Open 810 | Aliensitter Needed! | Mafia wins

[GrandpaMo]

you forgot me smh. im voting you for not looking into the future

VOTE: VFP

btw hey t3 and pooky!! nice playing again with you all

[GrandpaMo]

i have a N0 guilty on bingle

VOTE: bingle

Claim serial killer. If you leave me alive I promise to shoot Menalque. Show of hands, who doesn’t want that?

dw we kill mena d2

[GrandpaMo]

VOTE: pooky

This asshole won’t get out of my backpack and keeps making me carry him.

ITS UNFORTUNATE WE ARE NEVER ON THE SAME SIDE BINGS

never seen this from pooky before:o

[GrandpaMo]

VOTE: professor drapion

This might actually be scum lol

is it because of post 35? lmao

[GrandpaMo]

VOTE: pooky

This asshole won’t get out of my backpack and keeps making me carry him.

ITS UNFORTUNATE WE ARE NEVER ON THE SAME SIDE BINGS

Hey, look. I tried my hardest to defend your team in impeachment. You all just kept getting caught on tape. You can’t pin that on me.

this is day pt not scum pt . go talk to pooky there smh

[GrandpaMo]

Optimal play is for baby to target Allen and Allen to aim for scrum.

We all pseudoclaim a psych inno D2 and maybe later day phases on the basis of how kills pan out. psych claims immediately if has guilty (although letting pseudoclaims happen is reasonable for extra analysis fodder). Mafia likely use the roleblocker to kill n1 as they are most valuable. They also likely don’t target with their roleblock N1, as it is greater utility as the game proceeds.

No more mech discussion, including clarification about scum action optimization or WHY I would share such action optimization is appropriate on D1.

So I have a spicy tinfoil theory. I think that professor Drapion is not actually a drapion at all and is a robot attempting to pretend to be a drapion for the purposes of making achieving a professorship more impressive. I know, I know, this is all very farfetch’d, but I do have evidence.

Firstly, drapion has been established to evolve at level 40, which as everyone knows is a very rare occurrence in a game of mafia. Usually you have to have several weirdos running conflicting gambits to even get close to level 10 play. I find it very unlikely that someone with no completed games has managed to pull of a high enough level maneuver to evolve.

He COULD be a naturally occurring drapion, as drapion have been encountered in many places. This is exceedingly unlikely on the basis that there have been 0 wild drapion sightings in Central Park. Indeed, there aren’t even any confirmed drapion sightings in the greater New York area. Occams suggests that such a large Pokémon would have been spotted at least once during its migration.

Furthermore, when I began quoting music from Pokémon soundtracks, drapion remained ignorant of the context and didn’t respond to his supposed people’s music. I find this very suspicious.

Thirdly, when preparing to battle Mena, drapion mentioned that his claw was ready. Claw: singular, not plural. As everyone knows, drapion as a species has two claws, four spiked limbs and a scorpion like tail. This lack of biological familiarity with his supposed species is highly suspicious.

Finally, it is common knowledge that very few Pokémon have learned to speak proper English. Among those who have, a predilection towards using their own species name (such as the famous Team Rocket Meowth) is still common. drapion has shown a distinct lack of these behaviors. Clearly, the preponderance of evidence shows: Drapion must be a robot.

Now Bingle, got any other early reads?

Mena slightly scummy, pooky low priority, your slot has tells but I need to wait for the psych evaluation result to determine if they’re scummy or towny. Dann strongest townread. I’d be voting lukewarm if I weren’t voting gypyx, but I think the gypyx wagon is more likely to be spicy atm.

You?

So through these analytical posts... I don't think mafia goes out in their way to actually give out on what town does. Mafia specifically in this setup where it is their job to figure out PRs does not give PRs help unless its direct manipulation to favor a specific result. However, seeing what Bingle has said, I doubt there is a world where Bingle actually does this as mafia. Looking back at their older games, they seem the same as their townplaystyle. Also their continued aggression and coherent reads are okay, there is some I disagree with however and I will explain later.

Now Bingle, got any other early reads?

Mena slightly scummy, pooky low priority, your slot has tells but I need to wait for the psych evaluation result to determine if they’re scummy or towny. Dann strongest townread. I’d be voting lukewarm if I weren’t voting gypyx, but I think the gypyx wagon is more likely to be spicy atm.

You?

I liked the way Mena went about my slot when they voted me. It doesn’t seem to be “faked” per say. So I would slightly TR Mena there.

I personally like the way VFP has handled the thread. Not much content but it felt genuine. More of a gut read then anything but I trust it at least for now.

T3’s entrance wasn’t entirely bad but it was definitely not a great entrance. I’ll probably watch this slot and it’s progression towards Pooky.

As for Pooky themselves, well. I’m not really sure where to put them. From the majority of what I seen, their agenda is just Sheeping Mena.

I think your first big post (the one with the Psyc Check thing) felt towny. I want to vote with you for now and see where it goes and see further progression towards your slot.

As for Gypyx, I don’t know.
His first post seemed like jealous of me taken his spotlight.
His other posts haven’t really done much.
I believe 3 were Filler and the other was a turn down towards your Psych Plan Bingle. (If I remember correctly.)

Going back and giving these actual insight of reads (since they are being pushed). I agree with the Mena townread, mafia is less likely to push and interact with people. They were the first people to give a read and I actually gave a comment on that early on. Your read on Gypx feels artificial meaning that you tried to spew any information to make Gypyx look mafia alligned. If you are mafia, you could just be bussing, or making Gypyx (someone who would town) look scum as possible. But that conclusion is very debatable and not coherent until EoD or whatever stage in the game we are.

Oh if it’s hectic it’s not so bad

I thought prof was a newbie (prof do you have any pronoun preference?)

Shadow Claw

I do, He/Pokemon

VOTE: Professor

Claims he is a pokemon, but he can talk. The first pokemon I think of that can talk, is in fact,

A CRIMINAL

Checkmate.

This is a really weird entrance. I think something that should be noticed. They come into the game with a read already done being made on Prof. They vote them and probably make some random meme excuse as mafia. I will explain later with another read on why Lukewarm is my scumread here.

VOTE: professor drapion

This might actually be scum lol

Looking at post 41, this is a very towny entrance from Mena and like I said why I townread Mena from early game. Mafia is more inclined to just stay back and let town push and interact members. However, they could be experienced enough to just do that as Mafia. But usually from the games I have played in, this is what I have been through and seen and it is usually right; early pushes (especially the first player) tend to be town. Also something to remark, is that if Drap is scum this is the only reference I see them scum in early game and that is in post 35. I replied to Mena hoping for an answer on this, but no answer sadly.

VOTE: gypx

guys gypyx and bingle are scum together

Honestly, this is a bad pairing for this reason. I doubt mafia busses day 1 in this setup. Bingle is hard pushing Gypyx and while everyone is pushing Drap, Bingle is staying on with a read that they think Gypyx is scum (look at post 99 where they they say a Gypx BW is more spicy implying wanting it more). This is a weird enterence too but at least its better than lukewarm's enterence. You are still null since you haven't done nothing that scummy right after.

Hmmm. Too many scum reads, not enough time. Monkey get your ass in here, I have need of you.

Lukewarm, do you have any non-pokemon related thoughts on any players yet?

Yeah. I am actually suspicious of Bingle making the suggestion for the psych to automatically out a guilty result. Because imo, that seems more likely to out the sitter then to out mafia.

I think that they know that too, because they were in the Open Setup review of the game that the mod linked to in the first post, and there they talked about the Psych having "a fake inno and a fake guilty on a questionable reliability investigative."

So from my PoV, Bingle came out with some anti-town advice, and then said for no one to question them

Let me give you a quick rundown on how Bingle do.

Bingle will argue the optimal strategy for town as he sees it, regardless of his alignment. Bingle is good at mechanics speak. Bingle is very good at mechanics speak. Bingle is widely regarded as among the best at mechanics on site. Bingle has said, specifically, that there are a bunch of things that are mechanically optimal, and that we should not discuss mechanics speak further for the rest of the day.

Either, Bingle is telling the truth that this is a protown maneuver or Bingle is crippling his ability to lean into mechanics speak, setting himself up to be questioned thoroughly on not D1 (historically the day when Bingle wants to be questioned in order to establish himself), and taking a harsh departure from what is a tried and true strategy Bingle has used as both town and scum for literally years to a pretty good result in a lobby that is at least half full of people who know Bingle pretty well.

Feel free to scumread me for it (I in fact enjoy scumreads, they are delicious) but we are done talking mech for D1.

The amazing "Feel free to scumread me for it" is the most towniest IF AND ONLY IF it used after a analytical post has been made. I have also seen this in games and I do it to and they are town. This is because of your mind saying "hey, I am writing this for you as town and I want you to read it as me for town. Why scumread me when in my perception, what I am doing is town." Basically some psychology of perception and how you perceive vs the other party perceives it. You get more townpings for this. No need for mafia to write that much on optimal gameplay.

I am actually a little confused how the psychologist role helps us in this set up.

If he can get a "can kill" result on the baby sitter, but gets a "not able to kill" result on the cowardly mafia + any mafia that has already committed a kill, then on day 1 wouldn't a "can kill" result be a 50/50 chance at being the babysitter or mafia. And then starting on Day 2, they will basically be getting "is babysitter" and "is not babysitter" results, right?

That makes me question this advice given by Bingle

Optimal play is for baby to target Allen and Allen to aim for scrum.

We all pseudoclaim a psych inno D2 and maybe later day phases on the basis of how kills pan out.

psych claims immediately if has guilty

I do have to comment on this though:

@Luke:

REGARDLESS OF HIS ALIGNMENT

; you should always treat Bingle's mech talk as gospel. It is accurate and indeed best play for Town. End of discussion.

Note: The above is not limited to this game. It does apply here but is a general rule of the thumb.

I actually hate this from Almost50. It almost seems like you are scumsiding to seem that you are agreeing with them as scum while Bingle is town. Maybe a pocket who knows...but what was the point of making it seem like we all should listen to you? Mafia and town will make up their own conclusions and now you are leaving Bingle with no reaction testing or any pressure of the person they were asking this to, for example, Lukewarm. I will explain later on why Lukewarm has been acting a certain way and the reaction actually to this post seems very very off.

Town:

Dannflor
T3
PookyTheMagicalBear
Almost50

Needs more content before being arbitrarily shuffled into a pile:

GrandpaMo
ManWithNoName
Pine

Scum:

Lukewarm
VFP
Menalque
ProfessorDrapion
Gypyx

Yes. All nine of those are genuine reads with genuine reasoning. I'm not going to bother explaining most of them at the moment, and they're loosely ordered based on how accurate my gut says they might be.

Okay. So the only real townread I agree with you here is T3.

I also think VFP and Mena are town.

VFP is playing way similary to the game I have played in and has so far not been focused on interactions with anyone else. I don't seem being mafia with someone. Mena, I already explained the towny posts. And T3 has just been also the same as VFP; playing similiary (and I know I am meta reading and sometimes it is a pain in the ass but their actual interactions same with VFP have been towny.) FWIW; the only time VFP is mafia is if they are mafia with T3 (and extra third mafia) which I doubt this is the case.

The more null reads is Pooky, Danna, Gypx, Darp.

Pooky is playing way different than what I have played with them before in Newbie 2059. And honestly it feels weird to me. Their constant non-argumentative status is bringing no information to town and thats why they are null... I need to hear more information on this. Danna I already have explained above.

And okay so Gypx and Darp; it seems everyone is pushing those two. Honestly I could them either or flipping scum and I actually think there could be scum in between. I already explained more on Darp and Gypx has played way more towny on Gypx but Darp could also be falling in the newbie trap. Third mafia could be in that pair assuming Pooky and Danna are town.

And scumreads consist of Lukewarm and Almost50.

And these reads; I have explained their scummy entrances and I will further exemplify Lukewarm's scumread on a later post that I have added but basically Bingle gives info against Lukewarm because Lukewarm pushed the narrative of why psych outting in which Almost50 made that post and I gave my reason on why they were scum above btw!! But after that post from Almost50, lukewarm instantly backs down. And it seems like mafia tried to push this narrative where they didn't want psych to out because they could set up a CC later hence why Almost50 tried to signal them to backdown; it would be more of wifom to say it in day chat.

I could be overreaching on this pairing but there is definitely scum between and both could be paired through my reasoning.

I am actually a little confused how the psychologist role helps us in this set up.

If he can get a "can kill" result on the baby sitter, but gets a "not able to kill" result on the cowardly mafia + any mafia that has already committed a kill, then on day 1 wouldn't a "can kill" result be a 50/50 chance at being the babysitter or mafia. And then starting on Day 2, they will basically be getting "is babysitter" and "is not babysitter" results, right?

That makes me question this advice given by Bingle

Optimal play is for baby to target Allen and Allen to aim for scrum.

We all pseudoclaim a psych inno D2 and maybe later day phases on the basis of how kills pan out.

psych claims immediately if has guilty

I do have to comment on this though:

@Luke:

REGARDLESS OF HIS ALIGNMENT

; you should always treat Bingle's mech talk as gospel. It is accurate and indeed best play for Town. End of discussion.

Note: The above is not limited to this game. It does apply here but is a general rule of the thumb.

I have never played a game with Bingle, so I guess I will take your work for it for now. His advice doesn't really come into play until day 2 anyways, so we can talk about it then.

This is the post that I was referencing on why Luke could be scum. Them backing down after pressure.

VOTE: Professor

I know that he was my RVS vote, but now I actually have a scumlean on him

Also look at this... "RVS vote but now I actually scumread them" Sounds like a blantant way to BW on this vote. Tell me why do you scumread Drap, is it because everyone is? I don't see any reason for you to be voting them right now.

[GrandpaMo]

Good Post!

I'll take your word for it. I never read wallposts myself.

Okay. If you actually tend to read me in the future. Don't make any BS claims. All reads I have posted is in that under Bingle's reads if you want a TLDR.

Stop being a passive ass mafia.

[GrandpaMo]

Good Post!

What do you think of my reads? Don't just say good post. Explain why its good and give reasoning. Please and thank you.

[GrandpaMo]

My current solve is VPN, Gypyx, and that angry Gran'pa guy. (Who posts in red? SCUM DO. But

seriously

; why am I scum to them? BECAUSE I SCUM READ BOTH THEIR BIDDIES. Simple).

No? I townread VPF and see scum between Gypx and Darp. Again if you are willing to make a read on me, then please read what I have said and not make assumptions. This is exactly why I said what I said earlier.

[GrandpaMo]

Also I explained why I scumread you lol in depth actually.

[GrandpaMo]

(A50 said he SR’s VPN not you, if that makes things more clear)

He put me as the solve. Probably just to see my reaction. My gamesolve is Lukewarm/A50/ >>> There is a world where A50 is paired with Pooky just because of openly defending. That means that would make Gypx and Darp both town which is a weird read honestly. I still need to get info.

[GrandpaMo]

Well in your case you’d say “You and Gypyx”.
Which would refer to me.

I always like to notice people in 3rd person just in case anything might happen and someone may take my words out of context etc. I hate when, I as a townsmember, gets pushed for something out of that sort.

[GrandpaMo]

(A50 said he SR’s VPN not you, if that makes things more clear)

He put me as the solve. Probably just to see my reaction. My gamesolve is Lukewarm/A50/ >>> There is a world where A50 is paired with Pooky just because of openly defending. That means that would make Gypx and Darp both town which is a weird read honestly. I still need to get info.

I’m “Drap”

Spoiler:

not Darp

. And you don’t need to express the post in 3rd Person since your responding directly to me. I’m Drap so just say me and Gypyx not Drap and Gypyx.

Sorry. Drap* Same thing. Mistakes happen.

[GrandpaMo]

mena better carry me hard this game or hes scumbag

Gosh dammit Pooky.

[GrandpaMo]

@Grandpa: You SR me. That much I know is a bad read (let's assume you are a townie here). I don't know you from before so I have no other reference to evaluate the quality of your reads (like, are usually bad, or you usually have a 50% hit rate, or you tunnel, or you think in a different way than most do.. etc). Since this is the case; I can only ignore your reads (and the reasoning behind them) until further notice.

Let me give you an example: I know exactly why Pooky TRs my outburst. He was Scum with me before. He was Scum AGAINST Town me before. I was Scum against Town him before. We know what to expect from each other (well, aside from the usual 1-on-1 manipulation and what not).

I know to follow Bingle's mechanical advice regardless. I have appealed to him before -me being a townie

knowing

suspecting he was Scum- to give me the optimal mechanical play because

I know

he wouldn't lie about this one bit.

Hell, in TM2021 I appealed to him (through his teammate playing in my game) to give a read on me, knowing (and explicitly saying) I may appear less townie than the first iteration to many, but to Bingle I am even townier in the second iteration. (First iteration got abandoned and we played the game all over again).

You are one of exactly 3 players in this game who have not met me before (the other two being Luke & Prof), so I don't hold it against you to theorize what you will about my play.

As for not reading post walls, that's nothing personal. Everyone knows I don't read mastina's posts (one example of a player who likes to do wall after wall). Even she doesn't hold it against me. I hate walls and tend to lose concentration while trying to read them.

Bottom line: You are free to SR me all you wnat, and you can make all cases/assumption your heart desires. Just do it with respect. Thank you (and I apologize for snapping at you, but I didn't like the tone of your post directed at me).

Sorry for the passive aggressive tone. I apologize. I don't mean to make it seem like I am pushing you out of spite. And ofc we can call each other read's bad because it is wrong in that perception. I look at the reasoning behind reads and see if they are well equipped with a town mindset. In my case, I thought what you did was scum and how you played along the interaction with Bingle and Pooky. I can go ahead and go meta read which I probably will so I can look at how you usually play and interact with others. I find it more with a town mindset to actually to give input on reads so you saying "I can only ignore your reads (and the reasoning) until further notice" is a little of scum mindset however you did say until further notice. I don't know explciitly what that means but I will give you the benefit of the doubt that later on maybe you will give input regardless of someone's reads on you etc. And yes I said that Bingle was town for giving the optimal play and I saw this as a good read. However, it just seemed weird especially with you and Lukewarm. Also there is references you could use and that could be meta anaylsis. Look at my previous games I have played town and etc. That is sort of bias which is eh, but to reiterate; it will give some insight onto how I could be town in your eyes.

Question: How do you feel about lukewarm?

[GrandpaMo]

(A50 said he SR’s VPN not you, if that makes things more clear)

He put me as the solve. Probably just to see my reaction. My gamesolve is Lukewarm/A50/ >>> There is a world where A50 is paired with Pooky just because of openly defending. That means that would make Gypx and Darp both town which is a weird read honestly. I still need to get info.

This is what Flavor Leaf (another top player on this site) would call "surface level logic". Just because someone defends another doesn't necessarily link them in any way, shape or form.

And -on fact- it is contradictory to your theory about me defending TOWN Bingle (as per your own assumptions). So, tell this: How come Pooky is Scum with me for defending me, and Bingle is Town because I defended him? (Take a deep breath.. look at your own propositions.. then try to answer this TO YOURSELF).

Yup. That is surface level logic and I implied it here... "just because of openly defending" Trust me, you would expect amazing plays from pooky but honestly from the town playstyle I have seen pooky play, it seems quite different. I was pointing out a world where Pooky is scum and that is because I had pooky in my null read because they and still can be debatable and I really need more insight towrads EoD because like in Newbie 2059 I do NOT want to shitpush you again @pooky.

[GrandpaMo]

(A50 said he SR’s VPN not you, if that makes things more clear)

He put me as the solve. Probably just to see my reaction. My gamesolve is Lukewarm/A50/ >>> There is a world where A50 is paired with Pooky just because of openly defending. That means that would make Gypx and Darp both town which is a weird read honestly. I still need to get info.

This is what Flavor Leaf (another top player on this site) would call "surface level logic". Just because someone defends another doesn't necessarily link them in any way, shape or form.

And -on fact- it is contradictory to your theory about me defending TOWN Bingle (as per your own assumptions). So, tell this: How come Pooky is Scum with me for defending me, and Bingle is Town because I defended him? (Take a deep breath.. look at your own propositions.. then try to answer this TO YOURSELF).

Not once have I pointed out that you were defending Bingle. Please read my analysis and look at really why I townread Bingle. I never townread bingle because you were trying to "defend" or whatever you are saying here. I was scum leaning you because it makes it seem like you were tryna scumside with Bingle and pocket Bingle.

[GrandpaMo]

Good Post!

I'll take your word for it. I never read wallposts myself.

Okay. If you actually tend to read me in the future. Don't make any BS claims. All reads I have posted is in that under Bingle's reads if you want a TLDR.

Stop being a passive ass mafia.

Wow. Much of the Dark Side I sense in you. Calm down you should. And -most of all- BEHAVE or I'll MAKE YOU.

I just saw this. Lol, and sorry I get frustrated when people don't read and comprehend what I said especially in my wallposts because I spend so much time writing them.

[GrandpaMo]

So through these analytical posts... I don't think mafia goes out in their way to actually give out on what town does. Mafia specifically in this setup where it is their job to figure out PRs does not give PRs help unless its direct manipulation to favor a specific result. However, seeing what Bingle has said, I doubt there is a world where Bingle actually does this as mafia. Looking back at their older games, they seem the same as their townplaystyle. Also their continued aggression and coherent reads are okay, there is some I disagree with however and I will explain later.

Exactly wrong. Scum loves to hide in mechspeak.

Eh this early? I doubt that. I still townread you. You wouldn't be risking that as scum.

Looking at post 41, this is a very towny entrance from Mena and like I said why I townread Mena from early game. Mafia is more inclined to just stay back and let town push and interact members. However, they could be experienced enough to just do that as Mafia. But usually from the games I have played in, this is what I have been through and seen and it is usually right; early pushes (especially the first player) tend to be town. Also something to remark, is that if Drap is scum this is the only reference I see them scum in early game and that is in post 35. I replied to Mena hoping for an answer on this, but no answer sadly.

No.

? This wasn't directed at you anywhere.

