DEFCON Mafia 5.0: GAME OVER - NEW AMERICA FORMED

[DeasVail]

I conform

[DeasVail]

DeasVail is pure gut.

It’s my cute avatar

[DeasVail]

Also I take it back, I do not conform

VOTE: Against

I remember reading about the difference between these but I don’t remember what I learnt from the process.

Consider this a product of my pathological need to be different.

This should be fun?

[DeasVail]

mastina's reads look random to me?

I’m catching up by reading properly now but at this point in the game I actually find myself... vining... with mastina’s reads and I’m not sure how to feel about that

[DeasVail]

UGH VIBING

I MEANT VIBING

[DeasVail]

I took the time to read what total war does and yes I would like that please.

VOTE: total: war

Also.. I think... this makes DN town

[DeasVail]

My initial thought was that DN was scummy for over-justifying what was actually a useless vote.

However, as scum, why would he state so confidently that he has read about total war when his entire post clearly indicates he has no idea what is going on? Particularly since I expect that this would have already been a talking point in the Russian PT and/or scum would put more thought into where they vote and how it will be perceived.

DN’s post appears to me very likely to come from someone unaligned and alone in the world.

[DeasVail]

I am indeed most concerned by et al right now

[DeasVail]

LAMIST

Which is clearly NAI in this case, so why bring it up?

-S

Such projected confidence

So... unconvincing?

[DeasVail]

I SMELL ONLY FEAR WHEN SOMETHINGSCUM TALKS

You must be really bad at reading emotion then.

Btw, I would like to get normalpooky back before long. I could probably use his support given that a lot of people here have stale or no experience with me (stale being arguably worse).

-S

Why not focus on engaging with the people who have stale/no experience with you, in such a way that they can better read you, instead?

I am genuinely unclear on your approach here and most importantly I’m unclear on how it is town-driven.

[DeasVail]

What did you think I was doing in 266 and 273?

I mean I'm being more snarky than I could be, so if you think it's inhibiting comprehension, I can tone it down. But I feel like I've been engaging with the claims that I objected to (such as yours, and earlier mastina's).

-S

I thought that you were responding to concerns about your alignment with what essentially amounted to “you’re obviously wrong, duuuh! Why are you even saying that?”

Just in different words.

For example your question to me has an obvious answer. You were confidently stating in your post that the alleged LAMIST was NAI.

Your question to Nexus had an even more obvious answer. You asked why he brought up the LAMIST. I think it’s pretty easy to infer that he thought it was relevant for your alignment.

So you didn’t actually need to ask these questions to clarify our motivations. So then why ask them? My current hypothesis is that you’re scum trying to look busy and as if you’re engaging and bothered by people suspecting you (which you would be regardless of your alignment, to be fair).

And this is because your engagement is superficial and hollow, as if you are trying to replicate what you would do as town but haven’t quite found that groove and are getting frustrated that it’s not working out.

I am prepared to be wrong, but those are my current thoughts.

[DeasVail]

At this point, imnot going to point out what post is setting me off, but im prolly going to nuke someone that is pushing stupidly for stupid reasons and then actually follows thru with a stupid nuke action.

I always love a good mystery.

Does the post in question have red hair?

[DeasVail]

I thought that you were responding to concerns about your alignment with what essentially amounted to “you’re obviously wrong, duuuh! Why are you even saying that?”

Well, yes and no. Yes because that is what I'm saying, but I still feel like that qualifies as engaging, because I'm inviting people to talk more about the thing that I disagree with them on.

The snark, as I said, was probably unnecessary. But I get scumread for playstyle things in virtually every game I play, and I'm a bit sick of it, especially since people don't tend to respond charitably to my attempts to explain otherwise (see: Nexus).

And this is because your engagement is superficial and hollow, as if you are trying to replicate what you would do as town but haven’t quite found that groove and are getting frustrated that it’s not working out.

