster

(4) ~ thestatusquo(171), NorwegianboyEE(132), Mistyx(62),

BBMolla

(73)
Akarin(4) ~ Flavor Leaf(173), Ramcius(53), Iconeum(105), Pine(24)

BBMolla

(3) ~ TheGoldenParadox(43),

zoraster

(25), Akarin(23)
TheGoldenParadox(1) ~ Nancy Drew 39(217)
Ramcius(1) ~ Dr Easy Bake(18)

Akarin wagon at it's peak.

VOTE: Akarin

This will be more informative.

then Norwegian immediately tries to avoid VCA with the Zoraster wagon and goes straight to Akarin

ngl, i'm interested in this

[Iconeum]

there's a potential world where scum!norwee has me pocketed, and scum!TGP hooded me and are using me to kill off FL

but then I would expect scum!TGP to be more active towards that in the hood, which isn't the case

[Iconeum]

Yeah, no, I believe 1 lurker flip is enough for now

VOTE: TGP

Why TGP?

@Ramcius

Yeah, no, I believe 1 lurker flip is enough for now

VOTE: TGP

alright, this is the post that makes me believe the earlier fight between TSQ and Ramcius was TvS. Saying "1 lurker flip is enough" attempts to take attention off of people who should have attention on them, and makes it easy to defend people who aren't particularly defensible. i'm not a fan of it at all, and when i've seen it i think it's done far more often from scum trying to take the heat off of their buddies than town genuinely being against flipping lurkers.

VOTE: akarin couple reasons i'm voting akarin instead of ramcius right now - first, a scum flip from her incriminates ramcius far more than vice versa largely because of this post. second, i haven't seen much in the way of town posts from akarin, and i think ramcius will be sorted by other flips eventually in a way that akarin will not because of lack of interactions.

TGP sheeps Norwegian onto Akarin after Ramcius push's Norwegian, and Norwegian questions it, even though they just did VCA which should make TGP at least suspicious.

Norwegian's read on TGP is 100% fabricated.

Norwegian/TGP is a high scum team equity, but it's not set in stone it's both.

It could be Norwegian town, TGP scum sheeping the person to not get more pressure from Ramcius. I wanna check out Ramcius vs Norwegian in a bit because it happens right after this.

Norwegian also actively avoided multiple situations and team groups where the possibility of Norwegian/Akarin/Flavor Leaf all town, something I thought was a decent possibility if I was wrong with Norwegian and Akarin was lhf misfade. I fully believe Akarin is a lhf misfade and should not be faded today. Norwegian is setting up a situation to ignore getting pressure on themselves while still being able to argue with me. Akarin is the town in my bottom pool, meaning one of the others contain scum. bottom pool contained 1 scum, 2 scum max.

The posts they are making right now should prove to everyone that they are the ones trying to keep this fight going. It lets them hide.

[Iconeum]

Votecount 1.10

zoraster(4)

~ NorwegianboyEE(80), Nancy Drew 39(110), TheGoldenParadox(29), thestatusquo(96)

!

@Nancy scum is 100% in this

Then the only one I’m currently not tr is TGP.

+1

[Iconeum]

can these players talk to me about why they would or wouldn't sheep me here?

I wouldn't sheep you because I don't think that's a compelling reason to vote FL. As he said, though, I would of course vote anyone if it were them-or-me.

I don't know how I feel about FL at this point, he needs sorting and he's tough to sort and I wish I had Krazy in my back pocket. But I wouldn't sheep on this kind of thing.

this is probably one of the most +town posts akarin has made all game

[Iconeum]

caught up to page 117 currently

my biggest take so far is that I am probably settling on town!FL here, and if he is scum i am probably not gonna be able to do jack shit about it

[Iconeum]

That's just even more points towards Norwee/TGP team. Just for the record, if anyone thinks that I would let Akarin go and TR her at the start of D2 as a scum, you're funny, really

TGP could very well be scum and i won’t fight a wagon on him but Pine is the superior flip.

Also it’s possible TGP is just another distraction that leads away from Pine/Ramcius so i’d like it if y’all could re-evaluate the chance that Pine is scum here.

