TM 2021: A normal roguelike

[xRECKONERx]

XOF SURVIVOR IS OVER THAT'S WHY I KNEW WHY YOU WERE BEING AFK SO NO MORE EXCUSES

[xRECKONERx]

It ain't me. Idk how much I can comment on the other games but uh let's just say my team is basically checked out for the most part, and I've been checked out of theirs. It was much easier to get insights earlier on than it is now. If you have specific insights you want from them I can ask but I don't think that's the point of DVs post.

[xRECKONERx]

I actually still find Ydrasses pointing out of Ari's TMI really compelling. I also have been trying to reason out the NKs and haven't found much, because people I'm suspicious of have been dying every night, which is fine by me to an extent, but I have an evolving theory on the NKs that I need to post in full once I'm not fighting with my phone keyboard

[xRECKONERx]

@DV I am confused by your point though. My team has naturally lost interest over time, which is just how things go. Why is it alignment indicative that they were active D1 but got less active as the game goes on? Like what's the scum motivation behind them STOPPING? The fact my team fell off seems like it would be viewed as being more town indicative since they were actually engaged at the start of TM and then stopped paying attention organically. If I were scum I could've kept faking it very easily

[xRECKONERx]

EBWOP since UT just confirmed I could say this, like, you can mark a pretty obvious timeline of their activity in Discord from being engaged to whoops both Cheetory and Shea died and sorta took a vacation

[xRECKONERx]

@DV I am confused by your point though. My team has naturally lost interest over time, which is just how things go. Why is it alignment indicative that they were active D1 but got less active as the game goes on? Like what's the scum motivation behind them STOPPING? The fact my team fell off seems like it would be viewed as being more town indicative since they were actually engaged at the start of TM and then stopped paying attention organically. If I were scum I could've kept faking it very easily

I agree that team involvement is probably in general more likely to occur earlier (less game to read, more excitement about the TM concept) than later.
My main thought from it was that it made the day 1 stuff seem more likely faked/exaggerated. Your posting made it seem as if your team was extremely invested. I think as scum it makes a lot of sense to pretend that one’s team is involved and giving reads (and for a team to even help out by giving fake reads) and the sheer contrast between day 1 and now made me think that you were overstating your team’s involvement all along.

I mean, they were extremely invested, now they're not. *shrug* I was similarly more invested in their games and now am not. I can't prove to you that the natural progression of their involvement with the game is as I've stated it is, so this is a weird thing to hang your hat on

[xRECKONERx]

V/LA

I'm so sorry, idk how soon I'll be back in this. But the moment i can be, I promise.

<3 Take your time.

[xRECKONERx]

DV, the end result of this is you going "It's scummy, I think you faked your team's contributions" and me going "...no I didn't they just lost interest" and that's it. There's no further conversation to be had. That's why it's really weird.

[xRECKONERx]

I'm wondering if I should bother finishing my readthrough or if I should just focus potential pairings in iso and try to eliminate some possibilities.

orrrr I just go with my gut and say we elim Ari/Ydrasse/DV any order and win the game?

I mean obviously this is my plan lmao
You're clear, xof's clear, I know I'm town
That literally just leaves that path to victory

The biggest thing that has cooled me on Ari is that his comments about me being set up as the dumbass town that votes him in LXLO have been lingering on the edge of my mind ever since he said it
If Ari is town what that would imply is that I've been either lightly encouraged by scum to keep up my read on Ari OR scum have specifically left the me vs Ari battle for later and have steered wagons in other directions
I should probably reread the game with that in mind and try to find evidence but honestly the fact we have two eliminations left and have a pool of three with two scum in it is good enough for me to just kinda cruise control it

[xRECKONERx]

I actually still find Ydrasses pointing out of Ari's TMI really compelling. I also have been trying to reason out the NKs and haven't found much, because people I'm suspicious of have been dying every night, which is fine by me to an extent, but I have an evolving theory on the NKs that I need to post in full once I'm not fighting with my phone keyboard

Okay yeah so about this, it's not as interesting as I thought. I thought maybe scum were killing people to remove resistance to getting preferred mislims because I saw Ari/DV coming after Ydrasse

the day after

Hectic, Ydrasse's biggest defender, got offed

But petapan wasn't a Sirius defender, and Datisi wasn't a Creature-defender (if anything Datisi was in support of a Creature wagon) so that theory doesn't really hold water

[xRECKONERx]

I mean I guess I could be convinced? I just think Adorable has played in such a way that wouldn't make sense having a buddy to say things like, hey, don't say that, or hey, maybe reply in this other way.

I don't like how much of this game is "too scummy to be scum".