Honestly, this is a bad pairing for this reason. I doubt mafia busses day 1 in this setup. Bingle is hard pushing Gypyx and while everyone is pushing Drap, Bingle is staying on with a read that they think Gypyx is scum (look at post 99 where they they say a Gypx BW is more spicy implying wanting it more). This is a weird entrance too but at least its better than lukewarm's enterence. You are still null since you haven't done nothing that scummy right after.

I... What? Dann's read is bad because I pushed Gypyx afterwards? What?

Yes. I don't know where you got that logic of "afterwards" but I stated just how you saw me pairing luke + monkey is a bad pairing. I am obliged to say Dann pairing you and Gypx is bad because of the fact that you were solely pushing Gypx and I doubt mafia would take that chance to bus day 1 when there was already a scum narrative being pushed against Drap. I thought I made that clear.

The next two bits of analysis are A50 and me saying functionally the same thing about me, and a townread on me + scumread on A50 for it.

There is a difference. You initiated it and you are the actual read for it. That is a fallacy because you are stating about you are self. A50 is not you and is another member of this game so of course there will be a different reasoning based on what you said. What logic are you trying to prove? I explained why and I am keen to believe it could be true.

I'm fascinated how g-pa knows he disagrees with all of my reads when I've given reasoning for very few of them, but the preflip pairing of Luke and Monkey is p gross.

You are trying to make it seem like I am scumreading you for having wrong reads. I just disagreed and gave my reads with MY reasoning which should tell you why I disagree...again what the fuck logic is this. We agreed on like 2 some reads.

148 is a fine post and being willing to back down isn't inherently scummy at all.

Can you explain why?

[GrandpaMo]

Grandpa, I am a bit confused by your logic on me tbh.

This is a really weird entrance. I think something that should be noticed. They come into the game with a read already done being made on Prof. They vote them and probably make some random meme excuse as mafia.

Post 79 Im not sure why you are taking it so seriously. I did not have a read whatso ever on ProfessorDrapion at the time, I think it was quite obviously my RVS vote. And I am just curious why you honed in on my RVS in particular. Gypyx rvs'ed professor for saying "first." VFP voted T3 with no reason.

You

voted VFP for not being able to see the future. I voted Professor because he claimed to be a talking pokemon. I am curious, what made you take my RVS serious compared to all of these others?

That is because there were already reads being made on Drap. I do not know if you looked at those reads previously and realized there were votes being made. So it just seemed you were sheeping from my perspective and just would claim RVS (the second part of your quote) as an excuse to vote Drap.

I will further exemplify Lukewarm's scumread on a later post that I have added but basically Bingle gives info against Lukewarm because Lukewarm pushed the narrative of why psych outting in which Almost50 made that post and I gave my reason on why they were scum above btw!! But after that post from Almost50, lukewarm instantly backs down. And it seems like mafia tried to push this narrative where they didn't want psych to out because they could set up a CC later hence why Almost50 tried to signal them to backdown; it would be more of wifom to say it in day chat.

And I cannot even follow this logic tbh.

You are saying that I saw advice coming from Bingle, that I think would out both the psych and the sitter to the thread, and then, as scum, I tried to make the case that that was bad for town instead of letting that plan play out to the benefit of the scum team? And then, A50, as my scum partner, told me to drop it in Day Chat, instead using the mafia chat?

So basically coming from a different community; I have seen this initiated through scum inhabitance. So basically what happens is 1st scum pressures town >>> Town then pressures 1st scum >>> 2nd scum hops on >>> 1st scum backs down.

That end bit could just be an overreach, I do agree and that is because of what I seen and initially they flipped scum. Honestly I actually like this post done on me and I am starting to get paranoid. However, that is what I have seen.

This chain of reasoning leaves me very confused.

Your analysis on the interaction between me and Almost50 completely ignores the fact that me and Bingle had a multiple post back and forth leading up to Almost 50 weighing in.

Again, this is where like I see it as you know you are interacting with town then scum joins in etc.

In post 117 I said that I did not like the advice given by bingle. In post 118 bingle said for me to not question him, which I found... odd. So in post 123 I said I was now suspicious of him because of that interaction.

Then why did you back down in post 148?? That was after Almost50 came and said what they said. You see now??? This is why I find you weird.

In post 129 Bingle came back and responded to my suspicions, and said that this kind of post was "a tried and true strategy Bingle has used as both town and scum for literally years to a pretty good result." Then A50 responded to the back and forth with post 134 confirming Bingle's claim that he always makes these kinds of posts, and that him doing so is NAI.

So I backed down from my stance. If he does it every game, town or mafia, then it is NAI, so why would I continue to push it?

Do you find it scummy for people to change their stances after being presented with new information?

No. I find it scummy that you are not inclined to push your scumread. You scumread them. So why would you believe someone else's claim another person? Have you done your research? Have you looked at their previosu games and saw that they do this? Probably not. So what are you willing to believe. With a town mindset, I would see you to keep pushing the person you had wanted to push and not be scared to push them. Do you understand what I am trying to get at?

[GrandpaMo]

I don’t remember you being this sheepy as town before?

That's exactly why I am null and really looking back at Newbie 2059. Pooky did this with skitter and was the reason I pushed them. That's why I am keen on pushing them lmao

[GrandpaMo]

Basically, I scumleaned him. I was given more information that indicated that the reason I scumleaned him was NAI. I moved him back to a null read.

And for some reason, you find that scummy ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

It's not what you did. It is how you did it.

[GrandpaMo]

@Pooks

I'll let you know if there's important bidness in the walls, dw.

Do you have motivation/reads yet?

im townbinning a50 and you so far

Mena gets a shiny medal as soon as he catches the first bad guy

im town too pooky. you seen me play>:(

[GrandpaMo]

Lukewarm, do you have any non-pokemon related thoughts on any players yet?

Yeah. I am actually suspicious of Bingle making the suggestion for the psych to automatically out a guilty result. Because imo, that seems more likely to out the sitter then to out mafia.

I think that they know that too, because they were in the Open Setup review of the game that the mod linked to in the first post, and there they talked about the Psych having "a fake inno and a fake guilty on a questionable reliability investigative."

So from my PoV, Bingle came out with some anti-town advice, and then said for no one to question them

Let me give you a quick rundown on how Bingle do.

Bingle will argue the optimal strategy for town as he sees it, regardless of his alignment. Bingle is good at mechanics speak. Bingle is very good at mechanics speak. Bingle is widely regarded as among the best at mechanics on site. Bingle has said, specifically, that there are a bunch of things that are mechanically optimal, and that we should not discuss mechanics speak further for the rest of the day.

Either, Bingle is telling the truth that this is a protown maneuver or Bingle is crippling his ability to lean into mechanics speak, setting himself up to be questioned thoroughly on not D1 (historically the day when Bingle wants to be questioned in order to establish himself), and taking a harsh departure from what is a tried and true strategy Bingle has used as both town and scum for literally years to a pretty good result in a lobby that is at least half full of people who know Bingle pretty well.

Feel free to scumread me for it (I in fact enjoy scumreads, they are delicious) but we are done talking mech for D1.

I am actually a little confused how the psychologist role helps us in this set up.

If he can get a "can kill" result on the baby sitter, but gets a "not able to kill" result on the cowardly mafia + any mafia that has already committed a kill, then on day 1 wouldn't a "can kill" result be a 50/50 chance at being the babysitter or mafia. And then starting on Day 2, they will basically be getting "is babysitter" and "is not babysitter" results, right?

That makes me question this advice given by Bingle

Optimal play is for baby to target Allen and Allen to aim for scrum.

We all pseudoclaim a psych inno D2 and maybe later day phases on the basis of how kills pan out.

psych claims immediately if has guilty

I do have to comment on this though:

@Luke:

REGARDLESS OF HIS ALIGNMENT

; you should always treat Bingle's mech talk as gospel. It is accurate and indeed best play for Town. End of discussion.

Note: The above is not limited to this game. It does apply here but is a general rule of the thumb.

I am actually a little confused how the psychologist role helps us in this set up.

If he can get a "can kill" result on the baby sitter, but gets a "not able to kill" result on the cowardly mafia + any mafia that has already committed a kill, then on day 1 wouldn't a "can kill" result be a 50/50 chance at being the babysitter or mafia. And then starting on Day 2, they will basically be getting "is babysitter" and "is not babysitter" results, right?

That makes me question this advice given by Bingle

Optimal play is for baby to target Allen and Allen to aim for scrum.

We all pseudoclaim a psych inno D2 and maybe later day phases on the basis of how kills pan out.

psych claims immediately if has guilty

I do have to comment on this though:

@Luke:

REGARDLESS OF HIS ALIGNMENT

; you should always treat Bingle's mech talk as gospel. It is accurate and indeed best play for Town. End of discussion.

Note: The above is not limited to this game. It does apply here but is a general rule of the thumb.

I have never played a game with Bingle, so I guess I will take your work for it for now. His advice doesn't really come into play until day 2 anyways, so we can talk about it then.

Responding to post 196 without a quote because I hate the way you formatted that. How am I supposed to respond when your entire post is hidden inside of an older quote?

Yeah, it feels like you are not actually reading my posts, and are instead trying to make it fit to this idea you already have in your head. Almost50 had almost no influence on me dropping my scumread on Bingle.

This is why I dropped it:

what is a tried and true strategy Bingle has used as both town and scum for literally years to a pretty good result in a lobby that is at least half full of people who know Bingle pretty well.

Bingle claimed that he has done the same thing in every game he has played for years. I cannot imagine that this is a lie, because it is something that could easily be disproven by anyone willing to look back over his game history or by anyone who has played games with him in the past. I decided to move bingle back to a null read at this point, because I believed him here that it was NAI.

Almost50 chiming in was just an extra little nudge that re-accessing the situation as NAI was the right move.

Why are you lying? You keep saying "Almost50 had almost no influence on me dropping my scumread on Bingle" but you literally reply to that quote and agree with them, what am I suppose to think? (in post 148) That they didn't have influence on you? Of course I will make that claim. Just look at how you acknowledged it; it clearly seemed you were influenced by A50 here.

I quoted the other two quotes to see the chronological order of which these events followed. Bingle said somehting, A50 did too and you come out and reply to A50 acknowledging what Bingle said; idk it seems an influence to me.

Also what does the quote thing have to do with anything? Are you tyring to find petty reasons to seem like "oh scum would do this" you could literally just reply to me and quote under a different color. I needed to reply to everything you had so I can justify my reads and my reasoning. We may disagree or agree, oh well, as long as you understand what I am trying to say and I feel like you aren't right now.

[GrandpaMo]

I honestly can't shake my soul scumread on pooky.... I don't know what's different but he somehow feels off...

Smh stop sheeping me

[GrandpaMo]

Sorry I forgot to put spoiler tags up there^^

[GrandpaMo]

Snip

As the bingle in question, I can assure you that my mechspeak is literally the worst reason you could possibly have for town reading me, and your reason for townreading mena is similarly bad.

Dann expressed a partner read on Gyp and I in 84. I expressed a serious vote on gypyx in 91. 91 > 84. Therefore, saying that Dann's partner read in 85 is bad because I was voting Gypyx is... Bad.

A50 talking about my mechspeak being NAI is NAI because A50 has the required knowledge about me to know that my mechspeak is NAI which I mentioned in the post where I said that my mechspeak was NAI. NAI.

I'm not saying you're scumreading me for having wrong reads. I'm saying you think my reads are wrong without knowing why I have them, which is pretty TMI.

Townies aren't afraid to be wrong, they put out content because they believe in it.

Well I only have played like 1 full game and 1 replacement game so I am going based of what I know. Everyone so far who have tried to put themselves in a town mindset and tried to contribute with bringing up optimal gameplay in question turns out to be town. You pushing me for this is giving me more reason to townread you lol. I was just saying that your early game is one of the reason I townread you. Same with Mena; I have seen town only pressure voting and especially being the first read of the game seems pretty towny and it's not even just that, it is the fact that we both thought of the same thing of post 35 of what Drap said(I am not to sure tho because Mena never answered my question). I think my townreads are good and I think my reasoning is good. You can disagree with them and that's fine, I will be making conclusions based on how you react, interact, and base of other reads. You also make a great point "townies aren't afriad to be wrong, they put out content because they believe in it" which Mena did and you did as well and I as well really on Luke and A50. <<< That read is probably going to change though.

Wether your mechspeak is NAI or what... I just find that you have gave viable info for town in this game. I am not referencing your previous games and etc. I am only focusing on this game. Now I can do a full analysis on previous games if you really want me to and I can post on how I feel on it but that's up to you.

[GrandpaMo]

Why are you lying?

Okay, I am done interacting with you over this one comment tbh.

I'll say it lay it out one last time before I start hard ignoring this topic: Bingle's claim that he has done it in every game game for years was enough for me to decide that it was NAI. Before I got caught up on the thread,

I also read Almost50's post, which further confirmed it should be NAI.

Bingle made a statement, and that statement would be a dumb lie to tell. I mean if it was a lie, it could have be easily disproven by anyone willing to read his backlog (or by any of the people who have obviously played with him before) and therefore I decided to believe it.

Why should I not have believed his claim that he does that every game? If you are trying to say that it is indicative of me being scum, then you need to explain why town!Luke would not have reacted the exact same way.

Believe me or don't believe me, but I don't know what else there is to say on the matter.

I just saw this ngl. You literally contradicted what you said in the highlighted bold. You said in the earlier post that Almost50 had absoletly NO influence on your confirmation. And guess what you claim literally that it further confirmed it should be NAI. Do you see how why I suspect you could just be spewing lies out of your ass? I was never looking at Bingle's statement being a lie... like I said it's not what happened it is how you interacted with Bingle that was more sus. You keep going by the fact of the content being made. I thought the content was fine; I am not really assessing that. A scum mindset would have the same right now; you are going based of what you said and what bingle said and not looking at the bigger pciture. So literally everything after the bolded is irrelavent info. And I really see that as a way for you as scum to just cover your tracks. Honestly, you saying you don't want to interact with me is also anti town. I think my vote is gonna stay this for now.

VOTE: Lukewarm

[GrandpaMo]

Why are you lying?

Okay, I am done interacting with you over this one comment tbh.

I'll say it lay it out one last time before I start hard ignoring this topic: Bingle's claim that he has done it in every game game for years was enough for me to decide that it was NAI. Before I got caught up on the thread,

I also read Almost50's post, which further confirmed it should be NAI.

Bingle made a statement, and that statement would be a dumb lie to tell. I mean if it was a lie, it could have be easily disproven by anyone willing to read his backlog (or by any of the people who have obviously played with him before) and therefore I decided to believe it.

Why should I not have believed his claim that he does that every game? If you are trying to say that it is indicative of me being scum, then you need to explain why town!Luke would not have reacted the exact same way.

Believe me or don't believe me, but I don't know what else there is to say on the matter.

I just saw this ngl. You literally contradicted what you said in the highlighted bold. You said in the earlier post that Almost50 had absoletly NO influence on your confirmation. And guess what you claim literally that it further confirmed it should be NAI. Do you see how why I suspect you could just be spewing lies out of your ass? I was never looking at Bingle's statement being a lie... like I said it's not what happened it is how you interacted with Bingle that was more sus. You keep going by the fact of the content being made. I thought the content was fine; I am not really assessing that. A scum mindset would have the same right now; you are going based of what you said and what bingle said and not looking at the bigger pciture. So literally everything after the bolded is irrelavent info. And I really see that as a way for you as scum to just cover your tracks. Honestly, you saying you don't want to interact with me is also anti town. I think my vote is gonna stay this for now.

VOTE: Lukewarm

[GrandpaMo]

sorry for the double; lag.

[GrandpaMo]

Gypyx
VFP
Grandpa (I get the feeling he is just misguided town)
(maybe) Bingle

Are these ordered btw?

Not really. If I were ordering them, it would probably have Grandpa at the top actually

As in most scum?

[GrandpaMo]

Please tell me, I am not the only one who saw lukewarm blantly contradict themselves.

[GrandpaMo]

Almost50 had almost no influence on me dropping my scumread on Bingle.

This is why I dropped it:
Bingle claimed that he has done the same thing in every game he has played for years. I cannot imagine that this is a lie, because it is something that could easily be disproven by anyone willing to look back over his game history or by anyone who has played games with him in the past.

I decided to move bingle back to a null read at this point, because I believed him here that it was NAI.

Almost50 chiming in was just an extra little nudge that re-accessing the situation as NAI was the right move.

I'll say it lay it out one last time before I start hard ignoring this topic: Bingle's claim that he has done it in every game game for years was enough for me to decide that it was NAI. Before I got caught up on the thread,

I also read Almost50's post, which further confirmed it should be NAI.

If you think that these two statements are contradictory, and not literally saying the exact same thing, then communication between the two of us has fully broken down.

Look at the bold. Do you see now? What is your definition of influence?

[GrandpaMo]

[quote="In post 199, Lukewarm"

]Almost50 had almost no influence on me dropping my scumread on Bingle.

This is why I dropped it:
Bingle claimed that he has done the same thing in every game he has played for years. I cannot imagine that this is a lie, because it is something that could easily be disproven by anyone willing to look back over his game history or by anyone who has played games with him in the past. I decided to move bingle back to a null read at this point, because I believed him here that it was NAI.

Almost50 chiming in was just an extra little nudge that re-accessing the situation as NAI was the right move.

I'll say it lay it out one last time before I start hard ignoring this topic: Bingle's claim that he has done it in every game game for years was enough for me to decide that it was NAI.

Before I got caught up on the thread, I also read Almost50's post, which further confirmed it should be NAI.

If you think that these two statements are contradictory, and not literally saying the exact same thing, then communication between the two of us has fully broken down.[/quote]


Wait wrong bolded. This is now corrected. Sorry!

[GrandpaMo]

[quote="In post 199, Lukewarm"

]Almost50 had almost no influence on me dropping my scumread on Bingle.

This is why I dropped it:
Bingle claimed that he has done the same thing in every game he has played for years. I cannot imagine that this is a lie, because it is something that could easily be disproven by anyone willing to look back over his game history or by anyone who has played games with him in the past. I decided to move bingle back to a null read at this point, because I believed him here that it was NAI.

Almost50 chiming in was just an extra little nudge that re-accessing the situation as NAI was the right move.

I'll say it lay it out one last time before I start hard ignoring this topic: Bingle's claim that he has done it in every game game for years was enough for me to decide that it was NAI.

Before I got caught up on the thread, I also read Almost50's post, which further confirmed it should be NAI.

If you think that these two statements are contradictory, and not literally saying the exact same thing, then communication between the two of us has fully broken down.[/quote]


Wait wrong bolded. This is now corrected. Sorry!

[GrandpaMo]

Almost50 had almost no influence on me dropping my scumread on Bingle.

This is why I dropped it:
Bingle claimed that he has done the same thing in every game he has played for years. I cannot imagine that this is a lie, because it is something that could easily be disproven by anyone willing to look back over his game history or by anyone who has played games with him in the past. I decided to move bingle back to a null read at this point, because I believed him here that it was NAI.

Almost50 chiming in was just an extra little nudge that re-accessing the situation as NAI was the right move.

I'll say it lay it out one last time before I start hard ignoring this topic: Bingle's claim that he has done it in every game game for years was enough for me to decide that it was NAI.

Before I got caught up on the thread, I also read Almost50's post, which further confirmed it should be NAI.

If you think that these two statements are contradictory, and not literally saying the exact same thing, then communication between the two of us has fully broken down.

Okay what the fuck am I doing hold on. This should be good now. Sorry again.

[GrandpaMo]

Almost50 had almost no influence on me dropping my scumread on Bingle.
This is why I dropped it:
Bingle claimed that he has done the same thing in every game he has played for years. I cannot imagine that this is a lie, because it is something that could easily be disproven by anyone willing to look back over his game history or by anyone who has played games with him in the past.

I decided to move bingle back to a null read at this point, because I believed him here that it was NAI.

Almost50 chiming in was just an extra little nudge that re-accessing the situation as NAI was the right move.

I'll say it lay it out one last time before I start hard ignoring this topic:

Bingle's claim that he has done it in every game game for years was enough for me to decide that it was NAI.

Before I got caught up on the thread,

I also read Almost50's post, which further confirmed it should be NAI.

If you think that these two statements are contradictory, and not literally saying the exact same thing, then communication between the two of us has fully broken down.

Like, compare the blue to the blue, and the green to the green, and they are saying literally the same thing??????

I read Bingles post, and that was enough for me to realize it was NAI

and after that

I read Almost50's post which made me feel better about my decision

That is what happened. "Almost50 had almost no influence on me dropping my scumread on Bingle." Because I decided to drop my scumread on Bingle before I ever read Almost50's post. But then, when I did read it, it made me feel better about the decision I had already made. That is exactly how my thought process on Bingle evolved as I read the thread, and I feel like I have been saying the exact same thing over and over again.

Grandpa, this is the strangest game of semantics got 'cha I have ever been a part of. You are tunneling pretty hard on this. All I can say is that it seems like you are wildly misunderstanding me, and then digging your heels in over it. Please take a step back, and try reading through the situation again. If you still end up with a scumread on me over it, then more power to you.

That's a fair assessment. I am just like... I don't know you saying that first part throws me off. This happened between me and JacksonVirgo in Newbie 2059 and it turned it was town on town. I usually tend to do this a lot. We could be just be misunderstanding each other. But yes, I will look at other people and other sitatuions to see how you develop. I am also waiting on a game to end so I can also see if your slot was scummy ( I think you should know what game I am referencing) but we can't talk about on going games so no further discussion on that please. Anyways, I just may have a tad bias toward this tunnel on you and I will back off for now. What do you think of others by the way? Like pooky?

[GrandpaMo]

guys gypyx and bingle are scum together

hey dann was this ever a real read? Also you are hypocritical to that fact for calling out mena for giving no content while you gave no content as well.

[GrandpaMo]

I have no idea why Bingle is town reading me, he shouldn't be but he probably has reasons for it

I'm not going to argue anything I've done so far is indicative of radiant town!dann blah blah blah

I'm just like, so thrown by the fact that Menalque thinks I should be radiating town within my first five posts.

Menalque, you've made 47 posts and I can pull threads of alignment out of maybe three of them.

