Mini Normal 2205: RotITGBSMoD [game over!]

[osuka]

@Mod, I hurt my right hand pretty badly by doing a household chores :cry: and I'm a right handed person :facepalm: which makes typing from the left hand very hard for me :( I want to take 24 hours V/LA to see if my hand is getting better durning this time. Sorry for the trouble again. :(

hope you get better soon!

[osuka]

VOTE: Asteria

not sure how any of what's happened recently could convince you that voting Asteria is a bad idea. i am more than fine with this elim today. worst case scenario we STILL get more info than if we flip T3

holy shit isnt that what ive been saying for days now

[osuka]

VOTE: Asteria

not sure how any of what's happened recently could convince you that voting Asteria is a bad idea. i am more than fine with this elim today. worst case scenario we STILL get more info than if we flip T3

holy shit isnt that what ive been saying for days now

So why arent u voting there

i haven’t voted asteria because that would be e-1 and i don’t trust you clowns not to hammer, but consider my vote to be spiritually on that slot

[osuka]

Cause literally everyone on the Asteria train keeps saying she's flipping neo, I don't feel good about it... ahhh

no i dont think she'll flip nea. i'm saying that even IF she does, that's not a total loss

[osuka]

Yeah, but I'm not thinking about a T3 flip instead of Asteria anymore, like, I'm thinking about finding an actual scumread.

name starts with an a and ends in ndresvmb

I was thinking more along the lines of starts with s and ends in alsabil Faria

i can also get behind this if you think asteria is a bad exec, which is also something ive said

[osuka]

VOTE: Asteria

not sure how any of what's happened recently could convince you that voting Asteria is a bad idea. i am more than fine with this elim today. worst case scenario we STILL get more info than if we flip T3

holy shit isnt that what ive been saying for days now

So why arent u voting there

i haven’t voted asteria because that would be e-1 and i don’t trust you clowns not to hammer, but consider my vote to be spiritually on that slot

shooting u on a red flip

be my guest, at least youd be confirmed then

[osuka]

agreed. i wanted to see if you'd try and fabricate something more directly town AI. i've just read through hT3's posts in the game of his you linked, and while i agree he is much more active there than he has been here, he only had about half as much catch-up to do. combine this with the fact that he's a (supposedly) 13-year-old kid who's playing multiple games at once, several of which he replaced into and has to catch up on, and i really don't think it's that unreasonable to read his posting thus far as demotivated/burnt out town (piss-poor though that posting may be). 2914 is a bit more confusing to me now.

@osuka can you explain a bit more why reading T3's meta swung you so strongly when, by your own admission, meta doesn't usually have that effect on you? what did you see in that game that andante and i are missing?

p-edit mafdoc!pooky isn't entirely out of the question to me. i've seen maf PRs intentionally stand out and attract attention D1 in the way pooky did in order to allay accusations of trying to fly under the radar.

meta is usually shit because so many things factor into how someone plays a game. maybe they're having a shit couple of weeks, maybe they're very busy with school or work, maybe they just got dumped by their SO. who knows? meta is typically worthless with the notable exception that after having played with people for some period of time, you might be able to get a very indistinct "feeling" for someone's alignment, which is what i have with andres here

that said, what swung me in this particular case is the fact that t3 is not putting in any effort into this game, to the point where im quite literally supporting a policy lynch, and when you contrast that to his game from _a week ago_, he was actually actively scumhunting and conversing with several people. not anywhere close to spamming the thread, but still a night/day difference when compared with the absolute shit-tier, stunning display of complete incompetence or indifference he's showing in this game

[osuka]

I find it a little weird VFP doesn't think to question Asteria at all... like, sure you're VT and someone guessed correctly that you are, just feels like VFP has no doubt with Asteria, so I'm not so sure she's actually neo

that being said: town points to VFP for

not

referencing the above-quoted conversation in response to this attack

why does this get town points? i'm following your case and i have zero problems with it so far

[osuka]

i kinda dont really want that responsibility cuz I could just be wrong.

I just want to know what every1 is seeing in Asteria's play that makes them want to kill her even when she's claiming a Neop

she claimed in the weirdest way possible, and she's barely made any cases so far. like 90% of her posts aren't actually original and she just parroted random people for the entire first day

like seriously who goes "vfp is vt", only to have vfp go "asteria is lying" and immediately afterwards say "i'm vt for the record"? then she goes "oh well i'm not sure why he thinks i'm lying because he really is 100% vt, by the way here's my pool it's everyone that hasn't claimed"

[osuka]

it feels like she's genuinely scrambling to find footing after being thrown a slight curveball, and if you're a PR with a result on vfp you don't do that

[osuka]

i never said she definitely gets shot, but point taken.

i mean you said she'd be not a very useful town PR cuz she'd get shot at night

but getting shot at night is pretty damn useful? helluva lot better than needing to use an elimination on them tbh

like i said, point taken. i'm not even voting asteria right now. let's go through the options here

1) asteria flips nea
VFP is conf-VT and there is a non-zero chance scum immediately seizes the opportunity to NK him because of that fact. we lose ~1 nea result and scum doesn't have to spend a NK to make it happen. the worst outcome, but not a terrible one if VFP lives. even if he dies, that's an extra day's worth of GS results/vig shots.