Honestly Adorable just kind of evaporated from me as a scum candidate and dropped off my radar at some point. Huh.

[xRECKONERx]

@Aristophanes To answer your question DV wondered if the team is Ydrasse/Reckoner and now that I think on it more, Reckoner says he didn't like Ydrasse fluffing and even though he didn't like her fluff and when she got some votes on her on day 2 Reckoner still kept his vote on you. DV has been my town read since day 1 and after the mass claim I see that the vt claims are the poe to the point when I don't even know who the scum are within the vt claims because I have been town reading them from earlier which means I have been wrongly town reading scum who are somewhere hidden in the vt claims.

I'm not able to understand on what you are saying on the Adorable/Ydrasse anti-associatives and I'm guessing you meant about me saying that the team makes no sense and you wanted to know if there is another reason why that team makes no sense. I pretty much said earlier why the team makes no sense and there is nothing more to it. Scum should never defend their scum buddy because when one of them flips scum then that will make the other scum look bad and will get outed the next day.

I mean I publicly stated if I couldn't get Ari I was going to go with Ydrasse and warned people if she ever hit L-1 I was going to hammer?

Anyway, unless I'm wrong about Adorable, this seems pretty simple to just run down the list and nail two scum. I don't care who we start with.

VOTE: Ydrasse

Let's get the ball moving. Bulge. xof. You guys are town and need to be town leaders here so this game doesn't stagnate in its own musty soup for too long.

[xRECKONERx]

reck what are your current thoughts on the whole "yeet ari before xylo" thing from the other day?

i mean basically what i said a few posts ago

The biggest thing that has cooled me on Ari is that his comments about me being set up as the dumbass town that votes him in LXLO have been lingering on the edge of my mind ever since he said it
If Ari is town what that would imply is that I've been either lightly encouraged by scum to keep up my read on Ari OR scum have specifically left the me vs Ari battle for later and have steered wagons in other directions
I should probably reread the game with that in mind and try to find evidence but honestly the fact we have two eliminations left and have a pool of three with two scum in it is good enough for me to just kinda cruise control it

[xRECKONERx]

ari, I'd like to hear why you think Ari/Ydrasse is an impossible team fmpov? is it just the events of this day phase?

are you asking ari why he's not scum with ydrasse or is this a typo

[xRECKONERx]

After the mass claim this has made me reevaluate. I have been suspicious of Ari today and DV also made some good points saying he was wondering if it is Ydrasse/Reckoner and I never even thought about this. I don't like how Ari says it's me/Ydrasse because that team makes no sense. It's like as if Ari is saying scum Ydrasse defended scum Adorable on day 1 and continues to defend her on day 1, scum Ydrasse votes scum beeboy and refuses to defend scum beeboy.

I'm also going to quote this too which also makes the beeboy/Ydrasse/Adorable team being weird and makes no sense because Ydrasse defended me on day 1 and did not defend beeboy.

Why are you so focused on the Ydrasse/beeboy pairing?

[xRECKONERx]

I know that there's like a 90% chance just yeeting down the list of Ari/Ydrasse/DV just wins the game for us but there's a 10% of my brain that's being paranoid as fuck and feeling like I'm giving the game away somehow

[xRECKONERx]

ugh i hate this

alright today after work. sorry I've all but forgotten about this all week. I think at this point im almost definitely not going to finish reading, but I need to figure out where I want to go so this game stops being a big foggy mess to think about.

reck what are your current thoughts on the whole "yeet ari before xylo" thing from the other day?

ari, I'd like to hear why you think Ari/Ydrasse is an impossible team fmpov? is it just the events of this day phase?

Also like if the claims are true then you're just dead tonight right? Which leaves town without an active town leader

Fucking hell I am so scared this is going to go off the rails

[xRECKONERx]

So our last scum is somewhere in the pool of Ydrasse, Adorable, and Ari. I worry about any of those being our choice, BUT it *has* to be, right? And I do think Ydrasse is the one which clears up the others. If she is town, I think it sorts out so much more of the game. But, I don't wanna vote until Bulge has been around a little more to chat.

Wait, last scum? Singular?

[xRECKONERx]

Okay yeah you had me frantically looking for a scum flip I forgot about and then realizing we don't have an updated OP and getting mad

[xRECKONERx]

Haha, no worries. Nah, sorry, I did the thing I do with words where I didn't include enough context so it sounded like I meant something else.

But anyways, like... the three of Adorable/Ydrasse/Ari need sorted. At least for me. They're all very big question marks that once solved resolve a lot of the other question marks for me and in context of a lot of the other votes and flips we've had I think makes us understand this game and win it.

