TM2021 | Anime Destroys Untrod Tripod | Endgame

[Lady Lambdadelta]

Y'all play like how Cheetory made those posts, you put the oil out there, then expect me, a hot flame, not to just casually walk over it and burn everything in existence. You blaming the fire, not the guy who put the oil down.

Is what it is, but I was never the first one to be toxic in any exchange in this entire game bar maybe StatusQuo, but forgive me for wanting scum partners in Team Mafia to actually do anything. Besides part of that first day, and maybe some in the last, I was a Team of 1.

Also, if players like Reckoner think that my vote at the end was a concede,

lol, get better at the game, dude.

It was over.

Maybe I shouldn't try to compare people to the level of my foresight, I guess.

I... isn't this literally what a concession means? You think it's over before it mechanically is over so you concede and give up?

[Lady Lambdadelta]

I passed that level of understanding years back. It was mechanically over due to the sociological atmosphere.

I do not play a mechanical game, and I have proven over the years why the Sociological game is just as, if not more, important than the mechanical side of things.

The game was decided when Nancy locked in her vote, that was the fight. The fight for the Nancy vote.

In theory, with a blank slate of characters, yes, there was the mechanical opportunity still there, but this wasn't a blank game, so that doesn't apply here, which is something most players drastically underestimate the value of.

I've played a lot more Mafia than the majority of players, both in person, and on forum with an intense focal point on the sociological side of the game, and you can see my success record since I joined site in 2014.

I actively trained myself to play in different types of playstyles, every single one of my alts were created to play differently as well, and that showed heavily (besides my last like 6 months on site, of course), and frankly, after 7 years of playing Mafia intensely, I was burnt out.

Do I actively think I'm squeaky clean from this game on a toxicity level? Of course not, anyone who knows me knows I don't actually think that, but at the end of the day, I was a complete reactionary player this game, and I stand by that.

If people get toxic at me, I'm going to get toxic back. I'm actually rather strong at refraining from toxicity a lot of times too, which people don't want to point out.

If I say something, yes, I want to put a thorn in people's sides who are being toxic/rude. Were my posts here indicative of that? Absolutely. I will stick up for myself, and give my side of things in relative clear thought processes.

I very much doubt you would ever be able to find a scenario where only I was toxic in a non reactionary way. I live for the duel, so people coming at me, I'll take em down.

The last 6 months I played on the site, I admittedly wasn't as strong at refraining myself, I was burnt out, not an excuse, but an explanation, as you can see my last run was far weaker in terms of play than the entirety of my 7 years on site, but it's because I wasn't having fun anymore.

Like people wanna say "thinks he's so good", no. I don't think I am at this point, I know I am, and it's because of the effort I put into to forcing myself to learn how to play the game and improve on a high level, in game design, in town play, in scum play, face to face, and on forum, and frankly, they all continuously poked the dragon when the dragon hadn't eaten or slept in months. The dragon should have known better, but dragons fuck up. I got that power, so yes, it is on me not abuse it.

To be fair it does take a very high IQ to understand rick and morty

in this ted talk i will

[Lady Lambdadelta]

i don't think anyone with like reasonable mafia experience sees FL's situation and thinks that at that point there's any way out of it, when you have 2 votes on you in 4 way as scum with a good case on you, it's a courtesy at that point to just self vote and let the game resolve faster. It wasn't playing against the wincon. it had the same result as if FL stopped trying ad stopped posting in thread.

this game was objectively a loss for FL as soon as that case was posted on him and 2 votes were on him.

I say this as someone who had some experience moderating chat mafia games on Epicmafia for gamethrow where we needed to discern intent to throw - self voting to accelerate the game was not gamethrow if you gave an honest try to push a win. I think with >1k posts its pretty blatant that FL played their heart out for their win condition - to say they did not and slap a ban on it was egregious. You could have just as easily just slapped the ban on for toxicity and not the self vote - Don't set a bad precedent.

you do realize that if we don't slap self voting like that, a player who is mostly caught can go "i would have self hammered as scum here already" and have meta for it?

that's effectively a trust tell. we don't allow those. the truth is there is never a good reason to self hammer as the final scum on your team. never. 0 reason.

[Lady Lambdadelta]

like lets be generous: at least 1% chance.

Yes? lol

people get paranoid and change their minds all the time. Or rather, if he was going to die anyway why need to self hammer?

[Lady Lambdadelta]

I understand why some people think I had a chance, but it's like playing Go or Chess. The longer it takes for someone to realize that the game is over, the newer the player, and thus it's polite to resign when the game is seen to be over.

As Pooky said, and shown by the end of it, I was burnt out from Mafia, the last 3 months I was playing was for the first time just not fun anymore, and exhausted, so it was essentially, I'm completely out of energy, I put so much effort into this game, and I got KO'd.

My health bar got depleted. Like, they won. They beat me. The game was over.

Except Mafia isn't go or chess and it's not a zero sum game and it's not a game where you play by yourself.

It's a team game. Concession in chess and go and other zero sum strategy games is done because you can see that the movesets are closed off. That isn't the case with human psychology.

The truth is, I've convinced a group of 4 people ON THIS WEBSITE who SHOULD HAVE CONFIRMED THROUGH MOD INFORMATION ALL KNOWN that I was CONFIRMED SCUM that I was instead CONFIRMED TOWN by a narrative I had created by predicting this outcome and won that game off that lie.

A 0% to win game, turned into a win by sheer force of will.

Mafia is not a game where players can just say "well I concede" and be right.

And I find it incredibly offensive that you say shit like you did here, talking down to us. You're not better than most people here. You're certainly not better than me. Or did you not learn your lesson in Tenet where you pulled this shit and it probably was the main cause for town losing that game.

If you keep on this path, you're never going to improve. Part of being able to improve is recognizing your limits and knowing where your weaknesses are.

Mafia is not a game where anything is lost. If you fight to the end and you didn't make the right moves or say the right words, so be it, it happens.

I mean a great example of this is Wall street bets. A game where I was close to 0% to win and came within... I dunno, a single early game choice of who had the money of winning. I took an unwinnable game and got to final four with 2 votes believing I was town. All I needed was for the vig not to be bought by one of the people who didn't think that way. It was a shame and I just didn't get it right. I can learn from that.

But I could have given up when I realized they were buying it, but I had outs in which I could convince them to shoot someone else. Learning to try for those outs and playing to them is a sign of an experienced player, not a new one.

[Lady Lambdadelta]

Like, you could have replaced out instead of killing yourself. Why didn't you do that if you were exhausted?

[Lady Lambdadelta]

relying on town literally gamethrowing is not the take you think it is wrt conceding a clearly lost position.

It turns out that Manipulating someone into a blunder and relying on them to make it on their own are two different things.

It turns out that there are win conditions beyond town playing perfectly, in which you... shockingly

INDUCE TOWN INTO A SUBOPTIMAL PLAY VIA MANIPULATION

I feel like I'm playing with people who play poker and look up hand strength online and fold anything that is below premium. Yes, I get it, you're not favoured. Part of poker is playing the other player, not the hand. Inducing folds. Inducing bad calls.

Poker is a much better metaphor for Mafia.

But the Dunning-Krueger here is super strong, because both of you seem to really enjoy talking down to people while lording how right you are, when you literally couldn't be more wrong.

[Lady Lambdadelta]

And I don't replace out of games I sign up for unless I feel I'm getting too toxic, another telling of where I believe my level of toxicity was this game

Hmmmm