Mini Normal 2207 | The End

[Iconeum]

ico can be scum with georhe but probably isn't scum with Anya
I'd be quite surprised if datisi and Luca are scum together and I independently kinda think datisi is weakly more likely to be town

yep solid read

i'm helping derail anya flip in order to get some bus driving credit on gorge

[Iconeum]

i should be fairly obvtown at this point so ehhhhhh

??

[Iconeum]

I wonder what will gerain say nie after scum elimination Day 1.

-we got lucky kek

[Iconeum]

George, Icon, gypyx would be my guess for the team rn

Yeah sounds like a good PoE.
I’m not super convinced VP is cleared but i can lean town on them for now.

Ico, care to explain why this flip makes you town? I could maybe entertain that kind of argument but it depends a lot on the way it’s presented for me.

well it's self-meta for a large part
i don't really like self meta but that doesn't mean it's not true

scum!me doesn't kill datisi, at least not night 1
scum!me has no need to switch to GB in the first place, while there were alternative routes available
i coulda entertained wooper and his Not_Mafia idea
i coulda kept pushing anya
bussing there because??

[Iconeum]

scum!me kills wooper because??

[Iconeum]

i'd like to see an explanation from VP why any of the deaths make sense for scum!ico thx

[Iconeum]

town!datisi is literally an asset to scum!iconeum barring full blown scumread on me

[Iconeum]

scum!me kills wooper because??

Because he thought you and George were partners?

so

i help town kill my partner
and then i kill the town who already connected me to scum!george

that is your theory?

[Iconeum]

And whoever the other partner is would have a say in the NK as well

fair

[Iconeum]

In terms of the NK, Datisi was the obvious choice, and Datisi wasn’t townreading Icon at all so I don’t see why Icon couldn’t have made that kill

this is false
reading back thru datisi iso, i think he would be near locktown at this point after scum flip

[Iconeum]

and you scumread/shade me for it?

i'm only shading you if anya/george are t/t

if they're t/s i think that makes you very solidly town

scumconeum wouldn't be sitting on his ass doing nothing if there was a town and a scumbuddy wagon competing near deadline, how ks that a bad take?!?!?!?

these would indicate datisi townreading me after seeing GB flip red

[Iconeum]

*near locktown reading me

lol

[Iconeum]

first reaction tells me any of IV/Luca/VP - like i said i value killing high threat level players and datisi, imo, only potentially becomes scary as the game goes on
i could even think about Wooper honestly - that creature scares me - but i don't feel he's into the game enough to be of much concern yet to scum!me

[Iconeum]

I'm the vig

ok

who'd you shoot

[Iconeum]

glad you all finally listened to me shouting about how george was obvious wolf

[Iconeum]

VOTE: anya

also i pulled an allnighter and that's been forever and i'm at work and if i'm slow to respond whatever

Interesting how Icon chose the Anya wagon over the George wagon here, which made the VC look like this:

Vote Count 1.12

Anya

(4) -> Datisi, Luca Blight, VP Baltar, Iconeum [E-3]

GeorgeBailey

(3) -> Wooper, Gypyx, NorwegianboyEE

AliceK

(2) -> innocentvillager, geraintm

Gypyx

(1) -> GeorgeBailey

Iconeum

(1) -> Anya

Not_Mafia

(1) -> Not_Mafia

innocentvillager

(1) -> AliceK

With 13 alive it takes 7 to eliminate

Day ends in (expired on 2021-04-24 18:32:00)

seeing that votecount i'd do it again

[Iconeum]

VOTE: GB

anya's recent posting is someting she can hopefully keep up
GB is just blatantly stalling at this point, doing jack shit. If this is town, then it's not a bad yeet anyway

If I had time i'd probably push Luca here while hiding behind wooper, but weekend vla is soonish and deadline etc

I'll take that fight tomorrow if there's a chance

Icon makes this vote after both Wooper and I have stated a TR on Anya, meaning he probably realizes it’s bus or bust at this point

Also Icon, what did you mean by

‘I’d probably push Luca here while hiding behind Wooper

’?

there were options for scum!me to *do things* actively and steer away from a bus
could do myself, could hide behind others who wanted to *do things* like Wooper for instance