If you swap DV for Adorable that's basically where I'm at too

[xRECKONERx]

does ceph have a non-meta read on DV

[xRECKONERx]

Okay yeah you had me frantically looking for a scum flip I forgot about and then realizing we don't have an updated OP and getting mad

Um okay

Very cool contribution to the thread DV

[xRECKONERx]

Okay, well you're wrong, and so far the reasons you've given for scumreading me are:

"I don't believe your team was ever invested in this game"

and

"I don't believe that you were confused by xof implying only one scum remaining"

Both of which are categorically untrue, but I have no way to show you that because any "proof" is going to be heresay, which makes it a super convenient and neat way to try to throw shit my direction while being immune to scrutiny for it

But it's okay because we're going to yeet from a very specific pool, and we'll win the game regardless. So if you're town, you're wrong but it won't matter. And if you're scum, I understand why you have to throw shade outside of the {you/Ydrasse/Ari} pool to set up for some kind of out down the line, and I respect the hustle

[xRECKONERx]

Both of which are categorically untrue, but I have no way to show you that because any "proof" is going to be heresay, which makes it a super convenient and neat way to try to throw shit my direction while being immune to scrutiny for it

How often do reasons for suspecting people actually have a way to be proven wrong? I’m baffled by your issue with that aspect

You're claiming you want to know if you're wrong. How do you expect anyone to engage you on that front? Here I'll play it out for you:

You: "I believe these things about Reck"
Others: "I don't beleive those things about Reck"

End scene

What actual dialogue are you expecting to come of it

[xRECKONERx]

why not

[xRECKONERx]

hmmm good question, I think a couple townie sounding posts must have gotten to me earlier this evening, or my train of thought slipped the tracks at some point, because looking back now on the last 8 pages I read before posting earlier, I don't know what to tell you lol. DV's energy around Ari this phase reads to me like town with a confident townread, but I can't find whatever it is that prompted me to remove him from my PoE. I don't think he's scum with Ari, though, with the way they ran the massclaim. I didn't make it clear before but I'm down for an Ydrasse elim, and I haven't done any recent ISOdives or anything but from the events of toDay and what I can remember of earlier in the game, DV/Ydrasse doesn't sound all that improbable.

I feel you

I think we just yeet Ydrasse and then run down the list. Ydrasse's flip should clear something up either way though I don't really care what she flips I'm going to support a lim on Ari/DV tomorrow and it'll take a lot to sway me from that

[xRECKONERx]

Well ok then

[xRECKONERx]

Game 2 ez

[xRECKONERx]

- And then Reck just.... votes Ydrasse... because the game seems simple... despite having expressed suspicion of Ari and me. Oh BY THE WAY, what is Reck's read of Adorable anyway. Was it really confident enough for him to willingly just elim Ydrasse because whatevs? Despite seemingly not really thinking her to be scum. Oh here's a quote

yes, yeeting the three of you wins us the game either way IMO, bulge agreed, so the plan was to just run it down all three of you and call it a game

ofc xof feels you're town and Adorable might not be, I definitely disagree

[xRECKONERx]

I did vote Ydrasse D1 which DV left out of his catch up

DV's case is full of giant gaping holes and flat-out false statements or at least logically inconsistent ones but I really don't think it matters because the game seems fairly won. he's either wrong town or scum that we're going to eliminate anyway so I don't care.

Sorta just waiting on xof to chime in about preferred yeet today tbh. If xof would like me to respond to DV's posts I will otherwise I don't see much of a reason to drag the day down in nonsense. Or drag this day on longer than it has to be.

My preferred vote for today would be Aristophanes because on the off chance he is town I'd rather make that mistake now and not in LYLO for obvious reasons. And if Aristophanes is scum then yay game over and we can all check out. Between Ari/DV, I don't care too much. xof you're going to have to talk to me about why Adorable is in your PoE and not DV though if you want an Adorable lim

[xRECKONERx]

Oh I misread that, I thought DV said "He thought Ydrasse wasn't scummy enough to vote for her" mb

My assumption, Ari, is that the plan wouldn't be followed thru tomorrow bc xof and I seemingly disagree on Adorable vs DV

[xRECKONERx]

oh right xof would die, mmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm.

I mean even in that situation I have no idea what Adorable thinks re: DV, basically the people who agreed to "the plan" would be gone (me n bulge mostly with a splash of xof for good measure)

Ari if you ARE town then my biggest fear is being set up to mislim you in endgame and throw the game away like, that's been eating away at me since you said it. My team is completely checked out of the game now, nobody's posted in our Discord in days and it has been like 10 days since anyone said anything about my game, and given certain things going on rn I don't really have the mental energy to reread anything atm.

weirdly enough trying to lim Ari today leaves me more vulnerable to being the final mislim actually tomorrow if Ari is town i think

[xRECKONERx]

per xof's request:

Okay I quite strongly believe that Reck is scum.

