TM 2021 Large Normal 2: Wikipedia Integer Facts (Over)

[hercule]

well. i am feeling pretty fuckin mad about ABR ruining the game. I put way too much effort in for a goddamn scumflip. Town had the upperhand but mafia battled really fucking hard to get out of the ABR vs. Xtoxm situation and I think came out of it pretty well positioned in the thread. I was about to case the fuck out of mastina and hopefully we could have ended the day on a town elim. It was an uphill battle for us though. I'm happy with how both scum and town played.

that being said. might as well benefit from my previous scumflip by spewing myself town. that was about the hardest i've tried after a scumflip and it's because it was so important for the team mafia dynamics to get a town win. here were my tactics:

1. use unfamiliarity with my meta to do things that are easier for me to fake as scum: ISOs, precrunched analysis, and avoid interacting in realtime in the thread except to make jokes or push back on scumreads on my own slot

2. lean on my precrunched analysis to defend townreads on my partners or scumreads on town. avoid thinking on my feet and evaluating in realtime unless it's obviously necessary

3. avoid bussing except where absolutely possible (never was going to retract tr on cephrir, had to put reasonable doubt on ABR and xtoxm considering how likely it was they were limmed that game)

4. push on reads that conveniently ignore meta about slots and push the perspective that i don't know anyone and don't care about meta

5. use the fact that the game is large as an excuse to not have to form reads. when i'm town, reads simply come naturally to me. as scum, i have to go post by post and make sure that my reads make sense. as town, i simply vibe

and finally, the quintessential block of my entire scumgame

6. reacting strongly to objectively false comments in order to summon genuine emotion

for example, super forgot that I was scum and told me a read on ythan on page 1, so I used that to firmly push back on Ythan for saying I was lying - I wasn't

now, that being said, I am typing this up pre-flip. If you are seeing this, I am probably town. I don't think I would post this if I flip mafia, the WIFOM wouldn't be worth revealing my entire playbook.

also shoutout mastina, you may have thought xtoxm vs. abr was town vs. town but your scumreads on me and Cephrir made you an absolute threat and contributed to my decision to scumcase and push you right before the game was ruined

[hercule]

helloooooooooooooooooooo my friends it feels great to be here. i made a vocaroo reaction to my role pm but implosion said they would prefer for me not to post it so.

i will try to reel in the insufferably lamisty energy i exude but i do just want to express one thought that's fucking funny to me. i kept referring to my team as the 4/4 town gods last game cuz i told them i wanted everyone to embody our full team flipping town and let it seep into everyone's game cuz i was the only one who flipped mafia and i wanted to manifest myself as town. and then IT ACTUALLY HAPPENED lmaooo 4/4 town gods for real. they all got scumflips on d1 so time for us to do the same.

but still fuck ABR

[hercule]

VOTE: hercule

[hercule]

yeah hercule you snowed me really bad i had you in my top tier with oka hopkirk and unwnd.

bro i was trying probably harder than i've ever tried as scum i'm a little mad it got ruined

[hercule]

yeah hercule you snowed me really bad i had you in my top tier with oka hopkirk and unwnd.

bro i was trying probably harder than i've ever tried as scum i'm a little mad it got ruined

Don't worry you weren't going to make it very far.

well. i was feeling pretty good about the progress we made cuz the game was split, like people were SRing me for trying to box in xtoxm/abr and they thought it was tvt so we prob had some good interactions, but yeah that shit was an uphill battle

[hercule]

me have top sekrit meta read on hercule

ftr my team were briefed on hercule's scum meta and had we flipped xtoxm, hercule would have probably been bye bye, i will say koba gave us some tips on scum!hercule and even though dkkoba was like "he's town", everyone else on the team were like "but u just described his play this game"

no mention of that top sekrit thing in hercules wall so hehehehuehuehuehe

ahem then again the only reason why we wanted to flip hercule was because we thought xtoxm/hercule/mastina was it and i didn't want to push mastina

wait you scumread me the whole time???? damn

[hercule]

if there was one person i thought i pocketed it, it was okapoka. rip

[hercule]

ok well let's not play shit on hercule ok i am proud of how i did

[hercule]

me have top sekrit meta read on hercule

ftr my team were briefed on hercule's scum meta and had we flipped xtoxm, hercule would have probably been bye bye, i will say koba gave us some tips on scum!hercule and even though dkkoba was like "he's town", everyone else on the team were like "but u just described his play this game"

no mention of that top sekrit thing in hercules wall so hehehehuehuehuehe

ahem then again the only reason why we wanted to flip hercule was because we thought xtoxm/hercule/mastina was it and i didn't want to push mastina

wait you scumread me the whole time???? damn

the thing is if you read my iso that game i kept hinting at a fake townread and it was you lmao xd

but i really wanted to kill xtoxm and you were helping so i made a political choice

imagine making a picture of us as best friends and doing this to me. friendship with okapoka cancelled.

[hercule]

ok well let's not play shit on hercule ok i am proud of how i did

im complimenting you! that's how towny you were to me, i would've been sus if you weren't NK'd soon-ish lol.

one reason I TR'd you was from all your team interactions, i think that is like, wayyy more NAI than I thought it was previously, especially for a team like yours.

okie ty. yeah I literally was spamming them like guyssss i need you to scumhunt so people think we're townnn. spf kept giving me ISOs where she sr ceph though so i kept not sharing them LOL

[hercule]

VOTE: xtoxm

bro i'm so sorry you flipped mafia again that sucks.

[hercule]

town was very likely going to win, unless Cephrir/ABR started obvtowning. Xtoxm was a goner at some point and hercule was not enough and apparently others were sus of them so yeah

my reads were no better than a coinflip but oh well I don't expect much from myself d1! lol

pedit: Hopkirk you were amazing and ur towniness shined through like a beautiful beacon of pure townie energy

the fact that town kept tinfoiling towny ass ppl was the only possible saving grace.

[hercule]

world record any% speedrun time we are all gods of the game lets get that dub

hercule i promise u when i made that friendship poster i was townreading you

ceph snowed me though

we should keep an eye out on the warthog

well now i want to know what made you scumread me... and you're gonna want to not tell me until after THIS game...

[hercule]

ok well let's not play shit on hercule ok i am proud of how i did

im complimenting you! that's how towny you were to me, i would've been sus if you weren't NK'd soon-ish lol.

one reason I TR'd you was from all your team interactions, i think that is like, wayyy more NAI than I thought it was previously, especially for a team like yours.

okie ty. yeah I literally was spamming them like guyssss i need you to scumhunt so people think we're townnn. spf kept giving me ISOs where she sr ceph though so i kept not sharing them LOL

did you... try asking your team to case people who weren't scum with you? that feels like a communication error on your part tbh

uhhhh yeah idk i just wanted it to be natural, i figured natural sounding reads would sound better. like i asked spf to look at the towncore and she came back saying everyone was town but shes's sus of ceph so i'm like. k. what i'm supposed to do with this LOL. if i had a redo yeah i would prob be more direct in like "ok case this guy as scum"

[hercule]

did you... try asking your team to case people who weren't scum with you? that feels like a communication error on your part tbh

yah how does that work? i should really just view all team interaction stuff as NAI because clearly I have no fucking concept of what kinds of team interactions are town!indicative

well speaking from experience like, we had a lot more discussions in the team chat about other games because there was more stuff to discuss. there's less genuine interaction about reads when ur scum, cuz everyone has TMI. you can't just fake a full discussion (though i suppose someone could try to now that i've vocalized it). i asked a bit about what to do re: xtoxm vs abr, but like other than that it was more like pushing my team to ISO or case specific people, or just like proofreading my posts occasionally to make sure i didn't slip. ironically i asked petapan to read my ISOs and he's just like: "bruh post it no one is reading that shit" . none of us really were reading other games entirely except we were all particularly focused on black flag (which i think i can talk about now since it's done?) cuz super was getting really frustrated with how she was being treated and I really wanted to help her in particular

[hercule]

yes your team has to be aware of your alignment, your partners, and their roles. it's in the rules. super kind of slipped in her game cuz she already knew that lmaooo and that was cuz I had already tried to do the thing where they don't know roles but verified I can't. The thing is like spf would be like "i am pretty sure ceph is ur partner but im just trying to give my actual thoughts"

[hercule]

i like your style iv

[hercule]

i think the entire thread is entitled to a couple pages of shitposts all things considered

[hercule]

i just want ceph and xtoxm to log in and look me in the eyes and i will either see deep wells of sadness or we will have a cathartic embrace and then i will Know

[hercule]

i mean Mastina made it very clear that she reads the first X pages

can mastina pls solve the game already? that way we can quick-elim her scumreads and anyone she inexplicably hard townreads

i would laugh at her saying i was scum because xtoxm/abr was town/town but her lockscum reads on me and ceph was too powerful

[hercule]

wheres DGB i'm rly excited to play with them this game they were cracking me up. i was legit so flustered trying to figure out if they were being serious or not with their reads on me

[hercule]

what we should do is pick the most anti-memer player and put them on like 6-7 votes before they reach the thread. they'll enter the thread for the first time and see they're a massive wagon and they'll just hate us all so much

lowkey if we put 6 votes on xtoxm and they are scum they might s*b out when they check the thread

[hercule]

LOL i love it. xtoxm I n0 red checked you sorry bro

[hercule]

LOL i love it. xtoxm I n0 red checked you sorry bro

where's your vote?

i BEEN voting xtoxm. since u know, my n0 peek and all

[hercule]

this is a slightly weaksauce meme but i tried

[hercule]

hi dann idk if we interacted at all last game lmao, pretty sure I just had you pegged as an early nightkill

[hercule]

to be frank i probably won't even pretend to scumhunt for at least 24 hours

[hercule]

hi dann idk if we interacted at all last game lmao, pretty sure I just had you pegged as an early nightkill

I only interacted with other people about their read on you I think

Idk if we were never in the thread at the same time or what

i generally just tried to avoid interacting with anyone unless i specifically had to LOL

[hercule]

vibesaber

[hercule]

can you guys stop cluttering the thread with shit and non-game content? it's really fucking annoying when im trying to play this game for real and actually find scum.

yeah, seconding this. can anyone third it?

uhh no tbh it's coming across a bit whiny from innocentvillager, he already scumclaimed and knows the whole scumteam. so if anything i find the request condescending and obnoxious

[hercule]

can you guys stop cluttering the thread with shit and non-game content? it's really fucking annoying when im trying to play this game for real and actually find scum.

yeah, seconding this. can anyone third it?

uhh no tbh it's coming across a bit whiny from innocentvillager, he already scumclaimed and knows the whole scumteam. so if anything i find the request condescending and obnoxious

are you being sarcastic here?

yes... the fuck lmao

[hercule]

nah yeah i thought it was a real scumclaim and i just didn't vote him because i'm his partner so i'm actually mad at him

[hercule]

IN YO' FACE VOTE: Almost50 I was town and a PR

hi btw <3 i'm ready for some shenanigans this game. really up for shenanigans

[hercule]

wait what if i got drunk and obvtowned. this feels kinda broken

bruh i'll do it with you. maybe like tmro. LOL dude actually i'm so sad implosion won't let me do vocaroos i would post drunk vocaroos

[hercule]

technically he didn't say i can't, he said he would prefer if i didn't.... but i'm respectful of our host overlords

[hercule]

i think IV's soft was when he said he is rolefishing. his role is actually a fish, probably a sea bass.

[hercule]

not this thread opening right as I was about to dive into some work and then me being distracted for an hour plus. k. gonna extract myself. i trust that when i return it will be n1 after xtoxm was speedwagoned.

[hercule]

actually idk what the standard for announcing this is but I forgot my stepdad was staying over at my place tonight so I will be a good host and V/LA until tomorrow afternoon or so

[hercule]

wheres DGB i'm rly excited to play with them this game they were cracking me up. i was legit so flustered trying to figure out if they were being serious or not with their reads on me

I was serious but there was no momentum to yeet you, I put it on the backburner and called it a joke.

incredible

[hercule]

hercule should sheep me. He knows I'm good.

i rolled town this time and i'm so relieved

Yaknow what?

I actually believe it.

I'm more ambivalent on DGB (she could be town, could be scum, hard to tell for sure), but I legit buy that you're town here, so.

hercule
Hopkirk
innocentvillager
OkaPoka

jjh927
Cephrir
Ythan

Almost50
AGar (null--he did check in but didn't continue to post)
Winter Flakes (alt of Uncrowned)
DrippingGoofball (ambivalent--can see her as town or scum, not sure which)

Titus
Lady Lambdadelta
the worst

Dunnstral
Dannflor
Xtoxm

Locktown, townreads, various shade of nullread, candidates-for-fourth-scum, scum?

rvs read list inc <3

oh I guess I wasn't joking

Spoiler: serious rvs analysis time

coming into the game I was trying to keep an eye out for people who were quick to try and recreate the "vibes" of last game but either felt like they were forcing it or just felt distinctly different from last game in how they went about it. Very start of this game has ythan, hopkirk, okapoka, hercule, and IV talking the most. There's no actual content here but it's the type of memey early back and forth that creates (dare I say) good vibes between people and that scum wouldn't hate to establish a foothold in (like hercule had so pointedly done at the very beginning of last game).

off the bat I do agree that hercule feels different this game. He's less shy about directly interacting with people so far and I vaguely liked that he was the one that took the initiative on the meme xtoxm wagon. I don't think his change in approach or tone are things that he wouldn't necessarily be able to do as scum, and I think watching to see if he's able to keep this same type of energy up over a longer period of time will be most indicative for him, but for now I'm comfortable putting him slightly above everyone else.

ythan was who I originally landed on as feeling somewhat suspicious out of the starting meme/vibe/hangout group. just a purely gut reaction but he felt more on the outside looking in and #83 in particular just felt like kind of a forced way to match his energy to the thread. Reading back now though, I don't really see his posting so much as trying to cement himself within the vibes (whatever the hell that actually means) as just poking around rather nonchalantly. He doesn't post that much and doesn't seem particularly desperate to be "in the vibes" which is my new term for people trying to get themselves in the early meme town block I guess?

I actually do lean town on Hopkirk. I won't go into details but I was having a terrible day at work so I think it's at least a little town indicative that Hopkirk and Hectic were sensitive to me feeling a little more dour than usual today? At least, I feel like it should be town indicative. I'm not really giving the same points to Mastina given she came in after Hopkirk and her approach feels a little less curious/thoughtful than Hopkirk's wtr to my slot. although I don't scum read her.

innocent villager I ended up switching my vote to after just one too many posts that I felt were... a little forced? Like to me, the "hahaha I'm scum no I'm not let's be silly guys" stuff was fun for the first few pages but IV seemed intent on continuing it for just a bit longer. It just felt like it crossed the line of someone trying too hard to continue the vibing shit posts while also making it 100% explicit that "I'm just shit posting guys." I dunno, just slightly more self aware than everyone else who was casually shit posting.