[Iconeum]

instead you assume scum!me just sits by watching everything go to shit until eventually i have no choice but to bus?

i'm not saying i'm a scum mastermind, but i can hold my own a little more than what ur saying here

datisi knew, and also pointed that out IIRC

[Iconeum]

This almost seems like something that was meant for the scum pt

jezus fuck dude give me a break lol

no

that was not meant for any thread outside of this one

[Iconeum]

you just keep looking and looking and looking and for every point i manage to counter you just try to find new ones

[Iconeum]

So far all Icon has done today is say why he's not scum

I'd like to see some actual reads/thoughts soon

yeah gee i wonder how that's possible

maybe if you didn't spend every single post you make pushing me around i wouldn't feel the need to keep defending myself?

who knows really

[Iconeum]

-luca: relentlessy pushes ico

-ico: defends himself

-also luca: omg ico ur so defensive

fuckkkkkkk

[Iconeum]

like

if this town is incapable of townreading me might as well just yeet me and get it over with

[Iconeum]

at this point i'm feeling like i'd legit be more happy in the dead thread then i here

[Iconeum]

ico u have literally used the exact "scum!me wouldn't NK town!datisi here bc x, y, z" wifom before as scum

so why should i believe any of what you're saying here on Datisi's death

you can believe whatever you want

if you think i'm scum you vote me

if you think i'm town you don't

i've spent nothing but time defending myself today and i'm being forced in defending myself in a way that will only look more and more scummy as time goes on, which will do nothing for me either way

[Iconeum]

Going to give my full take on the game because I think things have actually sorted somewhat clearly at this point already.

Town:

Not_Mafia

- hearing no counter to his vig shot, seems to be town. (There's no way a normal would put an extra killing scum's hands for a night would it?)

Geraintm

- his informed role about a strongman seems legit considering town had a roleblocker. He's either gutsy af scum, or just plain town.

Norwegian

- His push on George D1 seems pretty legit to me after I reviewed it. Could have been a preplanned bus, but I didn't get that vibe from his posting.

Luca

- He seems to be solving today. I'm not sure on the actual reasons people are saying they suspect him other than

~hand waving~

meta.

Who the heck knows:

Anya

- lol, I mean whatever. Probably town, but I've got no clue.

AliceK

- Really haven't seen any substance here yet.

All the scum are likely in this pile:

innocent villager

- Not sure if it's just style clashing here, but I didn't like his waffling on Anya and George yesterday, or his kind of overstating his importance today. IDK. Something about him is just pinging me weird. I could be wrong here though.

Gypyx

- Lots of unexplained reads throughout the game, and doesn't seem to have a clear viewpoint on the game. Not looking great. Kind of camped on George without hard pushing it.

Iconeum

- Already stated why I think this is scum.

your NM townread is meh. his claim forces it, and is actually a gift here
geraint remains town, even tho i'd just *want* to scumread him ya feel - nothing special
same goes for norwegian, i doubt he's bussing that strong on day 1 but what do i know
luca is definitely in the wrong spot. maybe i'm biased, but i strongly feel he needs me dead here for reasons that go beyond just scumreading me
that you have anya as a nullread is fine, but aliceK should be scummier? Anya is doing things *her* way and kinda picked up after pressure yesterday
aliceK seems to be actively avoiding contributing anything, but i should need to reread ISO because i cant really remember much about this slot
i don't like the IV scumread, i think he's town. Switch with luca. He feels more solvey in any case. Less agenda-y
Gypyx goes higher as well - imo. Why? I don't really know. I don't scumread him. His posts don't feel forced.

[Iconeum]

If Iconeum or Gypyx don't flip scum, I feel like it's almost got to be IV and one of Anya/AliceK.

