Mini 2206 - Deja Vu: Perpetual MELO IV - END!

[Kismet]

i'm not sure why 593 i

s more likely to be

an S-S interaction in a bubble

better?

[Kismet]

i like cakez on this page

[Kismet]

i can see town-cakez easily making the argument that your jump off flipped scum because of some cursory amount of effort on his part onto himself and then eventually onto flipped town as scummy, considering the NM flip as it is.

[Kismet]

I feel like the NM flip implies that traditional wagon analysis is a trap i'm being coaxed to fall into

jokes on you i don't know how to fucking do that to begin with

[Kismet]

i need to go thru salsa iso a bit more.

I just realized I didn't share my read-list....

Good group:

Kismet

,

Venus Fly Trap

Re-evaluate group:

Nachomamma8

,

SirCakez

,

Infinity 324

Null group:

Not_Mafia

,

Momrangal

,

notscience

,

The Bulge

Bad group:

Leafeon and Glaceon

,

Disaster Cartel

having a hard time seeing S/S salsa-prism/DC here. Salsa was totally cool w/ voting DC a bunch, but never went near L&G despite having them here.

[Kismet]

i hate this game

[Kismet]

help

[Kismet]

mara you think both parties involved on the blitz onto bulge at the end are town?

[Kismet]

prism what happened to you being really sure ydrasse was scum at the end of yesterday

[Kismet]

and then the last tier i think is the best bet for hitting scum, and i think there's at least one, probably two, in there
i actually like sircakez out of all of them the best: i like his entrance today, he's p persistantly pushed for nm yesterday, and he also has anti-partner associatives with l/g
i still think mom is scummy, and am just not convinced by any of the reasons presented for townreading her
and i utterly hate everything prism has done since/including the hammer

why all this qualification on cakez? why not just move him up a tier?

[Kismet]

now you're kinda saying that isn't a prototypical scumgame?

It's not and I don't even know what a typical scumgame of mine would be, most of my recent ones are really small. Though I think the way I played d1 in panic room is a decent representation of how I play d1s as scum

I'm not really sure how to respond to you saying it's less conviction than you'd expect me to have as scum, it felt like more conviction to me. Maybe we're defining conviction differently

this isn't helping me stave off paranoia and i request you change tack if you can

why the flip from iverson onto dc?

[Kismet]

i gotta say cakez 2800 hit me in the townfeels

[Kismet]

ut feels so much like tthe case here

why?

[Kismet]

instead of "the right amount of scummy to be scum"

[Kismet]

I still feel like iverson and salsa have been towny on play, I mostly voted iverson to try to get an explanation on the hammer

and you found this satisfactory?

[Kismet]

Watching as town fucks themselves over, and watching them willingly self destruct with slight budges in that direction?

don't understand this, sorry

[Kismet]

you're in a hydra and i'm not arsed to ISO everything and figure out what's you and what isn't at this point.

[Kismet]

No but he's still less scummy than DC

why?

[Kismet]

counterthread: skitter what is so blazingly town about mena that he is occupying the same tier as me atm?

[Kismet]

like he hasn't even fucking graced the game with his presence for like a fucking week

[Kismet]

Mena has been pushing NM all of yesterday with me.

so has cakez

[Kismet]

skitter if you're scum here you're just fucking killing it

[Kismet]

I should still sheep your notsci read right bork?

if noddy is scum he's playing the game of his life in presence and he's basically ruined my tonal read on him for all time.
the reason i feel that i have to qualify that is that his hop off nm yesterday looks objectively pretty bad.

[Kismet]

yes i think noddy is town though.

[Kismet]

i'm not vibing shit. i'm vibing a beacon of town fucking taking this mantle off my failure-ridden shoulders.

[Kismet]

pedit i think he's got some irl stuff going on. that bit i don't think is ai

yeah i mean if this is the case i guess it's plausible he thought he was getting what he wanted and went into maintenance mode

[Kismet]

i haven't exactly had a higher accuracy-rate here than you

although as i right this out maybe you mean notsci?

wasn't necessarily thinking of any one person here.

[Kismet]

i'm gonna take a break because i'm getting neurotic

remember that 2 town votes on town is quickhammer range at this point.

