TM 2021 - Black Flag Nightless

[MathBlade]

Hi everyone catching up! Just got notification I was replaced in but I am on a RPG call for a few hours.

If everyone could give me a quick paragraph of the game so far from your perspective (and not any teammates) to get a feel that’d be awesome. Will start from that and read during lulls.

[MathBlade]

- infinity (autumn leaves) pressured early, I think defused by chennis who said gamestate didn’t feel right / townbloc too easy (oh my LORD now that i’m writing this it does sound quite partnery)
- lots of shitfights between koba and super
- infinity mentions some suspicion on super being deepwolf, super responds by pushing infinity, mena replaces in and infinity calls him scum, mena calls infinity scum, lots of yelling between mena, koba, infinity, super (I’m still trying to reread this part because it got really confusing)
- infinity tried to start mini wagon on flopz (presumably when it seemed like pushing mena/super wasn’t going anywhere)
- mini wagon on Johnny without much of a counterwagon
- we are around here now?? not sure if I missed anything important

fwiw I don’t think we should wait a ton longer to end D1. we’re all just going to get apathetic if this drags out much longer. I think we should let mathblade get caught up and hopefully I can finish my reread and then let’s start wagoning people. I think we’re already starting to flag (get it? ha I’m so funny).

ask for everyone if you haven’t done this recently:
- quick readslist (can be as quick as mine above, ie willing to elim vs not willing)
- ideal elim for today

I agree long D1s are bad in this kind of setup especially. My teammates told me this game was toxic before I asked them to be quiet and let me get my own footing on the game. The fact there was toxicity means that people generally seem to be unaware of how to play Black Flag / White Flag setups. It’s going to seem weird at first what I say but in general it should be a pool of would elim / would not elim. Our goal should be to eliminate “not town” versus “scum”. Now I say this for two reasons:

One, scum do not have a night kill. This means if we can get enough people to obvTown we win the game. Then we eliminate everyone not in said town block, we win. Yes, I hate town blocks and am being hypocritical but it’s what this setup needs.

And Two, we have much more fluidity than scum. This will become much more evident as the game draws to a close.

Right now for today since Lilith gave me that summary and it’s something I can read and verify they are on my “not today” for elim list. I don’t care what so much that’s in it that makes her Townie right now that can be checked later but the fact she cared enough to post it was.

[MathBlade]

Unwilling to elim: lilith, mena
Not a preferred elim: fire, math, joqiza
Preferred elims: chenn, flopz, auro, johnny

Really not sure who my favorite elim is, and this could change pending joqiza content/talking to kanna

Reads List:

Unwiling to elim: Everyone not named mena
willing to elim: Mena


General reads list in order of townieness to least:
Super slot, Koba slot, Lilitth 2013, Auro, Infinity, , Flops, Johnny, Chennisden, mena

General tier brackets:
{Koba slot, Super slot}
{Lilith, auro}
{Intinify}
{flopz, johnny}
{Chennisden}
{Mena}

Take the difference in mindset compared to what I said here. Autumn Leaves and Firebringer are very much within my PoE. Autumn Leaves just lists a lot of names and preferred but his not preferred is very tiny. This means either A) Autumn Leaves has a hero mentality which is bad for town or B) Is scum who wants those players in the bottom tier. Either is bad would elim.

Firebringer on the other hand with his would elim of Mena or that’s it makes it very difficult for conversations to sort him around that slot to emerge. General tier brackets don’t help either as it doesn’t give insight into who you think is scum / would elim. It’s very good for obfuscation down the line and I hate it.

So Autumn Leaves and Firebringer are in my would elim pool today

[MathBlade]

and yes his initial entrance was scummy and was the worst thing the "omg guys i am glad i got town too you got no idea". Like i only see scum making thesee entrances. Can anyone tell me a game where town says something like that?

I can’t say I have but I tend to not be in RVS much because I prefer replacing in. With the amount of reading I already have I have 0 desire to go and read a shit ton of RVS to see if that is true. It seems like it should be true.

[MathBlade]

Since you don’t seem interested in trying to convince anyone, I’m not going to try to argue about stuff and will instead just file it in my brain for later

Convincing anyone isn’t really the goal imho. It’s more about building good community with each other and then using that good community to find scum. Scum generally can’t obvTown for long periods and therefore want there to be division and chaos. If we don’t give them that then scum has to try to create division and then hopefully become obvious. I know it seems really counter intuitive but if scum have no where to push then they push in the town block we nuke them. We win as a team and fail as heroes.

[MathBlade]

i mean... yes? is that a problem?

pretty much. ur asking both of us to waste time on something that won't change either of our minds. So why should we bother.

Because by bothering we can build an internal cadence. Both of you pretend to listen to each other. Anyone who doesn’t gets put into or is more deeply shoved into my would elim pool.

[MathBlade]

I'm infinity btw

Hi Infinity! Long time no see? Wanna tell me your top Town reads? Convince me you are gonna work with people?

Autumn Leaves and Firebringer are very much within my PoE.

You literally just got here.
I bet you haaven't read anything except lilith summary.

How do you already have a popular opinion that everyone holds.

Because it’s my opinion? I don’t give a shit if my opinion is popular what I care about is communicating with people and fostering that.

[MathBlade]

You Lillith and Infinity are the ones that have posted. This is a fact.

You and Infinity seem to have very narrow anti cooperation posts since I have gotten in. This is a fact (you’ve said Mena or else) Infinities are a big more subtle with their reads list.

And yes I haven’t read any of the prior thread. I said as much.

This feels like you’re trying to twist what I am doing in building a communicative block into something bad.

If you want off my shit list work with people. Otherwise I have zero fucks elimming you.

[MathBlade]

You Lillith and Infinity are the ones that have posted. This is a fact.

You and Infinity seem to have very narrow anti cooperation posts since I have gotten in. This is a fact (you’ve said Mena or else) Infinities are a big more subtle with their reads list.

And yes I haven’t read any of the prior thread. I said as much.

This feels like you’re trying to twist what I am doing in building a communicative block into something bad.

If you want off my shit list work with people. Otherwise I have zero fucks elimming you.

Posted since my replace in**

Ebwop

[MathBlade]

VOTE: Firebringer

Okay then. If you won’t work with town you’re inherently against it. I normally do not care for townblocks myself but here it is extremely important and one of the best weapons we have against scum.

[MathBlade]

You win when the town have been reduced to three members or less.

This here is inherently the scum’s wincon. How we win is we have a block of four that has at most one scum in it. This forces scum to amp up their game. Everyone here should have no excuse. With that being said going to make dinner and get to reading some of this.

[MathBlade]

I am at the bottom of page six and Super is my top town read, if you know what I mean

[MathBlade]

I am more open to voting Autumn because my townread on them has basically dissipated.

What would a would elim and not elim pool look for you?

I’d be down for autumn/infinity too based their posting I’ve read so far. Nothing screams town.

[MathBlade]

And there is no “maybe” it’s in one side or the other and if you waffle put it in would elim. You’ll be happier for it

[MathBlade]

Why do you say any town block we make is gonna suck?

[MathBlade]

Generally when I ask I do want a serious answer yes.

I am getting kinda sleepy from a last night and speed reading like the intros/ends to a lot of games so gonna crash here but everyone try to bring your A cooperative game. I think we can do this.

[MathBlade]

The fact there was toxicity means that people generally seem to be unaware of how to play Black Flag / White Flag setups. It’s going to seem weird at first what I say but in general it should be a pool of would elim / would not elim. Our goal should be to eliminate “not town” versus “scum”.

Have you ever said this in a flag game when you were town/do you have examples of reputable players saying this as town in a flag game

Not exactly the same thing word for word, but Llamarble used this idea in white flag (even though iirc his reads were bad) and scum were forced to quit playing reactively and try to pretend to be town. That’s the same thing I want to force here. I am actually a big lover of mountainous and similar setups because they bring out the true nature of mafia. There’s no such thing as a “guilty” or an “inno”.

FoS for shading me on something easily provable. Like this makes me wonder if you’re even talking with your teammates or scumhunting at all.

[MathBlade]

Basically it struck me that I couldn’t really remember anything you’d done all game? Other than ask questions, but I don’t really remember you ever pushing your own ideas as opposed to sheeping things

Yeah that's fair and I think someone else had the same critique as well.

I got burnt from Mafia playing super aggressively and obsessively and that was the reason I took a long break. It's stressful and I want to have fun. >.> Trying to take it more chill now. I think I'm doing a great job avoiding refreshing MS *all day*

Okay that all makes a lot of sense but is not that reassuring bc I have no way of knowing if you’re the type of player who if they rolled scum would stick to their initial plan to just be more chill or if you’d feel more pressure to match your old meta and would turn it on more

Why are you trying to figure out what a person would do if they rolled scum versus if you would want to elim them or not? Why are you looking to be reassured versus looking for points of discomfort and smashing them?

[MathBlade]

Also I’m just lowkey wondering if fb might be town

And infinity said exactly one thing (that I don’t wanna disclose rn) that made me worry if he could be town

And so that made me think that I need to just double check everyone and that I’m still happy with my reads

VOTE: Menalque

Oh yeah you can be elimmed. Hating town block design, attacking provable information, desire for comfort, random lines without any noticeable train of thought. Convince me you aren’t scum.

[MathBlade]

id rather see u lead this game here but for some reason people are divided on u

They won't be when I get two scum elim'd 8)

Meanwhile let's talk about Menalque. Do you really believe he'd make a "fine, elim me or Super then trust the other" type deal as scum?

Will definitely need to look at this later and see if a Menalque+Super pairing could be a thing.