2) asteria flips scum
VFP is now all but confscum after the whole reaction test thing. we get 2 scum for the price of 1, which is a pretty damn good deal.

now what we have to decide is which of these 2 is the more likely outcome. i'm torn between them, but you guys are beginning to sway me towards viewing #1 as more plausible than i'd thought.

p-edit @koba why

i think that 2 is likely enough that asteria is a good exec today. i'll even go ahead and say that it's more likely than the first

[osuka]

it looks like that slot somehow managed to only make shit posts so far! those are not to be confused with shitposts, which are not shit.

This is my favorite post all game. Next time I try to be sarcastic, I hope I have the ingenuity to come up with something like this.

that's what i'm here for ;)

[osuka]

like, playing like "well if she is town, we know VFP town" I really feel like that's not the optimal plan here. ahhhhh

I disagree, actually. A Confirmed Town can be very useful. VFP’s contributions haven’t been great I mean they think I’m Scum for some reason but still.

the issue here is that if vfp is confirmed town, scum might just kill that slot and then that's pretty unfortunate, because we'd have to rely on n2 actions

[osuka]

@salsa, oh I'm pretty sure dragons is flipping town, but there was a big wagon on him so I wanted to see, like if anyone would quick vote STD while I had STD at E-1, and in the process VFP tried to create as much distance from STD as he could... but yeah, STD's slot is just complicated, I'm like too sure he's flipping town, it's great

Yeah, I'm suspicious about

VFP

too atm. Want to wagon him?

VOTE: VFP

as i said i dont think vfp is the kill for d1 but i'm definitely willing to listen

vfp really doesn't feel like a terrible choice. they have a scum read on greencrayons for, as far as i can tell, merely disagreeing with them re: humour being a problem. they distanced themself from the STD wagon for very shoddy reasons in 1577 as soon as people started talking about the likelihood of scum being on it, and have been doing a whole lot of nothing for... pages and pages now.

If Asteria is Town, and VFP is Town, I think I would look here. There were some posts at the end of the day that pinged me about Insidious and I was trying to figure out why I had that feeling and I don’t know, there’s something here.

lemons has been screaming town for all of d2 for me. elaborate?

[osuka]

okay so i posted that before i read the part where you did elaborate

d A D D Y

[osuka]

absolutely not, that's a brilliant scum claim and i've almost lost a game here because a _townie_ fakeclaimed another townie's role (i was scum) without confirmation that A. they were town, and B. they were the role they actually were. if that's possible with town aligned players, imagine what mafia can do with a fucking private thread

VOTE: asteria because this wagon needs to not die and i'm confident that slot flips red, then we get vfp tomorrow and it's basically game

[osuka]

like she claims nea that happens to be non-consecutive and happens to clear one of the scummiest slots in the game? get out of here

[osuka]

vfp looked so fucking confused too, he's like "uh she's lying" and then "oh yeah i'm vt for the record"

[osuka]

like town vfp doesn't do that. if they are ACTUALLY vt, they don't just go "oh yeah the neapolitan is lying... hahaha jk actually i'm vt that's totally my role right guys"

[osuka]

anya quickhammered on d1 we cant even trust that slot lets be real

and youre saying we can trust _you_? scum rb just staying on a claimed weak vig is awfully convenient isnt it?

[osuka]

i can finally reveal that i essentially

KNOW for a fact

that either Asteria or Koba or both are lying about having a gun

i veeery vaguely hinted at this in 3137 as well but apart from that my goal was to keep intentional PR-tells at a minimum because i really wanted to live long enough to use my one-shot. sorry i didn't hit something juicier but we now have one absolutely confirmed VT, and if we determine that asteria is lying we get VFP for free. i still think it's decently likely that they are scum covering for each other. it was a tough choice between pooky and VFP for my night action

doesnt rolecop return vanilla for mafia goon?

