Mini 2206 - Deja Vu: Perpetual MELO IV - END!

[Iverson]

i'm not sure why 593 has to be an S-S interaction in a bubble

I don't think it has to be either if that's your concern.

[Iverson]

ok then i don't know what you're doing i guess?

Making a subjective guess and not asserting that there is something inherent in those words that strictly/logically exclude any other possibility

[Iverson]

sounds like a u problem fella

[Iverson]

(Reads as someone looking down the line for how they'll look after a hypothetical Cakez scumflip, not as someone worried a town will successfully flip them or hoping to flip a town and get out)

[Iverson]

I mean maybe but you've had him as town most of the game and it's unclear to me why it is actively scum indicative over NAI

[Iverson]

You watched me openly blitz the town wagon and are just now realizing I might be scum like ???

[Iverson]

Can you explain how that thought process on me just evolved considering you had 60 hours of knowing I blitzed the Bulge wagon without really thinking about it until I voted your slot?

[Iverson]

surprisingly decent answer

[Iverson]

VOTE: The Bulge

lmao peace nerds

Oh I still don't get what this was about

How are you confused? Have you read the page and a half that followed?

What specifically is your interpretation of the later posting?

I don't have one, it confused the hell out of me

Well as a town scumhunter it is your job to make an educated guess that I will correct if needed

[Iverson]

How's this: you're scum who decided to quickhammer because it benefits your wincon and everything else was nonsense you made up to make it seem like you knew what you were doing

And yet you're not voting me, it sounds like you have a theory for what I was doing as town that is mysteriously absent.

[Iverson]

Well I'll leave you at the drawing board then sorry

[Iverson]

I'm probably going to check out for the (real life) day but two different players cannot see a town motivation in what I did, are not voting, and Cakez magically does not see the town motivation only now that I have voted him. Utilizing his earlier answer, maybe there might have been town motivation in his mind as long as Not_Mafia might have been town since that's what he was waiting on before he judged the blitz.

[Iverson]

Like I dunno. I blitz town. NM may be town or scum. I come into the day null/townlean. I vote him. Now the town motivation for the hammer is mysteriously absent and this was not a redflag for Cakez until NM flipped scum, as though NM flipping town would have redeemed it.

[Iverson]

Normally when I don't understand something I ask and judge how believable the answer is, but iverson seems to really want me to vote him before he answers, so /shrug

No one else vote iverson obv

I am still not going to answer it for you, as you have intentionally avoided addressing the nonsense in favor of flopping or playing dumb, and only reluctantly acknowledged it existed and minimized engaging with it when challenged.

[Iverson]

rn I'm just trying to decide who has higher scum equity between notsci and Iverson

I am not unvoting you at any point so might as well let scum blitz it if I am wrong.

[Iverson]

"nearing" I literally openly blitzed a town player but saying I won't unvote a scumread is what does it for you?

[Iverson]

"nearing" I literally openly blitzed a town player but saying I won't unvote a scumread is what does it for you?

do you want to die?

Yeah, that's why I fled overnight.

[Iverson]

"nearing" I literally openly blitzed a town player but saying I won't unvote a scumread is what does it for you?

If you hammered a wagon you didn't prefer in order to slayer's gambit I will quit mafia

It was a combination of YOLO and reaction test, I had it as roughly 50/50 and NM could hammer at any time anyway, though Kismet could have unvoted. I did not know that it would flip town or intentionally put us in this scenario if that is your concern.

[Iverson]

UNVOTE: didn't realize NM quickhammering was free, but did you see my last post leaning towards TRing bulge?

I don't remember at this point but the inclination was more YOLO and hope it flips scum w/ reactions as a bonus rather than big brain plans, I hammered <2 minutes after Ydrasse voted so I really did not spend much time hashing out details.

"nearing" I literally openly blitzed a town player but saying I won't unvote a scumread is what does it for you?

do you want to die?

Yeah, that's why I fled overnight.

you're basically begging me to vote you

I don't know if you missed this but maybe it would help

rn I'm just trying to decide who has higher scum equity between notsci and Iverson

I am not unvoting you at any point so might as well [vote me w/ Infinity and] let scum blitz it if I am wrong.

[Iverson]

Let me be more explicit: Cakez, you should vote me.

[Iverson]

1. Blitz could have happened with me/NM or DC/NM
2. Yes, I did not sacrifice myself only so I could openwolf without any intention of getting a flip over giving NM the chance at the triple crown

[Iverson]

You to get flipped

[Iverson]

Kismet just wondering how much work you're going to do for Cakez instead of making him do it himself

[Iverson]

This is one of the least souldraining games I've played onsite tbh but I am not exactly finding it interesting.

Not particularly enjoyable is a big upgrade.

[Iverson]

At this point I'd like to just concede if skitter is town.

