that hesitancy to vote bugs, but not doing anything about actually reading bugs... feels like scum to me
I don't like hammering in general and I didn't find anything new of interest aside from what I've already said
Unless I haven't said what I've thought I said then fair enough
I don’t like hammering unless I’m extremely confident or it’s near deadline. I once quickhammered obvscum and then had to fight of ludicrous bussing accusations but I just knew, like I was 99.9999% confident and I was right.
In post 181, GrandpaMo wrote:ok so im neighbors with andante and they are scum btw they just confessed to me
VOTE: andante
How many mafia games have you played, grandpa?
this is my first :p
Can confirm, I've played in his 0 game before
flow.. pls look at what vander said... do you think this is scum lmao
If Mo is scum, this is kind’ve anti-associative with Flow, don’t you think?
@Andante
I think flow is flipping scum. 100% based off the reaction about hammering bugs then never saying whether he TR or SRed them
Well, that could explain why I thought bugs/Vanders could be TvT but I thought impossible based on setup spec but yeah he should have some kind of reaction to the self-hammer. I’m still hoping it came from scum but I honestly think bugs gamethrew.
I’m really hoping you’re right and they didn’t straight up gamethrow. I’ve never seen them self-hammer as either alignment but if scum, then I think Mo is likely buddy because Vanders would of course be confitown.
I’m starting to think that maybe bugs could still be scum and possibly falling on their sword for their buddy. I’m basing this on never ever having seen bugs self-hammer before. And it wasn’t the kind’ve angry self-hammer I’ve usually seen come from town. Like when town!Xtoxm self-hammered, he was absolutely furious, almost like he was trowing some kind of tantrum and pretty much ditto for most of the town self-hamlers I’ve seen.
And bugs didn’t sound angry in the slightest and the self-hammer was really awkward. I really think they wanted Vanders flipped. I think if Vanders was the cw, they probably wouldn’t have self-hammered.
In post 528, GrandpaMo wrote:this is a hard game to solve ngl. i think we have more info by day 2 or something
lazy excuse to not want to solve d1. are you scum?
what? where have i said that? don't take my words out of context. saying a game is hard to solve =/= trying to solve.
i just said we will have more info by day 2. bad question
this argument feels awkward/artifical and weirdly drops off immediately
i don't like Mo's initial comment and agree it sounds weird but the follow up from both sides feels like it's going somewhere then there's no follow up from either of them and that reads weirdly
no fucking way. i really had hope in you hopkirk. now you???? you can't fucking read either??? there was obvious follow up! in fact andante came of in to that perspective. pls look at post 541. bugs never responds to me. why am i the one that looks scum here...
In post 755, Hopkirk wrote:i don't like vanders starting to ask 'why do you TR hop'/testing the waters on me
In post 721, Andante wrote:oh hey!! bugspray is E-1!!! I didn't intend to do that lol but yeah, I'm down with a bugs yeet, if bugs is FN someone may wanna speak up
Bugs and Vanders are claimed neighbors so that isn’t possible and whomever is fn should obviously not claim.
ill unvote for now, just in case someone is gonna hammer
UNVOTE: bugs
why are you concerned about a hammer here?
are you seriously kidding me. have you not read anything. i guess i can't be fucking hammer... i literally have said multiple times. i literally said that the real reason is that i want to be hammer and was waiting for someone else to vote and then come in and hammer because it would have been the first time i hammer.
In post 758, bugspray wrote:this is gonna be really fucking weird when i flip green
i don't like vander's tunneling. it's anti town nai behavior which is a favorite scum activity
mo's posturing aroudn the hammer is fucked. it seems like he really wants me to die.
i think what could have happened is that he unvoted and then scum partner in pt was like what ar eyou doing we can yeet this sucker and
now he changed the story to i want to hammer not what if there is a hammer
VOTE: grandmamo
i can give less two shits about the hammer on you xD. like i said, i just wanted to be the one to hammer lmfao and i think that we flip you regardless of allignment. since i dont think my scumread would move anywhere. also look at ur phrase "i want to hammer not what if there is a hammer." arent i getting scumread for me saying what if there is a hammer??? ur point is? that phrase contradicts ur first statement. i highlighted it in bold.