[osuka]

DkKoba [3]: Anya, Andresvmb, InsidiousLemons

Could just be an entire scum wagon here.

dude are you actively trying to say the wrongest shit possible

i'm really really really REALLY liking the idea of putting your head on the chopping block today

[osuka]

rise and shine maybe we should actually get a wolf today to mix things up. VOTE: DkKoba

rest well Andante

Yeah idk, 2 nights of no shot is suspicious. I was voting here but Koba is at E-2

andante was shot over asteria because asteria isnt even active on n2

kinda leaning towards voting koba because for me to believe their claim it would have to be a ungated roleblocker and a mafia doctor against a weak vig + informed gunsmith... and that's like looking pretty scumsided

Agree with the reason andante was shot over me. Also keep in mind how the guns have to work for Koba to have one. We have 3 for town which means scum can only have 1 gun. Doc and traitor both don't have guns but I think everything else scum does (which would be a roleblocker in this case). I'm still doubtful on that setup making sense. Also the roleblocker might not be ungated. If Koba tells the truth their shot could have landed on doc protected scum.

I'm pretty sure all scum are within Anya, Andre, Osuka, and Pooky.

If we decide against Koba today I'd be more than happy to go osuka.

I can’t see Asteria being Scum and voting them before tonight is certainly a bad idea

Just commenting on this to say I'm biased but agree. At least give me a chance to try to use my ability. I'll give info D4 if I'm alive and then you elim me because I really should not be alive

I doubt asteria is killed tonight

???

okay first thing's first. i am hardclaiming

town N2 rolecop

. crumbed it in the first word(s) of each line of this post:

n two

other quick points

-

role

claiming this messily after like 5 pages of softclaiming and floundering and confusion makes it pretty much unthinkable to me that andante is being anything but genuine here. my shaky but incredibly persistent gut townread had some merit to it all along dadgummit
-

cop

, mafia, vig, gunsmith, etc. all have guns. given the wide range of roles that can possess guns, i don't think focusing too hard on the total number before anyone at all has flipped is going to grant us any useful setup information. i still don't truly understand why you're so convinced a traitor must be in here. again, trackers do NOT have guns, so it doesn't tell us anything about the veracity of robert's claim. why didn't you bother to verify that before going down this road?

i had hoped to get this claim in at the very start of the day to avoid the appearance of picking a side with my night result, but the late daystart meant that i fell asleep before that could happen.


i checked

PookyTheMagicalBear

in hopes of identifying him as either traitor or doc. it felt more productive than attempting to sus out a town fakeclaim.

he is confirmed vanilla townie

.

I don't think Lemons is lying here because if he was he would either choose something different than a rolecop when we already have a nea, or he would be saying since he's a rolecop we probably wouldn't have a nea too and try to get me elimed. He's not doing either of these.

We know for fact that one of the claims is lying now. We have 4 guns claimed and 4 guns total. I don't think Lemons and Koba are both lying so I'm thinking we are dealing with a traitor. If one of them is lying I would bet Koba. Lemons is in a good position right now as scum and this would be a really risky move. Especially since if we do elim me or koba and find out they are town, Lemons would be in a very bad position.

first of all: havent we established that a weak vig hitting a protected mafia doc dies anyway?

second of all: your case on me is nonexistent and yours is a really quite sad attempt at a tunnel

[osuka]

We know for fact that one of the claims is lying now. We have 4 guns claimed and 4 guns total. I don't think Lemons and Koba are both lying so I'm thinking we are dealing with a traitor. If one of them is lying I would bet Koba. Lemons is in a good position right now as scum and this would be a really risky move. Especially since if we do elim me or koba and find out they are town, Lemons would be in a very bad position.

i'm willing to call this a scumslip. in trying to curry favour by defending players she knows to be town, scum!asteria has revealed that she is mentally counting herself as armed mafioso rather than as her real claim. town!asteria does not believe that koba and i are both telling the truth, because to believe so necessitates the belief that none of the mafia are armed. and we know she didn't just miss the andante flip because she directly quotes anya's "rip andante" message earlier in the same post.

sound reasonable to anyone else?

doesn't nea have a gun?

[osuka]

Anya is going to be the best lim here as scum Lemon's makes a claim like that to ensure Anya is safe. Meaning Anya is something important to scum.
I'm thinking Lemons is actually the traitor here.

???????????

how the fuck does lemons claim protect anya?

[osuka]

i'm willing to call this a scumslip. in trying to curry favour by defending players she knows to be town, scum!asteria has revealed that she is mentally counting herself as armed mafioso rather than as her real claim. town!asteria does not believe that koba and i are both telling the truth, because to believe so necessitates the belief that none of the mafia are armed. and we know she didn't just miss the andante flip because she directly quotes anya's "rip andante" message earlier in the same post.