[Iverson]

i like his [Cakez] entrance today, he's p persistantly pushed for nm yesterday, and he also has anti-partner associatives with l/g

Absolutely not

and i utterly hate everything prism has done since/including the hammer

Hated everything I did before the hammer, same vague shit with no followthrough for like 2 weeks now, what I've done since the hammer is hardshove another person in the bottom tier

[Iverson]

i don't know what you're trying to say

~ skitter

It is saying this game is lost if you are town because even if by some miracle you manage to not vote me the chance of me not voting you in 4 way is zero.

[Iverson]

yes my pick for the townie in the bottom tier >.>
i think your push on him is gross

~ skitter

Descriptive as always.

[Iverson]

So do it.

[Iverson]

It doesn't actually matter what alignment Not_Mafia was when it comes to blitzing. It mattered what alignment Bulge was, and it is very clear based off daystart that Cakez was not actively thinking on it overnight and is improvising. The conditional was not on his mind at start of day even if it was in fact relevant, and it took me essentially gladiating him to have him work through it.

[Iverson]

I'm pretty sure my statement above+statements on interactions w/ flipped slots suffice to answer the first question.

[Iverson]

right, he seemed to have been thinking through while u were talking to him
i'm not really sure why that's scummy hto
(or why yesterday you were calling to like 'coach' him through this process and explicilty call him *not* scum but today it's scummy either)

With this I'm throwing in the towel for the night.

[Iverson]

I am fine with you thinking I am scum and request that you vote me regardless of alignment while I am gone.

[Iverson]

Bork, notsci
Infinity

Momra, DC
VFT

Cakez

Might dig up meta to see how bushappy Momra is if I feel like it.

[Iverson]

As much as I wish VFT was scum the fact that they're actually spending time grilling Momra instead of just letting me piledrive myself unfortunately means they're probably town so I'm going to 180 mctwist and just say it's DC/Momrangal/Cakez via PoE and AFK vote for the rest of the game.

[Iverson]

I am dead serious that VFT should just vote, this is a foregone conclusion. If you want more time even in a world where I am scum you just unvote after.

[Iverson]

UNVOTE:

This has nothing to do with my read on Cakez, and late night monologues aren't fit for consumption for others. I appear to have warped the intent of the alt from playing differently to spark creativity in winning to playing with a different set of inflexible hallmarks even when they are clearly gamelosing.

We will see if I am so eager to compromise on my playstyle in the morning.

[Iverson]

You have me as a scumread, have Cakez as a weird fall guy, but Cakez was not the driver of either of the two previous scumflip. While Bork has not explicitly said it, I would be absolutely shocked were he not wanting to flip me, and VFT has been much more transparent about it. I find it hard to believe Cakez is the fall guy over my slot.

I am in the scumpile almost as a given, but the connections to others are questionable.

[Iverson]

And I decided I am willing to compromise everything. While I am at work right now, I have no intention of playing with my hands tied any longer, whether it winds up making a difference or not.

[Iverson]

My point is that this line of thinking, which assumes Cakez is in more danger than me, is extremely bizarre given the respective situations and I am concerned it is trying to have its cake (hue) and eat it too, ie. Hoping I flip but preparing for a Cakez flip.

[Iverson]

I do not think you are town, to be very clear.

[Iverson]

I'm going to hold off until I can sit down and give full effort, rather than divided bursts of distracted attention.

[Iverson]

Mmmm, okay, here's how I've decided to structure my role in this game.

Spoiler: Meta commentary

As alluded to previously, I do not want to continue restricting my playstyle for no real purpose or benefit. While I am committed to playing and playing well for the sake of other players in the game, I do not really want to play mafia right now, and in fact I want to completely step away from the internet for a month or two. This does not work when my natural style is to play for hours a day, so instead I'm going to strike a balance.

Tomorrow I will do a full catchup/reread of the game for as long as it takes. I will spend another hour after that reviewing my notes and interacting with whoever happens to be around.

After that, I will spend exactly one hour per day on the game. This will start and end on an even hour, probably 9 EST every day. If the game is still going, from the 21st-30th this will be reduced to one hour every two days as I will be on VLA.

tl;dr: nothing today, exactly one day of tryhard tomorrow, and then exactly an hour of tryhard every day after that

[Iverson]

IT IS THE TWENTIES

AND THERE IS TIME FOR MAFIA

aight hustlers it's 2:20pm and I just woke up no days off rise and grind let's get this bread

[Iverson]

Vote: Not_Mafia

Seems like a foregone conclusion anyways.

I've read the first 10 pages like 4 times at this point but this post cracks up me every time and just gets better with age

[Iverson]

I'm reading/taking notes at a pace of 10 minutes/page so this is going to be a time.

NACHO WAS RIGHT

Anything else you've been thinking about the last 48 hours?