Also, this is kinda interesting-- there's nothing in here that suggests that this behavior is more likely to be from scum than from town. I don't

feel

like my engagement is more superficial than it usually is at this stage in the game, but maybe it looks different from the outside. And so I certainly would be frustrated that it's not working out-- as either alignment. (Also, how do you know that I'm trying to

replicate

what I do as town if you've never even played with me? What makes you think this isn't just what I do as town?)

-S

The comments on being scumread because of your playstyle really don’t do much for me and I also don’t appreciate the implication that I need to be familiar with you in order to read you.

The reason for my thoughts was that much of your posting felt like what scum would do trying to do what they would do as town, because a lot of it didn’t actually make much sense to me as coming from town. (What I said about the questions to me and nexus being unnecessary and likely not thought through)

Btw I also don’t see what your complaint is about Nexus given you responded to his suspicion with “it’s clearly NAI”. That’s really shutting down any further conversation

[DeasVail]

a lot of it didn’t actually make much sense to me as coming from town

Can you elaborate on this? Why doesn't it seem like something town would do?

-S

I mean, if my post 282 didn’t satisfy then I don’t have anything more to say right now.

[DeasVail]

I actually would want an obvtown player to grab fallout shelter. It'd be shitty for me personally but a way to keep obvtown alive is good.

so you cant obv town? cmon titus

No. It's a very Titus defect.

I have been reading you as pretty town

[DeasVail]

I scumread bell, so Im not sure about this.

Why? What do you scum read me for now?

High postcount, low content.

This seems kind of superficial

[DeasVail]

This seems kind of superficial

THIS PERSONS LOCATION GIVES AWAY THAT HE IS NOT TRULY AN AMERICAN PATRIOT AND IS INSTEAD HIDING ON A DIFFERENT CONTINENT

My location is a lie too!

[DeasVail]

vote samantha97

I'm interested in this vote because I had the opposite impression.

[DeasVail]

Also my initial instinct was to OMGUS T3 but honestly he's probably town, alas.

[DeasVail]

I've never rolled scum.

Though this seems rather out of the blue. Did I miss something?

[DeasVail]

A lot of this has felt like just waiting for nukes and stuff.

I have reads I guess but nothing that I feel passionate about rn and there’s sort of this feeling that it doesn’t really matter yet

[DeasVail]

I also reached a similar outcome on et al to what Cephrir did

And the mastina pressure feels appropriate

[DeasVail]

I definitely agree with a lot of the thoughts that you’re putting out there mastina. I don’t know if that is actually alignment-relevant but felt it was important to express that

[DeasVail]

Apologies for not being very PRESENT. I will probably be reading up on everything tonight but something I really didn’t expect was how the game design makes it really difficult (for me at least) to identify the point of posting (or even thinking, really) anything of proper substance at this point.

It does all feel superfluous at the moment. Am I wrong?

[DeasVail]

I think you're right. I had a feeling I was being excessively glum

[DeasVail]

Also I read the part about mastina playing EpicMafia and now I want to see mastina play an epicmafia game! Sad times

Anyway, I digress.

I don't really have proper reads right now and there's something oddly freeing about it.

I might do a reads list later

[DeasVail]

Also Cephrir we are damn well going to hallow this ground, just you watch!

[DeasVail]

i actually do feel like this stuff matters tho bc beyond the setup and who gets what like we’re clearly able to scrape some stuff out of all this or at least i feel i have + i have a high opinion of you currently deas from team maf so i really would like to vibe a bit if you’re around later

Oh hi, sorry for missing this, and for generally being a real wet blanket. I will be better tomorrow

[DeasVail]

trolls rather than Americans

[DeasVail]

Why not? The description is accurate.

Some kupos are taking a laid back approach versus hunting Russians. Some people are determined to be laid back. This seems an accurate statement does it not? Am I missing something cute animal Kupo?

I was moreso questioning the assertion that trolls and Americans are mutually exclusive but I do agree with you generally.

I have this afternoon off work so will probably develop reads etc in 4-5 hours or so

[DeasVail]

I've read up to page 50 and I'm taking a break but I also feel like posting something, partly so that it looks like I'm doing something and partly because I might forget what my thoughts are otherwise.

But here we go.

