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[Sirius9121]

[Not_Mafia]

NorwegianboyEE
AliceK
VP Baltar
Not_Mafia
Luca Blight

VOTE: Luca Blight

[Not_Mafia]

NorwegianboyEE
VP Baltar
Not_Mafia
Luca Blight

VOTE: Luca Blight

[NorwegianboyEE]

I'm gonna have to analyze both Luca and Baltars ISO's now. Joy.

[NorwegianboyEE]

N_M can you please explain your reads and why you instantly default to Luca? Is there any particular reason it can't be Baltar?

[Not_Mafia]

Why analyse when you can vote?

[NorwegianboyEE]

Ok so i went through Baltars ISO and picked up all of the posts i found to be relevant with my skim.

Baltar:
On George:

Spoiler:

#1020
#1067
#1074
#1831
#2149
#2353

On Ico:

Spoiler:

#662
#769
#803
#1029
#1829
#1870
#1903
#1922
#2049
#2347
#2516
#2815
#2837

So from initial impressions, it seems to me that Baltar behaved shifty with George, switching from early scum reading to defending them an awful lot and calling their wagon "lazy" for example. But Ico they've scumread pretty much the whole time.
If scum then they seemed awfully keen to buss Ico, while being a bit more reserved with George.

Will catch up to any interesting posts from Luca later, i've gotta go celebrate Norwegian Constitution Day very soon.

Spoiler:

[NorwegianboyEE]

Why analyse when you can vote?

Because we're in ElO.

[Not_Mafia]

I'm never moving off Luca so you'll have to vote no lim if you want Baltar

[Luca Blight]

It’s pretty obviously Baltar from my perspective now, but I’ll review Norwee again just in case.

NM, why do you think I’m scum?

[NorwegianboyEE]

But like, can you explain why N_M? You're conf!town here so it's pretty annoying how you just vote and not really explain. If it's Baltar and we lim wrong because of you i'm going to be mad.

[Not_Mafia]

Be mad then

[VP Baltar]

I'll do some iso skimming today and see what I see. Gut from yesterday stands that Luca is scummier/less committed to positions than Norwee has been, but Norwee has also kind of played along the periphery for some of the game.

NM, can you tell me what first pinged you about Luca?

[VP Baltar]

IIRC, Luca was also the tipping for the geraintm misyeet, which is really what put us on our current bad path.

[Luca Blight]

How is limming geraint -> gypyx any worse than gypyx -> geraint?

[VP Baltar]

How is limming geraint -> gypyx any worse than gypyx -> geraint?

Because Geraint was unlikely to flip scum ever. I said as much. Gypyx had to go, but we really didn't need to flip geraintm.

Had we gone the other order, scum would have had a much harder time getting a misyeet yesterday, fmpov.

[NorwegianboyEE]

I'll do some iso skimming today and see what I see. Gut from yesterday stands that Luca is scummier/less committed to positions than Norwee has been, but Norwee has also kind of played along the periphery for some of the game.

I'm not sure what periphery means, but i've pushed for limming Ico and George during times where it would be really inconvenient for me to do so if i was aligned with them so i'm definitely not going to be the vote today. Like i'm pretty sure i said Gypyx should not be voted in favour of Iconeum at some point.
Also i called out Ico's push on Luca as looking pretty bad and it didn't feel like bussing so i'm honestly leaning more on you than Luca for last scum here. Though i haven't gone through Luca's ISO in detail yet.

[NorwegianboyEE]

Alternatively, if we no lim and N_M dies then we can do ElO for real.

[VP Baltar]

Alternatively, if we no lim and N_M dies then we can do ElO for real.

I've thought about this in the off chance NM is lying and scum got a bonus kill to offset the doc/cop combo. But feels like the cop was probably nerfed enough that's unlikely. Idk if I really want to drag this game out longer if we are just going to be making the same exact decision tomorrow

[VP Baltar]

I'm not sure what periphery means,

It means you haven't really been a driving force in the game. Doesn't mean your pushes weren't correct. I already looked at you once after the Ico flip and I remember it seeming like you were unlikely to be scum based on what you had said. I just mostly want to look again and make sure I didn't miss anything because I strongly felt Gypyx was the partner at the time.

[VP Baltar]

Also i called out Ico's push on Luca as looking pretty bad and it didn't feel like bussing

This is a good point to raise. I want to see when Ico did this actually. I was pushing Ico from the start of the day, so he may have thought he was going down and needed to distance

[VP Baltar]

The lack of vote counts this game is STRUGGLE FOR ANALYSIS

[VP Baltar]

Ok, so I'm going through Ico first, and what I see is Ico calling Luca town for basically all of Day 1. Even has him as a top tier town read. (Edit as I'm doing this, I'm now just fully rereading D2)

ok i see you need some Ico!Shotgun reads in your life

wooper/datisi/luca/norwee
NM/VP/Gyp/IV
AliceK/Anya/GB

Geraint gets a special spot where i've never been more itchy to lim a prob town slot

Then on D2, IV and I come out and vote Ico with no hesitation and Luca votes Gypyx. Not a huge deal, but that is the exact moment that Ico and Luca start slap fighting around this post or so.

scum!me kills wooper because??