It also felt like an intentional choice? Is that a right read IV? It stood out to me and I'm wondering if you were trying to accomplish something specific with the "guys I'm scum" shit posts or if you just didn't want to let go of the fun

Also I'm not sure I vibe with your jump on Cephrir as I think interpreting "don't post your reads list every page" as "Cephrir must hate mastina's reads" feels like just looking for something to attack

I don't have any real thoughts on anyone else yet. OkaPoka feels the same as last game but I don't think that actually means anything for their slot. I thought the worst's pop in was kind of weird on a gut level? but I assume that's just because duck hasn't read the game yet.

rvs read list inc <3

oh I guess I wasn't joking

Spoiler: serious rvs analysis time

coming into the game I was trying to keep an eye out for people who were quick to try and recreate the "vibes" of last game but either felt like they were forcing it or just felt distinctly different from last game in how they went about it. Very start of this game has ythan, hopkirk, okapoka, hercule, and IV talking the most. There's no actual content here but it's the type of memey early back and forth that creates (dare I say) good vibes between people and that scum wouldn't hate to establish a foothold in (like hercule had so pointedly done at the very beginning of last game).

off the bat I do agree that hercule feels different this game. He's less shy about directly interacting with people so far and I vaguely liked that he was the one that took the initiative on the meme xtoxm wagon. I don't think his change in approach or tone are things that he wouldn't necessarily be able to do as scum, and I think watching to see if he's able to keep this same type of energy up over a longer period of time will be most indicative for him, but for now I'm comfortable putting him slightly above everyone else.

ythan was who I originally landed on as feeling somewhat suspicious out of the starting meme/vibe/hangout group. just a purely gut reaction but he felt more on the outside looking in and #83 in particular just felt like kind of a forced way to match his energy to the thread. Reading back now though, I don't really see his posting so much as trying to cement himself within the vibes (whatever the hell that actually means) as just poking around rather nonchalantly. He doesn't post that much and doesn't seem particularly desperate to be "in the vibes" which is my new term for people trying to get themselves in the early meme town block I guess?

I actually do lean town on Hopkirk. I won't go into details but I was having a terrible day at work so I think it's at least a little town indicative that Hopkirk and Hectic were sensitive to me feeling a little more dour than usual today? At least, I feel like it should be town indicative. I'm not really giving the same points to Mastina given she came in after Hopkirk and her approach feels a little less curious/thoughtful than Hopkirk's wtr to my slot. although I don't scum read her.

innocent villager I ended up switching my vote to after just one too many posts that I felt were... a little forced? Like to me, the "hahaha I'm scum no I'm not let's be silly guys" stuff was fun for the first few pages but IV seemed intent on continuing it for just a bit longer. It just felt like it crossed the line of someone trying too hard to continue the vibing shit posts while also making it 100% explicit that "I'm just shit posting guys." I dunno, just slightly more self aware than everyone else who was casually shit posting.

It also felt like an intentional choice? Is that a right read IV? It stood out to me and I'm wondering if you were trying to accomplish something specific with the "guys I'm scum" shit posts or if you just didn't want to let go of the fun

Also I'm not sure I vibe with your jump on Cephrir as I think interpreting "don't post your reads list every page" as "Cephrir must hate mastina's reads" feels like just looking for something to attack

I don't have any real thoughts on anyone else yet. OkaPoka feels the same as last game but I don't think that actually means anything for their slot. I thought the worst's pop in was kind of weird on a gut level? but I assume that's just because duck hasn't read the game yet.

This is a thoughtful post and I agree with the contents

I don't think there's a lot to get good reads off of before this post

I'm open to Cephrir being town this time but he's going to have to show it in a way that I can interpret, because his current posting makes me want to say don't townread him so fast

Though I can understand him not liking mastina being a real thought, even from last game where he was scum

rvs read list inc <3

oh I guess I wasn't joking

Spoiler: serious rvs analysis time

coming into the game I was trying to keep an eye out for people who were quick to try and recreate the "vibes" of last game but either felt like they were forcing it or just felt distinctly different from last game in how they went about it. Very start of this game has ythan, hopkirk, okapoka, hercule, and IV talking the most. There's no actual content here but it's the type of memey early back and forth that creates (dare I say) good vibes between people and that scum wouldn't hate to establish a foothold in (like hercule had so pointedly done at the very beginning of last game).

off the bat I do agree that hercule feels different this game. He's less shy about directly interacting with people so far and I vaguely liked that he was the one that took the initiative on the meme xtoxm wagon. I don't think his change in approach or tone are things that he wouldn't necessarily be able to do as scum, and I think watching to see if he's able to keep this same type of energy up over a longer period of time will be most indicative for him, but for now I'm comfortable putting him slightly above everyone else.

ythan was who I originally landed on as feeling somewhat suspicious out of the starting meme/vibe/hangout group. just a purely gut reaction but he felt more on the outside looking in and #83 in particular just felt like kind of a forced way to match his energy to the thread. Reading back now though, I don't really see his posting so much as trying to cement himself within the vibes (whatever the hell that actually means) as just poking around rather nonchalantly. He doesn't post that much and doesn't seem particularly desperate to be "in the vibes" which is my new term for people trying to get themselves in the early meme town block I guess?

I actually do lean town on Hopkirk. I won't go into details but I was having a terrible day at work so I think it's at least a little town indicative that Hopkirk and Hectic were sensitive to me feeling a little more dour than usual today? At least, I feel like it should be town indicative. I'm not really giving the same points to Mastina given she came in after Hopkirk and her approach feels a little less curious/thoughtful than Hopkirk's wtr to my slot. although I don't scum read her.

innocent villager I ended up switching my vote to after just one too many posts that I felt were... a little forced? Like to me, the "hahaha I'm scum no I'm not let's be silly guys" stuff was fun for the first few pages but IV seemed intent on continuing it for just a bit longer. It just felt like it crossed the line of someone trying too hard to continue the vibing shit posts while also making it 100% explicit that "I'm just shit posting guys." I dunno, just slightly more self aware than everyone else who was casually shit posting.

It also felt like an intentional choice? Is that a right read IV? It stood out to me and I'm wondering if you were trying to accomplish something specific with the "guys I'm scum" shit posts or if you just didn't want to let go of the fun

Also I'm not sure I vibe with your jump on Cephrir as I think interpreting "don't post your reads list every page" as "Cephrir must hate mastina's reads" feels like just looking for something to attack

I don't have any real thoughts on anyone else yet. OkaPoka feels the same as last game but I don't think that actually means anything for their slot. I thought the worst's pop in was kind of weird on a gut level? but I assume that's just because duck hasn't read the game yet.

This is a thoughtful post and I agree with the contents

While I do agree it is fairly thoughtful and the contents are objectively decent-to-good, it is very much: not a townpost.

In fact I'm

pretty

sure this is a Dann-scum post. In like...the 90% percentile range--it's not a lockscum beyond all shadow of doubt lockscum post from Dann, but I'm PRETTY sure it's Dann as scum here.

While I do agree it is fairly thoughtful and the contents are objectively decent-to-good, it is very much: not a townpost.

In fact I'm pretty sure this is a Dann-scum post. In like...the 90% percentile range--it's not a lockscum beyond all shadow of doubt lockscum post from Dann, but I'm PRETTY sure it's Dann as scum here.

can you expound on that with anything specific?

rvs read list inc <3

oh I guess I wasn't joking

Spoiler: serious rvs analysis time

coming into the game I was trying to keep an eye out for people who were quick to try and recreate the "vibes" of last game but either felt like they were forcing it or just felt distinctly different from last game in how they went about it. Very start of this game has ythan, hopkirk, okapoka, hercule, and IV talking the most. There's no actual content here but it's the type of memey early back and forth that creates (dare I say) good vibes between people and that scum wouldn't hate to establish a foothold in (like hercule had so pointedly done at the very beginning of last game).

off the bat I do agree that hercule feels different this game. He's less shy about directly interacting with people so far and I vaguely liked that he was the one that took the initiative on the meme xtoxm wagon. I don't think his change in approach or tone are things that he wouldn't necessarily be able to do as scum, and I think watching to see if he's able to keep this same type of energy up over a longer period of time will be most indicative for him, but for now I'm comfortable putting him slightly above everyone else.

ythan was who I originally landed on as feeling somewhat suspicious out of the starting meme/vibe/hangout group. just a purely gut reaction but he felt more on the outside looking in and #83 in particular just felt like kind of a forced way to match his energy to the thread. Reading back now though, I don't really see his posting so much as trying to cement himself within the vibes (whatever the hell that actually means) as just poking around rather nonchalantly. He doesn't post that much and doesn't seem particularly desperate to be "in the vibes" which is my new term for people trying to get themselves in the early meme town block I guess?

I actually do lean town on Hopkirk. I won't go into details but I was having a terrible day at work so I think it's at least a little town indicative that Hopkirk and Hectic were sensitive to me feeling a little more dour than usual today? At least, I feel like it should be town indicative. I'm not really giving the same points to Mastina given she came in after Hopkirk and her approach feels a little less curious/thoughtful than Hopkirk's wtr to my slot. although I don't scum read her.

innocent villager I ended up switching my vote to after just one too many posts that I felt were... a little forced? Like to me, the "hahaha I'm scum no I'm not let's be silly guys" stuff was fun for the first few pages but IV seemed intent on continuing it for just a bit longer. It just felt like it crossed the line of someone trying too hard to continue the vibing shit posts while also making it 100% explicit that "I'm just shit posting guys." I dunno, just slightly more self aware than everyone else who was casually shit posting.

It also felt like an intentional choice? Is that a right read IV? It stood out to me and I'm wondering if you were trying to accomplish something specific with the "guys I'm scum" shit posts or if you just didn't want to let go of the fun

Also I'm not sure I vibe with your jump on Cephrir as I think interpreting "don't post your reads list every page" as "Cephrir must hate mastina's reads" feels like just looking for something to attack

I don't have any real thoughts on anyone else yet. OkaPoka feels the same as last game but I don't think that actually means anything for their slot. I thought the worst's pop in was kind of weird on a gut level? but I assume that's just because duck hasn't read the game yet.

Hercule was also quick to gain townreads early last game

If he rolled scum again he could easily look different to look town

People started cluing in on him as the game went on and discussion about other peoples' alignments started

What I'm trying to say is that reading him off tone on the first few pages is a bad idea, again

(It helps Hercule's entrance was garbage, but honestly I was just waiting to Mastina to post one of these lists so I can do my standard Mastina play which is just to eliminate players in inverse order of her preference.)

It wins the game more than it loses the game, and that's a fact.

the thing is i can see hercule prewriting his entrance idk if that makes him scum but it makes him a nerd

helloooooooooooooooooooo my friends it feels great to be here. i made a vocaroo reaction to my role pm but implosion said they would prefer for me not to post it so.

i will try to reel in the insufferably lamisty energy i exude but i do just want to express one thought that's fucking funny to me. i kept referring to my team as the 4/4 town gods last game cuz i told them i wanted everyone to embody our full team flipping town and let it seep into everyone's game cuz i was the only one who flipped mafia and i wanted to manifest myself as town. and then IT ACTUALLY HAPPENED lmaooo 4/4 town gods for real. they all got scumflips on d1 so time for us to do the same.

but still fuck ABR

this is the more damning post in my mind. Pre-writing is one thing if you don;t know your alignment, but this post has to have come post alignment knowledge by definition.

And it's fucking attrocious.

the thing is i can see hercule prewriting his entrance idk if that makes him scum but it makes him a nerd

Like to be clear, I could also see him prewriting that opening post, which admittedly would only be a thing that matters if he did not know his alignment at the time.

But the second post is the more damning one, and is in stark contrast to the first post as feeling far more improvisational, despite referencing an event that occurred before the thread opening.

It is guaranteed to have been done and known post alignment knowledge, which makes it alignment indicative, so we can toss aside concerns of NAI/Neutrality in favour of looking at it with a lens.

if hercule pre-wrote the entrance post then why did he post it if he's scum? saying he prewrote implies he genuinely believes that scum!him will not post that. if he's scum, he either had a change of heart and went "ehh, i'll post it anyway bc LOL" or he changed it somehow.

you can't just toss it aside and pretend it doesn't exist because he prewrote it.

If he pre-wrote it prior to knowing his alignment, it wouldn't have any tone leakage. If he is scum and chose to post it anyway, it would be for that reason and as a good entry cover to not get early wagoned.

If he's town, he does it because he wanted to post it.

and as both alignments, if he did work on it, he'd like it to see the light of day

so essentially, the first post, if written prior to seeing alignment, is unusable to read him on because even the logic for "why post it as scum" is easily found and also wifom.

Your post here is effectively contentless, because this is a prima facie concept and should be grasped simply. Why did you miss this, and why did you think it was a good idea to challenge in this way? What were you gaining?

Note that the second post is exempt from this above logic BECAUSE IT IS CONFIRMABLE that by this point he has known his alignment, prewritten or NOT.

the more i read the more im thinking im the idiot here for not grasping what you are saying and that we might be talking past each other on hercule's 1st post

I've read hercule's 2nd post and I don't get the "fucking awful" vibes that you are getting from it. He probably didn't prewrite the 2nd post so that's why it seems improvisational and I think it's fine if it references his voice reaction from 12h ago or whatever?

idk, im pretty mixed on hercule especially now that everyone is shading them but it's not like, unexpected shade to me given his posting style i guess

well i guess maybe the best way to describe my thoughts on hercule:

his first posts feel a lil performative

im starting to think the whole "i wouldn't post this as scum" thing is most likely either a) B.S. he came up with post-PM or b) something hercule actually thought on first-draft, and if he rolled scum he re-evaluated it from a scum perspective and still decided to post it

so I don't think it's that likely scum!him scrapped his whole post anymore

the idea is that with a playstyle that open, eventually town is probably going to ask you for your scum!approach last game anyway and it looks better if you pre-emptively post it yourself

but yeah maybe we can wait for hercule for more color. i enjoyed being the annoying hyperposting kitty for one day but it's time to sleep and lurk out the rest of the game

i'm like midway through catching up and i keep adding stuff to my multi-quote and i feel like this was a foolish tactic cuz im gonna end up with like 100 quotes lmao

[hercule]

oops i didn't even mean to POST THEM WTF lmaooooooooooooooo

[hercule]

i thought i could quick reply and then they would stay in my big post area....... ok gimme a sec

[hercule]

hercule should sheep me. He knows I'm good.

true my thought on innocentvillager at this point is that his tone seems different than last game (more jokey / memey). i will prob have to do a direct comparison though because my perception is skewed by the fact i was mafia last game and therefore read everyone's tone as town

i rolled town this time and i'm so relieved

Yaknow what?

I actually believe it.

I'm more ambivalent on DGB (she could be town, could be scum, hard to tell for sure), but I legit buy that you're town here, so.

hercule
Hopkirk
innocentvillager
OkaPoka

jjh927
Cephrir
Ythan

Almost50
AGar (null--he did check in but didn't continue to post)
Winter Flakes (alt of Uncrowned)
DrippingGoofball (ambivalent--can see her as town or scum, not sure which)

Titus
Lady Lambdadelta
the worst

Dunnstral
Dannflor
Xtoxm

Locktown, townreads, various shade of nullread, candidates-for-fourth-scum, scum?

