Mini Normal 2207 | The End

[AliceK]

Hello everyone I hope you have a wonderful day so far. A lot of content already. That's nice.

[AliceK]

hello all.
I'm fed up of always getting eliminated for my normal style of play (which is very "sit back and vote infrequently")

I said in my last game i am going to be different.

So, firstly this is the 8th post so far in the game so far.

And there is a Mafia one time Strongman in this game, i have been informed of this fact.

I really doubt it is the only reason why you gets eliminated. That is never enough. But that's really good that you want to improve.

[AliceK]

Iconeum, Datisi, geraintm give me Town vibes.
I am very sure about Iconeum, he is just too paranoid to be a scum.

[AliceK]

i literally don't care what people think now. i hate day ones, i think town trying to come to an educated elimination means scum are less likely to be eliminated than if straws were drawn. i want to move to day 2 when other people will have some information from overnight and we can try and properly find scum

You can find a scum Day 1 provided that people are not hesitated to eliminate PR. You just can't look at a claim if there is enough evidence from other sources.

[AliceK]

alice, any reason you're responding to that old gera post instead of anything that's happened since?

I am just reading the thread from the first unread posts. Couldn't find enough time to fully catch up, but I will get there.

Right now I am keeping an eye on Gypyx, innocentvillager and Baltar. I will elaborate on this later, but my impression is that they are just going with a flow without bringing anything new to the table.

[AliceK]

Calling town reads quick on folks who might be argumentative and calling IV scum when he's being silly, plus OMGUSing slightly cause I poked him.

Sounds like Luca is scumming it up on the path of least resistance over there.

I have a lot of experience with Datisi and Norwee and they both seem Town so far

Scum can be silly too

My opinion on you has nothing to do with Omgus, and is more in line with what Norwegian touched on before - you’re commenting on stuff but not really doing anything with it. Right now you’re assuming motives behind my reads without even bothering to question them

What kind of experience? What would you expect them to do as scum in this game?

[AliceK]

Geraint you’re a bad player, but town. That’s all i have to say.

I will stick to that as well. I don't think forcing Geraint to do anything Day 1 leads anywhere, apparently he is Town who refuses to play Day1. It's fine.

[AliceK]

VOTE: innocentvillager

I will land my vote here. He is overfocused on Datisi ignoring everything around him. It looks forced. Could it be that he is trying to avoid interactions with other players, because he doesn't feel comfortable in interactions with scum buddies.

[AliceK]

VOTE: innocentvillager

I will land my vote here. He is overfocused on Datisi ignoring everything around him. It looks forced. Could it be that he is trying to avoid interactions with other players, because he doesn't feel comfortable in interactions with scum buddies.

what do people think of this vote on me? i called it bad yes, but i want to hear other people reasoning first maybe

like Baltar said yikes and then asked if Alice was an alt, can you expand where your heads at on that?

I am just feeling you have the highest chance of flipping scum. I just don't feel your progression in this game is natural. What you are doing with Datisi feels like it is going nowhere. I would like to know what it this about.

[AliceK]

Alice, are you an alt?

Nope.

[AliceK]

alice, do you have slightly more elaborate opinions on anyone other than innocentvillager

Yes, I think geraintm is town, I don't think it is likely that he would go with his -ev play as scum along with his claim about strongman. Also I think you/Iconeum are tvt. I am more sure about Ico.

[AliceK]

VOTE: innocentvillager

I will land my vote here. He is overfocused on Datisi ignoring everything around him. It looks forced. Could it be that he is trying to avoid interactions with other players, because he doesn't feel comfortable in interactions with scum buddies.

I didn't think iv was only focusing on Datisi tho? And your post suggests he is scumbuddies with about 9 other players then or??

He was focusing mainly on Datisi and yes his scumbuddies are along 9 other people.

[AliceK]

AliceK provided 3 naked townreads, followed by 3 naked scumreads followed by a vote on IV

I think this is literally scum who's going by some sort of checklist:

-get townreads
-get scumreads
-make a vote
-??
-profit

or something like that

Reads are mostly not naked I stated my reasons behind most of them. You are trying to say that only scums are doing that which is not true. I think getting as many trs and srs is important. Voting someone even with lack of arguments is also beneficial as a pressured scum is more likely to make a mistake.

