Mini Normal 2205: RotITGBSMoD [game over!]

[PookyTheMagicalBear]

nah i need to resolve your slot first she could always be really newbie

[PookyTheMagicalBear]

im not getting t3'd again

[PookyTheMagicalBear]

why are you even ? andres when you just said he might be 75% scum lol

[PookyTheMagicalBear]

and how did you go from voting asteria on dayplay to agreeing with VFP that asteria is town?

[PookyTheMagicalBear]

you just said to VFP that maybe all the scum was in that 4pool he mentioned after voting asteria to open

[PookyTheMagicalBear]

you just said to VFP that maybe all the scum was in that 4pool he mentioned after voting asteria to open

because i want him to keep his vote where it is, happy?

why are you open-wolfing -,-

[PookyTheMagicalBear]

im not really awake but could someone unvote so i have time to think about the mech

thx

[PookyTheMagicalBear]

you dont have a rolecop ability

Then Insidious is always Scum. And they’re signaling to Pooky that they know they’re the Traitor.

if i was traitor i wouldve just hammered koba lolol

stop being bad

[PookyTheMagicalBear]

So after that I think maybe the bottom? These seem to be the only possible ways.

Pooky - Mafia Doc Traitor (Knows who to protect)
Anya - Roleblocker
Lemons - Rolecop

this is confirmed wrong because the number of guns in this solve is wrong

koba vig asteria neapo = 2 guns

anya/lemons = 2 guns

our dead informed gunsmith = 1 gun

btw our dead informed gunsmith said there were 4 guns

[PookyTheMagicalBear]

Sure Pooky I’m “bad” again. Is that all you got? Or do you actually have ideas?

im just informing you that your belief is obviously wrong for obvious reason

[PookyTheMagicalBear]

Use your words. Elaborate. Explain where we’re going wrong. Who the Scum are.

I did explain in a very clear manner

i don't know who the scum are

i said i needed time to think about the mech

[PookyTheMagicalBear]

So you know nothing. So outside of you just plainly defending yourself, how am I bad?

i said your solve makes no sense cuz i wouldve just hammered koba

[PookyTheMagicalBear]

In ELo maybe. Don’t you want to make sure you don’t look suspicious as hell otherwise? Like what?

we're 1 day from elo I would hammer for lulz if I was scum

[PookyTheMagicalBear]

p-edit because every-night roleblocker plus doctor is ludicrously scum-sided?

us not having a vig at all is also pretty scumsided lol

[PookyTheMagicalBear]

if we have a vig who isn't koba they should've counterclaimed by now right?

[PookyTheMagicalBear]

No, you getting lim tomorrow means that we lim Lemons if a traitor.
You not hammering is NAI.

nope that's not how the game works

[PookyTheMagicalBear]

I said slow down and think about the mech here

we don't need to rush today

we have 11 days.

calm down

[PookyTheMagicalBear]

im telling you I hammer koba 100 times out of 100 if im scum cuz i dont care about blowback

[PookyTheMagicalBear]

wtf thats like another gun

[PookyTheMagicalBear]

koba did u fake claim omg i hate you

[PookyTheMagicalBear]

basically a tldr: I'm informed gs, we have 4 guns this game (I am 1 of those)

[PookyTheMagicalBear]

so there's four guns in a total this game, Andante is confirmed town, dead gun, which means 3 more guns total and we have:



four claimed guns - which should mean 2 of these at least are lying.

[PookyTheMagicalBear]

If there's 2 scum with guns - then there is only 1 TPR with a gun and that means THREE of these players are lying:




If there's 1 scum with a gun (1 doctor, 1 traitor or other scum without a gun) then TWO of these players are lying:

[PookyTheMagicalBear]

Either way that's max 1 scum within:

Pooky, Anya, Osuka, VFP, Andres because there must be at least TWO liars in the gun category unless NONE of the scum have gun in which case I WILL FLAME DATISI SO HARD AFTER THIS GAME FOR PUTTING A INFORMED GUNSMITH INTO A GAME WHERE SCUM DONT HAVE A SINGLE GUN LIKE WHAT A RIDICULOUS GAME

[PookyTheMagicalBear]

yea we might as well mass claim at this point

[PookyTheMagicalBear]

after mass claim i want to think about what setup is most likely to get passed

we almost definitely elim in the gun pool today and tommorrow due to lie density there being off the chart

[PookyTheMagicalBear]

um there has to be at least 2 scum in the gun claims if we are in a 1 scum with gun world

if we are in a 2 scum with gun world, there are three scum in the gun claims.