[Kismet]

tonight i plan to get rip roaring hammered and probably not play mafia either

i'm gonna take mostly a break after this game too but if anyone in this game wants to hydra at some point i'd really be interested in that as kind of a side game.

[Kismet]

Bork we should def to that at some point

yes!

[Kismet]

tonight i plan to get rip roaring hammered and probably not play mafia either

i'm gonna take mostly a break after this game too but if anyone in this game wants to hydra at some point i'd really be interested in that as kind of a side game.

I wouldn't bringing back Purpkin

i miss purpkin

[Kismet]

Makes it clear he didn't see any town motivation when he thought about it earlier, but now that I have pushed him, and he's scumreading me for it, now that skepticism is worth bringing up. I think a logically complete response would be that this fits with the "Iverson is ???" opener, but this isn't the point of contention between us at the moment.

you are asserting this is because you pushed him, which i don't think there is really any evidence for

[Kismet]

what do you want dude

in fact the fact that this post exists at all suggest the above isn't the case

[Kismet]

While I am willing to gladiate, I will gladly help you run up my scum partners if you agree on them.

this just rubs me all sorts of the wrong way considering the current gamestate and i just have a hard time seeing a town player want to work w/ someone they think is scum when even one misstep is instaloss

[Kismet]

i think prism is scum and is angling to win on a different day. it's one thing to i guess give up and be fatalistic w/ all this "i want you to vote me regardless of alignment", but if he's scum it's not fatalism, it's strategy

VOTE: iverson

[Kismet]

you are asserting this is because you pushed him, which i don't think there is really any evidence for

...

you misunderstand, it feels like you are saying his whole demeanor changed on you because you started pushing him, and i really do not think that is the case

separate from that i do not see how his opening on you today really displays a change in tone from the start to where we ended up

[Kismet]

This is going to be read as a confessional but I really can't resist.

There are several issues with me being scum here, but hypothetically my start today would have been intentionally scummy with the goal of looping in this narrative of a playstyle shift later. I'm very attuned to the power of narratives and am very intentional about leveraging them as scum. I start out getting a handle on the table, but at a certain point I develop a preternatural instinct for what will be townread, when, and to what extent by the players in the table. The daystart is something I have pulled out all the time as Iverson and I am acutely aware that the hyperaggression gets scumread.

The goal of today would have been to start out hitting hard either to distance or to specifically work with the town player I was attacking, and to leverage that narrative of a playstyle switch to swing it back and seal a 3-0 shutout. I am never going deep in this table and it does not matter who the other 2 scum are, I would clearly be last priority.

i'm just ignoring this as you're perfectly capable of making this post as either alignment

[Kismet]

There are several issues with me being scum here

what are these issues?

[Kismet]

additionally: why were you so sure ydrasse was scum eod yesterday and then went nowhere w/ that today?

[Kismet]

All of that said, I am legitimately town, and the playstyle shift is because, as mentioned previously, hyperaggression for its own sake without caring that I would wind up getting voted was silly and unfair to the other town, even if it's their responsibility to read me correctly.

as an aside this really isn't contributing to my read and in fact you felt more aggressive in 2181 then you do here

[Kismet]

It was dependent on her seeing town blitz on scum, ie. Bulge flipping red.

i don't understand why, i guess

[Kismet]

there may yet be time for unvote.

i do not know.

[Kismet]

Yeah that's kinda what I mean, normally strong scum will set themselves up to have stronger arguments later on, especially if they're doing something that's anti-town on it's face, rather than relying on "it would be dumb to do x as scum", I don't think you'd think that would be effective.

your team is what at this point? DC/Mom/??

[Kismet]

ugh is it possible i just totally fucking whiffed on infinity

i don't want to start there regardless but the early game interaction w/ l&g perhaps suggests i should eventually

[Kismet]

oh god you are actually bothering to try and partner hunt for me you sad sad soul

what does this have to do w/ you?