[MathBlade]

if you’re the type of player who if they rolled scum would stick to their initial plan to just be more chill or if you’d feel more pressure to match your old meta and would turn it on more

Btw either way I think it'll induce the same amount of paranoia

I don't think he meant it to begin with. So theres that?

Really? Because I felt those posts were pretty genuine and that bumped up Mena to a townread for me: and he was a scumspected slot, what do you think he'd have done if there was a wagon on him?

(Drats, should've voted him then lol)

His actions are pretty clearly suited to get him to live. I don't believe the posts about him being fine with getting yeeted in order to prove X or Y is scum or town.

Almost like the questions are meaningless attempts to hunt versus actually hunting.

[MathBlade]

How do you guys feel about voting Chen instead?

Not really feeling it. He’s at least trying the thought experiment I had even if he disagrees with it.

[MathBlade]

The fact there was toxicity means that people generally seem to be unaware of how to play Black Flag / White Flag setups. It’s going to seem weird at first what I say but in general it should be a pool of would elim / would not elim. Our goal should be to eliminate “not town” versus “scum”.

Have you ever said this in a flag game when you were town/do you have examples of reputable players saying this as town in a flag game

Not exactly the same thing word for word, but Llamarble used this idea in white flag (even though iirc his reads were bad) and scum were forced to quit playing reactively and try to pretend to be town. That’s the same thing I want to force here. I am actually a big lover of mountainous and similar setups because they bring out the true nature of mafia. There’s no such thing as a “guilty” or an “inno”.

FoS for shading me on something easily provable. Like this makes me wonder if you’re even talking with your teammates or scumhunting at all.

This isn’t shade lol

Well, idk, maybe it is, but you repping into a slot I feel ambiguous on albeit leaning town to go “hey yeah let’s just form a townbloc that’s definitely optimal strategy” feels like it could be powerwolfing

It really just feels like due diligence? Are you saying scum wouldn’t just lie about optimal strategy?

I am saying that you’re not actually putting deep thought into your posts. Rather than think about the strategy and if it has merit you ask me to prove it. Rather than think about if I lie about optimal strategy you ask if I am. It’s like you’re doing very surface level things to avoid any sort of unity. Could it be a power wolf strategy? (Cenk Ugyur style) Of course! But that’s why you poke me and get to know me and sort me, not immediately attack what I do with baseless crap.

[MathBlade]

Anyone here who knows me and we have played together knows I almost never if ever lie. Combined that with asking Auro about his meta means you’re being very very picky about when you use meta abs when you don’t. It’s like you can’t go deep.

[MathBlade]

Also I’m just lowkey wondering if fb might be town

And infinity said exactly one thing (that I don’t wanna disclose rn) that made me worry if he could be town

And so that made me think that I need to just double check everyone and that I’m still happy with my reads

VOTE: Menalque

Oh yeah you can be elimmed. Hating town block design, attacking provable information, desire for comfort, random lines without any noticeable train of thought. Convince me you aren’t scum.

read my iso, math, multiple points here (hating townbloc design, desire for comfort, random lines) are just v clearly not true or don’t make sense for me!scum

Beyond that I don’t really care that much if you act like I’m scum, your slot was already deathtunnelling me and if we have to lim you so be it

Oh I am planning on it. I literally just got up and have been catching up. You pinged me and so I am poking. Looks like Koba was a smart cookie. *nom nom nom*

[MathBlade]

@math again, that’s only an attack insofar as you’re perceiving it as one? If you’d said “no, there is no evidence of town saying this is optimal anywhere” then yes, I would have had to evaluate it on its own merits

But cognitive load wise it’s a lot easier to just ask if there is evidence of town players with a solid grasp of strategy saying the same thing elsewhere than to do that off the bat

Is it lazy of me? Sure, but I think being lazy on the things I can be lazy on is perfectly justifiable (and I think you’d have a very hard time arguing I’ve been lazy with regard to this game in general)

Your second paragraph is exactly why I think you’re scum. It’s easier to attack where the idea originated than the merits of the idea. I already said it was weird. I expected push back but on the merits not the source.

[MathBlade]

And okay fine, go and read my iso and come back to me then

But fmpov you’re overreacting to what wasn’t even a push/shade (again, I suppose I can see how you can view it as shade but in that case it was unintentional)

And that overreaction itself is making me uneasy

Lmao calling something an overreaction to shade me more while saying it’s not a shade. I can’t. Lol

[MathBlade]

His actions are pretty clearly suited to get him to live. I don't believe the posts about him being fine with getting yeeted in order to prove X or Y is scum or town.

The way I see it it's very difficult to back out and retaliate against people if they're wagoning you after *you* propose "elim me then trust X elim Y". I made a similar proposition last year in WF as well.

Wouldn't that just mean its a good manipulation tactic.

Ugh you can be town who just hates blocks. Come join my Menalque wagon. Fire is in my no elim pool today for this.

[MathBlade]

Wouldn't that just mean its a good manipulation tactic.

It's certainly manipulative. But town can be manipulative. This is the sorta thing that's OK for town to make -- as their own lim is not really that bad for town -- but risky for scum to make (as if people do call the bluff and start wagoning you, on D1 when there's no solid leads anyway, there's no backing out).

And the payoff is... what... A miselim on Autumn Leaves? That sounds like a terrible decision for scum to make.

Hmm you can go in my no elim pool today too.

[MathBlade]

@math again, that’s only an attack insofar as you’re perceiving it as one? If you’d said “no, there is no evidence of town saying this is optimal anywhere” then yes, I would have had to evaluate it on its own merits

But cognitive load wise it’s a lot easier to just ask if there is evidence of town players with a solid grasp of strategy saying the same thing elsewhere than to do that off the bat

Is it lazy of me? Sure, but I think being lazy on the things I can be lazy on is perfectly justifiable (and I think you’d have a very hard time arguing I’ve been lazy with regard to this game in general)

Your second paragraph is exactly why I think you’re scum. It’s easier to attack where the idea originated than the merits of the idea. I already said it was weird. I expected push back but on the merits not the source.

Again, why should I bother trying to sort the merits myself if I can proxy that out to known good faith town?

Because those players are not in this game, you are. Sometimes the best strategy overall is not the best case here. Everything has to be evaluated at the time it’s said and with the context of the game. “Eg all fake claimers die” is really more a “almost all fake claimers die” except when dealing with someone like Radiant Cowbells. It’s forcing the work you should be doing onto others and I hate it.

[MathBlade]

And okay fine, go and read my iso and come back to me then

But fmpov you’re overreacting to what wasn’t even a push/shade (again, I suppose I can see how you can view it as shade but in that case it was unintentional)

And that overreaction itself is making me uneasy

Lmao calling something an overreaction to shade me more while saying it’s not a shade. I can’t. Lol

It’s not shade if I’m just straight up saying your reaction is concerning and you could be scum?

That’s literally shade lol

A shade is a post designed and/or poking someone to make them look bad. Calling my reaction an overreaction poisons the mind of the reader. It’s a trick I use as scum a lot.

[MathBlade]

Fb is in your no elim pool despite your earlier concerns on him bc he’s voting for someone who pinged you but who you admittedly haven’t read most of the posts of?

^there you go math, that’s what shade looks like

Correct.
Firebringer is a player who is easily sorted with a bit of pressure.
And if I waited to read everyone’s iso before voting it would be a very long while before I did anything. I don’t roll like that. I vote what pings me and when I get time I look back and make sure it’s justified.

[MathBlade]

He may annoy the shit out of me for not agreeing with townblocking sure, but disagreement doesn’t always mean scum. It’s how he disagrees that makes him town. I wish I was Titus and could just magically make him agree but I am not.

[MathBlade]

@math again, that’s only an attack insofar as you’re perceiving it as one? If you’d said “no, there is no evidence of town saying this is optimal anywhere” then yes, I would have had to evaluate it on its own merits

But cognitive load wise it’s a lot easier to just ask if there is evidence of town players with a solid grasp of strategy saying the same thing elsewhere than to do that off the bat

Is it lazy of me? Sure, but I think being lazy on the things I can be lazy on is perfectly justifiable (and I think you’d have a very hard time arguing I’ve been lazy with regard to this game in general)

Your second paragraph is exactly why I think you’re scum. It’s easier to attack where the idea originated than the merits of the idea. I already said it was weird. I expected push back but on the merits not the source.

Again, why should I bother trying to sort the merits myself if I can proxy that out to known good faith town?

Because those players are not in this game, you are. Sometimes the best strategy overall is not the best case here. Everything has to be evaluated at the time it’s said and with the context of the game. “Eg all fake claimers die” is really more a “almost all fake claimers die” except when dealing with someone like Radiant Cowbells. It’s forcing the work you should be doing onto others and I hate it.

Okay, I don’t really care if you hate it or not, it’s just being (1) humble and (2) prophylactic against scum trying to push suboptimal strategy

Also your analogy doesn’t work bc you’re talking about a strategy which we as a whole should follow with regard to the game overall, not whether or not a particular slot should be treated a certain way

It quite literally does.

If you’re cooking what’s the best way to do prep?
If you’re solving a math problem, what’s the best way to find the needed info?

There’s a standard answer that then can be seen if it applies in this game. This game is the context.

[MathBlade]

And okay fine, go and read my iso and come back to me then

But fmpov you’re overreacting to what wasn’t even a push/shade (again, I suppose I can see how you can view it as shade but in that case it was unintentional)

And that overreaction itself is making me uneasy

Lmao calling something an overreaction to shade me more while saying it’s not a shade. I can’t. Lol

It’s not shade if I’m just straight up saying your reaction is concerning and you could be scum?