In post 761, bugspray wrote:the fact my wagon stalled and nobody else is being pushed means that i'm town. if i was scum then me or my partner would actively push other slots.
no thats nai. the fact that ur wagon could have stalled is because scum never voted you and found opportunity (me not voting) to pivot onto me and use that as a viable excuse to be scumread. that is what is happening rn.
Why are you so eager to be the hammer? And if I put bugs at e - 1, then why are you saying you want to wait to hear what they’re saying?
In post 774, Loki Dokie wrote:That said, I definitely have reservations about voting you. If my theory is correct, I’m leaning to Mo/Vanders rn because there’s absolutely nothing “poor” about my setup spec theory. @Vanders.
But rn, Mo looks the worst to me out of the four and Robert the best. So I lean Mo/Vanders as the team and should I die, I want bragging rights if this is correct.
I think he was very clearly trying to rolefish Andante earlier and he keeps backtracking on things. Like potentially sr his neighbor - after I gave my setup spec theory.
Mo also never explained why he thought my slot “needed pressure”. It just read like a really lazy vote to me. I still maintain his and Vanders had the most suspicious votes on me and looked the worst.
Why did you quote all of this?
because i accidently submitted. why do u tihnk i didnt reply and why do u think that was the first message then me replying agian with the updated info.
u haven't answered anything in there but no ur still scumcasing me and again providing no info.
if this flips town, ur probably scum honestly.[/quote]
I really dislike you continuing to push me. I am not taking orders from you of all people and you’re not going to bully me into doing jack, so don’t bother.
u litearlly changed ur reads like 8 times now and have said i was town at first and bugs was scum then u said it was me and vanders and now u are saying bugs is scum .
idfk but can u hammer ? because everyone literally got on to me bout not hammering and i dont like how u got off the hook for that but i was bashed about it and its honestly annoying since like i dont think i have done anything rlly scummy. i have replied to everyone, gave my defense and direction while ppl still somehow seem to ignore everything i say. thats why im not even trying that much anymore this game. and probably won't go into my analytical phase anytime soon
In post 528, GrandpaMo wrote:this is a hard game to solve ngl. i think we have more info by day 2 or something
lazy excuse to not want to solve d1. are you scum?
what? where have i said that? don't take my words out of context. saying a game is hard to solve =/= trying to solve.
i just said we will have more info by day 2. bad question
this argument feels awkward/artifical and weirdly drops off immediately
i don't like Mo's initial comment and agree it sounds weird but the follow up from both sides feels like it's going somewhere then there's no follow up from either of them and that reads weirdly
no fucking way. i really had hope in you hopkirk. now you???? you can't fucking read either??? there was obvious follow up! in fact andante came of in to that perspective. pls look at post 541. bugs never responds to me. why am i the one that looks scum here...
In post 755, Hopkirk wrote:i don't like vanders starting to ask 'why do you TR hop'/testing the waters on me
In post 721, Andante wrote:oh hey!! bugspray is E-1!!! I didn't intend to do that lol but yeah, I'm down with a bugs yeet, if bugs is FN someone may wanna speak up
Bugs and Vanders are claimed neighbors so that isn’t possible and whomever is fn should obviously not claim.
ill unvote for now, just in case someone is gonna hammer
UNVOTE: bugs
why are you concerned about a hammer here?
are you seriously kidding me. have you not read anything. i guess i can't be fucking hammer... i literally have said multiple times. i literally said that the real reason is that i want to be hammer and was waiting for someone else to vote and then come in and hammer because it would have been the first time i hammer.