Norwegian could be wolfing, but that seems like a "break glass" kind of emergency consideration. I think the above breakdown is a pretty solid path to town victory with zero PR help.

i didn't realllly particularly like your slot, but our reads aren't very far apart
luca / IV are the main problems there

[Iconeum]

Ico what do you think about Baltars reads?

wellll

[Iconeum]

Do you disagree you shouldn't be PoE here? I don't feel like you've been very townie, and instead of focusing on how town u are by meta (which was already said to be something you tend to do as scum anyway?) why not tell us who the scum are if it's not you?

it's one of those moments where i just dont really expect to be scumread after day 1 and night 1 events, and the pressure on me today kinda caught me off guard and is actually annoying me to a point where i seem to be losing focus

i *am* trying to make something right now, we'll see i guess

[Iconeum]

Your read on Gypyx too would be appreciated.

it's a gut gut gut read, but not a scum gut read

[Iconeum]

-luca: relentlessy pushes ico

-ico: defends himself

-also luca: omg ico ur so defensive

fuckkkkkkk

ico feels really defensive in this post

yeah i wonder how that's possible

only scum are defensive when under pressure, right?

[Iconeum]

ico seems a lot more focused on defending himself than actually finding wolves so we probably got him time to slay the dragon

you can go [REDACTED][REDACTED][REDACTED][REDACTED][REDACTED][REDACTED][REDACTED][REDACTED][REDACTED][REDACTED][REDACTED] right now

[Iconeum]

Icon, do you scumread me purely because I SR you?

saying that i'm not triggered by it would be a lie

[Iconeum]

like, every time you bring something new up and i try and refute it you just move on to the next point and i'm like

is luca actually trying to get a read on me or just convince others i'm scum or i don't fucking know.

it feels off

If you were trying to get a read on me, you'd be handling it differently? Which means you are either hard convinced i'm scum, and then you should/would be selling your case to others and just ignore my posting.
Or actually trying to get a read on me but then I feel ur being… what is the word here
ingenuine?

so yeah

[Iconeum]

no

[Iconeum]

like i said

i feel i'm completely out of touch since D2 and every time i log in i just see more and more posts where i have to defend myself and it kinda sucked up all my attention and yeah i've done nothing more then that today

it's true

i'm sitting here asking myself yeah what are my reads rn?
answering VP's read list did help out actually

[Iconeum]

Most of your ‘refuting’ has just been wifoming which doesn’t exactly do much for me

i don't really have anything else to offer

[Iconeum]

likely? i guess?

i hate bussing in general, and my last scumgame is like the first game i've ever bussed in my life. And that was because he bussed me first and i was salty lol

but in this case, GB doesn't really provide much to the scumteam, so i can understand they'd buss him yeah

[Iconeum]

Considering that not-mafia is the one person i am strongly town reading now (due to claim) they would be the person i would be following with their votes, i wish they were being more active.

ur gonna have a bad time if you think that a strong townread has to be correct in their reads just because you think they are town

[Iconeum]

Datisi, what are your final thoughts?

jesus why is this so ominous

also i have already given my reads, and frankly i don't have too much faith in them anyway so

surely this was a coincidence, right luca?

[Iconeum]

One more point I want to add:

scum!Icon would have very good reason to kill town!Datisi given Icon just today beat Datisi as scum, meaning Datisi would be a lot warier of Icon and less trusting given that wound is so fresh

take your shade and shove it

you've done nothing but try to scumspew me all day

datisi literally said he would have a solid townread on me after seeing GB flip scum so trying to paint that i benefit from a datisi kill is just either a terrible take or scum shading me

[Iconeum]

VOTE: luca

[Iconeum]

you've literally JUST seen scum me in action

you've literally JUST seen how i try to take control of a town as scum

you've literally JUST seen how i do NOT kill datisi until late in the game as scum

and you try to sell this is my scumgame????????

no way ur this dense as town

[Iconeum]

I love how Icon dives deep to try and find dirt on me as he's unable to explain the mess that is 1748 lol

ofcourse it's a mess

the entire EoD was a mess

what's scummy about it?

[Iconeum]

i don't care luca

with NM as vig i'm actually gonna rest easy that if you get my yeet through, ur following me straight to the dead pt lol

[Iconeum]

if anyone outside of luca wishes to interact with me and get explanations for anything, talk to me

[Iconeum]

that shade was specifically done to copy and try to make you feel how i'm feeling with what ur throwing at me

[Iconeum]

Not to mention the informed role

That’s a good point actually and supports my theory that gypyx was probably crumbing his scum pr role

i have no idea how you are coming to your conclusions this game

i literally cannot grasp it

[Iconeum]

yeah it's so strange that i go omgus right

[Iconeum]

#Town!Ico.never.does.that.