People I think are town:

LLD
Mognet
Pooky
Et Al
Koto
Church
Titus
DeathNote
samantha97
marry

--

If you didn't make the cut, I'm sorry. But you still have between page 50 and 60 to make it onto my list so there's a chance!

[DeasVail]

If you didn't make the cut, I'm sorry. But you still have between page 50 and 60 to make it onto my list so there's a chance!

This seems a scam, my last post was page 49.

you were close

[DeasVail]

I've read up to page 50 and I'm taking a break but I also feel like posting something, partly so that it looks like I'm doing something and partly because I might forget what my thoughts are otherwise.

But here we go.

People I think are town:

LLD
Mognet
Pooky
Et Al
Koto
Church
Titus
DeathNote
samantha97
marry

--

If you didn't make the cut, I'm sorry. But you still have between page 50 and 60 to make it onto my list so there's a chance!

Can you explain these a little bit? Just a sentence or two for each one would be fine.

I will but it won't happen right now.

[DeasVail]

Hello beautiful people! I will have more for you all soon

[DeasVail]

You seemed pretty set on me being scum earlier and I can't imagine that events since then have changed your mind on me. What changed?

[DeasVail]

Okay I've caught up on the current day and there is still a fair bit of the previous day and Mastina wagon stuff that I haven't read and still want to, but I'm mostly still cool with the town list I posted in 1486, with probable additions of The Entity, Bell, Joqiza and Robert M Hunter. Maybe some more caution around Samantha for me because there have been a couple of posts that have made me go HMMM but I don't think I'd be in a position to actually properly consider that slot as scum right now.

The other slots I am still thinking about and them not being a townread for me could be either due to suspicion or because I haven't felt able to sort them yet. Reasons for my townreads will probably have to wait until I have more time/they're more relevant because I've been disorganised unfortunately.

At the forefront of my mind for scum might actually be Vaxkiller? I actually kind of agree with mastina's initial reasoning for "scumreading" them. A lot of Vax's interactions do feel forced or unnatural, as if an attempt to project a certain image rather than just Vax posting.
Recent examples that stuck out to me included 1941 where Vaxkiller is essentially brushing off a disagreement rather than trying to resolve or explore it, but seems to me like something scum would do when they're trying to engage with town but don't actually know how to do this naturally. Similar thing in 1934. There seems to be little effort (or care) to actually convince people that T3 is town.

I am aware that Vax voted Mastina early but it was the sort of vote that I think a buddy could have found themselves stuck on after the wagon had materialised. Indeed Vaxkiller did not particularly do anything to push that wagon through.

[DeasVail]

rereading day 3 atm

VOTE: mognet

how come prism and mognet both seem uninterested in mastina

VOTE: Vaxkiller

Never in my life did I see myself chainsawing for mastina, though this vote is less about having a townread on her and more about not liking Vax's opening and explanation of their houghts on Pooky

i like VFP for town - mastina also tried to cast shade onto that slot and i don't see scum doing that to an absent partner
i like vax for town - i like their posts
cephrir and lld too - obvious reasons

I am shocked at how fast this wagon is going and no counters are emerging.

interesting...

Hello fellow commanders.
I am the new leader of Washington facility. Hopefully, the last one.
Any urgent matters?

have you read the game koto, any thoughts?

joqiza seems town - i like their posts
i like church for town - i like 1475
i like dv for town though i'm sad i'm not on his town list though i've probably given no reason to be added to it

something pings me about gorilla

VOTE: T3

I said I'd vote on the largest wagon but you don't need my help to push it through so I'm going to make a symbolic vote.

why T3?

i like marry for town - i think i'd be sad if marry were scum

probably need to reread again tbh still trying to get my head around this game

Hi!

I would like to hear a bit more about the mognet vote here. I feel like there is a lot more to the slot than prism chainsawing mastina and so I'm interested in what you think of all the other stuff or are just ignoring it etc.?

I also am interested in why you think I'm town. Any townread on me here is honestly a bit of a surprise considering that I am wracked with guilt every time I think about opening the thread!