That’s literally shade lol

A shade is a post designed and/or poking someone to make them look bad. Calling my reaction an overreaction poisons the mind of the reader. It’s a trick I use as scum a lot.

That’s not how I use shade

Shade is when you try to make a slot look bad/worse without actually calling them out or saying you think they’re scum

It’s a way to damage them without exposing yourself

Saying someone is scummy for something and explaining why isn’t shade

Agree to disagree. I am not spamming the thread with word definition fight with you when I have a shit ton to read and catch up on.

[MathBlade]

Auro, I get that you like to argue, but what exactly are you trying to achieve here? Mena probably isn't getting eliminated today, and fire has already said he's not changing his mind.

@Chenn Why is your TR on me gone?

And why exactly is Menalque probably not getting eliminated today? You buddies with him or something?

[MathBlade]

There's

so much more value

in unifying town as opposed to individually just pushing your pet elimination and trying to out-shout the rest.

Let's try not using buzzwords like "unify town" and actually assess the results. I feel like what you're proposing here would do that - let the loudest players intimidate everyone else into submission

That’s the thing, loud players here can’t do that when there is a townblock. It’s literally antiMathBlade / antiTitus protection. If a majority of people have me in their “would elim” pools it prevents a power wolf/deep wolf from taking hold. If people hold to their “has to be within x people” where X is the number of scum or less then you can get loud angry resistance if the top posters don’t like it. Instead forcing collaboration forces consistency in reads and makes people pretend to be town. It’s not a buzz word if used properly.

[MathBlade]

VOTE: Chenn

This entire posting from Flopz is ewwwww. Definitely would eliminate today.

[MathBlade]

Playing mafia isn’t cooking or solving a math problem

Also, the easiest way to get the answer to a math problem is copying the work of the kid who’s (1) good at maths and (2) you know is good because there’s proof of it

You don’t have a reliable “good at maths” kid, so you have to evaluate yourself. The question is I am wondering if you can.

I am going to be reading now and asking my teammates for their reads since I think I have a foot hood on the game. Will be back on Monday night at the latest. I have to run errands this afternoon and D&D tonight so may not be on much.

[MathBlade]

You don’t have a reliable “good at maths” kid

*Raises hand* Just let me

integrate

into the town block.

Haha. I will put you in the dont elim pile today.

[MathBlade]

Math's thought processes are mostly only going to make sense in his head, I think the approach of "let's see how many people go along with my townbloc strategy and use it to read them" is kinda self-centered in a towny way, if anything. It's difficult to explain but I don't think the things you're pushing math on are the right way to read him because yeah, his progressions haven't made a ton of sense to me but I'm pretty sure that's NAI

I think that is the nicest way to say Math is moonlogicky so he is town that I have ever heard.

[MathBlade]

Playing mafia isn’t cooking or solving a math problem

Also, the easiest way to get the answer to a math problem is copying the work of the kid who’s (1) good at maths and (2) you know is good because there’s proof of it

Wolfram Alpha thinks it is the best way, and I would be inclined to agree.

But there’s alpha wolf right there...lol

[MathBlade]

When I'm scum one of my biggest priorities is not to die and when I'm town it's much lower on the list of things I care about

I think sorting me w/ that mindset will make it a lot easier.

Not really no. That’s typical for most players and it’s about finding out what the mindset is versus stating a typical one.

[MathBlade]

I'm here! Sorry all. The timing of this adorable bastard being born really fucked with my play time. Prolly not gonna do an in depth catchup so can everybody give me a quick like 2 sentence case on whoever you're voting?

No complex deep thought.
Tried to shade/poke/etc/whatever word here at easily provable things
Misrepped my response as an overreaction.

[MathBlade]

Had to figure out who mathblade was cuz he's not on the playerlist in 0

Is mathblade considerably scummy? Because from what I remember koba was like top tier townread

Also hi mathblade! Your pretty good about replacing into stuff

Ewww this is ugly would elim. Don’t get me wrong I like compliments but this feels ewwww:

[MathBlade]

I've given the game a second pass-through, and I have a couple of wallposts incoming. Brace yourselves.

First,

Auro

. I townread this player; I think based on my read-through, it is he who seems to be weighing the Autumn vs. Mena/Super conflict from the towniest perspective, and his suspicion of Super which feels most genuine. His perspective in 2031 is well-explained, and he seems to be actually forming implications based on a scum!Super world, since he felt scum!Super would imply town!Autumn. It felt like he updated that implication as the game progressed and his read on Super evolved. I noticed 2129 as a decent insight to the situation, presented matter-of-factly. I like his theorizing in 2159, both the tone and the fact that his team considered the idea. I get the sense that Auro has been thinking about the game closely, and picking up on things, such as in 2982, when he picks up on Autumn's reversal on chennisden--this is something I noticed myself. Lastly, I think his angleshoot in 2969 is probably a town-indicative thought process, though I can't discuss the specific content in that post.

Second,

chennisden

. The main thing I noticed, and I'll get to this in my second wallpost, was the relationship between him and Autumn. There are certain posts I like by Chen; 156 feels kind of self-indulgent in the way I and other villagers sometimes get, when we start waxing poetic about Information and Win Condition and Positioning and such. Following that, I don't mind when he starts going on about weighted graph theory and keystone slots, I guess I sort of see the game in a similar way. I'm mostly confused by the people he included as keystone slots: 1849 and his explanation in 1860. I understand Super and Menalque, I guess, but why Auro? And why does Auro have the most connections? I wouldn't say it's non-sensical, there might be meaning behind it, but I don't quite understand it.

My main impression of chen is that he

really really

wanted to push outside of the Super & Mena vs. Autumn conflict. He consistently proposes wagon options inside, including Auro, then DkKoba, then Johnny. This is true even as he seems to be coming around to both Super and Menalque being town. In terms of tone he seems relatively loose to me, and there are certain posts I like. For instance, I like him picking up on 2728 and 2736, because that

was

weird, and I considered that too; lilith-team's TR on flopz based on meta is one of the less observable thought processes in the game, even if I find her explanation OK.

I kinda liked him engaging directly with Menalque during 2467.

I really think chen will be easier to evaluate after Autumn is resolved. I'm not interested in flipping him today, because I feel like so much of his slot is contingent on Autumn's flip. His pushing outside during the Super/Autumn conflict

might

be towny if Autumn flips town. Obviously he's a viable partner if Autumn flips scum: I expand on that in next post.

Firebringer

. I like his tone throughout. I like 1070, and I like how that segued off of him memeing around a bit with chenn. His TR on Super throughout the game is... maybe a pocket? But I don't see any reason it

has

to be. I think his reasoning w.r.t to Menalque in 2778 is acceptable. But yeah, I did get the same impression on my first read-through, that Menalque might be FOSing Autumn from a place of town entitlement. I think his doubling down on Menalque in 3017 reads a

bit

towny, as it's against consensus as that point in the game.

My main conclusions on the three fellas. I think Auro is towny independent to what Autumn Leaves flips. I think chenn and FB are both sus if Autumn flips scum, but have towny moments and decent tone throughout. FB's tone I like a bit more than chennis. But really I don't want to vote either today, I want to resolve Autumn, bc if Autumn flips town it means I and my team have to fully re-examine this game in light of that, and I think I can parse chennis/FB for partner eq. more effectively once scum!Autumn is in the graveyard.

Flopz

didn't move much for me on rr, as expected. I think his tone in all his posts is Fine, so most of my notes about him are like, in relation to how he's talked about Autumn and if they're viable partners and such. I do kinda laugh cuz I saw lilith, and I think one other slot somewhere, say he's town cuz he's outside his scum meta. Not necessarily disputing the charge, I mean idk, just find it funny if he's outside his scumrange already despite not really doing much.

Johnny

is legitimately scummy in his sparse posting in the second half of the game. His vote on me in 2655 is suspicious in that it is immediate following my substitution for Super--a new player in a slot presents an opportunity to re-evaluate. The vote is possibly reactive to the votes on him placed by Chen and Lilith. I think if I were a villager in Johnny's position, following the replacement I would at least hesitate before placing a vote down on the new player in the slot, in that situation. He may also simply be scum!Autumn's partner: I expand on this in my next post.

---

My view of the game

ordered from least willing to elim to most willing to elim

menalque
lilith
auro
dkkoba
flopz
firebringer
chennisden
---------------
johnny
autumn

I will vote slots below the dotted line.

---

Autumn

is my primary scumread, he is my team's primary scumread, he is the slot that I feel has not given me a sense at all of "this is a villager." I would like to eliminate Autumn today.

My reasoning for wanting him resolved is a bit different from Super's or my team's, it is simply that I feel that of all the player's I've read, Autumn Leave's thought process seems the most likely to be artificial. He's able to justify his reasoning for why people are town fairly easily, but seems to struggle in explaining why he suspects people of being scum. His scumread on Super was based off intuition that he admitted to not being able to justify. In general he seems to reach conclusions on certain slots being town, such as on Koba in 563, a bit too easily. Most of his defenses come down to the statement of "but I play like this as town," which, I mean, sure, but it's a very typical thing for scum to reply with.

I can't help but shake the feeling that he is scum, who when asked to find other scum, is unable to fabricate convincing suspicion on townies, and unwilling to hard-bus.

I will settle for Johnny if needed. Can't really be that sure on him, cuz he's mostly absent, but I think in the case where he's town there's a good chance he just votes me consistently without re-evaluating or dialoguing, so I wouldn't really be too pressed over his elimination. My preference to eliminate Autumn mostly comes from the difficulty in really evaluating Johnny, and the fact that I think a town!Autumn flips gives more information than a town!Johnny flip would.