Approach to Ydrasse-slot:

- Reck consistently throughout the game throws shade at Ydrasse's slot but hardly ever does he actually

do anything

with it.
- He thought Ydrasse was scummy enough to vote for her Day 1. 1187, 1426, 2431 are all posts expressing feels about Ydrasse being scum. BUT in this time there is no actual consideration that Ydrasse may be worth eliminating. He doesn't do anything with this until voting her in the previous day phase when the tide was obviously turning against her. Bringing me too....

I'm not sure if it's unique to me feeling that way, but uh, every time I spoke up and said Ydrasse was pinging me funny there was an army of people it felt like shouting about how town she was for her blatant AtE. I tried to call attention to it, nobody bit on it. I outright warned people if Ydrasse got to L-1 I was snap hammering. Granted it wasn't really due to a scumread, it was due to me finding her fucking annoying as fuck to play with, and I stand by that. It's also because I constantly felt like Ari was the best elimination while I was feeling Ydrasse was our second best shot, I told people I would hammer and be down for an Ydrasse wagon if I couldn't get Ari, but it was hard as fuck to get anyone to stay focused anyway, I wasn't going to willingly kill momentum on my top suspect to go after Ydrasse, my second suspect.

Reck's Day 4 play makes no sense as town:

- Notable that in 2706 Reck supports Ydrasse's bad case on Ari. This is despite having thought Ydrasse suspicious for a large portion of the game, and not taking into account the problematic parts of Ydrasse's posting that I brought up in 2701.

I thought Ydrasse caught Ari scum slipping. I'm honestly still not convinced she didn't. It was such a very specific call out to point out someone would have too much knowledge and Ari's fuck up about Ydrasse absolutely read like someone who forgot they had more information than they should. It's entirely possible that Ydrasse was trying to bet the game on a bus on Ari here or something. Like thinking out loud here, I don't see why this couldn't have been a bus. Scum would have to know that Ari would be dead at some point as long as I'm in the game, and they know about the existing PRs, so they know that they can't waste a kill on me to get me off Ari's case. The only doubts you brought up in 2701 were that Ydrasse was "too sure". Ok great, why is that supposed to be a "problematic" part of it? I read it as someone feeling like they caught someone. Why is being sure of her read a reason to doubt her??

- And then Reck just.... votes Ydrasse... because the game seems simple... despite having expressed suspicion of Ari and me. Oh BY THE WAY, what is Reck's read of Adorable anyway. Was it really confident enough for him to willingly just elim Ydrasse because whatevs? Despite seemingly not really thinking her to be scum. Oh here's a quote

Honestly Adorable just kind of evaporated from me as a scum candidate and dropped off my radar at some point. Huh.

Hmmmmm

I voted Ydrasse bc the game seemed open and shut. I wrote Adorable off as scum a long time ago, for whatever reason. I can probably look back and find posts, but the odds of Adorable-scum seemed super low from about D2ish onwards. It's just play that is so bizarre I have a hard time seeing anything calculated behind it, and writing Adorable off was easier, esp with dead town having solid townreads on Adorable based on play. I still think the game is in the pool of you/Ari as the last buddy. Once I had that pool narrowed down and Bulge agreed it literally does not matter to me who goes when, the game is guaranteed over.

- And how does Reck go from strongly townreading me early in the game and fighting against my wagons to thinking I'm scum Day 4. It makes the early townread on me feel like posturing, especially with the completely bizarre line of posts that Reck uses to try and convince people that he thinks my posting is weird. Boo-hoo, he can't prove that my reasons for suspecting him are wrong? When can you ever disprove someone's reasons for suspecting you??? (Reck should know this) Why was this a thing?? How has it contributed to a change in read of me?

Well, you fell into the PoE. And we were mind melding a lot more early on in the game, which was the primary reason I was town reading you, along with your immediate unvote of RCE after the bad claim. I sort of filed you away and forgot and it wasn't until Hectic started listing "strong townreads" and I was sus of Hectic that I started to evaluate. I thought Hectic's reasons for townreading you were extremely flimsy, which subconsciously moved you outta the "will not touch bucket" for me. I thought your insistence on massclaiming looked really weird. You'll also note that I dropped a full catchup and reread of RCE in 2596, wherein I said if I'm pegging anyone for turbobussing RCE, it's you. This didn't come from "out of nowhere", my progression on you is there. Then you came out of the woodwork with the flimsy shitslinging at me because my team wasn't engaged which consciously moved you fully into the PoE for me. The rest of the claims we got also helped narrow it down as it confirmed Bulge's claim to me, which was something that was floating in my brain as a possible fake out the whole time.