[DeasVail]

VFP, assume Marry is scum. Why does scum Marry fake claim eavesdropper multiple times?

Well since mastina was eavesdropper , it's probable scum discussed and wanted to use it with no CC risk.
I didn't take the claims I saw as hard claim though. mastina flipping eavesdropper negates that as any argument here.

Use it?

Townslip for not knowing what the eavesdropper is??

I feel like this is pretty clearly referring to "use it" as a claim?

[DeasVail]

Don't get me wrong, I still thinm it makes no sense. But...

[DeasVail]

VOTE: Nexus

[DeasVail]

I really don't like the idea of a mognet wagon. I don't have any specific posts to point to right now but the way in which mognet just laid it all out there feels very low-pretense to me

[DeasVail]

i read robert's stuff around his role as town having no idea how to play their role. i think he is claiming Counterintelligence, and i have trouble imagining scum with that role making the posts he's made. i am not locktowning it by any means but that's why i'm not looking to vote there at this moment. on the other hand, that role would be no great loss, so i will not object strenuously if we go there.

This but I object slightly more because I think Robert's town and I don't like eliminating town?

[DeasVail]

VOTE: Nexus

Why?

Out of the wagons going right now, Nexus feels the most likely to flip scum. While the others have points in their favour that I feel make them town, Nexus has just been... there. I don't confidently believe him to be scum, but it's the sort of situation where I feel like that's possible, whereas I am less convinced by the other wagons.
I would consider a VFP vote maybe though.

[DeasVail]

VOTE: Nexus

Why?

Out of the wagons going right now, Nexus feels the most likely to flip scum. While the others have points in their favour that I feel make them town, Nexus has just been... there. I don't confidently believe him to be scum, but it's the sort of situation where I feel like that's possible, whereas I am less convinced by the other wagons.
I would consider a VFP vote maybe though.

So less "I have reasons to scumread Nexus" and more "I have reasons to townread people other than Nexus"?

Yes

[DeasVail]

Robert I don’t even think you were in much danger of an elim?

What’s going on?

[DeasVail]

I don’t think there is one

[DeasVail]

@gorilla

Townbloc
Vaxkiller
gorilla
LadyLamdaDelta
T3
SaveTheDragons


I think Titus and Cephir are town too, what are your opinions on them?

Why town-STD?

[DeasVail]

I also don't really have much more to say. My townreads are largely unchanged. Of all the people being wagoned and their reactions, Nexus feels the most detached. I really could see the slot flipping either way, but I seriously think that Robert and IV are both bad eliminations. VFP I feel "eh" about.

[DeasVail]

Oh I also actually follow Titus' reasoning for voting Nexus which makes me feel good about Titus and her positioning on it as well

[DeasVail]

Deas and samantha i assume the TRs on me are because of Mognet? nothing I have done is AI yet right?

From me, yes. I must admit I haven’t read your posts very closely

[DeasVail]

DeasVail - @DeasVail why do you townread us? It's weird because I feel like you confidently TR us while several people are suspecting us and I'm not sure what to think of this so if you could bring light to this that would be cool.

It has been a while since I updated my read on you but I remember liking the almost free-association nature of your reads lists. There may have also been something more specific that I liked, from memory, but I forget exactly what that was. I’m at work now and plan to check later, but it’s not the sort of thing that’s urgent for me rn.

[DeasVail]

I will have time for this later today!

[DeasVail]

imagine having 110 pages of game and your case being "3rd vote = scum"

It is one of the more compelling cases out there

[DeasVail]

STD, why did you nuke Koto? Apologies if I missed it in your posts

[DeasVail]

Samantha, I need to know more about where your head is at. Your dedication to your early scumread on me is admirable and led to my early townread on you, but the more that it goes on without much else in the way of productive thought, the more I liken you to one of those one-hit wonder bands that continue to play their one hit at gigs for decades after the fact

PEdit: I am reading over and trying to reevaluate my reads at the moment. A few people who I previously considered potential scum (nexus, toogeloo) are in my opinion less likely to be so now.