[AliceK]

neither of your 3 townreads were explained
neither of your 3 scumreads were explained

IIRC

that's pretty much the definition of naked

I explained my reads on geraintm, you and iv. I won't write an essay if you ask for that.

[AliceK]

that's not really "more elaborate". could you provide some reasoning to go with that? also, thoughts on gypyx/baltar still the same, or?

@alice

I should find some time after the work. A lot of interesting stuff happened I can comment on.

[AliceK]

N_M is not doing much in this game.... Is it typical for him? I will likely go through player list later and post more elaborative reads.

[AliceK]

Alice those reads are coming along i hope?

Yeah, let me start with George. I am very lazy and there is not much to read. I will just focus on his recent reads.

You're saying scum doesn't get offended by that? 'cause i disagree

Nah, I agree with IV. A scummy response would have been to push someone to prove them wrong.

well, it's basically that i think scum is less likely to wanna like, openly make things easier for a quickhammer you see?

Why is that? Usually the blame is shifted to the person who hammered anyways. It seems beneficial to makes things easier for a quickhammer...?



Well, I think VP/Norwee/Gera are town.

Datisi/Iconeum are like, constantly going at each other, I honestly think Datisi looks the best there, since it's the norm for N_M to quickhammer, and Geraint says he's quickhammering when he can lol.

N_M did the N_M introduction.


IV i'm very unsure on, Alice seems like LHF. Anya is null too.

I have some tinfoil hat theory on Luca, based off a previous game.

VOTE: Gypyx

He is pinging me scum slightly. The reads are not controversial. Town block makes sense. The reason why I think George might be scum is a null block.
Anya started with a strong tr on George, there is no comment on that. I believe he could find much more on me and IV, but for some reason he doesn't want to do that. I can see him being a buddy with IV.

Beside that Gypyx vote might be on point and I doubt there is a reason to bus here. Maybe I will look into Gypyx's iso later.

[AliceK]

VOTE: innocentvillager

I will land my vote here. He is overfocused on Datisi ignoring everything around him. It looks forced. Could it be that he is trying to avoid interactions with other players, because he doesn't feel comfortable in interactions with scum buddies.

is the fact that you just repeated what's been said previously intentional or what?

hey @alice, still interested in the answer

day 1 of quoting this until alice replies

No it wasn't intentional. Weird question. What's your point?

[AliceK]

Yeah, I don't have a strong opinion on Anya.

Ico is 100% Town or Has a dumb agenda

[AliceK]

Anya's wagon can be pure. I actually missed a lot of content I will check her iso later. I just need to motivate myself to do sth

[AliceK]

In Anya/George I think George is Mafia. Anya's initial posts feel like are coming from Town.

[AliceK]

Don't worry I will be more active later into the game. I just suck Day 1 (:

[AliceK]

I wonder what will gerain say nie after scum elimination Day 1.

[AliceK]

I can agree on gypyx read. It really looks like George and gypex were distancing from each other.

[AliceK]

Yeah I would like to know what are possibilities for 2nd kill as I don't know all possible roles.

[AliceK]

Alice, thoughts on Icon?

Hard question. I still think he is town. EoD could definitely come from Ico! Town and I am just townreading his film day 1.

[AliceK]

Alice, thoughts on Icon?

Hard question. I still think he is town. EoD could definitely come from Ico! Town and I am just townreading his full day 1.

Ebwop

[AliceK]

Unless there a PGO

Ok thx. So only 2 options. PGO and Vigilante.

[AliceK]

Imo Datisi was a mafia kill unless he visited pgo.

[AliceK]

@NorwegianBoy In scale 1 to 10 how would you score your scum gameplay?

[AliceK]

alice why did you decide to live in Europe for this game?

Oh you can probably figure out exact country I don't want to solve the mystery

[AliceK]

@NorwegianBoy In scale 1 to 10 how would you score your scum gameplay?

Ummm 2?
Extremely bad.

Hmmm. I am not buying it. Anyone can confirm?

Bussing Day 1 is usually an awful idea, but I think with a low activity slot like George who had 2 prods you can hard commit to bus.

[AliceK]

alice why did you decide to live in Europe for this game?

Oh you can probably figure out exact country I don't want to solve the mystery

Lithuania

Nope.

[AliceK]

Bussing Day 1 is usually an awful idea, but I think with a low activity slot like George who had 2 prods you can hard commit to bus.

