DEFCON Mafia 5.0: GAME OVER - NEW AMERICA FORMED

[Et Al]

fwiw I am very jealous at SS and may be considering sending nukes his way

no u

VOTE: FOR

we haven't worked out signing yet, are people going to be annoyed if we sign with "-S" and "-s"?

-S_S

[Et Al]

okay we've got our signing figured out, I can do this and skitter will use a tilde so that people can still control-F one signature or the other in our ISO

now to figure out the avatar...

-S

[Et Al]

I was talking to everyone :X Signing information is relevant!

Anyway we're done with that stuff, it's all taken care of now.

-S

[Et Al]

Buy us dinner first.

(But seriously, can you not? You're making me feel bad for finding a way to let skitter play when she otherwise wouldn't have been able to.)

-S

[Et Al]

I’m preeeeeetty sure he’s not talking about you guys

Maybe not, but it's still rude :/

-S

[Et Al]

Well, I guess we can take comfort in being the less annoying hydra

Also, in case anyone missed it in the signup thread, I'll just mention it again: this hydra is going to be mostly me, because skitter is pretty busy and won't always be able to keep up.

-S

[Et Al]

-

Gonna say you probably shouldn't do this.

-S

[Et Al]

NUKING HYDRAS = TWO FOR THE PRICE OF ONE

Two American deaths, you mean.

-S

[Et Al]

Heya everyone
Hopefully this wont move too fast >.>

I think gorilla is town, maybe pooky town
I got very, very, very gutscum pings from equinox
Not sure i like mena/ali thus far

Not sure i like mastina's readslist either
~ skitter

[Et Al]

Not sure i like mena/ali thus far

I wouldn’t tbh

That ain't helping
Is that mena or ali

Not sure i like mastina's readslist either
~ skitter

Et Al (Skitter/SS)
scum.

I wonder why?

Yes, exactly

~ skitter

[Et Al]

Gotta say that avi is super disconcerting too
~ skitter

[Et Al]

I think u might be scum >.>
I really hope not

But uh you're not inspiring confidence thus far

~ skitter

[Et Al]

And Et Al is my largest scumread because it is the hydra I would expect to be the towniest slot in the game--skitter is a bloody paragon, both having won the award and being at that level to receive nominations multiple consecutive years. I would expect her to, very quickly, radiate town. She hasn't. But more than that, Something_Smart also is someone I would expect to see town in if he were town. I'm not seeing it. In fact what I'm seeing reminds me of scum-S_S.

A) i feel compelled to point out that i havent won paragon
B) i literally hadnt posted yet at the time you posted this read, so i would love to hear more abt how u determined i wasnt 'radiating towniness' from my posting
C) i retract the pooky townread and/or i can see a universe where pooky is scum with mastina

~ skitter

[Et Al]

I think u might be scum >.>

y tho

You're doing the thing where u orient around me

~ skitter

[Et Al]

I think samantha might be town

Elaborate?

-S

[Et Al]

But more than that, Something_Smart also is someone I would expect to see town in if he were town. I'm not seeing it. In fact what I'm seeing reminds me of scum-S_S.

I'm on it, but you're gonna need to give me more time than this.

-S

[Et Al]

I am dead serious about instanuking gorilla if I wind up picking silo

Please don't

-S

[Et Al]

THE ONLY THING TRUE AMERICANS DO IS ORIENT THEIR NUKES TOWARDS THE SKY AND LET GOD DECIDE THE REST

I chuckled.

-S

[Et Al]

I bet pooky leaves his silo in ABM mode all game

Ultra bait

Oh yeah I should mention

Don't do this, basically ever. UT won the last game because he did it and managed to convince people that it was a town blunder.

-S

[Et Al]

I liking defiant note in writing

Defiance is usually towny, yes, but knowing samantha's personality and knowing that she voted against Total War without realizing she was the one who killed it, I could see her trying to project confidence as scum rather than admitting to a mistake and possibly receiving heat for that.

-S

[Et Al]

speaking of last game can anyone link any past games

The last run.

It was a hot minute ago. Featuring me being a dumbass but somehow managing to piss off the cop enough to make him claim even though it was clearly wrong, among other things.

-S

[Et Al]

Wait why is this a scum move inherently tho?

Fewer town-controlled kills. If UT had gone into attack mode they could have used his nuke to get an extra kill for free, and that extra kill would probably have landed on him.

-S

[Et Al]

Ya probably, it wouldn't be the first time they were scum and they started the game that way.

It was a c/p from her first post in the previous game, though...