Because he thought you and George were partners?

so

i help town kill my partner
and then i kill the town who already connected me to scum!george

that is your theory?

That continues for about eight pages without really going anywhere. Anya votes Ico toward the back half of that exchange, putting Ico at three votes. Then we get this exchange:

VOTE: luca

I love how Icon dives deep to try and find dirt on me as he's unable to explain the mess that is 1748 lol

Ok let's do this

VOTE: Icon

Norwegian notes this is a weird and bad push.

VOTE: luca

Mehhh.

Incredibly bad Luca push.
Why is he scum?? Just because he is pushing you Ico?

Sadly, I get distracted hear by arguing with IV about gypyx's claim. This allows a ton of people, including Ico, to just lurk and I'm getting irrationally angry rereading this game and WHY CAN'T YOU ALL JUST POST MORE OFTEN.

Luca starts drafting off my pushes and that's bad for me.

I’m struggling to see beyond a gypyx/Icon team right now. It would kind of explain why it seems like Icon has given up here as that team is never winning this game. I’m a little paranoid of geraint as his posts are increasingly weird but I’m still thinking he’s more likely town

About to sleep, I’ll look a bit closer at IV tomorrow

Which I definitely pinged off of at the time, but put on my gypyx/Ico blinders.

Lol it is just you and I playing this game at this point. Luca, if you are scum, I will be very annoyed.

Norwegian joins the ICO wagon at E-2, also riding my coat tails a little bit with Ico/Gypyx solve. This is very much why we should have limmed Gypyx D3.

Official Vote Count

Iconeum

(4): VP Baltar, innocentvillager, Anya, Luca Blight

innocentvillager

(2): Gypyx, geraintm

Gypyx

(2): NorwegianboyEE, AliceK

Luca Blight

(1): Iconeum

Not Voting

(1): Not_Mafia

With 10 alive, it takes 6 to eliminate.

Deadline

: (expired on 2021-05-03 10:38:00)

Please note that the color

#800080

and all similar shades are considered off limits from now on.

I don’t see my vote going anywhere other than Gypyx or Ico today.
VOTE: Iconeum

Ico claims VT at this point and has this series of posts.

i'm vt

yeet away

vig luca

final scum probably someone like anya who's just coasting

i don't think it's someone like IV or gyp, norwee i don't know

AliceK also very much an option

just copying popular reads

I don't know about VP

they're never an easy read for me

not sure if both scum really push my yeet here?

luca/anya contains scum
aliceK keeps hands clean from my wagon, it's possible
maybe i'm wrong about gyp, but my defensive gut feeling is telling me this is town

Obviously Ico was WIFOMing almost everyone before going down there, which doesn't mean much. But it didn't occur to me until now that Luca and Ico basically stop having many interactions after their cross votes. IDK if there is much to gather from this ICO spew the more I'm thinking about it.

Anya takes the steam out of the Ico wagon right on the edge. *smh gif of your choice

VOTE: Alice

true that flip should be explained if she's skiing right in front of us and covering it up as ice skating

Luca very shortly after starts posting in a "work with me" type of vibe to Ico.

Icon maybe you can try and put your gypyx tr into words. I know you said it’s a gut read, but surely there’s something you can point to that leads you to Tr him? Because this is a big problem for me rn

Fypov consider that gypyx is coasting here knowing that an icon green flip reflects well on him tomorrow

So the progression is kind of slap fight > cross votes as wagon builds > back to slap fighting as wagon cools a bit

Luca also starts pushing Gypyx even though he is still voting Ico.

Well if it’s s/s then he’s basically forced to side with you here if he wants any chance of winning

I do think WK’ing is possible which is what’s concerning me here

Scum!gypyx is coasting and has been since the start. He’s got a pretty random Sr on IV but isn’t pushing it or giving an updated explanation for it?

He’s being defended by multiple slots as well for weird reasons

Then we get the Luca unvote, which is the nail in the coffin for that first Ico wagon.

Gypyx has been very much on the sidelines, Icon

UNVOTE:

For now while I mull things over

This all happens while I'm sleeping unfortunately.

luca how do you feel about that alice progression on my slot that i pointed out?

^still voting Luca at this point mind you.

I'll admit, this exchange between Luca and Ico is weird in a scum!Luca situation. Like, he would have already effectively moved attention onto Gypyx, so why continue with theater at that point? Maybe that's WIFOM, I'm not sure.

Spoiler:

But scum!icon was super defensive in the scum game he just won?

