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Post Post #1870 (isolation #200) » Fri Apr 23, 2021 4:29 am

Post by VP Baltar »

In other news, I'm starting to agree that one of Ico and Luca are scum, with a lean toward Ico.
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Post Post #1872 (isolation #201) » Fri Apr 23, 2021 4:36 am

Post by VP Baltar »

In post 1871, Datisi wrote:
In post 1870, VP Baltar wrote:In other news, I'm starting to agree that one of Ico and Luca are scum, with a lean toward Ico.
who are you agreeing *with* here? or who said that rather
I don't think anyone said it together I guess. People have variously mentioned either person. Ico, less...that's more coming from me.

I just think both of their postings in this last series have been strange.
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Post Post #1880 (isolation #202) » Fri Apr 23, 2021 5:11 am

Post by VP Baltar »

George could still flip scum here, who knows. He didn't claim or offer anything of value after being yeeted
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Post Post #1883 (isolation #203) » Fri Apr 23, 2021 5:27 am

Post by VP Baltar »

Haha. I like that story.

Well I guess I was right about the consensus George hate being an easy position for scum earlier in the day
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Post Post #1902 (isolation #204) » Sun Apr 25, 2021 3:52 pm

Post by VP Baltar »

In post 1900, innocentvillager wrote:really bizarre vigilante shot
Who was the vig exactly?
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Post Post #1903 (isolation #205) » Sun Apr 25, 2021 3:54 pm

Post by VP Baltar »

VOTE: Iconeum

I spent a good amount of time going over people's votes on George to see who looked natural and who did not. I feel fairly confident Ico is scum here. Datisi kill doesn't help.
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Post Post #1908 (isolation #206) » Sun Apr 25, 2021 4:09 pm

Post by VP Baltar »

In post 1905, innocentvillager wrote:do you still want to kill Anya, vpb?
I wouldn't say she was cleared entirely by the dueling wagons, but I'm not interested in yeeting her today.
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Post Post #1911 (isolation #207) » Sun Apr 25, 2021 4:11 pm

Post by VP Baltar »

In post 1907, innocentvillager wrote:i mean we can probably win this on dayplay right? there's gotta be scum in {Ico, NM, maybe Luca} right?
How many scum you think in that pool?
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Post Post #1914 (isolation #208) » Sun Apr 25, 2021 4:13 pm

Post by VP Baltar »

In post 1913, innocentvillager wrote:i mean ideally 2?
Two with a maybe? Wow.
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Post Post #1922 (isolation #209) » Sun Apr 25, 2021 4:20 pm

Post by VP Baltar »

I think this is definitely winnable through day play. I'll do some Datisi rereading tomorrow probs. Mostly I think Ico wanted that kill though.

If you ISO Ico, you will also see some waffling around picking Anya vs George. No real hard push for either and then finally tips over onto George when it looks likely to happen.
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Post Post #1923 (isolation #210) » Sun Apr 25, 2021 4:20 pm

Post by VP Baltar »

In post 1921, Luca Blight wrote:George, Icon, gypyx would be my guess for the team rn
This is not a terrible guess.
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Post Post #1925 (isolation #211) » Sun Apr 25, 2021 4:39 pm

Post by VP Baltar »

In post 1740, Iconeum wrote:
In post 1738, Wooper wrote:fun side note, ico is still voting anya
fun fact

anya can still take the yeet
In post 1748, Iconeum wrote:VOTE: GB

anya's recent posting is someting she can hopefully keep up
GB is just blatantly stalling at this point, doing jack shit. If this is town, then it's not a bad yeet anyway

If I had time i'd probably push Luca here while hiding behind wooper, but weekend vla is soonish and deadline etc

I'll take that fight tomorrow if there's a chance
There are exactly zero George or Anya posts between these two posts from Ico.
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Post Post #1996 (isolation #212) » Mon Apr 26, 2021 2:27 am

Post by VP Baltar »

In post 1995, Luca Blight wrote:So far all Icon has done today is say why he's not scum

I'd like to see some actual reads/thoughts soon
This basically.

Also, NM being vig makes sense because I would have shot NM given the chance. Luv u, boo <3
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Post Post #1998 (isolation #213) » Mon Apr 26, 2021 3:03 am

Post by VP Baltar »

In post 1997, Not_Mafia wrote:
In post 1991, AliceK wrote:
In post 1971, Iconeum wrote:
In post 1969, Not_Mafia wrote:I'm the vig
ok

who'd you shoot
@N_M Can you confirm who you shot? (I am 99% sure it was Wooper, but confirm pls)
Yeah
why wooper over your top scum read of Luca?
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Post Post #2000 (isolation #214) » Mon Apr 26, 2021 3:20 am

Post by VP Baltar »

In post 1999, Not_Mafia wrote:They were both scumreads
Did you go back over wooper after the George flip?
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Post Post #2005 (isolation #215) » Mon Apr 26, 2021 3:47 am

Post by VP Baltar »

Who do you think is scum now NM?
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Post Post #2009 (isolation #216) » Mon Apr 26, 2021 4:11 am

Post by VP Baltar »

In post 2006, Not_Mafia wrote:Luca
Sigh.
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Post Post #2013 (isolation #217) » Mon Apr 26, 2021 4:35 am

Post by VP Baltar »

In post 2012, Not_Mafia wrote:
In post 2009, VP Baltar wrote:
In post 2006, Not_Mafia wrote:Luca
Sigh.
What?
I don't get the sense you reevaluated your reads at all after the flip, and that bad shot erased our D1 gains.
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Post Post #2018 (isolation #218) » Mon Apr 26, 2021 4:56 am

Post by VP Baltar »

In post 2016, innocentvillager wrote:
In post 1986, geraintm wrote:1st, im goign to have to stop this "scum never get eliminated day 1" thing
i mean you can (at least partially) thank me for that

we were going to kill anya then i started yelling about how about something felt off and tbh partly using your logic of "town is just going apathy kill anya today", then people started going over to george

literally im only ever scum if you think im exactly scum with Anya and diverted over to my other scumbuddy george
While I agree you griped about the Anya wagon, I think you are giving yourself too much credit on George happening. You were not voting either and were somewhat actively trying to get a policy on NM, weren't you?
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Post Post #2031 (isolation #219) » Mon Apr 26, 2021 6:53 am

Post by VP Baltar »

In post 2019, innocentvillager wrote:datisi and vpb also both thought George's rxn was towny
I expressly said I could still see him flipping scum based on his reaction...so no I did not find him townie post hammer that I recall.

Datisi pushed back when I said that, and I sort of took his word that he knew better than me.
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Post Post #2032 (isolation #220) » Mon Apr 26, 2021 6:57 am

Post by VP Baltar »

In post 2020, innocentvillager wrote:
In post 2018, VP Baltar wrote:While I agree you griped about the Anya wagon, I think you are giving yourself too much credit on George happening. You were not voting either and were somewhat actively trying to get a policy on NM, weren't you?
like i said im better at the defense part. there are people who are better at the offense part. The offense wouldn't have happened without the defense. i did end up voting george after i was pushed by you to pick Anya or George.
I need to reread, but I feel like you are overstating your importance to the George yeet happening yesterday. Not saying you didn't have an effect, but I don't think you were a primary driver or anything.
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Post Post #2033 (isolation #221) » Mon Apr 26, 2021 6:59 am

Post by VP Baltar »

In post 1949, Gypyx wrote:hey sup, lemme get a seat and all, but motivation to play kinda came back so i should bring more content
Looking forward to this content imminently btw
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Post Post #2048 (isolation #222) » Mon Apr 26, 2021 10:56 am

Post by VP Baltar »

In post 2039, Gypyx wrote:may i interest you in a giraffe wagon anime gril ?

between other stuff, because of this recently (yeah i had the second half of this post written before)

->
In post 1906, innocentvillager wrote:we should also probably sheep Datisi btw bc he died.

@Datisi please channel your reads energy through to the main thread, maybe we'll be able to pick up on something.
this feels like the most "scum banking on a dead town's wrong reads" ngl

VOTE: innocentvillager
Can I get a full reads list from you gypyx with bullet point reasons for each person ?
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Post Post #2049 (isolation #223) » Mon Apr 26, 2021 2:29 pm

Post by VP Baltar »

Going to give my full take on the game because I think things have actually sorted somewhat clearly at this point already.

Town:


Not_Mafia
- hearing no counter to his vig shot, seems to be town. (There's no way a normal would put an extra killing scum's hands for a night would it?)
Geraintm
- his informed role about a strongman seems legit considering town had a roleblocker. He's either gutsy af scum, or just plain town.
Norwegian
- His push on George D1 seems pretty legit to me after I reviewed it. Could have been a preplanned bus, but I didn't get that vibe from his posting.
Luca
- He seems to be solving today. I'm not sure on the actual reasons people are saying they suspect him other than
~hand waving~
meta.

Who the heck knows:


Anya
- lol, I mean whatever. Probably town, but I've got no clue.
AliceK
- Really haven't seen any substance here yet.