-S

[Et Al]

I keep thinking skitter is posting when ali posts and then I get all excited

You better not do this every time

I

post or you are going to be disappointed

Just expect me and then be pleasantly surprised when it's actually skitter and she actually has reads

-S

[Et Al]

I love skitter contributions. They're so reliable and having skitter in a game is like being able to check my answers on a test. I love it.

ikr, why do you think I wanted to hydra with her

-S

[Et Al]

if there's a conflict with drafts (i.e. two or more people want the same troop) than whoever submits the PM to the mod first gets it. lmao.

wait what

that is a change from the previous run and also is just really really bad and unfair to people in different time zones from the mod (and also Cakez said that the setup did not change from the previous run with the exception of eavesdropper being maybe removed)

@mod can you explain how troops are distributed in case of a tie, and can you also let us know any other rules that have changed since the last run?

-S

[Et Al]

Agreed on both points.

-S

[Et Al]

DEFCON 5 = voting on total war
DEFCON 4 = drafting troops (PR's)
DEFCON 3 = Day 1. Regular execution, no nukes, SK kill, no scum kill.
DEFCON 2 = Day 2. Regular execution, no nukes, SK kill, scum kill.
DEFCON 1 = Day 3 on to the rest of the game. There's an execution still (and factional kills), but also nukes.

-S

[Et Al]

Well, you aren't the first to give out reads.

-S

[Et Al]

A blank post would have been more informative.

You got a read off it, so this seems blatantly wrong to me?

-S

[Et Al]

I feel good about Cephrir town, at first I was like nah, but then when I saw him react to Gorilla and I was like, yeh.

This is referring to 90?

-S

[Et Al]

86, 90. I might have misinterpreted on 86, I interpreted it as Cephrir calling gorilla a dumb ass which is the same sort of pattern that my initial reaction to Gorilla is.

As Ceph pointed out you did misinterpret it yes. But also your comment on him seems pretty similar to mastina's which is interesting. What did you guys dislike so much about his opening?

-S

[Et Al]

Oh I'm talking about Ceph, sorry that wasn't clear. 234 implies you didn't like Ceph's opening, is that true?

-S

[Et Al]

LAMIST

Which is clearly NAI in this case, so why bring it up?

-S

[Et Al]

Projected confidence in what? That how nice I am is unrelated to the color of my role PM?

I am fairly confident in that.

-S

[Et Al]

I SMELL ONLY FEAR WHEN SOMETHINGSCUM TALKS

You must be really bad at reading emotion then.

Btw, I would like to get normalpooky back before long. I could probably use his support given that a lot of people here have stale or no experience with me (stale being arguably worse).

-S

[Et Al]

What did you think I was doing in 266 and 273?

I mean I'm being more snarky than I could be, so if you think it's inhibiting comprehension, I can tone it down. But I feel like I've been engaging with the claims that I objected to (such as yours, and earlier mastina's).

-S

[Et Al]

Yes, I'm aware, it's evidently not clear to you.

Why do you think I would expect to be townread for that?

-S

[Et Al]

I thought that you were responding to concerns about your alignment with what essentially amounted to “you’re obviously wrong, duuuh! Why are you even saying that?”

Well, yes and no. Yes because that is what I'm saying, but I still feel like that qualifies as engaging, because I'm inviting people to talk more about the thing that I disagree with them on.

The snark, as I said, was probably unnecessary. But I get scumread for playstyle things in virtually every game I play, and I'm a bit sick of it, especially since people don't tend to respond charitably to my attempts to explain otherwise (see: Nexus).

And this is because your engagement is superficial and hollow, as if you are trying to replicate what you would do as town but haven’t quite found that groove and are getting frustrated that it’s not working out.

Also, this is kinda interesting-- there's nothing in here that suggests that this behavior is more likely to be from scum than from town. I don't

feel

like my engagement is more superficial than it usually is at this stage in the game, but maybe it looks different from the outside. And so I certainly would be frustrated that it's not working out-- as either alignment. (Also, how do you know that I'm trying to

replicate

what I do as town if you've never even played with me? What makes you think this isn't just what I do as town?)

-S

[Et Al]

Fail Safe is pretty strong, at least if you are a townread player, because it can't be endgamed. But not as strong as the other four.

Air Base is also good for town, because scum are likely going to be killing in the pool of people who aren't nuking.

-S

[Et Al]

@mod will the deadline be suspended if there are slots that need replacing?

-S

[Et Al]

I backed up and asked him an actual question in 280 and he pointedly ignored it

-S

[Et Al]

a lot of it didn’t actually make much sense to me as coming from town

Can you elaborate on this? Why doesn't it seem like something town would do?

-S

[Et Al]

you found it stressful and needed something to do.