So if I dont see a traitor flip im happy to just kill every gun claimer

[PookyTheMagicalBear]

I don't think it's possible for us to be playing in a 0 gun scum world because that would be massive trolling by Datisi and the NRG.

I'd like to mass claim to figure out what the setup is and where the best elim is today.

I am a Vanilla Townie.

[PookyTheMagicalBear]

do you understand how much of a massive throw it would be for clidd to fake claim that here.

like it would be unfathomably bad play lolololol

[PookyTheMagicalBear]

if we're in the world where scum have 2 guns, then clidd-scum just threw the game cuz we can just elim all the gun claimers and win the game.

[PookyTheMagicalBear]

if we're in the world where scum have 2 guns, then clidd-scum just threw the game cuz we can just elim all the gun claimers and win the game.

How is this even remotely accurate?

I made a chart dude

if scum have 2 guns, then three of the gun claimers are lying scum and we can win by elimming all the gun claimers

[PookyTheMagicalBear]

i said if scum have 2 guns.

if one of the scum is a traitor then scum do not have 2 guns and we have 2 lying scum in the 4 gun-claims

[PookyTheMagicalBear]

that only works if we hit RB first

if we are in a 2 scum-gun world then 3/4 of the gun-claims are lying scum.

we eliminate all of them, we have a mis-elim to give since we are at 9 - even if we elim the one townie in the 4 first, we just elim the other three afterwards and the game is over.

[PookyTheMagicalBear]

can we not vote any1 off until we finish mass claim

i want to think about the balance

we have so far

VFP - VT (Neap'd by Asteria N1)
Pooky - VT (Rolecopped by Lemons N2)
Andres - VT

[PookyTheMagicalBear]

I'm thinking Asteria might be hardtown'd just by how garbage the town side power is

[PookyTheMagicalBear]

like 1 shot detective and 1 shot role cop is not really very strong in terms of TPRs

[PookyTheMagicalBear]

but Datisi hates the town with a burning passion in his heart so maybe

I want to see the rest of this setup

[PookyTheMagicalBear]

weak vig what a joke

every time I roll scum I play vs shit like three shot vig and odd night vig just blasting all over the place

when i roll town the best vig i could possibly have is a weak vig

why does the NRG hate me so much

[PookyTheMagicalBear]

who did you shoot last night koba

[PookyTheMagicalBear]

I mean we know there have to be at least 2 scum in the 4 gun claims right? Unless we are in a 0 gun scum world, in which case LOL GOOD TROLL DATISI

[PookyTheMagicalBear]

pretty sure that would be a mod lie

[PookyTheMagicalBear]

mafia doctors dont have guns they r like a godfather to a gunsmith

[PookyTheMagicalBear]

koba if we flip you and you're town, who do you want us to flip from the gun-claims next tomm?

[PookyTheMagicalBear]

koba if we flip you and you're town, who do you want us to flip from the gun-claims next tomm?

hot take but andres but also dont rush please

im only eliminating in the gun claims if you flip town cuz we have at least 2 scum in the 4

[PookyTheMagicalBear]

TRUE

@Mod What result does a Hypothetical Rolecop get on a Vanilla Townie?

@Mod What result does a Hypothetical Rolecop get on a Mafia Goon?

[PookyTheMagicalBear]

how does lemons know i am a vanilla townie !?!?

[PookyTheMagicalBear]

how does lemons know i am a vanilla townie !?!?

this is the stupidest technicality ever
my result returned was "vanilla" and by process of elimination you had to be townie because you're unarmed, therefore confirmed VT

I completely forgot andante checked me before she died lololol

[PookyTheMagicalBear]

Clidd - 1 shot Detective, checked Pooky N1 no kill
Lemons - N2 Rolecop, checked Pooky and got Vanilla (assumed VT)?