I like this post.
Questioning TR.
Explain how stuff is NAI.
This is a good reaction towards Mena and I sorta agree with what he’s saying.
He seems quite genuine here regardless of alignment.
Think I’ll move this from NT to LT.

eh i don't think I am too quick to put Dann in the townpool honestly.

[GrandpaMo]

What’s your current town pool Gramps?

I think you had a way better game after your introduction that makes you more town especially with the good reactions from Luke pressuring you and other interactions after early game. The only thing I didn't like was post 35; That post really felt ingeninue but like I said you evolved and actually did better than what I expected.

But like I said earlier in my analysis; Mena and Bingle were also on my townreads.

Pooky and Dann are really my null reads. I am starting to not like Dann after recent psots but I still want to here from them.

I did say there was scum between you and Gypx but Gypx making no comment and not being here makes me to have to retract that read for now especially since I town read you now.

[GrandpaMo]

I am also waiting on a game to end so I can also see if your slot was scummy ( I think you should know what game I am referencing) but we can't talk about on going games so no further discussion on that please.

If you are referring to the game where I replaced out, my replacement got voted out Day 1. So you can already check my alignment from that game.

Oh yea! LMAO That is where I called T3 scum just because of there weird difference playstyle than Newbie 2059 but I realized that was because they were probably in a more slower game compared to my game I played earlier with them. Also, I thought you were towny that game but T3 made you scummy. I will have to do some meta analysis and I will catch up with you.

[GrandpaMo]

Spoiler:

Optimal play is for baby to target Allen and Allen to aim for scrum.

We all pseudoclaim a psych inno D2 and maybe later day phases on the basis of how kills pan out. psych claims immediately if has guilty (although letting pseudoclaims happen is reasonable for extra analysis fodder). Mafia likely use the roleblocker to kill n1 as they are most valuable. They also likely don’t target with their roleblock N1, as it is greater utility as the game proceeds.

No more mech discussion, including clarification about scum action optimization or WHY I would share such action optimization is appropriate on D1.

So I have a spicy tinfoil theory. I think that professor Drapion is not actually a drapion at all and is a robot attempting to pretend to be a drapion for the purposes of making achieving a professorship more impressive. I know, I know, this is all very farfetch’d, but I do have evidence.

Firstly, drapion has been established to evolve at level 40, which as everyone knows is a very rare occurrence in a game of mafia. Usually you have to have several weirdos running conflicting gambits to even get close to level 10 play. I find it very unlikely that someone with no completed games has managed to pull of a high enough level maneuver to evolve.

He COULD be a naturally occurring drapion, as drapion have been encountered in many places. This is exceedingly unlikely on the basis that there have been 0 wild drapion sightings in Central Park. Indeed, there aren’t even any confirmed drapion sightings in the greater New York area. Occams suggests that such a large Pokémon would have been spotted at least once during its migration.

Furthermore, when I began quoting music from Pokémon soundtracks, drapion remained ignorant of the context and didn’t respond to his supposed people’s music. I find this very suspicious.

Thirdly, when preparing to battle Mena, drapion mentioned that his claw was ready. Claw: singular, not plural. As everyone knows, drapion as a species has two claws, four spiked limbs and a scorpion like tail. This lack of biological familiarity with his supposed species is highly suspicious.

Finally, it is common knowledge that very few Pokémon have learned to speak proper English. Among those who have, a predilection towards using their own species name (such as the famous Team Rocket Meowth) is still common. drapion has shown a distinct lack of these behaviors. Clearly, the preponderance of evidence shows: Drapion must be a robot.

Now Bingle, got any other early reads?

Mena slightly scummy, pooky low priority, your slot has tells but I need to wait for the psych evaluation result to determine if they’re scummy or towny. Dann strongest townread. I’d be voting lukewarm if I weren’t voting gypyx, but I think the gypyx wagon is more likely to be spicy atm.

You?

So through these analytical posts... I don't think mafia goes out in their way to actually give out on what town does. Mafia specifically in this setup where it is their job to figure out PRs does not give PRs help unless its direct manipulation to favor a specific result. However, seeing what Bingle has said, I doubt there is a world where Bingle actually does this as mafia. Looking back at their older games, they seem the same as their townplaystyle. Also their continued aggression and coherent reads are okay, there is some I disagree with however and I will explain later.

Now Bingle, got any other early reads?

Mena slightly scummy, pooky low priority, your slot has tells but I need to wait for the psych evaluation result to determine if they’re scummy or towny. Dann strongest townread. I’d be voting lukewarm if I weren’t voting gypyx, but I think the gypyx wagon is more likely to be spicy atm.

You?

I liked the way Mena went about my slot when they voted me. It doesn’t seem to be “faked” per say. So I would slightly TR Mena there.

I personally like the way VFP has handled the thread. Not much content but it felt genuine. More of a gut read then anything but I trust it at least for now.

T3’s entrance wasn’t entirely bad but it was definitely not a great entrance. I’ll probably watch this slot and it’s progression towards Pooky.

As for Pooky themselves, well. I’m not really sure where to put them. From the majority of what I seen, their agenda is just Sheeping Mena.

I think your first big post (the one with the Psyc Check thing) felt towny. I want to vote with you for now and see where it goes and see further progression towards your slot.

As for Gypyx, I don’t know.
His first post seemed like jealous of me taken his spotlight.
His other posts haven’t really done much.
I believe 3 were Filler and the other was a turn down towards your Psych Plan Bingle. (If I remember correctly.)

Going back and giving these actual insight of reads (since they are being pushed). I agree with the Mena townread, mafia is less likely to push and interact with people. They were the first people to give a read and I actually gave a comment on that early on. Your read on Gypx feels artificial meaning that you tried to spew any information to make Gypyx look mafia alligned. If you are mafia, you could just be bussing, or making Gypyx (someone who would town) look scum as possible. But that conclusion is very debatable and not coherent until EoD or whatever stage in the game we are.

Oh if it’s hectic it’s not so bad

I thought prof was a newbie (prof do you have any pronoun preference?)

Shadow Claw

I do, He/Pokemon

VOTE: Professor

Claims he is a pokemon, but he can talk. The first pokemon I think of that can talk, is in fact,

A CRIMINAL

Checkmate.

This is a really weird entrance. I think something that should be noticed. They come into the game with a read already done being made on Prof. They vote them and probably make some random meme excuse as mafia. I will explain later with another read on why Lukewarm is my scumread here.

VOTE: professor drapion

This might actually be scum lol

Looking at post 41, this is a very towny entrance from Mena and like I said why I townread Mena from early game. Mafia is more inclined to just stay back and let town push and interact members. However, they could be experienced enough to just do that as Mafia. But usually from the games I have played in, this is what I have been through and seen and it is usually right; early pushes (especially the first player) tend to be town. Also something to remark, is that if Drap is scum this is the only reference I see them scum in early game and that is in post 35. I replied to Mena hoping for an answer on this, but no answer sadly.

VOTE: gypx

guys gypyx and bingle are scum together

Honestly, this is a bad pairing for this reason. I doubt mafia busses day 1 in this setup. Bingle is hard pushing Gypyx and while everyone is pushing Drap, Bingle is staying on with a read that they think Gypyx is scum (look at post 99 where they they say a Gypx BW is more spicy implying wanting it more). This is a weird enterence too but at least its better than lukewarm's enterence. You are still null since you haven't done nothing that scummy right after.

Hmmm. Too many scum reads, not enough time. Monkey get your ass in here, I have need of you.

Lukewarm, do you have any non-pokemon related thoughts on any players yet?

Yeah. I am actually suspicious of Bingle making the suggestion for the psych to automatically out a guilty result. Because imo, that seems more likely to out the sitter then to out mafia.

I think that they know that too, because they were in the Open Setup review of the game that the mod linked to in the first post, and there they talked about the Psych having "a fake inno and a fake guilty on a questionable reliability investigative."

So from my PoV, Bingle came out with some anti-town advice, and then said for no one to question them

Let me give you a quick rundown on how Bingle do.

Bingle will argue the optimal strategy for town as he sees it, regardless of his alignment. Bingle is good at mechanics speak. Bingle is very good at mechanics speak. Bingle is widely regarded as among the best at mechanics on site. Bingle has said, specifically, that there are a bunch of things that are mechanically optimal, and that we should not discuss mechanics speak further for the rest of the day.

Either, Bingle is telling the truth that this is a protown maneuver or Bingle is crippling his ability to lean into mechanics speak, setting himself up to be questioned thoroughly on not D1 (historically the day when Bingle wants to be questioned in order to establish himself), and taking a harsh departure from what is a tried and true strategy Bingle has used as both town and scum for literally years to a pretty good result in a lobby that is at least half full of people who know Bingle pretty well.

Feel free to scumread me for it (I in fact enjoy scumreads, they are delicious) but we are done talking mech for D1.

The amazing "Feel free to scumread me for it" is the most towniest IF AND ONLY IF it used after a analytical post has been made. I have also seen this in games and I do it to and they are town. This is because of your mind saying "hey, I am writing this for you as town and I want you to read it as me for town. Why scumread me when in my perception, what I am doing is town." Basically some psychology of perception and how you perceive vs the other party perceives it. You get more townpings for this. No need for mafia to write that much on optimal gameplay.

I am actually a little confused how the psychologist role helps us in this set up.

If he can get a "can kill" result on the baby sitter, but gets a "not able to kill" result on the cowardly mafia + any mafia that has already committed a kill, then on day 1 wouldn't a "can kill" result be a 50/50 chance at being the babysitter or mafia. And then starting on Day 2, they will basically be getting "is babysitter" and "is not babysitter" results, right?

That makes me question this advice given by Bingle

Optimal play is for baby to target Allen and Allen to aim for scrum.

We all pseudoclaim a psych inno D2 and maybe later day phases on the basis of how kills pan out.

psych claims immediately if has guilty

I do have to comment on this though:

@Luke:

REGARDLESS OF HIS ALIGNMENT

; you should always treat Bingle's mech talk as gospel. It is accurate and indeed best play for Town. End of discussion.

Note: The above is not limited to this game. It does apply here but is a general rule of the thumb.

I actually hate this from Almost50. It almost seems like you are scumsiding to seem that you are agreeing with them as scum while Bingle is town. Maybe a pocket who knows...but what was the point of making it seem like we all should listen to you? Mafia and town will make up their own conclusions and now you are leaving Bingle with no reaction testing or any pressure of the person they were asking this to, for example, Lukewarm. I will explain later on why Lukewarm has been acting a certain way and the reaction actually to this post seems very very off.

Town:

Dannflor
T3
PookyTheMagicalBear
Almost50

Needs more content before being arbitrarily shuffled into a pile:

GrandpaMo
ManWithNoName
Pine

Scum:

Lukewarm
VFP
Menalque
ProfessorDrapion
Gypyx

Yes. All nine of those are genuine reads with genuine reasoning. I'm not going to bother explaining most of them at the moment, and they're loosely ordered based on how accurate my gut says they might be.

Okay. So the only real townread I agree with you here is T3.

I also think VFP and Mena are town.

VFP is playing way similary to the game I have played in and has so far not been focused on interactions with anyone else. I don't seem being mafia with someone. Mena, I already explained the towny posts. And T3 has just been also the same as VFP; playing similiary (and I know I am meta reading and sometimes it is a pain in the ass but their actual interactions same with VFP have been towny.) FWIW; the only time VFP is mafia is if they are mafia with T3 (and extra third mafia) which I doubt this is the case.

The more null reads is Pooky, Danna, Gypx, Darp.

Pooky is playing way different than what I have played with them before in Newbie 2059. And honestly it feels weird to me. Their constant non-argumentative status is bringing no information to town and thats why they are null... I need to hear more information on this. Danna I already have explained above.

And okay so Gypx and Darp; it seems everyone is pushing those two. Honestly I could them either or flipping scum and I actually think there could be scum in between. I already explained more on Darp and Gypx has played way more towny on Gypx but Darp could also be falling in the newbie trap. Third mafia could be in that pair assuming Pooky and Danna are town.

And scumreads consist of Lukewarm and Almost50.

And these reads; I have explained their scummy entrances and I will further exemplify Lukewarm's scumread on a later post that I have added but basically Bingle gives info against Lukewarm because Lukewarm pushed the narrative of why psych outting in which Almost50 made that post and I gave my reason on why they were scum above btw!! But after that post from Almost50, lukewarm instantly backs down. And it seems like mafia tried to push this narrative where they didn't want psych to out because they could set up a CC later hence why Almost50 tried to signal them to backdown; it would be more of wifom to say it in day chat.

I could be overreaching on this pairing but there is definitely scum between and both could be paired through my reasoning.

I am actually a little confused how the psychologist role helps us in this set up.

If he can get a "can kill" result on the baby sitter, but gets a "not able to kill" result on the cowardly mafia + any mafia that has already committed a kill, then on day 1 wouldn't a "can kill" result be a 50/50 chance at being the babysitter or mafia. And then starting on Day 2, they will basically be getting "is babysitter" and "is not babysitter" results, right?

That makes me question this advice given by Bingle

Optimal play is for baby to target Allen and Allen to aim for scrum.

We all pseudoclaim a psych inno D2 and maybe later day phases on the basis of how kills pan out.

psych claims immediately if has guilty

I do have to comment on this though:

@Luke:

REGARDLESS OF HIS ALIGNMENT

; you should always treat Bingle's mech talk as gospel. It is accurate and indeed best play for Town. End of discussion.

Note: The above is not limited to this game. It does apply here but is a general rule of the thumb.

I have never played a game with Bingle, so I guess I will take your work for it for now. His advice doesn't really come into play until day 2 anyways, so we can talk about it then.

This is the post that I was referencing on why Luke could be scum. Them backing down after pressure.

VOTE: Professor

I know that he was my RVS vote, but now I actually have a scumlean on him

Also look at this... "RVS vote but now I actually scumread them" Sounds like a blantant way to BW on this vote. Tell me why do you scumread Drap, is it because everyone is? I don't see any reason for you to be voting them right now.

what's the tl;dr version?

Under the post 138 quote of that ^

[GrandpaMo]

(A50 said he SR’s VPN not you, if that makes things more clear)

He put me as the solve. Probably just to see my reaction. My gamesolve is Lukewarm/A50/ >>> There is a world where A50 is paired with Pooky just because of openly defending. That means that would make Gypx and Darp both town which is a weird read honestly. I still need to get

why isn't Pooky in your main solve if a50 being scum relies on associatives with em'?

Because pooky was being scumread on individuality, then I saw that pooky quote which is surface level logic. I am now obligated to townread pooky just because they are starting to play the similar way I inteneded. I still want to hear from Pooky's reads.

pedit: yea i agree t3 thats why I am slowly just backing up and seeing other worlds where the people in my scumpool could be scum.

[GrandpaMo]

actual scum with other people**

[GrandpaMo]

i don't read posts

you were voting me? otherwise nope it wasn't, just not seeing the stuff that you mention

and well yes

you're saying there's better case material on you out there, so spill the beans my man / pokemon / robot pretending to be a pokemon, what are those posts?

pedit : not reading the pedits, that was a response to 314

bad rxn imo

[GrandpaMo]

Actually hold on I’ll see if I can ISO some of it.

You won't really find anything other Pooky just meming with Menq and Bingle and A50 being offended by me scumreading them and puts me in their solve with VPN and Gypx lol

[GrandpaMo]

can we get a prod on the afk here? that could also be a viable scumslot that we haven't seen yet

[GrandpaMo]

specifically pine and man?

[GrandpaMo]

specifically pine and man?

Hasn’t Mena posted recently?

man not mena

[GrandpaMo]

I do think Lukewarm had a good defense I'll have to think on it.

Ok now here’s what I got for you.

Top 3 Town: Bingle, GrandpaMo, (?)
Top 3 Scum: Lukewarm, Pooky (Soul Read), (?)

are those ur reads?

[GrandpaMo]

specifically pine and man?

Hasn’t Mena posted recently?

man not mena

Oh damn.
Yeah just looked at player list didn’t even realize ManWithNoName was in this game.
Hasn’t even posted at all.

yea same, I had to go to player list to check in and realized man didn't even post

[GrandpaMo]

I changed my mind on Drapion.
VOTE: ProfessorDrapion

this is a bad vote imo

[GrandpaMo]

well enterance overall^^^

[GrandpaMo]

and also i love how a50 comes around the same time bingle does

[GrandpaMo]

guys gypyx and bingle are scum together

hey dann was this ever a real read? Also you are hypocritical to that fact for calling out mena for giving no content while you gave no content as well.

define real read

as real as it could be for being gut feelings five pages into the game

but feelings early change on a dime

Bingle I've developed some more thoughts on but I'm reserving those for right now

real as in you actually think they are scum together

[GrandpaMo]

is how real it was or is going to help you sort me?

I don't mean this to be obtuse

I'm just trying to get to whatever the point is of this line of questioning

Lol I asked a simple question and that is because it will help me clear my thought. I look at pairings and interactions other people's reads. So knowing how you pair them is viable to me. It was also your entrance that's why I asked in the first place because I didn't know if it was serious.

[GrandpaMo]

VOTE: Lukewarm. His tone feels forced , and I'm not liking th defense.

I do think Lukewarm had a good defense I'll have to think on it.

??

I am pretty sure my defense was the same before and after post 258. What changed your mind?

Well from my perspective you had a fair assessment in your quote which in my definition different than defense. I don't know what T3 is talking about here honestly.

[GrandpaMo]

ok im actually thinking there might be scum between luke and t3

[GrandpaMo]

my townlist so far:

A50
Grandpa
Bingle
Dann
T3
Mena
Gyp

Nullish:
VFP

Scum:
Lukewarn

Need Posting:
Pine
MNN

why is luke scum pooky

[GrandpaMo]

Drapion is scum though, I've read the first 2 pages

eh i think gypx is way more scum than drap. drap has been very solvy on finding mafia wit a town mindset imo. the interation wit them and gypx just made gypx look worse. they also had good reactions against luke. i might be biased tho

[GrandpaMo]

VOTE: Lukewarm. His tone feels forced , and I'm not liking th defense.

I do think Lukewarm had a good defense I'll have to think on it.

??

I am pretty sure my defense was the same before and after post 258. What changed your mind?

Different thing, first your reaction to th scumreads was bad but to the votes felt very towny.

zI don't think I'm explaining clearly.

Your reaction: I don't think you understand what I'm saying

felt very towny.

honestly i expected a better response from t3.

[GrandpaMo]

Bingle, how are you reading A50 so far?

dann i need to hear from you. you ask this question then dip which is wack.

[GrandpaMo]

Drapion is scum though, I've read the first 2 pages

eh i think gypx is way more scum than drap. drap has been very solvy on finding mafia wit a town mindset imo. the interation wit them and gypx just made gypx look worse. they also had good reactions against luke. i might be biased tho

^ Drapion's partner

no i was just basing my gamesolve reads off them

now i have gypx (mafia between gypx + drap), mafia between luke + t3 (still don't know which), +3rd mafia

[GrandpaMo]

I am going to need something from T3 if I am ever going to move him out of my scum list

this line pinged me

lol same but luke had a good reaction to me so thats why im still weary between the two

[GrandpaMo]

Drapion + GrandPaMo + Lukewarm HERO-SOLVE?

would u bus d1 if u were scum? is this how this setup would work optimally? sorry im new

[GrandpaMo]

I always play the game, you just don't like how

NM nailed a scumbag in his last completed game with me and ate a n1 NK from SS as a result

I bring out the best in him

PERHAPS ITS TIME FOR THE GLORIOUS REUNION OF THE BEST ANIMAL POLICE DEPARTMENT EVER?!?!?!?!?!?!?!

As long as you PookyPinkyPromise not to be a traitor scumbutt this time

no dw pooky will find u scum

[GrandpaMo]

Pooky, I think GPa believes his angles to be true regardless of his alignment, which makes me think at the very least he and Drap aren't S/S. Do you get a different vibe?

what is s/s?

[GrandpaMo]

dann i need to hear from you. you ask this question then dip which is wack.

Contextually it might help you to know that I locktowned A50 before page 10 of the large normal for TM when he was largely scumread, A50 guessed I would shortly after I expressed this in the team chat and I was 100% correct.

I'm not entirely sure why Dann is worried about it just now, but he is likely to put a lot of stock in my ability to read A50.

yea.. i just want to hear from dann. dann asks that question then never follows up. I feel like Dann wanted to say something against you. because they said the same thing to me... they asked me if my question was real when i asked him if his reads were real so i was just a bit lost on his thought process.

[GrandpaMo]

Drapion + GrandPaMo + Lukewarm HERO-SOLVE?

would u bus d1 if u were scum? is this how this setup would work optimally? sorry im new

So far you and Drapion have been pushing me and I have been pushing Drapion. So pooky's hero solve is that the entire scum team came I to Day 1 ready to bus each other

that would be a weird ass play from scum honestly. lol if scum is actually doing that and somehow exuctes that then props

[GrandpaMo]

ITS ALWAYS POSSIBLE

BUSSING IS THE FIRST RESORT OF SCUM WHO SEE A MASSIVE TOWN BLOCK AND CANT FIND A WAY TO GET IN

yea ig but isnt like every mafia a pr or sum. i havent even researched the roles lol i probably should

[GrandpaMo]

Pooky, I think GPa believes his angles to be true regardless of his alignment, which makes me think at the very least he and Drap aren't S/S. Do you get a different vibe?

what is s/s?

Scum Scum. I don't think you and drap are both aligned with the mafia together based specifically on the impression that your reasoning is genuine. I could see a case for either of you individually, although I think you're probably just town playing at a surface level atm.

fwiw i thought my reasonings were good ;-;

ig im still new to this overall game and sematics of the open games (this is my first ig)

[GrandpaMo]

also dann is leaning scum for me now, they were null, but if i dont hear from them soon enough, im going to lean them as scum.

poe so far: leaning gypx (between gypx + drap), leaning t3 (between luke + t3), nd dann

and almost50 goes back into my null pile.
and nm goes into my town pile.

[GrandpaMo]

Pooky, I think GPa believes his angles to be true regardless of his alignment, which makes me think at the very least he and Drap aren't S/S. Do you get a different vibe?

what is s/s?