Every other slot above my dotted line I would not like to eliminate today, and I'll resist any wagon proportional to how high they are on the list. I do think we need to break the stalemate on this D1 at some point... it has lasted forever, and this game is

dense.

Parsing through this has taken like, a whole lot of my weekend, and if we delay it's only gonna get worse.

(I apologize I did skim this and will look more later when it’s not super late but I did have two questions)

1) Why is this only including some players and not others?
2) Why are you assuming autumn leaves is the elimination and framing it around that instead of who could be scum and/or would elim or would not list? Why does it seem like you’re centering things on sorting autumn?

[MathBlade]

Yeah lots of words in 3193 and it looks like that’s an autumn case but I am way too sleepy to do it justice. I did however skim the post numbers and I wonder if you’re caught up?

You said iirc you read the game but I didn’t see any recent post numbers (I could have missed some and it’s late)

I am curious if you’re not caught up or if that’s a lot of words to look Townie versus being Townie?

I haven’t seen you interact with people (I am sure it’s probably earlier where you have) but it’s been since I have replaced in for you to respond to people J. Not a fan. Would elim.

[MathBlade]

It seems like everyone wants to eliminate Johnny yet no one is willing to actually put forward the votes

+1 loving this.

[MathBlade]

would like for johnny to say something before we eject.

Nth on Johnny and agreed there. Definitely want to hear from him.

[MathBlade]

It seems like everyone wants to eliminate Johnny yet no one is willing to actually put forward the votes

+1 loving this.

Are you sure about that? because the lack of pickup on Johnny was just because no one showed initiative, unlike in the case of AL. We should definitely elim AL D2 and then hunt off the Johnny wagon for the other scum.

So you’re thinking AL and Johnny are scum together? What makes you say that?

My nth to be clear is not a vote it’s more like another intent.

[MathBlade]

And in regards to your question, I am sure I love the post. I saw a lot of Johnny’s in would elim piles and no votes.

[MathBlade]

has no one pointed out the obvious at this point that almost assuredly for johnny to be scum right now he almost has to be assuredly be bussed.

Phone 1% intentionally not to avoid tainting reactions for VCa overnight. Thanks for tainting it /s

[MathBlade]

Responses in line underlined

(I apologize I did skim this and will look more later when it’s not super late but I did have two questions)

1) Why is this only including some players and not others?
2) Why are you assuming autumn leaves is the elimination and framing it around that instead of who could be scum and/or would elim or would not list? Why does it seem like you’re centering things on sorting autumn?

1) I feel like you asking this implies you haven't read my earlier posts. Read my iso.

As I said earlier RL has bitten me in the butt and I do not have time to do so. So I haven’t. The implication is correct.

2) I don't understand this question. I'm interested in resolving my scumreads because they either flip mafia or give me information to re-evaluate.

This post seems like you’re assuming the gamestate will go that way. This doesn’t take into account namely not elimming AL, and therefore is a lot of words that if we don’t elim AL won’t come into play.

Yeah lots of words in 3193 and it looks like that’s an autumn case but I am way too sleepy to do it justice. I did however skim the post numbers and I wonder if you’re caught up?

You said iirc you read the game but I didn’t see any recent post numbers (I could have missed some and it’s late)

I am curious if you’re not caught up or if that’s a lot of words to look Townie versus being Townie?

I haven’t seen you interact with people (I am sure it’s probably earlier where you have) but it’s been since I have replaced in for you to respond to people J. Not a fan. Would elim.

This post is deeply concerning to me. I'm not sure how to articulate why, but it's probably down to the fact that you 1. acknowledge that there is an earlier part of the game that should lend context to my posts, 2. proceed to ignore that context and say you'd elim me because you think I haven't interacted enough in the brief interim of time since you've subbed in.

On the contrary, I am saying I would look at the context of those prior posts later. What it looks like is that your big catch up all doesn’t include everything despite catching up. I was looking at this close to midnight my time and was more looking for if this could be plausible and worth my time versus an in-depth analysis

Also, your response here to 3192 and 3193 sounds basically like, "Lots of words..... TOO MANY WORDS???"

There are a few recent post #'s. Those two posts are based off content from the entire game.

[MathBlade]

The response of too many words was accurate. It’s something I would need to devote time to versus shorter posts are much faster to evaluate. Eg I am responding at lunch right now so I can do certain things

[MathBlade]

@Flopz

Can you explain the basis of your Chen scumread? My understanding from reading your posts is that you'd suspected a Chen/Autumn team, as you'd felt they'd moved together. Your progression from, "Chen/Autumn might be a team," to "Chen is scum, but Autumn is town," doesn't feel clear to me.

My reads have been a mess lately lol. As the game went on Infinity started to feel more town to me but I still didn't like the associations between Infinity and Chenn, tho now I feel that it's all from Chenn's side and not Infintiy.

The Townlean on Infinity is a work-in-progress, It's like I think he's both Towny and Scummy but in different gamestates and I'm confused and that I'm leaning more towards Mena scum which means that Infinity would be more Towny and idk, lot's of contrasting narratives bubbling away in my head.

I think here is a good explanation on my mind being a tad lost at that time lol

Through that I was feeling more comfortable with my Infinity read but was progressivley not liking Chenn. I think good examples of that was the complete Nothingburger that was Fire v Chenn, I kinda expected that if Chenn was Town he would have actually tried to do something with that but he basically just did nothing, no questions to fire or trying to read him through that, just a smidge of memeing before just disengaging from that. Also, Chenn's push on Lilith about her 'treatment' of me felt reaaly bad faith. Lilith's progression on me has always been pretty clear and she wasn't hiding that she was TRing me when she made that initial vote to bait a wagon. It felt to me that Chenn was making a mountain out of a molehill to throw shade at a pretty townread slot.

Don’t get me wrong, I am glad you’re scumleaning (?) Mena but this feels wrong. Almost nothing is a big “nothing burger” and something can be gleaned from it. I don’t like this and I am going to make a bit to look at that later.

[MathBlade]

VOTE: Flopz

This feels like my Menal read is bad not because my prior logic is bad but because your reaction makes me think it’s bad. If Flopz is town then I still think Menal is scum but you ping me something fierce.

[MathBlade]

Chen's individually scummier than AL, but Chen's actions have made sense as an AL partner, don't wagon movements show AL as the better elim though Flopz? (Refer previous arguments this page re: resistance, etc) From that alone I feel AL elim should precede Chennis.

Why are you partner hunting so soon?

One scum at a time then find partners.

Like I get people want to be heroes but seriously we win with a townblock not with this whole A>>B>>C crap. Focus on if A is true first.

[MathBlade]

Chen's individually scummier than AL, but Chen's actions have made sense as an AL partner, don't wagon movements show AL as the better elim though Flopz? (Refer previous arguments this page re: resistance, etc) From that alone I feel AL elim should precede Chennis.

I think Infinity and Menal was TvT so Scum were just waiting to see what happens as at that point there was still several days left and still is tbh. wow how do we still have over 6 days left. idk Johnny kinda has a LHF vibe rn and I fear that this can also be used to push for an Infinity lim D2.

How do you think Infinity and Menal is TVT while scumleaning (?) Menal.

[MathBlade]

do u think im scum? Cause ive been the biggest person against autumn wagon and i don't see who else is scum trying to ensure it doesn't happen?
maybe chennisden but who else?

I don't think they need to be explicitly loud voices, I think I'd go Chen then {Lilith/you} if game doesn't end.

Menal makes a good point here actually, in that scenario why is Lilitih in your POE after Infinity and Chen?

Now you’re listening to Menal? Wtf?

(Stopped here lunch break is over)

[MathBlade]

Flashwagoning mathblade would also be fun

Fun? Probably. Bad for town? Absolutely.

While things can be fun, not all things are things we should be doing.

[MathBlade]

koba’s playstyle is audacious so I don’t see why chainsawing infinity couldn’t be a thing. they did that in legends.

why mathblade > infinity now? after I just joined the wagon too .o.

I like this. Good question. The only memorable wagon changes of note between here and there was a wagon on Johnny and me voting Flopz.
Menalque doesn’t strike me as a panic!scum player so maybe Menalque Johnny?

But in any of those worlds I elim Johnny first. If then else is a bad idea especially since I think Menalque is power wolfing.

[MathBlade]

There once was a lad named Something_Smart,
My limericks he wished to tear apart,
If he can do better,
I’ll send him a sweater,
But if not he’s only getting a fart!

There once was no context for something like this,
Apparently rhyming brings him happiness,
I would appreciate if this would stop,
Because this makes my internal gut reader flop

[MathBlade]

koba’s playstyle is audacious so I don’t see why chainsawing infinity couldn’t be a thing. they did that in legends.

why mathblade > infinity now? after I just joined the wagon too .o.

Honestly he’s just annoying me more than infinity is at this point

I don’t really wanna do johnny tho, I just wanted to see if there would be any panic unvotes from anyone who knew he’d flip town

What makes you not want to do Johnny exactly?

[MathBlade]

I think math continuing to just give takes and to not read up or read ISOs is a Bad Look (tm)

I already said I couldn’t do this yet due to real life.
This is a very bad take.

I can and do plan on catching up I just can’t do that now without losing the context here.

[MathBlade]

back to game-related content: I think auro has decent chance of being scum regardless of what infinity flips

Interesting, why?