In post 758, bugspray wrote:this is gonna be really fucking weird when i flip green
i don't like vander's tunneling. it's anti town nai behavior which is a favorite scum activity
mo's posturing aroudn the hammer is fucked. it seems like he really wants me to die.
i think what could have happened is that he unvoted and then scum partner in pt was like what ar eyou doing we can yeet this sucker and
now he changed the story to i want to hammer not what if there is a hammer
VOTE: grandmamo
i can give less two shits about the hammer on you xD. like i said, i just wanted to be the one to hammer lmfao and i think that we flip you regardless of allignment. since i dont think my scumread would move anywhere. also look at ur phrase "i want to hammer not what if there is a hammer." arent i getting scumread for me saying what if there is a hammer??? ur point is? that phrase contradicts ur first statement. i highlighted it in bold.
In post 761, bugspray wrote:the fact my wagon stalled and nobody else is being pushed means that i'm town. if i was scum then me or my partner would actively push other slots.
no thats nai. the fact that ur wagon could have stalled is because scum never voted you and found opportunity (me not voting) to pivot onto me and use that as a viable excuse to be scumread. that is what is happening rn.
Why are you so eager to be the hammer? And if I put bugs at e - 1, then why are you saying you want to wait to hear what they’re saying?
In post 774, Loki Dokie wrote:That said, I definitely have reservations about voting you. If my theory is correct, I’m leaning to Mo/Vanders rn because there’s absolutely nothing “poor” about my setup spec theory. @Vanders.
But rn, Mo looks the worst to me out of the four and Robert the best. So I lean Mo/Vanders as the team and should I die, I want bragging rights if this is correct.
I think he was very clearly trying to rolefish Andante earlier and he keeps backtracking on things. Like potentially sr his neighbor - after I gave my setup spec theory.
Mo also never explained why he thought my slot “needed pressure”. It just read like a really lazy vote to me. I still maintain his and Vanders had the most suspicious votes on me and looked the worst.
Why did you quote all of this?
because i accidently submitted. why do u tihnk i didnt reply and why do u think that was the first message then me replying agian with the updated info.
u haven't answered anything in there but no ur still scumcasing me and again providing no info.
if this flips town, ur probably scum honestly.[/quote]
You’re screaming at me to hammer than saying if they flip town, I’m scum? What kind of townie ever makes these two posts back to back? Sorry but no, you’re blatantly obvious attempts to try to miselim won’t work.
In post 863, Hopkirk wrote:do you think it was
- faked by scum!bugs to look town
- scumbugs trying to leave the game
or something else?
pedit - why were you asking for a hammer if it's more town now
Mo wanted me to hammer than in the very next post, said I’m scum if bugs is town. I don’t even think Donald Trump could come up with something that ludicrous.
I don’t know if what is happening between bugs and Mo is some insane scum theatre or if bugs is actually town but I have never ever even once seen a game, where a player demanded I hammer and in the very next post claim that if the slot they wanted me to hammer flipped town, I’m probably scum. What townie in the history of mafia thinks like that?
In post 874, Loki Dokie wrote:I don’t know if what is happening between bugs and Mo is some insane scum theatre or if bugs is actually town but I have never ever even once seen a game, where a player demanded I hammer and in the very next post claim that if the slot they wanted me to hammer flipped town, I’m probably scum. What townie in the history of mafia thinks like that?
thats a regular claim... i wasn't even pertaining to that. if you read the full post... i was getting frustrated at the fact that everyone points me out for not hammering (including u i believe) then u switch up ur reads for like the 4th or 5th time, and don't even vote but stay on me for whatever reason.
Quote that post. Where did I ever say that? Town doesn’t demand someone hammers and in the very next post say if the slot they didn’t hammer flips town, they’re scum, No freaking way.
In post 875, bugspray wrote:None. mo!caught!scum needs more votes and then I want the n1 kill that I earned so I can fuck around in the dead pt
As long as I’m alive in this game, I’m never unvoting them.
antitown
Why should I think you’re town especially now after those two back to back posts I just referenced. You’re acting scummy af, so no nothing remotely antitown about wanting to vote the slot that is being off the charts scummy. I’m still not sure whether or not bugs is your buddy but they are more likely to be town than you, which is why with over a week left, why would I want to switch my vote - especially when my strongest sr is demanding I hammer?