@mastina i was planning to push on you last game for saying stuff like this so i'm aware this could be your towngame, but now that I have to figure out your alignment I need to know: how can you possibly call anyone locktown this early? what does that mean to you? give me a little insight into how you approach scumhunting in a game like this

rvs read list inc <3

oh I guess I wasn't joking

Spoiler: serious rvs analysis time

coming into the game I was trying to keep an eye out for people who were quick to try and recreate the "vibes" of last game but either felt like they were forcing it or just felt distinctly different from last game in how they went about it. Very start of this game has ythan, hopkirk, okapoka, hercule, and IV talking the most. There's no actual content here but it's the type of memey early back and forth that creates (dare I say) good vibes between people and that scum wouldn't hate to establish a foothold in (like hercule had so pointedly done at the very beginning of last game).

off the bat I do agree that hercule feels different this game. He's less shy about directly interacting with people so far and I vaguely liked that he was the one that took the initiative on the meme xtoxm wagon. I don't think his change in approach or tone are things that he wouldn't necessarily be able to do as scum, and I think watching to see if he's able to keep this same type of energy up over a longer period of time will be most indicative for him, but for now I'm comfortable putting him slightly above everyone else.

ythan was who I originally landed on as feeling somewhat suspicious out of the starting meme/vibe/hangout group. just a purely gut reaction but he felt more on the outside looking in and #83 in particular just felt like kind of a forced way to match his energy to the thread. Reading back now though, I don't really see his posting so much as trying to cement himself within the vibes (whatever the hell that actually means) as just poking around rather nonchalantly. He doesn't post that much and doesn't seem particularly desperate to be "in the vibes" which is my new term for people trying to get themselves in the early meme town block I guess?

I actually do lean town on Hopkirk. I won't go into details but I was having a terrible day at work so I think it's at least a little town indicative that Hopkirk and Hectic were sensitive to me feeling a little more dour than usual today? At least, I feel like it should be town indicative. I'm not really giving the same points to Mastina given she came in after Hopkirk and her approach feels a little less curious/thoughtful than Hopkirk's wtr to my slot. although I don't scum read her.

innocent villager I ended up switching my vote to after just one too many posts that I felt were... a little forced? Like to me, the "hahaha I'm scum no I'm not let's be silly guys" stuff was fun for the first few pages but IV seemed intent on continuing it for just a bit longer. It just felt like it crossed the line of someone trying too hard to continue the vibing shit posts while also making it 100% explicit that "I'm just shit posting guys." I dunno, just slightly more self aware than everyone else who was casually shit posting.

It also felt like an intentional choice? Is that a right read IV? It stood out to me and I'm wondering if you were trying to accomplish something specific with the "guys I'm scum" shit posts or if you just didn't want to let go of the fun

Also I'm not sure I vibe with your jump on Cephrir as I think interpreting "don't post your reads list every page" as "Cephrir must hate mastina's reads" feels like just looking for something to attack

I don't have any real thoughts on anyone else yet. OkaPoka feels the same as last game but I don't think that actually means anything for their slot. I thought the worst's pop in was kind of weird on a gut level? but I assume that's just because duck hasn't read the game yet.

i townlean hop as well, peta had told me they hadn't been mafia in years and I think their intro would have been more stilted or forced as scum. verdict is out on iv. ceph I think seems very similar in tone to last game, I would have expected a bit more visible excitement to flip town but I'm considering to possibly just be their personality for now.

one thing about this post though: I had the exact same thought. I feel like it's pretty obvious that we have a previous game to compare and that scum are going to have to try to emulate their towngame from last game. Idk if the observation itself is that towny to me.

rvs read list inc <3

oh I guess I wasn't joking

Spoiler: serious rvs analysis time

coming into the game I was trying to keep an eye out for people who were quick to try and recreate the "vibes" of last game but either felt like they were forcing it or just felt distinctly different from last game in how they went about it. Very start of this game has ythan, hopkirk, okapoka, hercule, and IV talking the most. There's no actual content here but it's the type of memey early back and forth that creates (dare I say) good vibes between people and that scum wouldn't hate to establish a foothold in (like hercule had so pointedly done at the very beginning of last game).

off the bat I do agree that hercule feels different this game. He's less shy about directly interacting with people so far and I vaguely liked that he was the one that took the initiative on the meme xtoxm wagon. I don't think his change in approach or tone are things that he wouldn't necessarily be able to do as scum, and I think watching to see if he's able to keep this same type of energy up over a longer period of time will be most indicative for him, but for now I'm comfortable putting him slightly above everyone else.

ythan was who I originally landed on as feeling somewhat suspicious out of the starting meme/vibe/hangout group. just a purely gut reaction but he felt more on the outside looking in and #83 in particular just felt like kind of a forced way to match his energy to the thread. Reading back now though, I don't really see his posting so much as trying to cement himself within the vibes (whatever the hell that actually means) as just poking around rather nonchalantly. He doesn't post that much and doesn't seem particularly desperate to be "in the vibes" which is my new term for people trying to get themselves in the early meme town block I guess?

I actually do lean town on Hopkirk. I won't go into details but I was having a terrible day at work so I think it's at least a little town indicative that Hopkirk and Hectic were sensitive to me feeling a little more dour than usual today? At least, I feel like it should be town indicative. I'm not really giving the same points to Mastina given she came in after Hopkirk and her approach feels a little less curious/thoughtful than Hopkirk's wtr to my slot. although I don't scum read her.

innocent villager I ended up switching my vote to after just one too many posts that I felt were... a little forced? Like to me, the "hahaha I'm scum no I'm not let's be silly guys" stuff was fun for the first few pages but IV seemed intent on continuing it for just a bit longer. It just felt like it crossed the line of someone trying too hard to continue the vibing shit posts while also making it 100% explicit that "I'm just shit posting guys." I dunno, just slightly more self aware than everyone else who was casually shit posting.

It also felt like an intentional choice? Is that a right read IV? It stood out to me and I'm wondering if you were trying to accomplish something specific with the "guys I'm scum" shit posts or if you just didn't want to let go of the fun

Also I'm not sure I vibe with your jump on Cephrir as I think interpreting "don't post your reads list every page" as "Cephrir must hate mastina's reads" feels like just looking for something to attack

I don't have any real thoughts on anyone else yet. OkaPoka feels the same as last game but I don't think that actually means anything for their slot. I thought the worst's pop in was kind of weird on a gut level? but I assume that's just because duck hasn't read the game yet.

This is a thoughtful post and I agree with the contents

I don't think there's a lot to get good reads off of before this post

I'm open to Cephrir being town this time but he's going to have to show it in a way that I can interpret, because his current posting makes me want to say don't townread him so fast

Though I can understand him not liking mastina being a real thought, even from last game where he was scum

I don't know why I quoted this, maybe I was going to say what I said above about not sure how town indicative the thoughts contained tin the post were.

rvs read list inc <3

oh I guess I wasn't joking

Spoiler: serious rvs analysis time

coming into the game I was trying to keep an eye out for people who were quick to try and recreate the "vibes" of last game but either felt like they were forcing it or just felt distinctly different from last game in how they went about it. Very start of this game has ythan, hopkirk, okapoka, hercule, and IV talking the most. There's no actual content here but it's the type of memey early back and forth that creates (dare I say) good vibes between people and that scum wouldn't hate to establish a foothold in (like hercule had so pointedly done at the very beginning of last game).

off the bat I do agree that hercule feels different this game. He's less shy about directly interacting with people so far and I vaguely liked that he was the one that took the initiative on the meme xtoxm wagon. I don't think his change in approach or tone are things that he wouldn't necessarily be able to do as scum, and I think watching to see if he's able to keep this same type of energy up over a longer period of time will be most indicative for him, but for now I'm comfortable putting him slightly above everyone else.

ythan was who I originally landed on as feeling somewhat suspicious out of the starting meme/vibe/hangout group. just a purely gut reaction but he felt more on the outside looking in and #83 in particular just felt like kind of a forced way to match his energy to the thread. Reading back now though, I don't really see his posting so much as trying to cement himself within the vibes (whatever the hell that actually means) as just poking around rather nonchalantly. He doesn't post that much and doesn't seem particularly desperate to be "in the vibes" which is my new term for people trying to get themselves in the early meme town block I guess?

I actually do lean town on Hopkirk. I won't go into details but I was having a terrible day at work so I think it's at least a little town indicative that Hopkirk and Hectic were sensitive to me feeling a little more dour than usual today? At least, I feel like it should be town indicative. I'm not really giving the same points to Mastina given she came in after Hopkirk and her approach feels a little less curious/thoughtful than Hopkirk's wtr to my slot. although I don't scum read her.

innocent villager I ended up switching my vote to after just one too many posts that I felt were... a little forced? Like to me, the "hahaha I'm scum no I'm not let's be silly guys" stuff was fun for the first few pages but IV seemed intent on continuing it for just a bit longer. It just felt like it crossed the line of someone trying too hard to continue the vibing shit posts while also making it 100% explicit that "I'm just shit posting guys." I dunno, just slightly more self aware than everyone else who was casually shit posting.

It also felt like an intentional choice? Is that a right read IV? It stood out to me and I'm wondering if you were trying to accomplish something specific with the "guys I'm scum" shit posts or if you just didn't want to let go of the fun

Also I'm not sure I vibe with your jump on Cephrir as I think interpreting "don't post your reads list every page" as "Cephrir must hate mastina's reads" feels like just looking for something to attack

I don't have any real thoughts on anyone else yet. OkaPoka feels the same as last game but I don't think that actually means anything for their slot. I thought the worst's pop in was kind of weird on a gut level? but I assume that's just because duck hasn't read the game yet.

This is a thoughtful post and I agree with the contents

While I do agree it is fairly thoughtful and the contents are objectively decent-to-good, it is very much: not a townpost.

In fact I'm

pretty

sure this is a Dann-scum post. In like...the 90% percentile range--it's not a lockscum beyond all shadow of doubt lockscum post from Dann, but I'm PRETTY sure it's Dann as scum here.

can you give some more detail on why you think it's a dann-scum post? I do value meta but only when it's explained in a way that's digestible for me.

While I do agree it is fairly thoughtful and the contents are objectively decent-to-good, it is very much: not a townpost.

In fact I'm pretty sure this is a Dann-scum post. In like...the 90% percentile range--it's not a lockscum beyond all shadow of doubt lockscum post from Dann, but I'm PRETTY sure it's Dann as scum here.

can you expound on that with anything specific?

lol well I know why I quoted this one then

rvs read list inc <3

oh I guess I wasn't joking

Spoiler: serious rvs analysis time

coming into the game I was trying to keep an eye out for people who were quick to try and recreate the "vibes" of last game but either felt like they were forcing it or just felt distinctly different from last game in how they went about it. Very start of this game has ythan, hopkirk, okapoka, hercule, and IV talking the most. There's no actual content here but it's the type of memey early back and forth that creates (dare I say) good vibes between people and that scum wouldn't hate to establish a foothold in (like hercule had so pointedly done at the very beginning of last game).

off the bat I do agree that hercule feels different this game. He's less shy about directly interacting with people so far and I vaguely liked that he was the one that took the initiative on the meme xtoxm wagon. I don't think his change in approach or tone are things that he wouldn't necessarily be able to do as scum, and I think watching to see if he's able to keep this same type of energy up over a longer period of time will be most indicative for him, but for now I'm comfortable putting him slightly above everyone else.

ythan was who I originally landed on as feeling somewhat suspicious out of the starting meme/vibe/hangout group. just a purely gut reaction but he felt more on the outside looking in and #83 in particular just felt like kind of a forced way to match his energy to the thread. Reading back now though, I don't really see his posting so much as trying to cement himself within the vibes (whatever the hell that actually means) as just poking around rather nonchalantly. He doesn't post that much and doesn't seem particularly desperate to be "in the vibes" which is my new term for people trying to get themselves in the early meme town block I guess?

I actually do lean town on Hopkirk. I won't go into details but I was having a terrible day at work so I think it's at least a little town indicative that Hopkirk and Hectic were sensitive to me feeling a little more dour than usual today? At least, I feel like it should be town indicative. I'm not really giving the same points to Mastina given she came in after Hopkirk and her approach feels a little less curious/thoughtful than Hopkirk's wtr to my slot. although I don't scum read her.

innocent villager I ended up switching my vote to after just one too many posts that I felt were... a little forced? Like to me, the "hahaha I'm scum no I'm not let's be silly guys" stuff was fun for the first few pages but IV seemed intent on continuing it for just a bit longer. It just felt like it crossed the line of someone trying too hard to continue the vibing shit posts while also making it 100% explicit that "I'm just shit posting guys." I dunno, just slightly more self aware than everyone else who was casually shit posting.

It also felt like an intentional choice? Is that a right read IV? It stood out to me and I'm wondering if you were trying to accomplish something specific with the "guys I'm scum" shit posts or if you just didn't want to let go of the fun

Also I'm not sure I vibe with your jump on Cephrir as I think interpreting "don't post your reads list every page" as "Cephrir must hate mastina's reads" feels like just looking for something to attack

I don't have any real thoughts on anyone else yet. OkaPoka feels the same as last game but I don't think that actually means anything for their slot. I thought the worst's pop in was kind of weird on a gut level? but I assume that's just because duck hasn't read the game yet.

Hercule was also quick to gain townreads early last game

If he rolled scum again he could easily look different to look town

People started cluing in on him as the game went on and discussion about other peoples' alignments started

What I'm trying to say is that reading him off tone on the first few pages is a bad idea, again

noted

(It helps Hercule's entrance was garbage, but honestly I was just waiting to Mastina to post one of these lists so I can do my standard Mastina play which is just to eliminate players in inverse order of her preference.)

It wins the game more than it loses the game, and that's a fact.

the thing is i can see hercule prewriting his entrance idk if that makes him scum but it makes him a nerd

helloooooooooooooooooooo my friends it feels great to be here. i made a vocaroo reaction to my role pm but implosion said they would prefer for me not to post it so.

i will try to reel in the insufferably lamisty energy i exude but i do just want to express one thought that's fucking funny to me. i kept referring to my team as the 4/4 town gods last game cuz i told them i wanted everyone to embody our full team flipping town and let it seep into everyone's game cuz i was the only one who flipped mafia and i wanted to manifest myself as town. and then IT ACTUALLY HAPPENED lmaooo 4/4 town gods for real. they all got scumflips on d1 so time for us to do the same.

but still fuck ABR

this is the more damning post in my mind. Pre-writing is one thing if you don;t know your alignment, but this post has to have come post alignment knowledge by definition.