So you don't think I thought I would be townread for it? or what? If I was stressed and didn't know what to post as scum, why wouldn't I just not post anything at that particular moment?

-S

[Et Al]

Why are you so mad about it? If you were town, you'd simply have noted my criticism and moved on. The fact that you are still obsessed with trying to defend yourself is, in itself, scummy. Move on.

(a) that's a completely unfounded assumption based on how you imagine town would play, and (b) I don't even really care about defending myself, I'm trying to understand your thought process so I can read you-- and I have a leg up here, since I know that you're entirely off-base, so I can try to figure out whether I think you made an error or whether it was more malicious.

As it is, it seems like you just dropped a buzzword down and then tried to retroactively justify it, which is probably slightly +scum, but only slightly.

-S

[Et Al]

Am I missing something that makes fighter good

Denial, mostly.

Also potentially good for catching scum fakeclaiming a PR without outing that PR (not super likely to happen, but it did happen last time )

Though actually, it's probably better to just say that taking fighter is a scumclaim, because then if scum do take it they'll have to counterclaim a different troop.

-S

[Et Al]

completely shuts down mafia coordination if town gets it

As someone who was scum against an eavesdropper in the last game, no it doesn't.

-S

[Et Al]

hello i haven't really read much but i think the following people are town:
- bell
- joq
- samantha
- maybe dv but i'm not sure i know how to read him
- gorilla

i still don't like mena-ali or mastina
pooky is maybe (?) town but i'm not sure

and i don't think i have much on the rest of you

oh and i think t3 is being pushed for bad reasons

~ skitter

[Et Al]

*blinks once*

~ skitter

[Et Al]

I refuse to believe a scum Pooky can fake this.

Fake what?

-S

[Et Al]

This seems kind of superficial

Well yes.

-S

[Et Al]

Wrong again.

I mean you're welcome to explain why I "needed something to do" rather than not posting anything at that particular moment, but it seems unlikely to go anywhere.

Unless you think my entire ISO is filler, which is a very different claim.

-S

[Et Al]

It doesn't make sense that Deas would towread someone for lying about knowing what to do.

It's not necessarily a lie, though? It could just be cluelessness.

And I assumed DV's point was that cluelessness is more likely town (which I also believe).

-S

[Et Al]

He has, but you apparently aren't if you think this is scumastina.

Come on, give yourself more credit than this...

-S

[Et Al]

I know that scumastina in theory is capable of doing everything I do in my towngames. And that, in theory, any time I am town, it COULD theoretically be a return of scumastina to her prime. It's no less true this game than any of my previous towngames; this could always be a return of scumastina to her prime, at least in theory.

But I'll believe it when I actually see it.

Fair enough.

I don't think I've seen scum-you since what was probably your prime. So I guess I'll defer to the people who have. Skitter doesn't like you, but I don't think she's talked about that read at all; I'll see if I can touch base with her about it.

-S

[Et Al]

Obsessed with me.

I mean, yes. It's kind of worrying to have someone scumreading me for what seems to me to be a terrible reason and who won't engage with me at all, in a game where it only requires a single person scumreading you to kill you.

I'm trying to have an actual conversation with you. Is there some reason you don't want to do that?

-S

[Et Al]

Exactly what it sounds like: a dynamic where the users cannot be scum-scum and cannot be scum-town because if it were scum-scum they wouldn't be able to keep it up and if it were scum-town the scum would struggle to realistically keep it up in a way fooling the town.

Sure, but why on earth does this apply to these two? They each have only a few posts toward each other, and they seem to mostly reflect a non-alignment-related friendship, which wouldn't be fake even if one or both of them were scum.

-S

[Et Al]

I mean I'm trying to get you to explain this bit:

as your PM was a scum PM, you found it stressful and needed something to do.

I don't understand why I "needed something to do". Couldn't I have just not posted anything?

-S

[Et Al]

The post is just filler, but also "look im doing something"

Out of curiosity, do you make posts like that as scum?

-S

[Et Al]

sorryyyy would someone mind confirming this for meeee

Not sure exactly what you mean by "mafia playstyle", but your conception seems roughly accurate. Anyone who doesn't get a PR from the draft will get a nuke, which works as you described, though there will be two normal days before nukes can be used. Executions and NK's continue as normal.

-S

[Et Al]

So your issue with DN isn't the filler posts, but the lack of theories and hypotheses?