All the scum are likely in this pile:


innocent villager
- Not sure if it's just style clashing here, but I didn't like his waffling on Anya and George yesterday, or his kind of overstating his importance today. IDK. Something about him is just pinging me weird. I could be wrong here though.
Gypyx
- Lots of unexplained reads throughout the game, and doesn't seem to have a clear viewpoint on the game. Not looking great. Kind of camped on George without hard pushing it.
Iconeum
- Already stated why I think this is scum.
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Post Post #2050 (isolation #224) » Mon Apr 26, 2021 2:32 pm

Post by VP Baltar »

If Iconeum or Gypyx don't flip scum, I feel like it's almost got to be IV and one of Anya/AliceK.

Norwegian could be wolfing, but that seems like a "break glass" kind of emergency consideration. I think the above breakdown is a pretty solid path to town victory with zero PR help.
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Post Post #2128 (isolation #225) » Tue Apr 27, 2021 1:57 am

Post by VP Baltar »

In post 2091, Gypyx wrote:+1 Not_Mafia - don't buy the vig claim, but that'll sort itself so it's as a "yeah i'm willing to leave em alone for now" token
Wait...you think he is lying about killing wooper?
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Post Post #2129 (isolation #226) » Tue Apr 27, 2021 2:16 am

Post by VP Baltar »

In post 2127, geraintm wrote:
In post 2100, Iconeum wrote:
In post 2085, geraintm wrote:Considering that not-mafia is the one person i am strongly town reading now (due to claim) they would be the person i would be following with their votes, i wish they were being more active.
ur gonna have a bad time if you think that a strong townread has to be correct in their reads just because you think they are town
im just playing the %s
i said day 1 that my plan was to get to day 2 seen as scum, work out who i beleived was the most towny person around and ensure that there was a 2 person little group of towniness that was around.
it is just a shame i've picked not mafia
lol I have no idea how you came up with this plan to play mafia...but it makes no sense
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Post Post #2130 (isolation #227) » Tue Apr 27, 2021 2:16 am

Post by VP Baltar »

I forgot about gypyx's crumb. I may want to force him to claim today.
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Post Post #2134 (isolation #228) » Tue Apr 27, 2021 2:29 am

Post by VP Baltar »

In post 2133, NorwegianboyEE wrote:
In post 2102, Luca Blight wrote:Norwegian, can you give me a sanity-check on the above?

It seems weird as fuck to me but maybe I'm missing something here
Tbh it didn’t really bother me? What bothered me the most was that it seemed like he was just spamming irrelevant content instead of saying things that matter like their reads and why they’ve supposedly been so townie.
I agree with this take. I didn't see (and don't see) that post as a perspective slip so much as Ico making more excuses why he isn't scum hunting at that point in the day.
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Post Post #2135 (isolation #229) » Tue Apr 27, 2021 2:30 am

Post by VP Baltar »

Norwee, it's weird that Ico & gypyx are both townreading each other, right?

Also, what's your take on IV?
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Post Post #2144 (isolation #230) » Tue Apr 27, 2021 2:55 am

Post by VP Baltar »

In post 2141, Gypyx wrote:
In post 2128, VP Baltar wrote:
In post 2091, Gypyx wrote:+1 Not_Mafia - don't buy the vig claim, but that'll sort itself so it's as a "yeah i'm willing to leave em alone for now" token
Wait...you think he is lying about killing wooper?
i think he's lying about being the vig
Can you elaborate on this without giving up the game? I'm very confused unless you are like counterclaiming.
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Post Post #2149 (isolation #231) » Tue Apr 27, 2021 2:59 am

Post by VP Baltar »

In post 2143, Gypyx wrote:i also don't think ico doubles down on breaking his meta of not bussing when he did that litterally last scumgame
Fwiw, people play against their own meta all the time. This is a bad defense.

Second, I am going to take a wild guess that when this game is over and I read the scum PT, I am going to see George Bailey begging to get bussed. That was a terrible D1 as scum and almost certainly had some intentional nose dive in there. If he didn't want to play scum or something, then he would just have his buddies bus him D1 for cred.

If Ico never usually buses, that actually makes more sense why the bus was completely awkward and easy to spot.
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Post Post #2150 (isolation #232) » Tue Apr 27, 2021 3:02 am

Post by VP Baltar »

In post 2146, Gypyx wrote:i do not claim i am the vig or anything

i just think not_mafia isn't the vig, and i don't get how y'all are just buying it without any second thoughts

pedit : yeah norwee gets it
Also, there is the fact NM wasn't the vig target. I mean, if anyone else is the vig and shot wooper over him last night, I'm going to have shit to say post game.
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Post Post #2153 (isolation #233) » Tue Apr 27, 2021 3:19 am

Post by VP Baltar »

In post 2152, Gypyx wrote:i could see reasons for a vig to not want to shoot n_m
Those reasons being?

Also, based on your scum list, your guess at a solve is IV + one of Anya/Alice?
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Post Post #2161 (isolation #234) » Tue Apr 27, 2021 4:19 am

Post by VP Baltar »

In post 2156, geraintm wrote:
In post 2130, VP Baltar wrote:I forgot about gypyx's crumb. I may want to force him to claim today.
a claim is one thing (on day 2) and he may well refuse (if he knows it is in the best intersts of town for today, but i think he gets basically one days grace), but people need to back off him (which i think they are)
What are you even talking about? I have a very hard time following what you are saying this game or why you're saying it.
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Post Post #2163 (isolation #235) » Tue Apr 27, 2021 4:39 am

Post by VP Baltar »

In post 2162, geraintm wrote:but....i dont feel like they need to claim. they should not be the focus of today's elimination and in my opinion they should not needlessly be run up just to force a claim from them
I don't think we should run him up just to claim either. But he is firmly in my scum PoE, and getting a claim is an added bonus I may consider vs. yeeting Iconeum today.

Look, if you believe that NM is a town vig, it's highly questionable that town has much more power from my perspective.

Vig + doc + roleblocker vs. Goon + Strongman + ???

That doesn't feel too unbalanced to me.
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Post Post #2168 (isolation #236) » Tue Apr 27, 2021 6:19 am

Post by VP Baltar »

In post 2164, Luca Blight wrote:Not to mention the informed role

That’s a good point actually and supports my theory that gypyx was probably crumbing his scum pr role
Right, informed role too!
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Post Post #2171 (isolation #237) » Tue Apr 27, 2021 7:42 am

Post by VP Baltar »

lol can't wait for IV to read this
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Post Post #2175 (isolation #238) » Tue Apr 27, 2021 8:16 am

Post by VP Baltar »

In post 2172, Gypyx wrote:
In post 2171, VP Baltar wrote:lol can't wait for IV to read this
why exactly?
Pretty sure he was the one I was talking to yesterday who said you had to be crumbing a PR, and said he'd be very suspicious if it turned out to be VT when I mentioned that possibility.

Maybe it was Geraint? I can't recall now.
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Post Post #2189 (isolation #239) » Tue Apr 27, 2021 8:49 am

Post by VP Baltar »

In post 2178, innocentvillager wrote:
In post 2175, VP Baltar wrote:he'd be very suspicious if it turned out to be VT when I mentioned that possibility.
please quote me on this. i did not say this ever.
Then it was Geraint. Someone I was having this convo with yesterday
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Post Post #2196 (isolation #240) » Tue Apr 27, 2021 9:12 am

Post by VP Baltar »

In post 2182, innocentvillager wrote:these were my thoughts on Gypyx's claim. it's possible that he was trying to claim multiple things at once, or for some reason just decided he was going to claim VT today
Yes, actually this was the exchange I was referring to. (Sorry, half paying attention bc I'm at work)

I thought I remembered you saying you didn't think it'd be VT, but rereading the exchange fully, you didn't quite go that far.

I still think you are giving town points for something that was incredibly convoluted and fakeable to many directions as needed. But you didn't discount that VT could be a possibility
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Post Post #2199 (isolation #241) » Tue Apr 27, 2021 10:46 am

Post by VP Baltar »

In post 2198, innocentvillager wrote:im not saying im right, ive just had it out there and like zero people have actually engaged with it or agreed
The problem is that gypyx could have made up literally any story to any role with such vague clues.

To me, it means nothing, and is perhaps even slightly negative? Why crumb VT at all?

Actually: Gypyx, do you crumb your role in every game you play?
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Post Post #2201 (isolation #242) » Tue Apr 27, 2021 11:16 am

Post by VP Baltar »

In post 2200, innocentvillager wrote:but, what's his intention when he posts it?
Because if he is forced to claim later and needs to claim a power role, he has a "crumb" that could be made to fit any role he wants.

"See guys, told you I was the Town cop!" Or whatever.

I don't even think it was a big brain plan, so much as something the master of crazy roles would cook up on a normal afternoon.

I'm not saying he can't be a VT here...just saying there is definitely motive to do that as scum.
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Post Post #2203 (isolation #243) » Tue Apr 27, 2021 12:18 pm

Post by VP Baltar »

In post 2202, Gypyx wrote:but this is my first time crumbing VT, wanted to try something out, hopefully attract scum's attention, that sorta stuff
What made you want to crumb VT? When did you get the idea?
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Post Post #2208 (isolation #244) » Tue Apr 27, 2021 6:22 pm

Post by VP Baltar »

In post 2206, Iconeum wrote:
In post 2164, Luca Blight wrote:Not to mention the informed role

That’s a good point actually and supports my theory that gypyx was probably crumbing his scum pr role
i have no idea how you are coming to your conclusions this game

i literally cannot grasp it
Why are you townreading Gypyx?
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Post Post #2217 (isolation #245) » Wed Apr 28, 2021 1:32 am

Post by VP Baltar »

In post 2216, AliceK wrote:Imo 1-2 scums in {gypex, Ico, iv}. Could be that there is a deepwolf somewhere, but that's something to focus in p5/p3
Luca and I have basically already said this. Can I get a full reads list from you and your thoughts on Gypyx's claim?
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Post Post #2218 (isolation #246) » Wed Apr 28, 2021 1:34 am

Post by VP Baltar »

In post 2214, Iconeum wrote:whatever

if this town needs my yeet to move on go for it
Why are you not answering my question and only focusing on Luca?