I’m not following this logic at all. Walk me through it like I was a child.

we have 4 gunned PR claims:
- Andante as gunsmith (confirmed)
- Asteria as neapolitan (unconfirmed)
- DK as weak vig (unconfirmed)
- me as role cop (unconfirmed)

knowing that we have 4 guns in play, the possibilities are:

- Andante + 2 gunned mafia + {Asteria, Dk, or me}
- Andante + 1 gunned mafioso + {Asteria and Dk, Asteria and me, or Dk and me)

Asteria is approaching this from the perspective that 2 people are telling the truth, which puts us in the second scenario. she asserts that these 2 people are myself and Dk, which would make

asteria herself the liar.

what sense does it make for a real Neapolitan to make this mistake? did she forget what was in her role PM? did she forget that andante died? not likely. what's more plausible to me is that, because

in her own mind

she is already accounted for as the gunned mafioso, she forgot to account for herself again in the PR pool.

it is impossible for nea!asteria to believe that Dk and I are both telling the truth, because that theory refutes her own claim.

the only way for this to have happened is by a massive blunder of logic, and the explanation for that blunfer that makes the most sense to me is that asteria forgot to account for herself in the PR claims.

oh yeah i didnt notice that. good catch

it's almost as if ive been saying that slot is scum. that sounds familiar to me but i can't figure out why for the life of me

[osuka]

I think VFP is acting boldly and assertively because they have this to fall back on. But c’mon, Anya? No. That’s absurd. Trying to push it away from Asteria and Koba is blatantly Scummy.

Why wouldn't I push it away if I believe they are town.
Setup wise you're the one lying here for me.

No I was wrong you’re right. You supposedly came back “Vanilla Town”. Which you’ve hard claimed. So no ignore that.

mafia goon comes back as vanilla, hello? he claimed _role_cop, not alignment cop

[osuka]

@osuka I would appreciate some thoughts from you please.

sorry been working, my hours are all over the place

[osuka]

Roles like this should return full names (e.g. Bulletproof Traitor) to a Role Cop investigating them.

And in fact, a Role Cop that is Town aligned would have a huge incentive to ensure one of the PRs is correct. A Scum Role Cop however wants to find the Traitor. And if Pooky is the Traitor, they are signaling to them that they know.

Okay, how about this for a solve? {Anya, Insidious, Pooky}, with Pooky as the Traitor?

oh actually that's an excellent point

outside of the claim, do you have reason to believe lemons is scum?

[osuka]

i also crumbed literally 700 posts before you even entered the game so shut the entire fuck up

p-edit yeah, sure. but don't you think it's more likely that my claim is genuine than that both Dk's and Asteria's are?

you also crumbed/softed backup gs. gtfo

(I was looking for crumbs when looking for a shot, i was looking for people who either didnt crumb or people who crumbed multiple roles, like lemon)

can you show where the backup crumbs were

[osuka]

@vfp what is the partner equity you see between myself and anya? or are you going based off of individual reads on each of us?

Anya is obvious scum.
Your claim feels out of place and looks to be preventing an Anya lim or a decent wagon growing.

Out of all of the claims I think yours is the worst with results.
Plus the fact I said earlier that your posting was not town mind with a PR gun.

again - how does the rolecop claim protect anya?

[osuka]

if we have a vig who isn't koba they should've counterclaimed by now right?

i would certainly hope so

if we have a vig who isn't koba, why haven't we had any nights with >1 nks?

[osuka]

Ok, I don't understand the mechanics being discussed in relation to the scum doctors and guns, so I need someone to summarize the claims and results in a simplified way.

Also: I'm a town one-shot detective who got a negative result on Pooky during the N1 (he didn't try to kill anyone that night).

This may be useful for the setup spec ^

im sorry what the fuck?????

[osuka]

first of all: read the fucking thread or come with a specific question, i don't have the time or effort to explain the whole game to you

secondly, what the fuck? detective doesn't fit in the setup and frankly if your slot was detective, AND if you're one-shot (so youre not too worried about being the top priority night kill), why the fuck did that not come up when we had a million people claim gun roles?

[osuka]

what the fuck is this game

[osuka]

anya and osuka nowhere to be seen

i literally worked until 2 am last night, fuck off

[osuka]

by the way im vt

[osuka]

anya quickhammered on d1 we cant even trust that slot lets be real

and youre saying we can trust _you_? scum rb just staying on a claimed weak vig is awfully convenient isnt it?

how convenient of you to just show up just as talk of my elim starts back up

imagine thinking i dont work 50+ hours a week because two thirds of my team is 13 time zones away and in fucking china

[osuka]

how does lemons know i am a vanilla townie !?!?

more importantly: how the fuck did you not realize that lemons clearing you as vanilla _townie_ was extremely strange?