I'm guranteed VT cuz Andante said I don't have a gun

im like the most checked player in the game

[PookyTheMagicalBear]

this game hurts my head when i think about it

it makes 0 sense for clidd-scum to claim yet another gun when the gunpool is already exploded past the number

it also makes 0 sense for multiple scum to fake-claim guns cuz like

why

just why

i'm going to piece things together tonight and hopefully I don't go insane

[PookyTheMagicalBear]

A not very popular explanation would be if there was only one scum between the claims and we were forcing scumreads on town slots, creating the feeling that we are not being able to find out who is scum (considering that we're scumhunting for 2~3 where there is just 1).

yea i kind of have paranoid pangs in my gut that what happened was:

Andante was informed that there are Four

Other

Players with guns in the game.

and she misread it.

I'd rather lose because of that than lose because we decided to not listen to her info.

so let's just assume we are in a 4 gun world and there are minimum 2 wolves in the 4Gun-Pool

[PookyTheMagicalBear]

yea which is why it is super confusing to me

[PookyTheMagicalBear]

here's the thing.

If we assume 2 scum in the 4 Gun-Pool

That means there's only 3 Town Power Roles in this game.

The norm for a Mini Normal is ~ 4-5 TPRs..

Datisi's last two Mini Normals had 4 TPRs each:

Spoiler: Mini 2187

town:
1x town innocent child jailkeeper enabler
1x town joat (neapolitan, gunsmith, tracker)
1x town 3-shot vigilante
1x bulletproof townie
6x vt

scum:
1x mafia multitasking jailkeeper
1x mafia informed ([player] is a town innocent child jailkeeper enabler; there are no town-aligned aliens, babysitters, bodyguards, commuters, doctors, hiders, jailkeepers or rolestoppers, backups for one of these roles, or joats with the ability from at least one of these roles)
1x mafia bulletproof enabler

and

Spoiler: Mini 2163

town:
1x town informed loyal cop (informed there is at least one mafia member with the rolestopper ability)
1x town jailkeeper
1x town commuter
1x town checker miller
6x VT

scum:
1x mafia rolestopper
1x mafia n1 informed (informed there is a town informed loyal cop)
1x mafia goon

[PookyTheMagicalBear]

Here's all the possible mech combinations we could have:



Do any of those look like even remotely balanced against Mafia Doctor + Mafia Roleblocker + Mafia Traitor?

[PookyTheMagicalBear]

i don't know why you're assuming 2 armed scum though. in a game with an informed gunsmith and a mafia doctor, doesn't it make perfect sense to put a traitor in there to make the gunsmith's info less reliable? maybe even a traitor PR (like RB) to balance things out? i don't want to get too deep into setup spec but there's a reason these possibilities have been raised.

p-edit i don't really have an eye for balance but mafia doctor + mafia goon + mafia traitor roleblocker could actually be argued to be more plausible, since it would remove the ability for the mafia to coordinate a roleblock and open up the possibility for the doctor themself to get rb'd

I am not assuming 2 armed scum. I am assuming 1 armed scum.

If we had 2 armed scum that means we only had 2 TPRs total...

[PookyTheMagicalBear]

also thank you for the chart it's incredibly helpful

Which TPR do you think you are paired with?

[PookyTheMagicalBear]

The NRG has a history of trolling the shit out of their players so there is definitely a possibility of a game being run with no town vig and a pre-announced mafia doctor

[PookyTheMagicalBear]

primary reviewer: mastina

yea we definitely could be getting wifom'd

Mastina + Datisi = the most Scumsiding ModTeam ever (love you both! <3)

[PookyTheMagicalBear]

Clidd who do you think is the TPR in the group of 4 other than yourself?

[PookyTheMagicalBear]

what retract

[PookyTheMagicalBear]

koba retracted the weak vig claim?

[PookyTheMagicalBear]

I don't think koba claimed retraction

[PookyTheMagicalBear]

koba is only saying that koba might as well be a VT given that koba shouldn't use koba's ability since it might lead to auto lose

[PookyTheMagicalBear]

you understand there's 2 liars in the gun claims right?