-S

[Et Al]

i'm still rather suspicious of mena-ali tbh

~ skitter

[Et Al]

if i had a vote rn i'd be voting them
or mastina
but ss is telling me what i'm scumreading her for isn't ai so meh

~ skitter

[Et Al]

Me (Ali) and Mena are cardinals of the Church of Skitter and we worship our God Skitter30 amen

i'm still rather suspicious of mena-ali tbh

~ skitter

SHE IS BEING HELD HOSTAGE BY SOMETHING SCUM BUT SHE STILL SIGNALS TO US WHO THE BAD GUYS ARE

PRAISE SKITTER

fwiw this sort of verbiage makes me a little bit uncomfortable
also why do u think ss is scum

~ skitter

[Et Al]

SHE IS BEING HELD HOSTAGE BY SOMETHING SCUM BUT SHE STILL SIGNALS TO US WHO THE BAD GUYS ARE

PRAISE SKITTER

Can you knock this off? Even within your shtick I don't get what this is doing except trying to set us against each other.

-S

[Et Al]

The shtick, incidentally, is also super annoying, but I imagine that you'll drop that when you feel like it regardless of what I say.

Pedit: yes, just because we're in a hydra doesn't mean we always agree on everything?

-S

[Et Al]

You're not doing anything but roleplaying, so I'm forced to.

-S

[Et Al]

Is that a serious read? If so, why?

-S

[Et Al]

I DONT LIKE HOW YOU REACTED TO NEXUS

Which post and why?

Why would I post less mechanics as scum?

-S

[Et Al]

Or, perhaps more specifically, what mechanics would you expect me to be talking about as town?

I could say which PR's are good vs bad, but that's already been covered.

I could tell people not to take certain PR's, but that wouldn't matter unless I can convince literally everyone not to take a particular PR, which I can't. (Also I'm not sure that giving scum fakeclaims is smart.)

I could tell people how to use certain roles, but I have plenty of time still to do that.

-S

[Et Al]

et al is a hydra?

Yes, see links in the sig. I (Something_Smart) am responsible for most of the posts (I sign with -S). Skitter30 signs with ~skitter.

-S

[Et Al]

YOU SHOULD BE TRYING TO FIND BAD GUYS AND NOT SO SCARED OF NEXUS

I mean I was trying to understand what Nexus was arguing so that I (and others) could read him, I wasn't just questioning him for shits and giggles. I don't really know what else you would call "trying to find the bad guys"; it's not like my scumreading faculties are especially keen in the early game. You should know this.

And re: mech, I also wasn't really around when the mech discussions were happening. I don't tend to post that stuff unsolicited. And iirc I usually talk mechanics way more in the lategame than the early game, even in an open setup. So I don't think it's THAT weird.

-S

[Et Al]

fwiw i also scumread pooky at this point and think the way he's approaching this game is very scum motivated

~ skitter

[Et Al]

That's definitely the most productive way to handle an early-game scumread on a strong player.

-S

[Et Al]

how hes literally protecting the homeland

he's not reading me, but rather electing to read ss, which in the context of the many, many, many games i've played with him, is very strange in that he *usually* tries to read me and work with me p fast, but isn't trying to work with me at all here, and i've tried to get him to a couple of times now
he's decidedly ignoring me and what i'm saying, and instead is just calling ss scum, and is now pre-emptively using that as justification for lolnuking us later on

if pooky is scum i'm p sure this is how scum is neutralizing our slot: ignoring my head, repeatedly calling ss scum for very meh reasons, and using that to nuke us later

~ skitter

[Et Al]

that's fine
would like to emphasize this point cuz i'm having a hard time seeing town-pooky approaching this game (i.e. particularly my slot) the way he is rn

~ skitter

[Et Al]

I guess what bothers me about that post is how vanilla it is. It's plain and verges on pointing out the obvious.

This is about 730?

-S

[Et Al]

Ali, skitter wants to know what you think about her read on Pooky.

-S

[Et Al]

This feels like a rather flippant and reductive dismissal of my reasoning.

It read like it was making fun of samantha to me.

Though, I do have a similar view on "there are X scum in Y group" statements and gamestate proclamations about how active/inactive scum are probably being.

-S

[Et Al]

Ali, skitter wants to know what you think about her read on Pooky.