Why are you not trying to convince others Luca is scum beyond "he is attacking me"?

If you're town, you seem like you're just giving up and IDK what I'm supposed to do with that. I don't feel like I'm engaging you in bad faith here.
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Post Post #2228 (isolation #247) » Wed Apr 28, 2021 4:58 am

Post by VP Baltar »

In post 2224, innocentvillager wrote:
In post 2201, VP Baltar wrote:
In post 2200, innocentvillager wrote:but, what's his intention when he posts it?
Because if he is forced to claim later and needs to claim a power role, he has a "crumb" that could be made to fit any role he wants.

"See guys, told you I was the Town cop!" Or whatever.

I don't even think it was a big brain plan, so much as something the master of crazy roles would cook up on a normal afternoon.

I'm not saying he can't be a VT here...just saying there is definitely motive to do that as scum.
In post 2204, Luca Blight wrote:The scum benefit to such a crumb is

1) no-one wants to lim you D1 in case you’re a pr

2) you can use it to explain away just about any claim that is convenient in the moment

If gypyx is scum then he’s hardly a power wolf, and so such a gimmick might prove useful to him to at least help him get through the first day

If he’s Town then he might do it to bait the NK I guess
to clarify you are both arguing that, IF HE IS SCUM, he literally crumbed NONSENSE, thinking that he would be able to spin it into any claim he wanted. And that somehow it would get him towncred. That's literally what you're both saying. Is that correct?
You are giving him town cred for it. Not sure why you think that is so crazy
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Post Post #2230 (isolation #248) » Wed Apr 28, 2021 6:21 am

Post by VP Baltar »

In post 2229, Anya wrote:the mouse dragon wolf awaits his execution
Are you going to add original thoughts to this game or just do this schtick the whole time?
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Post Post #2231 (isolation #249) » Wed Apr 28, 2021 6:45 am

Post by VP Baltar »

*channeling Datisi rage from beyond the grave*
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Post Post #2234 (isolation #250) » Wed Apr 28, 2021 7:49 am

Post by VP Baltar »

Lol it is just you and I playing this game at this point. Luca, if you are scum, I will be very annoyed.
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Post Post #2236 (isolation #251) » Wed Apr 28, 2021 8:35 am

Post by VP Baltar »

In post 2235, geraintm wrote:
In post 2221, Luca Blight wrote:
In post 2220, geraintm wrote:sorry for being mostly absent today.

im not voting for gypyx anytime today. they;ll be found out later if it is fake.
What?

Do you realize gypyx claimed vt?
yes, and if they turn out to be scum it will become more and more obvious as the game progresses. there is no need to vote Gypyx today
How will it become more clear specifically?
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Post Post #2239 (isolation #252) » Wed Apr 28, 2021 11:06 am

Post by VP Baltar »

In post 2219, Luca Blight wrote:
@mods: a VC would be appreciated
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Post Post #2243 (isolation #253) » Wed Apr 28, 2021 3:56 pm

Post by VP Baltar »

Not_mafia...you going to vote someone?
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Post Post #2347 (isolation #254) » Thu Apr 29, 2021 2:55 am

Post by VP Baltar »

Lots of pages overnight. That's an improvement at least.

Look, I think Ico and Gypyx are either scum, or being kind of babies about fair questions from Luca. This defense of 'he doesn't want answers' is complete gaslighting. He isn't being unreasonable or even pushing that hard. Gypyx stalling for time basically everytime he gets asked a question bugs the hell out of me. *cough cough* George*cough*

I momentarily considered whether Geraint is getting too much of a free pass here, but I actually came to many of the same wagon conclusions he did in that last post.

I have a very hard time believing there are zero scum in {Ico, gypyx, IV}.

I may be willing to consider making Gypyx and IV the dueling wagons today.

In regards to Alice's progression...from what Ico posted, that doesn't look great. I'd need to ISO alice for full context though. I also think it is worth noting Alice is a noob, and sometimes unexplained progressions happen.
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Post Post #2352 (isolation #255) » Thu Apr 29, 2021 4:10 am

Post by VP Baltar »

Maybe you just fucked up
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Post Post #2353 (isolation #256) » Thu Apr 29, 2021 4:11 am

Post by VP Baltar »

Like all these defenses of "I'm better than this as scum" mean nothing to me. Y'all let george eat a yeet D1. Clearly the scum team isn't #crushingit
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Post Post #2354 (isolation #257) » Thu Apr 29, 2021 4:12 am

Post by VP Baltar »

Plus! Datisi and I were both strongly supporting an Anya yeet and that still happened. There is no world where anyone in this game played a good scum game on D1. So someone fucked up, plain and simple.
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Post Post #2361 (isolation #258) » Thu Apr 29, 2021 4:41 am

Post by VP Baltar »

UNVOTE:
VOTE: innocent villager
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Post Post #2367 (isolation #259) » Thu Apr 29, 2021 4:42 am

Post by VP Baltar »

Dude, you realize your waffling yesterday looked like you were hoping Anya ate it while you white knighted, right?
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Post Post #2370 (isolation #260) » Thu Apr 29, 2021 4:45 am

Post by VP Baltar »

UNVOTE:
VOTE: gypyx

Actually, this probably has a higher statistical likelihood of hitting scum since Gypyx could be partners with several people
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Post Post #2371 (isolation #261) » Thu Apr 29, 2021 4:45 am

Post by VP Baltar »

As much as I think you should policy anyone who rage votes themselves
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Post Post #2380 (isolation #262) » Thu Apr 29, 2021 4:52 am

Post by VP Baltar »

In post 2375, innocentvillager wrote:
In post 2367, VP Baltar wrote:Dude, you realize your waffling yesterday looked like you were hoping Anya ate it while you white knighted, right?
that is not an argument ive heard before actually. it's actually not terrible

but a) in what world does that get me towncred b) clearly i was trying and GeorgeBailey was the next elim. it's way too much risk for the reward. but i guess that argument is at least defensible
I don't think it would necessarily get you town cred.

You've kind of tried to get some points for it by saying you defended Anya, but IF you're scum, I think you maybe forgot to vote and got called on it. Mistakes happen as scum.

It was a risk for sure, but also - in my experience - you do need to take some risks as scum to actually win. Playing too safe leads to getting PoEd many times. Trust me, I suck at risk taking as scum, and I often lose as scum.
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Post Post #2381 (isolation #263) » Thu Apr 29, 2021 4:53 am

Post by VP Baltar »

In post 2377, NorwegianboyEE wrote:I don't really feel like Ico's towntold so i'm not really understanding why Gypyx is gaining votes again.
I don't think gypyx looks town at all. It may be too easy of a solve that they are both scum. Idk. I really hate the stall tactics gypyx is using and his reads have no explanation
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Post Post #2398 (isolation #264) » Thu Apr 29, 2021 5:16 am

Post by VP Baltar »

In post 2390, innocentvillager wrote:I have no idea what you're saying in the second line. Please elaborate
You have said multiple times that you should be obvtown based on D1. Tht is what I mean.
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Post Post #2403 (isolation #265) » Thu Apr 29, 2021 5:35 am

Post by VP Baltar »

In post 2400, innocentvillager wrote:
In post 2380, VP Baltar wrote:IF you're scum, I think you maybe forgot to vote and got called on it. Mistakes happen as scum.
no this line

what does this mean
I mean you were white knighting Anya without voting George as deadline approached, then Datisi and I were like 'uh, you going to actually vote or fence sit ?'

If you're scum, it's possible you had forgotten to throw down a vote on George or thought you had one there.