[Kismet]

like jesus

[Kismet]

if you are town making 2997 i just have no idea what the hell

[Kismet]

"infinity is town and her not voting me isn't +scum"

i never said it was

[Kismet]

(really i never explained anything about why i made that post but here we are)

[Kismet]

I'm going to get less sympathetic and more vicious if I actually respond to that. If you're upset with me butting into your process I'm sorry, I think the timing shows why I thought that even if it was wrong.

i'm not upset, and if you feel the need to get vicious (although i don't see why we're at this point) then feel free? this isn't going to go how 2181 went for obvious reasons.

[Kismet]

Ok.

[Kismet]

at the very core of it i'm possibly just getting paranoid, but i see an inkling of infinity shuffling reads and not reevaluating the gamestate which to me is suspicious. would welcome noddy/VFT/DC opinion on this as at times as i think you've been +scum on her at times where i haven't. Bulge flipping town probably warrants me reexamining that whole deal too.

in contrast, Prism if you've got a good "this is why infinity is town to me" sense right now too I'm happy to look at it.

Prism I am not dealing with you in a way that is throwing you away in my scum pile and positioning every future interaction w/ you as a way to get your partners. I feel like that should be obvious from my demeanor, but if I need to unvote to get you to get past that, then I am willing to. If you're town you're a huge asset to me.

[Kismet]

while actively rejecting every read I have given all game

i don't understand how i've done this

[Kismet]

i've never had an interaction w/ anyone quite like this one and i don't know what to make of it

[Kismet]

You say that but are literally still voting me, which presumably means you are prepared to end the game with this guess.

i guess - how should i, as a rule, interact w/ someone in a gamestate that is basically going nowhere who happens to be the person i suspect most at the current moment, but obviously still have a ton of reservations about the quality of my reads as a whole.

because if there's a better way of dealing with it that's not going to involve a repeat of yesterday i'm absolutely open to it.

(this question is to everyone, really. i don't know what to do at this point)

[Kismet]

DC has been mostly pinpoint on L&G (scum), NM (scum), and Mara (who you also think is scum) and Mena has been pretty ok to me since early D1.

You were on Iverson but swapped off him for 2779 and I don't get what you saw there (and you even made 2782 later)

[Kismet]

DC gets very little credit for voting NM since the slot voted bulge in the end.

i suppose that's true, although this would hold more weight w/ me if the slot were not a hydra.

[Kismet]

I just can't see an agenda to his play.

if there is one right now it's to keep me off balance, but I will freely admit I can't reliably discern between that and genuine frustration other than I don't really feel I'm being all that combative w/ Prism (although maybe objectively i am coming off differently to others, esp wrt the vote)

[Kismet]

ydra coming in and kinda soft townreading prism is interesting, as i don't think there are that many other places for today to go if not that slot

[Kismet]

UNVOTE: let's just do this for now. stuff happened and i'm not sure it was worth anything when all is said and done.

[Kismet]

i think cakez and nm are the two scummiest slots in the game rn

i like vft/nacho/kismet to varying degrees

i have also kind of disliked infinity's push on us - there was this one part where she repeated some of the stuff i mentioned being the reasoning for me being low motivation that just felt odd

~leaf

Infinity feels really town to me.
Unless they are very good at faking being confused and struggling to articulate reads :V

~Glaceon

i think infinity is town

i think nm actively avoiding creating content and catching zero heat for it makes him very likely scum

~leaf

trying to figure out what in here constitutes being afraid of Infinity

even that first townread is fairly hedged

[Kismet]

Why does scum!salsa keep flipflopping on her nacho read during her catch-up?

i don't feel this is AI? why wouldn't scum want to show progression on slots based on content from a catch up?

[Kismet]

it would be one thing if you said "why does salsa flip flop on nacho apropos of nothing"
because that might imply the impetus was "independent reeval" which i agree might be a towntell
but here she's just digesting more and more content over a short period of time, so she's just going to react based on what she reads - that is your impetus, and to me that seems null.

[Kismet]

prism still seems wrong to me =/

telling vft/cakez to "please vote me" and then reacting as he did when i do, and i just feel manipulated

[Kismet]

I don't know why she goes through that

...to get townread by people?

[Kismet]

Yeah, but there's also an element of "this might look scummy" that might discourage her from flip flopping. It's hard to evaluate in an unbiased way "hmm I probably would be flip flopping as town here" and it's easier to just be consistent imo

hard to say here, depends on the value she personally puts on [consistency vs emoting genuinely]. It's still not doing much for me either way.