[PookyTheMagicalBear]

but sure you've got a point
VOTE: vfp

we need to kill in the gun-pool

there is max 1 scum in the non-gunpool

[PookyTheMagicalBear]

right now my solve is Koba - Lemons - Anya for the baddie team

Maybe subsitute Asteria for Koba.

I think we either need a Neapo or a Vig.

what do you think?

[PookyTheMagicalBear]

I will guide the legions of Barad-dûr to victory against the pesky Do-Gooders such as Galadriel(Anya) and Gandalf(Lemonz) - None can hide from my Gaze.

[PookyTheMagicalBear]

I want my fan-fiction to be miraculously right for my postgame bragging rights

[PookyTheMagicalBear]

also does your reasoning for wanting anya dead go beyond "she's on the asteria wagon"

anya feels very surface level and barely playing the game

[PookyTheMagicalBear]

i think if everyone is agreed on lemons then we elim lemons first?

I think one of Koba/Asteria has to be town just from a balance perspective.

I like Clidd as town more than Lemons.

[PookyTheMagicalBear]

also if Lemons flips as something like scum rolecop then we know we dont have a scum roleblocker and koba is guranteed lying

[PookyTheMagicalBear]

if the town team was clidd/lemons this is like the weakest town pr pool ever

[PookyTheMagicalBear]

it depends how much datisi hates me i guess

[PookyTheMagicalBear]

how did he know i would replace into the townside :<

[PookyTheMagicalBear]

t'was a cunning trap

[PookyTheMagicalBear]

<3 you dats

[PookyTheMagicalBear]

osuka r u ok with lemons elim?

[PookyTheMagicalBear]

im thinking

lemons dies today-> townflip = clidd-scum, one scum btw koba/asteria

lemons dies today-> scumflip = clidd-town, one scum btw koba/asteria

lemons dies today-> scum rolecop flip, Koba-scum, Asteria/Clidd town

I think max 1 scum btw lemons/clidd because it wouldn't make sense for 2 scum to come out with gun counterclaims?

but max 1 town btw lemons/clidd because the townside is too weak with those being the 2 town.

[PookyTheMagicalBear]

I think max 1 scum btw lemons/clidd because it wouldn't make sense for 2 scum to come out with gun counterclaims?

i mean consecutive counterclaims

[PookyTheMagicalBear]

lemons - asteria - andres?

anyway

VOTE: Lemons

let's see what happens

[PookyTheMagicalBear]

are you very sure of koba scum ?

[PookyTheMagicalBear]

I still strongly believe my case on clidd/salsa is enough to say clidd is lying about being a town gun PR. The way they were acting before he claimed did not match up to what was claimed.

then why does clidd claim PR?

the PR gun pool is already huge

salsa's behavior doesnt match up with a pr claim

why jump into the pool? I dont see the scum motivation

[PookyTheMagicalBear]

ngl im actually thinking lemons/clidd are t/t and this is the weakest town pr pool ive ever played in

[PookyTheMagicalBear]

my paranoia off the charts rn

[PookyTheMagicalBear]

what do you think is the likelihood of a koba/asteria scumteam judging solely by play and interactions

the difference between Koba/Asteria and Lemons/Clidd is that Koba/Asteria got forced into their claims by pressure whereas Lemons/Clidd claimed voluntarily.

[PookyTheMagicalBear]

but if we're in a Koba/Asteria scum world then this is like the most scum-sided setup of all time

then again DADDYTISI is the most scumsided mod of all time so might be true

How he got this past Mastina though is mystery

[PookyTheMagicalBear]

omg i hate this game

VOTE: noone

adding UNVOTE: for the vote counter to understand -D

[PookyTheMagicalBear]

on the bright side i probly get shot today so I dont really have to keep playing after this elim

[PookyTheMagicalBear]

i dont really trust you -.-

[PookyTheMagicalBear]

also i can moan and cry about game imbalance if this is the weakest town pool i've ever played in if we lose to koba/asteria