It's a bit tinfoil, but that's how my brain works.
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Post Post #2404 (isolation #266) » Thu Apr 29, 2021 5:49 am

Post by VP Baltar »

In post 1487, Datisi wrote:
In post 1486, VP Baltar wrote:Going off memory, I couldn't tell you who he has really interrogated or what he asked them about.
i went to check, he's currently voting george because ??? reasons

and also i find it kinda interesting how his strongest scumread was iv, but there wasn't much of anything recently in terms of either interacting w him or pushing him

and by interesting i mean fuck this game but you get the point
good post about Gypx to resurface from D1.
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Post Post #2413 (isolation #267) » Thu Apr 29, 2021 6:36 am

Post by VP Baltar »

In post 2412, NorwegianboyEE wrote:I've got an idea, we'll vote whoever Anya says is brilliantly town.
lol not wrong
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Post Post #2415 (isolation #268) » Thu Apr 29, 2021 6:37 am

Post by VP Baltar »

The other possibility is that D1 was so weird because both Anya and George were scum run up. That creates a super panic situation for scum that is hard to deal with
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Post Post #2417 (isolation #269) » Thu Apr 29, 2021 9:05 am

Post by VP Baltar »

I think that's right. I switched but NM jumped on
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Post Post #2430 (isolation #270) » Thu Apr 29, 2021 3:48 pm

Post by VP Baltar »

In post 2429, Luca Blight wrote:I don’t get why I’m still low in your reads, IV
I also find this silly. Luca is obvtown
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Post Post #2431 (isolation #271) » Thu Apr 29, 2021 3:49 pm

Post by VP Baltar »

There is almost no way scum tries that hard in a game like this. The scum play here would be to feed the apathy and inactivity, not try to counteract it
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Post Post #2459 (isolation #272) » Fri Apr 30, 2021 1:40 am

Post by VP Baltar »

I'd like Alice to respond to Ico's critiques of her case.
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Post Post #2477 (isolation #273) » Fri Apr 30, 2021 2:55 am

Post by VP Baltar »

In post 2475, Anya wrote:looks legit enough to me
You were just calling Alice scum and now you're sheeping her?
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Post Post #2478 (isolation #274) » Fri Apr 30, 2021 2:56 am

Post by VP Baltar »

In post 2476, AliceK wrote:
In post 2459, VP Baltar wrote:I'd like Alice to respond to Ico's critiques of her case.
I will elaborate on this more. Looks like I actually need to quote him.
Thank you!
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Post Post #2499 (isolation #275) » Fri Apr 30, 2021 5:28 am

Post by VP Baltar »

In post 2486, innocentvillager wrote:Baltar please respond to previous page stuff at you or acknowledge that your statement was incorrect.
Lol no.

Dude, stop trying to badger me into giving you a town pass. The more you do this shit, the more I want to yeet you. STOP BEGGING TO BE TOWNREAD.

When the fuck did this start as a thing townies do on this site? Datisi did it. Ico did it. You're doing it. I've seen people in other games do it.

I don't think you've been solving like Luca has. He is asking way more smart questions and reevaluating as needed.

I don't owe you a townread in this game ever. Prove you're town through your play and I'll come around on you. You've seen me do this in other games with you. The fact you're trying to AtE me into townreading you by acting like I'm treating you unfairly does nothing for me. It is not how I work. In fact, it has the complete opposite effect for me.

I haven't even actually pushed on you hard, so why are you like begging me to let up?

There are positives and negatives to your play this game, and I have not been harsh or unfair to you.
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Post Post #2501 (isolation #276) » Fri Apr 30, 2021 5:34 am

Post by VP Baltar »

In post 2496, innocentvillager wrote:i think one reason im having such a hard time getting townreads in this plist is because Datisi and Wooper are dead. im feel like they'd have me as clear town by now.
Seriously. Look at this. You are more obsessed with everyone else getting townreads on you than you are with finding scum.

That's huge alarm bells, especially when there isn't that serious of an effort to yeet you today.

I don't get it at all from a town perspective. But like I said, seen so many townies do this outside this game too. Feel like site meta gives cover to scum so they can AtE anytime they get in trouble. So confusing what the point is.
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Post Post #2502 (isolation #277) » Fri Apr 30, 2021 5:35 am

Post by VP Baltar »

In post 2500, innocentvillager wrote:im past you not townreading me. chill dude. im literally just asking you to followup on that specific thought.
Luca is scumhunting and you're complaining about not being townread. That's my follow up
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Post Post #2503 (isolation #278) » Fri Apr 30, 2021 5:36 am

Post by VP Baltar »

In post 2498, innocentvillager wrote:NM is cleared

if geraint, VPB are scum ill cry and im just terrible.

Norway is like p towny i guess. d2 has been very meh but i still think some d1 things were likely out of scumrange so on balance i think that matters more

{Luca, Alice, Gypyx, Anya, Ico} both scum like have to be here right? ugh
If you just kept providing analysis and reasons like this, I wouldn't be so tweaked at you.

What D1 things from Norway were out of scum range?
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Post Post #2516 (isolation #279) » Sat May 01, 2021 2:24 am

Post by VP Baltar »

UNVOTE:
VOTE: Iconeum

I'm going to be busy with work much of today and tomorrow. I don't think there is a world where we should yeet IV before Ico. They kind of have similar points against them around the George wagon, but IV is probably contributing more toward pushing the game forward.
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Post Post #2517 (isolation #280) » Sat May 01, 2021 2:24 am

Post by VP Baltar »

E-1
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Post Post #2525 (isolation #281) » Sat May 01, 2021 3:26 am

Post by VP Baltar »

In post 2524, Gypyx wrote:
In post 2495, innocentvillager wrote:gypyx i think you should continue trying to evaluate me critically. i think there's more than enough content to read me at this point. i know tonal reads are hard to break down but i think you should think about why you don't like my tone and whether that's actually based on real experience from playing with me or if it's my general playstyle tone you dislike.

what anti associatives between me and Alice are you referring to btw?
i'll try sure, just that i'm pretty damn tired rn so not today

on another note, kinda wanna see where an alice wagon could go, maybe it's too late though?
Not today....we have like a day and a half left this phase. Do you see why I think you're stalling for time constantly this game?

Also, why aren't you voting alice if that's what you want?
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Post Post #2555 (isolation #282) » Sat May 01, 2021 4:37 am

Post by VP Baltar »

In post 2547, NorwegianboyEE wrote:I'm also a bit paranoid about Geraintm masterminding an early informed claim and defending Ico here but that's some big tin foil hat theory i'm not really going to take too seriously.
Brb got to talk to my therapist about how much anxiety this gives me
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Post Post #2619 (isolation #283) » Tue May 04, 2021 1:53 am

Post by VP Baltar »

Scum absolutely have to have a roleblocker for us to have a cop.

Also, that IV kill is WEEEEEIRD. Seems like a rookie play.
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Post Post #2620 (isolation #284) » Tue May 04, 2021 2:05 am

Post by VP Baltar »

My gut agrees with the theory that the informed claim probably came from Ico if geraintm is scum.
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Post Post #2621 (isolation #285) » Tue May 04, 2021 2:05 am

Post by VP Baltar »

But I also kind of want the full Alice claim because that doc+cop combo is very OP
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Post Post #2623 (isolation #286) » Tue May 04, 2021 2:23 am

Post by VP Baltar »

In post 2622, geraintm wrote:
In post 2621, VP Baltar wrote:But I also kind of want the full Alice claim because that doc+cop combo is very OP
disrupted by the strongman from scum, and town roleblocker screwing it up?
She said that? Maybe I skimmed over that
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Post Post #2626 (isolation #287) » Tue May 04, 2021 2:57 am

Post by VP Baltar »

Let me ask you geraintm: do you believe Alice's claim?
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Post Post #2627 (isolation #288) » Tue May 04, 2021 2:59 am

Post by VP Baltar »

In post 2624, geraintm wrote:no, you said the combo is very overpowered, but i was saying that scum were given a strong man to break through the combo, so i didn't think it was too overpowered.

and added that i thought the town roleblocker is there to accidentally screw it up too.
IDK...from my perspective, that is a lot of contingency to nerf the doc/cop combo. No guarantees it happens.
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Post Post #2630 (isolation #289) » Tue May 04, 2021 3:40 am

Post by VP Baltar »

In post 2628, geraintm wrote:iconeum - mafia 1 shot roleblocker
:?
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Post Post #2631 (isolation #290) » Tue May 04, 2021 3:45 am

Post by VP Baltar »

Here is a fact: I think one of Alice or Geraintm is probably lying in this situation.
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Post Post #2637 (isolation #291) » Tue May 04, 2021 4:56 am

Post by VP Baltar »

In post 2636, geraintm wrote:
In post 2631, VP Baltar wrote:Here is a fact: I think one of Alice or Geraintm is probably lying in this situation.
im not.
as i said i think alice is about 80% on telling the truth.
I mean, you realize your instincts this game have been the exact opposite of correct, right?
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Post Post #2638 (isolation #292) » Tue May 04, 2021 4:58 am

Post by VP Baltar »

Alternative theory here is that Gypyx is like a mafia roleblocker or like jailkeeper and I could squint to see balance there.

The IV kill is weird, but had it been Luca or myself, MAYBE that would have pointed harder at gypyx?
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Post Post #2643 (isolation #293) » Tue May 04, 2021 8:49 am

Post by VP Baltar »

In post 2642, Anya wrote:did everyone else write down their roles?
I stuck mine to my forehead.

I do agree with Anya though that the more I think about it, the less I think geraintm is scum here.

I still may mostly want to yeet Gypyx today. There are a couple scenarios I'm thinking of now where maybe Alice is town.
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Post Post #2645 (isolation #294) » Tue May 04, 2021 8:51 am

Post by VP Baltar »

Alice, did you crumb your claim?
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Post Post #2646 (isolation #295) » Tue May 04, 2021 8:53 am

Post by VP Baltar »

8 alive, 1 scum.

Assuming no shenanigans, we'd have 3 executions left by my math (I am notoriously bad at math)
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Post Post #2650 (isolation #296) » Tue May 04, 2021 9:44 am

Post by VP Baltar »

I am very confident Luca is town. I am town. I think it is unlikely Norwee is scum.

IMO, the lim order is probably Gypyx, one of gerain/Alice, remainder or Norwee.