TGP feels like the perfect flip here

neither of FL/norwee want it so it sounds perfect :p

[Iconeum]

Those were JJ’s reads from aroung page 50 btw i should have added that. So not final.

do you think that information was relevant, at all? If yes? why? if no, why post it in the first place?

[Iconeum]

Flavour Leaf should reevaluate Pine because he knows Pine's posts have been designed to pocket him.

i do +1 this feeling

[Iconeum]

You're being manipulated by Pine who is a very good scum player. (JJH's words not mine)

Pine is an incredible scumplayer and someone very much capable of playing the gamestate

i've seen as much in Ali V Pine

[Iconeum]

ok another hot take

in a world with town!nancy, town!fl AND town!pine, which scumteam in their right minds shoots out of this bracket EVER?

that has to be suicide, even with a read on a potential pr crumb

[Iconeum]

i don't think scum!pine and scum!fl play the buddy buddy game that obviously
Nancy is probably town anyway. Scum!fl OR scum!pine can make sense, with a strong favorite towards the latter

[Iconeum]

Pine's iso is actually rather fence-sitty with regards to a TGP read

Spoiler:

A) I apologize for the aspersions on your psychology. I do not understand much of what you do or why you do it, and it is easy and cheap to slap a derogatory label on it rather than try to solve it. That’s not fair or kind and I will refrain.
B) That said, your insistence that others are able to have instant and reliable meta tells on you is absolute horseshit. It always has been and continues to be. Your ongoing inability to understand why people suspect you in a game revolving around deception represents a stunning lack of self-awareness that I’d hoped you’d outgrown
C) You are wildly overestimating most teams’ attention to their teammates’ games.
D) And also their willingness to dictate their teammates’ reads
E) And further the willingness of most players to take their teammates reads as gospel
F) These flaws in your understanding of how other people process reads you believe to be obvious contributes heavily to the aforementioned self-awareness issue
G) All that said, it also contributes to my Townread of you. Given the stakes of this game, I am willing to shelve my frustration and work with you until either you are killed to reduce free chaos in the playerset or I am killed as a threat.
H) The quoting issue was in regards to the time we have until deadline, nothing to do with TGP, whom I haven’t managed to sort yet.
I) I am also having difficulty sorting Shea

A quick scan of a few ISOs:

Zor looks fine to me. I have absolutely no idea what this wagon is about, aside from some of you pouting that he’s not doing what you want or expect. Hint: Anyone who yields to demands deserves suspicion, not trust.

NancyDrew is doing her usual petulant Town thing. She’s fine.

Norwegian is irritating the shit out of me, but jury’s out on whether it’s AI or not.

Flavor Leaf is unreadable so far. He always is. He is, however, too valuable if Town to be a D1 boot.

DEB is the only one who sticks out as distinctly suspicious so far.

I’ll reserve my vote for now, need to put those ISOs in context.

Shea, skimming through an ISO as short as mine really oughtn’t require multiple demands.

So you like Zor then? Maybe I should keep my vote where it is then? I just really feel strongly that TGP is scum and unlike Norwee, I think how a player interacts with you is possibly the most valuable information you can have.

I'm not really settled on Zor yet, but the reasons for voting for him and the people doing it have me really wary of the wagon. TGP might be a reasonable vote, but I think Akarin is more likely to flip scum.

What if I told you that things which are wrong from your perspective arent necessarily wrong from the perspective of people who aren't you? That's my biggest problem with your reasoning. All the other stuff besides that seems spot on.

Also I'm trying to decide if I'm voting pine or not. I don't think I'm willing to let them come in, do dick all while angrily shading me and then disengage from the game again.

I've been neither angry towards you, nor have I shaded you. I have shown healthy suspicion of you and disinterest in engaging in your aggressive rhetoric.

like honestly, i dont give a fuck at this point.

if you think i'm scum here, y'all hopeless

Couldn't agree more.