Sure i can see bussing as an possibility for a slot like George. But i’f you scumread me then i’m not going to accept: "it is possible you bussed" as the only reason to suspect me.

Just mentioning a possibility as you were extremely confident with a push on George. Not like I ever vote you today.

[AliceK]

If George played a simple plan this is likely his partner.
VOTE: Gypyx

[AliceK]

I'm the vig

ok

who'd you shoot

@N_M Can you confirm who you shot? (I am 99% sure it was Wooper, but confirm pls)

[AliceK]

I would say VP, N_M and NorwegianBoy are Sage today. I think IV is sus, maybe I will find something interesting on eod.

[AliceK]

I would say VP, N_M and NorwegianBoy are safe today. I think IV is sus, maybe I will find something interesting on eod.

Ebwop , stupid GBoard

[AliceK]

Imo 1-2 scums in {gypex, Ico, iv}. Could be that there is a deepwolf somewhere, but that's something to focus in p5/p3

[AliceK]

Imo 1-2 scums in {gypex, Ico, iv}. Could be that there is a deepwolf somewhere, but that's something to focus in p5/p3

Luca and I have basically already said this. Can I get a full reads list from you and your thoughts on Gypyx's claim?

I can probably do that, I will try to do it tomorrow.

[AliceK]

Official Vote Count

Iconeum

(4): VP Baltar, innocentvillager, Anya, Luca Blight

innocentvillager

(2): Gypyx, geraintm

Gypyx

(2): NorwegianboyEE, AliceK

Luca Blight

(1): Iconeum

Not Voting

(1): Not_Mafia

With 10 alive, it takes 6 to eliminate.

Deadline

: (expired on 2021-05-03 10:38:00)

Please note that the color

#800080

and all similar shades are considered off limits from now on.

not sure if both scum really push my yeet here?

luca/anya contains scum
aliceK keeps hands clean from my wagon, it's possible
maybe i'm wrong about gyp, but my defensive gut feeling is telling me this is town

If I vote you it's hammer and I still need to do a closer look at your eod.

[AliceK]

I am not sure why you think my read transition on Ico is weird. It's actually very simple. I was townreading Ico, because of his early paranoid tone (slightly for that) and because he looked very committed to my elimination (mainly for that). I just couldn't see why would scum do it. You quick-hammer a town member it draws a lot of attention to yourself which as scum you would like to avoid. There was no one else in imminent danger, so it wasn't protecting a scumbuddy. Just doesn't stick to scumagenda to do so.

Now GB's wagon. The problem of scums in these kind of situations is hesitation of what to do. I can see Town doing one of 2 things: hard committing to one of the wagons (doesn't matter which) or just ignore it. Iconeum was a third type: interested in voting someone, but not sure who (he was considering GB and Anya, but didn't vote any of them). I am actually not buying it. He was probably waiting for opportunity to save GB. Maybe waiting for GB to claim PR.

2nd point >>> 1 point, that's why I am scumreading Ico now

[AliceK]

About gypex he was pressured to stay on GB's wagon by Luca and Datisi. Point was that he had no good reason to vote GB.

[AliceK]

Finally IV, has a similar eod to Ico, but after hammer he made few weird posts which I can't interpret which alignment it can be, so I would say he is slightly scummy.

Town members I have right now are Not_Mafia, NorwegianBoy, gerain, Luca, VP. No idea on Anya.

[AliceK]

I'd like Alice to respond to Ico's critiques of her case.

I will elaborate on this more. Looks like I actually need to quote him.

[AliceK]

i wish the last page and a half hadn't happened, bc it lowkey sunk my read on literally everyone who's posted on them

Can you explain that?
Based on slots that have posted right now i'm thinking you and Luca are townie. Baltar leanscum.
I'm gonna join this wagon because i don't understand why George is this inactive and he hasn't been town so far.
VOTE: GeorgeBailey

agreeing with this

yeah absolutely

VOTE: george

if this is scum, you can die next

UNVOTE:

sure
i've been as open as Always

if you got them vibes you talk to me you know how it works

So Ico was voting George entire 8 minutes. That's why I didn't count that.

which are *both* crappy wagons exactly?

GB and?

I think here he was looking for other options to jump on.

VOTE: anya

also i pulled an allnighter and that's been forever and i'm at work and if i'm slow to respond whatever

OK, he voted Anya, sorry for that, I overlooked that. Forgive me.