Vaxkiller and T3 are still in my PoE but I am aware that many people disagreed with the Vax scumread and while I wouldn’t normally let other people’s opinions matter that much to me, I don’t have the sort of grip on the game right now where I feel confident in asserting my own lazy reads.

With T3 I struggle to think of a good reason why they are town but whenever I think of the idea of eliminating them, it’s like... eh.

PEdit: My read on Koto is strong town. I thought that Merlot was a much more town iteration of Ydrasse compared to what I’ve seen of her as scum, and I feel that she was more personally affected by complaints about hyperposting than she would have been as scum. Koto was obnoxious to people but I don’t consider that alignment relevant

I want to reconsider my reads of IV and Robert due to people whose opinion I respect believing them to possibly/likely be scum. Though I still find it difficult to get my head around IV-scum in particular. I need to re-think church also

[DeasVail]

Koto did replace Merlot right?

[DeasVail]

I was not expecting anyone to have a strong town read on that slot

Oops

[DeasVail]

VOTE: Save The Dragons

[DeasVail]

A few people who I previously considered potential scum (nexus, toogeloo) are in my opinion less likely to be so now.

Why do they seem less likely to you now?

I do not feel that nexus as scum needs to make a big play by being the first to nuke and nuking a polarising slot like IV when he had the advantage of being VFP’s counterwagon the previous day (which I think scum would expect to be giving nexus a bit of a free pass for the next while)

Regarding toogeloo, I feel like I could say something about there being obvious progression and thought behind their reads despite lower content, but honestly the thing I liked most was them tooting their own horn

[DeasVail]

Regarding STD I’ve been toying with the idea that he’s been using his sense of humour to look town and convey a sense of ease when in fact he is feeling very self-conscious about what he is doing.
I’m not sure how that fits right now but I also am aware that this thought could easily point me to the wrong alignment.

The posts since my vote have been fascinating, though.

—

Regarding Merlot, in reading her posts I just felt a massive difference between my recently played game with her in Team Mafia (mostly sluggish, with hyper posting in response to pressure) and here where there was this immediate enthusiasm with the response to The Entity making very much sense to me as town who really wanted to get into this and had the wind blown out of their sails or whatever the term is supposed to be.

From a quick search of Koto’s name I found the reasoning for the scumread to be incredibly lacking and so I want to open up a conversation about it

[DeasVail]

i think there’s a legitimate chance we just nuked 4 townies lmao

I think so too

[DeasVail]

I kind of want to intercept one of them but I want it to.. do something, you know?

[DeasVail]

with the response to The Entity making very much sense to me as town who really wanted to get into this and had the wind blown out of their sails or whatever the term is supposed to be.

I kind of agree

But why can’t she be scum getting the wind blown out of her sails

I did consider that, but particularly if entity is town, it’s like, why do you care about town complaining about you being anti-town when you’re actually scum? I don’t get it.

[DeasVail]

I kind of want to intercept one of them but I want it to.. do something, you know?

IV might do something. I dont think the other options would.

are there specific scumteam configurations with which she could plausibly be with? she’s never aligned with entity right?

Eh. It seems to me like they have a personal issue stemming from TM and that was the problem

Out of all the nukes I sadly felt that IV was the most likely to get re-nuked despite them being probably imo most likely town of them.
I will think on it

[DeasVail]

I'm sort of racking my brain for reads right now and struggling to come up with suspects.

I was toying with the possibility of DV-scum but it doesn't feel right after his posts tonight.

Hm. Idk, I see a lot more objection to the IV nuke than any other right now. I do think T3 looks pretty likely town at this point as well though.

This may be a good point. I was skimming through and saw a lot of “PRISM AND MOGNET BOTH CHAONSAWING FOR MASTINA!!! DISTRACTING FROM THE MASTINA ELIM!!!” but that could’ve just been Vaxkiller or something.

Also

UNVOTE: Save The Dragons

[DeasVail]

I have no idea what Ceph is but I decided that allowing myself to feel comfortable with that is just the best way for now.

[DeasVail]

If Koto is going to stay consistent with his level of activity I do not care if he is alive or dead to be quite honest.