[osuka]

how does lemons know i am a vanilla townie !?!?

this is the stupidest technicality ever
my result returned was "vanilla" and by process of elimination you had to be townie because you're unarmed, therefore confirmed VT

so your claim comes out with information that is not part of your check, but is presented as if it were

there are three scenarios here:
1. you got a vanilla result and you know he's town-aligned because you're scum and you know he's neither the traitor (assuming there is one), nor in your pt;
2. you got no result at all, but you know he _should be_ vt because he doesn't have a gun and you know he's town-aligned because he's not in your pt, or;
3. you got a vanilla result and you assume he's town-aligned because you trust the other pr claims + results.

second one only works if there is no traitor but scum has that information, and somehow i dont see you simultaneously just assuming asteria's claim is true AND presenting that information in the way you did without pointing that out

[osuka]

anya and osuka nowhere to be seen

i literally worked until 2 am last night, fuck off

fake mad lmfao

it's just annoying to have to justify why i don't live in the thread to people who don't know the kind of shitshow that is my schedule every day

[osuka]

anya and osuka nowhere to be seen

i literally worked until 2 am last night, fuck off

fake mad lmfao

Give Osuka credit, he needs to make the catch up look realistic and useful bless him.

you can fuck off as well, since as previously established, the only reason you're not the slot who has contributed the least amount of intelligent material to the thread is T3

[osuka]

how does lemons know i am a vanilla townie !?!?

more importantly: how the fuck did you not realize that lemons clearing you as vanilla _townie_ was extremely strange?

you gotta be scum or brain-dead to make this point because i know you know andante cleared pooky as unarmed

i understand the logic, but i'm having trouble wrapping my head around why town lemons trusts the claim and result and says what was said in the way that it was said without pointing that out

[osuka]

andante was the one who cleared pooky. not Asteria. and andante is conftown because she's literally dead

wait i might have them mixed up

i have been confusing the two slots for a while and if i just did it again then that means my whole train of thought is derailed

please hold

[osuka]

andante was the one who cleared pooky. not Asteria. and andante is conftown because she's literally dead

I'm not sure why this is the part in question here.

no like if that's the case then i just fucked up fairly badly and the game state isn't what i thought it was

[osuka]

you can fuck off as well, since as previously established, the only reason you're not the slot who has contributed the least amount of intelligent material to the thread is T3

Oops I think I hit a scum nerve :)
Let's calm it down a bit, don't get over whelmed before your juicer goes live.

i'm not gonna make too much fun of you because i would feel bad, armed with the knowledge that life is probably already hard enough for someone of your wit

[osuka]

okay so andante clears pooky as having no gun, then lemons comes out and clears him as vanilla - other than the intent to catch a scum doctor, which they mentioned, i cant think of a reason that would be.

i think lemons scum has to come with pooky scum here?

[osuka]

I do not believe that Osuka confused Andante with asteria given how much of a song and dance Osuka has made over it.

believe what you want, you're quite literally incapable of making a case to a stunning degree so really i already know ahead of time nothing useful is coming out of your slot. feel free to try

[osuka]

i'm not gonna make too much fun of you because i would feel bad, armed with the knowledge that life is probably already hard enough for someone of your wit

I see your come backs are just as weak as your catch ups.
Bless you for trying, I guess. :)

have at it, i'm constrained because i've been warned several times for having said uncomfortable truths about other players' mental acuity and i don't want to be force-replaced because that would make datisi sad, so i'm just gonna leave my beliefs about you strongly implied

[osuka]

daddy

[osuka]

I do not believe that Osuka confused Andante with asteria given how much of a song and dance Osuka has made over it.

believe what you want, you're quite literally incapable of making a case to a stunning degree so really i already know ahead of time nothing useful is coming out of your slot. feel free to try

Nothing comes out of my slot, says the juicer who if town can't read simple claims. :)
Reliable source, glad your input has changed nothing that has been said by everyone.

when has your input ever changed anything? i'm almost convinced that if you're town, you're not even playing wincon because this is truly the saddest attempt at scumhunting i've seen in a long time. your posts are nearly universally completely worthless

[osuka]

when has your input ever changed anything? i'm almost convinced that if you're town, you're not even playing wincon because this is truly the saddest attempt at scumhunting i've seen in a long time. your posts are nearly universally completely worthless

I think I upset Osuka here.
That's seems easy though, you just need to call them out. :)

I suggest you take a 5min walk around the block and when you are calm you can join us in a conversation.

if i were truly tilted i wouldn't be posting. you're just fucking annoying

[osuka]

I mean, who the fucks think that Neo says someone is armed or not? :lol:

andante was the fucking gunsmith? are you dense?