[MathBlade]

Also, like, I don’t think me voting math is that surprising lili: I already said that if infinity!town that’s where I’d wanna go tomorrow. I’m not sure there’s that much to be lost in reversing the order, but I’ll switch back to infinity if there isn’t support for this, I wanna end day shortly

I don’t think it’s an unreasonable vote? more asking because of wagoning things do you know what I mean

to be honest I don’t even know what I mean

Not... exactly? Basically, full disclosure, this is from a practical POV: I would like to kill in (infinity, math) until scumflip. If there’s not scum then I’ve fucked up p badly, so be it, that can’t be helped, but I think there’s decent odds there’s scum in there, probably >rand odds. I’ve fought all day for infinity and still think a lot would be resolved by flipping him — eg I think we almost always just kill in (Johnny and chenn) the next two days then reevaluate if the game isn’t over. However, I feel less confident on infinity than I did earlier — this may be because I’ve more or less made it clear what to do to get a TR from me (engage me in good faith, try to focus beyond small areas) and so he’s just... done that. He still hasn’t towned it up at all like he did in PyP imo, but he has improved.

Math coming in, proposing a big grand strategy, and then getting super shitty when I wanted to verify that it’s actually a strat that’s good for town is... dubious. Especially as I think he’d have used the fact that he proposed the strategy to try to ensure he was in the townbloc (where, if he’s scum, that definitely... weakens the strat and makes it easier for scum because one of them is fairly safe from elim). I also dislike his points that I don’t want a townbloc when among my opening posts I said something very along the lines of “if I can just find like 3 other town I’m confident in, ideally 4, then the game is basically won”. Which is not precisely talking about townblocs but which is thinking in that sort of way — successfully PoEing scum. Then there’s koba basically having just lazily tunnelled me/super for the entirety of the game after my rep in. I just don’t get good vibes from how math is playing this, and his lack of reading is concerning to me. I dislike that he’s pushing me without having read my ISO, and I dislike how quickly his suspicion of fb disappeared as soon as I *asked* about his strat. Wasn’t even critical, just asked about it.

So basically, I’m less sure on infinity and math has made the koba!slot worse imo. Which then brings me to my final reason for switching: I feel like it’s gonna be easier killing math today. I think infinity has sort of locked himself into a bad position as scum because he knows I’m very dubious of him but by insisting he super duper TRs me I think that’s a hard place to pivot out of it I push him tomorrow for instance (which I will prob be doing if math doesn’t flip scum). Whereas I feel like it’s going to be another absolute fucking slogfest to elim math tomorrow if I *am* wrong on infinity, and so for that reason I think I’d rather reverse the order rn

Oh no, this strategy I mentioned is the best strategy. Regardless of if everyone instantly dumped votes on me for a green flip.

You realize you’re in essence BOPing me for not reading 100+ pages in about 50 hours while working for 8 of them and actually having a fucking life on Sunday and doing my best to answer questions asked in other games? Yes I haven’t read backwards and yes that is shitty. But town’s got what it got. But I think at some point if you’re somehow town you have to realize my entire life cannot and will not revolve around mafia. This is a game ffs.

[MathBlade]

Re: Math slot - I'd like to hear if Nancy is following the game.

I have put out a notification in discord to ask but I follow the rule of you’re playing with me, not my teammates, I may ask them if I get stuck on a read but I am not actively playing the game as their surrogate.

[MathBlade]

So basically, I’m less sure on infinity and math has made the koba!slot worse imo. Which then brings me to my final reason for switching: I feel like it’s gonna be easier killing math today. I think infinity has sort of locked himself into a bad position as scum because he knows I’m very dubious of him but by insisting he super duper TRs me I think that’s a hard place to pivot out of it I push him tomorrow for instance (which I will prob be doing if math doesn’t flip scum). Whereas I feel like it’s going to be another absolute fucking slogfest to elim math tomorrow if I *am* wrong on infinity, and so for that reason I think I’d rather reverse the order rn

This is similar to my current reasoning.

In my view, a block of myself/Menalque/Lilith/Auro probably wins the game, with the possibility that one of the other three might be a deepwolf. If there's like more than 1 wolf in there than my view of the game is cracked. My current interest is in finding one more slot to add to that block that I feel is most likely to be a villager and who has the least partner equity with the slots currently in the bloc that have deepwolf potential.

Following that, Autumn's response of "okay, well you/Mena/Lilith are all obvtown, let's find one more villager who's not me," and then voting the person I said he's most likely to be teamed with, is fairly disarming. town!Autumn is an asset because, he, like, actually has a pulse and is following this game and living in roughly the same universe I'm living in, and simultaneously, scum!Autumn has kind of backed himself into a corner and has made it extremely difficult for himself to pivot without becoming blatantly obvious.

I think most of Math's posts so far have sucked. I'm willing to entertain that they just suck cuz he had to sub into a jungle of a game and he's not able to parse it yet. If they continue to suck he can eat rope.

I really just want to work on finding one more villager for the block and then pushing that block through and anyone who gets in my way can die. If people think the block is unpure they can say it with their chest instead of making vague histrionics about townblocks or deepwolves. In my view the block wins the game for town, so if you're playing against what I believe to be town's win condition you can get chopped. If you think my view of the game is wrong then bring me reasons, I'm listening.

Yay! At least someone gets the block strategy. But see this I respect. This posting is much better than Menalque’s keep J in your townblock.

[MathBlade]

Math also seems vaguely disingenuous if his whole thing is “a townbloc wins the game but only if I’m a member” is his position, which is kinda what it seems like to me

That is not my position AT ALL. This is horrible blatantly bad misrep. My position is that of J’s mentioned above. Find a townblock that is mutually agreed upon and execute outside of it. Re-evaluate said block on occasion then keep going.

[MathBlade]

I’m also not sure it’s exactly a bloc because of you/auro, fb/me, my diminished but still somewhat present auro paranoia

Would you elim any of those players today? No okay, then that’s your town block. Paranoia is good. Setting limits is also good.

[MathBlade]

Oh, right

I think fb is prob going to continue to tunnel me all game so I wouldn’t necessarily call this aligning, but I think if we can win before a lylo with both of us in it and I can stop him getting much influence in the game that probably isn’t a problem

Why does this read like it comes from a scum PT?

[MathBlade]

That doesn’t seem like a super helpful question, auro

Someone please explain why Menal is a townread other than (oh just reread the pages). That very much looks like a wool over the eyes response when someone doesn’t like their reads questioned.

I am thinking Flopz/Johnny/AL/Menalque for my would elim pool.

[MathBlade]

I’d say talking about influence is fine but I think charisma can have an oog implication of what people are like just in terms of their personality and it’s sort of a blurred line. Like skitter for instance is a very charismatic person as is the duck but I’ve seen games where neither of them could get what they wanted at all and had no influence despite their charisma

I think influence-wise it seems like johnny/flopz/fb/infinity are probably towards the bottom

Chennis somewhere in the middle as is math

Then maybe auro?

Then probably lili

Then probably joqiza and me

This is more for funsies than to demonstrate any point but joqiza, if you could sort people this game purely by charisma (independent of alignment) how would it look like?

Lists like these are fundamentally useless. Good scum don’t appear to have charisma and good town don’t always either. If you appear to have charisma you’re selling versus displaying facts and convincing. It’s almost better to be mid/low tier for that.

[MathBlade]

Oh right

I mean, I would disagree with that so long as he continues to call me scum and one of my aims is to continue sidelining him so long as that continues

So you’ll listen to him so long as he townreads you? What if a majority of the game didn’t townread you? Surely there would be a reason. Someone’s reads/alignment aren’t dependent on whether they read you right, they’re dependent on logic and thoughts and bringing those to the table to find scum.

[MathBlade]

Oh right

I mean, I would disagree with that so long as he continues to call me scum and one of my aims is to continue sidelining him so long as that continues

So you’ll listen to him so long as he townreads you? What if a majority of the game didn’t townread you? Surely there would be a reason. Someone’s reads/alignment aren’t dependent on whether they read you right, they’re dependent on logic and thoughts and bringing those to the table to find scum.

[MathBlade]

do u think im scum? Cause ive been the biggest person against autumn wagon and i don't see who else is scum trying to ensure it doesn't happen?
maybe chennisden but who else?

I don't think they need to be explicitly loud voices, I think I'd go Chen then {Lilith/you} if game doesn't end.

Menal makes a good point here actually, in that scenario why is Lilitih in your POE after Infinity and Chen?

Now you’re listening to Menal? Wtf?

(Stopped here lunch break is over)

Define listening? Men question marked something Auro said that I thought was interesting to follow-up on. I think you're super jumping the gun rn

What made you change between 2600 and now to think Menalque to here? I apologize I don’t remember the exact post but it was something that jumped out to me last night/lunch.

[MathBlade]

Is anybody wanting to know anything?

Mastina reads if she's had a chance to read up.
Would you be able to catch up and form reads?

Mastina has been busy, replacing into something like this has to be hard.

Honestly speaking, catching up probably isn't going to happen.

I mean there’s also interest in infinity or in mathblade (or maybe in me?) so you can try to argue why one of those 3 slots would be a better flip than you or for someone else entirely

I mean they're all better than me, but I can't really say I've found any of those slots scummy. I think voting infinity would give more info than me, though.

VOTE: Infinity

What consequences?

Just a town flip. I was under the impression that this game didn't have roles?

I'm around for a while if anybody wants to chat

Why are you focused on info vs reads?

[MathBlade]

Auro what do you think of fb again?

By play, townread -> vibing with him, plus his defusing of unhealthy tension in the game. Also I read his mild AtE regarding the pointlessness of talking to Lilith towny.

Don't think him being reasonable is him being town -- I think he'd try to diffuse unhealthy tension regardless of alignment.

You don’t have a reliable “good at maths” kid

*Raises hand* Just let me

integrate

into the town block.

Haha. I will put you in the dont elim pile today.

This joke will be quite

derivative

of Auro's

Like the derivative of an line, my read on you stays constant. However it did get a chuckle out of me.