Is there a possibility that you’re off the charts uberscummy town, sure but I really don’t think so.
Why are you so eager to be the hammer? And if I put bugs at e - 1, then why are you saying you want to wait to hear what they’re saying?
this
What were you wanting to hear and now you yelled at me to hammer them. It’s nowhere near deadline, so why would I switch my vote when I feel far more confident on you flipping scum than bugs?
The fact that you’re not even entertaining the possibility that I’m deathtunnelled town instead of scum when it’s beyond obvious I’m town here, also isn’t helping.
But I would be seriously shocked if your town with the way you’ve been treating my slot and I just think your reads on both me and bugs don’t read genuine to me.
Why are you so eager to be the hammer? And if I put bugs at e - 1, then why are you saying you want to wait to hear what they’re saying?
this
What were you wanting to hear and now you yelled at me to hammer them. It’s nowhere near deadline, so why would I switch my vote when I feel far more confident on you flipping scum than bugs?
because ur inconsistent with ur reads. u say im more scum than bugs one time and you even sheep bugs saying its me and vander then onto the recent post (the reason why i even made that post for u to hammer) where u literally said that you thought bugs was scum.
so why not vote for them.
i was just eager for a flip to happen already.
I repeat, it’s nowhere near deadline and you’re currently my strongest sr. Why would I vote anywhere else?
In post 891, Loki Dokie wrote:The fact that you’re not even entertaining the possibility that I’m deathtunnelled town instead of scum when it’s beyond obvious I’m town here, also isn’t helping.
But I would be seriously shocked if your town with the way you’ve been treating my slot and I just think your reads on both me and bugs don’t read genuine to me.
i have literally said that
why do u tihnk im ingorning u or trying to.
its a pointless convo that won't get us anywhere.
i will be playing more passive until someone else explains their trajectory.
Why did you demand I hammer, then say if bugs flips town, I’m probably scum?
In post 918, Loki Dokie wrote:if you say me or anyone I strongly tr, my vote’s going on you.
pretty gross and manipulative. a good post to make if mo and i are both somehow town
Is that directed to me or Mo? I can’t trust anyone is isn’t reading me correctly. That much should be obvious. If either or both of you are lying to me then I can’t take whomever is seriously.
Fact is that every single time I voted Mo, you put me in your PoE? Why? And now he’s saying to me that he’s going to (or was?) going to push me if you flip town. I need to know which one of you - if either - is approaching my slot in good faith and until I’m clear on that I’ll probably just sheep my strongest trs who I can have confidence aren’t lying to me.
What isn’t making sense to me is that you put two people in your PoE - one who actually and I’m wondering now maybe stupidly? tried to save you (me) and the other who unvoted you (Hopkirk).
See I can’t tell which of you - if either - is actually town - and if not are somehow trying to set me up. You and Mo are the only ones who I feel has possibly trying to do that to me and I don’t understand why town would do that. So that’s where I’m at right now with both of you.
In post 921, Andante wrote:bugs tried to self for towncred... yeah no. I wanna lim bugs then deal withit
I’m not sure if either is town and if we’re actually looking at a bus. Their interactions have been really strange, which is why I think it could possibly be scum theatre.
In post 918, Loki Dokie wrote:@bugs, @Mo, who is scum and if you say me or anyone I strongly tr, my vote’s going on you.
this is either conformation bias from misguided town or outright scum trying to narrow votepool.
I’d wish I could vote both of you. And I’m really sick of you continuing to misrep my posts. Are you intentionally ignoring what I’ve saying because I think I’ve made my point abundantly clear. so you’re either scum or aren’t reading my posts? Which is it?
In post 918, Loki Dokie wrote:if you say me or anyone I strongly tr, my vote’s going on you.
pretty gross and manipulative. a good post to make if mo and i are both somehow town
Is that directed to me or Mo? I can’t trust anyone is isn’t reading me correctly. That much should be obvious. If either or both of you are lying to me then I can’t take whomever is seriously.