Lastly, in what world does town-Reck ever think this:

hmmm good question, I think a couple townie sounding posts must have gotten to me earlier this evening, or my train of thought slipped the tracks at some point, because looking back now on the last 8 pages I read before posting earlier, I don't know what to tell you lol. DV's energy around Ari this phase reads to me like town with a confident townread, but I can't find whatever it is that prompted me to remove him from my PoE. I don't think he's scum with Ari, though, with the way they ran the massclaim. I didn't make it clear before but I'm down for an Ydrasse elim, and I haven't done any recent ISOdives or anything but from the events of toDay and what I can remember of earlier in the game, DV/Ydrasse doesn't sound all that improbable.

I feel you

I think we just yeet Ydrasse and then run down the list. Ydrasse's flip should clear something up either way though I don't really care what she flips I'm going to support a lim on Ari/DV tomorrow and it'll take a lot to sway me from that

My slot and Ari's slot had so much interaction with Ydrasse that it couldn't possibly not matter what Ydrasse were to end up flipping. Obviously Ydrasse's alignment was going to have some impact.

--

I think I am alone in thinking that reck is scum, but that's okay. I will keep posting about it until he is eliminated, or people say something convincing that doesn't amount to "reck feels town". (though I'll probably keep pushing Reck anyway because he's scum)

I mean, I didn't care what Ydrasse flipped, and I still don't? My point wasn't "well there's literally nothing to glean from an Ydrasse flip". My point was "whatever Ydrasse flips might add clear something up but it won't change my PoE pool at the end of the day". Like the PoE was you/Ari/Ydrasse, those were my three lims, the point of the PoE is that I believe there are two scum in that group of three. Why did you expect that to change if I am proven RIGHT on 1 scum?

[xRECKONERx]

I can probably be around most nights just lmk when we all wanna pow wow

[xRECKONERx]

If the two of us live through today for whatever reason, and the lim is on town, I need you no not quickvote me tomorrow.

God fucking dammit

Yes, I can promise that if we mislim today I won't quickvote ANYONE tomorrow not just you

[xRECKONERx]

lol when I said "most nights" I was explicitly excluding thurs in my head cuz that's my weekly date night with the hubband

[xRECKONERx]

[xRECKONERx]

DV's case is full of giant gaping holes and flat-out false statements or at least logically inconsistent ones

This statement is absolutely not justified by Reck's big response post.

Seems like hyperbole in order to have my suspicion be dismissed.

To be fair, this was also when I misread "didn't vote" instead of "vote" for Ydrasse.

But...

The gaping holes were the leap in logic required for me to think Ydrasse's flip would change my Poe

and the fact you were painting my progression on you as nonexistent (WOW HOW DOES RECK GO FROM TOWNREADING ME TO SCUMREADING ME) when the progression and thoughts are there

those are gaps, falsehoods, or logical inconsistencies. It's not hyperbole to point those out

But boy do I really just not give a fuck anymore lol

[xRECKONERx]

Like full disclosure if DV is gonna bet the game on me being scum I don't have a ton of energy to fight against it, so, at that point, it's p much up to what you wanna do xof. if DV isn't the scum in Ari/DV then he's town that's throwing the game away.

i just don't care

i dont. care.

My care meters have been depleted.

my team all sorta collectively gave up when it became obvious we have no chance at winning TM anymore (thanks, Flavor Leaf, for being a self-congratulatory performative jackass tbh), and I just

Cannot find the fucks to give!

I'm still very confident in my PoE, I plan to stick to that to try to win this game so I at least go out on a high note. but yeah.

I'm just setting expectations for my contribution levels moving forward

[xRECKONERx]

i've been prodded

[xRECKONERx]

good talk everyone

[xRECKONERx]

VOTE: Aristophanes

ok

[xRECKONERx]

I also think Ari brought up a good point about how him believing Ydrasse had already claimed VT would be strange from a scumbuddy with Ydrasse unless it was a totally coordinated thing between Ari and Ydrasse, which is the sort of thing that I believe happens a lot less often than town will be paranoid that it does.

I think Reck being scum makes the game make a whole lot of sense, because if Reck

were

town, then whoever was scum in the game in the previous day phase would have easily been able to get the elim onto somebody other than Ydrasse imo.

Reck suspected me, so why didn't Ari end up folding to vote for me? (Especially given that I become a much less likely mis-elim after the Ydrasse scumflip) I think Bulge would have voted for me, push come to shove, and then you just need one more vote.