[MathBlade]

Flashwagoning mathblade would also be fun

Keeping me around would be fun

Keeping everyone around would be fun. Think we’d probably lose though. Why are you saying such spammy shit?

[MathBlade]

Someone please explain why Menal is a townread other than (oh just reread the pages). That very much looks like a wool over the eyes response when someone doesn’t like their reads questioned.

I am thinking Flopz/Johnny/AL/Menalque for my would elim pool.

There are many reasons, but one of the easiest ones is that Menalque got incredibly hostile earlier in the thread, in a way that, based on a post I saw by him in the Scummies Nominations Thread 2020, he would be much less willing to do as scum.

I think that pool is good otherwise.

My current theory is that Johnny vs. Autumn is actually SvS and this game is much easier than we're making it. scum!Autumn sees 3193 and votes Johnny to try to get their partner some towncred before they get chopped.

In this universe, the third would probably be Flopz, who's currently trying to move the hang onto chen. But this is contingent on scum!Autumn and scum!Johnny and the game would end before he gets resolved, anyway.

I think Johnny/Autumn are both good options and I think there's a decent chance both wagons scum. I think Johnny is a slightly better choice than Autumn for reasons I've stated.

Imho your reason toward Menalque town seems very superficial. Town and scum can both be toxic. A town player triggered me and the game ended up getting toxic destroying what was a very very good scum game and got lost in elo. Toxicity isn’t alignment indicative what’s said in that toxicity is. I have put it inside of a spoiler because of toxicity reasons and said user is banned.

Spoiler: Trigger warning talks of suicide

Had a deep wolf game in Heroes where myself and Nancy had town snowballed on mechanics. I suggested vigging a scumbuddy for cred. Another player suggested I kill myself in response. I responded authentically and things got bad. Toxicity is not alignment indicative

That being said I like your elim pool and am down for any of those, but I kinda don’t want to hammer unless y’all are okay with me reading over the 24 hour period. If you’d rather me read today like some people are pushing the game would need to slow down a lot to support that.

[MathBlade]

I agree with the sentiment. Again the only reason I am not hammering is to read and if I have questions I can poke around, but it’s really no issue if Johnny is hammered now.

[MathBlade]

So starting on page 28 skimming here we goooooo

Flopz meta diving on that site with the bad UI seems towny.

There's a nervous energy about Cheney's posting that I can't quite place. Also having me as their least favorite person is just mean.

Fire punching in every direction and just being annoying in general puts them in my "I doubt scum would act like this in this setup" bucket right next to koba

The poem level in this game is dramatically higher than expected

Super asserting scum wouldn't bus in this game AND asserting that Chen / Fire can't be partners after their lil makeout sesh... bothers me. Unsure why tho. Will think on it.

850 is lamist from fire

Gotta say as I read up and more people are coming around on Cheney I'm feeling smug.

917 is bananas, mostly because I hard disagree with most of Auros reads. The Lilith take is spicy and the reads on me, flopz, and amp are forgettable. Notable that the only ACTIVE scumread at this juncture is Koba, whom I find to be an easy target.

This is up thru page 38 and I don't wanna lose this so posting now bbl bbz

Started skimming Johnny’s ISO and it looks like he drops townreads outside of readwall and is very scumreadesque in them. We probably would be able to rule of three some of this if Johnny is scum.

[MathBlade]

Won’t be on til late tonight but I like Shirou as town. I don’t really understand the context behind it as I haven’t caught up but it sounds logical. And yes I am townreading them for scumreading my slot and idgaf. And Menalque saying it’s only a few hours to sit and read when I have about an hour a day IRL right now that can be used to read recent posts or catch up is really really pissing me off. Keep in mind that is also for you it’s a few hours. I have a social map I try to keep in my head of where each person’s last push was and to do that it’s a slow slog. See you tonight people.

[MathBlade]

I haven’t caught up on the amount of posting since this am but oka says “hi and sorry and to BoP you”Not sure I agree, but there’s no way I can read all this over lunch. The last part after I townread Shirou they said they weren’t reading my posts. I don’t like this because it says one of a few things
A) They got coaching from he who doesn’t deserve to be named and are either town or scum who has been advised to not say anything.
Or
B) They are a naturally tunnelly player similar to me and once they get a read they get it and have to be sold otherwise and will do this as any alignment.

The short of it is I know they are wrong on their read of me but I don’t hold it as a town/scum alignment indicative.

I also scrolled the discord and nancy said Auro is less pockety. I generally tend to ignore this stuff as you’re playing with me but I cannot keep up with this speed.

Will check back on things after lunch and keep reading.

[MathBlade]

he who doesn’t deserve to be named

????

I don’t want to talk about ABR. It will turn the game toxic. So instead he’s Voldemort

[MathBlade]

B) They are a naturally tunnelly player similar to me and once they get a read they get it and have to be sold otherwise and will do this as any alignment.

I'm a notorious tunneler if it helps anyone read on me

look no further than the last team mafia, where I tunneled the same players for amazing 3 in-game days or so.

I don’t remember all of the games from last team mafia. I just remember the one I modded and the mod headaches we had sorry. I generally work from meta I know and from what I have since you’re playing with me. Nancy and oka were really insistent on that though and since I haven’t read that stuff I went with what they were saying since it’s a team game

Pedit: no I am saying that ABr would have told Firebringer to not touch my posts and Shirou did the same.

[MathBlade]

Apologies I did not think about how that sounded. My bad. No I would never accuse another player of cheating.

I do not know who Shirou is and nor do I want to know. I treat them by their game here

Just I have an extreme dislike of ABR for personal reasons

[MathBlade]

It is still very funny that you think that Shirou would listen to ABR on how to play scum

*shrug* Glad to provide humor for being offsite a year+ I guess?

Pedit: good on the no contact. I advise it stay that way.

[MathBlade]

Hey on a scale of 1 to 10 how good is Shirou’s scum play
1 being conf guilty
10 being my scum game
(I consider myself excellent scum shit town)

Multiple people are saying this in thread and I kinda wanna see just how good compared to me and then compare that to reads of me

Normally I wouldn’t but this seems relevant

[MathBlade]

It is still very funny that you think that Shirou would listen to ABR on how to play scum

*shrug* Glad to provide humor for being offsite a year+ I guess?

Pedit: good on the no contact. I advise it stay that way.

Oh, tbf Shirou is an alt so I guess you might not be aware of their identity

I don’t alt hunt so that’s a thing. So I am not aware of them or other players as tunnelly as myself which seems to be at first glance the level of tunnel Shirou has

[MathBlade]

And would scum!Shirou consider me a threat and want me gone early and therefore use the current game state to do that?

[MathBlade]

And why do you say that Scum!Shiro wouldn’t consider anyone a threat here?

A good scum identifies the biggest risk to them winning them game and tries to eliminate them ASAP.

I am an known/unknown player presenting an optimal strategy the majority of players have hopped on to.

Why would I not be a threat if this methodology continues and Shirou is forced to that?

[MathBlade]

I know this is approaching grey area, but as a sidenote, although I think it may be NAI, if I had to place between "Towny" vs "Scummy" to Math doing weird speculations, I would put it under scummy.

In a Mastina's modded large (I forgot the name but it had to do with Wolves), Math was scum that always speculated weird things which were objectively very hard to realistically take place. In the last days if I remember right his speculation was as weird as speculating wheter vampires were considered supernatural or not, or something similar.

I just remember it was strikingly weird assumptions that at the time I did doubt anyone would genuinely make.

I think that due to this one having different circumstances, it may not apply, especially also given it's been 2 years since that game, but still I would like to point that out?

That game I had RC up my but doing weird shit. A much better version of my scum play is Gistou or Heroes or the one linked in my signature. Generally if I am bad scum something causes it.

[MathBlade]

And why do you say that Scum!Shiro wouldn’t consider anyone a threat here?

A good scum identifies the biggest risk to them winning them game and tries to eliminate them ASAP.

I am an known/unknown player presenting an optimal strategy the majority of players have hopped on to.

Why would I not be a threat if this methodology continues and Shirou is forced to that?

Because if shiro is scum he's pocketed me and Menalque and has enough force of presence to completely wipe the game

<< And who is the dude paranoid of deep wolves? This guy.

[MathBlade]

Titus says (paraphrased) "He's toxic to his

teammates

everyone then wonders why

he always dies day 1 in most of his scumgames

no one wants to listen to him" (about ABR) lmao

ftfy

Can we not talk about the permabanned asshat? I said he who should not be named to avoid that.

[MathBlade]

the beauty of this game is we don’t actually need to find the deepwolf

That’s the problem. We eventually do.

Maybe not today but it’s good to keep in mind this potential.

Especially if we ever see two green in a row.

[MathBlade]

Mena you overestimate me...but thanks

I don’t think so, there’s few enough players that completely snowed (not just fooled but completely

snowed

) RC when he was playing and you did so in a p spectacular fashion

RC didn't know my scumrange had improved in that game to be fair, I think I would have a much harder time winning against him again.

I would genuinely very much dislike playing against town!RC again as scum because it just sounds very hard work if he doesn't tunnel a random person in D1/D2.

I honestly think I lose a round 2 against town!RC.

You’re very modest, which is one of the reasons why I like you

If he is scum I wanna take the dude out for a beer and share scum stories but liking him is independent of my read of him. I just feel like something is wrong and I can’t place it with Shirou. That generally happens with deep wolves.

[MathBlade]

That’s the problem. We eventually do.