[Kismet]

I'm aware nacho thought things about people in this game, yes.

[Kismet]

ok. probably not much more i can do w/ that right now.

[Kismet]

there's one other option here that i hate to even consider and it's that my noddy read is wrong, because the switch off nm early D2 needs to be explained somehow

this is the shit that happens when you're down 2-0 i hope everyone's happy

[Kismet]

Not_Mafia (4): Infinity 324, Iverson, Disaster Cartel, SirCakez

Not_Mafia (4): Infinity 324, Disaster Cartel, SirCakez, Iverson
SirCakez (1): notscience

The Bulge (3): Venus Fly Trap, notscience, Infinity 324
Not_Mafia (3): Disaster Cartel, SirCakez, Iverson

The Bulge (3): Venus Fly Trap, notscience, Iverson
Not_Mafia (2): Disaster Cartel, SirCakez

[Kismet]

would be fucking ballsy for noddy to have made that arrangement w/ mena to go after NM w/ that first wagon as it was and then to go after cakez. Like it has scum motivation to do if cakez is town (maybe even if he's scum) but man I feel scum noddy just fucking hardbusses there and licks his wounds.

[Kismet]

i mean the person that most implicates is _me_ imo

[Kismet]

i mean, it's not _why_ i voted there, but if you have reason to think anyone did, that'd probably be the vote you'd look at. If ydrasse is scum it's much more likely that my vote just made it possible to achieve and therefore voted then.

[Kismet]

which, i mean, isn't a bad point either. but it's just the perfect amount of hydra dissonance to be believeable i guess. mena doing the same gets looked at much less favorably.

[Kismet]

I think this game is lost

=/

[Kismet]

is this what losing looks like

[Kismet]

that's 3 on DC

[Kismet]

1499 could be S/S peta/DC i guess (giving a town pass that DC doesn't deserve here).

also peta read list here:

nacho
kismet
disaster cartel
salsabil
infinity
not_mafia
notscience
venus fly trap
the bulge
sircakez
momrangal

_probably_ scum in that 3 or 4 spot there?

if peta iso convinces me of anything it's just that VFT is town

------

l&g interaction w/ salsa in 278 isn't good either (seems more likely just to be soft distancing then anything actually coming from it, but i don't know how firmly i believe that)

------

i don't see really any negative interactions between prism slot and dc slot that precludes both from being scum together, other than salsa's read list where she would have 2 scum in the very bottom if that were true. i don't think new-ish scum does that when there's that wonderful "this is where i put my buddies" tier right above it.

[Kismet]

and like the most logical outcome of not being able to vote for cakez/iverson if she wants to win today

you think cakez/iverson is S/S?

[Kismet]

Instead we can't even get that much, it turned into some interpersonal drama of a nonexistent attack where you somehow thought a short speech about how valuable I was and how you weren't throwing me away in the scum pile (and therefore I should try hard for your sake). The first part makes me extremely uncomfortable, I am just another player, I am tired of paying social niceties simply because the absence is read as something more vicious, and the second is a very visceral "fuck no" regardless of who the player is.

Message received.

Most things i'm doing here are designed to elicit an alignment indicative response. Sometimes I miss the mark on tone reading and sometimes I get aggressive due to a goal of seeing how people react to pressure or because I feel ardent about a particular point.

Ultimately, you get to play the game however you wish. You don't owe me a damn thing.

[Kismet]

kismet where are u holding on mom here?

i could maybe go mom at this point

[Kismet]

i just find it hard to believe that DC/Iverson would both be town

p-edit: meh, i don't even know. my reads are in such flux that i don't think i can give a satisfactory answer to that

[Kismet]

skitter do you think iverson is town due to interactions w/ me or something else?

[Kismet]

3011 and on threw me for a loop, but maybe i can see it (and everything after) starting as a response to 3000.

i have a hard time seeing both prism and dc as town considering how bulge went down. what's your dream team here?

[Kismet]

well if he's scum here what exactly is he doing?
retreating into the the absurd and defensive and philosophical?
although now that i think abt it if he thinks he's cooked after yesterday this might be prism's version of lolcatting. but he could have just left teh game instead of doing whatever he's doing now as scum?

yeah, fair enough.

