Mini Normal 2209: Musicals II [Endgame]

[Anya]

VOTE: bloodhail

that's L1

[Anya]

yep

his thing about the sample VT pms seeming forced seems forced so still happy here

[Anya]

until you two get profile pics you're the same person to me

[Anya]

whatever you say Thail

[Anya]

i wanted to 1up you in forceness i don't actually think it

[Anya]

VOTE: boxxy

acussing people of fishing when they're not usually comes from oil rig captains

[Anya]

Anyone who doesn’t answer now is anti-town.

And yet you still haven't answered your own questions despite me asking you too. Curious.

do you think that actually makes him a wolf? fascinating.

[Anya]

italiano's town on his birthday the world is right and round

[Anya]

UNVOTE: InsidiousLemons
VOTE: Anya
Lemons makes a good point about Anya's change of tack. 29 doesn't look like it was intended as a troll vote.

@T3 - Can you describe the difference in play you're feeling?

how dare you insinuate i would troll i don't condone that behaviour at all and imo trolls deserve to be banned on sight

it was a random vote to produce literature in this barren excuse of a library

[Anya]

boxxy get out of your box

[Anya]

i think italiano's town anyway but he gets the birthday pass for a week where he will sit comfortably as my top top townread no exceptions

[Anya]

@anya what about italiano's defense feels town to you? this a good faith question

i dunno it feels like he's innocent and wants to win by the power of friendship and teamwork i assumed the apologetic skill tree choice was a personality trait

[Anya]

putting boxxy into the town box now seems like an earnest toothbrusher

VOTE: NotMafia

[Anya]

I'm not really at all surprised, given my limited recollections of playing with Not_Mafia, but I

am

annoyed that, in a game this small, one player is essentially making themselves unavailable for reading. Always tempting to make that vote but I have no particular confidence that it'd actually get any more out of him.

@Anya

do you actually feel like your vote is doing anything useful?

yeah the person being voted must be terrified right now i'm a bad person

[Anya]

I don't think policy executions are something that should be considered until the day is ready to end. N_M trolling is exactly what he did in my last game. Over the course of day 1 he eventually contributed enough relevant content to get a read, but I don't expect it to be possible to pressure him into doing so early.

Anya was also in that game so she should know this. Despite that her vote is currently sitting on the player least likely to provide meaningful content in response even though she claimed to want to provoke discussion, which is a major red flag.

votes aren't only useful for reactions from the person being voted they're also useful for reactions from everyone else too onwen

[Anya]

let me be clear: i don't think anyone should claim D1 until absolutely necessary. this site's meta has become infested with pointless early claims and it's terrible

I must have missed it. Why is this being said?

it was a response to boxxy's suggestion that i'm rolefishing

full disclosure the bloodhail unvote was stonedposting, i popped into the thread, panicked, realized my mistake and dipped lol. anya's attempted hammer test here was actually an okay idea, and it's a more adventurous play than what i'd expect of her. that's a good thing.

Why’d you panic?

because i didn't want scum to quicklim town!bloodhail on page 2? if he really was at E-1 that early, wouldn't

you

unvote? we're playing a 9p, which would mean that a town elim followed by a NK would leave us one miselim away from LyLo. being in that situation on D2 with only 2 pages' worth of prior information is a terrible situation for town. keep in mind that i didn't think this through nearly so much at the time, because of my aforementioned inebriation. but i do stand by the unvote in the scenario where bloodhail really was at E-1, because to me, that was the apparent reality of the situation.

Is preemption really scum indicative?

it certainly tends to be, as far as i've seen. what motivation does a town player have to prevent a given player from voicing their opinion/defending themself? the more we force people to defend themselves on their own, the more we can determine their thought process and logic, and attempt to evaluate what perspective it's coming from. preemption opens the door for the person under pressure to simply copy the reasoning of their defender, and takes useful information away from town.

And saying “if you’re town” can be faked by scum.

my argument isn't that "if you're town" is town AI, but that "if we're the same alignment" is scum AI. deliberately vague and cautious phrasing like this does indeed more often come from scum, in my experience.