-S

SKITTERS READ ON ME IS SURFACE LEVEL

K ur scum
I would also like to reiterate that i am finding ali-mena to be incredibly off and i think they might be scum too

~ skitter

[Et Al]

if pooky is scum i'm p sure this is how scum is neutralizing our slot: ignoring my head, repeatedly calling ss scum for very meh reasons, and using that to nuke us later

Plz note that when we flip town i called this and push pooky, ty ^

~ skitter

[Et Al]

- i'm marveling at the fact you're calling me 'desperate'
- its fairly clear where you're going with this, you're not engagign with me, and i dont fully understand how the nuke mechanic works anyways so i'm just covering my bases

~ skitter

[Et Al]

Ali can u ask mena what he thinks abt my pooky read btw

~ skitter

[Et Al]

- that doesn't adequately address my concern and you know it
- ss actually has and thinks my theory is plausible so i'm really not worried abt 'jumping to random conclusions', ty

~ skitter

[Et Al]

K pooky we dont really have to do this, i believe i made my point, and you're not responding to anything i'm saying in good faith, so

~ skitter

[Et Al]

Right, and scum can lolnuke whoever they want too, that's my point, that you're building up to lolnuking us for very meh reasons when i dont think this is how u approach this slot as town

And good talk! Later

Pedit i know that nukes are dayvigs i meant that i dont remmeber what the other thing was (silo?) or how they interact with each other. i know the basic premise but not all the details

And dont worry i dont think you're angry

~ skitter

[Et Al]

YOU DONT NEED THREAD CONTROL OR SUPPORT TO ELIMINATE YOUR SCUM READS

Like my point is that on the flip side scum can use this mechanic to flip whoever they want if they think they can get away with it, and i'm positing ur building up to doing just that, in a way i think is scum indicative (namely, that you have been ignoring me/my head while trying to sort this slot while calling as scum and indicating u want to flip us when i'm p sure town-you reads this slot thru me and wouldnt chance flipping town-me this way)

~ skitter

[Et Al]

i scumread et al

y

-S

[Et Al]

i’m p sure pooky always flips town this game which is a relief because i rarely feel like i can say that and i’m sick of being paranoid about my homies every game

To be clear, this is an independent read, and not based on the fact that you scumread us and don't think we are S/S with him, right?

Can you give us the tl;dr?

-S

[Et Al]

That's weird Vax, I got a different message from that post

I AM NOT ANG

R

Y AT YOU BTW I AM J

U

ST STUCK ON ALL CAP

S

BECAUSE I HAVE TO PROVE MY PINKIE I

S

AN AMER

I

CAN PINKIE TH

A

T DOES NOT GET SORE FROM HOLDING DOWN THE SHIFT KEY

-S

[Et Al]

i think marry and pooky if scum together don't do this husband wife thing i could be wrong but it's pretty ballsy

It seems pretty similar to the heavy flirting that Pooky and Kanna did as scum in the Team Mafia large theme. (Though, they did know each other already, but I don't think it's out of the question for how Pooky operates as scum.)

-S

[Et Al]

How's that a town slip?

-S

[Et Al]

it’s both; when i’m home i’ll quote the post that i thought was logically sound from pooky, but in general i don’t think he points out some of the things he does as scum because it backs him into a corner

Right, Pooky-scum never backs himself into a corner, that would be ridiculous.

Fwiw I think this read would be dead-on if use on, like, 95% of players, but Pooky has a really ballsy scumgame. How much does this read take meta into account?

THAT SAID, I do think he's right that he isn't setting up to nuke us and get away with it because we'd always nuke him back. I think if he's scum he's just antagonizing us for the hell of it and/or because he thinks it will look towny.

-S

[Et Al]

Why would scum!pooky care how ppl take his town reads? He could have just continued to post in the same manner. It was a glimpse of the real pooky.

I guess?

I mean as scum he could be trying to keep himself from having to commit to townreads which would enable him to reverse his reads if he found it convenient.

-S

[Et Al]

i don't think pooky has posted anything alignment indicative

THAT certainly is a hot take.

-S

[Et Al]

did kanna and pooky know each other before hand

did marry and pooky know each other before hand

I mean marry's clearly the type to warm up to someone quickly. If someone is willing to come into a game where they know nobody and start roleplaying so hard it bleeds into their game content, they're probably willing to pull a hard-buddying tactic with a partner.

-S

[Et Al]

Et and Joqiza, who's scum?

Skitter thinks Pooky, mastina, and Church are scummy.

As previously mentioned I don't really agree with her about mastina. Pooky is obviously a point of contention, we'll keep people updated wrt that read since it's likely to be volatile. Church scumread I think I can vibe with; they haven't been overtly scummy but their posting has felt pretty off compared to what we would expect from them.

-S

[Et Al]

Prism, how can you tell how natural their reads are? They've hardly explained any of them.

-S

[Et Al]

(Also, why is disagreeing with you on a single read reason to suspect someone? Town get reads wrong all the time, and it's not like Church is particularly LHF or a safe push.)

-S

[Et Al]

Skitter's read is mostly on Ali, I think. And what you don't think skitter would be incorrectly scumreading Mena, even at this early point?