Obviously Reck-scum had much less option to try and elim me because he was the only one really saying it with any kind of confidence, and if Ari, Adorable, Xof are all town who thought I was town, it becomes a lot more difficult to get a vote onto me.

I suspect that a Ydrasse elim only happened the previous day

because

Reck was scum.

so because we yeeted scum i'm scum for making it happen

astounding logic

if I were scum I could've just lead the wagon on Ari instead, the only reason I chose Ydrasse was bc it didn't matter to me who went in what order

[xRECKONERx]

I could kinda care less if you think I'm town or not at this point? because i am. i was the first vote on Ydrasse when the game was stuck in limbo with nobody knowing where to go first. if i were scum I 100% could've pushed it onto Ari yesterday and gotten Bulge/xof/Adorable on board with it and kept Ydrasse alive, bringing two scum into LYLO today and going for the win

i could go through the list explaining why I'm town but it's pointless, my thought is it's just Ari and you're going to have egg on your face and then can just accept that I was right all game instead

[xRECKONERx]

viewtopic.php?p=12648494#p12648494

[xRECKONERx]

Because Reck knew we had PoE'd his as Mason and was willing to see us all kept in the dark? Because 2 conftown was obviously a potentially devastating blow to the scumgame here? It just makes sense! And Ydrasse's reaction was so over the top out of necessity, but look at how Reck interacts with her points there!

The weakness of this argument is that scum already knew all the power roles? Like what?

In what way is this my strategy as scum? Try to pretend to be the last mason? When all it takes is a counterclaim to guarantee my death?
I was against massclaim because outing the last mason just tells scum exactly who to kill since they already have full setup knowledge, period

It was still the right call

[xRECKONERx]

Because if you’re talking about the previous day phase, your vote on Ydrasse only occurred after:
- Ari had voted Ydrasse
- I had expressed I thought the scumteam was you/Ydrasse
- I expressed that I would elim Ydrasse (but didn’t vote)
- Adorable had just made a post talking about how she was considering the Ydrasse/Reck scumteam I was proposing

From your perspective at the time, it would have appeared as if the tide was turning against Ydrasse(/you) rather than you making it happen as you claim.

Whatever DV. I had also expressed interest in voting Ydrasse but you fail to give me any due credit for that

It wasn't until I pulled the trigger that things got going. Xof and Bulge were basically waiting on ME to do something to push a wagon in one direction or the other because I was their top town read. If I didn't want Ydrasse eliminated yesterday it wouldn't have happened, period

[xRECKONERx]

One of Ari/DV is gettin fleeced by the other one. IDK which, I think it's DV getting fleeced by Ari but I don't really care that much.

"You can't think this is scum theater" is such a lazy defense on Ari's end

I tried to get Ydrasse eliminated day fucking one but got shouted back onto RCE, which like, great I guess it was still scum, but in what universe do I, as scum, try to get my more-cleared buddy yeeted instead of the dead in the water bad claim who is dead the next day? In what universe do I "bus" RCE/beeboy while, the whole time, making it clear I am not voting the slot for being scummy, therefore ruining any "town cred" I would've gotten from bussing them in the first place? It makes zero fucking sense.

I mean I think what happened here is when I wasn't the mason it sent the final scum into a panic bc I was being pretty universally townread but now they can't afford to waste a kill on me. and that's why the second that Bulge died we have Ari capitalizing on DV's already-stated paranoia and suspicion about me despite everything leading up to today being Ari saying he thought I was town and that his team agreed.

[xRECKONERx]

I'm conflicted. DV has been making good points and the more I see DV post, the more it is making me lean towards scum Reck.

that point is wrong and if you have concerns I'm happy to address them

[xRECKONERx]

Whatever DV. I had also expressed interest in voting Ydrasse but you fail to give me any due credit for that

Where?

viewtopic.php?p=12578099#p12578099
viewtopic.php?p=12593647#p12593647
viewtopic.php?p=12594487#p12594487
viewtopic.php?p=12648494#p12648494
viewtopic.php?p=12650227#p12650227
viewtopic.php?p=12651715#p12651715

Here's all the times I directly stated I would vote or did vote Ydrasse
This isn't including all the times I pushed Ydrasse as suspicious but didn't expressly vote or intend to vote

PS i saw something in my ISO that made me raise an eyebrow a/b Adorable but I'm going to bed, reminding myself that "adorable w/r/t beeboy/ydrasse" needs a refresher

[xRECKONERx]

Also Reck, I do get your points about how you don't make sense as scum, you being scum is just not quite as nonsense to me as Ari or Adorable being scum is.