[PookyTheMagicalBear]

pooky do you think I fakeclaim claim vig d1 in a setup like this with the risk that I'll get ccd ??

vig wouldnt cc you, vig would just shoot you

[PookyTheMagicalBear]

so i can see you claiming this if you are bulletproof traitor

[PookyTheMagicalBear]

my third brain is telling me that this is some quality scum theater between koba and anya and they are trying to confuse my other two brains

[PookyTheMagicalBear]

im going to fly to slovakia kidnap datisi and make him tell me the truth

[PookyTheMagicalBear]

i know datisi doesnt live in slovakia

it is just a small lie to make him think he is safe in serbia while i get closer

[PookyTheMagicalBear]

btw those were all jokes i am not going to do any harm to anyone please dont ban me

[PookyTheMagicalBear]

i love datisi very much and would never harm a hair on his head <3

[PookyTheMagicalBear]

this Anya Koba Scum Theater is steamy

I think maybe they do not share a scum PT so they are signalling to each other

i will break out my codebreaking equipment

[PookyTheMagicalBear]

Are u sure theres 2 scum in pr claims pooky

well there have to be 4 guns

andante = dead gun.

there's 3 guns left.

there's 4 claimed guns right now.

so one gun is lying scum

another gun should be scum gun.

otherwise there is no scum gun and our gunsmith is a cruel joke

[PookyTheMagicalBear]

the roleblocker has to have a gun right? otherwise we have a roleblocker traitor and 2 mafia docs against a weak vig + informed gunsmith who cant find any scum?

sounds like really scumsided

[PookyTheMagicalBear]

r you two just trolling me now

when did anya get a quadruple vote

[PookyTheMagicalBear]

ill be honest the only way this game state makes sense is if koba is VT and fake claimed vig to troll me

[PookyTheMagicalBear]

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA IM FREE FREEEEEEEE FREEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE FREEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE!!!!!!

[PookyTheMagicalBear]

i fucked up my bad

[PookyTheMagicalBear]

osuka koba and anya were from my pov the most scummy three players in the game and i should have just ignored the mech and yeeted them all on dayplay alone but instead I made decisions based on mech and lost badly.

I should have no expectations for game balance

[PookyTheMagicalBear]

lemons vfp clidd asteria and andante played their townie hearts out and we should have won this if we had just ignored the mech and that mistake was ours to make

the nrg exists solely to troll the players

[PookyTheMagicalBear]

yea lemons

you played your heart out

i should have known this was a massive troll setup.

my bad

[PookyTheMagicalBear]

Vig claim was a huge gambit bc we believed a real vig existed but yeah.

theres no reason a real vig would exist in a game where all mafia are doctors because how would a real vig even get a shot in.

i have no words for how scumsided this setup is, I would never pass this in a million years but whatever.

[PookyTheMagicalBear]

the town had essentially 0 power in a game with 3 scum doctors that were more or less informed of the setup.

[PookyTheMagicalBear]

the town power roles on balance were essentially minus ev

this setup is worse than 3-10 MT by a mile on the balance side

[PookyTheMagicalBear]

i think 3 10 MT is more winnable than this because the tprs in this game were minus ev

[PookyTheMagicalBear]

i am actually confident that if this game had been 3 - 10 MT that the town would have won decisively.

[PookyTheMagicalBear]

not my fault yall didn't lim me 3 days straight smh

the only reason you even lived was because we didnt think the town could possibly be so underpowered as to not have a vig lol.

[PookyTheMagicalBear]

the town had essentially 0 power in a game with 3 scum doctors that were more or less informed of the setup.

how so? neap can get innos, rolecop can get a guilty, gunsmith once claimed will probably be treated as an ic, one-shot detective is a little extra, and scum is essentially playing white flag considering if two of them flip, the rest of the setup will probably be figured out soon after.

granted, maybe i shouldn't be saying "gunsmith will be treated as an ic" considering what happened with the vig claim, but comparing this to mt 10v3 is a bit extreme i think.

rolecop neapo gunsmith are not "strong" prs

strong prs are like IC, Mason, Vig because they are self confirming

this setup essentially had no strong tprs and wifom thrown in to subtract ev from townside.