I can't even imagine a way we lose this game, but I've seen cocky town do it I guess
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Post Post #2653 (isolation #297) » Tue May 04, 2021 11:27 am

Post by VP Baltar »

In post 2651, Gypyx wrote:i honestly have no idea why Luca is town so could someone give bullet points on em'?
Luca and I were doing almost all the heavy lifting yesterday. (Others helped too, just talking primaries from my perspective).

He pushed in a lot of novel and needed directions. I don't see scum doing that. If you think he could be scum, I think the onus is on you to make that case.
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Post Post #2654 (isolation #298) » Tue May 04, 2021 3:08 pm

Post by VP Baltar »

VOTE: gypyx
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Post Post #2656 (isolation #299) » Tue May 04, 2021 6:07 pm

Post by VP Baltar »

In post 2655, NorwegianboyEE wrote:What is you felt was townie from Geraint these latest pages Baltar?
I mean, is scum really going to go that hard against bussing at every turn when things are going that badly?
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Post Post #2657 (isolation #300) » Tue May 04, 2021 6:16 pm

Post by VP Baltar »

In post 2656, VP Baltar wrote:
In post 2655, NorwegianboyEE wrote:What is you felt was townie from Geraint these latest pages Baltar?
I mean, is scum really going to go that hard against bussing at every turn when things are going that badly?
And that's not the latest pages, but rather the scope of the game.
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Post Post #2671 (isolation #301) » Wed May 05, 2021 1:44 am

Post by VP Baltar »

In post 2665, geraintm wrote:Is my thinking clean enough for people?
Anyone want to clarify anything i've said?
Your VC analysis is devoid of context. You have to look at more than simply where a vote is. You have to look at how sincerely someone is pushing a yeet, are they genuinely burying to convince others to join, etc.

Also, the moderator disappeared from this game for whatever reason, so IDK if the frequency of vote counts is even all that useful at this point.

Luca and Norway should really not be your priority yeets from my perspective.
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Post Post #2672 (isolation #302) » Wed May 05, 2021 1:46 am

Post by VP Baltar »

In post 2658, AliceK wrote:
In post 2652, NorwegianboyEE wrote:Tbh, if i was cop then the last person i’d check is Anya. That’s the main thing i find sus about Alice.
I do believe Anya is spewed town though. As either Alice is scum fake claiming a true result or Alice is cop with an actual real result. Either way Anya town, the only issue is if Alice’s claim is trustworthy.
I play simple. Either I try to find Town in SRd players or find scum in TRd players. If I knew iv will be killed I would probably check you.
Hi, can you answer my question whether you crumbed or not?
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Post Post #2679 (isolation #303) » Wed May 05, 2021 3:24 am

Post by VP Baltar »

In post 2673, Luca Blight wrote:Geraint has been really weird around both flipped scum players:

geraint fos'd George, then when some people voted george geraint vowed never to join the wagon because the wagon was apparently bad, even though he had no problem voting Icon despite complaining about the previous votes on him

It feels as though geraint wasn't being sincere with these stances and was instead trying to balance distancing with keeping his partners safe. I guess putting Icon to E-2 D1 was a risky move as scum, but he did so while highlighting how bad the wagon was, so it was basically a defence in a weird way.
Honestly, his terrible play is primarily why I think he is town here.
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Post Post #2681 (isolation #304) » Wed May 05, 2021 3:37 am

Post by VP Baltar »

In post 2680, Luca Blight wrote:I just don't get those views/stances from a town perspective

Like if gerant were town I'd have expected him to be stubborn about the george wagon and refuse to vote it, like he did with the gypyx wagon D2. I don't get why he randomly hammers there after saying what he said about the wagon, other than to gain a little towncred while it's still on offer
It's a wash for me because I definitely don't see much if any scum benefit from that play either
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Post Post #2682 (isolation #305) » Wed May 05, 2021 3:38 am

Post by VP Baltar »

I kind of have a theory of the game, but it involves talking about power roles and IDK if we should go down that road.
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Post Post #2686 (isolation #306) » Wed May 05, 2021 4:28 am

Post by VP Baltar »

I mean, bless him, geraintm just seems super aloof to be scum. It's a too scummy to be scum argument for me.

Whereas Gypyx is scummy but in a non-contributing and evasive way. I don't think we should excuse his inactivity. Both scum so far have tried to make excuses for why they aren't actively hunting. I think they were all demoralized from the start and we shouldn't change our course now.
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Post Post #2688 (isolation #307) » Wed May 05, 2021 6:57 am

Post by VP Baltar »

Where have I heard this "I don't play like this as scum" argument before?
In post 2113, Iconeum wrote:you've literally JUST seen scum me in action

you've literally JUST seen how i try to take control of a town as scum

you've literally JUST seen how i do NOT kill datisi until late in the game as scum

and you try to sell this is my scumgame????????

no way ur this dense as town
In post 2211, Iconeum wrote:#Town!Ico.never.does.that.
In post 2214, Iconeum wrote:whatever

if this town needs my yeet to move on go for it
In post 2317, Iconeum wrote:i really don't wanna keep playing this card but like

luca

you *just* played a game with scum!me
i was under a TON of pressure day 1

did i respond so badly there?
i'm not saying you should townread me for it but using it as a means to scumread me is just wrong

*pedit
reallly? i think i was super agressive, not defensive?
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Post Post #2689 (isolation #308) » Wed May 05, 2021 6:58 am

Post by VP Baltar »

I'm still trying to determine whether Ico was actually out for Alice blood yesterday. On a skim of Ico's iso, I kind of think so.
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Post Post #2691 (isolation #309) » Wed May 05, 2021 7:44 am

Post by VP Baltar »

In post 2690, Not_Mafia wrote:Elim geraint
Another reason geraintm is probably town.
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Post Post #2695 (isolation #310) » Wed May 05, 2021 9:39 am

Post by VP Baltar »

In post 2693, Gypyx wrote:true, ico did it too, but first of all the argument is different, second of all there's nothing that prevents this coming from town
This is semantics. My point is that the "I would do X as scum" self meta is garbage. Self meta is garbage.

No one should do it. Ever.
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Post Post #2696 (isolation #311) » Wed May 05, 2021 9:39 am

Post by VP Baltar »

In post 2694, NorwegianboyEE wrote:Elim geraint
I haven't seen a convincing case of why geraintm before gypyx. Why do you feel that way?
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Post Post #2698 (isolation #312) » Wed May 05, 2021 9:51 am

Post by VP Baltar »

Yeah, I am. Scum don't fight against every scum elim typically. It's usually more of a split deal with not a lot of explanation, much like what Gypyx is doing. Plus the promises always of content later!

Meanwhile, Geraint pops in here about every day with some crazy theory and no shame about it.
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Post Post #2702 (isolation #313) » Wed May 05, 2021 10:40 am

Post by VP Baltar »

In post 2699, NorwegianboyEE wrote:I feel like that assumes this was a competent scum team. When we have eliminated 2 so far.
Everyone has bad games. Doesn't mean they were incompetent. My scum team of site veterans got creamed in a large last year because we couldn't quite find out feet in the game. It was a disaster
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Post Post #2703 (isolation #314) » Wed May 05, 2021 10:44 am

Post by VP Baltar »

In post 2701, Gypyx wrote:well, first scum elim was a dueling wagons stuff, it def makes sense for scum!gera to wanna avoid yeeting GB, and you gotta admit him wanting to not vote GB on grounds that "this is a trash wagon" is pretty sketchy
I agree. I think I called this out at the time too.

Could he be scum here? For sure. I just don't know if I think it'd be THAT obvious.

I mean, if he is a nervous scum player, why didn't the scum team have Ico claim as the informed townie? Unless they orchestrated gerain to be a goof. IDK.
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Post Post #2705 (isolation #315) » Wed May 05, 2021 11:04 am

Post by VP Baltar »

Me asking why a flail scum team didn't play better lol
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Post Post #2708 (isolation #316) » Wed May 05, 2021 1:20 pm

Post by VP Baltar »

Alice, answer my fucking question or I will join your wagon.
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Post Post #2725 (isolation #317) » Thu May 06, 2021 1:40 am

Post by VP Baltar »

Ok, so I suspected Alice was some type of modified cop. I think I have a pretty good suspicion of what it is as well. I don't know why Alice made me ask several times whether she breadcrumbed her role, but she is probably just noobing it up.

My argument for yeeting gypyx over geraintm today would be that the nerfed cop adds some level of balance, assuming scum have another PR in play. Perhaps they have a roleblocker or rolecop. That makes geraintm's claim more plausible, and we should yeet gypyx first.
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Post Post #2726 (isolation #318) » Thu May 06, 2021 1:42 am

Post by VP Baltar »

Wherever we yeet today, I agree with Norway that we have mostly spent our discussion today. Vote for either geraintm or gypyx and let's end this.
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Post Post #2735 (isolation #319) » Thu May 06, 2021 3:45 am

Post by VP Baltar »

UNVOTE:
VOTE: geraintm

Think this flips green, but I am clearly winning no converts to that viewpoint today.
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Post Post #2782 (isolation #320) » Mon May 10, 2021 1:53 am

Post by VP Baltar »

We should have limed gypyx yesterday. This was the exact situation I was trying to not be in.