Scum Scum. I don't think you and drap are both aligned with the mafia together based specifically on the impression that your reasoning is genuine. I could see a case for either of you individually, although I think you're probably just town playing at a surface level atm.

fwiw i thought my reasonings were good ;-;

ig im still new to this overall game and sematics of the open games (this is my first ig)

the more i think about it, the more i think about my first game and how its really not a fair assessment to the other games. newbie 2059 was an easy game compared to this and mafia scumslipped and the other was coasty mafia so honestly i think thats how we won

[GrandpaMo]

IF NOBODY GIVES ME A GOOD REASON TO TOWNREAD PROFESSOR SCUM SCUM WE ARE GOING TO YEET THIS TO THE MOON

giv me a good reason they scum

[GrandpaMo]

IMHO, Drapion is more likely scum than T3 and/or Luke. I trust N_M's reads so I will reassert Gypyx as a scumster here. I no longer SR VPN. Menalque still has his own unique category in my reads.

UNVOTE:

For now. Let me take another look to see where my vote should be

t3 is way more scummier then drap. you can debate luke + drap because honestly u could see how luke is townier than drap. but mmh, can you tell me what drap has done thats more scum?

also you think gypx is scum too? i doubt in that interaction on page 13. i doubt that gypx shitpushes drap in that manner as of a way of bussing. just read that interaction... drap put them in a corner and now they never answered. gypx comes out way scummier in that interaction. this is giving me andante vibes in 2059 >.> where everyone + mafia just started scumreading this one person and i was the only one defending them and they flipped town.

[GrandpaMo]

Drapion + GrandPaMo + Lukewarm HERO-SOLVE?

would u bus d1 if u were scum? is this how this setup would work optimally? sorry im new

He did it with stunning cold blood in the last game.

im scared now:( and lost this game

[GrandpaMo]

I mean I won’t deny that I do want to look at reads.
But if I was going to search for the Masons, I would have went about it differently.

nd that is?

[GrandpaMo]

I changed my mind on Drapion.
VOTE: ProfessorDrapion

What made you change your mind on me?

Scum want to find the masons here and I think you're trying to do exactly that.

This is not something I even considered. So I looked back over his iso, and I can kind of see it.

Like I can see where his iso could be coming from a "I want to get everyone's town reads quickly and note any time people's reads shift slightly so I can cross reference everything to find the lovers" strategy instead of a "I want to find scum" strategy.

Like half the time someone posts a read, their response is "do you have any more reads" instead of actually talking about the reads themselves

But I am worried that this is just confirmation bias because I already put him in the scum team in my head. Would like to avoid tunneling. Can other people weigh in.

Spoiler:

Now Bingle, got any other early reads?

Hmmm.

Too many scum reads

, not enough time. Monkey get your ass in here, I have need of you.

Hmm?
Where exactly are they?

What’s your current town pool Gramps?

I would like to request to have Pooky’s Top 3 SR’s and A50’s Top 3 TR’s.

I do think Lukewarm had a good defense I'll have to think on it.

Ok now here’s what I got for you.

Top 3 Town: Bingle, GrandpaMo, (?)
Top 3 Scum: Lukewarm, Pooky (Soul Read), (?)

You haven’t talked about Mena in here.
What do you feel about them?

yea i noticed that too. but i didnt say anything just because i thought thats how their towny playstyle is + plus forgetting there were prs in the game lol nd that this wasnt a normal newbie setup. thats why vfp is town honestly. i would probably need to look at drap's other games and do some meta anaylsis... them doing that could just be their town mindset where they are tryna solve interactions and pairs and figure out who mafia is and i do that A LOT. especially in my old community.

[GrandpaMo]

I changed my mind on Drapion.
VOTE: ProfessorDrapion

What made you change your mind on me?

Scum want to find the masons here and I think you're trying to do exactly that.

This is not something I even considered. So I looked back over his iso, and I can kind of see it.

Like I can see where his iso could be coming from a "I want to get everyone's town reads quickly and note any time people's reads shift slightly so I can cross reference everything to find the lovers" strategy instead of a "I want to find scum" strategy.

Like half the time someone posts a read, their response is "do you have any more reads" instead of actually talking about the reads themselves

But I am worried that this is just confirmation bias because I already put him in the scum team in my head. Would like to avoid tunneling. Can other people weigh in.

Spoiler:

Now Bingle, got any other early reads?

Hmmm.

Too many scum reads

, not enough time. Monkey get your ass in here, I have need of you.

Hmm?
Where exactly are they?

What’s your current town pool Gramps?

I would like to request to have Pooky’s Top 3 SR’s and A50’s Top 3 TR’s.

I do think Lukewarm had a good defense I'll have to think on it.

Ok now here’s what I got for you.

Top 3 Town: Bingle, GrandpaMo, (?)
Top 3 Scum: Lukewarm, Pooky (Soul Read), (?)

You haven’t talked about Mena in here.
What do you feel about them?

ur acting like me and i hate it lol

UNVOTE: lukewarm

[GrandpaMo]

pooky, you often play like you're doing rn?

Whats your mood right now?

Wouldn’t your mood be better though if you rolled scum?

wtf leave pooky alone

[GrandpaMo]

pooky this is of capital importance, what did you eat last sunday

only scum asks this smh

[GrandpaMo]

@GrandpaMo, I'm confused about your trajectory on me

threatening to lean me scum if you "don't hear from me soon" doesn't entirely feel like a real read? unless you're placing a lot of stock on timing in thread and think I'm lurking

Can you explain what exactly you want from / want me to answer? I don't know how to respond to repeated posts that you need to hear from me.

no no no. that was just me + adding to the scum thing. I understand you have lives and stuff but the problem was that you asked Bingle a question and then you dipped , I still want to see hear your reaction on Bingle's response and stuff because from my perspective you ask me a weird ass question to my question which I thought had a simple answer, then you move on to Bingle and them a question and we never hear from you again. It just seems like scum trying to contribute yk? and then dipping especailly when you still haven't followed up on the reaction of me or Bingle OTHER than post 484 where you respond to Bingle's rebuttal to your question.

I originally had scumpings for your initial weird entrance of pairing gypx + bingle and thought that was a weird ass ping but I really didn't give it much notice since it could be argued as a meme or like for RVS (explained in my analysis).


now tell me this when you get the chance. why the vote on lukewarm?

[GrandpaMo]

[quote="In post 496, Lukewarm"][/quote]

yea exactly. thats why i thought there was scum between u and t3. just because of that weird ass interaction where t3 just felt ingenuine pushing you then backing down and not even really explaining why

[GrandpaMo]

yea exactly. thats why i thought there was scum between u and t3. just because of that weird ass interaction where t3 just felt ingenuine pushing you then backing down and not even really explaining why

also the indifference that i saw t3 play way better than this. pls explain t3 why r u playing differently? this isnt ur usual town playstyle ngl

im gonna place my vote here for now.

VOTE: T3

[GrandpaMo]

Spoiler:

As to why people are scumreading Prof:

His entrance sounded forced, and his immediate justification for it makes me think he's too worried about how he's coming across. 19 is a bit performative and I don't particularly like the way he danced around my wagon. This was less of a big deal when I thought he was a true newbie, but being an alt makes it less likely to simply be jitters.

His fluff/content ratio is actually pretty good, but the content he does have is very political. Sheeping me and asking for my other reads is a very safe move, even if I'm right on Gypyx. 103 shows an effort=town read for both me and Mena. VFP/T3/Gypyx feel mostly like fluff reads. It feels more like a readslist because he thought I expected him to have reads at that point in the game than a genuine reads list. I also would have expected a natural thought process to put the very similar reads of me and Mena adjacent to each other, rather than as bookends to the weaker, low content reads.

It's been mentioned that 113 is a pretty awful take. (A50 calling VFP's post a scumclaim is incredibly nonintuitive and I'd expect anyone without extensive A50 experience to look at that and go "What are you smoking old man?" not "Oh, yeah, 3 townreads in RVS is a scumclaim.") This suggests to me that Prof had absolutely no paranoia about A50's comment, which shows a distinct lack of town perspective in that he wasn't trying to figure out A50's alignment.

128 is a defense by way of pedantry (often scum). It's not "I'm not scummy and here's why" it's "You shouldn't think I'm scummy for that specific reason."

teal deer: He's playing a very political game, and I don't think his solving is genuine.

That makes sense, I was actually about to ask why.[/quote]

more proof here

[GrandpaMo]

IMHO, Drapion is more likely scum than T3 and/or Luke. I trust N_M's reads so I will reassert Gypyx as a scumster here. I no longer SR VPN. Menalque still has his own unique category in my reads.

UNVOTE:

For now. Let me take another look to see where my vote should be

t3 is way more scummier then drap. you can debate luke + drap because honestly u could see how luke is townier than drap. but mmh, can you tell me what drap has done thats more scum?

also you think gypx is scum too? i doubt in that interaction on page 13. i doubt that gypx shitpushes drap in that manner as of a way of bussing. just read that interaction... drap put them in a corner and now they never answered. gypx comes out way scummier in that interaction. this is giving me andante vibes in 2059 >.> where everyone + mafia just started scumreading this one person and i was the only one defending them and they flipped town.

As for Drap, I agree his questions (asking for reads) could be an elaborate way of hunting the Mason Lovers. You ask for reads, you try to find 2 people who TR each other for no good reason, and you probably found the Masons.

As for Gypyx, trust me.. NOTHING is outside his Scum range. (That's actually a compliment to his scum game, but I also understand it's an annoying stance as nothing he does can make me say "Yeah, I am convinced Gypyx is Town now")

Now you get to me on using surface level logic. do YOU really think mason lovers will make it that obvious??? everyone here, I think, is experienced enough to not make it that obvious for mafia.

[GrandpaMo]

pagetops = more town pings btw therefore im town

[GrandpaMo]

just realized we have like 6 active posters also

that explains why this game feels so static

including not you.

im still waiting on pine's full reads

as well as NM + dann other reads

[GrandpaMo]

wait gypx, what r ur reads?? i just realized, you have gave no quality of content but all just blabber talk as what Bingle would say. u push drap but aren't even pushing them anymore, what is ur stance now?

[GrandpaMo]

I think T3 and Drapion contain exactly 1 scum.
I worked it out with quick maths

yea lol. vote t3 wit me. luke vs t3 had a similiar interaction

[GrandpaMo]

I think T3 and Drapion contain exactly 1 scum.
I worked it out with quick maths

they maybe be both scum honestly the more i see it.

[GrandpaMo]

No, scum T3 doesn't defend his buddy and push me here.

ig but t3 is still more scum. i rather have someone who hasnt contributed that much out than someone who has

[GrandpaMo]

[quote="In post 523, T3"][/quote]

u gave no contribution for pro town behavior

[GrandpaMo]

Why is T3 scum: Contextual Context

Spoiler:

Hmm. One of my top two scum reads coming to the defense of the other.

Can you elaborate a bit on the T3 read? I'm interested in why you think he's scum.

Alright so Bingle. I will explain to you why T3 is scum from my perception. They start as a vote to pooky as a soul read. (rvs prolly so nai). Then, In post 119 luketown gets townread by T3. However when I finally join in and find Luke scummy, t3 backs off and starts voting them. T3 then in post T3 says they have a good defense after me saying that was a fair assessment. Both times when I went on luke, T3 goes in as well and when I get off luke, T3 does too. It honestly just seems like scum sheeping here. Then me and luke pressure T3 onto why they did that, they answer luke by saying u had a different reaction saying the reaction was bad to the scumread but to the votes were towny. That literally makes no sense. Votes >>> Scumreads. Luke was right, they had the same reaction so I do not know what the difference is. T3 follows up by saying "I don't think you understand me". T3 then says he doesn't know why prof is scum then Bingle when you make that scumcase on Drap, T3 replies saying that makes sense. Again blantly sheeping. And I think T3 could have done so much more. The only really towny thing T3 has done tho is Post 514 where they vote VFP but that could be scum playing the diffusion of assessment where they know everyone is focusing on one person but to not get caught up in that mess and be alligned or seen scum, they focus on another person. They gave the reasons of "lack of contribution or reads" and honestly that is so hypcoritical because they say they have gave reads. They have gave no reads whatsoever. The only reads are implied reads... and that comes from votes and the only info you can get out of that are scumreads. They also deflected my questions multiple time, in face never answered any of my questions. This is just flat out right scum and you townread T3 more than Drap? Still don't know why.

Defense to Bingle's Post 489 + T3 Proof

Spoiler:

I will actually defend Drap here because they are my townread and I see what Bingle is talking about but I still have some points to make.

As to why people are scumreading Prof:

His entrance sounded forced, and his immediate justification for it makes me think he's too worried about how he's coming across. 19 is a bit performative and I don't particularly like the way he danced around my wagon. This was less of a big deal when I thought he was a true newbie, but being an alt makes it less likely to simply be jitters.

His fluff/content ratio is actually pretty good, but the content he does have is very political. Sheeping me and asking for my other reads is a very safe move, even if I'm right on Gypyx.

This is exactly what T3 did. I see that more as a fallacy. Because yes while you could claim that he sheeped your reads (which I don't even know; I am just going based of what you said) then what about everyone that followed along this BW who haven't even placed their reads yet. For example, pooky in post 45. (even if it is as a meme because now its their real read and never answered my question.

103 shows an effort=town read for both me and Mena.

I townread you and Mena well use to for Mena (they are more null now due to inactivity.) but I am not being scumread? They gave the same reads as me. Could be a sheep but like I said you could say that about other people in this game.

VFP/T3/Gypyx feel mostly like fluff reads.

What is a fluff read? I am assuming some BS read that scum makes on the spot? Eh, I could see that but the T3 read is justified in 105. Look, they sy that T3's enterence wasn't bad and the progression towards pooky. And if you look in post 105, they point out the enterence read (even though I disagree with it) on how T3 votes Pooky and what they said is worse then Dann's enterence. I feel like that is actual trying. If they were scum, they would have never talked about it... especially after Mena stated that Dann read.

It feels more like a readslist because he thought I expected him to have reads at that point in the game than a genuine reads list. I also would have expected a natural thought process to put the very similar reads of me and Mena adjacent to each other, rather than as bookends to the weaker, low content reads.

That is more subjective and sometimes is deciphered with Bias. I think that's more NAI.

It's been mentioned that 113 is a pretty awful take. (A50 calling VFP's post a scumclaim is incredibly nonintuitive and I'd expect anyone without extensive A50 experience to look at that and go "What are you smoking old man?" not "Oh, yeah, 3 townreads in RVS is a scumclaim.") This suggests to me that Prof had absolutely no paranoia about A50's comment, which shows a distinct lack of town perspective in that he wasn't trying to figure out A50's alignment.

128 is a defense by way of pedantry (often scum). It's not "I'm not scummy and here's why" it's "You shouldn't think I'm scummy for that specific reason."

Hmm. Drap also never included A50 in their reads. Also in post 109 they claim they will have a lot of more reads after EoD and that could be signfying their playstyle. So maybe Bingle, this is them saying hey my reads weren't as good but after EoD, I can give you the reads you are looking for. Unless you were talking about the quality at the time which is understandable but them saying that is actually seeing that they actually didn't have the potential as town to give the full in depth analytical reads until the specified town. So back to the post... in post 13, VFP votes T3 (RVS) saying every post above me is town as a meme. Then A50 votes VFP probably as a meme. That's how I saw it. Drap then replies to that post saying they didn't notice that till you pointed it out which I actually don't know what it means; they townread VFP so I doubt they actually believed that read; more of a sarcastic telling. You see how A50 never pointed that out? Or anyone else? Even you at that time never said anything till now, if you really had scumread them for not appealing to what you said, then you would have probably gotten offended at that time and replied and asked what it meant etc (trying to solve Drap's allignment). Look in post 124 where Gypx replies to the exact same one and says "pls tell me you're not serious" . Then they vote Drap because of what they replied to A50. Drap then responds that there are more scummier things than that. He asks to explain and implies that gypx is reaching for a reason to vote them. Okay now I see your response where in post 133 you say this is the third most compelling reason to wagon him. Gypx claims that he took the thing too seriously and claims that he should have voted which is a weird take... I wouldn't have done that and I don't know who would. I don't even think at that time Drap was scumreading Gypx to even place a vote. Last read was on 103 claiming they were more null. This is why I started scumreading Gypx more than Drap. Drap then responds to Gypx using what I said of how Drap townread VFP in their reads so them saying "NGl, I didn't notice that til lyou pointed it out" wasn't them trying to find VFP scum. Drap already had voted Gypx as drap explains and that's why they didn't vote them. as well as them saying there is more scummy reasons to case them on which is LAMIST but that could just be town portraying humbleness of a read where they see, the potrayed scum in this case Gypx scumreading them based o nsomething they thought they did was towny (as town).

teal deer: He's playing a very political game, and I don't think his solving is genuine.

I really don't see why prof is scum. I'm going to UNVOTE: for now.

As to why people are scumreading Prof:

His entrance sounded forced, and his immediate justification for it makes me think he's too worried about how he's coming across. 19 is a bit performative and I don't particularly like the way he danced around my wagon. This was less of a big deal when I thought he was a true newbie, but being an alt makes it less likely to simply be jitters.

His fluff/content ratio is actually pretty good, but the content he does have is very political. Sheeping me and asking for my other reads is a very safe move, even if I'm right on Gypyx. 103 shows an effort=town read for both me and Mena. VFP/T3/Gypyx feel mostly like fluff reads. It feels more like a readslist because he thought I expected him to have reads at that point in the game than a genuine reads list. I also would have expected a natural thought process to put the very similar reads of me and Mena adjacent to each other, rather than as bookends to the weaker, low content reads.

It's been mentioned that 113 is a pretty awful take. (A50 calling VFP's post a scumclaim is incredibly nonintuitive and I'd expect anyone without extensive A50 experience to look at that and go "What are you smoking old man?" not "Oh, yeah, 3 townreads in RVS is a scumclaim.") This suggests to me that Prof had absolutely no paranoia about A50's comment, which shows a distinct lack of town perspective in that he wasn't trying to figure out A50's alignment.

128 is a defense by way of pedantry (often scum). It's not "I'm not scummy and here's why" it's "You shouldn't think I'm scummy for that specific reason."

teal deer: He's playing a very political game, and I don't think his solving is genuine.

That makes sense, I was actually about to ask why.

I'm not sayin the thin ISO is AI, I'm saying lack of contribution or reads is AI. I'm town, have a thin ISO but I've been giving reads.

See, this is what really bothers me here. This is what I was referring to as T3 changed their reads.

Why is Drap town: Contextual Context + Analysis

Spoiler:

This is hypocritical because yourself haven't gave any reads and I explained it above.

Now I will do some concurrent reads on Drap that are towny in my eyes. Because pooky asked I think.

Also before I start... I want to point out about the PR hunting thing (which I didn't even know that was thing really in this setup till some time later). @A50 you claim the regarding how it can be seen as pr hunting but @Bingle (your townread) does the same thing in post 194 where they ask pooky regarding their "motivation/reads" I just think that playstyle of Drap is NAI and could be seen from both side of the world.

In post 170, Drap answers my question regarding they being town and I actually was expecting that reaction, it felt geninue as it was a unique read. "You added something new as giving more preszsure to those weren't receiving it." as well as "Despite myself being put in your Poe I liked how and the way you covered both me and Gypx" Scum doesn't focus attention on themselves like that. If they were scum, all that info I said in that analytical post and Drap points THAT specific post? Eh, I don't see them doing that as scum.

In post 245, they reply to Lukewarm's scumcase and I actually hate Luke's points here because all of that is debunked with Drap's points. Number 1 is a valid reason and the actual truth. 2 is more subjective. 3, again I thought it was Sarcastic too. "nice enterence to T3 saying WTF" lol, how can you take that seriously. 4. Drap did mention Gypx. 5. I think 5 is the only good point out of your whole scum case @Luke, and Drap I expected a better reactio nto that. 6, Drap is right here....It is so obvious that it was fake especially when Drap townread VFP way before hand in their 103 reads.

@lukewarm I actually read back through this and now really see how bad those reads are. This actually makes you look scummier than Drap ngl.

All your points are off (there is literal proof that could debunk all of your points) besides maybe point 5.

I don't know how you were reading that... but it just seemed you as scum trying to pinpoint information making Drap look bad as possible. My scumread puts out this bad scumcase on Drap, of couse I will give townpings on Drap.

Gypx has the worse quote here in post 309 where they only respond to only one of what Drap says (their rebutall points) and says that don't see other stuff to case them and so they ask them what do you think is more scummy. Drap response in 314 feels geninue of town confusion and just not them being able to decipher what Gypx is saying. Why would you as town give someone else who YOU scumread another 'scummier" reason just because you told them there is another scummier reason. If they tell you that there was a scummer reason to scumcase them on and you ask them that question then that means you as scum probably never checked what Drap said earlier or maybe never read up on contextual reads based on other peoples interactions but solely on what you are interacting between Gypx + Drap. This analysis just finds me that Gypx is scum here for that weird ass question. In post 315, they understand the question and says to go read Lukewarm's case on them which in post 316 he continues to say that Luke at least gave multiple things why he was scummy and further scumreads Gypx because they choose a post at random and decide to call it your vote reasoning which is what Gypx exactly did.

Drap also in post 317 responds to Gypx saying how come they responded to me but nothing about Lukewarm (I am assuming our reaction) which is a town ping because it just seems like Drap is trying to figure out Gypyx's true allingment here and their interactions with others including me + lukewarm. But that is subjective and needs more clarification from Drap themselves.

Gypx then goes out to his way to say they don't read posts. Gypx reiterates the same question which Drap already answered by the way. Drap says it was an omgus because Drap had their vote way before Gypx made their line of reasoning on Drap.

In post 319, Gypx agrees to go read Lukewarm's case on Drap to find what's scummier than Gypx's own line of reasoning.

In post 323, they say to quit deflecting. Even though, drap answered everything in post 320 and 315-316 to both questions of what Gypx asked. Gypyx even AGREED to read over the lukewarm's case on Drap just to look at reasons. Drap explains in post 324, on how he is NOT deflecting.