[PookyTheMagicalBear]

it wasnt even a gambit

making three mafia doctors means there shouldnt be a vig

[PookyTheMagicalBear]

this setup is the most scum sided thing ive played in 18 years on this site

[PookyTheMagicalBear]

it wasnt even a gambit

making three mafia doctors means there shouldnt be a vig

We werent multitasking

doesnt matter

theres no point for a town vig if the mafia are that powered up

[PookyTheMagicalBear]

gunsmith in a game with three mafia doctors is just lol level trolling <3

love you dats thanks for modding. always an experience.

havent been this tilted at a setup in years.

[PookyTheMagicalBear]

the only reason you stayed alive was because we didn't think the setup could possibly be that unbalanced.

you can disagree and say the balance of the setup is fair and I don't really see the need to discuss anything if that's what you feel.

[PookyTheMagicalBear]

I am glad we never flipped your slot though because we never would've gotten to the "there are three mafia doctors" part and we would've killed in the tpr pool looking for the gunned killer and it would've been brutal

at least this way it played out to a quick end, a mercy killing of sorts.

[PookyTheMagicalBear]

putting a gunsmith in a game with no gunned killers is farcical.

The game is not scum vs town

it is town vs mod

and the mod won

surprising noone.

[PookyTheMagicalBear]

Role cop sees doc - confirmed guilty.

that's not actually true rofl.

in the game I linked where the town was informed that a mafia doc existed.

For example we did a gambit in the previous game with the town informed of a mafia doctor where Ydrasse claimed doctor with a no kill on D1 and she managed to go all the way for the win.

Investigating a doctor =/= auto guilty in this setup.

[PookyTheMagicalBear]

knowing there is a mafia doctor in the game does not mean there is no town doctor in the game.

you're balancing the game as if the town had the information that their power roles had guns and the mafia have no guns.

[PookyTheMagicalBear]

Also in general, I would like to reiterate that knowing there is a mafia doctor in the game, while not meaning there isn't a town doctor in the game 100%, does mean the chances of a town doctor plummet to .01%. A town doctor in a game where there's public information of a scum doctor isn't 100% impossible, but it's 99.99% improbable in that it's something you're almost never going to ever see. It IS expected that there isn't a town doctor in a game where there's publicly confirmed presence of a mafia doctor. The presence of a town doctor in a game where it's public information that there's a mafia doctor is explicitly going to be the exception to the rule of them not being there.

this isn't even true.

how does the existence of a mafia doctor imply that the chance of a town doctor is at 00.01% ?

[PookyTheMagicalBear]

also if theres a town doctor they clain daystart a'la miller lol

But also like i said before, this was a run that was a rogue variable bc the worst case scenario for a lot of things happened at once. If i was limmed d2/d3 my team would have struggled a lot more. We were forced to kill the GS and the Napolitan and the rolecop was a threat we didnt know how many shots they might have.

nobody claims a doctor like a miller what

[PookyTheMagicalBear]

do you think its not a reasonable assumption for the town to believe that if they have a gunsmith that at least one bad guy should have a gun?

[PookyTheMagicalBear]

i already said that this game was relatively easy to win via dayplay and that the town wouldve won this running away if we had ignored all claims, all mech and treated this as a 10:3 mountainous

the very fact that the result was divergent from a 10:3 MT speaks to how ludicrous the setup is.

[PookyTheMagicalBear]

when you create a setup where the town has to guess at incredibly unlikely things to have a chance of winning

the game is no longer town vs scum

it is town vs mod.

and if the nrg decides its fine to pass setups designed explicitly to screw towns over you will get towns refusing to even play the nightgame since every possible interaction could just be a nrg troll trap where the mods think its fun to loltroll the town.

[PookyTheMagicalBear]

the fact that despite extremely strong dayplay on the townside, the entire town decided to stick with the mech assumptions explicitly because they believed the actual setup is outside the "troll range" of the NRG speaks to how absurd this setup is.

you may think you are being "clever" by designing a setup where the town gets hosed but you are really just reducing this game into one where the play of the players does not really matter at all.