[Iverson]

(I think it is very obvious that Cakez is not thinking about the game other than for exactly the 10 minutes where he opens the page)

It doesn't actually matter what alignment Not_Mafia was when it comes to blitzing. It mattered what alignment Bulge was, and it is very clear based off daystart that Cakez was not actively thinking on it overnight and is improvising. The conditional was not on his mind at start of day even if it was in fact relevant, and it took me essentially gladiating him to have him work through it.

right, he seemed to have been thinking through while u were talking to him
i'm not really sure why that's scummy hto
(or why yesterday you were calling to like 'coach' him through this process and explicilty call him *not* scum but today it's scummy either)

This is one of my big frustrations with skitter. Everyone saw me blitz. It didn't faze Cakez, at overnight or at day start. Suddenly it became something worth looking into when I pushed him. This makes sense if you were iffy on it, thinking of plausible explanations for either alignment, but here Cakez is claiming to have basically completely overlooked it and just now be thinking about it and man he just doesn't get it.

What?

The difference between this interaction on me blitzing and my Cakez criticism Day 2 was that his responses were too rushed and he should slow down and chew on them more. Cakez watched me shoot his dog and IDK that just didn't seem like it was significant but now that you mention it man how did he miss that?

The wheels are only turning when the inspectors show up.

[Iverson]

Contrast that to someone like Infinity, who didn't get it, tried to work through it, still did not get it and actively questioned it. I wanted to make sure Infinity wasn't just playing the part of confused to be performative, but that skepticism was so much more natural of a reaction.

[Iverson]

Summary of thoughts on first 10 pages:

-Mena's insistence on foisting a townread on notscience, even when shown his meta was bad, while being skeptical of Kismet with the excuse of not knowing who he is, makes me feel like he really just doesn't want to wind up in a position fighting notsci rather than trying to read him. I also really don't like the aimless browbeating push on NM that was obviously never going to work over something more substantive and his/skitter's interactions are bizarre and contrarian for their own sake, particularly things like DC disagreeing with the Kismet TR but only asking why skitter townread him as an afterthought.

-Two post of Nacho's sum up my thoughts really well on VFT. The first, 118 is about how skitter seems to be voting him for doing something bad rather than actually thinking he's scum. I go back and forth on 116 from Leafeon, I was pretty sure it was +scum for skitter in that it's obvious who skitter is pushing and Nacho is right that it seems like aimless questioning for its own sake. Now I think it's plausible Leafeon is just concerned about skitter and wants to ask a good looking question. I'm more neutral than Nacho is on Lillith.

-notscience was right to think Nacho was scum for being active and I liked the wallpost he made about it. I'm still iffy to see how the thought he could read Not_Mafia meshes with the Day 2 start but I'm optimistic.

-Infinity is still town to me for the Leafeon+Glaceon interactions on page 4 but I haven't taken as much note of the rest of their posting.

-Kismet is still obviously town, this level of questioning and thought that is incisive but not biting is a farcry from both 2181 and Warehouse and I just don't think he has the heart to play on as scum.

-Shockingly, Cakez is really town in this time. 245 is a great post, not as thrilled at notsci being in the scumleans but his followup answer about notsci being too passive makes sense and giving three town as his townpool is fuckin BOLD

[Iverson]

damn y'all actually made the man try on page 14 only to vote him anyway.

i would have done the same, it's ok

[Iverson]

My thoughts on pages 10-20: I'm sorry but this was unreadable garbage from virtually every player posting.

I hate that that's a copout but yeah. Cakez's/Nacho's perspectives both make sense but I got to watch a 5 page slapfight, Mena's posts aren't really ~wrong~ but the strength of the notsci TR is so extremely bizarre to me and the interaction w/ Kismet is bad. Not planning on reading Skitt sounds like a scumclaim from what I saw in 2181.

[Iverson]

Like fuck after that I have to take a break and go drive that was one of the most painful 10 page slogs I have experienced in my life

[Iverson]

Okay I've spammed enough atm but my last thought for a bit is Skitter is suddenly my best friend on pages 22/23 and I feel a lot better about her slot

[Iverson]

0 posts on a Saturday. This game needs Jesus and I am not Jesus.

Does it just like, get even worse after page 25? What happened here? Have we no will to win? Was the Miltank Man just too strong?

[Iverson]

it's okay I still hate ur sircakez take too lmao

i still think voting me isn't the worst idea because it only gets blitzed if all 3 of us are town but idk maybe waiting until i finish is better. tbh that was so much rougher than i expected like holy shit, 3 hours for 25 fucking pages. I will work through some tomorrow as well but like #itried. cakez earlygame was good but i still don't mind gladiating it w/ what I have seen

[Iverson]

can you be more explicit about your issue here, do you still not get my point or do you disagree that the wheels never turning unless prompted is scummy

[Iverson]

- i odn't think he was online when you voted, and it looks to me like he reevaluated upon coming into the game day3. saying that he's only voting you and questioning your vote because you're pushing him seems remarkably disingenuous

I think it's worth reviewing the opening from Cakez given what you're saying here. Cakez did at least know that I blitzed, and the daystart it was not an issue. He is very open that he only looked back at me when I started pushing him, and in the context of

not understanding the blitz

this makes no sense. This post later:

VOTE: The Bulge

lmao peace nerds

still

not seeing any town motivation behind this btw

Makes it clear he didn't see any town motivation when he thought about it earlier, but now that I have pushed him, and he's scumreading me for it, now that skepticism is worth bringing up. I think a logically complete response would be that this fits with the "Iverson is ???" opener, but this isn't the point of contention between us at the moment.