Gypyx had this shitty interaction with Drap and everyone calls Drap out, and its in the sense of me thinking how does Gypyx get away with bad push and reasonings. If you look back in that whole interaction, you can see comprehend that interaction and find that Gypyx looks way worse than Drap. In fact Gypyx becoems a hypocrite later on and deflects other people's reads and etc.

I don't think post 431 was ever in consideration of Bingle's analysis on Drap. They give more in depth reasonins as Drap promised they would do and they have stayed consistent with their reads on 380. They are actually reading the game and trying to solve especially ISOing the game and referencing different posts there and there and they also give a unique read on Mena.

Post 432, NGL is weird though.

In post 442, Drap gives NM multiple quotes of his to see which one they think they could be scum. What fucking mafia does that

Please. Tell me a world where Drap scum does this and makes it purposeful for other people to find dirt on them. Scum never risks that.

In post 460, scum luke hops on the "Drap is hunting prs" wagon. Even though everyone in this game including Drap has given their reads and that claim is literally useless.

I really think I am right here. There is no way Drap flips scum here if they were to get condemned.

I would really hate to vote Drap here but I don't want to NC on day 1, so that will be the only time I will be voting Drap is to get a condemn on Day one. (unless we can do that? i don't know, I was informed in Newbie games that's a bad thing, don't know about this setup though.)

But I expect you @Drap to actually defend yourself here IF you are town. And to give reasonings for your scumreads and on why you are town. DO NOT sheep me as it would be obvious. I am defending you more than you defended yourself and its honestly sad.

I still hope town actually sees this on how Drap is townier at least than t3 + luke and honestly the 3 scum are Luke, T3, and Gypyx.

[GrandpaMo]

This is the proper format:

Drap is town because ___________

^ the reason used here should be your strongest reason.

It's not just that. I said contextual read because its based on the context of other people around. Its not just because I townread drap because of x, y, z. Just read the last part and it gives you in depth analyis of my view on why I townread drap.

[GrandpaMo]

@Grandpa:

So, you are saying SCUM!T3 sheeped you TWICE into voting SCUM!Luke, despite YOU thinking earlier that it's not a good idea to bus on D1 in this setup?

OK, you're Town.

they don't even think luke is scum anymore lol

[GrandpaMo]

i can't read something that long

a50 help me

i would give u tldr but i literally just spent 3+ hours trying to solve this game so i dont feel like typing really

its just the interaction between gypx and how gypx came out way scummier and just the overall tone these recent posts

[GrandpaMo]

@Grandpa:

So, you are saying SCUM!T3 sheeped you TWICE into voting SCUM!Luke, despite YOU thinking earlier that it's not a good idea to bus on D1 in this setup?

OK, you're Town.

they don't even think luke is scum anymore lol

Does it matter? They voted them twice already, sheeping Town!You. Why on earth would they sheep YOU of all people? Why not sheep someone who SRs a TOWNIE? Why not sheep someone who is .. erm.. better known on the site? What do they get from sheeping someone fairly new to MS unto voting their Scum p??

just look at the way it has set up. im saying the word sheeped because in the context ... i set up that interaction between me and luke and t3 just followed and tagged along and MAYBE made their own conclusions. and it does matter imo. changing reads is pivotal and i explained that them voting vfp was a way of diffusion of assessment.

[GrandpaMo]

gypyx feels kind of townie to me tho

ive played with scum gypyx and he is not this smooth as scum

"Gypx has the worse quote here in post 309 where they only respond to only one of what Drap says (their rebutall points) and says that don't see other stuff to case them and so they ask them what do you think is more scummy. Drap response in 314 feels geninue of town confusion and just not them being able to decipher what Gypx is saying. Why would you as town give someone else who YOU scumread another 'scummier" reason just because you told them there is another scummier reason. If they tell you that there was a scummer reason to scumcase them on and you ask them that question then that means you as scum probably never checked what Drap said earlier or maybe never read up on contextual reads based on other peoples interactions but solely on what you are interacting between Gypx + Drap. This analysis just finds me that Gypx is scum here for that weird ass question. In post 315, they understand the question and says to go read Lukewarm's case on them which in post 316 he continues to say that Luke at least gave multiple things why he was scummy and further scumreads Gypx because they choose a post at random and decide to call it your vote reasoning which is what Gypx exactly did." this is what i said

also this is more important

"Drap also in post 317 responds to Gypx saying how come they responded to me but nothing about Lukewarm (I am assuming our reaction) which is a town ping because it just seems like Drap is trying to figure out Gypyx's true allingment here and their interactions with others including me + lukewarm. But that is subjective and needs more clarification from Drap themselves. Gypx then goes out to his way to say they don't read posts. Gypx reiterates the same question which Drap already answered by the way. Drap says it was an omgus because Drap had their vote way before Gypx made their line of reasoning on Drap. In post 319, Gypx agrees to go read Lukewarm's case on Drap to find what's scummier than Gypx's own line of reasoning. In post 323, they say to quit deflecting. Even though, drap answered everything in post 320 and 315-316 to both questions of what Gypx asked. Gypyx even AGREED to read over the lukewarm's case on Drap just to look at reasons. Drap explains in post 324, on how he is NOT deflecting."

these are quick tldrs of why gypyx is more scummy

[GrandpaMo]

Still think Luke and Gypyx are both scum.

i just realized u have the same reads as me. smh

[GrandpaMo]

I would like to hear more from Almost50, Bingle, Mena, and Pine. I feel like I have some kind of feel for everyone else in the thread, but all 4 of you guys are big question marks right now. Like, Bingle, even when you talked about the ProfessorD case, it felt more like a "this is what other people are scumreading him for" as opposed to what you think yourself.

Who are you 4 currently leaning towards for our Day 1 Elim?

i disagree. while reading back at what bingle said, it felt geninune to how he felt and he even referenced it a while back saying how that specific thing was scummy and brought it up in his scumcase

[GrandpaMo]

I would like to hear more from Almost50, Bingle, Mena, and Pine. I feel like I have some kind of feel for everyone else in the thread, but all 4 of you guys are big question marks right now. Like, Bingle, even when you talked about the ProfessorD case, it felt more like a "this is what other people are scumreading him for" as opposed to what you think yourself.

Who are you 4 currently leaning towards for our Day 1 Elim?

I do wanna hear from A50 + menq + pine.

pine has said they will have done reads by today but no reads to be found anywhere...

[GrandpaMo]

But like, that’s pretty much it.

Did you just sell out your scum team?

yea, you are just mad he called out you + menq. smh

[GrandpaMo]

But like, that’s pretty much it.

Did you just sell out your scum team?

wait what r ur reads? you scumread drap but who do u think drap is scum with?

[GrandpaMo]

But like, that’s pretty much it.

Did you just sell out your scum team?

wait what r ur reads? you scumread drap but who do u think drap is scum with?

nvm dont answer this. im isoing you and looking at ur concurrent reads unless you have any updates.

do you think there is ever a world where t3 is scum wit drap or is it just explicitly 1 in between?

[GrandpaMo]

i still think there is one between luke + t3 and gypyx + drap.

if drap flips scum then gypyx is most likely town.
if drap flips town then gypyx is most likely scum.

if luke flips scum then t3 is most likely town
if luke flips town then t3 is most likely town.

this would imply that gypyx + t3 are same allignment and luke + drap are same allignment.

im still iffy on luke. yes i did say my solve is luke, t3, gypyx, but using my logic; it wouldn't work out propely. it would make t3 + gypyx scum and luke + drap town.

the only time luke would be in the reads if it is luke, drap = scum and that makes t3 + gpyyx town now.

pine is also another viable scumslot that has not been explored yet.

[GrandpaMo]

do you think there is ever a world where t3 is scum wit drap or is it just explicitly 1 in between?

No, I think I can read T3 pretty well and protecting a scum buddy against me isn't something I see T3 doing.

can you elaborate on this?

[GrandpaMo]

i still think there is one between luke + t3 and gypyx + drap.

if drap flips scum then gypyx is most likely town.
if drap flips town then gypyx is most likely scum.

if luke flips scum then t3 is most likely town
if luke flips town then t3 is most likely

town

.{I think you meant scum here}

this would imply that gypyx + t3 are same allignment and luke + drap are same allignment

.

im still iffy on luke. yes i did say my solve is luke, t3, gypyx, but using my logic; it wouldn't work out propely. it would make t3 + gypyx scum and luke + drap town.

the only time luke would be in the reads if it is luke, drap = scum and that makes t3 + gpyyx town now.

pine is also another viable scumslot that has not been explored yet.

I would like further clarity from Grandpa about this. Like I see where two claims in your first sentence can lead to the orange and blue sections. Me and T3 crossvoted, so you don't think we could be partners. Gpyx and ProfessorD crossvoted, so you don't think they could be partners.

But where is the red coming from? How are gypyx and T3 linked? How are me and ProfessorD linked? I mean, me and ProfessorD also crossvoted, so unless you are using some logic that I am missing, this pairing seems inconsistent with your anti-partner logic you used before.

would like clarity plz

thanks for catching that. i actually did mean scum lol. you would know because you are scum

in all seriousness though, it should make sense because from the orange and blue... i am not using individuality anymore but looking more of pairs and thinking that now bussing is a viable option... there is def a scene here for that scenerio to play out. i even said i was still iffy on you because from my logic if drap flipped town it would mean you are town as well and THAT read comes from the T3 + luke pairing

[GrandpaMo]

Bingle, wouldn't it be so random if you just like, voted Drapion right now?

That would be like so crazy and cool

stop bussing smh.

i will only vote if i have to if there will be a NK but i am assuming someone else will be the hammer since i do NOT wanna take the blame when this flips town smh

[GrandpaMo]

I am really really really gut/meta/vibe scumreading pooky.

Drap has incurred the wrath of the milktank(!?)

crazy how no one fucking sees u as scum.

you deadass vote right after everyone voted and sheeped literally everyone

[GrandpaMo]

gramps nbodo ywill blame you lets go

whats the vc? am i hammer?

[GrandpaMo]

This is the proper format:

Drap is town because ___________

^ the reason used here should be your strongest reason.

Teel deer:

Antiassociatives and gamestate read.

GPa agrees that Drap is nominally scummy on play, but thinks there are bigger fish to fry who are not S/S with Drap.

that is false. you are misleading it in a way to make it seem like oh I find drap scum but there are more people scummier so I am not voting them. yes i only agreed only 2 specific parts that came out scummy and that was in the beginning and one towards the end and I explained it in there, however I went on how their reads felt genuine and they were in a towny mindset trying to solve the gamesolve, acquiring a townread from me. Then I went on to explain my scumread and how they should be the viable vote rather than Drap and I explained it in the interactions which may from your perspective may have misunderstood.

idk if you are trying to signify nominally scummy on play as in I think they there is a chance they might flip scum. atp i rlly doubt they just by this fast ass bw and especially when all my scumreads hopped on this wagon

[GrandpaMo]

I'm saying that you think Drap looks scummy, but that because of the things around him you think he is actually town.

You did have things you townread him for based on his own play, I will admit that. I think they are not town indicative things and thus largely ignored them. For example, you think Drap's tr on me makes drap likely town when I think townreading me is actually fairly sketchy from him. If you put more weight behind those things than I thought I apologize, but I assumed given the title of the case that the contextual clues were more important to you and pooky was looking for a "Strongest reason".

Am I wrong that you see what drap has done as something that is reasonable to scumread? (That's what is meant by nominally scummy, btw)

I townread them based on individuality. I feel like if I were doing that, then that would have been an elebarote way of bussing where you give contextual interactions on why you townread them but you scumread them individual because YOU have to since they are being hammered her. However, I am not doing that. I am flat right out defending them because of I townread them and I gave the analysis right after I went on with the Gypyx + Drap interaction, even giving you post numbers on his towniness. To answer your question, yes while I do see why you scumread them, I don't find that scum indicitivate of them and find reasons why I townread them etc if that makes sense.

[GrandpaMo]

i still think there is one between luke + t3 and gypyx + drap.

if drap flips scum then gypyx is most likely town.
if drap flips town then gypyx is most likely scum.

if luke flips scum then t3 is most likely town
if luke flips town then t3 is most likely

town

.{I think you meant scum here}

this would imply that gypyx + t3 are same allignment and luke + drap are same allignment

.

im still iffy on luke. yes i did say my solve is luke, t3, gypyx, but using my logic; it wouldn't work out propely. it would make t3 + gypyx scum and luke + drap town.

the only time luke would be in the reads if it is luke, drap = scum and that makes t3 + gpyyx town now.

pine is also another viable scumslot that has not been explored yet.

I would like further clarity from Grandpa about this. Like I see where two claims in your first sentence can lead to the orange and blue sections. Me and T3 crossvoted, so you don't think we could be partners. Gpyx and ProfessorD crossvoted, so you don't think they could be partners.

But where is the red coming from? How are gypyx and T3 linked? How are me and ProfessorD linked? I mean, me and ProfessorD also crossvoted, so unless you are using some logic that I am missing, this pairing seems inconsistent with your anti-partner logic you used before.

would like clarity plz

thanks for catching that. i actually did mean scum lol. you would know because you are scum

in all seriousness though, it should make sense because from the orange and blue... i am not using individuality anymore but looking more of pairs and thinking that now bussing is a viable option... there is def a scene here for that scenerio to play out. i even said i was still iffy on you because from my logic if drap flipped town it would mean you are town as well and THAT read comes from the T3 + luke pairing

There is nothing in the original post that links the two pairs tho. Like the only thing I can see is that you happened to right me on the left side of my pairing and you also happened to right drap on the left side of his pair. But I don't see why you could not have just as easily written the pairs as

if drap flips scum then gypyx is most likely town.
if drap flips town then gypyx is most likely scum.

if t3 flips scum then luke is most likely town
if t3 flips town then luke is most likely scum

this would imply that gypyx + luke are same allignment and t3 + drap are same allignment

.

You have not provided any logic to cross reference the pairs the way you did, and not ^^this^^ way. Which is the way I think the same pairs play out, since I town read gypyx and scum read t3+drap.

I thought I was clear enough on my logic. Like I say, you and T3 have an interaction where I think there is one scum in there, correct? (it being my logic?) and gypyx and drap have an interaction where I think there is one scum.

Now I am thinking the mafia is T3 more than you Luke but I like I said I was still iffy on you. So for example, if I think T3 is scum in that interaction and Gypyx in that interaction now guess we are left with you + drap. That would imply you + drap are the same alignment (that doesn't mean you are both mafia, but same alignment overall) regardless of bussing because of interactions that played out. Now take another example, if I thought you were scum and drap are scum, it would leave T3 + gypyx in an allignment together. It is basically process of elimination based on interactions.

If you look at your logic.

"if drap flips scum then gypyx is most likely town.
if drap flips town then gypyx is most likely scum.

if t3 flips scum then luke is most likely town
if t3 flips town then luke is most likely scum

this would imply that gypyx + luke are same allignment and t3 + drap are same allignment."

which is literally basically the same thing but now you are putting gypyx + luke same allignment and t3 + drap same allignment. you used that same logic but switched t3 and luke. now ima ask you this drap flips town, then gypyx is scum... now t3 flips scum... then luke is town...

the whole gneral consensus is gypyx + t3 + luke

i paired gypyx + t3

you paired t3 + luke...

read this part "i even said i was still iffy on you because from my logic if drap flipped town it would mean you are town as well and THAT read comes from the T3 + luke pairing"

dont forget im still basing my individuality reads into this. you flipping scum, ensures that drap is scum. im thinking of elim of you before t3 that is also something to think about not how you based it where you put t3 first. im getting info based on ur flip etc.

honestly i see this as you getting offended to being paired with drap...

if drap flips scum

then

gypyx is most likely town.

if drap flips town

then

gypyx is most likely scum.

if luke flips scum

then

t3 is most likely town

if luke flips town

then

t3 is most likely scum.

hopefully this chart gives better cross reference.

[GrandpaMo]

I’m no PR so it doesn’t really matter too too much.
I’m also in another game and it’s hard to do both with so much working IRL.

*Intent to hammer myself when it comes to that point*
Sorry guys, hope you don’t call me names after I flip the Green.
I’m just really busy.

lol this flips town

[GrandpaMo]

VOTE: Prof. Drapion

is this hammer?

[GrandpaMo]

i think town loses this game if this is how we are playing just by the judgemental basis that scum could be one of the people being collectively ignored or townread

[GrandpaMo]

i think town loses this game if this is how we are playing just by the judgemental basis that scum could be one of the people being collectively ignored or townread

There is a big difference between "good enough to be out of the elimination pool on Day 1" and "convinced someone is town for the rest of the game."

I know my own reads will evolve as we get more information, such as Drap's flip, the Night kill, and if we get any PR info.

I'm not really used to the game being solved by the end of Day 1, so this seems par for the course imo

same LMAO

[GrandpaMo]

i think town loses this game if this is how we are playing just by the judgemental basis that scum could be one of the people being collectively ignored or townread

There is a big difference between "good enough to be out of the elimination pool on Day 1" and "convinced someone is town for the rest of the game."

I know my own reads will evolve as we get more information, such as Drap's flip, the Night kill, and if we get any PR info.

I'm not really used to the game being solved by the end of Day 1, so this seems par for the course imo

sometimes it gets like that though.. I have been spectating some other opens including the one i flipped town on in open 809 and some who are also playing in it right there so i cant talk bout those people since its ongoing game. however while im seeing the layout and everything it seems like it looks easy to get into and easy to solve from a town mindset in the early game but then towards a day 1 flip, you have people start distancing themselves and it starts making it hard for both mafia and town. thats my own opinion on how i saw it

[GrandpaMo]

i think town loses this game if this is how we are playing just by the judgemental basis that scum could be one of the people being collectively ignored or townread

This post makes me suspect you on a town flip!

what does this even mean

[GrandpaMo]

Pooky is probably scum if Drap dies and then there’s good odds I die tonight despite having done fuck all so far


So pls bear that in mind if I do die

If drap’s town

Oh also I’m not confident in this by any means but I think T3 may well be town

these are honestly not up to par reads... like why t3 town and pooky scum if drap is town??

Like don’t take that as gospel but also don’t speedrun the elim tomo if I’m not here and don’t have a chance to check that

yea thats why i wanted to talk more here figuring out shit. like im the top poster and im trying an actual effort as town to figure who scum out and i could just be bad at this game honestly

[GrandpaMo]

as i usually do.. i will give my written analysis on the flip nd give the different apporaches on how who mafia could be depending on the flip....

this will be way harder since instead of 2 mafia as im used to, it will be three mafia.

[GrandpaMo]

honestly i see this as you getting offended to being paired with drap...

Not really offended, as much as just confused lol

And I remained confused until you spelled out how you came to your that conclusion. I am sorry to say that I think that the logic you used is a bit nonsensical, and that is why I did not understand right away.

--You created two pairs (T3/Me) and (gypyx/Drap), and I saw you point out the interactions that made you pair us off this way, so I'm following along to this point.
--Then you looked at the pairs, and you think that T3 is more likely in T3/Luke pair and you think that gypyx is more likely in the gypyx/drap pair, fair enough.
--So you concluded that you believe that T3+gypyx are a scum team. I am still following you to this point, so we are all good up to here

But then your next step is where I think you should reexamine your logic.
But then concluded that if you are wrong on one of the pairs, you must be wrong on the other one, and would flip your entire scum team instead of just flipping that slot. And that just... doesn't make any sense to me...


I brought it up because I was confused, but I think I understand how you drew your conclusions, even through I don't like your logic. So there is no need to bac and forth over this right now. We can cross this bridge once we get to the point that someone out of t3/me/drap/gypyx flips

i just saw this sorry. fwiw flipping only one slot would just include bias imo. thats why its more probable that the whole pair flips together nd thats based on the interactions you pointed out.

like you said, there is no need for this back and forth. this is how I see it from MY perspective. interactions/pairings are hard to explain when you have it in your mind at one point and trying to place it on text. i tried to draw it by highlighting a simple chart to give you a better understanding.

[GrandpaMo]

Just as general advice, GPa, you wanna avoid relying too much on preflip partner associations because you can easily fall into confirmation biases. I personally don't know how drap's flip will influence my reads either way, because after the night I'll have more information and will want to reevaluate either way. Getting too married to an association can lead in to chaining mislims based on one bad read.

I don't have any regrets about this lim either way, because regardless of flip we have a ton of information based on how people interacted with drap and the wagon. If he flips scum, sweet. If he flips town, oh well, but we didn't lose a PR and he has been a major talking point for the majority of the day.

yea i dont despise the wagon.

nd its wayy better than a no elim.

hopefully scum is more clearer after this flip

[GrandpaMo]

Just as general advice, GPa, you wanna avoid relying too much on preflip partner associations because you can easily fall into confirmation biases. I personally don't know how drap's flip will influence my reads either way, because after the night I'll have more information and will want to reevaluate either way. Getting too married to an association can lead in to chaining mislims based on one bad read.

I don't have any regrets about this lim either way, because regardless of flip we have a ton of information based on how people interacted with drap and the wagon. If he flips scum, sweet. If he flips town, oh well, but we didn't lose a PR and he has been a major talking point for the majority of the day.

i also have gypyx as a major indivual read as scum nd not realaly reliant on anything. i just used the partner association as a further thing to confirm my reasoning and logic. i also have 2 ppl who i scumread in the back of my head who i wont say until day 2 if im alive by then

[GrandpaMo]

btw the fact that drap is dead but still hasnt shown up to give dying reads or w/e means this slot probly flips red

eh thats nai.

[GrandpaMo]

btw the fact that drap is dead but still hasnt shown up to give dying reads or w/e means this slot probly flips red

eh thats nai.

You always crop up with the weirdest comments apropos of nothing

i think im gaming this game actually unlike u :p

in all seriousness, it is tho.. they could be afk etc. just nai regardless of any allignment

[GrandpaMo]

This Animal Police Department is on fire today

where did Pine go

did he get replaced or something?

no. idk where our mod is at

i wanna see the flip already

[GrandpaMo]

Also I wasn’t lying when I said I wasn’t looking for Masons.
I was just trying to get town Cred but it failed.