[Iconeum]

whatever

if this town needs my yeet to move on go for it

[Iconeum]

i'm not contributing much anyway

[Iconeum]

i'm vt

yeet away

vig luca

final scum probably someone like anya who's just coasting

[Iconeum]

i don't think it's someone like IV or gyp, norwee i don't know

[Iconeum]

AliceK also very much an option

just copying popular reads

[Iconeum]

I don't know about VP

they're never an easy read for me

[Iconeum]

Official Vote Count

Iconeum

(4): VP Baltar, innocentvillager, Anya, Luca Blight

innocentvillager

(2): Gypyx, geraintm

Gypyx

(2): NorwegianboyEE, AliceK

Luca Blight

(1): Iconeum

Not Voting

(1): Not_Mafia

With 10 alive, it takes 6 to eliminate.

Deadline

: (expired on 2021-05-03 10:38:00)

Please note that the color

#800080

and all similar shades are considered off limits from now on.

not sure if both scum really push my yeet here?

luca/anya contains scum
aliceK keeps hands clean from my wagon, it's possible
maybe i'm wrong about gyp, but my defensive gut feeling is telling me this is town

[Iconeum]

i don't think you've talked a single word about me this day, and maybe even yesterday

with the exception of how i'm in your solve together with gyp IIRC

so what exactly do you wanna do?

[Iconeum]

Yeah, I don't have a strong opinion on Anya.

Ico is 100% Town or Has a dumb agenda

Alice, thoughts on Icon?

Hard question. I still think he is town. EoD could definitely come from Ico! Town and I am just townreading his film day 1.

Imo 1-2 scums in {gypex, Ico, iv}. Could be that there is a deepwolf somewhere, but that's something to focus in p5/p3

quickly went through your iso to see your reads progression on me

yeah

maybe even vig this over luca lol

[Iconeum]

you had me as hard town day 1
solid town on day 2

and when everyone and their mothers started townreading me your reads changed to the 'popular' agenda without a single word of explanation how i went from hard town to being in your final solve

[Iconeum]

i'll admit that my scumread on luca is probably more salt then anything else
a big part is that i think it should be more Obvious to him that this isn't my scumgame, especially considering we *just* got out of a game where he saw scum!me in action
his push feels off, but that could be me omgus'ing

Alice here actually has a terrible reads progression so look into this

[Iconeum]

oh trust me i feel different too lol
low energy yeah - tho i maintain that is NAI for me - i can dig up scum and town games so meh

drawing scum multiples times in a row doesn't really mean much, i love playing scumgames but again that is my word against meta and wifom so meh

i also realize my play *is* lacking and I feel I haven't really contributed enough to justify screaming 'WHY ISN'T EVERYONE TOWNREADING ME AT THIS POINT', but there is scum in my wagon i fucking guarantee it
but maybe i'm mistaken that it's not the loudest player on my wagon who is scum

in my head it's so Obvious why i switched to george, i wish i could explain it better

[Iconeum]

it might be Ico and Alice actually and Ico is trying to put some crime scene tape between them on his way out

like he didn't even vote for Alice here and it would explain Alice's flip she wants to hop on for that sweet backseat view on the bus

why would i vote for alice i'm literally just waiting to be hammered

if there is a realistic way that alice gets flipped instead of me then by all means

VOTE: alice

[Iconeum]

Icon maybe you can try and put your gypyx tr into words. I know you said it’s a gut read, but surely there’s something you can point to that leads you to Tr him? Because this is a big problem for me rn

Fypov consider that gypyx is coasting here knowing that an icon green flip reflects well on him tomorrow

it's the absolute lack of a scumread?

what is scum!gyp doing? i don't see it
he has takes that i like a lot, and posts that i agree with
him siding with me despite being put at the stake with the torch at my feet is at best white knighting? if you think that is s/s play i just don't know what to tell you

[Iconeum]

everyone going on about his 'crumb', which i just read as 1 giant meme is being scumread for ?? reasons

everything just seems to be used to pressure me or gyp, and bind us together
i really don't think he's scum

[Iconeum]

actually hmmmm

given the claim, there's a possibility for it being ico + gera

not really stuff i'd bank on, just higher odds

please

tell me more

ongoing game kinda

will explain when time comes

why does scum!gyp refer to an ongoing game to explain something? with the game over, i know he was watching my scum play in action so maybe he saw something

why does scum!gyp set up a scumread on me to later backpedal when heat turns up and i'm actually a viable misflip? he literally has every opportunity to get me here and have a justified vote on me

but instead he doubles down on defending me?