Yeah I think this is the issue.

As much as I am slightly towards the LlamaFluff end of the spectrum when it comes to my opinion of town vigs, sometimes having a slot no longer there as a distraction is okay.

[DeasVail]

At this point I would prefer that IV we’re not nukes but it’s your nuke Nexus, your choice.

[DeasVail]

IV has been pleasant and vaguely towny and while I agree that isn’t particularly cause for a townread, I still believe that much of mognet’s posting is unlikely to come from scum. Particularly the stuff around Mastina and the degree of... pissing everyone off? It kind of goes against what I would expect from scum

[DeasVail]

VOTE: DV

How’s it goin’

Hi, I’m thinking of saving T3 if DN doesn’t recall. We’ll see

Otherwise things are okay. Have had quite a busy week!! Much exhausting.

How are you?

[DeasVail]

Also I approve of Robert death, contrary to my previous feelings

[DeasVail]

From my understanding of the roles, a submarine shot wouldn’t actually be very defendable at all?

Also, my reason for claiming when I did was partly because I felt myself becoming an easy PoE suspect for people (largely due to my own negligence) and so I thought being more transparent would be a good idea.
I also was seeking feedback on what would be worth doing with my role.

@Titus: it’s not that I feel strongly about T3, but more that game events point to T3 being town and he is also the kind of person that could realistically survive as a townread if not nuked

[DeasVail]

I’m assuming that scum making a nuke are not necessarily going to let on that they are scum nuking?

[DeasVail]

Uh, isn't submarine a scum role.

?

[DeasVail]

I’m assuming that scum making a nuke are not necessarily going to let on that they are scum nuking?

Okay so I kind of sound like an idiot now huh.

But still aren't you like, the only thing protecting major town players?

I think someone outing themselves as scum by making a silly nuke is a worthy trade off by someone who would have been night-killed otherwise.

Realistically I’ll probably be too scared of the possibility of stopping a kill on scum to intercept the nuke on T3, but I am going back and forth over his ISO atm so we will see how I feel.

PEdit: no worries, I don’t really know what I’m doing. I’m honestly surprised that I got my first choice of troop given that I submitted very late.

Bell, I need to know who nukes in order to intercept. Also my understanding is that submarine is a troop option for everyone, so it could belong to scum or town

[DeasVail]

This also stops them from retaliating if they're that vengeful role.

If my understanding is correct, Fail Safe (which T3 has claimed) is the vengeful role and fail safe nukes cannot be prevented.

Also if anyone is reading along and thinks I’m totally off track please let me know because I’m slightly concerned about how markedly my understanding of the game appears to differ from others

[DeasVail]

Argh, I realised that I missed the boat for the intercept and it takes 24h for my intercept to happen. I was going off the detonation happening 24h from cakez’s post but I just double-checked and the countdown indicates that it started from DN’s post.

If I’m wrong someone let me know but if not I’m really sorry T3

[DeasVail]

Huh, that's silly that you have to know the name of the player firing off the nuke to intercept it.

It’s pretty clear in the role description

[DeasVail]

This also stops them from retaliating if they're that vengeful role.

If my understanding is correct, Fail Safe (which T3 has claimed) is the vengeful role and fail safe nukes cannot be prevented.

Also if anyone is reading along and thinks I’m totally off track please let me know because I’m slightly concerned about how markedly my understanding of the game appears to differ from others

Also it’s vengeful only against Russian kills hence why people read T3 as town I believe

[DeasVail]

Also it’s vengeful only against Russian kills hence why people read T3 as town I believe

Wait what?

Oh yeah sorry. I’m used to vengeful referring to when someone can choose who to kill after dying

[DeasVail]

It's sad that I've read the troop descriptions multiple times and am still misunderstanding the roles.

Hey it’s happened to me too, don’t worry!

[DeasVail]

Good to know Gorilla. Thanks

[DeasVail]

Good to know Gorilla. Thanks

By the way, what's your read on me?

Town

[DeasVail]

I don't have the energy for this right now so will have to wait until tomorrow.

But..