It would be weird for me to say that in thread if we’re scum partners. Because I know I’m town I don’t have to highlight the fact that I am the way scum do.

so what if it's weird? we don't know your alignment either way, it makes no difference to us. town doesn't think about what's "weird to say", they think about what's true. maybe it would be weird to your scumpartner, but you can save that for the PT. i don't like this defense at all. as scum, your partner's opinion of you and your actions is irrelevant. "if we're the same alignment" feels like you trying to cover all the options and specifically avoid implying your alignment to try and appear town -- if we really were scumpartners, you'd know that, so there would be no reason to phrase the sentence this way. as you said, town isn't concerned with trying to appear town. so why are you?

VOTE: lemons

bloodhail keeps banging on my door to read apple's posts more clearly so i did and i really don't like whatever that is at the end there seems like writing words bc you're trying to hit a word count

[Anya]

bloodhail keeps banging on my door to read apple's posts more clearly so i did and i really don't like whatever that is at the end there seems like writing words bc you're trying to hit a word count

this is just kind of how i post. i tend to ramble and restate points unnecessarily because i'm prone to losing my train of thought, and i would rather over- than under-explain myself. you're attacking my style of writing rather than the content of the post itself.

cdb probably scum too

can you elaborate on this please?

nah not the writing style it's how you're conjuring reasons to dislike italiano or question him out of an alchemist's cookbook

that whole reasoning was out of Alice in wonderland to me

[Anya]

votes aren't only useful for reactions from the person being voted they're also useful for reactions from everyone else too onwen

:/
- Fair counter, what useful reactions did your vote provoke and what did you think of them then?
- Are you an alt?

your reaction was ok and no one else volunteered to condemn notmafia which is bad for him

no

[Anya]

btw i'm claiming soft doctor so protect me tonight if you're also a doc

[Anya]

i like the bulbasaur too

[Anya]

i stand by me peering into lemon's soul and seeing lemon juices that are tainted red

it feels like the lemon's been left outside the fridge and gone off slightly compared to the fresh lemons i'm used to

[Anya]

VOTE: T3

didn't you just steal that pineapple from me in the farmer's market

[Anya]

VOTE: boxxy

acussing people of fishing when they're not usually comes from oil rig captains

[Anya]

i can't believe this boxxy

i'm so patient with you hoping you'll find your own way without my assistance but you strike out at me every opportunity you get rejecting everything i've done for you

i still think you're town but it pains me to see you like this

[Anya]

are you actually on L1

[Anya]

Also I’ve been reading a few of Anya’s games and she seems to be a little more all over the place when she’s town. This game has been kinda subdued. Like she usually votes for everybody and says a lot of things that seem scummy. Here she seems town. Anyone who has actually played with her notice this as well?

it's definitely not just you. she felt a bit more passive overall in the last game i played with her than in the games you quote a bit lower down, and she was scum in that one. however, she did do a lot of the vote-hopping kind of thing in the early days of that one as well. you may be onto something, but it's hard to tell on D1. have a look at our last game if you like (feat. scum!anya) and see if you agree:

Mini Normal 2205

VOTE: Not Mafia
VOTE: Italiano
VOTE: channelbird
VOTE: bloodhail
VOTE: lemons

there you go am i town now

btw i totally would've used this as an excuse to "accidentally" bring the warhammer down on boxxy as wolf

[Anya]

i stand by me peering into lemon's soul and seeing lemon juices that are tainted red

it feels like the lemon's been left outside the fridge and gone off slightly compared to the fresh lemons i'm used to

VOTE: T3

didn't you just steal that pineapple from me in the farmer's market

this is kind of a curious juxtaposition. anya, what are you hoping to accomplish with this T3 vote? and why do you think your vote is better there rather than continuing to pressure me, if my "juices" (ew) are so red?

p-edit the cow returns! wanna give us some context for those reads?

what else other than a hydraulic press and a recording the aftermath

t4's response was reasonable

[Anya]

he's a misunderstood toothbrusher

[Anya]

boxxy why do you ignore me i try so hard for you you're tearing me apart boxxy

[Anya]

rereading makes me wonder if our pair could actually be Italiano and N_M. Italiano handled my suspicion of him strangely (see Owen's 113), and 158/159 are weirdly defensive of Not_Mafia after 3 nothing posts:

hes not gonna post anything useful

He does post useful content when there is useful content to post.