Fact is that every single time I voted Mo, you put me in your PoE? Why? And now he’s saying to me that he’s going to (or was?) going to push me if you flip town. I need to know which one of you - if either - is approaching my slot in good faith and until I’m clear on that I’ll probably just sheep my strongest trs who I can have confidence aren’t lying to me.
What isn’t making sense to me is that you put two people in your PoE - one who actually and I’m wondering now maybe stupidly? tried to save you (me) and the other who unvoted you (Hopkirk).
See I can’t tell which of you - if either - is actually town - and if not are somehow trying to set me up. You and Mo are the only ones who I feel has possibly trying to do that to me and I don’t understand why town would do that. So that’s where I’m at right now with both of you.
the problem is that with is that you have this playstyle of being offended when someone scumreads and you get in a state of paranoia where you are always feeling that you are being set up in which trust me i would to if i was in ur position. and that is what is throwing me off because like i could easily townread u for that right? but idk if you are doing stuff like this to keep throwing town in a disarray because like i gave you the benefit of the doubt multiple times with ur inconsistency and stuff. and you are using surface level logic to get your associations nd etc. like have you ever looked at this for individual reads and not just pairings and interactions?
i might have to iso ur other games later and probably give analysis and see if you are act like this when u are town; i think im ready to take this game seriously.
Okay, finally a post I don’t hate.
Maybe I should just vote bugs because I think that “hammer” was as sketchey af.
In post 721, Andante wrote:oh hey!! bugspray is E-1!!! I didn't intend to do that lol but yeah, I'm down with a bugs yeet, if bugs is FN someone may wanna speak up
Bugs and Vanders are claimed neighbors so that isn’t possible and whomever is fn should obviously not claim.
ill unvote for now, just in case someone is gonna hammer
UNVOTE: bugs
I love it!
I think Loki's statement that everyone outside of the four people he mentioned doing a fantastic job of fooling him if they are scum, or whatever it was, is exceptionally poor.
George in particular, but you as well.
Why do you think this applies?
What do you think you've done this game that should put you above suspicion?
why are you concerned about a hammer here?
Why are you misrepping Hopkirk’s post? I just clicked 755 and he never said that.
If he dislikes me pushing back on your extremely strong townread on him, either he needs to think that he is very towny in some way, or he should think that I'm right and not dislike it.
I’m referring to that he didn’t make that quote but it could be something to do with the vote tags being messed up.
In post 936, Hopkirk wrote:@vanders - where she shifted to sounding genuine to you (i was getting that impression pretty early on)
if i provably can't be scum because of a meta tell that i'm aware of and refuse to change then i'd be modkilled. i can't point out why i'm 100% town, but there's also no reason i have to for what i'm saying to be valid
someone asked about reads
Lokie/Andante- townreads
Flow - lesser townread that i should revisit because i can't remember specific posts i can point to that explain it. kind of under the radar recently
Rob/GB - null
Mo - scumreading
Vanders/Bugs - i'm trying to sort this. before the hammer stuff i scumread both but couldn't both be scum. need to look more at
My issue is irrespective of alignment is that both of them have been transparently manipulate but bugs especially so. It’s seriously making me not want to be in this game. I’m just really fucking sick of it.
In post 936, Hopkirk wrote:@vanders - where she shifted to sounding genuine to you (i was getting that impression pretty early on)
if i provably can't be scum because of a meta tell that i'm aware of and refuse to change then i'd be modkilled. i can't point out why i'm 100% town, but there's also no reason i have to for what i'm saying to be valid
someone asked about reads
Lokie/Andante- townreads
Flow - lesser townread that i should revisit because i can't remember specific posts i can point to that explain it. kind of under the radar recently
Rob/GB - null
Mo - scumreading
Vanders/Bugs - i'm trying to sort this. before the hammer stuff i scumread both but couldn't both be scum. need to look more at
Andante started sounding genuine at #405.
I'm assuming meta tells only apply to things that have no in-game relevance, right?