No we don’t? If there’s a townbloc of 5 and there’s a deepwolf in it, that’s still winning for town provide we hit scum at some point from D1-3

Town block of 5 has two scum. Deep wolf won’t hit a buddy in the block

So you’ll get one scum in that mix in d1-3 but then it’s rgg or grg or rgg.

[MathBlade]

Fuck, even if we didn’t hit until D4 so long as there’s a max of 1 scum in the townbloc it’s still winning

It’s that Max of I am worried about. If Shirou is a deep wolf, townread their buddy and oh dear.

I kinda can see why Oka said to BoP Shirou now damn

[MathBlade]

Since we're talking about my scum game here...

I don't expect anyone to believe me I suppose, since my alignment is still not confirmed, but after game rest assured that whatever idea you had about my scum game before, it's significantly weaker now.

I simply don't have the same stamina to play mafia that I used to, I'm barely caught up here but I'm already quite tired/want to do something else, I don't have any particular motivation to tryhard as either town or scum as I used to before.

Scum play is less, say, frustrating than town since you know everyone alignment since the start, but it's much more exhausting than town if you're really trying to win, because as town you can just give up on town and say "it's not my fault if we lose this", but as scum you're much more responsible for your team's fate. There's much more responsibility in being scum than there is in being town, whether people shoulder that responsibility is another story.

I don't have even stamina enough for town play nowadays, completely rule out of the possibility I could spam as scum as much as I used to, because good scum play does require you to constantly talk, argue and pick fights against town to deceive them. It's just not in the range of what I can do today.

Look at my last scum game for example, I used a much more passive/weaker way of playing simply because I already didn't have enough stamina back then, and I've even less now.

Yeah...not going to do that. I am not even caught up on this game and you want me to hunt for a game that says your point? Not gonna happen.

[MathBlade]

Since we're talking about my scum game here...

I don't expect anyone to believe me I suppose, since my alignment is still not confirmed, but after game rest assured that whatever idea you had about my scum game before, it's significantly weaker now.

I simply don't have the same stamina to play mafia that I used to, I'm barely caught up here but I'm already quite tired/want to do something else, I don't have any particular motivation to tryhard as either town or scum as I used to before.

Scum play is less, say, frustrating than town since you know everyone alignment since the start, but it's much more exhausting than town if you're really trying to win, because as town you can just give up on town and say "it's not my fault if we lose this", but as scum you're much more responsible for your team's fate. There's much more responsibility in being scum than there is in being town, whether people shoulder that responsibility is another story.

I don't have even stamina enough for town play nowadays, completely rule out of the possibility I could spam as scum as much as I used to, because good scum play does require you to constantly talk, argue and pick fights against town to deceive them. It's just not in the range of what I can do today.

Look at my last scum game for example, I used a much more passive/weaker way of playing simply because I already didn't have enough stamina back then, and I've even less now.

Yeah...not going to do that. I am not even caught up on this game and you want me to hunt for a game that says your point? Not gonna happen.

no one asked anyone to go look at games

Are you reading? Shirou literally just asked me to look at their last scum game lol. Like wtf? Am I in gaslightville?

[MathBlade]

Look at my last scum game for example, I used a much more passive/weaker way of playing simply because I already didn't have enough stamina back then, and I've even less now.

^^ it’s literally right there.

Wtf

Lunch is over I gotta go but something stinks here

[MathBlade]

Hey just clocked out. Lots of pages about to catch up.

Any questions before I do?

[MathBlade]

Look at my last scum game for example, I used a much more passive/weaker way of playing simply because I already didn't have enough stamina back then, and I've even less now.

^^ it’s literally right there.

Wtf

Lunch is over I gotta go but something stinks here

He’s not asking for anyone to look at the game, he’s describing it and saying “here’s an example”?????

Check my last scum game it says X.

I would have to read the game to “check it” and it says X to verify this is true.

Like this isn’t hard.

I don’t get why people are saying Shirou didn’t say what he said.

Scum have to be pushing this. I do not understand how people are not reading this correctly.

[MathBlade]

This is effectively 6 v 2 v 1

I meant 7 v 2 v 1. Quick explanation that I can do a better job later:

Consider the playerlist w/ flips

chennisden -
JohnnyFarrar -
Flopz -
Auro -
Lilith2013 -
Infinity 324 -
Menalque
Joqiza
Shirou
Mathblade

We've 7 townies, 3 mafia, and 4 lims here to eliminate 1 mafia, and an extra 1 to eliminate the last one. We begin with 10 players to sort though, if we consider Lilith/Joqiza being town, it means we've 8 players effectively in the game to be sorted.

If Mena/AL aren't partners, since we can ignore one scum, it means we can ignore both of them, bringing the players to be sorted to 6.

Within the rest of the 6 players, if we can find only one more that is town to add to the block of Lilith/Joqiza, it means we would have only 5 players to sort.

If there's only 5 players to sort, Lilith/Joqiza/X player are all town, Mena/AL aren't partners, and we've 4 lims, it means it's an auto town-win.

Inside those 5 players, there should be 2 mafia, and with 4 eliminations we'll at least get one, and getting one mafia we get an extra elimination, which adds to a total of 5 lims, effectively auto-winning the game as long as our base assumptions are all right.

Therefore:

If Mena/AL aren't partners, and Lilith/Joqiza/Third Player are all town, we can't possibly lose the game by this route.

The unique way to lose it if our assumptions are right, is by limming one of Mena/AL and making it so that we've an extra player to sort + one less lim if we turn out to be wrong.

Did you just do a long winded, assume I am right therefore I am right?

I mean if you assume you’re right then ...you assume you’re right?

I don’t get this.

[MathBlade]

The unique way I win as scum here being left out of the block is if I'm planning to flip the table against the third player in the block in the last day.

Honestly, although it's a bit novel, I wouldn't place it outside of the realm of possibility for scum!me, but that would mean I'm planning to flip the tables on Chennis, which would mean we're not partnered.

The other unique way for me to win as scum here is if it's exactly Chennis + Me + one of Mena / AL.

Therefore this is either an town auto-win or auto-loss based on whether you think the team is exactly that / Lilith + Joqi is town / Mena/AL aren't partners.

I'm not gonna try to hide any of this stuff from you, there it is in the sun on all it's glory and I think it's the plan I want to put forward.

I don’t get this but I hope I get it when I get caught up overnight. It just looks like “assume I am right” then if I am right we win or lose? That’s called every possibility?

[MathBlade]

Wow, mathblade hates the idea of a townbloc without him in it despite strongly advocating for townblocs earlier

Who’da thunk it?

Uhm no, that’s not what I am saying at all.

I am saying Shirou is making a circular argument

It’s a circular argument.

If I assume my phone is turned on therefore I have access to the internet, then say because I am posting on access to mafia scum therefore I have access to my phone. I have gone in a circle

Shirou has said if I assume that my townreads are right then we win, you’ve assumed what you’re trying to prove.

[MathBlade]

To be completely honest, I'm sus of the plan because it comes from shirou, but the logic looks solid.

Explain it like I am 5.

From what I see Shirou has deemed A,B,C,D,E town

If we elim outside of that group we hit scum

Uhm of course that’s true by your assumptions?

[MathBlade]

Shirou has said if I assume that my townreads are right then we win, you’ve assumed what you’re trying to prove.

In that case you need to talk about:

Why Lilith / Joqi aren't town.

Why AL / Mena are partners

If you do think they are town at the moment but may change your mind later, it's still to our benefit to follow this plan.

Therefore, give us reasoning why you don't believe in Lilith / Joqi town, or why you think AL / Mena are scum together when all their interactions in the game in my opinion point otherwise.

I don’t think you’re seeing my point either. You could randomize those names to be ANY player pairing and I would have an issue because you’re assuming a ton of reads to get there.

As for the specific cases I would prefer to see which would be wrong if any after I caught up. If I have to pick a case wrong off the top of my head it would be AL + Mena partners because of AL never being miselimmed.

[MathBlade]

Math, the fact you're instantly trying to go for "AL + Mena" are partners yeah don't make your slot look good at all.

I need to check your ISO later but I doubt you had anything close to that opinion before, and I don't think you had doubt about Joqi/Lilith either likely. Even if you did, I still don't like you trying to shut down the plan by saying "but you can be wrong!!!" instead of firstly properly understanding the plan, seeing if it lines up with your reads, and if yes/not proceed to give your feedback.

You've instantly gone to the route of "shutdown the plan".

I asked to be explained the plan. You said you did.

I found an issue with the plan that I had trouble understanding.

I could literally swap this with anyone. I am not trying to shut down you’re plan I am asking you to either explain how that list is different from just randomly picking names and explain how you got there.

Right now my reads are to be bluntly honest in a state of flux right now, none of the discord agrees on anything so that’s patently useless and so I am more just reacting to what’s here and this is the kind of shit deep wolves pull.

[MathBlade]

Your plan*

[MathBlade]

I could literally swap this with anyone. I am not trying to shut down you’re plan I am asking you to either explain how that list is different from just randomly picking names and explain how you got there.

You need to make assumptions in this game either way

For you to vote someone, you need to assume that they're the least towny person in the playerlist (The PoE), and for you to make town reads, you need to assume that the person is town (Lilith/Joqi), and to make associative reads, you need to assume what looks like partner/anti-partner interaction (Menalque / AL).

You're essentially telling me that in a game of assumption, where you're constantly assuming things, it's dangerous, suboptimal or wrong to assume things to solve the game in a more efficient way.

I can't help but feel your argument is silly Math.

Okay now I get how I am an idiot.......

Excuse the idiot while he just goes somewhere and facepalms repeatedly.

Derp

[MathBlade]

What I would like to see discussion about, is if everyone agree on those reads, because it doesn't matter the names, we're still in the same situation:

1) If we can have 3 consensus town reads

2) If we can have a pair of 2 that aren't scum together

We essentially auto-win the game.