After 3 days of voting Anya Ico decided to switch to George:

VOTE: GB

anya's recent posting is someting she can hopefully keep up
GB is just blatantly stalling at this point, doing jack shit. If this is town, then it's not a bad yeet anyway

If I had time i'd probably push Luca here while hiding behind wooper, but weekend vla is soonish and deadline etc

I'll take that fight tomorrow if there's a chance

ico can be scum with georhe but probably isn't scum with Anya
I'd be quite surprised if datisi and Luca are scum together and I independently kinda think datisi is weakly more likely to be town

yep solid read

i'm helping derail anya flip in order to get some bus driving credit on gorge

I believe in that.

The question is if Ico checked what was the situation in Anya vs George. It was 4v4 with Anya being active and not voting George and George very likely to skip his vote. Ico was voting Anya.

If Gypyx is the partner it makes sense for him to not switch to Anya due to suspicion.

[AliceK]

I will go with that
VOTE: Iconeum

[AliceK]

Ico was hannered?

[AliceK]

Interesting kill... Anyway I am a Cop and Anya is Town.

VOTE: gypyx

[AliceK]

anyways, let's be real there, i shouldn't live to endgame in that situation

True. Tbh I doubt you are Mafia with this NK. Unless it is a desperation kill. It highly suggest that there was a bus play day 1.

[AliceK]

I am a Cop and Anya is Town.

Really? Why did you target Anya?

Highest chance to survive the night with X-shot Vig and Mafia.

[AliceK]

I’m at work so don’t expect much effort from me. But i honestly think this kill points to some outlier like Geraintm. I’m thinking it’s perfectly possible he bussed George and then tried, and failed. To protect Iconeum from the hang.
VOTE: Geraintm

That makes sense. He hammered George day 1 and not vote Ico day 2. Hammer is a cheap play, scum definitely could do that.
UNVOTE:

[AliceK]

@ Norway.

Like, i know Scum have not played well this game - they've lost 2 players in 2 days - but you think my plan was to out myself day 1 with a role that exactly correctly my partner, hammer partner day 1, then go out of my way to make myself so obviously linked to the other scum day 2.
i've got that right?

that is more believable to you than me just blurting out my town role?

Why do people playing MAfia need to go looking for something 27 times more unlikely than the simpler explanation?

You just said that there is a strongman. What is your role exactly?

[AliceK]

Known roles (not seen this summary anywhere)

George Bailey - mafia goon
Datisi - town doctor
whooper - town roleblocker
iconeum - mafia 1 shot roleblocker
innocent villager - vanilla townie
geraintm - informed townie

claims

AliceK - Cop with clear on Anya

anything else i've missed?

N_M - Vigilante

[AliceK]

Yeah a lot of things are coming together. It doesn't look too good for you geraintm. I will probably vote you, but I will wait for everyone to post.

[AliceK]

I know you know, but in the moment such mistakes can happen

i love how the working theory is that i am some sort of scum mastermind who faked a claim day 1, then managed to get both my partners eliminated in the first 2 days and yet slip on this

still waiting to know if our cop has cleared anyone else besides ANya.

Nope. I did only one check. I don't want to share why, because it only benefits scums.

[AliceK]

Tbh, if i was cop then the last person i’d check is Anya. That’s the main thing i find sus about Alice.
I do believe Anya is spewed town though. As either Alice is scum fake claiming a true result or Alice is cop with an actual real result. Either way Anya town, the only issue is if Alice’s claim is trustworthy.

I play simple. Either I try to find Town in SRd players or find scum in TRd players. If I knew iv will be killed I would probably check you.

[AliceK]

why didn't you check me?

You could be shot by Vig. The main reason.

[AliceK]

Maybe I am wrong cause I've never rolled scum, but shouldn't scums actually try to avoid both eliminations? They should be aware that losing 2 members Day 1 and Day 2 is extremely bad for them.
-
Town have a lot PR's could be that N_M is actually scum and Mafia get a powerful Mafia Vig?

[AliceK]

Elim geraint

Anything else to say?

[AliceK]

Alice, did you crumb your claim?

Alice, answer my fucking question or I will join your wagon.

You don't need to be so aggressive. Answer for your question is yes.

[AliceK]

Alice, did you crumb your claim?

Alice, answer my fucking question or I will join your wagon.

You don't need to be so aggressive. Answer for your question is yes.

Wait. I actually thought you have something different in mind. crumb = softclaim right? So, no I didn't.