- we established like start of day2 that he's only playing the game when he's here and is sort of thinking through his posts as he types them and, more importantly, that *you weren't scumreading him for this behavior*. i literally don't understand what changed and why you're scumreading him for this now but it wasn't scummy yesterday (you in fact took great issue with me saying you were scumreading him for doing just that). you also seem to understand that he's only thinking abt teh game while he's here 2736

You are fundamentally misunderstanding my point Day 2. I will try reframing it. Day 2, I did not like that Cakez was hipfire spitballing without slowing down to think, ie. reacting instantaneously. Think of the night phase as a

mandatory slowdown

, where Cakez sees the blitz and has it floating in the back of his mind for a bit. He should have come in ready to grill/push me for it, but instead it took a big backseat. If you still don't understand it, another framing might be transposing this into an alternate reality where Cakez has an immediate reaction to the blitz and does not react to it or really take note of it. Later on, during a different hipfire sequence, he claims to have always seen zero town motivation.

If none of these framings work to get it to click I'm not sure where else to go. Fundamentally I find it difficult to get key points across as you make equivalencies that I don't think are true and attribute certain frameworks of thought as universal that in reality I do not share, and these get compounded as they happen simultaneously, so I'm really straining my creativity trying to get these across in different ways.

- you seem to be townreading infinity for doing the same thing sircakez is doing ??? 2931

The contrast with Infinity is that Infinity immediately came right out of the gate not understanding it and grilling me for it. You seem to think of Cakez's delayed reaction as equivalent and attribute the delay as a trivial difference thanks to his style, but this is crucial to me and style does not cover it. His ambivalence on me before revising it to "still don't understand town motivation", ie. apparently something that was always scummy, is problematic.

i just, like, don't understand this push - it seems to me like it's convenient for you to be scumreading him for these reasons but i don't understand why 'only thinking abt the game while actively in thread* is scummy, which seems to be what the push boils down to

While I do think it is inherently scummy, and I don't care if it's Cakez anymore than I don't care that it's NM, I think the delayed reaction on finding the blitz scummy, when it apparently always on his mind, is a clear disconnect.

[Iverson]

ok I will bite on this
Iverson who are my scum buddies?

I don't really think of the game this way (doing preflip associatives) and am on record for it, but I've been pretty clear that my spitball is DC/you/Momrangal and while you go aggressive early on DC I didn't see it was exclusively TvS.

While I am willing to gladiate, I will gladly help you run up my scum partners if you agree on them.

I have nothing to comment on bait or playstyle. I think hipfire reactions are playstyle NAI but do not think the disconnect wrt blitzing or complete lack of cognition outside of the thread is. If I am wrong, which I am like clockwork, that is okay, and I do not regret shooting my shot.

[Iverson]

For VFT, one final exercise might be to just look at this progression in isolation without too much commentary from me. It is welldocumented that I am a player that places weight on progressions

above all else

.

Spoiler: Quotes

The Bulge (6): Venus Fly Trap, notscience, Infinity 324, Kismet, Disaster Cartel, Iverson

Notty and DC are scum
Maybe Infinity

Iverson is ???

Actually Iverson could be scum

And I forgot about fucking Mom

[Inquiring as to how the blitz fit into the above] You watched me openly blitz the town wagon and are just now realizing I might be scum like ???

Cuz i thought you were town ish yesterday but your vote on me is ass and you're in a bad spot on the bulge wagon

Can you explain how that thought process on me just evolved considering you had 60 hours of knowing I blitzed the Bulge wagon without really thinking about it until I voted your slot?

Because I didn't know Not Maf was for sure scum until day opened?

VOTE: The Bulge

lmao peace nerds

still

not seeing any town motivation behind this btw

As mentioned before, I think there is room for this progression to be interpreted to make sense, but that is not my current bet and we're not even to the point of understanding where that can even be a discussion.

[Iverson]

I also want to highlight for VFT that I am aware my attempts at different framings can be interpreted as some circus runaround to avoid something fundamentally not making sense, and my emphasis on the value I put on progressions an excuse for why it doesn't failing that.

While I am confident that my original framing and overall perspective makes sense, getting on the same page is a prerequisite for winning, and this means trying different framings/avenues that make the same point using different trains of thought than my own.

[Iverson]

2964 is...delusional in that I would be blatantly trying to win today, but okay.

I've put in the effort I have despite knowing it would be a loss so there's no shame and I'm not upset over it. That said, I think the game should be put down unless someone is seriously opposed. If Cakez is scum it takes another vote.

[Iverson]

you are asserting this is because you pushed him, which i don't think there is really any evidence for

...

[Iverson]

This is going to be read as a confessional but I really can't resist.

There are several issues with me being scum here, but hypothetically my start today would have been intentionally scummy with the goal of looping in this narrative of a playstyle shift later. I'm very attuned to the power of narratives and am very intentional about leveraging them as scum. I start out getting a handle on the table, but at a certain point I develop a preternatural instinct for what will be townread, when, and to what extent by the players in the table. The daystart is something I have pulled out all the time as Iverson and I am acutely aware that the hyperaggression gets scumread.