I would like to hold off on this until tomorrow when I am caught up.

[MathBlade]

I am about post 1100 in my catchup got to the part when Koba was telling super he rage quit last and then just sorta checked out mentally. I expected to have more time to catch up but had a work emergency.

Super felt scummy but Joqiza doesn’t. So kinda torn. Feels like I am reading two different games.

[MathBlade]

chen I keep listening to that audio clip trying to figure out what the last part is but I can't understand it lmao

What audio clip?

Generally we don’t have sound on the forums.

[MathBlade]

I'm actually a bit surprised on everyone reactions.

I thought there was a chance everyone would come to the same conclusions but I'll try to explain my line of thought here.

Would love that. Brain feels like cottage cheese.

[MathBlade]

We've 5 players present at the moment counting me, therefore it's enough for an execution, so if possible/no one needs to do anything else, I would like for you to be online for the next 10 ~ 15 minutes or so, since I'll make a proposition.

I suppose we can call this night meeting a brief Round Table. For what it's worth, I think all online players at the moment are more likely town than not.

Sure but I am close to falling asleep here so let’s try to make it fast and if I do apologies.

[MathBlade]

I suppose I'll begin by my thesis on this game at the moment:

As long as we're not in a distorted/dark timeline where one of the following happened/is factual:

1) Lilith / Joqi being scum together or with one of Chennis / Mena / AL

2) Mena / AL being partners that bussed even though Johnny wagon was up so they couldn't afford a buss

3) Johnny being insistent on one of his partners being obvtown (DK)

This game should end at maximum in the next 2 eliminations, which are respectively Auro/Flopz, where there should be at least one scum, if it isn't exactly the remaining scum team in the game.

At the risk of sounding incredibly dumb, I am the DK slot. If you think I am partners with Johnny wouldn’t you elim me to end the game? I don’t see how you get from paragraph 3 to 4.

[MathBlade]

I would kinda rather do Flopz of those options. Flopz was pinging me something fierce. Aero never really pinged me.

Any objections to Flopz?

[MathBlade]

VOTE: Flopz

[MathBlade]

I will check it later. Going to go to bed. Kinda at my limit atm for words.

[MathBlade]

Oh yay! 10 hours 10 pages. No I haven’t read and no you probably haven’t read in-depth either it’s probably just rapid fire and not thinking. Any quick questions before I get ready for work?

[MathBlade]

Oh yay! 10 hours 10 pages. No I haven’t read and no you probably haven’t read in-depth either it’s probably just rapid fire and not thinking. Any quick questions before I get ready for work?

I'm blocking people off voting you for the next 2 days, when you're arguably relatively easy miselimination compared to other options.

Would you be up to in response, write off voting me for the next 2 days?

I generally don’t write off voting anyone but I would give it extreme weight. Promising is how you end up in a nice curly pocket.

[MathBlade]

Oh and happy scum day Shirou.

[MathBlade]

Vote Count

Auro - 2

(Shirou, Lilith2013)

Flopz - 1

(Mathblade)

Mathblade - 1

(Menalque)

Not Voting - 5

(Auro, Autumn Leaves, chennisden, Flopz, Joqiza)

Activity Check - Start of Day

With 9 alive, it takes 5 to remove politely

Deadline: (expired on 2021-02-10 21:00:00)

Doesn’t seem like you’re blocking people voting me?

[MathBlade]

Fair enough. Just seemed like a weird reaction test or something. It didn’t jive with what I had.

Why do you think people are so willing to sheep you?

[MathBlade]

Then don’t hold on it?

I don’t vote someone based on pages I haven’t read and I am voting in your PoE.

I said I wouldn’t consider voting you that doesn’t mean I sheep you. I have no bloody clue who you think you are to throw this weight around like “I am soooo important sheep me or I have people vote you” especially when they are doing it anyway.

It reads like an empty threat versus actually believing Auro is scum and that you can make a case for it and then when Auro flips town you hope people forget that grandstand as people are loathe to do.

So I am going to work. Your “threat” feels like it’s a snowball in hell.

[MathBlade]

I was planning to do something much more elaborated if Math had agreed to write me off in the next 2 days, which would force an interesting dynamic in the game, but I'm not going to sit here and keep making redundant arguments.

If scum isn't in Auro/Flopz/Math I'm giving them what they want but I do believe that the probability of that is very low.

Oh no. If I had agreed I woulda been scum.

What scum wouldn’t have wanted a loud town not voting them for two days?

[MathBlade]

That’s how I normally hide as scum.

No way math could be scum, who is his partner?

Requiring a solve when we only need one to win is silly.

[MathBlade]

That’s how I normally hide as scum.

No way math could be scum, who is his partner?

Requiring a solve when we only need one to win is silly.

we’re not requiring a solve, auro’s arguments just make 0 sense

Wouldn’t that make Auro town though? I mean if he was scum and told something didn’t make sense he’d swap it right?

[MathBlade]

His reasoning makes no sense if he’s town

I’ll take the liberty of quoting myself for a TLDR of how I feel about auro

Spoiler:

again, it matters to me. I don't think your reasons for scumreading me are real; I think your intentions towards my slot since the beginning of D1 have been mostly to try to prevent me from being townread; I think your argument against shirou's proposed plan is distorted because you are trying to argue that the plan is contingent on infinity being scum and voicing your disagreement of it, but his alignment just does not matter because he's not on the table, and that if you were actually scumreading me you would be trying to convince others why this plan will not work and the reason would be because

I

am scum, and not that infinity

isn't

; I think what you're trying to argue is so mismatched to what shirou is actually saying because you're scum; and you seem more interested in trying to put me on the table for elimination in future days than actually discussing whether the plan will work.

if we go back to D1, I think it's suspicious that you would try to prevent townreads on me at multiple points without saying that you think I'm scummy, or without a qualification like "well the method of reading her isn't really valid but I think she's town anyway," which makes me think that the sole or primary purpose of you bringing up those things was to discredit and prevent me from being townread, not to make sure that I was being sorted correctly. This is what I mean by "you haven't expressed your own read at me while you were doing it."

This is a bit of a tertiary point but I’ve felt all game that your posts have been like, “surface level towny” but I think I struggle to really see the genuine thoughts behind them. I’ve held off on mentioning this because I haven’t had the chance to compile a set of posts that I think demonstrates my feelings, but I already vaguely referenced this as a reason that I thought you had a decent chance of flipping scum.

If you think AL is town and I’m the only objectionable player in the current bloc in shirou’s plan, I don’t think it actually even matters, because you wouldn’t need to eliminate scum!me to win if you’re able to find my partner. So: who’s my partner, auro?

Speaking as a moonlogicker and no I didn’t read all that, that would make him town. If something doesn’t make sense for town!Auro it likely doesn’t make sense for scum!Auro either which means it’s likely town!Auro

[MathBlade]

Scum have to avoid being elimmed.

If you’re able and wanting to elim someone immediately it’s probably TWTBAW

[MathBlade]

That’s how I normally hide as scum.

No way math could be scum, who is his partner?

Requiring a solve when we only need one to win is silly.

It's precisely because you only need one scum to win that you entertain multiple solves here

if you think X/Y team is possible, and so is Z/Y, you go for player Y here for higher odds of victory.

entertaining multiple teams and what are the keystone slots is the correct play in this gamestate rather than just sticking your guns to an one-sided read.

But it’s not about odds of dice it’s about what’s right.

If you are 75% sure X is scum even if no partner is known and 60% sure of any combination still do the 75% mafia much as I love math is not always an odds game

[MathBlade]

intent to hammer after work

[MathBlade]

Haven’t read. J wants 24 hours, Auro can’t be hammered. I will check tomorrow after lunch/work. Later.

[MathBlade]

Sorry to my team.

I sucked and was not up to my usual self.

I hope at least the coaching went well for future games.

[MathBlade]

gg, thanks for modding T-Bone, can we have scum pt pls

I am okay with releasing it when it won’t impact things.

Again gg everyone.

[MathBlade]

Hey please don’t tear infinity up too bad.

I was trying to make her look bad some because trying to find somewhere to elim.

I think she did pretty good.

Menalque really deserves MVP though.

[MathBlade]

Proud to have had you as a buddy Auro!

10/10 would scum again with you!

[MathBlade]

Menalque really deserves MVP though.

Not sure if (hopefully friendly) sarcasm but if not then both thank you but also I disagree and think Shirou is much more deserving of that title

It’s not sarcastic it’s serious.

Very few people get me off my game early like you did.

I usually can just tell the truth about the setup and still tell the truth about what people want to hear and not get read as scum.

You and the other V replacement name eludes me are very good players.

Granted I was not at the top of my game because reasons but you seriously deserve mvp.

[MathBlade]

Oh nope Shirou my bad memory sucks

[MathBlade]

@mathblade well uh, that’s really nice of you thanks! All credit should also be due to LLD who really helped me feeling confident in it by strongly backing the SR on you once she’d ISO’d

Yeah I was afraid because LLD is on your team and she literally scumreads me for type rate whether I am town or scum. I have a job it slowed down so she was going scumread me.

Don’t get me wrong I was scum and it’s right but LLD tends to scumread me way too much.

[MathBlade]

You did a really good job of containment though Towns don’t do that enough.

[MathBlade]

Hey just as a trigger warning when he who was evil did bad shit in another game it affected me here slightly as I am trans so reactions to that are in the PT in case that triggers anyone. It’s not a knock on anyone in this game just a trigger warning. I still think y’all did really good in catching me and Johnny and Auro and clean sweeping.