[Iconeum]

Scum!gypyx is coasting and has been since the start

not really? i'm going thru his ISO and there's stuff with datisi/me/geraint at the very least

[Iconeum]

Icon, you should be asking why does Town!gypyx townread you here

this has me blinking my eyes

[Iconeum]

i have a reason i think of in my head but do you want me to tell you or ask gyp first?

[Iconeum]

Gypyx's whole read on villager being wolf relies on a joke villager made

IIRC that is a big misrep

ur just cherrypicking here

[Iconeum]

Gypyx can you at least try to give any thoughts on Alice i'm begging you here

not just gypyx

[Iconeum]

no they're blue berries actually

both are icky

[Iconeum]

luca how do you feel about that alice progression on my slot that i pointed out?

[Iconeum]

i really don't wanna keep playing this card but like

luca

you *just* played a game with scum!me
i was under a TON of pressure day 1

did i respond so badly there?
i'm not saying you should townread me for it but using it as a means to scumread me is just wrong

*pedit
reallly? i think i was super agressive, not defensive?

[Iconeum]

plus the context was different, like, he didn't even come close to being pushed in that one

not really true, i got pretty far run up day 1 IIRC

[Iconeum]

lack of input is meh, i think i had an okay day 1
day 2 is *reasons* and being pushed around and scumread by literally everyone plus as you said a lack of energy (even my hyperposting isn't really here)

my george vote… eh? like in short IIRC anya got pushed, and started responding and actually feeling like doing something and GB was still doing jack shit and i was fine with either lim at that point, with anya stepping up a little i didn't really care

omgus against you
yeah
whatever

[Iconeum]

in what world is omgus scum!indicative

ever

[Iconeum]

not because you suspect me

the way you handled the push on me, how you went to one point, see me reply, ignore response, move to next point and repeat

but yeah, there was definitely some omgus

[Iconeum]

i haven't pushed alice - they just went from hard townreading me to seeing gamestate turn on me and jumping aboard

you pushed me, and during the interaction i started scumreading you

surely you see the huge difference here??

also you pushed me waaayyyy before i voted you and all of this is again giving me bad vibes about you

[Iconeum]

how can you even compare alice in this story??

[Iconeum]

maybe town!you really thinks that my omgus on you is scum!indicative and that that progression means i'm scum

but alice literally had no progression

nothing

how do you compare those even?

[Iconeum]

The difference I see is that Alice's behavior is a lot more indicative of scum than mine?

absolutely

that's the conclusion i'm coming to here since posting this morning

[Iconeum]

Icon, thoughts on gypyx's scumread on IV?

i've not spent time on this

[Iconeum]

then it's up to Gyp to give a proper summary and he should be pressured into giving one

[Iconeum]

ngl when you were pushing me earlier i also had the feeling you didn't really care for what i had to say

i do not have that feeling right now tho

[Iconeum]

why as scum wouldn't i just let town!anya die it makes ZERO sense to me

im not great at scum but im not a fucking idiot

why do you get to make this argument but i don't?

[Iconeum]

there's probably scum in {Alice, Ico} for that weird exchange between them though. i feel like Ico weirdly moving into Alice's PoE is weird but im not sure if that should implicate Alice or if it's just a convenient push by scum!ico

then push alice with me and let's find out

[Iconeum]

I am not sure why you think my read transition on Ico is weird. It's actually very simple. I was townreading Ico, because of his early paranoid tone (slightly for that) and because he looked very committed to my elimination (mainly for that). I just couldn't see why would scum do it. You quick-hammer a town member it draws a lot of attention to yourself which as scum you would like to avoid. There was no one else in imminent danger, so it wasn't protecting a scumbuddy. Just doesn't stick to scumagenda to do so.