VOTE: Norwegian

My team's been helping out with reads while I flounder a bit catching up. Dannflor's money is on a Norwegian/Akarin/TGP scumteam, though I'm not sold on TGP. Jingle largely agrees though we talked about tracking the night kill, trying to figure out who would have shot BB. He's not an obvious shot, and that can really say a lot. It was a process of elimination, but we thought the person with the best combination of experience, perceived threat level, and teammates might be Mistyx.

I'm feeling pretty good about those reads. {Norwegian, Akarin} and one of {TGP, Mistyx} seems most likely.

I'll support that with Townreads -

Flavor Leaf and Nancy continue to be rock solid TRs for me.

Shea is playing recklessly and punishing people who aren't as invested in the game. I fucking hate that, and it's generally anti-Town, but the vigor of it suggests he's pursuing an aggressive attempt to sort. If he were flippant and actually

pursued

his shitty vendettas, it might be a scum veneer. He's not - he drops them as soon as he has a real lead. I can respect that.

Ramcius and Iconeum are harder to read, but playing generally to a pro-Town agenda.

DEB I haven't got a clue on.

TGP flipping scum doesn't incriminate norwee
it incriminates Pine

does anyone else see this?

btw that would also mean that norwee is town on basis of their Pine push alone

[Iconeum]

VOTE: TGP

[Iconeum]

ok another hot take

in a world with town!nancy, town!fl AND town!pine, which scumteam in their right minds shoots out of this bracket EVER?

that has to be suicide, even with a read on a potential pr crumb

i mean, pine's not getting shot. im probably not getting shot.

idk why we're considered most likely?

i would put you or Nancy.

i consider the 3 of you most likely night target shots because you *are*, imo, the 3 best players in this game without disrespect to anyone including myself here

i also value shooting the high caliber players over potential power role reads because of gamestate control

[Iconeum]

in this game right now, i'd think i am a likely N2 candidate as well because it's unlikely scum are getting my elim anytime soon

[Iconeum]

yes

[Iconeum]

it's pretty scummy that he isn't using the hood, but if he were scum and pushing FL (with norwee in my example) i would fully expect scum!TGP to be working me over a lot harder to support his FL push

[Iconeum]

i think it's only E-2?

[Iconeum]

it's pretty scummy that he isn't using the hood, but if he were scum and pushing FL (with norwee in my example) i would fully expect scum!TGP to be working me over a lot harder to support his FL push

So, you want flip TGP despite the fact that you think it's more likely he's town?

i think TGP is objectively scummy, and would like to see them flipped

however, i think a scum!TGP would actually be using the hood more if his intentions were indeed to get me to push FL alongside him (and potentially norwee)

[Iconeum]

it's pretty scummy that he isn't using the hood, but if he were scum and pushing FL (with norwee in my example) i would fully expect scum!TGP to be working me over a lot harder to support his FL push

Who is even trying to push FL right now though? So I don’t really understand this argument?

this was re the time where norwee pushed FL, I jumped on board and then TGP hopped into the fray as well

[Iconeum]

it's interesting that none of norwee/pine/fl actually wanna push TGP here

what do you make of that, Nancy/ram?

[Iconeum]

they'd compromise, i know

but it would be only that

[Iconeum]

all of norwee/Pine/FL are wasting their votes currently

we aren't yeeting in Norwee/Pine rn

TGP and DEB... a vote at this stage of the game would go a long way ya know

[Iconeum]

you can call me terrible all you want but when players start taking pushes so personally then the game stops being a game

if players really need to start insulting you on a personal level as a response to a push, no matter how shitty the push, then the game stops being a game for me

there was a lot wrong with this particular game, and i take my share of responsability - but holy fuck i did not like this playerlist at all

i have no personal beef with any of you outside of the Game of Mafia - but this was not a pleasant experience

/r

[Iconeum]

TSQ was prob the most obvscum tho lol

shows just how easily i can be pocketed sometimes

[Iconeum]

Spoiler:

Also I made this infographic that wasn't allowed to be proxy posted, and while this is pushing the incorrect scum!pine town!FL narrative I still feel it is a work of art

this almost makes up for the entire game lol