-S

[Et Al]

You don't have to be sarcastic, I was just asking for a bit of elaboration on what the skitter/Menalque dynamic was. Because I have played with both a lot, and they don't always have correct reads on each other.

-S

[Et Al]

And skitter just confirmed that the read is based on Ali's content, not Mena's, anyway.

-S

[Et Al]

P-Edit: It's a player in the Et Al hydra and a separate hydra, Church of Skitter, run by two simps

Prism explained it better than I ever could have.

-S

[Et Al]

What exactly do u expect?

I mean Mena is definitely capable of obvtowning and powertowning. As for Ali well I guess I'm used to you being a bit less comfortable? Like you're throwing out lukewarm reads and asking lukewarm questions but I feel like you usually struggle more to form reads and attract more attention, and then respond to that attention in a genuine way.

Hard to articulate, obviously. And maybe I'm just biased by a few games where you got pressured early.

Skitter said that your posting seems shallow and feels more genuine when you're town. I guess that's probably getting at a similar thing.

-S

[Et Al]

Well it seems kinda baffling that Titus would just nope out of two entire game days. Maybe she didn't realize that it would be that long?

-S

[Et Al]

I mean, you'll have votes to work with long before the nukes start to fly.

Would be nice for whoever's holding up DEFCON 3 to stop doing that.

-S

[Et Al]

HOW DOES IT MAKE SENSE FOR SCUM ME TO LOL NUKE YOU AND YOU LOL NUKE ME BACK

idk. how ur approahcing my slot doesn't make sense to me tho coming from town

skitter does pooky ever lolnuke you of all people?

never

~ skitter

[Et Al]

okay i want to kill et al LMAO

they’re so frustrated with pooky but i see no reason for them to be that way like rp gimmicks are annoying

but i can actually see them malding over him right now

and idgi when they can just missile silo him, like in this setup you are guaranteed a way to kill off someone

let me check something

i don't care abt the gimmick (i.e. that has little to do with how i'm reading him) and idk what the bolded means
i still think he's scum

~ skitter

[Et Al]

What exactly do u expect?

I mean Mena is definitely capable of obvtowning and powertowning. As for Ali well I guess I'm used to you being a bit less comfortable? Like you're throwing out lukewarm reads and asking lukewarm questions but I feel like you usually struggle more to form reads and attract more attention, and then respond to that attention in a genuine way.

Hard to articulate, obviously. And maybe I'm just biased by a few games where you got pressured early.

Skitter said that your posting seems shallow and feels more genuine when you're town. I guess that's probably getting at a similar thing.

-S

i mean ur not wrong. Most of the time it is pretty hard for me to get myself engaged in games. Most of the time a lot of the things u mentioned come from a lack of focus so I’m trying to give this game just a bit more attention than I usually do.

Me and skitter generally seem on the same page when it comes to most of our reads and the fact this is a concern for u probably means skitter is town.

this post, especially the bolded, is utterly baffling to me and i don't get how you're coming to the conclusion that i'm town here off of what you say here
~ skitter

[Et Al]

idk. how ur approahcing my slot doesn't make sense to me tho coming from town

LETS PRETEND FOR A SECOND THAT IM TOWN

AND YOUR TOWN

AND I WANT YOU TO NOT DIE

HOW WOULD I DO THAT SKITTER

i'm gonna be honest i haven't any idea >.>

~ skitter

[Et Al]

I'm not sure if Pooky is town but like, I'm also not exactly sure if he's scum either. I don't think I am going to actually get a read on him right now.

@ali i was kinda under the impression that your pooky read was like, nullness/unsureness

when did he become a scumread?

and can you refresh me on your townreads?

~ skitter

[Et Al]

if that's what you were doing that was not at all obvious to me >.>

~ skitter

[Et Al]

I DONT WANT HER TO BE STUCK ON "POOKY MUST BE SCUM BECAUSE HE IS INTERACTING WITH ME IN A WAY THAT I DONT UNDERSTAND"

and yes i would have been stuck on that

~ skitter

[Et Al]

>.>

pedit i think u

[Et Al]

sorry

[Et Al]

sorry

probably should not have jumped to the conclusion 'doesn't understand' == 'scum'
but i also don't know if i would have gotten out of that otherwise

~ skitter

[Et Al]

hope everything is going well for mena

~ skitter

[Et Al]

I DONT WANT HER TO BE STUCK ON "POOKY MUST BE SCUM BECAUSE HE IS INTERACTING WITH ME IN A WAY THAT I DONT UNDERSTAND"

Don't you? I thought the whole point of the plan was to make it seem like we were scumreading each other.

-S

[Et Al]

I mean... how were you expecting her to respond? "Yep Pooky's definitely scum, let's just ignore him for two days while he shits up the thread"?