Now GB's wagon. The problem of scums in these kind of situations is hesitation of what to do. I can see Town doing one of 2 things: hard committing to one of the wagons (doesn't matter which) or just ignore it. Iconeum was a third type: interested in voting someone, but not sure who (he was considering GB and Anya, but didn't vote any of them). I am actually not buying it. He was probably waiting for opportunity to save GB. Maybe waiting for GB to claim PR.

2nd point >>> 1 point, that's why I am scumreading Ico now

only ur completely wrong/lying about the part that I didn't vote any of GB/anya
and if your story is that i wanted to save GB, why did I end up putting him over the edge instead of hard committing to anya?

unless you think the scumteam is exactly the 3 of us?

[Iconeum]

like

you scumread me for 'being interested in voting someone without voting', which is just a false statement
you'd townread me if i hard committed to a wagon? So why weren't you townreading me for my committment to the anya wagon?

i only switched near the end IIRC

[Iconeum]

weekend vla

is near

[Iconeum]

i'm fairly sure alice flips scum here

i forgot about alice day 1 where i already had suspicion about their nice and shaved readslist, where i felt they were just making that checknote thing

and now the readflip on me based on stuff that didn't happen, while remaining on the background

[Iconeum]

VOTE: innocentvillager

I will land my vote here. He is overfocused on Datisi ignoring everything around him. It looks forced. Could it be that he is trying to avoid interactions with other players, because he doesn't feel comfortable in interactions with scum buddies.

Yeah, I don't have a strong opinion on Anya.

Ico is 100% Town or Has a dumb agenda

Anya's wagon can be pure. I actually missed a lot of content I will check her iso later. I just need to motivate myself to do sth

In Anya/George I think George is Mafia. Anya's initial posts feel like are coming from Town.

alice never moved their vote from IV, which was an early vote anyway
a little fencesitting around the competing wagons at EoD, without contributing much on either

comes into today with a full reverse read on me, without the reasons for townreading me in the first place changing and apparently making up the reasons that point towards scum!me

[Iconeum]

If George played a simple plan this is likely his partner.
VOTE: Gypyx

I would say VP, N_M and NorwegianBoy are Sage today. I think IV is sus, maybe I will find something interesting on eod.

Finally IV, has a similar eod to Ico, but after hammer he made few weird posts which I can't interpret which alignment it can be, so I would say he is slightly scummy.

Town members I have right now are Not_Mafia, NorwegianBoy, gerain, Luca, VP. No idea on Anya.

throughout Day 2 maintains a shadey read on IV, while if they were really scumreading IV like on day 1 i'd imagine town!alice to be happy about the pressure being put on IV and jumping on it or at least having a word in the discussion?

[Iconeum]

You're saying scum doesn't get offended by that? 'cause i disagree

Nah, I agree with IV. A scummy response would have been to push someone to prove them wrong.

well, it's basically that i think scum is less likely to wanna like, openly make things easier for a quickhammer you see?

Why is that? Usually the blame is shifted to the person who hammered anyways. It seems beneficial to makes things easier for a quickhammer...?



Well, I think VP/Norwee/Gera are town.

Datisi/Iconeum are like, constantly going at each other, I honestly think Datisi looks the best there, since it's the norm for N_M to quickhammer, and Geraint says he's quickhammering when he can lol.

N_M did the N_M introduction.


IV i'm very unsure on, Alice seems like LHF. Anya is null too.

I have some tinfoil hat theory on Luca, based off a previous game.

VOTE: Gypyx

unlikely to be scum theatre imo
but i'm not that good so i can be wrong
still, it's my opinion

[Iconeum]

Aw, well at least i can delete this mess of a readslist. If I posted it i'd probably be hammered anyways.

It was just a consolidation vote on AliceK.

post-hammer distancing post?

[Iconeum]

Why do you think it's unlikely? because it struck me as likely scum theatre even before george's flip

because it lacks a reason to do so

[Iconeum]

maybe good scum players that are into a game can do some distancing theatre early on, but GB was anything but into this game and i doubt the stuff he'd be doing is gonna include pre-meditated distancing at that point

[Iconeum]

gg

i guess

not my finest work xd

[Iconeum]

double bus for the win

[Iconeum]

what is this

european soccer?

[Iconeum]

nobody here is probably gonna get that but whatever

thanks everyone!

[Iconeum]

Naked

Well that's an autocorrect from NKed

ez bus
ez life