Titus, joqiza, DeasVail, and Cephrir should all eat a nuke imo.

Why do you scumread me?

[DeasVail]

I'm not confident enough in Nexus being town to intercept Titus' nuke.

In considering every slot of the game, I'm kind of left with Equinox. Vaxkiller and Marry at the bottom of my pile, with no REEEAL good reason to townread them.

I am surprised that Marry is getting more attention. Is there something I missed there? I must admit I haven't fully read the game.

[DeasVail]

Marry is *not getting more attention

[DeasVail]

No worries! I was actually initially just thinking Equinox and Vaxkiller but then I remembered that marry existed.

(above @church)

idk if I have a strong townread on Titus, but she is in my townish pile.

[DeasVail]

I read Sam's stubbornness in sticking with their scumread on me without any additional reasoning (which would be very easy to make up as scum) despite ongoing pressure regarding this, to be town.

[DeasVail]

I read Sam's stubbornness in sticking with their scumread on me without any additional reasoning (which would be very easy to make up as scum) despite ongoing pressure regarding this, to be town.

This reasoning leaves much to be desired.
Sam's scum or a PR imo.
Did they ever claim.

I agree that Sam would have surely nuked me by now if they could have, but I feel like that would have happened regardless of their alignment.

What do you think is left to be desired?

[DeasVail]

I read Sam's stubbornness in sticking with their scumread on me without any additional reasoning (which would be very easy to make up as scum) despite ongoing pressure regarding this, to be town.

This reasoning leaves much to be desired.
Sam's scum or a PR imo.
Did they ever claim.

I agree that Sam would have surely nuked me by now if they could have, but I feel like that would have happened regardless of their alignment.

What do you think is left to be desired?

As sam themselves would testify, acting stubborn and "sticking to your guns" is both scummy and American.
I've confused myself.
Point being is plenty of people know that being a block head can be confused with conviction or personal beliefs.

I guess my main point is that it would be really easy to come up with some other reasons for me being scum based on my posts. Why wouldn't Samantha as scum do that?

[DeasVail]

VOTE: Equinox

[DeasVail]

@deasvil
If joq doesn't show up tonight, you may need to shoot it down. If both of you "lurk out" consider it a scum claim.

I am here dw

[DeasVail]

(in the process of catching up now)

[DeasVail]

marry is likely town based on associations.

I don't know if this is enough

[DeasVail]

Also if it ends up being a situation where I think myself being nuked is necessary/beneficial for the game then I won't intercept a nuke on me. I am in this place of knowing that I am in the PoE (which is in large part I think due to my own less solid engagement with the game and sub-par reads) and I don't know if I will be able to... get myself out of that.

But I will finish my read and share my thoughts

[DeasVail]

marry is likely town based on associations.

I don't know if this is enough

It's not just VFP.
To me it's
- mastina saying joqiza and marry have a hectic-ydrasse like dynamic. That I feel like is the true when it comes from mastina's mouth and I think that that fits how they play scum. I don't think marry is aligned.
- VFP interactions.
- Joqiza. Regardless of Joqiza's read on marry, I think the read is genuine and I think its worth trusting. Joqiza apparently reads marry extremely well and has experience with them so I think their read on her is trustworthy.

And here I am having flashbacks to Hectic's totally incorrect read on Ydrasse in TM

[DeasVail]

Disappointed that didn't get questions, but I'm serious: What actual good reasons are there to clear joqiza? I don't think the mastina thing is convincing in and of itself.

My read on joqiza feels similar to their read on me

[DeasVail]

It's the vibes gorilla, the vibes!!!

[DeasVail]

I think Farrar is the best nuke

[DeasVail]

oh wait it's Farrar nuking

oops

sorry Farrar

[DeasVail]

joqiza has convinced me that marry would not be a good nuke

PEdit: I am thinking about what I wouldn't intercept but the list is small.

[DeasVail]

unfortunately I do suspect that nuking joqiza > nuking marry but it feels bad damn

[DeasVail]

I'm obviously not going to intercept that.