The goal of today would have been to start out hitting hard either to distance or to specifically work with the town player I was attacking, and to leverage that narrative of a playstyle switch to swing it back and seal a 3-0 shutout. I am never going deep in this table and it does not matter who the other 2 scum are, I would clearly be last priority.

[Iverson]

All of that said, I am legitimately town, and the playstyle shift is because, as mentioned previously, hyperaggression for its own sake without caring that I would wind up getting voted was silly and unfair to the other town, even if it's their responsibility to read me correctly.

I've put forth more than enough effort this game, and I'm fine with putting the game down, but this is my explicit warning that I am not phoning it in as scum, and that I am very willing to play on as town.

[Iverson]

you are asserting this is because you pushed him, which i don't think there is really any evidence for

...

you misunderstand, it feels like you are saying his whole demeanor changed on you because you started pushing him, and i really do not think that is the case

separate from that i do not see how his opening on you today really displays a change in tone from the start to where we ended up

I don't really see this point of conversation as productive any longer.

If you have something more concrete you would like to ask me that might result in an unvote, feel free. Anything else you can save it and trust that I don't give away partners easily anyway.

[Iverson]

There are several issues with me being scum here

what are these issues?

I thought about it, and I don't really want to get into these. This is mostly me being selfish and not wanting to put my ego, which needs to be reined in, on public display.

additionally: why were you so sure ydrasse was scum eod yesterday and then went nowhere w/ that today?

It was dependent on her seeing town blitz on scum, ie. Bulge flipping red.

as an aside this really isn't contributing to my read and in fact you felt more aggressive in 2181 then you do here

Okay.

[Iverson]

It was dependent on her seeing town blitz on scum, ie. Bulge flipping red.

i don't understand why, i guess

I still think it's scummy, but it's not as clearcut to me now as at the time, when I was very much thinking that Ydrasse had just watched me hammer a partner. Thinking on it overnight it was much more ambiguous to me, and one could even say this is the kind of chewing on it overnight that I alluded to with Cakez.

I would seriously drill down into whether these questions are really make or break for your vote. I mean it sincerely when I say that you will not get a partner out of questioning a scum me.

[Iverson]

ie. I want more explicit clarification as to the state of the game.

If you are willing to vote outside of me, don't vote me to begin with and question me all you want. Otherwise, I'd rather you just skip the questions, release me from my mortal coil, and we move on.

[Iverson]

I would really encourage reviewing my notes PT in Iceland. My scumplay is very intentional but restrained in scope, not putting as much value on being the specific person to win, and certainly not randomly targeted, spray and pray aggression.

[Iverson]

Oh hell naw I would lmfao

Sorry for being counterproductive but like I said no effective tactic is below me, if it works it works, I'm all about the pocket sand, the pine tar, the biting off Holyfield's ear midfight shit is my jam

[Iverson]

Granted I use them in conjunction w/ more effective and clean strategies rather than floppin' round like a seabass

[Iverson]

kismet will u unvote if i post a picture of my copy of klax for the nes

[Iverson]

what if i mail it to him, this would totally be okay and not against the rules at all

@ffery am i allowed to bribe boomers w/ physical gifts that bring to mind sweet days of youth???

[Iverson]

I mean tbf I'm pretty sure it's not going to get blitzed but I'm sure someone will follow your lead and then we gotta wait for the lazy fucks to coordinate and it's a long slow death spiral, the waters of our spirits slowly circling the clogged drain

[Iverson]

[Iverson]

oh god you are actually bothering to try and partner hunt for me you sad sad soul

the game is over but if i'm scum you're dead at night just let the ship sail gently into the night, rest my child

updating my myspace status to lachrymose

[Iverson]

Okay you're scumhunting independently go snipe hunt I'll leave you alone

[Iverson]

yeah dude it was obviously a scumclaim by saying "the game is over [with my flip]" and not a way of me saying "infinity is town and her not voting me isn't +scum"

[Iverson]

I'm going to get less sympathetic and more vicious if I actually respond to that. If you're upset with me butting into your process I'm sorry, I think the timing shows why I thought that even if it was wrong.

[Iverson]

I'm not. You have free rein and I am sorry for jumping in. Continue unimpeded and forget I said anything.

[Iverson]

1. You say that but are literally still voting me, which presumably means you are prepared to end the game with this guess.
2. That is an absolutely gigantic burden to put on me while actively rejecting every read I have given all game and there is little reason to believe this is more than a carrot on a stick where if I put in 40 hours explaining the same reads 4 different ways maybe 5% of the time you'll consider not flipping me.
3. L+G interactions are significantly better with the Infinity slot than any other, go back and read and L+G is noticeably afraid of her while a lot more willing to take risks poking at a slot like Cakez.

[Iverson]

There is a reason I wanted clarification on the gamestate. I am not putting in 40+ hours for no reason. Ask me something that will plausibly get you to flip or just let the game end.