And it's fucking attrocious.

the thing is i can see hercule prewriting his entrance idk if that makes him scum but it makes him a nerd

Like to be clear, I could also see him prewriting that opening post, which admittedly would only be a thing that matters if he did not know his alignment at the time.

But the second post is the more damning one, and is in stark contrast to the first post as feeling far more improvisational, despite referencing an event that occurred before the thread opening.

It is guaranteed to have been done and known post alignment knowledge, which makes it alignment indicative, so we can toss aside concerns of NAI/Neutrality in favour of looking at it with a lens.

I wanted to put these together. @Lady can you explain what you think is atrocious about that post? I have more to say but I want to hear you out first.

Sidenote I am a nerd yes. A big ole mafia nerd.

if hercule pre-wrote the entrance post then why did he post it if he's scum? saying he prewrote implies he genuinely believes that scum!him will not post that. if he's scum, he either had a change of heart and went "ehh, i'll post it anyway bc LOL" or he changed it somehow.

you can't just toss it aside and pretend it doesn't exist because he prewrote it.

If he pre-wrote it prior to knowing his alignment, it wouldn't have any tone leakage. If he is scum and chose to post it anyway, it would be for that reason and as a good entry cover to not get early wagoned.

If he's town, he does it because he wanted to post it.

and as both alignments, if he did work on it, he'd like it to see the light of day

so essentially, the first post, if written prior to seeing alignment, is unusable to read him on because even the logic for "why post it as scum" is easily found and also wifom.

Your post here is effectively contentless, because this is a prima facie concept and should be grasped simply. Why did you miss this, and why did you think it was a good idea to challenge in this way? What were you gaining?

Note that the second post is exempt from this above logic BECAUSE IT IS CONFIRMABLE that by this point he has known his alignment, prewritten or NOT.

I am honestly a bit surprised that my entry post is getting this much attention. It wasn't intended to have any immediate effects, rather to just lay bare my entire scum playstyle for comparison against the entirety of this game. I wouldn't have posted it as scum because it would have forced me to change my playstyle completely in a way that I'm not comfortable doing, or just wifom and hope no one actually analyzed what I said but... that would be a bit dangerous. There is some crossover between my town and scum playstyle where I try to emulate my town playstyle as scum, but I really didn't have to do any of that specifically in the first game considering no one had meta on me. I just tried to play my best scumgame.

the more i read the more im thinking im the idiot here for not grasping what you are saying and that we might be talking past each other on hercule's 1st post

I've read hercule's 2nd post and I don't get the "fucking awful" vibes that you are getting from it. He probably didn't prewrite the 2nd post so that's why it seems improvisational and I think it's fine if it references his voice reaction from 12h ago or whatever?

idk, im pretty mixed on hercule especially now that everyone is shading them but it's not like, unexpected shade to me given his posting style i guess

yeah I wrote the second post right on the spot. idk why I quoted this I feel like I had a reason but I don't really have any thoughts on it now.

well i guess maybe the best way to describe my thoughts on hercule:

his first posts feel a lil performative

that's just my style my man

im starting to think the whole "i wouldn't post this as scum" thing is most likely either a) B.S. he came up with post-PM or b) something hercule actually thought on first-draft, and if he rolled scum he re-evaluated it from a scum perspective and still decided to post it

so I don't think it's that likely scum!him scrapped his whole post anymore

the idea is that with a playstyle that open, eventually town is probably going to ask you for your scum!approach last game anyway and it looks better if you pre-emptively post it yourself

but yeah maybe we can wait for hercule for more color. i enjoyed being the annoying hyperposting kitty for one day but it's time to sleep and lurk out the rest of the game

bruh you know what I should have just said nothing. here I am tryna help y'all read me by giving away my entire scum playbook and u rly think it's possible I completely made it up. anyway yeah it's completely made up, my ACTUAL scum meta is that i always self-vote at the start of d2 as scum. every single time. if i don't self-vote at the start of D2 then i'm town. 100%. but only on mafiascum. that's my mafiascum scum meta.

VOTE: Cephrir

Well I'm never fucking listening to my teammates again.

Not a bad start

Morning friends.

This is a scum claim already. You're implicitly admitting to being "night enemies" to everyone.

VOTE: Cephrir

Well I'm never fucking listening to my teammates again.

Tbh I would've tunneled them more too if your teammates didn't hardtown Cephrir

My team's the best. We don't talk AT ALL.

Fuck I fucked up a pronoun already *him*

FTR, my pronoun is qewvueahb e'pjyp ns' ]tl / rup oouph /lm nmblbnbi

I will definitely report anyone who uses the wring pronoun too.

Spoiler: This is absolute BS

well. i am feeling pretty fuckin mad about ABR ruining the game. I put way too much effort in for a goddamn scumflip. Town had the upperhand but mafia battled really fucking hard to get out of the ABR vs. Xtoxm situation and I think came out of it pretty well positioned in the thread. I was about to case the fuck out of mastina and hopefully we could have ended the day on a town elim. It was an uphill battle for us though. I'm happy with how both scum and town played.

that being said. might as well benefit from my previous scumflip by spewing myself town. that was about the hardest i've tried after a scumflip and it's because it was so important for the team mafia dynamics to get a town win. here were my tactics:

1. use unfamiliarity with my meta to do things that are easier for me to fake as scum: ISOs, precrunched analysis, and avoid interacting in realtime in the thread except to make jokes or push back on scumreads on my own slot

2. lean on my precrunched analysis to defend townreads on my partners or scumreads on town. avoid thinking on my feet and evaluating in realtime unless it's obviously necessary

3. avoid bussing except where absolutely possible (never was going to retract tr on cephrir, had to put reasonable doubt on ABR and xtoxm considering how likely it was they were limmed that game)

4. push on reads that conveniently ignore meta about slots and push the perspective that i don't know anyone and don't care about meta

5. use the fact that the game is large as an excuse to not have to form reads. when i'm town, reads simply come naturally to me. as scum, i have to go post by post and make sure that my reads make sense. as town, i simply vibe

and finally, the quintessential block of my entire scumgame

6. reacting strongly to objectively false comments in order to summon genuine emotion

for example, super forgot that I was scum and told me a read on ythan on page 1, so I used that to firmly push back on Ythan for saying I was lying - I wasn't

now, that being said, I am typing this up pre-flip. If you are seeing this, I am probably town. I don't think I would post this if I flip mafia, the WIFOM wouldn't be worth revealing my entire playbook.

also shoutout mastina, you may have thought xtoxm vs. abr was town vs. town but your scumreads on me and Cephrir made you an absolute threat and contributed to my decision to scumcase and push you right before the game was ruined

what's BS about it?

It's in poor taste.

I agree

he also thinks scum herc would know such a play is unlikely to repay him well

can auro expand on this specifically

I don't really follow why that would be the case

hercule could have written a less detailed catalogue and then subscribed to other tendencies of his typical scum playstyle. so if he is scum, he need either present a factually incorrect outline, or holds sufficient belief that he can fool town by taking up a new way of playing as scum, whilst being aware that the amount of wifom involved makes it a comparatively frail gain. he considers both of these scenarios as low probability, with the more likely scenario being that he is speaking without chains, as a result of being town, and that there is no agenda behind what he's done.

actually I think this maybe was the post I was quoting because of how tired I was of hearing whether or not I would make the post I started with as mafia. You know what, let's just say I would. Completely NAI. Then can we move on, there will be plenty of time to tr me later

auro's opinion on hercule talking about his scum playstyle is that it's town indicitive
he says that scum can steal a march on a possible question about it by posting in this way, but that it would be unnecessary to go into such depth
herc believes that he will be able to earn townreads from the way he plays, which, if scum, would require confidence on hercs part that he can both make a substantial change in the way plays scum, and also get townread doing it
he also thinks scum herc would know such a play is unlikely to repay him well

he criticizes llds push on hercs 2nd post, saying repeated attacks have been made but no explanation of why it is scum indicative
why scum, as opposed to exhilarated town? does she expect the hercule is disingenuous in his belief that his team has players that are strong in town roles?

he is confused at the number of people treating mastina in an insulting way, and notes that he has mastina as locktown (????)
feels that agar reacted disproportionately to mastina calling him null, however he's not sure if it's alignment indicitive

at this point he offers a readslist:
town: mastina, hercule, iv, ceph
scum: agar, lld, dgb

his stomach feeling on a50 is scum. i've told him that i veto any d1 a50 vote wishes he has.

I don't like:

• The read on herc is super convoluted, it goes back and forth and I don't understand why auro leans town on it. His approach isn't commonly seen, and personally I am unable to ascribe a lean in any direction, I fail to comprehend how anyone can feel so strongly about it.
  
• Scumreading LLD for her aggressive scum read of hercule without considering that an aggressive town read is just as bizarre.
  
• Completely unexplained scum read on me (also I know it's wrong, so there's that).

I like:

• Scumreading LLD for her aggressive scum read of hercule is a reasonable position to take in isolation.
  
• Noticing AGar flinching when poked with a null read.

Xtoxm, please ask your other team members for reads while the game is still young and it won't take them an eternity.

I agree that scumreading LLD seems a bit premature given we don't really know the context of what she disliked about my second post. I really want some XTOXM content this game and not Auro content. Xtoxm walk us through your range of emotions and thoughts between the game being ruined to now. That's all I wanna hear

Hectic's thoughts (enjoy them while we’ve got them, i asked Flopz but he just said lol and insulted me a bit when I suggested that he might want to read the game)
- Herc’s ‘4 town gods’ comment felt fake because it wasn’t funny. Herc said it was funny and hectic disagrees.
- liked Dann's RVS analysis as parts felt natural. It didn’t feel forced/he wasn’t rushing to get involved and look town. Hectic disagrees with my dislike because ‘it being off in terms of vibes’ is less important than dann getting good things out of it.
-A50 usually easiest to read when being over the top/having fun- feels town. we talked about this one a bit more and hectic agreed it feels a bit more over the top and forced than normal- but that not having much scumhunting in it probably makes it town indicative

Well it was fucking funny to me. I want to say that maybe I just explained it poorly (I explained it great in the vocaroo) but it could also just be one of those inside joke things. Whatever fuck u

-------------------------

I have townlean on

Hopkirk
OkaPoka
DrippingGoofBall

i want to townlean mastina but i also want to understand mastina first

null on everyone else

extreme null on titus and winter flakes

[hercule]

I wonder if the best way to play this game is to throw last game in the trash. Scum will be hyper aware they'll be compared to how they played there. It is a bit useful for getting baselines on people I dont know (e.g. I know I may be predisposed to scumread winter flakes (alt of uncrowned) and should take disliking his posts with a grain of salt) but being visibly different might not actually be a scumtell for that reason.

Dont have anyone I'm especially excited about voting rn so i wont.

yeah maybe but I think scum trying to emulate last game will be forced like... you can't just completely emulate your town game, you have to still make organic reads

[hercule]

Spoiler: reads

innocentvillager - vibing!
mastina - performative/vibing?
AGar - vibing?
Hopkirk - vibing!
Xtoxm - performative/vibing?
the worst - performative?
Winter Flakes - vibing?
Lady Lambdadelta - vibing?
hercule - performative/vibing?
Okapoka - vibing?
DGB - performative/vibing?
jjh - vibing?
Cephrir - vibing?
Ythan - performative/vibing?
Almost50 - performative??
Dunnstral - vibing

lmaooo the performative/vibing spectrum is so good

[hercule]

here's my gth

Hopkirk - vibing
OkaPoka - vibing?
DrippingGoofBall - vibing
Dannflor - performative?
Jjh - vibing
Xtoxm - performative??
mastina - mastina
the worst - performative?
innocentvillager - performative
Lady Lambdadelta - vibing?
Almost50 - performative?
Ythan - vibing
Dunnstral - vibing
Agar - vibing
Cephrir - vibing?

Sir Not Appearing In This Film

Titus
Winter Flakes

[hercule]

my ethos is performative vibing

[hercule]

i will make an effort to be more joyful and fun since i am evidently being mr. grumpy gills again

hi buddy how are you doing? thoughts on the game so far?

[hercule]

To me hercule feels over the top. I don't know if its the avatar change or what but im getting a little more flavor leaf from him when koba (rip) told me he was more of a hyper nsg

Also hercule, no worries about koba metaing you last game?

LMAO i love the avatar change though

I don't understand your question

[hercule]

The fact that koba could meta you and you said you werent about other people metaing you. Were you just not worried about koba metaing you are what

oh no not really, they always tr me i feel like LOL

[hercule]

I really want some XTOXM content this game and not Auro content. Xtoxm walk us through your range of emotions and thoughts between the game being ruined to now. That's all I wanna hear

>i dont really wanna play v2 maybe i should rep
>nah i should stick it out for my teammates
>eugh the plist tho
>oh town, think its impossible for us to win the event since im pretty sure theres a team that gets 4 town wins if we get 3 wins
>cunts still pushing lies about me from last game
>god this playerlist is fucking garbage
>why do people cry about teammates content being posted in team mafia, you signed up for the wrong fucking game, dipshits

auros game is over and there are

going to be

comically overparaphrased auro posts

lmao i'm kinda drunk and also somehow got tricked into hosting my parents a second night but thank you i like this except whats the issue with the playerlist

[hercule]

why are the worst and winter flakes so afk

[hercule]

extreme null on titus and winter flakes

what uh denotes extreme null to you?

why are you calling out these two slots in particular

actually my previous post reminds me that i read this post - pure afk is the only reason i had extreme nulls - my other nulls are players i actually have feelings towards but they aren't developed enough to move out of null

[hercule]

Winter Flakes actually had some content (however little) so I just thought it was weird you lumped him in with Titus who had a single V/LA post and then didn't include the worst

mm no idea, i guess just didn't remember reading any winter posts

[hercule]

honestly the thing where petapan told me winter flakes would obvtown as town was true, i just kept saying they weren't doing it last game to avoid outing a read on them

[hercule]

one of the most sus things was def me avoiding the agar wagon (had no idea how to respond to it) and my read on winter flakes which i like voted them and then just completely ignored cuz i didnt know how to make a read on them

[hercule]

hey guys. winter flakes (alt of uncrowned) back at it again after skimming some pages

hercule are you trying to shade me by saying im not obvtowning rn or something? my early game was rigid af last game so I dont get the comparison

as for why im inactive, I've had work the last two days and today I went aquarium to see fishes and frogs and penguins and shit. it was fire.

what are you calling shade? I said last game petapan told me you would obvtown as town so my scum tactic was to just keep saying you weren't doing it instead of actually reading you

[hercule]

Oka where should I vote?

back to hercule im going

maybe we can see something play out in mastina vs lld that evolves past you suck

VOTE: hercule

sold
VOTE: Hercule

do either of you think that I'm mafia?

[hercule]

what's BS about it?

All of it

gonna need to do better than that mate

[hercule]

VOTE: LLD

Hercule if you vote LLD you'll be riding on sweet towncred 'til end game.