[Kismet]

i'm willing to maybe admit 3083 - 3085 don't come from scum here

[Kismet]

it probably is that point, although i don't think any of that changes how i feel about his early game. if this got to the point where i had to be in a final 3 w/ him, then i definitely reeval

[Kismet]

honestly at this point w/o you standing in the way i maybe just go DC here.

[Kismet]

i think taking a break after this game would just be a very good thing for me.

[Kismet]

i'm around-ish if you want to bounce some ideas. What have you been thinking about?

[Kismet]

still think VFT is town, and if i'm getting paranoid on notsci it's mostly due to lack of presence and other reads (iverson/cakez/DC) having less 'stale' data to work with on, the former two of which i probably feel different about now than i did when day started

[Kismet]

if your notsci read was sheepable before, what's different now?

crippling paranoia?

[Kismet]

Im not voting noddy today regardless, so, i think we can move on from this

[Kismet]

I think cakez' positions have been a little sloppy and disorganized and some of his early game was a bit shallow. I wrote about this in 2599 and when i came into today i kinda wanted to vote him.

That said my position has kind of flipped since daystart and of all the people expressing ire about how the wagons went yesterday his seems to be the most genuine and I liked his interactions w/ Iverson, definitely enough to put me off wanting to go for him for the moment.

[Kismet]

honestly at this point if not for skitter saying ABSOLUTELY FUCKING NOT I'd probably just go for DC and hope for the best.

[Kismet]

i think this game gets more winnable if we get even 1 scum here imo and i'm just trying to get back from the precipice. I understand that some want me to just get it over with and I don't begrudge that sentiment.

[Kismet]

It's like, you don't think cakez is scum with mara right? So who are you voting besides DC today?

probably mara.

[Kismet]

I don't see him doing loopedy loops trying to avoid getting limmed here as scum when he could've just drawn less attention to himself by letting NM hammer.

yeah, this isn't a bad point and is initially why i was confused about the NM flee.

[Kismet]

fwiw, i actually did go read iceland after the stuff you posted at me last night and didn't really see anything in that vein.

[Kismet]

(i did not read your PT, though)

[Kismet]

skitter i am having trouble finding DC to be town for the reasons you think they are town

do you have solid examples of mena doing the stuff you posted about expecting him to do as scum?
do you have solid examples of him decidedly not doing that as town?

[Kismet]

fwiw, i actually did go read iceland after the stuff you posted at me last night and didn't really see anything in that vein.

I, uh, yeah. Nothing in that vein, good job, no need to revisit.

look man i just want to figure the game out and every time i think i'm getting close you'e dropping hints that i don't know what i'm doing

[Kismet]

which, i mean, may be true, but it's just kinda turning me into a paranoid wreck

[Kismet]

i didn't say it was out of your range. infinity said that. I'm just playing probabilities of motivations as best i can

[Kismet]

anyway

prism: dc over mom?

[Kismet]

that's basically where i am. i'm going to sort the DC thing out w/ skitter and then probably make a decision because i think we've probably hit the point where i won't get too much more out of this gameday.

p-edit: ok.

[Kismet]

anyway i'm back on infinity town i don't think i ever vote there today.

[Kismet]

he implied he didn't have much time until tomorrow.

[Kismet]

yep i agree

[Kismet]

i still believe that, and honestly the motivation for going to ground today of all days seems ??? when basically he just has to have a pulse to not get voted today

vs him being busy which is probably just what this is

in tenet he acted much the same way, especially after the early game wind left his sails.

[Kismet]

yeah, that was more in response to cakez' earlier objections. "PoE+too low of standards" is a good way of putting why i think he's worth examining for some values of 3v1

[Kismet]

mena looks so floppy in general in that game

[Kismet]

i mean in panic room, he just looks really lost and effete

[Kismet]

just is devoting a lot of effort into being nice and doesn't seem like he knows who to push (i don't think there's a single vote thrown down in that ISO)

[Kismet]

point was it doesn't feel like this game where he got pissy with me very quickly

[Kismet]

yeah sorry if i'm not making my conclusions very clear - i am inclined to agree w/ your assessment

[Kismet]

ok. consider me sheeping you atm. i'll wait for infinity and ydrasse to do whatever.