[AliceK]

What did you think he meant?

If I fully claimed, Cop is not my exact role. It's a version with modifier.

[AliceK]

In that case why was your answer ‘yes’

I literally thought that he asked if I not fully claimed. And the answer is yes. I didn't fully claim.

[AliceK]

I think geraintm!scum makes the most sense out of all options.
VOTE: geraintm

[AliceK]

I think Alice should say what their modifier is.

Even...

[AliceK]

Like why didn’t Alice die?

Could be that Mafia knows my exact role. Also Anya had 0% chance to get lynched.

[AliceK]

I'm a bookend-vig, I can only shoot on night 1 and the night before 3p ELo

How does it work? You can shoot like this night if we make an elimination? Because with your shoot it is 3p, without it, it is 4p MeLo.

[AliceK]

I'm a bookend-vig, I can only shoot on night 1 and the night before 3p ELo

How does it work? You can shoot like this night if we make an elimination? Because with your shoot it is 3p, without it, it is 4p MeLo.

If the game can enter 3p ELo without my shot that night, I can shoot. mod has to inform me.

So if there was a Goon, me and 3 VTs going into the night for instance, I wouldn't be able to shoot but if there was a goon, me and 2 VTs I could

Ahh, I see so that's a pretty useless ability.

[AliceK]

We have even number of players. I think we should no elim today.

[AliceK]

We should have limed gypyx yesterday. This was the exact situation I was trying to not be in.

My gut says Alice is too naive to be gambiting here, which means it is either gypyx or we are getting wolfed by someone like Luca or Norway. The fact Luca wasn't killed last night makes me pretty suspicious.

Anya was town either way, but also a nonthreat. I would assume killing talkative town members before limlo would be a bigger priority, and yet I'm here and so is Luca.

Well, I take those. Why Luca should be killed? It doesn't make sense for me.

[AliceK]

We have even number of players. I think we should no elim today.

Actually forget about it. There is a N_M claim which can give Town additional win-con. But if there is Mafia Vig or Mafia PGO that will be sad.

[AliceK]

We should have limed gypyx yesterday. This was the exact situation I was trying to not be in.

My gut says Alice is too naive to be gambiting here, which means it is either gypyx or we are getting wolfed by someone like Luca or Norway. The fact Luca wasn't killed last night makes me pretty suspicious.

Anya was town either way, but also a nonthreat. I would assume killing talkative town members before limlo would be a bigger priority, and yet I'm here and so is Luca.

Well, I take those. Why Luca should be killed? It doesn't make sense for me.

Luca is a discussion driver and has been able to influence the game state. That makes him more dangerous during the day if he is town.

You forgot that Mafia have limited number of kills. They have 2 kills that matters. At P7 and at P5. At P3 it is a game over, they just need to kill anyone for parity. Anya was confirmed Town and N_M is pretty much confirmed Town. Killing Luca would lead to a situation where you have 1 confirmed Town in P4 instead of 0.

[AliceK]

I can go with an no lim. But it seems better to do that in Elo imo.

Yeah, sure. But Mafia could try to force a draw by not killing at P4.

[AliceK]

I can go with an no lim. But it seems better to do that in Elo imo.

Yeah, sure. But Mafia could try to force a draw by not killing at P4.

standart rule is that mafia lose if they stall the game by not making kills i think

OK, that's what I wanted to know. OK. Then it is fine for me to elim today.

[AliceK]

My intuition says it's Norwegianboy, but time will show. I will likely go for Gypyx today.

[AliceK]

My intuition says it's Norwegianboy, but time will show. I will likely go for Gypyx today.

Intuition is based on what?

That if scum agenda was to bus Geroge you were the one executing it. It could be very tempting to bus George, because he was inactive and likely go down D1, D2.

[AliceK]

My intuition says it's Norwegianboy, but time will show. I will likely go for Gypyx today.

Intuition is based on what?

That if scum agenda was to bus Geroge you were the one executing it. It could be very tempting to bus George, because he was inactive and likely go down D1, D2.

Then i also bussed Iconeum.

Yeah, you need to be very arrogant to do that Are you? I think I could do that.

[AliceK]

Idk of we gonna elim anyone else than gypyx.

[AliceK]

OK, if he doesn't flip scum we will have another day to figure this out
VOTE: gypyx

[AliceK]

Nicely played. GG.