I was still waiting on her to explain her scumread on me before I decided how I felt about her push on me, I kinda want to vote A50

[hercule]

ok so here's version 1 of my tier list, feels decent for now

Hard Town

mastina

Towny

Hopkirk
DrippingGoofBall

Townlean

OkaPoka
Xtoxm

Have Said Or Done Something Towny

innocentvillager
Agar
Dunnstral

Have Not Said Or Done Something Towny

Jjh
Dannflor
Cephrir
Winter Flakes
Lady Lambdadelta
the worst
Ythan
Titus

Kinda Sus

Almost50

pedit: honestly tho like they just talked about how epic of a scumgame they have and how they're the queen of AtE like what are we even gonna get from voting there, I feel like A50 wagon has better chance to gain traction and LLD is one of those players that if they're scum you have to case the fuck out of them after flipping a partner or two. butttt yolo i'll vote with you because you're my friend

VOTE: Lady LambdaDelta

[hercule]

also it's kind of funny how much meta is used in these games i didn't realize how overbearing it would be as town. special shoutout mastina for walking me through her meta read on dann

[hercule]

I like xtoxm.

I never did finish my skim but I may not.

If LLD is scum, Hercule almost certainly is. I don't see LLD putting down all her credibility on something she doesn't feel will flip scum. If Hercule flips town, LLD's read accuracy will be discounted at best.

Dude.

Titus is making sense and posting reasonable posts that contain correct logic and sound deductive reasoning.

Fuck, you're scum aren't you

how does this make any sense? lmao hold up, since LLD didn't justify her reasoning to vote me ever, so she could literally just say if I got flipped that she was just pressuring me and didn't like my reaction or some shit like that. the scum!LLD - scum!hercule world doesn't exist, the scum!LLD - town!hercule world could exist, and the town!LLD - town!hercule world could exist. LLD nodding along to this nonsense because it furthers her narrative is sus

[hercule]

Titus: let's go ahead and clear LLD since she would never make an early push on town as scum

LLD: yes, yes, correct I would never, despite me just stating that my meta is insane and i change it all the time, you are logical and reasonable

[hercule]

idk how to feel about mastina not mentioning me by name (i think exclusively not mentioning me) when she was talking about people who she thinks are better/worse at scum

lmao she put me in the category of 5 people who aren't good scumhunters so but I can understand, no one has meta on me. actually one thing that's been surprising to me is that normally i have this strong town entitlement that i tried to replicate as scum last game but now that i'm town in this table i'm like, yeah, meh, no one has seen my town game I don't feel like it's that weird to be sus of me. except okapoka's vote on me made me downgrade them a bit cuz i feel like they DO have access to my meta, or at least gave me the impression they did

[hercule]

ok so here's version 1 of my tier list, feels decent for now

Hard Town

mastina

Towny

Hopkirk
DrippingGoofBall

Townlean

OkaPoka
Xtoxm

Have Said Or Done Something Towny

innocentvillager
Agar
Dunnstral

Have Not Said Or Done Something Towny

Jjh
Dannflor
Cephrir
Winter Flakes
Lady Lambdadelta
the worst
Ythan
Titus

Kinda Sus

Almost50

pedit: honestly tho like they just talked about how epic of a scumgame they have and how they're the queen of AtE like what are we even gonna get from voting there, I feel like A50 wagon has better chance to gain traction and LLD is one of those players that if they're scum you have to case the fuck out of them after flipping a partner or two. butttt yolo i'll vote with you because you're my friend

VOTE: Lady LambdaDelta

why is your vote on LLD instead of A50 here? you put him in a category all on his own then went on to case LLD?

I would vote A50 too, for sure. I just voted LLD cuz DGB wanted me to and then I ISO'd LLD to do my due diligence on whether I wanted to keep the vote there, and yeah, i'm fine with it as well.

[hercule]

Titus: let's go ahead and clear LLD since she would never make an early push on town as scum

LLD: yes, yes, correct I would never, despite me just stating that my meta is insane and i change it all the time, you are logical and reasonable

Neither of these posts are what we said though.

well they are. let's read it from hercule's POV, considering I am hercule

If LLD is scum, Hercule almost certainly is.

LLD is town because LLD would never push hercule here as scum

Dude.

Titus is making sense and posting reasonable posts that contain correct logic and sound deductive reasoning.

This makes so much sense! I would never do this!

[hercule]

@LLD my team thinks you might just be scum shitpushing me, can you engage with me a bit as to what you don't like about my posts?

[hercule]

@LLD my team thinks you might just be scum shitpushing me, can you engage with me a bit as to what you don't like about my posts?

No. Your team can stuff it and you can eat rope.

now that's what i call good faith scumhunting

[hercule]

@LLD my team thinks you might just be scum shitpushing me, can you engage with me a bit as to what you don't like about my posts?

No. Your team can stuff it and you can eat rope.

now that's what i call good faith scumhunting

It is. You're scum. Why do I need to convince you or your team of anything? Why should I take the time to have a long protracted nonsense conversation where you get to gum up the thread with minutia about how definitely I'm misunderstanding you and you're so town.

You are always going to say you're town.

I think you're scum and I'm not going to change that opinion by arguing it with you. If you're so town, prove it by actually doing something townie.

nah see we're not playing this game. it's clear you have no reason for fosing me (your initial fos was because of your #mastinaplay, and then later you seemed to justify it by just quoting a post of mine and saying it's bad), and so if you aren't going to engage, explain, or otherwise show signs of genuinely sorting my alignment then i'll just park my vote on you and that's that

does anyone reading this find this behavior to be towny from LLD? Open question to the table

[hercule]

ceph's recent posts are +town and Hercule's recent posts are +scum

how so?

[hercule]

I do think that Ceph's empty vote on the worst is a bit sus considering the worst is AFK for three days and we won't be getting any reactions, what is the purpose

[hercule]

does anyone reading this find this behavior to be towny from LLD? Open question to the table

this type of appeal to the crowd shit is not towny, hercule

I feel like you could be literally doing anything else in this game besides trying to appear the good-faith half of the LLD vs. hercule 1v1 and instead you're trying to do something that I think you should *know* is unproductive

Like you trying to engage LLD here doesn't feel like you actually want to solve her, it feels like you want to show yourself off as towny

well I am trying to crowdsource metareads on LLD because the one member of my team who has meta on her has feelings about it but doesn't want me to express them or even say their name because of "bad blood"

[hercule]

@LLD my team thinks you might just be scum shitpushing me, can you engage with me a bit as to what you don't like about my posts?

No. Your team can stuff it and you can eat rope.

now that's what i call good faith scumhunting

It is. You're scum. Why do I need to convince you or your team of anything? Why should I take the time to have a long protracted nonsense conversation where you get to gum up the thread with minutia about how definitely I'm misunderstanding you and you're so town.

You are always going to say you're town.

I think you're scum and I'm not going to change that opinion by arguing it with you. If you're so town, prove it by actually doing something townie.

nah see we're not playing this game. it's clear you have no reason for fosing me (your initial fos was because of your #mastinaplay, and then later you seemed to justify it by just quoting a post of mine and saying it's bad), and so if you aren't going to engage, explain, or otherwise show signs of genuinely sorting my alignment then i'll just park my vote on you and that's that

does anyone reading this find this behavior to be towny from LLD? Open question to the table

okay, now this is a post i can properly hate.

what do you hate about it? is this rly what scumhunting on this site is, ppl just quote things and say "oh this post sucks" with no substantiation.

[hercule]

tbh I was kind of expecting Ceph to post a short case on someone by now like they did on Agar cuz I was assuming they were tryna copy their towngame when they did that, but if they flipped scum again they prob wouldn't do it again cuz of the optics

[hercule]

@LLD my team thinks you might just be scum shitpushing me, can you engage with me a bit as to what you don't like about my posts?

No. Your team can stuff it and you can eat rope.

now that's what i call good faith scumhunting

It is. You're scum. Why do I need to convince you or your team of anything? Why should I take the time to have a long protracted nonsense conversation where you get to gum up the thread with minutia about how definitely I'm misunderstanding you and you're so town.

You are always going to say you're town.

I think you're scum and I'm not going to change that opinion by arguing it with you. If you're so town, prove it by actually doing something townie.

nah see we're not playing this game. it's clear you have no reason for fosing me (your initial fos was because of your #mastinaplay, and then later you seemed to justify it by just quoting a post of mine and saying it's bad), and so if you aren't going to engage, explain, or otherwise show signs of genuinely sorting my alignment then i'll just park my vote on you and that's that

does anyone reading this find this behavior to be towny from LLD? Open question to the table

This is a bad faith representation of my posting, because I literally voted you because of your opening post and used the Mastina thing as an entry point because it let me fuck with Mastina and also because it's genuinely correct. They were simultaneous. Saying I came up with that FoS "later" is false.

You're welcome to park your vote on me, seeing as you're scum and your vote was already parked there. I don't exactly know what you think this post changed but here's the kicker.

This is now the scummiest reaction you've had all game and it's so bleedingly obvious.

you can't just say something is scummy and hope that it suddenly becomes scummy. you never had a reason to vote me, you literally just said my second post (not my opening, which u are saying now) was atrocious and then never circled back to explain why

[hercule]

@LLD my team thinks you might just be scum shitpushing me, can you engage with me a bit as to what you don't like about my posts?

No. Your team can stuff it and you can eat rope.

now that's what i call good faith scumhunting

It is. You're scum. Why do I need to convince you or your team of anything? Why should I take the time to have a long protracted nonsense conversation where you get to gum up the thread with minutia about how definitely I'm misunderstanding you and you're so town.

You are always going to say you're town.

I think you're scum and I'm not going to change that opinion by arguing it with you. If you're so town, prove it by actually doing something townie.

nah see we're not playing this game. it's clear you have no reason for fosing me (your initial fos was because of your #mastinaplay, and then later you seemed to justify it by just quoting a post of mine and saying it's bad), and so if you aren't going to engage, explain, or otherwise show signs of genuinely sorting my alignment then i'll just park my vote on you and that's that

does anyone reading this find this behavior to be towny from LLD? Open question to the table

okay, now this is a post i can properly hate.

what do you hate about it? is this rly what scumhunting on this site is, ppl just quote things and say "oh this post sucks" with no substantiation.

ABHAHAHAAHHAHAHAAHHAHA

Ceph.

CEPH.

He's scum complaining about being caught for the wrong reasons.

It's open now. He's upset not because he's town being pressured, but because he's scum and he doesn't think he should be suspected for what he's done so far.

You can see it right? It's fucking obvious.

i- what? how is that your takeaway from that

[hercule]

okay but the way you phrased that whole post sounds like you're trying to set up a dichotomy of "I'm the good-faith player here just trying to understand you LLD and you are the bad-faith player"

like it's very p e r f o r m a t i v e and "does anyone reading this find this behavior to be towny from LLD" is a direct appeal to the crowd that feels more like you're looking for a specific answer than actually trying to get a meta read from anyone

ok well I literally just want input from people, can i get yours?

[hercule]

i feel like i'm being gaslit here: i am trying to find mafia and i'm being accused of not doing anything towny, what else do you expect town to do?

[hercule]

@LLD my team thinks you might just be scum shitpushing me, can you engage with me a bit as to what you don't like about my posts?

No. Your team can stuff it and you can eat rope.

now that's what i call good faith scumhunting

It is. You're scum. Why do I need to convince you or your team of anything? Why should I take the time to have a long protracted nonsense conversation where you get to gum up the thread with minutia about how definitely I'm misunderstanding you and you're so town.

You are always going to say you're town.

I think you're scum and I'm not going to change that opinion by arguing it with you. If you're so town, prove it by actually doing something townie.

nah see we're not playing this game. it's clear you have no reason for fosing me (your initial fos was because of your #mastinaplay, and then later you seemed to justify it by just quoting a post of mine and saying it's bad), and so if you aren't going to engage, explain, or otherwise show signs of genuinely sorting my alignment then i'll just park my vote on you and that's that

does anyone reading this find this behavior to be towny from LLD? Open question to the table

okay, now this is a post i can properly hate.

what do you hate about it? is this rly what scumhunting on this site is, ppl just quote things and say "oh this post sucks" with no substantiation.

i mean, yes, sometimes that's what scumhunting on this site is, although i think your being annoyed at me for doing that is also scummy. >_>

i don't think it's a fair assessment of what's gone on. the statement "it's clear you have no reason for fosing me" is just untrue, and the whole post seems more like a cookie cutter post you'd make to discredit someone who's attacking you than it does a post that has anything to do with the actual gamestate we have right now. i also have a big pet peeve for the crowd-appealing thing, it's

you know

literally

Spoiler:

performative

if you're going to die on this hill, then please in your own words explain the justification for LLD's push on me

[hercule]

did i say i was going to die on this hill?

taking LLD's side in this argument is more or less logical suicide fmpov

anyway "does this player fucking suck or are they scum" is my least favorite game to play in mafia so i'm out for now before i legitimately get mad

[hercule]

okay but the way you phrased that whole post sounds like you're trying to set up a dichotomy of "I'm the good-faith player here just trying to understand you LLD and you are the bad-faith player"

like it's very p e r f o r m a t i v e and "does anyone reading this find this behavior to be towny from LLD" is a direct appeal to the crowd that feels more like you're looking for a specific answer than actually trying to get a meta read from anyone

ok well I literally just want input from people, can i get yours?

i feel like i'm being gaslit here: i am trying to find mafia and i'm being accused of not doing anything towny, what else do you expect town to do?

I've played like two games with LLD and she was mafia in both so I don't think anything I say is gonna be based in an amazing meta read

I don't think this approach from her is especially scummy though

I think it's a little odd you haven't considered that maybe she came out of the gate pushing you so hard in order to see what your reaction was. Very generally speaking I'd say it's more likely scum wants concrete reasons to back up their pushes but I wouldn't apply that necessarily to LLD because she's a very good player. But the fact that you're fixed on this, on why LLD pushed you originally feels unproductive and like you should know it would be unproductive.

Like, you haven't commented on much else in this game and as a townie I would expect you to while maybe devoting some attention to LLD, have more thoughts outside of that. Basically, I want to know what you think about literally anything else in this game besides LLD.

I'm suspect of you now not because of anything LLD said originally, but because I think your reaction to pressure here is bad. Like why does it matter that you don't think LLD has good reasoning to be pushing you? Do you think she's scum for it? It almost feels like now you're looking for permission to scum read her for it when you should just do that if you feel like it's scummy.

ok I will stay to answer this

- of course I suspected that, and that's why I didn't spend any time sorting her until she responded. But she is legitimately trying to get me elimmed and never spent time interacting with me or doing anything that made me feel she was trying to learn my alignment, so that is obviously off the table now.

- I have devoted most of my attention this game outside of LLD, literally only looked at her and ISO'd her because DGB was encouraging me to vote her, I can tell you my thoughts on any player in the game, all you have to do is simply ask

- I do think she could be scum for it, but I want other people's opinions as well. I'm voting her aren't I?