[Kismet]

i think this will keep for one more day noddy. but probably not much longer.

[Kismet]

(as far as the votes starting to come in)

[Kismet]

can't sleep

VOTE: mom

unless i'm massively wrong on skitter i think this is just the play. On some level i am proxying the DC read to Skitter, but i think her points yesterday were good and I think she's got a good head for how Mena generally plays similar as to how i do for noddy.

If that flips scum I think the mostly likely team is Infinity/Iverson (page 124 be damned) just due to most other slots just not really fitting the bill w/ mara for me, along w/ my TR on noddy, but mostly infinity because of the somewhat hedgy read on VFT (lilith stuff, 3146 etc.) while basically requiring VFT scum for DC to also be scum, and yet not wanting to vote outside DC today, which wins the game in this universe.

if mom is town then whatever, this is us losing and i don't have to care anymore. it's been fun.

[Kismet]

I know ur gonna hate me saying this but i think infinity/notsci at this point

i know that availability has been sporadic but i refuse to believe that noddy/infinity/mom care so little about winning that they don't even attempt the QH here

[Kismet]

the mafia role PM implies no daytalk, which would make it pretty difficult to quickhammer anyone.

ok, not a terrible point. Just kinda assumed daytalk was standard these days - I haven't been in a game w/o it since I started playing again.

[Kismet]

even so, you get excited to win here as scum and maybe motivate yourself to be around more, yeah?

[Kismet]

only other possible team for me at this point i guess would be vft/dc/cakez

[Kismet]

meh

[Kismet]

Honestly you don't have to trust me on this but I TR prism more than I TR bork

therefore prism is more likely to be right than i am?

[Kismet]

infinity-mom proven not S-T

[Kismet]

Ok, you've kinda forced my hand, I actually think bork is the last scum *gasp*

You don't have to believe me but I wanna say I called it

Spoiler:

[Kismet]

feel like the facade is starting to crack

we'll see

[Kismet]

i like that you get all my references

[Kismet]

noddy-mom not S-T

[Kismet]

grats

[Kismet]

i wasn't planning on it, no, but i think infinity is just trying a tactic i don't really grok vs really believing that i'm scum

[Kismet]

if you're worried about something just out w/ it i'm kinda done

p-edit: @noddy

[Kismet]

I’m like playing through the likelihood of you being the only town on the wagon

i'm basically staking the game on my VFT read. if i'm wrong on them i'm not coming back from that.

[Kismet]

I also was like “what if scum vft is protecting scum DC” but why wouldn’t dc have hammered then

yeah, i get it. thats a possibility in a mom-town world where DC just hasn't logged on yet.

i decided i'm going this way.

[Kismet]

why the shit are we still doing this if you think mom is scum even w/ me or noddy lol

[Kismet]

can't sleep

VOTE: mom

unless i'm massively wrong on skitter i think this is just the play. On some level i am proxying the DC read to Skitter, but i think her points yesterday were good and I think she's got a good head for how Mena generally plays similar as to how i do for noddy.

If that flips scum I think the mostly likely team is Infinity/Iverson (page 124 be damned) just due to most other slots just not really fitting the bill w/ mara for me, along w/ my TR on noddy, but mostly infinity because of the somewhat hedgy read on VFT (lilith stuff, 3146 etc.) while basically requiring VFT scum for DC to also be scum, and yet not wanting to vote outside DC today, which wins the game in this universe.

if mom is town then whatever, this is us losing and i don't have to care anymore. it's been fun.

still how i feel; not the most popular thread opinion but this is where i'm at.

[Kismet]

noddy look man while you've been gone the last x days i've been painstakingly going over all that shit to the point where people are getting visibly annoyed with me.

I feel like this is the best head state I'm going to get in, and unless the team is a very specific group of people at this point, this is probably what i'm doing today. if a tomorrow comes and i'm part of it, i'll reenergize and solve more.

[Kismet]

fingers crossed

[Kismet]

i don't blame you for not being around, to be clear. life happens.

[Kismet]

(if this is an L i'm town)

[Kismet]

boof

choof