And that’s why Mo’s response about my possibly trying to “narrow the voting pool” or whatever bs is so gross. I said trs - plural because town usually mindmelds on obvious town, so my thinking was that if either bugs or Mo said I tr you but the slot’s you’re extremely confidently tr are scum, I’d know I was being pocketed and I didn’t want to be fooled by that.
In post 941, Vanderscamp wrote:Not that George is super towny or anything but I am at the point where bug and mo are both so scummy that he looks very town in comparison.
I think if I am wrong on one of them it's flow (I agree with andante)
A log is less scummy than the way either of those two have been playing so extremely low bar but yeah agree.
I want to kill them both regardless of what the first one flips.
+1
I never actually thought I’d ever be mindmelding with you on anything in this game.
the problem with this loki is that vanders never really expressed that.
vanders just probably looked at what happened, glimpse over it and sheeped both of u and andante and is now trying to distance themselves from me because they were being alligned by bugs and you at one point
I’ve just been thinking about Andante’s post about bugs’ “hammer” and seriously struggle with seeing how that ever comes from town because it just sounds really fake. And even if you hypothetically flipped scum, why tf would they ever be the nk? Only way is if Vanders flipped scum, so I’m really thinking they could be scum now because they’ve been so over the top manipulative this entire game.
In post 959, GrandpaMo wrote:there was two posts i did like from vanders - i forgot which exact but one was regarding andante's reaction to what i had said and it coming from the same town mindset as i had; intuitive thought.
I want to kill them both regardless of what the first one flips.
+1
I never actually thought I’d ever be mindmelding with you on anything in this game.
the problem with this loki is that vanders never really expressed that.
vanders just probably looked at what happened, glimpse over it and sheeped both of u and andante and is now trying to distance themselves from me because they were being alligned by bugs and you at one point
Idk I just think bugs is off the charts scummy and I don’t want to deal with it anymore.
In post 970, Loki Dokie wrote:I’m also not saying it’s impossible for Vanders or you - for that matter, to be scum but neither of you is making me want to replace out.
@Mo
so like are you saying bugs is more scum than me now?
I’m voting for them. I thought I saw some signs of possible genuineness, so I’m having doubts. The fact that bugs kept putting me in his PoE everytime I voted you, really bothers me. Something pings me extremely wrong with that.
In post 868, flow trap wrote:I was thinking Bugs was scum, but now I'm not too sure
It's easy to get into a "what if this is an exception" mindset on a scumread doing a widely town thing, so I think I'll give them the benefit of the doubt
Can you talk about when you were thinking bugs was scum?
Was this before or after you declined to vote them?
I didn’t decline to vote for them, I thought they were hammered, I believe I started to SR them at post 356.
In post 936, Hopkirk wrote:@vanders - where she shifted to sounding genuine to you (i was getting that impression pretty early on)
if i provably can't be scum because of a meta tell that i'm aware of and refuse to change then i'd be modkilled. i can't point out why i'm 100% town, but there's also no reason i have to for what i'm saying to be valid
someone asked about reads
Lokie/Andante- townreads
Flow - lesser townread that i should revisit because i can't remember specific posts i can point to that explain it. kind of under the radar recently
Rob/GB - null
Mo - scumreading
Vanders/Bugs - i'm trying to sort this. before the hammer stuff i scumread both but couldn't both be scum. need to look more at
Andante started sounding genuine at #405.
I'm assuming meta tells only apply to things that have no in-game relevance, right?
And that’s why Mo’s response about my possibly trying to “narrow the voting pool” or whatever bs is so gross.
I said trs - plural because town usually mindmelds on obvious town, so my thinking was that if either bugs or Mo said I tr you but the slot’s you’re extremely confidently tr are scum, I’d know I was being pocketed and I didn’t want to be fooled by that.
He was hardpushing me to hammer bugs but once bugs only had him as the only scum. he votes you.
I actually thought Flow was Andante’s neighbour and GB was fn but I think Andante nk, looks objectively the worst for Flow, so I could do either since I really disliked that last post.
That's not good, I town read bugspray. The self vote seals it.