[hercule]

just a thought but if you need a second opinion on someone couldn't you get that from your team

this may be slightly rich coming from someone whose team has not read a single post of my game and likely never will

you can remove yourself from the discourse regarding me if you don't read my posts

[hercule]

It's a tricky situation if you're town when a thread-dominating player leads a significant wagon on you and you aren't 100% sure if they're scum for doing it

That's been the vibe I got

okay, so you're town this game, which is good.

but there is a difference between town doing that and scum trying to wiggle free.

So I'll ask you this: Do you honestly believe that this player as town asks their team about me, gets the answer "could be scum" and then while ALREADY VOTING ME both

1) attempts to interact with someone who is cross voting them about why they think they are scum

and 2) when told "fuck off you're scum" performatively throws their hands in the air goes woe is me and then reconfirms their vote as SUPER SERIOUS GUYS.

I don't thikn that's how a townie handles that interaciton. I don't think a townie approaches me like that and I don't think if a townie were to be in that spot they respond to my "nope ur scum lul" with that reaction.

Do you?

are you stupid? you gave off this impression that you understand the game of mafia on a deep level, and yet it blows your mind that someone uninformed of other's alignments could have contradictory thoughts and constantly be evaluating their reads on other players

if anything, scum trips over their feet trying to keep a consistent thought process, which is what makes them come across as stilted and forced. are you being willfully ignorant of this or what

[hercule]

Have Not Said Or Done Something Towny

Jjh
Dannflor
Cephrir
Winter Flakes
Lady Lambdadelta
the worst
Ythan
Titus

Kinda Sus

Almost50

pedit: honestly tho like they just talked about how epic of a scumgame they have and how they're the queen of AtE like what are we even gonna get from voting there, I feel like A50 wagon has better chance to gain traction and LLD is one of those players that if they're scum you have to case the fuck out of them after flipping a partner or two. butttt yolo i'll vote with you because you're my friend

VOTE: Lady LambdaDelta

hercule explicitly null reads LLD and their vote was "ok i guess I'll sheep you"

Like I said, it feels like they are looking for permission to OMGUS

any person who hasn't done anything towny is a fine vote, she had lots of content, that doesn't mean null

[hercule]

dannflor you said you wanted to see thoughts about the game outside LLD from me and yet you say Nothing when i ask what you want to know about

[hercule]

Tell me more about your team's discussions of LLD, Hercule

i was asked really nicely to not bring up anything one member of my team said (who believes she is scum) but the other teammate in the discussion joqiza wasn't sure how to read her, liked the post where she said she was elite at scum but didn't think she really articulated any exact reasons that make her good

[hercule]

dannflor you said you wanted to see thoughts about the game outside LLD from me and yet you say Nothing when i ask what you want to know about

Right because we're not going to be the ones to give you free interaction points that you can point to when we THINK YOU ARE SCUM.

Again, if you're townie, you are meant to be doing townie things.

But instead here you are complaining that people voting for you won't give you a layup so you can APPEAR townie.

Because the mentality being approached by hercule, here folks. Is not "townie trying to solve the game"

it's "scum player trying not to look scummy"

i mean your behavior ain't exactly "let's try to solve the game" either, you're playing "let's get hercule elimmed"

[hercule]

ok i g2g for a bit for real

[hercule]

dannflor you said you wanted to see thoughts about the game outside LLD from me and yet you say Nothing when i ask what you want to know about

okay it's more I mean I want to see you working on something else than the LLD thing

like who on your wagon is most likely to be scum

is anyone on the sidelines catching your attention?

I feel like these are questions a townie in your position would ask yourself

I'm asking you for like solving I'm not asking for a recount of your reads list

i really gotta fucking go i'm late but bruh I am doing this, I'm just not posting it in the thread until I have more data. like the worst votes on me fmpov (besides LLD) were okapoka and the worst, i asked them if they genuinely scumread me, oka kind of replied and said i was uncategorized which isn't super convincing to me, the worst is afk so not much to gain there but i don't love voting someone just because oka was and then afking for 3days. and now at this point i'm just flustered, i was more solving earlier before LLD came back to the thread and started treating me in bad faith which just frustrates me and distracts me, and i'm aware of this flaw in myself but it is what it is

[hercule]

I chimed in with a "haven't you people ever heard of voting the goddamn scum-" no. it's much better to face these kinds of things with a sense of poise and rationality.

hello, I have taken a break from the game, I have returned, I have achieved nirvana, I have removed the ego and the id, I am viewing the game as that of a neutral observer since I think that will help me be more productive here.

now I will elucidate my thoughts on every single player at this moment of the game

Titus -

They seem okay ig. Read on LLD/Me as Town v Town doesn't seem particularly scum motivated. Surely more content will come.

innocentvillager -

GTH town, their intro was kind of jarring and different from last game but it was almost so jokey that I townread it, like just claiming scum lmao, feels like scum wouldn't be so bold. his approach to mastina felt towny as well, basically committing to sheep her most of the game which idt mafia would want the wrecking ball that is mastina to have thread control

also 350 felt like a really pure thought process and so have most of his posts regarding my slot

that being said I feel like he has spent an inordinate amount of time posting about me and not nearly as much about anyone else and I don't have a good explanation for it

mastina -

so fucking town. town angel. town savior. town leader. i'm pocketed as shit by her defense of me, but it's not just that, it's how thoughtful and insightful they approach the game. one obvious example is the way she called out dannflor with a metaread, and dannflor was like well yeah you're right, and she kept pushing on dannflor, and then comes to a realization that he has some towny thought processes, and then eases up, and the whole thing felt natural as fuck

AGar -

also GTH town. hasn't added a lot of content but I remember thinking 292 felt like genuine frustration that bubbled up after game 2 started feeling similar to game 1 for them. obvi need to see more

Hopkirk -

I see that the thread is kind of turning on Hopkirk but I don't really understand why. I actually think A50 came across as kind of towny in my re-assessment of the game and he seems to be the largest driver of it but I'm not seeing it

I guess to me Hopkirk comes across as almost identical to last game, seems to have been having fun until the recent push on him, not at all the stilted or forced tone I would expect from someone who hasn't flipped scum in ages suddenly being forced into a mafia rerand because of ABR

A50's read and push on them comes across as like "i know i'm town and yet you fos me? you must be scum" which isn't particularly convincing

Xtoxm -

Last day or two xtoxm has shot up my town list. imagine xtoxm giving this kind of content last game LOL. i don't even care that it's mostly Auro, if xtoxm flipped scum him and his team were basically like: k, THIS time, we are super tryharding. which maybe but... i doubt it. also "the people on the hercule wagon should feel terrible, he is crystalline town. i am very puzzled at the wagon on hercule" please of course I love this slot.

Dannflor -

I want to say they're towny just because they express thoughts that sound genuine, like when I am engaging with them I feel like I'm talking to town who just has an incorrect read rather than someone trying to push me through on bad faith. If they are scum then I would be pretty impressed with their ability to generate genuine-sounding reads on the fly. my main takeaway from their read on me was that they lacked context into my brain, not that they were spewing whatever they can to tighten the noose around my neck.

the worst -

Not loving the "sheep oka onto hercule and tab out for 3 days" look but nothing really else to go on.

Winter Flakes -

town pretty sure. love their approach to my slot to be honest. looks careful and considered. also his read on the worst. i'm a sucker for reads developing over time with the logic for it expressed in the thread. maybe this is the obvtowning i was told about

Lady Lambdadelta -

so. obviously I hate their push on me. AND I felt like their waffling / recalcitrance on me felt more performative than an actual attempt to dismantle their own wagon on me. but I will say that 1242, 1243, 1245, 1246, 1257, 1258 that series felt like genuine emotion and like a legitimate meltdown which I feel like wouldn't be necessary to do in that situation as scum, so I'm slightly townleaning the slot atm

hercule -

locktown bay bee

OkaPoka -

okapoka... now this slot. see this is where I wanna do a vocaroo because I have a lot to say and I'm gonna fuck up elucidating it. but here we go

so I'm trying to view this from an ego-less place right but I think there are a couple good points to be made regarding them and some involve me

1. I think Dann said they were the top poster again and yet weren't providing the same presence and I FELT this. I remember game 1 I basically had to instantly townread them because I was aware how obvtown they were I really had no choice. But I don't feel that at all this game

2. Their vote on me. Because, they keep saying "yeah I have secret meta on hercule I won't be able to read him until later", yet they vote me initially. Ok, sure, maybe to pressure, acceptable. Then they vote somewhere else. And THEN, the worst is like "hey oka where we voting" and oka is like "back to hercule!" and then has basically just sat there for a few days now with no inclination that they actually think i'm mafia, they keep saying "yeah I can read hercule later" then why are you voting me still? Like last game oka was bouncing around everywhere and anywhere that had a pulse with his vote, and this game they're just chilling on someone they think they can't read until later

now they kind of addressed this in 1347, 1349, 1351, but to me like it's too little too late once the wheels are already falling off the wagon

DrippingGoofball -

town. if someone is pocketing me this game though it's DrippingGoofBall. I feel their intro to the game is almost exactly like last game, I also liked DGB calling out people for discrediting mastina, because clearly mastina was ready to take over game 1 and prob can do it this game as well, seemed way too early to start shading her. I think there was one post as well where DGB had a pros and cons list on one of xtoxm's posts which struck me as towny. lemme pull it up. ok so 411 struck me as towny because DGB gave +town and +scum to the same thing (scumreading LLD) which seemed a bit openly contradictory, but it was nuanced, in a way that seems like it would be difficult for scum to fake. idk if i'm elaborating enough on these points. in essence, the thought process of "scumreading LLD in a vacuum kinda towny -> scumreading LLD without considering this extra layer kinda scummy" seems like it would be weird to come up with as someone with TMI. also ngl 758 gave me the validation I crave and therefore increased the pocket

jjh927 -

gth town but not quite enough to be sure. I can vibe with their stated philosophy. makes it a little harder to catch them if they're scum but I kind of feel like they will just reveal themselves as the game goes on. petapan told me they will just coast and make accurate reads and so far that's what they're doing so fuck ya. 891 also gave me good vibes, felt like a good question to ask in the moment

Cephrir -

mmm okay so Ceph. I have a couple thoughts on Ceph as well

1. I don't think LLD / Ceph are partners. In the moment of hardpushing me a couple days ago LLD basically like grabbed Ceph by his shoulders and shook him and was like yelling at him to vote me, which I feel like would be way overdramatic as partners and would just frame them in a horrible light after I flipped

2. Ceph's energy is very similar to last game. I see a lot of the same playstyle as well, coasting on the sidelines, no particularly incisive reads. G1 they did have the Agar case but the rest, like during xtoxm/abr they were just going with the flow and I see that again here, 835 "ah yes now something i can hate" kinda pinged me as well

Ythan -

mmm idk. joqiza thinks they're scum but I think they're remarkably similar in tone to last game. idk how to read them. gth town

Almost50 -

A50 is someone who... I dunno, when looking at the game from a fresh perspective I think they're towny

They're just like really unapologetic and raw it feels like. For example 392 they're just like ya I ain't reading everything who cares, 701 I completely vibe with and I thought was towny, 979 looks towny especially considering I think dann very well could be town and he was talking mastina out of going there

At first I felt they were off as compared to last game and thought it was scummy they kept discrediting me for no reason but they didn't even really push on me so egoless!hercule is willing to write that off. also they asked me to get petapan's read on them which I will do today

Dunnstral -

Dunnstral is a slot I have a hard time reading. gth... scum. It feels like their content is "towny" but in the sense that it's wrapped up to look towny rather than being genuinely so. when the wagon on me first started I considered their vote on me to be fine cuz they were like "no reasons to townread yet" which was like, yeah sure, that's a legit enough reason to vote someone. And then again I thought it was towny that they voted me and then unvoted me and then voted me again within 9 minutes but the more I thought about it, 1054 as the main reason seems kind of sheepy / hedging so that he can continue to vote me but blame others when I flip town and then point to his unvote that he was trying to sort me genuinely..

Dunnstral strikes me as the type of scumplayer who would just look generically towny and not really do much except try to avoid the spotlight in early days and then kind of up their game later on.

----------------

ok that's a decent summary of my thoughts, I'm sure there's more. if I were to make a tierlist atm it would look like....

Hard Town

mastina

Towny

Hopkirk
DrippingGoofBall
Xtoxm
Almost50
Winter Flakes
Dannflor

Feel Like They're Town

innocentvillager
Agar
Jjh

Maybe Town?

Lady Lambdadelta
Ythan
Titus

Not Particularly Towny

Dunnstral
the worst

Kinda Sus

Cephrir
OkaPoka

[hercule]

i guess i'll unvote for now, not rly sure what i wanna do with my vote

UNVOTE:

[hercule]

also lol at the discourse regarding me being coached, let me just say that even when i was scum the best i got from asking "yo wtf do i do about these competing wagons my partners" to my teammates was effectively "lol rip idk bus"

[hercule]

rules are rules, and one of the rules is people who're new to be scumreading me for reasons that don't actually apply to me. that's ok tho.

hold my hand and explain to me what doesn't apply to you

[hercule]

and i mean, it's not gonna do much for you because lolselfmeta.

but you may recall me saying in the scum pt last game that my scum game is imitating my town game. so by suspecting me for being similar, you're kinda just complimenting my play last game.

mm okay... well. let me try to get some insight here: what do you think you did last game that you should have been caught for by someone who knows your meta?

[hercule]

pretty world this is

admittedly most of the time when hercule post my visceral reaction is townleans and i end up walking back on it a few hours later but this is no different, it does look pretty townie

and he unvoted LLD ugh is it mastina, i really can't do mastina

are you not gonna comment on my scumread on you? what do you make of my reasoning for it? do you feel I am misconstruing you in some way?