My gut says Alice is too naive to be gambiting here, which means it is either gypyx or we are getting wolfed by someone like Luca or Norway. The fact Luca wasn't killed last night makes me pretty suspicious.

Anya was town either way, but also a nonthreat. I would assume killing talkative town members before limlo would be a bigger priority, and yet I'm here and so is Luca.
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Post Post #2786 (isolation #321) » Mon May 10, 2021 2:31 am

Post by VP Baltar »

In post 2784, AliceK wrote:
In post 2782, VP Baltar wrote:We should have limed gypyx yesterday. This was the exact situation I was trying to not be in.

My gut says Alice is too naive to be gambiting here, which means it is either gypyx or we are getting wolfed by someone like Luca or Norway. The fact Luca wasn't killed last night makes me pretty suspicious.

Anya was town either way, but also a nonthreat. I would assume killing talkative town members before limlo would be a bigger priority, and yet I'm here and so is Luca.
Well, I take those. Why Luca should be killed? It doesn't make sense for me.
Luca is a discussion driver and has been able to influence the game state. That makes him more dangerous during the day if he is town.
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Post Post #2795 (isolation #322) » Mon May 10, 2021 2:52 am

Post by VP Baltar »

In post 2793, Gypyx wrote:that's assuming he's right
For sure, but if I'm scum, I'd think Alice and Anya are pretty swayable toward a misyeet as compared to Luca/Norway.

That being said, everyone is going to play their own mafia style I guess.

Who is your gut saying we should Lim gypyx?
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Post Post #2799 (isolation #323) » Mon May 10, 2021 3:06 am

Post by VP Baltar »

In post 2796, Gypyx wrote:my gut says you,
Tell me more
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Post Post #2800 (isolation #324) » Mon May 10, 2021 6:38 am

Post by VP Baltar »

I suppose scum also made that kill to avoid getting PoEd on the geraintm wagon.
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Post Post #2802 (isolation #325) » Mon May 10, 2021 3:22 pm

Post by VP Baltar »

In post 2800, VP Baltar wrote:I suppose scum also made that kill to avoid getting PoEd on the geraintm wagon.
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Post Post #2803 (isolation #326) » Tue May 11, 2021 1:19 am

Post by VP Baltar »

Hey VP, how are you?

Oh, I'm good.

Cool, catch any scum today?

Nah, just me here.
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Post Post #2804 (isolation #327) » Tue May 11, 2021 5:35 am

Post by VP Baltar »

VOTE: gypyx

K I'm just doing this then and not going to effort
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Post Post #2815 (isolation #328) » Tue May 11, 2021 1:40 pm

Post by VP Baltar »

In post 2813, Gypyx wrote:you were pretty in the background from what i recall, so it could be you just not pulling enough weight to protect your buds
Getting called background by this one is the height of insult!

I'm pretty sure I was the first person to suggest we yeet Ico after the GB flip.
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Post Post #2816 (isolation #329) » Tue May 11, 2021 3:09 pm

Post by VP Baltar »

Who was out front this game Gypyx?
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Post Post #2818 (isolation #330) » Wed May 12, 2021 3:45 am

Post by VP Baltar »

Oof. I will never own a bird.
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Post Post #2819 (isolation #331) » Wed May 12, 2021 4:31 am

Post by VP Baltar »

Luca...when you coming back?
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Post Post #2824 (isolation #332) » Thu May 13, 2021 1:39 am

Post by VP Baltar »

In post 2821, Sirius9121 wrote:Not_Mafia
Gypyx
NorwegianboyEE
VP Baltar

prodded
Lol I'm the only person posting consistently, but ok!
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Post Post #2825 (isolation #333) » Thu May 13, 2021 1:40 am

Post by VP Baltar »

In post 2823, AliceK wrote:Idk of we gonna elim anyone else than gypyx.
Then vote him
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Post Post #2834 (isolation #334) » Thu May 13, 2021 5:43 am

Post by VP Baltar »

In post 2830, Luca Blight wrote:I forgot how much Baltar opposed the George lim
Yeah, and I was fine to be wrong. I was pushing the Anya wagon. The George wagon was based on meta...which I don't really have on George.
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Post Post #2837 (isolation #335) » Thu May 13, 2021 5:50 am

Post by VP Baltar »

In post 1870, VP Baltar wrote:In other news, I'm starting to agree that one of Ico and Luca are scum, with a lean toward Ico.
In post 1903, VP Baltar wrote:VOTE: Iconeum

I spent a good amount of time going over people's votes on George to see who looked natural and who did not. I feel fairly confident Ico is scum here. Datisi kill doesn't help.
On Ico, just want to remind you I was heading toward Ico as George was about to flip, and my first post of D2 was an Ico vote.
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Post Post #2839 (isolation #336) » Thu May 13, 2021 5:51 am

Post by VP Baltar »

In post 2836, Luca Blight wrote:I just hope this ends the game as I don't fancy a 1v1 against you Tomorrow
Yeah, for sure. I don't really think it is likely you are scum either given your fights with Ico.

There's always the scary chance you're big braining me here, but I really do think Gypyx just flips red here.
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Post Post #2840 (isolation #337) » Thu May 13, 2021 5:55 am

Post by VP Baltar »

NM, here is your hammer chance
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Post Post #2843 (isolation #338) » Thu May 13, 2021 10:45 am

Post by VP Baltar »

You are not flipping town. C'mon now
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Post Post #2862 (isolation #339) » Mon May 17, 2021 3:01 am

Post by VP Baltar »

I'll do some iso skimming today and see what I see. Gut from yesterday stands that Luca is scummier/less committed to positions than Norwee has been, but Norwee has also kind of played along the periphery for some of the game.

NM, can you tell me what first pinged you about Luca?
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Post Post #2863 (isolation #340) » Mon May 17, 2021 3:02 am

Post by VP Baltar »

IIRC, Luca was also the tipping for the geraintm misyeet, which is really what put us on our current bad path.
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Post Post #2865 (isolation #341) » Mon May 17, 2021 3:38 am

Post by VP Baltar »

In post 2864, Luca Blight wrote:How is limming geraint -> gypyx any worse than gypyx -> geraint?
Because Geraint was unlikely to flip scum ever. I said as much. Gypyx had to go, but we really didn't need to flip geraintm.

Had we gone the other order, scum would have had a much harder time getting a misyeet yesterday, fmpov.
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Post Post #2868 (isolation #342) » Mon May 17, 2021 5:09 am

Post by VP Baltar »

In post 2867, NorwegianboyEE wrote:Alternatively, if we no lim and N_M dies then we can do ElO for real.
I've thought about this in the off chance NM is lying and scum got a bonus kill to offset the doc/cop combo. But feels like the cop was probably nerfed enough that's unlikely. Idk if I really want to drag this game out longer if we are just going to be making the same exact decision tomorrow
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Post Post #2869 (isolation #343) » Mon May 17, 2021 5:12 am

Post by VP Baltar »

In post 2866, NorwegianboyEE wrote:I'm not sure what periphery means,
It means you haven't really been a driving force in the game. Doesn't mean your pushes weren't correct. I already looked at you once after the Ico flip and I remember it seeming like you were unlikely to be scum based on what you had said. I just mostly want to look again and make sure I didn't miss anything because I strongly felt Gypyx was the partner at the time.
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Post Post #2870 (isolation #344) » Mon May 17, 2021 5:16 am

Post by VP Baltar »

In post 2866, NorwegianboyEE wrote:Also i called out Ico's push on Luca as looking pretty bad and it didn't feel like bussing
This is a good point to raise. I want to see when Ico did this actually. I was pushing Ico from the start of the day, so he may have thought he was going down and needed to distance
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Post Post #2871 (isolation #345) » Mon May 17, 2021 5:38 am

Post by VP Baltar »

The lack of vote counts this game is STRUGGLE FOR ANALYSIS
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Post Post #2872 (isolation #346) » Mon May 17, 2021 6:57 am

Post by VP Baltar »

Ok, so I'm going through Ico first, and what I see is Ico calling Luca town for basically all of Day 1. Even has him as a top tier town read. (Edit as I'm doing this, I'm now just fully rereading D2)
In post 995, Iconeum wrote:ok i see you need some Ico!Shotgun reads in your life

wooper/datisi/luca/norwee
NM/VP/Gyp/IV
AliceK/Anya/GB

Geraint gets a special spot where i've never been more itchy to lim a prob town slot
Then on D2, IV and I come out and vote Ico with no hesitation and Luca votes Gypyx. Not a huge deal, but that is the exact moment that Ico and Luca start slap fighting around this post or so.
In post 1958, Iconeum wrote:
In post 1957, Luca Blight wrote:
In post 1951, Iconeum wrote:scum!me kills wooper because??
Because he thought you and George were partners?
so

i help town kill my partner
and then i kill the town who already connected me to scum!george

that is your theory?
That continues for about eight pages without really going anywhere. Anya votes Ico toward the back half of that exchange, putting Ico at three votes. Then we get this exchange:
In post 2110, Iconeum wrote:VOTE: luca
In post 2111, Luca Blight wrote:I love how Icon dives deep to try and find dirt on me as he's unable to explain the mess that is lol
In post 2112, Luca Blight wrote:Ok let's do this

VOTE: Icon

Norwegian notes this is a weird and bad push.
In post 2131, NorwegianboyEE wrote:
In post 2110, Iconeum wrote:VOTE: luca
Mehhh.
In post 2132, NorwegianboyEE wrote:Incredibly bad Luca push.
Why is he scum?? Just because he is pushing you Ico?
Sadly, I get distracted hear by arguing with IV about gypyx's claim. This allows a ton of people, including Ico, to just lurk and I'm getting irrationally angry rereading this game and WHY CAN'T YOU ALL JUST POST MORE OFTEN.