You got the WCFTWR.
Not that I didn’t want to be gone today, but I was hoping it would be for a actual reason.
I guess TBF some gave a decent reasoning but majority was not.

is this claiming to be scum? wtf.. no way

[GrandpaMo]

Pooky, I think GPa believes his angles to be true regardless of his alignment, which makes me think at the very least he and Drap aren't S/S. Do you get a different vibe?

im not sure if i remembered to answer this but Gpa probly town since Drap is scum

how am i town in ur eyes. i thought i would have gotten shit on if it flipped scum because everyone would think im defending "my" mafia partner hard if i were mafia...

[GrandpaMo]

I have a good feeling about our animal police department this game

omg i just realized that LMAOO thats actually funny.

[GrandpaMo]

Introduction

Spoiler:

Wow. So Drap actually flipped scum. I was so keen on them flipping town and now looking back at my tunnel and analyzing the confirmation bias I have now where they are scum… I just also researched what Encryptor does. Can anyone tell me what Cowardly modifier does or is? I can see what Bingle is talking about. I did outline 2 or 3 scum quotes in my analysis but never thought highly of it. Overall, I really thought they have played the same way. Honestly if I am scum for hard defending a mafia that’s fair; you can even think of a possible elim on me to remove any doubts/regrets the town may have. However I feel like the input I provided and this flip actually brings a lot of info. I will give different perspectives and approaches on how this may flip. I am used to the newbie setup where it is only two mafia and figuring out only one scum after night one. And now I have to decipher all the approaches that two scum may have been involved in. We are on a great start in my opinion…

First Approach:

The “full bus” approach. This is where both of the other scum hopped on the wagon and bussed here. This is also the most probable approach as we see everyone pushing for the vote and no one rejecting or focused somewhere besides me, Pine, Dann, and Mena (sort of…)

Second Approach:

The “semi bus” approach. This is where one scum is on the wagon and the other is either focused somewhere else or defending. This approach is the second most probable.

Third Approach:

The “off” approach. This is where both of the scum are not on the wagon as the name suggests. This is the last probable and this is because in my opinion, scum should have took the opportunity to bus to get more town cred plus because it was the most optimal at that time as no one was giving up the wagon nor pivoting. This pool consists of me, Pine, Dann, and Mena (sort of…I will get more into this in my analysis)

First approach analysis

Spoiler:

This is where both of the Drap’s teammates were on the wagon. This pool of players include but not limited to: Lukewarm, Gypyx, Pooky, (the three main aggressors), Almost50, Not_Mafia, Bingle, and VFP.

Through my impliciative reads I gave before the flip, I said that if drap flips scum then gypyx is most likely town and that would make T3 town. Now, I retract everything and Lukewarm turned out to be right. But now I am thinking about, was he right because he knew he was scum with Drapion? Why would you question my logic on why you and Drap could be paired. There is two possible choices here. This is only assuming VFP, Bingle, Almost50, NM, and Pooky are town:
Scum between Gypyx + T3 and scum between Luke + Drap which now we found out that Drap was the scum and so that makes Luke town and debunks my logic of the same alignment. Through THAT logic, this would make more of an implication that there is a high chance that there is scum between Gypyx + T3. Gypyx + Drap is way less likely because of the interaction pointed out earlier in my analysis on how there was one scum in there; turned out to be true. Going through that logic and now making an associate read with Gypyx or T3… this would imply that T3 is Drap’s partner through bussing. That is the first way to look at it. Second way is to look at early interaction from Drap. Pooky is the only other one who I can see paired with Drap here if pooky is scum. I did have a slight scumread on pooky individually before everything… questioning his weird playstyle that is unusual to me. I have played with him before and they never were this energetic or charismatic about the game like last time they flipped town. Looking back at the interactions to see a possible pairing. Pooky actually scum read Lukewarm first in post 376 and ignored interactions with Drapion later on. Then Pooky starts sheeping NM and Mena in post 45 but calls Mena scum in EoD. That's probably because pooky already had a scumread on them. Drap had always had pooky in their null reads. Also in post 614, pooky tells me that maybe my scumreads are bussing and is rushing a night phase to happen because they know they will possibly get townread for pushing this however this quote will be funny if pooky is actually aligned with Drap here. My other read was Bingle, but there were some early interactions that came off a better way honestly that makes it seem that Bingle doesn’t provide a whole scumcase on Drap as scum. Lastly, Almost50 is also another probable candidate… I was thinking about this one and I see how they could be aligned and this could be a second approach analysis but why I scumread them could have gotten on the input that they never really pushed Drap at all. Almost50 in post 158 respond to Drap saying they will take their word for calling my wall post good. They say in post 346, that they see VFP scum and have Gypyx, Drap, Pine and Man as null. And 6 others are not in the voting pool of his. In post 456, Almost50 finally brings Drap as scum and retracts VFP scum. I get on how about A50 tried to use surface level logic when calling me out on it. Responds with individual experience not group experience which is what I wasn’t saying here. I said everyone was experienced enough implying Drap was experienced to know. There are tidbits of A50 replying to Pooky regarding Drap including post 664. As well as others like post 343; 344, 349, 350. Small interaction that I caught while ISO’ing.
This may be a reach but possible same alignment as scum or town.

TLDR; If Drap was scum and the first approach seems to be true, possible alignment includes T3 + Pooky + Almost50.

Second Approach Analysis.

Spoiler:

This is the most realistic approach due to the nature of our players being afk / coasty. I actually think my alignment I will give on about this is true. I will also reference it back in my conclusion. So assuming that T3 is aligned with Drap here, the other person who is not here + defending (from the pool of pine, mena, grandpa, dann, and mann), would be Mena. Mena pointed something out in the beginning regarding how a post of Drap was scummy of his. I thought that was town. But Drap also converses and memes with Mena after and Drap in post 68 asks… “Mena am I in the right thread” as a possible openwolf. Mena comes back with no input at all until EoD. This is possible just lack of activity from town that could have been made to look bad for Mena. However another way to look at this, if T3 + Dann is a possible pair, if that were the case then the high probability will be that Bingle would be paired as the third scum but I said earlier that I doubt I see that Bingle is paired with Drap here so that would debunk T3 being with Dann. The only possible route for this T3 + Mena + Pine or Mann. Since there hasn’t been any info at ALL from pine or mann then that slot still is viable to a scum read and pairing with T3 + Mena. What about if T3 isn’t scum? Let us start with Mena being scum to remove bias; my whole logic would contradict if I put anyone else besides VFP and NM. For example, if I paired Mena + Pooky that means it would be a Mena + Pooky + A50 scum team which isn’t true at all. Or if I paired it with Luke then Luke + Gypyx + Mena scum team which again isn’t true at all. VFP, NM, Pine, Mann, Mena and T3 (assuming T3 is 33% scum; ⅓ chance in the bussing subject) + the ones I just listed (2/3 = 66% chance either or) are the only ones that would work well in this approach where one is bussing in this case (VFP, NM, T3) and two is somewhere else (Pine, Mann, Mena).

TLDR;

Most likely situation if the second approach is true: If T3 is scum from the first approach analysis then a viable scum team could be Mena + T3 + Drap (most likely) or Pine + T3 + Drap (don’t have info) or Mann + T3 + Drap. (don’t have info)

Probable situation if the second approach is true: If VFP is scum (probable) through bussing, then a viable scum team could be the same thing as T3’s scum team but instead of T3, replace it with VFP.

Really highly unlikely situation if the second approach is true: NM. Replace VFP with NM.

Third Approach Analysis

Spoiler:

This is the most unlikely approach out of the three. This pool consists of me, Mena, Pine, and Mann.

Scum could just easily be Pine + Mann + Drap or Pine + Mena + Drap or Mann + Mena + Drap. And no I am NOT including myself because I am town. This is unlikely because the lack of interactions when there are better interactions that have seemed more AI for town to see and decipher conclusions from.

The reason I said sort of is because yes they did vote Drap however it doesn’t count because of the lack of activity and reasoning they never provided therefore they never provided any input on Drap until EoD where they also never commented on anything regarding the game.

Conclusion

Spoiler:

This will probably be a TLDR. But since I got something wrong on Day 1, I am now opening my eyes to all of those perspectives. Do not get mad at me or offended if I paired you with etc. Please just reply and quote and explain to me on why and how. I have a specific way of thinking through my logic and that’s probably why.

In conclusion, I now lean town for Luke + Gypyx. I scumread T3 and see a possible pair that could be Pooky + A50 assuming Bingle, VFP, NM, and everyone who was on the wagon is town. And that is only through the first approach where two of the mafia were on the wagon, implying Pooky and A50 was on the wagon. Second approach is where I think the most likely situation is and basically I get my logic from approach one and combine it with approach two. I can’t pair with Pooky and A50 anymore because that’s two scum not 1. The only 1 scum scenario is VFP, T3, and NM and I can’t do Bingle, Luke, or Gypyx because I individually town read them through approach one. I think the most likely scenario is T3 + Mena (or maybe one of the afks if Mena is town). Third approach is irrelevant in my opinion.

Anyways that’s a quick TLDR on where I stand now. I am honestly confused but I am trying to make it make sense because this game is honestly hard.

Okay here is my fully analysis on that flip. @Pooky I gave you a TLDR in my conclusion just for you. However, I know I am on the chopping block because I did defend someone who indeed flipped scum which I really thought would flip town.

Thoughts on this night kill? I honestly think this is a weird kill. I am trying to think why would they kill Dann, they are either inexperienced or they thought they were paired with someone else. This doesn't bring any info though. Only interactions was with Bingle. I would need to ISO later.

[GrandpaMo]

CORRECTION: I listed 2/3 scum listed in the pool that wasn't pushing for it. Edit to 1/3 chance NOT 2/3 chance. I realized this because I wasn't thinking about Drap and thinking about the concurrent player pool with 3 scum.

CORRECTION2: Forgot to bold second approach in Introduction

[GrandpaMo]

ANOTHER CORRECTION:

I FUCKING FORGOT MANN WAS REPLACED WITH N_M LOL.

So please remove Mann from the reads and do NOT replace Mann with N_M as logic would contradict.

Pool now would only consist of: pine, mena, grandpa, dann.

REPLACE MANN WITH DANN. ( I think I had a proactive interference moment since Dann and Mann are similar.

[GrandpaMo]

Mena + Pine is a fine solve let's do this

I really don't think its that easy. I am paranoid that one scum could be laying in your Animal Department and the other could be Mena / Pine

[GrandpaMo]

Dannflor kill? Thanks for killing a nullread
At this point I'm ready to assume everyone on Drap is not scum.
I haven't seen GM scumplay so idk.
VOTE: A50

A50 was on Drap...also if I were mafia I would have killed you. That would have been the most logical to get me the most towncred. AND YET AGAIN, you keep sheeping what I say. Smh

[GrandpaMo]

Introduction

Spoiler:

Wow. So Drap actually flipped scum. I was so keen on them flipping town and now looking back at my tunnel and analyzing the confirmation bias I have now where they are scum… I just also researched what Encryptor does. Can anyone tell me what Cowardly modifier does or is? I can see what Bingle is talking about. I did outline 2 or 3 scum quotes in my analysis but never thought highly of it. Overall, I really thought they have played the same way. Honestly if I am scum for hard defending a mafia that’s fair; you can even think of a possible elim on me to remove any doubts/regrets the town may have. However I feel like the input I provided and this flip actually brings a lot of info. I will give different perspectives and approaches on how this may flip. I am used to the newbie setup where it is only two mafia and figuring out only one scum after night one. And now I have to decipher all the approaches that two scum may have been involved in. We are on a great start in my opinion…

First Approach:

The “full bus” approach. This is where both of the other scum hopped on the wagon and bussed here. This is also the most probable approach as we see everyone pushing for the vote and no one rejecting or focused somewhere besides me, Pine, Dann, and Mena (sort of…)

Second Approach:

The “semi bus” approach. This is where one scum is on the wagon and the other is either focused somewhere else or defending. This approach is the second most probable.

Third Approach:

The “off” approach. This is where both of the scum are not on the wagon as the name suggests. This is the last probable and this is because in my opinion, scum should have took the opportunity to bus to get more town cred plus because it was the most optimal at that time as no one was giving up the wagon nor pivoting. This pool consists of me, Pine, Dann, and Mena (sort of…I will get more into this in my analysis)

First approach analysis

Spoiler:

This is where both of the Drap’s teammates were on the wagon. This pool of players include but not limited to: Lukewarm, Gypyx, Pooky, (the three main aggressors), Almost50, Not_Mafia, Bingle, and VFP.

Through my impliciative reads I gave before the flip, I said that if drap flips scum then gypyx is most likely town and that would make T3 town. Now, I retract everything and Lukewarm turned out to be right. But now I am thinking about, was he right because he knew he was scum with Drapion? Why would you question my logic on why you and Drap could be paired. There is two possible choices here. This is only assuming VFP, Bingle, Almost50, NM, and Pooky are town:
Scum between Gypyx + T3 and scum between Luke + Drap which now we found out that Drap was the scum and so that makes Luke town and debunks my logic of the same alignment. Through THAT logic, this would make more of an implication that there is a high chance that there is scum between Gypyx + T3. Gypyx + Drap is way less likely because of the interaction pointed out earlier in my analysis on how there was one scum in there; turned out to be true. Going through that logic and now making an associate read with Gypyx or T3… this would imply that T3 is Drap’s partner through bussing. That is the first way to look at it. Second way is to look at early interaction from Drap. Pooky is the only other one who I can see paired with Drap here if pooky is scum. I did have a slight scumread on pooky individually before everything… questioning his weird playstyle that is unusual to me. I have played with him before and they never were this energetic or charismatic about the game like last time they flipped town. Looking back at the interactions to see a possible pairing. Pooky actually scum read Lukewarm first in post 376 and ignored interactions with Drapion later on. Then Pooky starts sheeping NM and Mena in post 45 but calls Mena scum in EoD. That's probably because pooky already had a scumread on them. Drap had always had pooky in their null reads. Also in post 614, pooky tells me that maybe my scumreads are bussing and is rushing a night phase to happen because they know they will possibly get townread for pushing this however this quote will be funny if pooky is actually aligned with Drap here. My other read was Bingle, but there were some early interactions that came off a better way honestly that makes it seem that Bingle doesn’t provide a whole scumcase on Drap as scum. Lastly, Almost50 is also another probable candidate… I was thinking about this one and I see how they could be aligned and this could be a second approach analysis but why I scumread them could have gotten on the input that they never really pushed Drap at all. Almost50 in post 158 respond to Drap saying they will take their word for calling my wall post good. They say in post 346, that they see VFP scum and have Gypyx, Drap, Pine and Man as null. And 6 others are not in the voting pool of his. In post 456, Almost50 finally brings Drap as scum and retracts VFP scum. I get on how about A50 tried to use surface level logic when calling me out on it. Responds with individual experience not group experience which is what I wasn’t saying here. I said everyone was experienced enough implying Drap was experienced to know. There are tidbits of A50 replying to Pooky regarding Drap including post 664. As well as others like post 343; 344, 349, 350. Small interaction that I caught while ISO’ing.
This may be a reach but possible same alignment as scum or town.

TLDR; If Drap was scum and the first approach seems to be true, possible alignment includes T3 + Pooky + Almost50.

Second Approach Analysis.

Spoiler:

This is the most realistic approach due to the nature of our players being afk / coasty. I actually think my alignment I will give on about this is true. I will also reference it back in my conclusion. So assuming that T3 is aligned with Drap here, the other person who is not here + defending (from the pool of pine, mena, grandpa, dann, and mann), would be Mena. Mena pointed something out in the beginning regarding how a post of Drap was scummy of his. I thought that was town. But Drap also converses and memes with Mena after and Drap in post 68 asks… “Mena am I in the right thread” as a possible openwolf. Mena comes back with no input at all until EoD. This is possible just lack of activity from town that could have been made to look bad for Mena. However another way to look at this, if T3 + Dann is a possible pair, if that were the case then the high probability will be that Bingle would be paired as the third scum but I said earlier that I doubt I see that Bingle is paired with Drap here so that would debunk T3 being with Dann. The only possible route for this T3 + Mena + Pine or Mann. Since there hasn’t been any info at ALL from pine or mann then that slot still is viable to a scum read and pairing with T3 + Mena. What about if T3 isn’t scum? Let us start with Mena being scum to remove bias; my whole logic would contradict if I put anyone else besides VFP and NM. For example, if I paired Mena + Pooky that means it would be a Mena + Pooky + A50 scum team which isn’t true at all. Or if I paired it with Luke then Luke + Gypyx + Mena scum team which again isn’t true at all. VFP, NM, Pine, Mann, Mena and T3 (assuming T3 is 33% scum; ⅓ chance in the bussing subject) + the ones I just listed (2/3 = 66% chance either or) are the only ones that would work well in this approach where one is bussing in this case (VFP, NM, T3) and two is somewhere else (Pine, Mann, Mena).

TLDR;

Most likely situation if the second approach is true: If T3 is scum from the first approach analysis then a viable scum team could be Mena + T3 + Drap (most likely) or Pine + T3 + Drap (don’t have info) or Mann + T3 + Drap. (don’t have info)

Probable situation if the second approach is true: If VFP is scum (probable) through bussing, then a viable scum team could be the same thing as T3’s scum team but instead of T3, replace it with VFP.

Really highly unlikely situation if the second approach is true: NM. Replace VFP with NM.

Third Approach Analysis

Spoiler:

This is the most unlikely approach out of the three. This pool consists of me, Mena, Pine, and Mann.

Scum could just easily be Pine + Mann + Drap or Pine + Mena + Drap or Mann + Mena + Drap. And no I am NOT including myself because I am town. This is unlikely because the lack of interactions when there are better interactions that have seemed more AI for town to see and decipher conclusions from.

The reason I said sort of is because yes they did vote Drap however it doesn’t count because of the lack of activity and reasoning they never provided therefore they never provided any input on Drap until EoD where they also never commented on anything regarding the game.

Conclusion

Spoiler:

This will probably be a TLDR. But since I got something wrong on Day 1, I am now opening my eyes to all of those perspectives. Do not get mad at me or offended if I paired you with etc. Please just reply and quote and explain to me on why and how. I have a specific way of thinking through my logic and that’s probably why.

In conclusion, I now lean town for Luke + Gypyx. I scumread T3 and see a possible pair that could be Pooky + A50 assuming Bingle, VFP, NM, and everyone who was on the wagon is town. And that is only through the first approach where two of the mafia were on the wagon, implying Pooky and A50 was on the wagon. Second approach is where I think the most likely situation is and basically I get my logic from approach one and combine it with approach two. I can’t pair with Pooky and A50 anymore because that’s two scum not 1. The only 1 scum scenario is VFP, T3, and NM and I can’t do Bingle, Luke, or Gypyx because I individually town read them through approach one. I think the most likely scenario is T3 + Mena (or maybe one of the afks if Mena is town). Third approach is irrelevant in my opinion.

Anyways that’s a quick TLDR on where I stand now. I am honestly confused but I am trying to make it make sense because this game is honestly hard.

Okay here is my fully analysis on that flip. @Pooky I gave you a TLDR in my conclusion just for you. However, I know I am on the chopping block because I did defend someone who indeed flipped scum which I really thought would flip town.

Thoughts on this night kill? I honestly think this is a weird kill. I am trying to think why would they kill Dann, they are either inexperienced or they thought they were paired with someone else. This doesn't bring any info though. Only interactions was with Bingle. I would need to ISO later.

Tl;dr

its in the conclusion.

"This will probably be a TLDR. But since I got something wrong on Day 1, I am now opening my eyes to all of those perspectives. Do not get mad at me or offended if I paired you with etc. Please just reply and quote and explain to me on why and how. I have a specific way of thinking through my logic and that’s probably why.

In conclusion, I now lean town for Luke + Gypyx. I scumread T3 and see a possible pair that could be Pooky + A50 assuming Bingle, VFP, NM, and everyone who was on the wagon is town. And that is only through the first approach where two of the mafia were on the wagon, implying Pooky and A50 was on the wagon. Second approach is where I think the most likely situation is and basically I get my logic from approach one and combine it with approach two. I can’t pair with Pooky and A50 anymore because that’s two scum not 1. The only 1 scum scenario is VFP, T3, and NM (who were on the wagon) and I can’t do Bingle, Luke, or Gypyx because I individually town read them through approach one. I think the most likely scenario is T3 + Mena (or maybe one of the afks if Mena is town). Third approach is irrelevant in my opinion.

Anyways that’s a quick TLDR on where I stand now. I am honestly confused but I am trying to make it make sense because this game is honestly hard."

[GrandpaMo]

Right. I received a psychologist innocent result on Dannflor.

Please claim your real result or a fake one in your next post, if you haven't done so already. If you got a no result due to being roleblocked, you should claim to have targeted Dannflor, regardless of your actual target.

The reason this is valuable is because there is a 1/11 chance for a false guilty, a 1/11 for a useless result (Dannflor), a 1/11 for a real guilty, and a 8/11 for a real inno. That means that 73% of the time the D1 Psychologist result is useful. It's also likely that the mafia team already has a significantly reduced PR pool based on play and Motion Detection.

We should not hypoclaim results tomorrow, as after tonight the psychologist is probably completely useless in generating innos and guilties (Both scum will have successfully killed, and thus both scum will be false innocents.) but the Psychologist should still be targeting to obfuscate MD results.

We 100% should be aiming to murderface the Roleblocker specifically today, which means that we're aiming specifically for the most protected of the scumlords. The roleblocker, assuming setup understanding, will have been marginally more likely to bus and will be marginally less likely to have been bussed. I intend at some point to look through Drap's townreads as that is where I'll be focusing the majority of my attention.

The day opening of votes on Mena make me disinclined to vote there.

wait why out a inno on the dead person . is it because of babysitter can protect u?

[GrandpaMo]

I got an innocent on Grandpa Mo

ofc i am

[GrandpaMo]

also is it possible to get a replacement with pine? i really dont want to have to sit here being paranoid about an afk scumslot

[GrandpaMo]

Right. I received a psychologist innocent result on Dannflor.