[osuka]

if i were truly tilted i wouldn't be posting. you're just fucking annoying

No I can tell that you are tilted here.
Probably because I'm saying you're high on the scum list outside the PR claims.
And as a typical angry caught scum player you don't know how to present yourself.

first of all, go read whatever previous games i rolled scum in and youll see i can behave when i "get caught". secondly, even in a world where im scum, you couldn't catch me - you dont have a case, you wont have a case, and yet you pretend to have a case because i guess that works well enough in the fucking newbie queue

again, if i were tilted i would be doing something else. i find it extremely frustrating to have to repeatedly point out that your push on me has zero substance and that the points you make are just about the dumbest shit anyones said in the thread. your gameplay is like a bottomless pit and it truly really feels like we're close to the bottom

[osuka]

I mean, who the fucks think that Neo says someone is armed or not? :lol:

andante was the fucking gunsmith? are you dense?

Oh you got it, well done! :lol:

youre trying to make me look stupid but it's not me that's the dumbass. what is your point?

[osuka]

can we get a list together of who outside of these players hasn't claimed? i think we're missing one or two

[osuka]

i claimed, pooky claimed, andres claimed. did anya ever claim?

[osuka]

cool i missed that one

i'm torn here on whether there are 1 or 2 scum with guns. why are we saying 2 scum with guns is more likely?

[osuka]

A not very popular explanation would be if there was only one scum between the claims and we were forcing scumreads on town slots, creating the feeling that we are not being able to find out who is scum (considering that we're scumhunting for 2~3 where there is just 1).

yea i kind of have paranoid pangs in my gut that what happened was:

Andante was informed that there are Four

Other

Players with guns in the game.

and she misread it.

I'd rather lose because of that than lose because we decided to not listen to her info.

so let's just assume we are in a 4 gun world and there are minimum 2 wolves in the 4Gun-Pool

i think that we should go with "there are 4 players _total_ with guns. i'm pretty sure she phrased it like that in the past and frankly if my role pm had ambiguous information like that i would ask the mod about it. i think it's safe to assume she had it right

[osuka]

(assumed VT)?

did you happen to catch the many times this was disproven or were you too busy "juicin"

also: will it help if i ask what your case is on osuka from an outside perspective? because i'm looking and i still don't really understand why you're so convinced he's scum. you've had a hard scumread on him since, like, page 7 or something. there was the bit about how you didn't understand/see merit in some of his posts early on (editor's note: 1835) and how he was being caustic -- i agree he was unnecessarily hostile in response to a simple request for clarification, but toxicity isn't really AI to me.

249 is you saying "i'm gonna tunnel you without regard for your good posts, only your mistakes" which is. literally just what scum do

you ask about where osuka is directly engaging with players but he's been doing that all game so that doesn't really apply anymore

your scumpool in 642 is 3 conftown and osuka, 2 of whom are now dead which is. interesting

this is just turning into an iso skim now but you get the point

everything past this point just seems to be inflammatory insults from both sides and a restatement of the assertion that osuka is "doing nothing" and being "a juicer". what is your case? are you just keeping your promises from 249? i'm not trying to ask this in bad faith but i'm having a hard time thinking you're actually looking at this player's post history objectively

I'm not sure what you assuming VT there from a Vanilla read is bad for? You got a Vanilla read and assumed VT. Thats not wrong, that's exactly what happened to what you're claiming. If I was a rolecop with that result on a GS I would also do the same.
I'm also not disputing that Pooky is VT and I clearly said I trust VT is cleared (even though a scum you means not cleared, but I'll still go with town then anyway).

And why do I still think Osuka can be scum?
Let me explain this simply.

The 3rd scum are going to be with Anya, Osuka, and Andre.
I think Anya is scum. I think Andre looks more town after discussion today. If Anya is town, that means Osuka is scum.
I'm surprised that you spent the time to try and debunk this.

And concerning Osuka, my read changed to town majority. You are taking an early post as your argument here, when I'm pretty sure I've said several times that my read changed on Osuka through out the game.

so you townread me, but i'm _still_ in your poe? how do you put the two together? they're completely dissonant

[osuka]

@Everyone voting me: of all the claims so far besides maybe Koba, I'm the one scum want to NK. Just leave me for scum to get

this is sad

[osuka]

After a third reread, I'm comfortable with this vote:

VOTE: Asteria

Why are you actively ignoring that I'm the logical NK tonight?