-S

[Et Al]

But it's not like thinking you're scum is an on/off switch that we can just flip and then be satisfied... and there are two very important days that need to be played before any nuking is possible. It's not like we were just going to decide you were scum for sure and stop thinking about you-- did you really think that's what we'd do?

(Plus, it was 36 hours into DEFCON 4 when you said that, so why would you think we hadn't submitted our draft yet?)

-S

[Et Al]

Pooky does it make sense to u why i was scumreading u?
I.e. given how u were behaving were u expecting me to scumread u there?

~ skitter

[Et Al]

I DONT EVEN KNOW WHAT YOU ARE TRYING TO ARGUE AT THIS POINT SO THIS CONVERSATION IS PROBABLY POINTLESS

I'm not trying to argue anything. I'm trying to understand why you aborted your plan, what went differently from how you expected and why you didn't expect it.

I'm having a hard time believe that us trying to solve your alignment is not the reaction you expected from this. Isn't that, like, the most obvious response?

-S

[Et Al]

What did you think she would do between now and DEFCON 1?

-S

[Et Al]

I mean you literally were talking about what you wanted to happen when you fake-tunneled us, so I should hope you had some expectations about the future?

-S

[Et Al]

Also, what's your read on us?

-S

[Et Al]

between now and DEFCON 1

-S

[Et Al]

I DONT WANT HER TO BE STUCK ON "POOKY MUST BE SCUM BECAUSE HE IS INTERACTING WITH ME IN A WAY THAT I DONT UNDERSTAND"

Well you said this, which implies you must have wanted her to do something else regarding you. What was that?

-S

[Et Al]

Mm.

Just because you wouldn't lolnuke doesn't mean the read is fake, though.

-S

[Et Al]

It's wearing me out too ._.

-S

[Et Al]

Think of it as payback for us not knowing why you've done anything, all game.

-S

[Et Al]

Well, in that case.

You wanted skitter to realize your read was bullshit, but still nuke you when DEFCON 1 hit?

-S

[Et Al]

DEFCON 5 and 4 are like 97% shit posts.

Not in this case.

-S

[Et Al]

We're basically in honorary DEFCON 3.

-S

[Et Al]

IN MY DEFENSE I THOUGHT THIS IS WHAT WE HAD TO DO AND THE SLOWEST PEOPLE GOT SILO. I WAS QUITE SLOW.

townslip or no?

-S

[Et Al]

I don't see her as particularly annoying or intolerable this game. If you think she has more scum equity than usual, sure, but the idea we should preemptively policy her for gamehealth in a game where she is doing nothing wrong is disgusting to me.

+1

-S

[Et Al]

I have a lot of experience w/ mastina she’s probably scum

Elaborate?

-S

[Et Al]

kinda towny for samantha to be like "Yeah. Let's not nuke and just play mafia."

Not sure about that. Nukes are probably scarier for scum than votes because they have less of a chance to misdirect and operate as a team.

-S

[Et Al]

i meant like, going against the status quo for something that clearly wasn't going to happen

what status quo

her vote against was literally the first post of the game

-S

[Et Al]

I'm cool with a mastina execution. I don't have a reason for it other than being in the same bin as Titus. I was ranked consistently low on mastina's reads, which seemed odd to me considering my near non-existent presence in due D5 and D4. That's a lot of people to read as townier over a non-poster. That has nothing to do with her alignment or my lack of read on the slot, but if I'm that low on her list just because, I might be a bit spiteful and feel like eliminating her slot.

Towny, I think, at least if mastina is town.

-S

[Et Al]

It's basically a formality/something to do while people are confirming. I'm sure the designers intended for it to never actually pass.

And I think it's a good thing, because while launching lots of nukes is +town, forcing people to actually sit down and think about the game before they do it is also +town. (Which, incidentally, is why I hate this mastina flashwagon, regardless of my own read on her.)

-S

[Et Al]

Also, this feels like a good juncture to say: try very hard to not recall your nukes. If a claim would make you want to recall it, ask for the claim before you fire it. If someone goes incredibly obvtown after getting nuked, then it's justified, but make sure plenty of people agree with you that the reaction was obvtown. Otherwise you're just sacrificing town-controlled kills.

-S

[Et Al]

IF YOU SET YOUR MISSLE TO DEFENSE MODE AND I FIND OUT ABOUT IT YOU ARE GETTING DOUBLE NUKED.

^This too. Don't do it.