[Iverson]

Nope, going to have an aneurysm, not doing this, another time maybe if we're lucky.

[Iverson]

I'm heading out for the night. I will not be checking the thread again until 9 EST tomorrow, where I will stick around for exactly one hour. This will be the daily ritual for the rest of the game.

[Iverson]

Okay, a bit early but I'm starting the clock. If I haven't answered anything by 9:34 EST, I either don't want to address it or it will wait until the next day.

[Iverson]

First, I've thought about this all day and hate that I even have to address this. I really want to just leave it, because fundamentally none of it is AI, none of it is personal, and yet it's being read that way anyway.

Kismet, you misread 2997 and responded super defensively. 3000 you treated it like a scumclaim or me attacking you as town for no reason. The point of 2997 and most of the posts on that page is that I'm not going to lash out or be upset at losing, and instead just take it in stride and try to have fun while we can. 2997 was me being sympathetic to your position and jokingly telling you to take a break and basically saying I'm not scum with Infinity.

You took it the complete opposite way like I just intentionally ran over your cat, and wound up getting an equally sarcastic and snarky response.

[Iverson]

Prism I am not dealing with you in a way that is throwing you away in my scum pile and positioning every future interaction w/ you as a way to get your partners. I feel like that should be obvious from my demeanor, but if I need to unvote to get you to get past that, then I am willing to. If you're town you're a huge asset to me.

The issue here is that while I am willing to play on as town, I am not willing to be led on for days at a time. When you make a second vote in this day, you are prepared for it to be blitzed. I'm okay with that.

I'm not as enthused about the idea of spending 40 hours on the game this week just in the hopes that you don't vote me. I'm not going to do it. You get an hour a day. I encouraged you to think of things that could plausibly get you to unvote, because again I took this as a willingness to call it rather than spinelessly begging me to burn a week of my life and emotional energy hoping that you grant mercy. I'm glad you unvoted but I wanted to be very clear about what exactly you should be expecting from me at this point in the game.

ie. If you are 90%+ sure you're going to vote me, stop wasting all of our time and do it. I can give what I owe the other players, and I can put the game down if we want, but I'm not burning myself up like a candle so you can navelgaze.

As for you and VFT, I could spend days writing about how my thinking changed between these two points in time. I've already written that the way I was playing around VFT was obviously gamelosing and I needed to change. Even disregarding those, your position is wildly different as someone who is almost certainly town to me whereas I was actively scumreading VFT at the time, although later I was hoping to cement the gladiate (before again deciding to swap playstyle)

[Iverson]

On another level, I am just uncomfortable with this game in its entirety, even without the time/energy concern.

I am firm in presenting my opinions but the only things personal about yesterday were in going through the motions of social niceties to at least lose graciously.

Instead we can't even get that much, it turned into some interpersonal drama of a nonexistent attack where you somehow thought a short speech about how valuable I was and how you weren't throwing me away in the scum pile (and therefore I should try hard for your sake). The first part makes me extremely uncomfortable, I am just another player, I am tired of paying social niceties simply because the absence is read as something more vicious, and the second is a very visceral "fuck no" regardless of who the player is.

Fundamentally none of this was AI, none of this was personal, and I hate that I just spent 30 minutes disentangling it when I'd rather just leave it because it doesn't matter.

If I play onsite again it will not be under the name Prism.

[Iverson]

trying to figure out what in here constitutes being afraid of Infinity

even that first townread is fairly hedged

I have specifically highlighted the posts repeatedly. Go read 110 to 115. The sequence copied in 507 is Leafeon wondering whether they should be scared/be ready to 1v1 if needed. 510 reinforces this fear.

The townread is hedged because Glaceon was hoping to ameliorate Infinity by recognizing Infinity's points+starting to post and address them.

If you disagree with my read of those posts, OK. I don't want to discuss this further with you.

[Iverson]

VOTE: DC

[Iverson]

ydra coming in and kinda soft townreading prism is interesting, as i don't think there are that many other places for today to go if not that slot

There is literally nothing to lose by doing so.

Again if you are so set on this slot shut up grow a spine and just do it instead of pretending that if I grovel hard enough or read the game 3 times over maybe you'll go elsewhere.

[Iverson]

They're a scumread of mine. I was already wanting to go there since people weren't finding Cakez palatable. If they wind up being town, then okay.

[Iverson]

Given that one scum is probably Momrangal I'm not optimistic that scum will get it done in a timely manner even if they get the opportunity. For practical reasons I'm willing to just assume they had time at the 12 hour mark.

[Iverson]

They're a scumread of mine. I was already wanting to go there since people weren't finding Cakez palatable. If they wind up being town, then okay.

i mean i'm not really ok with it but ok

I will introspect after seeing the result but fundamentally I am fine shooting my shot and I understand that that means frequently missing.

[Iverson]

Is there some silver bullet I am missing for why DC is town? In about ~12 minutes I am taking off for the day which means my vote will stay.