Please claim your real result or a fake one in your next post, if you haven't done so already. If you got a no result due to being roleblocked, you should claim to have targeted Dannflor, regardless of your actual target.

The reason this is valuable is because there is a 1/11 chance for a false guilty, a 1/11 for a useless result (Dannflor), a 1/11 for a real guilty, and a 8/11 for a real inno. That means that 73% of the time the D1 Psychologist result is useful. It's also likely that the mafia team already has a significantly reduced PR pool based on play and Motion Detection.

We should not hypoclaim results tomorrow, as after tonight the psychologist is probably completely useless in generating innos and guilties (Both scum will have successfully killed, and thus both scum will be false innocents.) but the Psychologist should still be targeting to obfuscate MD results.

We 100% should be aiming to murderface the Roleblocker specifically today, which means that we're aiming specifically for the most protected of the scumlords. The roleblocker, assuming setup understanding, will have been marginally more likely to bus and will be marginally less likely to have been bussed. I intend at some point to look through Drap's townreads as that is where I'll be focusing the majority of my attention.

The day opening of votes on Mena make me disinclined to vote there.

wait why out a inno on the dead person . is it because of babysitter can protect u?

because i got a guilty on you lol

[GrandpaMo]

Introduction

Spoiler:

Wow. So Drap actually flipped scum. I was so keen on them flipping town and now looking back at my tunnel and analyzing the confirmation bias I have now where they are scum… I just also researched what Encryptor does. Can anyone tell me what Cowardly modifier does or is? I can see what Bingle is talking about. I did outline 2 or 3 scum quotes in my analysis but never thought highly of it. Overall, I really thought they have played the same way. Honestly if I am scum for hard defending a mafia that’s fair; you can even think of a possible elim on me to remove any doubts/regrets the town may have. However I feel like the input I provided and this flip actually brings a lot of info. I will give different perspectives and approaches on how this may flip. I am used to the newbie setup where it is only two mafia and figuring out only one scum after night one. And now I have to decipher all the approaches that two scum may have been involved in. We are on a great start in my opinion…

First Approach:

The “full bus” approach. This is where both of the other scum hopped on the wagon and bussed here. This is also the most probable approach as we see everyone pushing for the vote and no one rejecting or focused somewhere besides me, Pine, Dann, and Mena (sort of…)

Second Approach:

The “semi bus” approach. This is where one scum is on the wagon and the other is either focused somewhere else or defending. This approach is the second most probable.

Third Approach:

The “off” approach. This is where both of the scum are not on the wagon as the name suggests. This is the last probable and this is because in my opinion, scum should have took the opportunity to bus to get more town cred plus because it was the most optimal at that time as no one was giving up the wagon nor pivoting. This pool consists of me, Pine, Dann, and Mena (sort of…I will get more into this in my analysis)

First approach analysis

Spoiler:

This is where both of the Drap’s teammates were on the wagon. This pool of players include but not limited to: Lukewarm, Gypyx, Pooky, (the three main aggressors), Almost50, Not_Mafia, Bingle, and VFP.

Through my impliciative reads I gave before the flip, I said that if drap flips scum then gypyx is most likely town and that would make T3 town. Now, I retract everything and Lukewarm turned out to be right. But now I am thinking about, was he right because he knew he was scum with Drapion? Why would you question my logic on why you and Drap could be paired. There is two possible choices here. This is only assuming VFP, Bingle, Almost50, NM, and Pooky are town:
Scum between Gypyx + T3 and scum between Luke + Drap which now we found out that Drap was the scum and so that makes Luke town and debunks my logic of the same alignment. Through THAT logic, this would make more of an implication that there is a high chance that there is scum between Gypyx + T3. Gypyx + Drap is way less likely because of the interaction pointed out earlier in my analysis on how there was one scum in there; turned out to be true. Going through that logic and now making an associate read with Gypyx or T3… this would imply that T3 is Drap’s partner through bussing. That is the first way to look at it. Second way is to look at early interaction from Drap. Pooky is the only other one who I can see paired with Drap here if pooky is scum. I did have a slight scumread on pooky individually before everything… questioning his weird playstyle that is unusual to me. I have played with him before and they never were this energetic or charismatic about the game like last time they flipped town. Looking back at the interactions to see a possible pairing. Pooky actually scum read Lukewarm first in post 376 and ignored interactions with Drapion later on. Then Pooky starts sheeping NM and Mena in post 45 but calls Mena scum in EoD. That's probably because pooky already had a scumread on them. Drap had always had pooky in their null reads. Also in post 614, pooky tells me that maybe my scumreads are bussing and is rushing a night phase to happen because they know they will possibly get townread for pushing this however this quote will be funny if pooky is actually aligned with Drap here. My other read was Bingle, but there were some early interactions that came off a better way honestly that makes it seem that Bingle doesn’t provide a whole scumcase on Drap as scum. Lastly, Almost50 is also another probable candidate… I was thinking about this one and I see how they could be aligned and this could be a second approach analysis but why I scumread them could have gotten on the input that they never really pushed Drap at all. Almost50 in post 158 respond to Drap saying they will take their word for calling my wall post good. They say in post 346, that they see VFP scum and have Gypyx, Drap, Pine and Man as null. And 6 others are not in the voting pool of his. In post 456, Almost50 finally brings Drap as scum and retracts VFP scum. I get on how about A50 tried to use surface level logic when calling me out on it. Responds with individual experience not group experience which is what I wasn’t saying here. I said everyone was experienced enough implying Drap was experienced to know. There are tidbits of A50 replying to Pooky regarding Drap including post 664. As well as others like post 343; 344, 349, 350. Small interaction that I caught while ISO’ing.
This may be a reach but possible same alignment as scum or town.

TLDR; If Drap was scum and the first approach seems to be true, possible alignment includes T3 + Pooky + Almost50.

Second Approach Analysis.

Spoiler:

This is the most realistic approach due to the nature of our players being afk / coasty. I actually think my alignment I will give on about this is true. I will also reference it back in my conclusion. So assuming that T3 is aligned with Drap here, the other person who is not here + defending (from the pool of pine, mena, grandpa, dann, and mann), would be Mena. Mena pointed something out in the beginning regarding how a post of Drap was scummy of his. I thought that was town. But Drap also converses and memes with Mena after and Drap in post 68 asks… “Mena am I in the right thread” as a possible openwolf. Mena comes back with no input at all until EoD. This is possible just lack of activity from town that could have been made to look bad for Mena. However another way to look at this, if T3 + Dann is a possible pair, if that were the case then the high probability will be that Bingle would be paired as the third scum but I said earlier that I doubt I see that Bingle is paired with Drap here so that would debunk T3 being with Dann. The only possible route for this T3 + Mena + Pine or Mann. Since there hasn’t been any info at ALL from pine or mann then that slot still is viable to a scum read and pairing with T3 + Mena. What about if T3 isn’t scum? Let us start with Mena being scum to remove bias; my whole logic would contradict if I put anyone else besides VFP and NM. For example, if I paired Mena + Pooky that means it would be a Mena + Pooky + A50 scum team which isn’t true at all. Or if I paired it with Luke then Luke + Gypyx + Mena scum team which again isn’t true at all. VFP, NM, Pine, Mann, Mena and T3 (assuming T3 is 33% scum; ⅓ chance in the bussing subject) + the ones I just listed (2/3 = 66% chance either or) are the only ones that would work well in this approach where one is bussing in this case (VFP, NM, T3) and two is somewhere else (Pine, Mann, Mena).

TLDR;

Most likely situation if the second approach is true: If T3 is scum from the first approach analysis then a viable scum team could be Mena + T3 + Drap (most likely) or Pine + T3 + Drap (don’t have info) or Mann + T3 + Drap. (don’t have info)

Probable situation if the second approach is true: If VFP is scum (probable) through bussing, then a viable scum team could be the same thing as T3’s scum team but instead of T3, replace it with VFP.

Really highly unlikely situation if the second approach is true: NM. Replace VFP with NM.

Third Approach Analysis

Spoiler:

This is the most unlikely approach out of the three. This pool consists of me, Mena, Pine, and Mann.

Scum could just easily be Pine + Mann + Drap or Pine + Mena + Drap or Mann + Mena + Drap. And no I am NOT including myself because I am town. This is unlikely because the lack of interactions when there are better interactions that have seemed more AI for town to see and decipher conclusions from.

The reason I said sort of is because yes they did vote Drap however it doesn’t count because of the lack of activity and reasoning they never provided therefore they never provided any input on Drap until EoD where they also never commented on anything regarding the game.

Conclusion

Spoiler:

This will probably be a TLDR. But since I got something wrong on Day 1, I am now opening my eyes to all of those perspectives. Do not get mad at me or offended if I paired you with etc. Please just reply and quote and explain to me on why and how. I have a specific way of thinking through my logic and that’s probably why.

In conclusion, I now lean town for Luke + Gypyx. I scumread T3 and see a possible pair that could be Pooky + A50 assuming Bingle, VFP, NM, and everyone who was on the wagon is town. And that is only through the first approach where two of the mafia were on the wagon, implying Pooky and A50 was on the wagon. Second approach is where I think the most likely situation is and basically I get my logic from approach one and combine it with approach two. I can’t pair with Pooky and A50 anymore because that’s two scum not 1. The only 1 scum scenario is VFP, T3, and NM and I can’t do Bingle, Luke, or Gypyx because I individually town read them through approach one. I think the most likely scenario is T3 + Mena (or maybe one of the afks if Mena is town). Third approach is irrelevant in my opinion.

Anyways that’s a quick TLDR on where I stand now. I am honestly confused but I am trying to make it make sense because this game is honestly hard.

Okay here is my fully analysis on that flip. @Pooky I gave you a TLDR in my conclusion just for you. However, I know I am on the chopping block because I did defend someone who indeed flipped scum which I really thought would flip town.

Thoughts on this night kill? I honestly think this is a weird kill. I am trying to think why would they kill Dann, they are either inexperienced or they thought they were paired with someone else. This doesn't bring any info though. Only interactions was with Bingle. I would need to ISO later.

Tl;dr

its in the conclusion.

"This will probably be a TLDR. But since I got something wrong on Day 1, I am now opening my eyes to all of those perspectives. Do not get mad at me or offended if I paired you with etc. Please just reply and quote and explain to me on why and how. I have a specific way of thinking through my logic and that’s probably why.

In conclusion, I now lean town for Luke + Gypyx. I scumread T3 and see a possible pair that could be Pooky + A50 assuming Bingle, VFP, NM, and everyone who was on the wagon is town. And that is only through the first approach where two of the mafia were on the wagon, implying Pooky and A50 was on the wagon. Second approach is where I think the most likely situation is and basically I get my logic from approach one and combine it with approach two. I can’t pair with Pooky and A50 anymore because that’s two scum not 1. The only 1 scum scenario is VFP, T3, and NM (who were on the wagon) and I can’t do Bingle, Luke, or Gypyx because I individually town read them through approach one. I think the most likely scenario is T3 + Mena (or maybe one of the afks if Mena is town). Third approach is irrelevant in my opinion.

Anyways that’s a quick TLDR on where I stand now. I am honestly confused but I am trying to make it make sense because this game is honestly hard."

Still tl;dr

im not gonna keep minimizing my tldr to get it to ur fit standards. you should be able to understand what im saying thru my conclusion. trust me i could have gotten way longer but spending through the weekend actually analyzing this game and approaches isn't about to get blown out of proportion lol

[GrandpaMo]

Wait, are you hard claiming Psychologist with a guilty result?

why are you contradicting your own logic.

[GrandpaMo]

isn't the point of this, not to worry bout the result?

[GrandpaMo]

we should worry bout getting the RBsince RB > MD im assuming and given what Drap has done.. they would usually focus on not bussing their own RB but that can't always be reliable looking at townreads @bingle

[GrandpaMo]

I see

in that case I checked Dannflor and he is very innocent

no u

[GrandpaMo]

FTFM

smh make me the only fake guilty claim ok? thank u

[GrandpaMo]

well actually u might despise it since its guilty on you. dw tho i just pmed mod, and it was a mod error, they said guilty on t3 :3

[GrandpaMo]

well actually u might despise it since its guilty on you. dw tho i just pmed mod, and it was a mod error, they said guilty on t3 :3

So your solution was to make a new guilty claim. Nice.

shh

[GrandpaMo]

so i had a quick reply written but got deleted.

as i said, in all seriousness, i see t3 + mena as the possible narrative for today.

if mena flips town, then pooky is most likely scum. and that sitatuion follows along with my first approach where pooky + a50 could be alligned if both were scumread. post 431 gives a lot of info imo

[GrandpaMo]

A50 was on Drap

Correction: I actually wasn't. I wanted to, but I didn't actually vote because I didn't want the day to end just yet (and knew N_M would hammer as soon as he sees E-1).

Why I didn't want the day to end? I wanted to know WHO would put Drap to E-1.

see.. i counted that being as you wanted to still push drap. did u find drap scummy or no? if so, i would still consider u part of the wagon

[GrandpaMo]

because i got a guilty on you lol

That's very funny, especially considering your day start wall.

that's why i changed it u silly goose. mod error dont forget

[GrandpaMo]

I probably die today

I hate it when people say that at the start of the day AND with only 1 or 2 votes on them. I am not voting you today, so get your lazy ass working and don't you dare resort to ATE.

same, but i let it go since it was nai

[GrandpaMo]

First approach analysis

Response: I usually brush off such cases and don't even care to respond (please write that down in case we meet in a future game and I do just that). But -since you appear to be either really tryharding or a noob- I want to say this: "I won't even go check the posts you refer to that probably link me to Drap. I'll just quote the one I remember saying:

IMHO, Drapion is more likely scum than T3 and/or Luke.

Question: Why would I pick my partner to shade over 1 or 2 townies? (They can't BOTH be Scum because that would be the whole Scum team and would make me 100% Town to begin with).

my solve thru first approach is that ur paired wit pooky or someone else who hopped on the wagon + drap. u even admitted yourself that you never wanted to vote drap but scumread them... why do you think i put u in the first approach. i never said that t3 + luke would be ever scum wit you. especially considerign someone like encryptor is probably the most reliable to bus (referencing thru implication of what bingle said of RB) and you prehaps took advantage. its obvious towncred at this point

[GrandpaMo]

Dannflor kill? Thanks for killing a nullread
At this point I'm ready to assume everyone on Drap is not scum.
I haven't seen GM scumplay so idk.
VOTE: A50

just saw this. u should know how i play as town.

u have literally been in games wit me as u being replaced and prior till now now.

you can decipher me on my townplaystyle since i have flipped town every game i have been wit u so idk why ur acting like u dont know how i play as town.

ig u can say "Oh you are good at acting the same as both and that's a fallacy" well that's just one perspective and all the readily available info

[GrandpaMo]

can we request a prod already on pine? it has been way more than 48 hours.

[GrandpaMo]

I am around ish, but there are things I want to see happen before I push anywhere specific today.

same.

[GrandpaMo]

can we request a prod already on pine? it has been way more than 48 hours.

I imagine they get 48 hours from the start of Day 2, so even through they only have 2 posts so far all game, I don't think that they can technically be prodded yet

lmfao i thought we could still request a prod if maj of playerbase agrees to right?

[GrandpaMo]

Or we could just wait for the replacement and hopefully they obvtown.

T3 trying to not lose his buddy?

That's what I do as eithr alignment and I think you know that.

oh so u can reply to them but not me... okay buddy...

[GrandpaMo]

A50
T3

Gypyx
Pooky

Lukewarm

Bingle
Grandpa
Mena

NM

Pine

I'm finding it hard to scum read players this game.
I think 1 deep wolf

I think Pine purely because I don't see anyone as strong scum.
There's 1 scum in Null to scum and 1 in the towns I think.

I'd be happy with an NM lim here too.

what? so you think there is one scum in

A50
T3

Gypyx
Pooky

Lukewarm

?

and one scum in

Bingle
Grandpa
Mena

NM

Pine

?

can you explain that logic pls

[GrandpaMo]

lol i thought t3 said this... i was gonna say ur weird preposition to change styles is concerning

[GrandpaMo]

A50
T3

Gypyx
Pooky

Lukewarm

Bingle
Grandpa
Mena

NM

Pine

I'm finding it hard to scum read players this game.
I think 1 deep wolf

I think Pine purely because I don't see anyone as strong scum.
There's 1 scum in Null to scum and 1 in the towns I think.

I'd be happy with an NM lim here too.

I drove the drap elim

bad rxn. because everyone was literally saying how it was so optimal for mafia to bus especially considering its not RB or MD.

[GrandpaMo]

i clicked submit by accident, but i was gonna say so claiming to drive that push is NAI for 2 reasons because of what i said and 2nd u actually didnt lol. gypyx did then u just came in and said that drap was scum.

there should be another reason why u are town

[GrandpaMo]

what? so you think there is one scum in

A50
T3
Gypyx
Pooky
Lukewarm?

and one scum in
Bingle
Grandpa
Mena
NM
Pine?

can you explain that logic pls

Deep wolf.
I'm not getting scum pings and that means I'm reading someone wrong pretty badly.
Unless this is you confessing that you're scum and your buddy is a null or less for me?

no im just curious. and honestly i agree. because that allignes with my logic that one is bussing (on day 1) and one is on the sidelines.

[GrandpaMo]

how do u feel about dann? @vfp

[GrandpaMo]

bad rxn. because everyone was literally saying how it was so optimal for mafia to bus especially considering its not RB or MD.

It's not optimal for mafia to bus (and in fact, this setup is fairly antibus in general). If a player were going to bus, it would be more likely for the RB to bus, as they are the scum player who needs to survive the most. Generally with a D1 elimination bussing comes late or from players who jumped on and then never had a chance to move somewhere else. Neither of these apply to N_M in any meaningful way. (N_M hardpushed drap from a point where drap wasn't really under a ton of pressure and never let up.)

didn't you say otherwise? hold on lemme quote.

[GrandpaMo]

We 100% should be aiming to murderface the Roleblocker specifically today, which means that we're aiming specifically for the most protected of the scumlords. The roleblocker, assuming setup understanding, will have been marginally more likely to bus and will be marginally less likely to have been bussed. I intend at some point to look through Drap's townreads as that is where I'll be focusing the majority of my attention.

this i believe

[GrandpaMo]

We 100% should be aiming to murderface the Roleblocker specifically today, which means that we're aiming specifically for the most protected of the scumlords. The roleblocker, assuming setup understanding, will have been marginally more likely to bus and will be marginally less likely to have been bussed. I intend at some point to look through Drap's townreads as that is where I'll be focusing the majority of my attention.

this i believe

[GrandpaMo]

So I was looking over Professor Drap's Wagon, looking for who I think could have been bussing. And I think I can make the strongest case towards it being a Pooky bus

I know pooky voted Drap really early (45), but he did not include an actual scum read on Drap when he cast his vote. His stated reason for voting him was that he was "shamelessly sheeping Mena" which is a real easy vote to walk back down the line. And then... he just did not mention ProfessorDrap at all for a very long time. He even conspicuously left Drap off of his read list entirely (376)

The first time Pooky ever suggests we eliminate Professor Drap is after I make a case against Professor Drap , AND after VFP suggests mason hunting (385) AND after Not_Mafia had showed up to start pushing him (394).

And pooky does not list suggest eliminating Drap until 448, maybe 408 if I'm being generous, but that is still after the momentum started building against Drap

who do you think pooky is alligned wit

[GrandpaMo]

Yeah, okay. A50 is town.

why? where is my towncred for having a guilty on t3 smh! >:(

[GrandpaMo]

Yeah, okay. A50 is town.

why? where is my towncred for having a guilty on t3 smh! >:(

oh actually nvm dont take this post seriously btw^

i see how u would townread him for that

[GrandpaMo]

who do you think pooky is alligned wit

Unclear... If I eliminate N_M, VFP, T3, Gypyx, and Bingle all for the reasons I did not think they were bussing the Professor. And you were my strongest TR of Day1, then that would leave :

• Almost50
  Menalque
  Pine

But I have not actually looked at partner interactions with Pooky yet. That is just from looking at the Drap wagon.

Spoiler:

Fixed broken quote.

now go read my first appraoch analysis ... and tell me if my logic follows yours.

[GrandpaMo]

I mean, maybe, that post was super dense. I just read the tl;dr conclusion, which I thought ended with T3 + someone else?

just only read the first approach which follows the pooky narrative..

first appraoch - two scum is two bussers
second approach - two scum is 1 busser and 1 on the sidelines
third appraoch - two scum is 2 sideliners

my first approach follows the pooky, a50, drap narrative being the most likely scenerio if two bussers occured

[GrandpaMo]

If anything, it looks like we reached the same conclusion using two different paths.

You reached it through looking at how Drap read Pooky, and also by looking at Pooy's reads of other people like Mena. And I reached it by looking at when (and why) Pooky voted Drap, and when Pooky actually started pushing them (and noticed a 400 post gap between the two).

But us reaching the same conclusion different ways, is probably a good sign in regards to the conclusion.

yea i townread u after the drap flipped and somehow my logic that u called weird worked out in my perspective lol. its all good tho, sorry for making misunderstanding me.

[GrandpaMo]

Looking back, it seems someone similar, although different in some places. Like you listed Pooky as a main agressor, when I left them as the busser because they were not being agressive. But overall, you did end with Pooky+A50, which is close to where I ended.


But I did not find your post particularly helpful in solving because you explain how you can picture all of T3, Pookey, Almost50, Pine, Mena, VFP, and Not_Mafia all as mafia in different combinations.

So that post read like "I am going to list every possible combination of scum, and comment on each" instead of saying "here is the person I think it most likely is and why." - Which makes it way harder to parse through.

I don't mean to offend, and if anything, that post helps me TR you harder because it is very clear you are putting a lot of effort into solving. It just makes for a hard read

u think so? i thought i gave discreet solves (nd all possible in my perspective) thru the specific appraoches. like for 1st approach it only consists of ppoky + a50. pooky was deemed aggressive only towards the end etc

[GrandpaMo]

@Luke: You are Town!casing Pooky here, mate. Just check how he played scum in Open 807. Things to note: 1- Strong push on TOWN early on. 2- Late (but not too late) on the bus with a STRONG presence (for milking the Town!cred). 3- Lots of GIFs. Lots and lots of them. (This last one I only noticed NOW )

1- Maybe. Will consider this

2 - I would like to point out that as soon as he decided to push for Drap (so that post 448 on) he was very vocal about it. To the point that Grandpa listed pooky as one of "the three main aggressors."