[hercule]

and i mean, it's not gonna do much for you because lolselfmeta.

but you may recall me saying in the scum pt last game that my scum game is imitating my town game. so by suspecting me for being similar, you're kinda just complimenting my play last game.

mm okay... well. let me try to get some insight here: what do you think you did last game that you should have been caught for by someone who knows your meta?

i think maybe the constant vote changing was a scum maneuver from me. i also possibly cared more about what people thought of me.

also i think i was confident a few times because i knew none of the people who would catch me out on it are in team mafia.

okay I don't think this really helps much fmpov but acknowledged

hercule ive spent an inordinate amt of time on you because sorting you seems to be high priority aorn with the wagon on you

LLD is also a major wagon but from what i hear her scumgame is very good and AtE-heavy as well, so that's also a priority for me but admittedly ive found it easier to engage with the discussion around you so that's where ive been focusing aorn

mastina, who i believe is very likely to be town, has a super strong townread on you, and if she can convince me/make me see her POV, i would gain an invaluable townread and can push against your wagon

valid enough reasoning, cool

thin chance maybe idk

it could come from scum agh but it ~feels~ like a townie catchup wall tonally i guess is the best way to describe it

hercule the reason why i wanted to camp on you and stay silent is because if i don't out my reasons to sit on you for the sake of pressure, it looks a lot scarier for you. basically i was fishing for my data and seeing if i could see a meta crack. but like mastina is a butt and lld doesn't really want it so a lot of my purpose has been undermined.

i left and came back because i wanted to explore other things and got bored but LLD seemed like she wanted to play warper and after a bit of remembering, i was like i can do a warper game. part of playing with a warper is making them commit and not letting them back out because giving them that ability to blame the rest of us and is how they would win as scum ehh this goes into theory but yeah.

i seriously thought about the idea of an LLD bus on you for some moments there as well, it was a win win for me trying to force LLD to flip you because of some internal speculation in my discord. but this doesn't really matter anymore and reasons change i guess. i don't even know how comfortable with this theory right now because i still need to figure out if mastina's trying to trick me and if that's ai because she 100% feels more agenda-y and less grandstand-y this game.

first of all what is a warper I think you've said that like 10 times and each time it flies over my head, my guess is it's like a player who bends the gravity of the game towards themselves and tries to drive it?

i can somewhat buy your argument regarding "silent pressure" but the wagon got up to 7 votes and you stayed on it, i feel like that's at least somewhat signaling that you're okay if I get pushed over

what entails "figuring out mastina" I feel like she's blatant town. also what is your take on LLD / possibly bussing me / now

like just claiming scum lmao, feels like scum wouldn't be so bold

also if we're gonna go by meta i think of the times ive claimed scum early game i was something like 75% likely to actually be scum i think (if there's anything more specifically AI it's probably related to the way i claim scum ??)

if we include this game in there tho it's 60%!

lmao you saying this makes me more inclined to townread it...

[hercule]

and also if you actually read her [mastina] posts critically you'll realize they don't say anything

that's not true at all though. like literally she pointed out a meta read about dann and he was like "yeah you're right but i'm still town" - she's a bit dramatic in her expression of her thought process but it's still clearly there. her read on dannflor is easy to watch develop. regarding my own slot I feel like she's done an extensive job of comparing post-by-post my playstyle in each game. her read on my slot is easy to watch develop and she has accepted some things she regarded as less towny than others by me, showing a fair review. regarding LLD she clearly did a deep dive of LLD's metagame and found posts from her other games to compare. her read on that slot is easy to watch develop. I feel like you're doing a woeful disservice to her here

the warper is yeah somebody who bends the gravity the of the game towards themselves and basically is asserting their superiority over everyone as both alignments and turns the game into follow me or be against me. like a polarizer idk its a term i made up because people like to criticize "warpers" by saying they warp the game but I don't think its necessarily a bad thing.

i mean yeah i was okay with saccing you to play the warper game, again you can't beat a scum!warper without holding them accountable and you following a good town!warper is okay, and if a bad town!warper fucks up, you still want to hold them accountable. sorry bud but at one point i was very okay with just saccing you. idk now, the well's been poisioned and LLD doesn't need to commit anymore /shrug its a different world and depends on what people to do

i feel like mastina is acting with a lot more direction this game like she's more active in getting her wants achieved, im paranoid of that because the mastina we just saw was more like trying to stop things from happening but not really super poised to achieve her own flips. this doesn't get the same town credit iv got for changes because this is a more subtle thing. is this scummy though? don't know never seen scum mastina. mathblade wants her dead but mathblade seems to always scumread mastina. maybe? i want her dead, but ehh that's not happening anyways

i don't know what to make of the LLD theory tbh, i don't even know what LLD wants to do and its really impossible to feel out a warper without seeing what they want to do and speculating blah blah, but if LLD is scum the game just opened up for her. oh god if she's scum id be so jealous she's in an incredibly fun position to play.

I don't really accept that your reasoning that "hercule is a good sacrificial lamb in all worlds because LLD wants to assert her presence in the game" holds any water

hercule pls
we didn't put all this work in saving you from scum for you to come out and townread said scum
lld is scum and we are eliminating her today
ffs

mmmm I appreciate your defense of me but I don't feel as confident as you to put potentially lethal votes atm

[hercule]

getting around to playing around warpers basically requires you to get absolutely rolled by a scum one and see multiple games of various degrees of success

i don't know if epicmafia has any warpers, probably do, but longer deadlines amplify the mental toll and effect of warpers

danny boi can relate, well actually most people can its just danny boi was in the games i have learned from

I genuinely don't even know what you're saying here

[hercule]

like from my perspective, your viewpoint seems more likely to be from a scum agenda that a town agenda because:

- LLD can be town, and you just pin my flip on her
- LLD can be scum, and you just let her elim as many townies as she can before you bus her

pedit: ok

[hercule]

i like how people read my thought process post and only consider the part about themselves and then skim past it

[hercule]

i like how people read my thought process post and only consider the part about themselves and then skim past it

wha..? who would be so self centered and do that.. of course i read your whole post and paid the same amount of attention to the parts about me than the parts about other people...

yeah yeah of course you did

[hercule]

ok so I got a chance to speak with my team about some of my reads and this will be a bit of a 180 from earlier but

1) one of my teammates has convinced me that LLD was doing fakerage and that she does this exact kind of "gross fake AtE" as scum, and they're screaming at me that it's bullshit, which I am now believing. another teammate as well pointed out that she explictly said she's good at emoting as scum. honestly, like even just letting my instant reaction dissipate a bit I found myself cooling on the AtE and that was one of the main reasons I unvoted to begin with

2) petapan is very sure that Dunnstral is playing his towngame but he can't/won't explain it further than that so it's not really that helpful for me

3) spf agrees that A50 is town but peta, who A50 asked me to ask for reads on him, thought that nothing stands out as obviously town to him and that he has some scummy posts

so I guess I will downgrade A50 slightly from my town block but more importantly I'm willing to lethal LLD, which I'm sure will bring much joy to some players at this table

VOTE: Lady LambdaDelta

and yes I know Oka voted them and put them at L-3 so I want to make this very clear that I am putting them intentionally at L-2

[hercule]

feels good tbh

[hercule]

why is DGB on your list twice @mastina did you move them up a tier

[hercule]

green pool

iv, hop, ceph, xtoxm, ythan, dann, herc

honestly anything goes

titus, agar, flakes, lld, dgb, jjh, dunn, duck

red pool

a50, mastina

is where my head is at atm

you need to explain the mastina scumread sooner rather than later

[hercule]

get this xd

UNVOTE:

okay did not get what i expected out of mastina going to recalibrate

what were you expecting?

[hercule]

your going to love me but a political move of me to town

i was testing a theory but obv did not hold maybe i poisoned the well butttttttt im going to go think it over

explicitly state your theory

[hercule]

game theory:

mastina wants LLD dead for whatever reason. now she won't admit she is playing politically but i felt she was playing politically. anyways i tested my theory because i felt like she was trying to get me to vote LLD through putting me into scum buckets, by voting LLD and seeing if she moved me anywhere. clearly she didn't i.e. my theory on mastina playing politically is wrong i.e. my theory of scum!mastina playing politically is wrong.

unless i poisoned the well by preemptively calling it out but i do think if she was playing it that way she would've moved me up regardless.

i don't really understand your reasoning here. when you say "playing politically" is that a euphemism for scum agenda? what's your take on LLD regardless of mastina?

why is DGB on your list twice @mastina did you move them up a tier

Sort-of. DGB has been, for quite some time, a strong townread of mine but not in my townbloc in spite of our read resonance on LLD being scum. If LLD isn't scum, that is an accurate placement for her: strong townread of mine, but not quite townbloc thanks to not being up-to-date on DGB's scumplay, essentially.

If LLD is scum, however, then that placement is too low. The read resonance proving to be accurate would move her to firmly in the townbloc due to her accuracy on top of the reasons for the strong townread.

In short: If LLD is scum, DGB's play goes beyond the realm of bussing imo; she's already a strong townread and that strong of a push on her scumbuddy isn't something I think happens with her scum so she is 100% town beyond any reasonable doubt and the core of core townbloc members.

If LLD isn't scum, DGB's not AS town, but remains one of my strongest townreads because the strong push with the high read resonance and overall approach is still something I don't think comes from scum. It's just that it being on town lessens its certainty, basically.

yeah ok, makes sense to me

one of my teammates has convinced me that LLD was doing fakerage

Interesting. I didn't want to touch on this because it's so subjective, but I am a huge sucker of AtE, it makes me just want to hug people and call them town. LLD's has left me completely unmoved.

yeah I mean I thought her annoyance with mastina / the game sounded genuine but - and I am not gonna go into specifics here and was intentionally vague because one of my teammates really does not want their name attached to LLD in any way here (though perhaps I am not being as coy as I should be, still, I can't help but share some insight into my evolving thoughts) - basically they were like "yeah no this is textbook LLD scum AtE" and I buy it

[hercule]

I’m sorry but WaGoning LLD has decidedly not been like pulling teeth and it’s been entirely too easy *especially* considering the type of player she is

please do not loleliminate her right now

I saw your sneak peek for the theory you're building but this alone is not convincing for me. It's only at L-3 now, I don't want to unvote on something I feel flips scum but I will in the event that it gets close to a hammer and you need time to finish your case

[hercule]

@OkaPoka if i'm boiling this down correctly:

your townread on LLD is based on her townreading mastina despite mastina scumreading her? I don't feel like that's strong enough of a case. There are other ways for scum to deal with someone scumreading them, nightkill is an obvious choice

and your townread on me is based one me not buddying anyone? couldn't you classify my interactions with mastina as buddying? she hard trs me and i hard tr her back

I don't see how those are strong enough to reach the conclusion you did that DGB is orchestrating a town v town with a scum agenda. I do concede that if LLD vs me was town v town then scum would be more keen on an LLD flip just based on meta, but the rest seems weak

[hercule]

lmao xtoxm is so town this game

[hercule]

it's interesting to me cuz peta thought dunnstral was playing their towngame so imma have him proofread the case

[hercule]

sorry for another wall, I know this game really doesn't need more of those

Spoiler:

I don't think it's all that unlikely that the LLD/Hercule/Mastina trifecta that's been the ongoing nuclear center of almost the entirety of Day 1 is all town.

I hard town read mastina for reasons I've already stated, you need only click on my ISO. Jingle agrees with this read and mastina was one of his first town reads upon reading through the game. LLD also hard town reads mastina, which is exactly why she's gotten so frustrated with the game. Also, the fact that both LLD and I hard town read mastina speaks good things for mastina's alignment regardless of the alignment of either me or LLD.

OkaPoka posted some good thoughts about why LLD is town recently. I won't argue that LLD won't play an emotional game as either alignment, but I think looking at the crux of her frustration here and how she's going about handling it, it speaks more towards town. I don't think LLD really ever tries to maybe back off of Hercule as scum. I think LLD's interactions with mastina, while not pleasant, are +town. I also thought the questions she asked of me and Cephrir about our motivation before we starting questioning Hercule—I'm referring to posts #803, #813, #815 specifically—it shows to me she's genuinely thinking about sorting the game beyond getting her perfect Hercule elimination. Also, uh... yeah I don't think LLD is the type of scum player to just disappear right as she's getting to E-2. You need only look at like, any other scum game of hers, AvP for instance, to see that she's gonna put up a fight the whole way. Yes blah blah blah she can warp her meta blah blah blah, but it's just like a bad strategical decision man. I think her genuine frustration with mastina is more likely to come from town who town reads her than scum who has decided to town read her and feels like... threatened by her?

Hercule is probably the town read in this trifecta I'm least sure about, but I think with how the game has played out and the dynamics at play it feels best for me if he's town. Like I don't strongly get the sense we've run up scum today. I can't really explain that beyond a gut feeling so that's probably a useless thing to say.

First, I'll say this, I never bought LLD's initial case on hercule whatever the fuck it was. Honestly, I didn't have much of a read either way on Hercule until he reacted in what I felt was a bad way to LLD's push. However, there's also definitely townie who react like that and his later posts suggested that was probably the case. I also don't think the idea that OH NO HERCULE HAS 35 PLAYERS THAT CAN ALL HELP HERCULE PLAY SCUM WAY DIFFERENT FROM LAST GAME is a case that is convincing at all. Unless hercule has some famously excellent scum player like FL or RC on his team then like... what is the actual worry here? Also how many people helped their team mates in black flag significantly with their scum game?? So overall, the only case I really hold as valid for hercule scum is the bad reaction to pressure, but like, that goes either way and taken all together I generally consider his posts townier than not. I mean, there's the caveat that I told hercule exactly what I wanted from him to town read him and then he posted a reads list, but like, it's not a bad reads list at least? There's also the small factor that I feel like hercule has had a lot less trouble with direct interactions this game. He hasn't seemed to shy away from them and seems more eager to be directly confrontational / question people. Also, I think his back and forth waffling on LLD and uncertainty on wtf to do with her is +town in the end.

So like, what does this actually mean for who is scum?

Who has been happy to ride out the LLD - Hercule wagons and just let town implode? Who has done this without significantly being town? Who has done this without seeming to be trying to get anything out of this mess other than flips? Who just isn't doing anything and able to get by because this clusterfuck is happening?

Town

mastina - see above
LLD - see above
hercule - see above

xtoxm - idk I like my auro read even if auro disagrees. He mentioned why I wouldn't assume he's more invested because black flag ended, honestly I just forgot about that. overall xtoxm is just a blinding sphere of golden light compared to last game. Jingle said to me a couple days ago that xtoxm is probably town and if he keeps up this level of activity and engagement he's almost lock town. Well, the fact he just randomly posted a case on Dunnstral without even really needing to at all and then concluding with saying they still wanna kill LLD is like, very much lock town levels in my book.

A50 - This is mostly Jingle's read not mine. And, it seems to be mostly a meta read. But I don't know how else to read A50. Overall, they seem extremely similar to last game to me, which is probably +town? Both Cephrir and Jingle who say they know or have recently seen A50's scum game find this game an obvious town game from him. I can try to get Jingle to elaborate more if needed but I'm happy just sheeping this for now because at the very least I don't detect any agenda from A50.

IV - I don't think anyone besides DGB suspects this slot so idk how many words I wanna spend here. but I think they've just been pretty obvious town in their progressions, how they go about questioning people, and honestly even how they've reacted to DGB. They're one of the slots that I actually believe has been trying to get to the bottom of the LLD/Hercule mess and get some reads out of it for themselves.

OkaPoka - Okay until recently I actually was scum reading OkaPoka. I lied about voting him for a placeholder. He seemed like he was just content to ride out the LLD/Hercule resolution and he didn't seem particularly pro-active in literally anyway. I also didn't understand the push on mastina for being political at all. Now, I actually understand his thought process better and I think the fact that he's gone back and forth between prodding both Hercule and Mastina (but having actual reasons for doing so) is + town. There's like other stuff here too but it's less important.