VOTE: Asteria

I guess I have to say the same to you too

i would love to hear why the fuck you think youre the logical nk tonight

[osuka]

i think i want asteria today, but if you all think that's insane i'm willing to listen. i would be happy with a vfp exec here

[osuka]

i think i want asteria today, but if you all think that's insane i'm willing to listen. i would be happy with a vfp exec here

I still can't see how anyone would ever consider you as a serious player when all game you have just said lets lim VFP, even though there's a VT result claim on me.
It really shows the level of Mafia games these days. I feel it doesn't get better from here either.

my apologies - it seems that while writing that post, i forgot the fact that you're incapable of inference

if asteria is scum, which i think is likely to be the case, you're not cleared. you are, in fact, mechanically, an objectively better execution than asteria because your flip strongly suggests asteria's alignment, and we don't risk killing a possible tpr

[osuka]

i think i want asteria today, but if you all think that's insane i'm willing to listen. i would be happy with a vfp exec here

I still can't see how anyone would ever consider you as a serious player when all game you have just said lets lim VFP, even though there's a VT result claim on me.
It really shows the level of Mafia games these days. I feel it doesn't get better from here either.

my apologies - it seems that while writing that post, i forgot the fact that you're incapable of inference

if asteria is scum, which i think is likely to be the case, you're not cleared. you are, in fact, mechanically, an objectively better execution than asteria because your flip strongly suggests asteria's alignment, and we don't risk killing a possible tpr

Wheres your asteria vote then?

can you not read?

[osuka]

but sure you've got a point
VOTE: vfp

[osuka]

As a whole Dk feels like the right option here as they are linked 3 of 4 to be scum.

you have dk paired with 3 other possible scum. doesn't that make it the worst elimination in terms of information gain, since the entropy is only minimally decreased? if you have a lemons flip, for example, then your pool is smaller than it would be if you had a koba flip. how did you get to this point in your thought process?

@Pooky / Anya / Osuka / Andre

Can you confirm your 2 favoured scum PRs?

asteria and clidd

[osuka]

Oh, and just to contextualize my activity level, I can vary a lot in the sense of effort from game to game. It's conscious.

Not that I necessarily get tired, but I like to approach games in different ways. It isn't AI.

scumposting

[osuka]

I think that Lemon's wallpost was potentially emulated from an informed perspective that tried to show itself as uninformed. I don't sympathize with the thought process.

elaborate

he says a lot of what i've been saying since like the third page, but then again he's also been saying most of that since the third page. we've largely agreed and that's not why i think you're much more likely to be scum than lemons here. can you point to examples of what you think is a fabricated thought process?

[osuka]

Oh, and just to contextualize my activity level, I can vary a lot in the sense of effort from game to game. It's conscious.

Not that I necessarily get tired, but I like to approach games in different ways. It isn't AI.

scumposting

And no, that's not scumposting.

it is and it is quite sad, really

why the self-meta? what does that accomplish? you're casually going like "oh yeah by the way..." and pointing out that you're acutely aware of your own play patterns, which is not something that is kept in front of your mind if you're town

[osuka]

osuka r u ok with lemons elim?

not really, i think that slot flips green. you’re much better at the mech aspect than i am but all things considered i think lemons is town here

[osuka]

i would much rather see clidd flip than lemons

[osuka]

you have dk paired with 3 other possible scum. doesn't that make it the worst elimination in terms of information gain, since the entropy is only minimally decreased? if you have a lemons flip, for example, then your pool is smaller than it would be if you had a koba flip. how did you get to this point in your thought process?

I was purely talking about flipping scum.
I've made it clear that I want to lim in between the PRs not.VT.
Please read properly in the future is saves a lot of time.

youve made it clear you want to flip prs, but lemons is in the pr claim pool. is your brain short-circuiting? if you meant something else by either post, then please write properly in the future since it does indeed save a lot of time

[osuka]

I think I actually go Clidd here.
I was to the idea Lemons was the town of the 2 until that wierd comment but my gut is just saying Clidd is scum here.

VOTE: Clidd
Thats E1

you had lemons as town, but he's in half your possible combinations of scum in the pr claims? what?

[osuka]

The change of instance of Dk on Anya is a bit radical, but not necessarily scummy, maybe town "omgusing". Anya has reflected me as generic town for a while due to the organic way of posting, but I would not rule out the chance of scum!she, although I would also had to

force my mind to accept that Osuka and Andres are both town

to accept such scenario.

pedit: I can vote there too.

you may have said this already, but can you explain why you're so confident that Osuka v Andres is svt?

soft misrep? "force my mind" seems like it might imply that but in light of 3940 and 3941, it just seems like clidd has andres and me in his scum pool

[osuka]

Osuka was implying I favour a Dk lim. That's the key word here, implying. Show me at any point where I say that. Because I can show you where I say the opposite.

As a whole Dk feels like the right option here as they are linked 3 of 4 to be scum.