was there no useful content to post by page 7? your own post history certainly suggests otherwise.

then despite these assurances, in 189 he's fine giving N_M a free D2 pass even in light of a continued total lack of content from him.

if not_mafia is one of our (most likely) 2 scum, that could explain why everyone else looks so darn... town. it's hard to pick out 1 scum out of 8 active players, but italiano's nervousness around running up not_mafia makes me think he could be our magical 1/8. i think the best way to determine this without sacrificing anyone who's actually contributing would be to flip not_mafia and go from there. i know i said i wouldn't support a policy lim but 7 total posts D1 is abhorrent and the increased potential to gain information makes me think this could be the way to go.

thoughts?

why do you say pair

is it bc there's 3 wolves and you want to look like you're oblivious and an innocent carnival goer

[Anya]

Wagons I wouldn't support right now: boxxy, bloodhail, Lemons, UNOwen, Italiano
Wagons I'd therefore consider: Anya, T3, NM

this is actually really lazy this is just ordering reads based on how regular of a customer they are

VOTE: channelbird

[Anya]

why do you say pair

is it bc there's 3 wolves and you want to look like you're oblivious and an innocent carnival goer

you say this as if we didn't establish in literally post #6 that the most likely setup is 2v7. if you disagreed with that conjecture you certainly never said so, and it's true that that is far and away the most common distribution for a 9p. why are you bothering to make this push?

i mixed games up

13 is basically 9 when you really think about it

[Anya]

VOTE: notmafia

yeah whatever we can purge the witch and take the 40% odds i guess

[Anya]

Revealing scum!NM isn’t gonna point anything my way because I’m not saying he’s not scum. I’m saying give him more time to prove it or not.

don't think he ever will prove it

we might as well throw him to the piranhas now and see what kind of loot box we fish up

[Anya]

nah the loot box is notmafia's role card mostly

we might fish up a sweet epic red one or a common green

we still get some info about who was pushing it and at what stage though no use looking into that right now though unless it actually happens and pushes show conviction and stay on to the end or don't and etc

[Anya]

If everyone is good voting for CDB then I will vote there. Boxxy and Lemons isn’t happening today unfortunately.

is this a joke to you

[Anya]

but i feel everyone else on this table i can read better through the timeline but notmafia will always be an unknown so why not wrecking ball him now

[Anya]

VOTE: T3

explanation needed

[Anya]

don't think it's likely that tree enters the same phone booth as the goat

[Anya]

VOTE: bloodhail

no hail on the goat

[Anya]

only reason for two slimers to attach themselves at the hip for something like that is when it's actually viable or also has town support otherwise we see the hip joint marks and they gained nothing from it

there's no point when they're the only two voting boxxy and no one else is

[Anya]

VOTE: channeldelbird

sure i'll invest in some of this stock

i forgot boxxy claimed vt that is a strange kill then probably motivated by boxxy's recording of nightmares in his dream journal

[Anya]

Anya so quickly moving from the vote on me to N_M feels likely town. I would expect scum in her position to see where the wagon on me went because it absolutely looked like the most likely thing to come to fruition at that stage and I don't think anyone would have given her any grief for staying on me.

come again?

[Anya]

tempted to vote bloodhail for the over the top bravado

[Anya]

VOTE: unwen

the bird's talk of voting NotMafia might be a little too on the nose actually

[Anya]

i think it's the tree or bloodhail

possible that bloodhail recognised he looked really bad from being off wagon so needed to make a chilli flavoured kill

[Anya]

VOTE: bloodhail

[Anya]

actually i think it's lemons or bloodhail

tree grew too close to notmafia i forgot about that

[Anya]

bloodhail could be town but i don't want to go out in this hail too much baggage not worth trying to reread or evaluate

[Anya]

actually whatever VOTE: unowen

[Anya]

did i scumclaim or is unowen a wolf make your mind up

[Anya]

I agree that the limpool should be within bloodhail, Lemons, and Owen.

I don’t see Anya, T3, or Delibird bussing Day 1. I actually think Lemons believed his Italiano/Not_Mafia scumcase. bloodhail’s emotional outburst could just be obnoxious town. There are compelling cases everywhere.

Honestly I don’t know. I’m sheeping you again, Anya. Whatever.