Luca starts drafting off my pushes and that's bad for me.
In post 2233, Luca Blight wrote:I’m struggling to see beyond a gypyx/Icon team right now. It would kind of explain why it seems like Icon has given up here as that team is never winning this game. I’m a little paranoid of geraint as his posts are increasingly weird but I’m still thinking he’s more likely town

About to sleep, I’ll look a bit closer at IV tomorrow
Which I definitely pinged off of at the time, but put on my gypyx/Ico blinders.
In post 2234, VP Baltar wrote:Lol it is just you and I playing this game at this point. Luca, if you are scum, I will be very annoyed.
Norwegian joins the ICO wagon at E-2, also riding my coat tails a little bit with Ico/Gypyx solve. This is very much why we should have limmed Gypyx D3.
In post 2242, Sirius9121 wrote:
Official Vote Count


Iconeum
(4): VP Baltar, innocentvillager, Anya, Luca Blight
innocentvillager
(2): Gypyx, geraintm
Gypyx
(2): NorwegianboyEE, AliceK
Luca Blight
(1): Iconeum

Not Voting
(1): Not_Mafia

With 10 alive, it takes 6 to eliminate.

Deadline
: (expired on 2021-05-03 10:38:00)


Please note that the color
#800080
and all similar shades are considered off limits from now on.
In post 2249, NorwegianboyEE wrote:I don’t see my vote going anywhere other than Gypyx or Ico today.
VOTE: Iconeum
Ico claims VT at this point and has this series of posts.
In post 2253, Iconeum wrote:i'm vt

yeet away

vig luca

final scum probably someone like anya who's just coasting
In post 2254, Iconeum wrote:i don't think it's someone like IV or gyp, norwee i don't know
In post 2255, Iconeum wrote:AliceK also very much an option

just copying popular reads
In post 2256, Iconeum wrote:I don't know about VP

they're never an easy read for me
In post 2257, Iconeum wrote:not sure if both scum really push my yeet here?

luca/anya contains scum
aliceK keeps hands clean from my wagon, it's possible
maybe i'm wrong about gyp, but my defensive gut feeling is telling me this is town

Obviously Ico was WIFOMing almost everyone before going down there, which doesn't mean much. But it didn't occur to me until now that Luca and Ico basically stop having many interactions after their cross votes. IDK if there is much to gather from this ICO spew the more I'm thinking about it.

Anya takes the steam out of the Ico wagon right on the edge. *smh gif of your choice
In post 2263, Anya wrote:VOTE: Alice

true that flip should be explained if she's skiing right in front of us and covering it up as ice skating
Luca very shortly after starts posting in a "work with me" type of vibe to Ico.
In post 2267, Luca Blight wrote:Icon maybe you can try and put your gypyx tr into words. I know you said it’s a gut read, but surely there’s something you can point to that leads you to Tr him? Because this is a big problem for me rn

Fypov consider that gypyx is coasting here knowing that an icon green flip reflects well on him tomorrow
So the progression is kind of slap fight > cross votes as wagon builds > back to slap fighting as wagon cools a bit

Luca also starts pushing Gypyx even though he is still voting Ico.
In post 2272, Luca Blight wrote:Well if it’s s/s then he’s basically forced to side with you here if he wants any chance of winning

I do think WK’ing is possible which is what’s concerning me here

Scum!gypyx is coasting and has been since the start. He’s got a pretty random Sr on IV but isn’t pushing it or giving an updated explanation for it?

He’s being defended by multiple slots as well for weird reasons
Then we get the Luca unvote, which is the nail in the coffin for that first Ico wagon.
In post 2285, Luca Blight wrote:Gypyx has been very much on the sidelines, Icon

UNVOTE:

For now while I mull things over
This all happens while I'm sleeping unfortunately.
In post 2305, Iconeum wrote:luca how do you feel about that alice progression on my slot that i pointed out?
^still voting Luca at this point mind you.

I'll admit, this exchange between Luca and Ico is weird in a scum!Luca situation. Like, he would have already effectively moved attention onto Gypyx, so why continue with theater at that point? Maybe that's WIFOM, I'm not sure.

Spoiler:
In post 2315, Luca Blight wrote:But scum!icon was super defensive in the scum game he just won?
In post 2316, Luca Blight wrote:I also disagree that post shows icon is aware that being defensive is a bad look

He only made that post after already being called out for being defensive rather than providing content

plus nothing in that posts suggests he thinks it’s a particularly bad thing to do as scum?
In post 2317, Iconeum wrote:i really don't wanna keep playing this card but like

luca

you *just* played a game with scum!me
i was under a TON of pressure day 1

did i respond so badly there?
i'm not saying you should townread me for it but using it as a means to scumread me is just wrong

*pedit
reallly? i think i was super agressive, not defensive?
In post 2320, Luca Blight wrote:I'm not SR'ing you for that though, Icon. It's mainly for lack of input + your George vote + your omgus against me

As I said I don't feel comfortable using meta as a yardstick for reading you as it's been a long time since I played with town!Icon


Gah! I feel like Luca was playing me a bit. Look at this sheeping me again after I come back from over night:
In post 2347, VP Baltar wrote:Lots of pages overnight. That's an improvement at least.

Look, I think Ico and Gypyx are either scum, or being kind of babies about fair questions from Luca. This defense of 'he doesn't want answers' is complete gaslighting. He isn't being unreasonable or even pushing that hard. Gypyx stalling for time basically everytime he gets asked a question bugs the hell out of me. *cough cough* George*cough*

I momentarily considered whether Geraint is getting too much of a free pass here, but I actually came to many of the same wagon conclusions he did in that last post.

I have a very hard time believing there are zero scum in {Ico, gypyx, IV}.

I may be willing to consider making Gypyx and IV the dueling wagons today.


In regards to Alice's progression...from what Ico posted, that doesn't look great. I'd need to ISO alice for full context though. I also think it is worth noting Alice is a noob, and sometimes unexplained progressions happen.
In post 2355, Luca Blight wrote:I’m starting to think it might be something like
gypyx/IV
And Norwegian posts this. I have a very hard time seeing this coming from scum at this point in the day when there is a very real opportunity to push away from Ico.
In post 2377, NorwegianboyEE wrote:I don't really feel like Ico's towntold so i'm not really understanding why Gypyx is gaining votes again.

Somehow, Ico moved up to near null status for Luca. I have no idea why that is at this point in the day.
In post 2447, Luca Blight wrote:I'm considering all of these players town for now:

Not_Mafia, Norwee, Baltar
geraint

That leaves:

Gypyx
Iconeum

innocentvillager
Anya
AliceK

Right now I'm really not sure who I want yeeted out of this lot. I have a little time now so I'll go through the suspects and see if anything jumps out
And this is the conclusion of the Ico wagon, with the vote count almost directly preceding my vote. I think it's pretty clear here that I was the tipping force on the Ico wagon given that Anya/Alice had no juice in the game and I could have pushed toward IV at that point if I had wanted to.
In post 2514, Sirius9121 wrote:
Official Vote Count


Iconeum
(4): innocentvillager, Not_Mafia, Anya, AliceK
innocentvillager
(3): Gypyx, geraintm, Luca Blight
Gypyx
(1): VP Baltar
AliceK
(1): Iconeum

Not Voting
(1): NorwegianboyEE

With 10 alive, it takes 6 to end someone's subscription to death.

Deadline
: (expired on 2021-05-03 10:38:00)
In post 2516, VP Baltar wrote:UNVOTE:
VOTE: Iconeum

I'm going to be busy with work much of today and tomorrow. I don't think there is a world where we should yeet IV before Ico. They kind of have similar points against them around the George wagon, but IV is probably contributing more toward pushing the game forward.
Not Mafia fake hammers, which is a pro-town move at that point.
In post 2518, Not_Mafia wrote:VOTE: Iconeum
Luca keeps arguing with IV and Norwegian basically said he can't see IV at that point and hammers.

This exchange also gives me pause. Why would scum!Luca say this?
In post 2550, Luca Blight wrote:Was there a need to hammer while we're still discussing, Norwee :/
In post 2552, NorwegianboyEE wrote:
In post 2550, Luca Blight wrote:Was there a need to hammer while we're still discussing, Norwee :/
It didn't seem all that important.


I was kind of hoping by reviewing D2 I'd have a very clear insight into who was scum here, but that hammer exchange...damn. I'll look at the Geraintm wagon next. That seems like it might help?
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Post Post #2874 (isolation #347) » Mon May 17, 2021 7:26 am

Post by VP Baltar »

Ok, I reread D3, which is mercifully shorter.

I won't do another giant wall post because nobody actually wants to read that.

What I saw D3 was Norwegian hard pushing geraintm. A point in his favor is that at the end of D2, he was already saying he suspected gertaintm if Ico flips scum. That seems maybe less likely for scum to do? Not impossible, but maybe unlikely to call your shot earlier than you need to.