[Iverson]

I will pass on a funny excerpt of my notes which was
"196 what the fuck skitter "why would he get annoyed as scum""

[Iverson]

Given that Cakez's last two pages are super town I might have to revisit notscience, wack.

[Iverson]

Either way I'm glad we're doing this instead of the gladiate, I wouldn't say I'm 100% sold on you being town but high five for now Cakez

Now after seeing everyone react to my narrative walls about intent/playstyle please do not read Iceland there is nothing to see that game and everyone is right that it is way beyond anything I could do as scum, no need to look further thank you.

[Iverson]

I don't really feel like Cakez tries to set up something against notscience later over just......staying on me and winning the game when VFT/Kismet vote

So yeah

[Iverson]

Is there some silver bullet I am missing for why DC is town? In about ~12 minutes I am taking off for the day which means my vote will stay.

i don't think he approaches nm the way he does as scum; i don't think he comes into this game deciding to bus him. he was very, very, very resolutely for that push and refused multiple entreaties to divert the wagon off of nm.

I don't get the first part given that this setup incentivizes being aggressive against partners and it looks like he had prior experience to live up to/stay consistent with.

I don't know which wagon you're referring to here but Day 2 I did not see it as TvS and DC was basically a nonentity yesterday, at least from whenever I replaced in.

i also think that he isn't playing around me the way he would as scum - i.e. he isn't making all of his play *abt me*; he is very, very, very willing to be contrary to me and do whatever he likes no matter what i might think abt it.

i think scum-him basically tries to pocket me and tries to get on my good side and that usually manifests by making his reads match mine and trying to push my agenda. that isn't happenign here. he actually doesn't particularly care what i'm doing and isn't trying to match his play to mine. i think this is very +town for him

His positioning around you earlygame I felt was performatively contrarian precisely in the hopes of this, and 2181 he made a significant effort towards either getting on the same page or believing you were scum if he couldn't. Letting you have free rein for the sake of a pocket also doesn't work in this setup anyway.

[Iverson]

fwiw, i actually did go read iceland after the stuff you posted at me last night and didn't really see anything in that vein.

I, uh, yeah. Nothing in that vein, good job, no need to revisit.

[Iverson]

I haven't eaten today and have instead cleared through like a month of P5R so I'm going to be honest the chance of me rereading atm is zero sorry I am very lightheaded but I am PRESENT

[Iverson]

If you actually want me to go on an egoistic spiel about how it's totally not out of range I can but that summarizes it and we can skip it wow amazing ok go us

[Iverson]

well even better glad we're on board if you want me to fully analyze a finished game so i can egostroke over joking about it and moving on maybe later

[Iverson]

i was making a quick joke can we stop

[Iverson]

I can honestly go for either but I actively scumread DC

Momrangal I am literally just assuming she is scum because everyone else has been extremely town meanwhile Momrangal has not posted for essentially two full gamedays (I think they had like, 3 posts of commentary yesterday) and did not have anything in the first 25 pages that I found memorable

[Iverson]

notscience I felt a lot better as he engaged w/ Bulge and something earlier today iirc but his opening Day 2 was still all kinds of wack and idc if Skitter disagrees

I thought it was the Cakeman but it is time to Whip Out The Magnifying Glass instead of assuming notscience is a brick left on a keyboard

[Iverson]

anyway i'm back on infinity town i don't think i ever vote there today.

proud of u

there's a small chance i'm wrong, the l+g interactions are fundamentally super subjective, but today has just been

super fuckin clean

from infinity scum to where even if it's something i can envision i really don't even want to try

[Iverson]

I know, I was making a reference to how I thought people weren't holding NM to a high enough standard (thinking he was a brick) whereas with notscience I was like "eh looks like he is vaguely sorting now" and called it a day

[Iverson]

I took your word for it that the temerity of starting out with bravado/Cobra Kai with me into something a bit more mouselike when I really started pressing him was town but maybe the boi was scared scum

[Iverson]

either way we don't vote him today we go dc/mom into the other and wind up in a 4 way with me/cakeman/notscience/? and have a clown fiesta imo

[Iverson]

I'm not scumreading his lack of activity, this is more of a PoE+too low of standards thing where I really let that godawful early d2 slide and maybe I shouldn't have

[Iverson]

I am fucking starving ok I will pause the hour timer, get food, and restart it when I get back

[Iverson]

aight we back, great timing for that break since now i can read the wall yee yee

[Iverson]

??? is someone suggesting bork is mafia what the fuck

[Iverson]

Prism I have no fucking clue but nacho was convinced salsa was town

elaborate, weird to have no opinion given how much i caught you on the backfoot day 2 and your recognition of how i was interacting with bulge

[Iverson]

For Skitter I see the contrast you're making between those two games and this one. It seems like you gave direct feedback on at least part of the scumgame. I'm not calling it scummy obviously but I wouldn't really put it past Mena to make adjustments to his scumplay to reflect very recent meta, especially when if he had to pick between his career or tricking you in a single game he'd probably pick the latter.