-S

[Et Al]

i didn't read this post until just now and i literally burst out
laughing

yep it's a quality post

-S

[Et Al]

oh sick that narrows it down to *checks notes* pretty much everyone

this is probably a > rand response to come from someone who knows it's false

not that it's unlikely to come from town but it's about what I would expect from scum

-S

[Et Al]

we're.......mean

yup

you bullied one (possibly two) slots out of the game

-S

[Et Al]

oh also, how the fuck do i have an "i always push mastina" habit.

I mean, your argument that mastina always ruins games and should be policy'd doesn't really make sense unless you do. So it's a pretty reasonable assumption.

-S

[Et Al]

Haven't been this confident in a scumread in a long time tbh.

On Mognet?

If so, why does Mognet's joqiza case being bad make them scummy?

-S

[Et Al]

Et al, are you still scum?

Nope we got culted overnight

-S

[Et Al]

There is something I believe I should disclose but I'm not sure what the correct strategy is.

If it's not an Espionage guilty, don't.

-S

[Et Al]

Oh mate, have you been waiting for me to post to try and discredit me to show your towniness?

yep, I know that lurking for 12 hours and then discrediting people who scumread me is the surest way to get everyone to townread me. you've definitely seen through my plan, which by the way makes tons of sense and will totally work.

-S

[Et Al]

trying to buddy up to obvious town

I'm no expert but this sounds like something town would want to do, no?

-S

[Et Al]

in 4.0 tried to draft eavesdropper and missed out on it

*Espionage

-S

[Et Al]

Bunch of cowards going for Pooks.

townslip?

-S

[Et Al]

S stands for Something_Smart?

Yep

-S

[Et Al]

Saw it, he would have had to entirely ignore the conversations this day phase before saying it.

Which would be pretty consistent with how he's posted thus far.

-S

[Et Al]

hello i still think church is scummy
and vax is townie, idk what deasvail is going on abt

~ skitter

[Et Al]

Also, did your grandpa wake you up to go to the bathroom too or do you live in australia?

You forgot option C: I live in the US and have a really screwed-up sleep schedule.

-S

[Et Al]

I think Titus cast a chainsaw spell unless she can explain her vote. What say you Trenchcoat Kupo?

why would you vote us over Titus because of something that Titus did?

-S

[Et Al]

This also reads really forced.

How many people do you know who would force something like this

Not many, I'd bet.

-S

[Et Al]

And if she is not chainsawing because she is town then you’re still a scumread.

Sure, that's reasonable. I was just thrown off because the positioning of your vote in between comments made me think that the vote was related to the comments.

-S

[Et Al]

I think anything that fits this criteria should be pushed.

What Titus did doesn't fit the criteria, though. The criteria require defending someone by attacking their attacker; Titus never defended us anywhere. There's no reason to believe that her vote on Nexus is related to Nexus's vote on us.

-S

[Et Al]

The vote is the defense.

How do you know?

-S

[Et Al]

How do you define "defense"?

-S

[Et Al]

I want Robert Hunter dead today.

Is this despite understanding his crumb, or because you understood it, or despite not understanding it?

-S

[Et Al]

It is a small town game. Anyone can have any role. I don't care about crumbs or roles. I think they are not town.

Just because anyone can have any role does not mean that people can't play their role in an alignment-indicative way.

Did you understand the crumb?

-S

[Et Al]

The terrorist does not pick first. They pick their normal role alongside everyone else.

They also get a free choice, but that can duplicate another role. If they claim that they will be counterclaimed.

-S

[Et Al]

I wasn't looking for crumbs either. It was very obvious.

-S

[Et Al]

Yes.

And iirc at least a few people said that it was obvious.

-S

[Et Al]

we all voted for total war except samantha

this is quite an inaccurate characterization. samantha killed total war almost as soon as the game opened.

-S

[Et Al]

pretty quickly people who were familiar with mastina's meta scumread her and pushed on her, to varying degrees of confidence and agreement. the consensus of the scumread was essentially mastina's playstyle was easily readable for players here to her being scum, and her readlist and general posting was unnecessarily long + fake.

This also feels inaccurate, honestly. LLD, the primary pusher of the mastina wagon, argued that mastina should be killed because her playstyle was anti-town (and also because she thought she was scum, but that was secondary).

-S

[Et Al]

I mean, at least portray them as equal. I scumread Mastina first before I went on that crusade, lol.

Maybe, but at least to me it didn't feel like they were equal.

-S

[Et Al]

Et Al (Skitter30/Something_Smart) - Actually I have no idea what skitter is thinking right now. Maybe that just says so much about how I'm just so out of tune with whats going on?

I think it's more that she's out of tune. She hasn't been able to keep up.

I have been keeping up, but the recent pages have mostly just been making my stomach crawl, so I can't say I want to discuss them in detail.

-S