VOTE: Unowen

i'm voting unowen mainly bc of the boxxy kill

287 bloodhail was toppish town and unowen could make that murder

[Anya]

so is it t4 or treeowen

[Anya]

bloodhail and Italiano are very towny.

Town: bloodhail, ItalianoVD
Lean town: Anya, UNOwen
Null: N_M, Channel
Lean scum: Lemons
Scum: boxxy

I don't scumread channel right now but he's in my pool right now.
bloodhail is very very very town.

Lock town: boxxy
Town: Owen, bloodhail
Lean town: Italiano, NM
Null: Anya
Lean scum: Channrl
Scum: Lemons

VOTE: bloodhail

Town: Anya, Lemons, Italiano
Lean town: Channel
poe: everyone else not me
VOTE: unowen

VOTE: bloodhail
I xthink this is town but this is poe and we have to be safe.

am i a brick or is this just shameless wolf opportunism

how do you go from townreading someone all game to thinking they're town but also in the poe at the same time?

he's securing a free brutal execution while howling

VOTE: T4

[Anya]

the blood on the walls was telling me to but deep down i knew he was probably town

why'd you stop thinking he was very very very town?

[Anya]

i actually just remembered you being misbrutallyexecuted in other games for having no progression and sharp drift turns on reads so i've already changed my mind

VOTE: treeowen

[Anya]

let's be real it's gotta be the tree or the bird bc of the boxxy kill the box contained two wolf reads and it just makes sense one of those two was the who emptied it

also shouldn't we all just claim or at least the tree and the bird should

[Anya]

also vt strange happenings in the mansion tonight

I look forward to CDB's catch up. He's currently the player I'm most suspicious of, mainly because of this:

Anya so quickly moving from the vote on me to N_M feels likely town. I would expect scum in her position to see where the wagon on me went because it absolutely looked like the most likely thing to come to fruition at that stage and I don't think anyone would have given her any grief for staying on me.

This is presumably his justification for Anya not being partners with N_M. Unless Anya has a dark history of ruthlessly bussing her teammates then I agree it makes her very likely to be town but I'm not sure how this conclusion is reached before we knew N_M's alignment? At that point it was possible from CDB's perspective that Anya was switching from one town wagon to another, which doesn't seem particularly unlikely behaviour from scum.

this was a good snack treeowen make more of these nachos if you're town

[Anya]

This isn't about me looking for sympathy. I'm not trying to say that me acknowledging that I don't look great makes me town. (And if anyone were actively arguing for that in this thread, I'd say as much to them.) I'm saying that it makes me aware that I'm the obvious choice if people want to Note Vote For Not_Mafia, a viewpoint most actively espoused by ItalianoVD but which was unlikely to be limited to him. Generally speaking, a lot of people have a real resistance to policy executions, and that's more or less what this is.

In those circumstances, me getting voted is as likely as people defaulting to N_M,

and I clearly knew that

. It's not opportunistic behaviour if it doesn't improve my position. I'm not gaining any advantage by putting my vote "where it will be scrutinised the least" if I'm already staring down the barrel of scrutiny,

especially

when that scrutiny is coming for being low-effort.

If I were scum with N_M then my play in this game would be so anti-wincon that I think I would have just replaced out from the sheer shame of it. 'Shrug, no idea where to go, guess I'll just whine and policy my partner' is a straight-up losing play in that scenario.

(But if N_M flips scum and you want to execute me for it then, sure, whatever, 1-for-1 trades are good)

can you talk about these posts

i find the second one a little weird and the third very weird

UNVOTE:

[Anya]

It's the safest non participation play, putting your vote in a safe spot early.

This all just reads as scum doing what they think town would do. It's hard to get reads on people when you know they're all town.

If NM flips scum I'm looking here for CDB/NM scumteam

hang on a second here this is why the box was ripped to shreds

VOTE: channelbird

[Anya]

any last words treeowen

[Anya]

uh t4 why didn't you claim this yesterday after treeowenclaimes vt

[Anya]

apples was trying to look like they had secret powers yesterday so good job attracting the kill

i forgot the only other town role claimed was the friendly neighbourhood no way that's the only one the scales just wouldn't add up

VOTE: unowen

[Anya]

no trolls allowed

[Anya]

hooray