[DeasVail]

I also do regret wanting nexus to recall the IV nuke, and everything regarding nexus really

[DeasVail]

exactly

[DeasVail]

I’ll read through Joqiza’s posts again tonight

[DeasVail]

Intercept: JohnnyFarrar

Is that how I do it?

Did I do the thing?!?!?

I think I did the thing!!

THIS IS FOR YOU T3 EVEN THOUGH YOU SUSPECTED ME BUT I DON'T CARRRREEEEE

[DeasVail]

Also sorry to everyone if Joqiza is actually scum, but you've got to admit this would be pretty hilarious if he is

[DeasVail]

okay I'm actually a bit scared of that now but IT IS DONE THERE IS NO GOING BACK

[DeasVail]

Why am I reading about deer?

[DeasVail]

Can't we just say "hey DV tomorrow you're only allowed to use your intercept on gorilla, Bell, Vax, Vax's clear" or whatever, you can pick and choose, and if he goes against that it's a scumclaim? Like what's he gonna do? If he's Russian it means they only got one silo left max.

NO ONE CAN TELL ME WHAT TO DO

well maybe they can but this whole section is kind of funny

[DeasVail]

the way i see it what happens now is, hopefully marry had silo, and we can:
- nuke IV
- lim titus
- check me

info on me gives info on DV too cuz he intercepted on my behalf. that takes care of the counterwagon and even if it's all town (which it very well could be) we're still in an okay spot

tbf I probably would have saved town with my intercept if I were scum

(but it's okay they don't have to know that!)

[DeasVail]

because DeasVail seems townie to me
ig I'm a hypocrite tho because my sam and equniox/johnny reads are basically "I have townreads on everyone else and I like those townreads a lot and feel like these players are more townie than these"

but I feel like I want to point out that if DeasVail is a scumread for people, I feel like its a scumread that doesn't really have a lack of explanation to it. That or I just haven't seen one.

you forgot about Samantha's case of me being the third person to vote against total war

[DeasVail]

also to be fair I have really not helped eliminate scum this game so it makes sense.

I would argue that my plan as scum here would have been to hard bus and try to yolo endgame but honestly I don't even know what I'd have done. Something different, probably. (I have to say though, strategic missile defence is an excellent scum-pick. People are afraid to kill me just because I can stop people from dying. Amazing!)

But yes, less talking about me and more talking about other people!

JohnnyFarrar is still my first choice for death. I honestly do find the "a/the terrorist" point strangely compelling.

Second I think is... IV

Yeah we're at that point :/

[DeasVail]

I guess more on the JohnnyFarrar slot.

I thought Reck was his usual shouty self and honestly my best guess that he was being town-shouty instead of scum-shouty but the Merlot slot being scum I do actually think points a bit more to The Entity-scum. I think that Equinox's brief appearance was fine I guess but lacking in anything that really sparks town.
And honestly I think that Johnny has actually been kind of scummy? The Joqiza nuke and how that happened felt more like scum trying to make the best nuke they could get away with rather than actually being town-motivated. And the posting about not really knowing what to do actually feels kind of fake to me. I think there's a way of town saying that they have no idea what's going on someone pls help me etc., and then there's what Johnny is doing.

When it comes to IV, it relies on me having been very wrong on Mognet but I still get dodge vibes from IV's posting at the time when there were nukes on him/koto/T3/DN going. Felt like he was trying to look town and hoping to have the nuke recalled rather than actually saying that himself.

I'm stretching a lot here. I don't actually have good reasons to scumread people, but this is the best my head has got right now.

[DeasVail]

I WILL STOP ALL THE KILLS

[DeasVail]

It’s clearly a deer

[DeasVail]

Hi I don’t have much time rn but I definitely think Sam needs to be eliminated today

[DeasVail]

I know I know

Just providing my approval is all

[DeasVail]

I kind of like the plan of leashing to non-silos

[DeasVail]

It seems I have a bit to catch up on. Should I intercept anything?

[DeasVail]

Aww no fun!

Someone make a silly nuke please

(Except not you church)

[DeasVail]

I con.... firm that I’m cool with the plan