Would you like me to actually case Ari again now that we have associatives or are you going to handwave it to continue to ride the train to stupidtown

[xRECKONERx]

I mean, adorable probably votes me here Reck.

if you think ado is boting you anyway then why r u tryiung to make me not caseyou

[xRECKONERx]

Sorry guys I hate to do this but the fucking vaccine is still fucking my arm up something awful days after the fact. It's all blue and bruised and hurts to do anything, so I'm keeping time on my computer limited for a couple days until the swelling goes down

[xRECKONERx]

I'm leaning on voting Reckoner. DV's points on him were really good. I have also been sus of Ari's play and I noticed he is being defeatism which is really weird for scum to do. I skimmed through Ari's completed scum games and I saw a game where he was also being defeatism as scum and it seems like Ari being defeatism is nai. He also wanted a mass claim here and in one of his completed scum games I saw he was also up for a mass claim and that is also nai.

I have also been worried that there was scum theatre going on between Ydrasse and Ari. Another reason why I'm also leaning on voting Reckoner is because when I asked Ari why did he vote Ydrasse on day 2 when he said he earlier town read her on day 2 I thought the answer Ari gave me looked reasonable.

I am not scum, you are going to be wrong on me. What points of DV's did you think were really good?

I'm confused by your analysis of Ari's play though. You say that he's being defeatist, but it would be weird for scum to be defeatist, yet your meta of Ari is that he was defeatist as scum before? Why is that NAI?

Like everything you pointed out about Ari is "Well, he did this thing here, and he also did it this other time as scum, so it's NAI". I don't think meta has value, but isn't that the exact OPPOSITE of true?

[xRECKONERx]

I really don't know what to do here. Frankly, I don't know how to communicate with Adorable and it seems xof and I need her vote now. Adorable, I think it's telling that the last confirmed town mason thinks I'm town, and the dead town doctor thought I was town before he died. Bulge laid out a very clear PoE that included Ari/DV, NOT me and you. I can feel him screaming at us from beyond the grave.

[xRECKONERx]

@xof: There's no way you'd consider DV today, right?

[xRECKONERx]

I'm leaning on voting Reckoner. DV's points on him were really good. I have also been sus of Ari's play and I noticed he is being defeatism which is really weird for scum to do. I skimmed through Ari's completed scum games and I saw a game where he was also being defeatism as scum and it seems like Ari being defeatism is nai. He also wanted a mass claim here and in one of his completed scum games I saw he was also up for a mass claim and that is also nai.

I have also been worried that there was scum theatre going on between Ydrasse and Ari. Another reason why I'm also leaning on voting Reckoner is because when I asked Ari why did he vote Ydrasse on day 2 when he said he earlier town read her on day 2 I thought the answer Ari gave me looked reasonable.

I am not scum, you are going to be wrong on me. What points of DV's did you think were really good?

I'm confused by your analysis of Ari's play though. You say that he's being defeatist, but it would be weird for scum to be defeatist, yet your meta of Ari is that he was defeatist as scum before? Why is that NAI?

Like everything you pointed out about Ari is "Well, he did this thing here, and he also did it this other time as scum, so it's NAI". I don't think meta has value, but isn't that the exact OPPOSITE of true?

These were the posts DV made that looked good.
2795
2870
2892

About Ari being defeatist I saw one of his completed scum game where he was being defeatist. I have not checked most of his town games and I'm assuming he is also defeatist as town. I remember one of DV's reasoning for town reading Ari was because of him being defeatist and when I looked through some of Ari's scum games that is nai from Ari.

What I'm saying is that you're reading something Ari does as scum as NAI without ever seeing him do it as town. That's really strange to me.

What about those DV posts looked good to you?

[xRECKONERx]

I really don't know what to do here. Frankly, I don't know how to communicate with Adorable and it seems xof and I need her vote now. Adorable, I think it's telling that the last confirmed town mason thinks I'm town, and the dead town doctor thought I was town before he died. Bulge laid out a very clear PoE that included Ari/DV, NOT me and you. I can feel him screaming at us from beyond the grave.

Not sure why you’re using this line of defence.

People were using Hectic’s defence of Ydrasse as reason not to elim Ydrasse.

You’re also asking xof about considering a vote on me when I was a top townread of Hectic, bulge had also taken me out of their PoE and the last confirmed town mason also thinks I’m town.

You must not genuinely believe that those are good reasons to think you are town when you are suggesting me as a vote in your next post despite those reasons also applying to me

I have literally zero reason to talk to you anymore, I don't think you're engaging me in good faith. I actually think it's highly more likely that you're scum than Ari here, but xof hasn't shown interest in budging.