3 - I will also provide a counter example of Micro 1003, where there are 0 gifs in scum!pooky's entire iso lol

I would also like other people to weigh in as well.

i can't believe people are actually using my gif count as a way to read me that's wild.

here's a game where I played as town and used only gifs:


viewtopic.php?f=56&t=83473

I for one do not want to read you based off of gif count lol

a50 tried to clear you with it, but I'm thinking it is NAI. You used a lot of gifs in his example, but did not use any in mine. You were scum in both, so it is not a scum tell.

yea i agree. it is nai. however, sometimes trust is good but i did point out pooky for acting different. for instance in newbie 2059, pookie u are playing way different then how u usually play. u are erratic compared to that game

[GrandpaMo]

I mean, you voted Drap in post 45 without calling him scum.

Spoiler:

VOTE: PROF DRAPIEN

I AM ONLY SHAMELESSLY SHEEPING MENA BECAUSE HE IS A HANDSOME STUD AND I WANT TO BE CARRIED IN HIS ARMS THIS GAME

The next time you mention Drap, for any reason, at all, is 408in your "hero solve". (Then did not suggest we elim him Day 1 until 448)

What happened in the 400-ish post game between your sheep vote, and you calling for his elim?

• Gypyx votes for Drap
• I made multiple cases against Drap
• VFP suggests he was Mason hunting
• Not_Mafia pushed for drap's elimination
• Bingle listed him as a scum read
• and then, after several other people turned on him, now if he was your partner, it is too late to pull out of the vote, that is when you started pushing on him.

Looks like a decent chance for early distance vote/attempt to pocket Mena turned to "guess I need to bus now" to me.

same thing happens wit t3... but again, no one likes to listen to me anymore so

[GrandpaMo]

erratic is my normal playstyle tho

i only behave well in newbies because I want to be a positive ambassador for the site and not scare any1 off.

WHAT LOL

pls tell me u are lying

[GrandpaMo]

VOTE: T3

hm...

[GrandpaMo]

VOTE: T3

Pooky and Lukewaem seems TvT there.

The Dann kill could simply be from T3 and Pine. Maybe they thought.there was a crumb or that Dann was a Mason.
I don't think Pooky kills Dann though.

possible wifom.

and i thought u read t3 as town

im thinking more of mena + t3. pine seems to be afk unless there is maj in scum pt or sum shit where 1 scum vote is enough to pass

[GrandpaMo]

why would I lie about this lol

i expected a better rxn honestly.

i was looking more of "because i was a pr that game"

[GrandpaMo]

Also, as to the continued assertions that Pine slot is PoE, there's actually a pretty solid reason to scumread him that hasn't come up and I'm surprised it hasn't. There was very little resistance to the drap wagon, which means an absent scumbuddy is significantly more likely than normal.

Damn you got it before me. I was just going to say that. Well something along the lines of... that "if everyone had scumread Drap besides me, then the possibility of one being on the wagon + someone who wasn't (+drap) is way higher." I actually hinted on that; hence why I thought approach two was highly likely then the other ones.

[GrandpaMo]

there is a possibility that maybe BOTH scum weren't on the wagon. and That would include Mena + Pine. And that is the only pair I have.

But right now I think we win this game through this pattern. T3 (scum person on wagon) >>> Mena (scum person NOT on wagon) >>> Pooky (scum person on wagon) >>> Pine (scum person NOT on wagon) >>> and so on.

each flip will probably change that voting pattern however it should follow the general consensus of that ^

[GrandpaMo]

Pre planning lims is a bad idea.

eh did it both times in my last game. turned out to be good. (ik that's a sample bias of some sort)

usually its not really following that same pattern but its just to give an idea to town that if one flips scum; then the other is most likely town hence why i said so on

[GrandpaMo]

He does not. He's electing to not partake in the hypoclaiming innos on the grounds that he thinks he found the babysitter and is announcing you as his main scumread. Or he's attempting to throw mud into the water that was fucked up by people not understanding my directions clearly. Or he's crumbing Babysitter to me. Or he picked up on a signal I sent to him that I'm the real psychologist. Or he's trying to pocket me into thinking he's acknowledging a signal I sent him and he's secretly scum playing on a level I haven't anticipated from him, which is nominally possible but not supported by prior experience.

Basically, 5D chess and not worth a CC if someone else is actually a psychologist, specifically because this is A50 we're talking about.

Because you seem concerned about people CCing his psychologist claim. But also state that you tried to signal to him that you were psychologist (I actually thought I saw something to indicate that in your earlier post, but then assumed I was wrong because you appeared to believe A50.) But... if you really were the psychologist signaling to Almost50, you would not have any worry about a CC happening.

So you were town, but not psychologist, and sent a fake sign to Almost50 to tell him you are psychologist, who in response, openly claimed to be the psychologist, but you don't think that that is actually true either, and are now worried that the real psychologists might out themselves over the 5d chess the two of you are playing?

Let me try to simplify things for you: I am either the Psychologist; and I'm playing some trick that Bingle has picked on and providing cover for it... OR I'm not the Psychologist and STILL playing a trick that Bingle has picked on and helping me drive it home. Whether Bingle is the true Psychologist in the second scenario is irrelevant, because if the first scenario is true then he is actually trying to help me still by pretending to be the Psychologist.

I want to say something else, but it could still confuse you, so I'll add it in a separate post

]

Lol you do the same thing I do as scum in voice mafia

[GrandpaMo]

Now, let me go one step further in demonstrating "my plan":

Proposition 1: I am the Psychologist, and I received a "guilty" on someone. I am choosing to not out it and will re-check the same target tonight. Of still get a guilty that's the BABYSITTER, because -as per Bingle's theoretical best-strategy post on D1, the 2nd Mafia should now do the kill. meaning I should get a clear on them tonight. If I do get a clear I announce them and we 100% caught SCUM.

Proposition 2: I am not the Psychologist. I am just trying to either draw the NK, or I am trying to get the Mafia to think proposition #1 is true and go the route I suggested, leaving one member exposed to a check by the real Psychologist.

It's WIFOM. Do they shoot me? Do they RB me? Or do they ignore me? Am I the Psychologist? Am I actually the Alien trying to bait the NK because I know the Babysitter is protecting me? Or am I the Babysitter playing it risky and hoping Scum think I'm the Psychologist so they leave me alone. OR.. maybe I'm none of the above?? Just maybe..

NOW you are justified to be totally confused

Welcome to A50 101

Yes. Now I will ask you do you think that mafia would have done that? Do you think that mafia would kill Dann just for Pooky to blame it on Luke for possible wifom? Do you think there is a world where the kill was proposed in reads done by Drap? I got a hypothetical guilty on T3 as well.

You are sheeping me. So you are following me; following someone who have gave out guidelines, being it self conscious to me and maybe anyone else who may find it helpful.

This whole conversation is wifom by itself. You are doing this to direct town into misplay. Directing town in an unorganized misrepresentation of your own reads. Looking back at your older games, I seen this happened with you flipping scum. Showing that resembling criteria can match this game as well. or Can it not? We don't know until the game is done and roles are revealed.

You could be talking in scum PT now. Could you? Now that was a self conscious thought of you realizing Encryptor a role that enables day chat for scum is now dead. All because of town hopping on the wagon I seemed to believe that was town. Did you ever come to a realization that Drap was true scum? or scum that never wanted to play to their full extent. Or just plain scum. Scum with you and pooky. Maybe, maybe not.

[GrandpaMo]

Still waiting on Pine & Gypyx to report in, but I kinda think my guilty is actually on the Babysitter, so I will announce a hypothetical guilty on T3 instead.

I am so confused

I don't know how you could get confused reading the quoted post. It clearly says "I have a guilty, but I think it might be a fake guilty on the actual babysitter. So INSTEAD (of declaring my check target) I decided to claim a HYPOTHETICAL guilty on T3". I do NOT have a guilty on T3. I did not target T3. I targeted someone else and I'm not exposing them today. Ask me again tomorrow -if I'm still alive- and I might give you a better explanation.

I was not confused by you. I was confused by Bingle

I thought Bingle's post made sense. What was confusing about it?

[GrandpaMo]

the wilder the shit he spews into the thread the more dashingly town he is

i have no idea if I should nightkill him or not and I don't even have a nightkill

The fact you could be saying this as scum is weird.

I remember once I got townread by the whole town for spewing wild shit as scum. It was a satisfying experience say to the least.

[GrandpaMo]

yea but a50's scum meta is to pretend to be a tree

Hey pooky I have a question for you

[GrandpaMo]

I thought Bingle's post made sense. What was confusing about it?

Because I did not understand the argument on why the real psychologist would not CC Almost 50 if he was fake claiming.

And I am 100% the psychologist, and I was debating counter claiming A50, and wanted to know why I shouldn't. But now I know I shouldn't (for some reason I still don't quite understand), so I am not counter claiming him, and so I won't be claiming psychologist today.

Spoiler:

What I wanted to add is many of you are way to easy to be manipulated by scum. Like, Luke's string of responses make it 100% clear he's not the Psychologist.

Am I doing this right now Almost 50?

I think you are just scum. Outright scum for wanting to counter claim then retracting.

I will take your spot and be claiming psychologist and I have innocent on VFP.

[GrandpaMo]

I thought Bingle's post made sense. What was confusing about it?

Because I did not understand the argument on why the real psychologist would not CC Almost 50 if he was fake claiming.

And I am 100% the psychologist, and I was debating counter claiming A50, and wanted to know why I shouldn't. But now I know I shouldn't (for some reason I still don't quite understand), so I am not counter claiming him, and so I won't be claiming psychologist today.

Spoiler:

What I wanted to add is many of you are way to easy to be manipulated by scum. Like, Luke's string of responses make it 100% clear he's not the Psychologist.

Am I doing this right now Almost 50?

I think you are just scum. Outright scum for wanting to counter claim then retracting.

I will take your spot and be claiming psychologist and I have innocent on VFP.

You all think I am joking but once Mafia kills me tonight because they may think I am psychologist but it turns out I flip babysitter and my partner Luke dies as well. And that whole interaction on day one was just to throw mafia off. Especially considering right now where I called Luke scum and luke reacted with facepalming emoticons. Scum should either now have the consensus to either believe that or disbelieve that we may be paired here as Aliens or maybe the babysitter.

[GrandpaMo]

Prod received, but I’m afraid I’m basically just prodging again

As mentioned, I’ll have more time after tomorrow once my move is complete

pine said the same thing but dipped

hope ur not like my dad

[GrandpaMo]

i'll just sheep bingle probly.

I am more comfortable sheeping Almost50 then Bingle, can we all sheep Almost50?

interesting priority, why exactly?

What's interesting in your mindset?

[GrandpaMo]

Also is there a possibility that there could be some hidden communication mafia may use since daychat is now disabled? Or is that too risky for scum to play out and they would just rather wait until night to discuss?

[GrandpaMo]

Because in my opinion, I see that being a possibility, and so that's why I have been very disciplined with myself in every post.

For example, A50 listed their WIFOM playstyle; but like I said that whole thing could have been a distraction to set town up and communicate to their partner to make the babysitter obvious or well at least try to.

That would be some hard 200 IQ play and like Bingle said, A50 is very capable to do that.

[GrandpaMo]

Most oof VFP's posts have literaly just been one liners that don't advance the game at all.

I mean VFP's mason hunting accusation led to a lot of discussion about Drap. Do you think this exchange would come from scum partners?

I changed my mind on Drapion.
VOTE: ProfessorDrapion

What made you change your mind on me?

Scum want to find the masons here and I think you're trying to do exactly that.

I personally had been pushing on Drap, and then shifted my attention away from him and started pushing you(375 - case against you, 383 - vote against you). But then, VFP made 385 , and it pulled me back to Drap (I tunneled on this accusation for the rest of the day lol).

Imo, if Drap had flipped town, then I could see VFP as scum, trying to keep discussion on Drap, potentially to stop the discussion me and Grandpa were starting up oven you being scum.

But since Drap flipped scum, I am feeling pretty good about VFP being town.

I was so confused on why you scumread VFP before drap flipping but then I realized you haven't played with VFP. I realized that T3's hypocritiness of how T3 literally calls out VFP for having one liners when T3 themselves have one liners and no one has even payed attention to anything T3 really said besides me-- T3 did not advance the games as much as VFP so to say the least.

[GrandpaMo]

Pine is a terrible vote. Pooky voting Pine here is nai but VFP is a strong sr.

I personally hard disagree. It's true I don't have much on Pine to judge by, by I hard TR VPN.

@Luke: I appreciate your faith in me, but the problem is I don't have reads on Pine/Gypyx (I don't have enough content from either) and many of my other reads are not solid enough (leans rather than explicit TRs/SRs). But we still have time in the day so I won't rush things much

But you hard townread VFP? Unless you are talking about others than that as well.

[GrandpaMo]

gobs part

Gonna* post*

This'll be the longest post I make all game I swear

This isn't even a lot.

Almost50 - played one cursed game with them. No bias. The "this is literally scum" thing that drapion hopped on makes me think town. Pooky agrees.

Bingle - played a couple times, like 'em. Prolly biased against voting them if they seem like they're being smart. Which they are. Calling spooks low priority feels right.

Dannflor - town

Why do you townread Dann?

GrandpaMo - never seen. Aggressively skims Bingle which seems like a scum move. Also they're just hard to follow, logically. Not partners with Luke.

Did you read that full post? You linked an analytical post I did ISOing and giving thoughts on everyone...

Gypyx - recognize the name, no bias. Seems abrasive? Hard to sort so far. Leaning town as of page 6 because draping push seems right. Also this implies to me that either they're not reading Bingle mech stuff or one of us is misunderstanding it. Could be me I guess.

Lukewarm - never seen. Don't live entering late on a draping vote, could be convinced this was a bus. I couldn't tell they were a newbie (or newbie-ish) until they said it. Not alignment indicative, just a compliment. Draps cross vote and the subsequent vote from Mena has me questioning my scum lean on p11. Not partners with gramps.

Not_Mafia (replaces ManWithNoName) - I don't anticipate having many thoughts here

Menalque - played a couple times, probably more willing to vote them than average. Not sure why. Questioning that bias has me wondering why they're scumread early. I disagree that the PL is scummy thus far. The readslist on p9 is exactly wrong and hopefully upside down now that the flips have happened.

Pine - is me

PookyTheMagicalBear - capable of being devious, will watch. Seems low impact so far. Agree with the a50 locktown

ProfessorDrapion - scum.

T3 - never seen. Such a non entity through p7 they don't even have an avatar. Thinks grandpa is TOWN on p10 and I'm all ???? about it. Agree with the lukewarm vote on p11.

VFP - never seen. Not super substantive as of p7 but Drap does defend them in a shifty way so maybe town maybe? They're probably not lukewarm partner if they are scum

Eod:

NM hammering is NAI

Bingle E-2 is similarly boring

Gramps trying to deflect to the final bell almost feels 2s2bs but I think they're scum here

Deflect? That isn't a "deflection" question in terms of being allignment indicitaive. I thought it was more of a "joke
or a meme. I even replied to the comment in bold...Can you elaborate on this? I am confused on what you are referring to.

Like this:

btw the fact that drap is dead but still hasnt shown up to give dying reads or w/e means this slot probly flips red

eh thats nai.

You always crop up with the weirdest comments apropos of nothing

i think im gaming this game actually unlike u :p

in all seriousness, it is tho.. they could be afk etc. just nai regardless of any allignment

As a defense for scum drap but town Dann getting a "why you bounce after that post" In this SAME GAME feels so ass backwards I can't unsee it

Mena response is just wrong, will keep an eye d2

VFP gets scum points for lolling their way through

Have you read their past games? I played with them enough to know that this how they act as either alignment. I thought they were scum too when they would act like this. They give more contribution to mid game- I am hoping you didn't read that yet when you wrote that post. Therefore, FWIW, it's more NAI.

Grandpa Mo or Menlaque today

If we are choosing between these two, I am leaning towards Mena. - I have Grandpa as a town read

VOTE: Mena

This is awfully go with the flow. Do you have a solve at this point or?

What does this question mean? Look at what NM says... "GrandpaMo or Menlaque"

This results in the Either orr Fallacy where Lukewarm, in response, made a choice choosing either me or Mena.

This is when we all were theorizing it could be Mena. So again to restate my question, What does this question mean in regards of what you are trying to get out of?

Seems abrasive

hey what does that mean? like, according to the dictionnary you're calling me a surface, which is probably not what you meant according to my advanced deductive skills

pedit: um, why? unless you got like a case on johnny he should not be the vote today

Didn't you want to vote Pine out?

See to me it looked like maybe drap was acting on information he knew and we didn't, if you catch my meaning

No shit. They flipped scum, of course they will have TMI.

Formal request that all of us not named lendunistus stop using colored text

No. I am

the only one doing so

,

and will gladly continue

to do so to show

differences between quotes.

[GrandpaMo]

All caught up. Readslist.

Would rather die myself

Almost50
Gypyx

Not today

Not_Mafia (replaces ManWithNoName)
Menalque

The rest, from least to most willing

Bingle
PookyTheMagicalBear
T3
Lukewarm
VFP
GrandpaMo

VOTE: Granddad

This could be town just on the fact that you aren't jumping on any wagon.

However, this could be because we are pressured on you and you didn't have anyone to hop on to other than Mena and so maybe you scum read me to show that you weren't jumping on the Mena wagon hence why you scumread them at first but said you would rather vote them day 2 due to giving them a day to give their reads.

I guess the other wagon could be T3. But if you did just instantly hop on the T3 wagon, then I along others would scumread you just for coming in to the day with a vote on T3. So you played it safe by voting me, someone who you know is town.

This is all theory for now though. I am not pushing this narrative yet. I just want to hear your response to my response above and reaction to this.

[GrandpaMo]

This isn't even a lot.

We should all strive to be more succinct

Well yes while this is true. It is sometimes better to express all your thoughts and feelings towards certain things / players from a townperson because sometimes that information may be valuable to yourself, to town, and to power role. You might have logic that could be determinent of the players or have false logic that even scum can get tricked upon (wifom). Any type of information is good. Yes, I do agree with quality over quanity. But sometimes quality reads need logic and reasoning and that coincides with more info (quantity)

Why do you townread Dann?

Is this a serious question

Yes. Just answer it. Why did you think at that time Dann was town? They were the only one with just "town" and no reasoning hence why I asked.

Did you read that full post? You linked an analytical post I did ISOing and giving thoughts on everyone...

I did. I just explained this with A50

Problem is... you made that post and try to portray it in a misleading wae like I was just "aggressively skimming Bingle" in which could be a scum thing in your words. However, that isn't wasn't I was doing. I made an analytical post referring to everyone, not just Bingle. And I called you out on that. And you are still talking to A50 like I was just talking about Bingle. This is NOT true. Please reread what you linked and look at every single comment I made... I made comments to A50, Luke, BIngle, and others if I recall correctly. I am giving you the benefit of the doubt, that you probably just slightly skimmed through the content and maybe missed those sections. So I advise you to reread unless you are blatantly lying in which I hope you are not.

Deflect? That isn't a "deflection" question in terms of being allignment indicitaive. I thought it was more of a "joke
or a meme. I even replied to the comment in bold...Can you elaborate on this? I am confused on what you are referring to.

The whole "This is town" bs quoting drap right around the flip

Again, what the fuck are you talking about. When you said this in post 1013... you quoted post 666. In post 1013, you come out and use that example. Now you are bringing new information that wasn't brought up in your initial read... And also considering this... How is this again deflection? Please answer my question. If you are talking about me saying "This is town" then yes, I genuinely thought that. I gave my whole analytical defense on to why Drap was scum and why T3 should have been the vote in post 540. So please, when you reply to this. Quote that exact interaction(s) where I was "deflecting" because I don't see a deflection anywhere and feel free to elaborate and explain to me HOW. Because everything you have said... gives no clue of deflection. And I am reading back in the EoD to see if you were talking about something else but I couldn't catch anything that I was doing that might have been considered "deflecting"

What does this question mean? Look at what NM says... "GrandpaMo or Menlaque"

This results in the Either orr Fallacy where Lukewarm, in response, made a choice choosing either me or Mena.

This is when we all were theorizing it could be Mena. So again to restate my question, What does this question mean in regards of what you are trying to get out of?

I mean I think it's scummy to lay back and take that false choice instead of thinking and pushing for yourself

I agree in general. However, in this specific context lukewarm was already scumreading Mena and townreading me and gave other reads some time back. Given the Either Or Fallacy which stands to be true, then you have NM giving two choices of possible elims. Not reads. Elims. It would have been scummier if it were on the subject of reads but we were all talking about voting options. NM gave me (the person that Lukewarm was already townreading) and Mena (the person who lukewarm was already scumreading). Do you understand what I am trying to say? And how your reasoning is weak here?

I see what you're saying, Luke, I've just played with enough people to know newbies can be wild if they want. Especially if the scum RB told them to cause a distraction.

Well first, I am not a complete noob. Well to me I want to say that, because this would be my 4th or 3rd game on the site? Okay I guess I am a noob. But the point is, that I have a town playstyle where I give my logic and reasonings stick with them and hope I am right. Those reads do change from time to time and my emotional intelligence gets combatted if I am scum read with bad reasoning or get confused as you can see all the times I flipped town in my games. So far, I haven't had a scum game yet which is unfortunate :/ And I wish to have one soon with the upcoming game. To avoid any possible confirmation bias you may have Johnny, I suggest you Iso'ing my previous games and looking at how I play. It should give you an idea on what I can do / what I can't do as town. So you would know at least (since you haven't played with me) to know what you are judging based off.

PS: You said this quote in bold. What distraction would there be if I were scum?... I don't think I caused any distraction as town? Everyone was very aligned and specifically ignoring my T3 vote to BW Drap. So again, what distraction are you talking about here?