Luca definitely argues both geraintm and Gypyx that day, but ultimately does more arguing for a geraintm yeet...which maybe pings me a little in hindsight given he claimed to have wanted to yeet Gypyx on the day Ico was yeeted, and I don't think (could be wrong here, going from memory) that Luca wanted or suspected geraintm before D3.

My position D3 was very clear on D3. I wanted Gypyx first and felt like geraintm was being very goofy town.

I'll probably look at the George Baily wagon again one more time before I vote, but I'm leaning toward Luca being the last scum here.
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Post Post #2876 (isolation #348) » Mon May 17, 2021 7:30 am

Post by VP Baltar »

In post 2482, NorwegianboyEE wrote:I don’t really want a hammer yet and i have no idea how many votes are on who atm.
UNVOTE:
Norwegian, can you explain this unvote of Ico on D2 to me? What were you hoping to gain here. You ended up only making a few posts between this and your final vote.
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Post Post #2881 (isolation #349) » Mon May 17, 2021 9:27 am

Post by VP Baltar »

In post 2880, NorwegianboyEE wrote:I really hope this is right as i haven't put this much effort into a game in a long while.
Appreciate the effort if you're town. I had to go mow my yard, but I'm going to ISO D1 with George, Ico, you and Luca shortly. I'll report back in a bit.
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Post Post #2882 (isolation #350) » Mon May 17, 2021 10:50 am

Post by VP Baltar »

I hate both of you for this exchange. -_______-
In post 825, Luca Blight wrote:
In post 822, NorwegianboyEE wrote:
In post 821, Luca Blight wrote:I could see George and gypyx being partners actually
Because Gypyx is being kind awkward about George?
Also based on George’s post where he voted gypyx. It felt a bit off, and gypyx’s response seemed a bit strange as well like they were distancing but treating each other with kid gloves. George’s vote wasn’t particularly threatening as no-one else was voting gypyx and no-one is likely to sheep George.

Gypyx then limps onto this George wagon without conviction. It seems like possible half-hearted bussing to me
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Post Post #2883 (isolation #351) » Mon May 17, 2021 10:52 am

Post by VP Baltar »

In post 800, VP Baltar wrote:The Ico wagon rose and fell very quickly, which suggests to me some kind of scum movement on one side of that. No clue which side.
Ahahahaha, this increasingly looks like it was an all two speed yeet. We just got scared.

God, I had some bad takes this game.
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Post Post #2884 (isolation #352) » Mon May 17, 2021 11:00 am

Post by VP Baltar »

In post 1467, NorwegianboyEE wrote:VOTE: GeorgeBailey
Ok Luca, IV. Let’s get some wagon competition going. Still not really townleaning Anya, but am disliking George so why not have some wagon competition.
Lack of vote counts this game is a pain, but this is Norwegian switching off the leading wagon onto George with little need to if he's scum.
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Post Post #2885 (isolation #353) » Mon May 17, 2021 11:02 am

Post by VP Baltar »

In post 1526, NorwegianboyEE wrote:I’d vote to kill Anya but i feel like George’s post could be indicative of town!Anya if George is scum?
If it’s George’s scum partner, then it is at the very least. An extremely poor defense.
In post 1528, NorwegianboyEE wrote:Well. I feel like George is scummy, not by meta since he usually at least chooses to play when i’ve been scum with him. But just in general because wtf is he doing if town. At least fucking play.
In post 1529, NorwegianboyEE wrote:Actually there was that one game where he posted consequently a lot of posts in a short time period, and then went inactive. Which is kinda similar to the pattern exhibited here.
Achievement unlocked mafia. Check that for his scum meta. viewtopic.php?f=84&t=83676
Plus Norway makes a series of posts actually defending the vote and they are fairly persuasive...yeah, that's not super likely scum play Day 1 unless Norway planned to bus both partners hard this game. Not saying that's not possible (modded a game way back where that strat was hugely successful for the surviving scum victory), but it's not an easy play to pull off naturally.
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Post Post #2886 (isolation #354) » Mon May 17, 2021 11:08 am

Post by VP Baltar »

Yeah, I'm feeling pretty confident Luca is scum here. I think Norwegian is right that Luca tried to get town cred for a vote that said "I'm sheeping Norway". That's pretty bunk to be honest.

I also forgot how D1 Luca was begging Datisi to townread him constantly. D2 on the balance, Luca looks worse from my giant wall imo. D3, you both pushed geraintm, which isn't great, but Norwegian seemed to have more real conviction there and Luca's scum read on that slot kind of seemed to be following other players.

I will wait to vote until Luca has a chance to post and respond, but that's spiritually where my vote is currently.
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Post Post #2887 (isolation #355) » Mon May 17, 2021 11:09 am

Post by VP Baltar »

also, I spent half my day off reading this game and I'm stopping now lol.
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Post Post #2895 (isolation #356) » Mon May 17, 2021 2:39 pm

Post by VP Baltar »

In post 2891, Luca Blight wrote:Norwee is obvtown btw so my vote will definitely be on Baltar,
I have a hard time seeing this mindset from town. I literally spent 4 hours rereading today to double check my feelings here and you come in with no work and say I have to be scum? That's some serious confidence.
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Post Post #2902 (isolation #357) » Mon May 17, 2021 3:34 pm

Post by VP Baltar »

In post 2898, Luca Blight wrote:
In post 2895, VP Baltar wrote:
In post 2891, Luca Blight wrote:Norwee is obvtown btw so my vote will definitely be on Baltar,
I have a hard time seeing this mindset from town.
I literally spent 4 hours rereading today to double check my feelings
here and you come in with no work and say I have to be scum? That's some serious confidence.
Nice
LAMIST
btw
Man, you can look at the timestamps on my posts and see I'm telling the truth.
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Post Post #2905 (isolation #358) » Mon May 17, 2021 3:42 pm

Post by VP Baltar »

If you're seriously town here, I need to see that. I don't want to lose to a deep wolf.
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Post Post #2907 (isolation #359) » Mon May 17, 2021 3:49 pm

Post by VP Baltar »

VOTE: Luca

Here we go then
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Post Post #2910 (isolation #360) » Mon May 17, 2021 5:49 pm

Post by VP Baltar »

In post 2909, NorwegianboyEE wrote:Fingers crossed.
VOTE: Luca Blight
I'm town
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Post Post #2917 (isolation #361) » Mon May 17, 2021 6:12 pm

Post by VP Baltar »

Ah well. I stand by my motto that I can't make other people play
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Post Post #2919 (isolation #362) » Mon May 17, 2021 6:13 pm

Post by VP Baltar »

Thanks for picking up modding Sirius!
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Post Post #2928 (isolation #363) » Mon May 17, 2021 6:33 pm

Post by VP Baltar »

In post 2923, NorwegianboyEE wrote:
In post 2922, Luca Blight wrote:It’s quite ridiculous how we didn’t at least no-lim today btw but oh well
I intentionally brought N_M here so i would have a conf!town to murder assuming we no limmed.
Precisely so another Large 231 situation wouldn't happen again.
This basically. Would have been the same Xylo regardless
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Post Post #2931 (isolation #364) » Mon May 17, 2021 6:39 pm

Post by VP Baltar »

In post 2930, Luca Blight wrote:But most likely you would have voted me I guess
I'm always open to reconsider, but yeah I think you looked like more connections to the scum
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Post Post #2945 (isolation #365) » Tue May 18, 2021 3:17 am

Post by VP Baltar »

Datisi, every time you said in the dead thread "glad I'm dead, lol" I became more and more jealous.

I was hoping to be Naked since like D2 of this game because I am absolutely shit at a proper read in Xylo. We probably should have no limed, but I was pretty tired of playing this game by the end.

gg scum. Satisfying to come from behind like that. The geraintm lim was town's big mistake and shouldn't have happened.
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Post Post #2947 (isolation #366) » Tue May 18, 2021 4:34 am

Post by VP Baltar »

In post 2945, VP Baltar wrote:Naked
Well that's an autocorrect from NKed :oops:
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Post Post #2948 (isolation #367) » Tue May 18, 2021 7:24 am

Post by VP Baltar »

In post 2946, Datisi wrote:
In post 2945, VP Baltar wrote:Datisi, every time you said in the dead thread "glad I'm dead, lol" I became more and more jealous.
> invites baltar to play mafia with me
> we both roll town
> i get strongmanned night one
> he lives to 4p mylo

yeet
It was good while it lasted! I was coming around on you as locktown, but I did sort of assume you wouldn't see D2. If we are both town, I think it would be impossible for us to ever survive very long together haha
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Post Post #2950 (isolation #368) » Tue May 18, 2021 9:06 am

Post by VP Baltar »

In post 2949, Datisi wrote:
In post 2948, VP Baltar wrote:If we are both town, I think it would be impossible for us to ever survive very long together haha
next time i roll town in a game w you, i'm not even gonna bother reading your posts

if we're both alive past n2, you're scum, ez game
Ditto :lol:
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Post Post #2951 (isolation #369) » Tue May 18, 2021 9:07 am

Post by VP Baltar »

I'm too wrong constantly to get NKed. I feel like I make it to Xylo regularly and lose it for town.

Case in point ~ gestures broadly ~
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