[xRECKONERx]

I'm leaning on voting Reckoner. DV's points on him were really good. I have also been sus of Ari's play and I noticed he is being defeatism which is really weird for scum to do. I skimmed through Ari's completed scum games and I saw a game where he was also being defeatism as scum and it seems like Ari being defeatism is nai. He also wanted a mass claim here and in one of his completed scum games I saw he was also up for a mass claim and that is also nai.

I have also been worried that there was scum theatre going on between Ydrasse and Ari. Another reason why I'm also leaning on voting Reckoner is because when I asked Ari why did he vote Ydrasse on day 2 when he said he earlier town read her on day 2 I thought the answer Ari gave me looked reasonable.

I am not scum, you are going to be wrong on me. What points of DV's did you think were really good?

I'm confused by your analysis of Ari's play though. You say that he's being defeatist, but it would be weird for scum to be defeatist, yet your meta of Ari is that he was defeatist as scum before? Why is that NAI?

Like everything you pointed out about Ari is "Well, he did this thing here, and he also did it this other time as scum, so it's NAI". I don't think meta has value, but isn't that the exact OPPOSITE of true?

These were the posts DV made that looked good.
2795
2870
2892

About Ari being defeatist I saw one of his completed scum game where he was being defeatist. I have not checked most of his town games and I'm assuming he is also defeatist as town. I remember one of DV's reasoning for town reading Ari was because of him being defeatist and when I looked through some of Ari's scum games that is nai from Ari.

What I'm saying is that you're reading something Ari does as scum as NAI without ever seeing him do it as town. That's really strange to me.

What about those DV posts looked good to you?

I said earlier I noticed Ari is being defeatist which is weird for scum to do. What I meant here is I did not think scum would be defeatist like what Ari is doing which made me think this comes from town. When I looked through some of Ari's completed scum games I saw a scum game of his where he was being defeatist and I learned this is nai from him. If I didn't look through some his completed scum games then I would have thought that was town indicative from him.

The posts from DV it looked like you and Ydrasse are scum buddies.

and what did you think of my response to DV's earlier post

viewtopic.php?p=12659785#p12659785

[xRECKONERx]

So after reading that, are you more convinced by me or by DV? Why? Why not?

[xRECKONERx]

So after reading that, are you more convinced by me or by DV? Why? Why not?

I'm more convinced by DV because of his posts he made on 2795, 2870, and 2892 which looked like you and Ydrasse are scum buddies.

You are 100% going to throw the game if you vote for me. I am town. I responded to those posts to explain my perspective on those. You said that you agreed with my responses. And then I ask you where you are, and you just quote it back to me. You're like a fucking robot programmed to give me a goddamn aneurysm.

[xRECKONERx]

First, the mention of deflecting the wagon to DV is a sort of compromise in trying to get the wagon off himself is a scum move and very preservationist.

I've preferred DV to you this entire phase. I simply know that I can't take a swing at DV as long as xof won't allow it. But xof will be the final kill tonight unless scum are literally braindead, so if it's not you, then I go into tomorrow with the ability to take a shot at DV in LYLO if we're wrong here. That's the simple reasoning.

Don't worry, you have Adorable not understanding basic fucking human language here, you'll get your mislim on me and then you can all figure out what the fuck to do tomorrow, I get to wash my hands of this god forsaken trash heap of a website and never look back, everybody wins.

[xRECKONERx]

FWIW, the last scum is in DV/Ari. More likely to be DV, bc of the active role he took in throwing bad faith arguments at me and diverting the town momentum we had going post-Ydrasse wagon. Scum's hail mary would be to take me out here to avoid the easy run down the list that Bulge and I talked about yesterday.

Notice how DV/Ari aren't even remotely planning on issuing reads or thoughts about Adorable/Ari? Because one of them is bad town and one of them is lazy scum. Gun to my head, DV's the scum, Ari's the bad town being lead off a cliff, but depends on my mood. Could be either of them on any given moment. It could literally be either of them! Too bad Adorable can't rub two braincells together to figure that out. Sorry xof, at least you'll get to die tonight too and stop giving a shit about this game, and Team Mafia in general.
I left my team's Discord about a week and some change ago, so I don't know what their thoughts are anymore, and don't care much either.

[xRECKONERx]

All I care about is this game ending.

The quickest path to that is by actually killing scum here but whoever the townie is between you and DV are more content to throw the game. That's fine.

If you trust Adorable to make an intelligent decision in LYLO, then god help you.

[xRECKONERx]

I bet scumReck would totally piss Adorable off into hammering him, by insulting her over and over. Yep, this is such scummy play here and definitely not someone who is just fucking pissed off watching two townies throw the game away

[xRECKONERx]

love the necro