[osuka]

this calls for a blast from the past

this is amateur hour

[osuka]

i have solved the game

{asteria, clidd, vfp} in alphabetical order because i'm weird like that

[osuka]

i want to vote clidd but i dont know what the vote count is at and i dont wanna hammer, so as soon as i see a new vc from

daddy

datisi ill vote that slot, but i'd be equally happy with an asteria flashtrain

[osuka]

To be honest I lost motivation with asteria flipping town and was hoping to be the NK.

well you better get that motivation back because her flip basically clears you so i’ve been wrong all along

[osuka]

if i were scum i would kill pooky there, its a better choice in all cases bc pooky is very active and pushes gamestate forward.

but overall i would kill in pooky/vfp

kill in pooky/vfp is obvious to me because those are the two mechanically confirmed slots. i’m not sure why that’s a discussion

[osuka]

are you folks seriously thinking that there’s a setup with a mafia doctor and only mafia aligned killing roles?

[osuka]

let the record show that i want to vote clidd here but i won’t in the interest of not instantly losing the game in the ever so improbable case that im wrong again

[osuka]

you and clidd are confscum fmpov.

i'm not really scared of a clidd quick/miselim, since it's pretty much unthinkable to me that he's town given the circumstances

Be careful, you are forgetting the intensity of your previous instance. When emulating a perspective as scum it's important to write down exactly what you should and should not be aware of. If I were in a better position, I would immediately have identified a perspective slip and you would lose the advantage you have acquired so far (this is a tip for your scumgame, btw). Confscum is confscum and not "unthinkable".

do you _want_ me to vote you?

[osuka]

Anya is like on god level of solving if town (which I do think that she is).

saddest pocketing attempt in over 4000 posts

you did it

[osuka]

It's not my wish, what gave you such idea?

it's like you're trying as hard as you can to be as scummy as possible

[osuka]

andres, isn't clidd + anya a possible scum team? why are you discarding clidd scum?

[osuka]

VOTE: insidiouslemons

[osuka]

sorry andres

[osuka]

gg

[osuka]

im reading the mod thread and im crying

[osuka]

i was planning on making a post here that would be a collection of some osuka posts, and i'd call it "osuka being iconic in rotitgbsmod", but i just realized i would have to quote his entire iso

[osuka]

osuka koba and anya were from my pov the most scummy three players in the game and i should have just ignored the mech and yeeted them all on dayplay alone but instead I made decisions based on mech and lost badly.

I should have no expectations for game balance

The NRG has a history of trolling the shit out of their players so there is definitely a possibility of a game being run with no town vig and a pre-announced mafia doctor

[osuka]

3 MAFIA DOCTORS... WHAAAAAT

look that was my reaction but it happened in pregame

[osuka]

@datisi can i quote myself from scum pt before it's released

[osuka]

if osuka is scum here he is a force to be reckoned with and kinda has this game on lock so far.

ell oh ell

just to clarify i really don't think the scum victory was solely attributable to the setup, y'all did play very well

good job koba u handled the vig claim and ensuing fake frustration masterfully

@lemons from scum pt

in other news

though fwiw if osuka is scum here he is a force to be reckoned with and kinda has this game on lock so far.

[osuka]

as hard as i find it to believe that we're in a +mafdoc -vig universe, i find it even harder to believe that datisi would play such a cruel joke on us as giving us a gunsmith with no armed mafia. i'd rather lose based on the assumption that he wouldn't stoop to such levels than eat ourselves in a paranoid frenzy.

this also cracked me up

[osuka]

it's certainly thought-provoking, and there were definitely points where i was leaning towards "fuck the mechanics we should only be focusing on dayplay." town does hage a lot of firepower, but with such a mountain of WIFOM possibilities to sort through (# of unarmed scum, trustworthiness of a vig claim, etc) it feels a bit like giving a blind toddler a shotgun. i do think if we had caught one scum early we'd have been in a much better, maybe even town-favour position. town just needed that one flip to start peeling away the edges and we never got it. if nothing else this has definitely taught me that play-based voting reigns supreme on this godless website of lies and deception

@osuka fuck you you pinged me multiple times but i ignored it because the moments where you had me, you really had me

hah that's funny

what did i do to ping you? i can tell you i didnt feel threatened at any point in time during this game, like my head was never on the chopping block

[osuka]

i like the concept behind the setup though. it's adding another layer of misdirection that i think is very welcome in mafia

[osuka]

it's the setup designers job to come up with some clinical, certifiable shit and it's the nrg's job to make sure it's something resembling playable

if you don't think this setup was playable (and i'm biased because i had info town didnt), that's squarely on the nrg