[Iverson]

No shit I'm not the towniest I'm wondering how you are actively no clue on me after seeing like 4 towngames in a row but somehow now this is an issue

[Iverson]

(Also I got context for 3237 dw about it)

[Iverson]

You see me try to gladiate Cakez, fail, vote DC, and start setting up to flip a TR on you and you're like "Man I just don't know, haven't seen her scumgame"

P-Edit: Aight well we can revisit this later

[Iverson]

Probably going to skip today, not feeling too great.

notsci needs to out what his scumreads are but other than that go wild, me not being here is basically underhand pitching the ball

[Iverson]

well it's ok notscience is also off work tomorrow

[Iverson]

I'm fine going on Momrangal despite Infinity's opposition, if VFT is scum I'm fine with this it's not even good play just overkill because pushing me was a win.

VOTE: Momrangal

Now that I know there's no daytalk I think any idea of quickhammers is stupid because it requires very specific coordination at night w/ the scumteam to appropriately signal to the point where it's not even worth the trouble.

As much as I love putting pine tar on the figurative baseball as scum I think it is incredibly, incredibly obvious that I have been clueless all day re: daytalk.

[Iverson]

My only hesitance here is I think VFT is probably wrong on DC, and today is the best chance of strongarming that vote through, but w/e

[Iverson]

Literally VFT goes "I feel really good about Iverson Kismet" and the game is over so idk what VFT would be doing as scum besides trying their hardest to gamethrow

[Iverson]

if VFT is scum I'm fine with this it's not even good play just overkill because pushing me was a win.

I'm not sure there was actually support for an elim on you? Maybe early on I would've voted you? Idk

Cakez/Kismet were both on me and willing to go on me. Hypothetically the scumteam could be Cakez/DC/VFT but I strongly doubt it.

VFT flipping the read over just letting me happen is one of the moves that might look cool as scum but is throwing away a win that is incredibly obvious, ie. not merely overlooked

[Iverson]

I guess that explains how I was a stronger TR because I was also confused as hell over that

That said it is not Kismet.

[Iverson]

I can't see a viable third partner for DC/mom

That is...actually a fair point?

notscience is viable/hypothetically Cakez might not want to 1v1 me even on advantageous ground but I'm trying not to 3 person solve the game right now

[Iverson]

To be clear while it is a fair point it is still not Kismet

[Iverson]

I am a "One point at a time" kind of player right now even if hypothetically you can work backwards and divine teams I'm not going there atm

[Iverson]

Everytime I see Big Rigs I get reminded that my favorite YouTube video of all time got deleted and it breaks my heart

Static image of the trophy superimposed on to the Picard facepalm while The Price is Right theme plays

I have never gotten over this loss

[Iverson]

That requires notscience to have a spine

[Iverson]

Wait it's legitimately E-1 lmfao I thought it was E-2 my ass can't count

knew there was a reason i failed that one math class 5 separate times in college

[Iverson]

in my defense the 5th time i got a d- and passed the class because it was the professor's first quarter and he couldn't figure out how to put an f in the gradebook

so i only failed 4 times

[Iverson]

dope well unless you think all 3 scum are on the wagon drop the hammer thanks

[Iverson]

more persona 5 royal for me i guess damn

[Iverson]

my time's up so cya for the night but ya unless you think all 3 scum are on the wagon any townsperson should hammer this

[Iverson]

Probably not going to be around today. I guess scum realized if they don't try they might lose. Know I need to revisit Infinity, while some might argue the end of day was too crazy to be scum I am not one of those people and the overconfidence in the game ending was scummy to me.

Momrangal getting flipped at all is disgusting for whoever scum is and that never should have happened because you could have capitalized on Kismet.

[Iverson]

Your wish will be granted.

[Iverson]

Infinity, you should stop posting and go do something else for several hours.

[Iverson]

Some of us would like to win and your current posting actively tanks the chance of it one after another like a race to the bottom. I can't stop you, but it is incredibly annoying to see you play this way if you are town and we would all benefit from you stepping back and reevaluating how you play this out.

[Iverson]

I would not even advise sticking around for questions because at most one of these posters is town and the others are scum taking advantage of you and your current state. I am not terribly worried about getting in DC's way even if he is town here.

I feel strongly enough about stopping this that I broke my rule about not posting, but this will be my final time for the day.

[Iverson]

This game is disgusting and needs to be put down. Scum is actually trying now and I'm fine giving them the win for it.

I have severely meaner words but I will save them other than to call unwnd the king of obsequious bootlickers and not someone to be looked to for advice, that one I can't resist.

[Iverson]

You know, attacking someone not even in the game is over the line, I apologize and your name will not come out of my mouth again in any context if you happen to be keeping tabs unwnd.

[Iverson]

Yeah, definitely regretful of that, not just sorry for it being in poor taste. As sincerely as I can, I am sorry if you happen to be reading, and you will not deal with it again either in or out of game.

[Iverson]

It was in response to Mena citing a tip from him.

[Iverson]

Hypothetically I could attack the tip instead but this is a project for a later time when I'm not feeling equally vicious and would just turn my attention towards degrading Mena instead.