====

[jjh, Winter Flakes, Cephrir] also belong in my town reads. but I don't have as many words to say. jjh just doesn't seem like he cares how he's percieved. Maybe that's a strategy to get town read, and well, it's working. Winter Flakes had a spree of posts that I thought was really town, although he had a weird half-push half-question of me where he thought there was a weird difference between me this game and me last game, and I wasn't sure what type of response he was expecting and he never really followed up on it so that's why I'm maybe a little weaker on this read than some people. But still probably town. sorry for run on sentence. Cephrir is probably town. People are like oh no he's too fence sitty and indecisive and scummy (including myself) and forgetting he confidently made pushes more than once last game.

[titus] is not readable right now imo

[agar, DGB] - I just haven't picked up on anything towny yet here. Jingle town read AGar's tone and I know a few other people have too, so there might just be something I'm missing there. I feel like it's easy to town read DGB's confidence in the face of LLD, but I dunno. I don't really get any significant sense it's actually thinking about the game beyond trying to get flips. Maybe that's town indicative? Like, a few pages ago it said that it won't forget I'm "reducing the case on LLD to an lolwagon" and then did nothing with that and still town reads me. Feels the most politically driven out of all the players and I just really don't know what to make of that.

[dunn, hop, ythan, the worst]

I was town reading Dunn but honestly it was a very lazy read and reading back looking for people just standing on the sidelines of this LLD/Hercule dynamic, he stands out with his push onto xtoxm and then just kind of sitting on hercule but never making any effort to engage hercule. It feels perfunctory. I did town read the vote then unvote then vote of hercule like cephrir did but... It's also distinctly not town!Dunn's style I feel? He felt far too easily swayed by the thread's movements and while he makes a lot of specific comments about specific posts, a lot of his views seem fencesitty. IDK xtoxm just posted a case on dunn so I'm not gonna waste too much energy here.

Hopkirk I don't have as much of a reason to scum read as I do a lack of reason to town read. They haven't done really anything with the hercule/LLD dynamic. My reason for town reading them is essentially ancient and basically comes from hectic over hopkirk. I did think Hopkirk's reaction to the small wagon that built on him wasn't that great. But honestly, I just need to see more from this slot doing more in the game because I felt they had more of a presence last game despite probably posting a similar amount?

ythan - I actually think is close to obvious scum reading back and I'm surprised no one has pushed here yet. I don't understand the claims that ythan has been similar in tone and content as last game. Wtf has ythan actually done this game? Last game he actually picked a fight with hercule and tried to sort him and genuinely got something he cared about out of that engagement. Who has he earnestly engaged with this game for any extended period of time? What actual content has he posted? I'm not seeing it. Like yes, he had about the same volume of memey shit posts last game, but he also had a much larger volume of posts that at least *tried* to do something. He's also one of the biggest culprits of just riding out the hercule/LLD dynamic in a way that might look towny on a surface level because YAY WAGONS but like... I have no idea what ythan is thinking here. The two main things he's done at all this game is vote hercule for like no reason, and then vote LLD for like no reason. ????

the worst - not a lot to say here. I won't scum read him for not being here or being vla or whatever. He's probably busy with out of game stuff. But the times he has popped in were unimpressive and felt a bit forced. Granted, that's not necessarily scum and I wish the worst was more readable right now but I can't put him any higher because he really hasn't done anything towny. I don't really think the team is exactly my bottom four, so it's likely I'm town reading someone I shouldn't be. But that's a problem for future Dannflor

======

that list isn't exactly ordered except for the vague tiers I outlined

I'm happy to wagon anyone in my bottom four today

speaking of VOTE: dunnstral

I like your thought process here but don't you think this is going too far into pre-flip associatives... like you have to throw out your entire theory of the game if LLD flips scum. And I also think you're giving her a lot of benefit of the doubt when we don't really know what she has been thinking regarding the gamestate / the wagons. She expressed paranoia / thoughts about waffling on pushing me but she didn't follow through on it. BUT at this point she would know it fell apart. Idk it will be interesting to see her entrance back into the thread. I think the 3 posts you quoted from her showing a genuine thought process sound good but aren't out of the range of someone explicitly trying to control the day's narrative regardless of alignment

[hercule]

Spoiler: Notes

- #686 is a weird flip by WF. There's like... no content from the_worst to parse in the 20 or so posts between his change. This feels very very contrived.
- I want to murder A50, for no reason other than his spam quotes are going to make this take fucking hours longer than it should.
- #736 looks real bad for Hercule. 741 to 743 is gross. In 741, you're waiting on her to explain her scumread before you decide and you kinda wanna vote A50. In 743 you vote LLD for being in "have not said or done something towny." Feels jarring when contrasted to #736.
- It's the Hercule power hour for now, huh? #751 "I don't feel like it's that weird to be sus of me" really? Because you got uppity and snippy about people suspecting you and/or voting you like... 15 posts ago.
- #766 IV, wtf is this shit?
- Oh no, DGB. That stretch in #768 was too much.
- Ok IV is still town (#772)
- I straight up disagree with OkaPoka's #805. WF has not been bold? He's posted like three times? And he's waffled on a read on the_worst.
- 812 is a weird naked vote. The_worst wasn't a wagon burgeoning. Hope Ceph elaborates?
- Dann/Hercule exchange in the 800s - I agree with Dann, I find hercule infinitely scummier.
- I don't like jjh. #847 is just very middling and meh.
- Hercule #873:

I have devoted most of my attention this game outside of LLD

Press X for doubt.
- jjh #882. Yeah we just play different games or you're selectively misremembering here.
- Hercule #892 is very very typical scum bluster. "I want to talk about things but tell me what they are so I can concoct my read!"

- Whew boy WF absolutely

STINKS

this game.

- I was wrong.
- Hopkirk #1142 and #1144 sets off alarms for me. #1142 looks like he's specifically baiting to bring in toxicity, #1144 doubles down and Hopkirk just doesn't realize that he isn't funny and tries to use this to generate a point of contention.
- Hopkirk also trying to make callbacks to last game and that doesn't really hold water with me.
- 1187 is a hell of a fucking stretch by Hopkirk. Yeet this with fervor.
- Hercule has dipped out since pressure has seemingly dissipated on him. Makes you think.
- 1204, Hopkirk is really trying to kick up the toxicity dust. Wonder why.
- 1242 RE FUCKING TWEET.
- Same for 1424.
- 1480 is a whole damn mood.
- 1511: Oka, how do you not have a read on LLD?
- Oka was doing a reaction test type thing, k. Weird but k.

I am under no circumstances yeeting LLD today.

Preferred yeets {Hercule/Hopkirk}

Someone not named xtoxm please lay out a case on Dunnstral for me? Xtoxm's case has Auro all over it and a lot of meta so I'm not swayed.

I'm not gonna look up all the posts you quoted without tags (I can't believe I did that last game) but how is "Hercule has dipped out since pressure has seemingly dissipated on him" your take on the last couple days? I dipped out when the pressure on me was explicitly High in order to just take a breather from the game and approach it back with a clear mind

[hercule]

@Hopkirk are you still around or did I miss you

[hercule]

the case for scum!LLD, to me, is:

1. enters the thread with sole purpose of discrediting mastina and "eliminate players in inverse order of her preference"

2. then decides to back up this idea by saying just that my entrance was garbage

3. re-iterates that my entrance was garbage multiple times in order to get votes on me

4. rallies the thread to vote me, still with no evidence

(4.5?) big ego post about their scumgame

5. when i finally respond to her like, "ok, enough's enough let's talk" she's just like "nah lol you're caught scum"

6. when i'm like "ok well that's bullshit" she's like "lmaoooo such a scum reaction now my vote is, like, even more justified"

7. when a counterwagon forms on her, she AtEs and leaves the thread (also like, can't tell if she's mad that more people aren't voting me despite her not seeming to be sure or just mad that she's being voted)

i'm aware this is a slightly humorously uncharitable framing of her game but it also feels like a somewhat reasonable one

[hercule]

damn I missed an opportunity for another page 69 joke there

[hercule]

@ceph I feel like you also are discrediting mastina a lot this game for little to no reason, she hasn't been rallying the thread to vote LLD with no evidence she has posted longform paragraphs, 5 and 6 I don't feel LLD has been reaching out to anyone to get them to read her, more just complaining, and 7 my teammate is very sure it's her scum AtE

[hercule]

yes, i am discrediting mastina a lot this game. just because the reasons are not apparent to you does not mean they don't exist. it should be apparent this is a longstanding real opinion.

once again we arrive at the idea that long paragraphs constitute evidence. this is only true if they actually say anything logical or useful.

is everyone obligated to fight wagons on them the way you feel they should, by reaching out to people?

well you were saying that 5 and 6 were the same for others and I'm saying they're not. and yea, usually when someone is pushing on you and you're town the natural reaction is "ok I should figure out if they're mafia or if they're misguided"

[hercule]

it should probably tell you something that mastina does not appear to be surprised to see either LLD or myself discrediting her.

well I have a different opinion of mastina based in my limited experience with her so I suppose we shall just not see eye to eye here

[hercule]

it should probably tell you something that mastina does not appear to be surprised to see either LLD or myself discrediting her.

well I have a different opinion of mastina based in my limited experience with her so I suppose we shall just not see eye to eye here

and we don't have to, i just need you to understand that this isn't something coming from a scum agenda and i would be doing it regardless of the color of my role pm

alright I just think that if you're town you should try to not let your pre-existing biases prevent you from engaging critically with what she's saying. but if that is a bridge too far i'm not about to play relationship counselor over here lmao

[hercule]

I mean I just think that she does provide actual value, some of her "big blocks of text" were actually very thorough and in depth

[hercule]

anyway that's enough caping for me

[hercule]

the case for scum!LLD, to me, is:

1. enters the thread with sole purpose of discrediting mastina and "eliminate players in inverse order of her preference"

2. then decides to back up this idea by saying just that my entrance was garbage

3. re-iterates that my entrance was garbage multiple times in order to get votes on me

4. rallies the thread to vote me, still with no evidence

(4.5?) big ego post about their scumgame

5. when i finally respond to her like, "ok, enough's enough let's talk" she's just like "nah lol you're caught scum"

6. when i'm like "ok well that's bullshit" she's like "lmaoooo such a scum reaction now my vote is, like, even more justified"

7. when a counterwagon forms on her, she AtEs and leaves the thread (also like, can't tell if she's mad that more people aren't voting me despite her not seeming to be sure or just mad that she's being voted)

i'm aware this is a slightly humorously uncharitable framing of her game but it also feels like a somewhat reasonable one

At this point I want dgb to point to what the case was -before- this post, but:

1-3, 4.5 I don't think is scummy. 2-3 Can come from town who is scumhunting, in particular
4. I disagree that there is no evidence. Off the top of my head she laid some stuff out/pointed to things and said it felt like scum
5-6 is fair. I don't think it's a smoking gun because where she is coming from is that if you're scum then allowing you to change the conversation/nitpick at little things she says is not something she wants to do, but he should probably be letting you speak and reconsidering if she isn't as confident as she is projecting at this point
7 idk

I think this is a reasonable take on the situation, also it wasn't supposed to be necessarily each point was scummy more just a narrative of her play this game that overall I feel is scummy. I agree that 2-3 can be fine in a vacuum and maybe 5-6 isn't a smoking gun but yes the "projected confidence" is what gets me and maybe there's an explanation for it that she hasn't shared yet. But I am also colored by my team's take on 7

[hercule]

i dont enjoy doing this but people see big blocks of text and become hypnotized without critically analyzing them for actual value and i'd like to win this game without just betting it all on a black box full of random chance.

How does this line up with:

i did not do a lot of research i just saw something that sounded convincing and said sure that can have my vote let's see how that goes

there are points in there that i read and enjoyed
i dont want to continue dunking on mastina every post i make but she says "LLD is scum, she feels like scum, could this come from a town LLD? yes. but it just doesn't this game. xtoxm knows what i'm talking about. dannflor knows what i'm talking about. dgb knows what i'm talking about." 200 different ways and that is not analysis

From my memory there was only one post like that

[hercule]

i dont enjoy doing this but people see big blocks of text and become hypnotized without critically analyzing them for actual value and i'd like to win this game without just betting it all on a black box full of random chance.

How does this line up with:

i did not do a lot of research i just saw something that sounded convincing and said sure that can have my vote let's see how that goes

also this is a good catch in general regardless of whether there is a good explanation

[hercule]

I think this is a reasonable take on the situation, also it wasn't supposed to be necessarily each point was scummy more just a narrative of her play this game that overall I feel is scummy. I agree that 2-3 can be fine in a vacuum and maybe 5-6 isn't a smoking gun but yes the "projected confidence" is what gets me and maybe there's an explanation for it that she hasn't shared yet. But I am also colored by my team's take on 7

She said she was projecting confidence because if she doesn't, the wagon on you falls apart. Which seems fine to me if she's trying to pressure you, and then she talked about that with me.

What I'm considering is that maybe she was trying to buddy with me, because I'm not really sure why she was all 'thank god you're town' at me earlier. This isn't me saying she's scummy, this is just a consideration, and it's subtle, but I do think lld would be interested in buddying me in a subtle way. I'm willing to work with lld regardless

I remember her saying she needed the charisma to keep the wagon on me but that was later and doesn't track for me with how she was engaging me when I was initially reaching out to her.

[hercule]

btw I am going to be out of town from Saturday until Saturday. I won't exactly be V/LA because I will have my laptop and I'll make sure to log in to my account on my phone before I leave. But I won't have a ton of time to play. If that's an issue for anyone let me know and I'll see if I can do anything about it

[hercule]

hey just wanted to make a non-game-related goodbye post, won't put any thoughts about the game here but after reflecting on it I feel like it's best for the game and myself if I seek a replacement, considering I will be on a 7 day vacation and would probably do a credit to myself to not be thinking about a mafia game during it, plus EoD will happen during it, and I would rather give my replacement ample time to read the thread so it's prob best if I just do it now

I really enjoyed meeting and playing with you people and hopefully will get a chance to do so again in the future!

cheers xx

[hercule]

this game took forever!! it wasn't the most fun rolling scum back to back but the mafia team totally kicked ass. glad y'all pulled out the victory. this table was totally stacked, I was impressed with many town players while I was playing. I didn't follow too much after I subbed since I was pretty busy but seeing LLD limmed after her incredible entrance putting me (and therefore Luca) on the back ropes right off the bat was definitely a triumph

[hercule]

miss u already bb

absolutely my pleasure playing against you and with you

[hercule]

the polarization around my slot was so hilarious to me. I can only really speak about day one but there was something inherently joyful about mastina's defense of my slot that I would never ever change my playstyle that much, with LLD saying "bro idc about last game he's scummy as fuck" with all the other side plots like ceph vs. mast and the mafia team just trying to shitpost for as long as possible. really had fun during my time in the game

[hercule]

and for what its worth hercule, u did pocket me game 1

i just wanted to be annoying

lmao wtf you're wrong for that one!!! i was like "damn... you think you know someone"

[hercule]

honestly I came into the first game thinking it would be really easy to be scum on a table where no one knows me except koba, and then it was just relentless, avid scumhunting from incredibly intelligent people all over the place and I was like dear lord