I also disagree that post shows icon is aware that being defensive is a bad look

He only made that post after already being called out for being defensive rather than providing content

plus nothing in that posts suggests he thinks it’s a particularly bad thing to do as scum?

i really don't wanna keep playing this card but like

luca

you *just* played a game with scum!me
i was under a TON of pressure day 1

did i respond so badly there?
i'm not saying you should townread me for it but using it as a means to scumread me is just wrong

*pedit
reallly? i think i was super agressive, not defensive?

I'm not SR'ing you for that though, Icon. It's mainly for lack of input + your George vote + your omgus against me

As I said I don't feel comfortable using meta as a yardstick for reading you as it's been a long time since I played with town!Icon

Gah! I feel like Luca was playing me a bit. Look at this sheeping me again after I come back from over night:

Lots of pages overnight. That's an improvement at least.

Look, I think Ico and Gypyx are either scum, or being kind of babies about fair questions from Luca. This defense of 'he doesn't want answers' is complete gaslighting. He isn't being unreasonable or even pushing that hard. Gypyx stalling for time basically everytime he gets asked a question bugs the hell out of me. *cough cough* George*cough*

I momentarily considered whether Geraint is getting too much of a free pass here, but I actually came to many of the same wagon conclusions he did in that last post.

I have a very hard time believing there are zero scum in {Ico, gypyx, IV}.

I may be willing to consider making Gypyx and IV the dueling wagons today.

In regards to Alice's progression...from what Ico posted, that doesn't look great. I'd need to ISO alice for full context though. I also think it is worth noting Alice is a noob, and sometimes unexplained progressions happen.

I’m starting to think it might be something like

gypyx/IV

And Norwegian posts this. I have a very hard time seeing this coming from scum at this point in the day when there is a very real opportunity to push away from Ico.

I don't really feel like Ico's towntold so i'm not really understanding why Gypyx is gaining votes again.

Somehow, Ico moved up to near null status for Luca. I have no idea why that is at this point in the day.

I'm considering all of these players town for now:

Not_Mafia, Norwee, Baltar
geraint

That leaves:

Gypyx

Iconeum

innocentvillager
Anya
AliceK

Right now I'm really not sure who I want yeeted out of this lot. I have a little time now so I'll go through the suspects and see if anything jumps out

And this is the conclusion of the Ico wagon, with the vote count almost directly preceding my vote. I think it's pretty clear here that I was the tipping force on the Ico wagon given that Anya/Alice had no juice in the game and I could have pushed toward IV at that point if I had wanted to.

Official Vote Count

Iconeum

(4): innocentvillager, Not_Mafia, Anya, AliceK

innocentvillager

(3): Gypyx, geraintm, Luca Blight

Gypyx

(1): VP Baltar

AliceK

(1): Iconeum

Not Voting

(1): NorwegianboyEE

With 10 alive, it takes 6 to end someone's subscription to death.

Deadline

: (expired on 2021-05-03 10:38:00)

UNVOTE:
VOTE: Iconeum

I'm going to be busy with work much of today and tomorrow. I don't think there is a world where we should yeet IV before Ico. They kind of have similar points against them around the George wagon, but IV is probably contributing more toward pushing the game forward.

E-1

Not Mafia fake hammers, which is a pro-town move at that point.

VOTE: Iconeum

Luca keeps arguing with IV and Norwegian basically said he can't see IV at that point and hammers.

This exchange also gives me pause. Why would scum!Luca say this?

Was there a need to hammer while we're still discussing, Norwee :/

Was there a need to hammer while we're still discussing, Norwee :/

It didn't seem all that important.

I was kind of hoping by reviewing D2 I'd have a very clear insight into who was scum here, but that hammer exchange...damn. I'll look at the Geraintm wagon next. That seems like it might help?

[NorwegianboyEE]

This exchange also gives me pause. Why would scum!Luca say this?

Yeah that's the problem, i feel like both of you have things that made it seem unlikely you'd be the last scum.
Which just goes to show that whichever one of you it is has been playing really well to distance.

[VP Baltar]

Ok, I reread D3, which is mercifully shorter.

I won't do another giant wall post because nobody actually wants to read that.

What I saw D3 was Norwegian hard pushing geraintm. A point in his favor is that at the end of D2, he was already saying he suspected gertaintm if Ico flips scum. That seems maybe less likely for scum to do? Not impossible, but maybe unlikely to call your shot earlier than you need to.

Luca definitely argues both geraintm and Gypyx that day, but ultimately does more arguing for a geraintm yeet...which maybe pings me a little in hindsight given he claimed to have wanted to yeet Gypyx on the day Ico was yeeted, and I don't think (could be wrong here, going from memory) that Luca wanted or suspected geraintm before D3.

My position D3 was very clear on D3. I wanted Gypyx first and felt like geraintm was being very goofy town.

I'll probably look at the George Baily wagon again one more time before I vote, but I'm leaning toward Luca being the last scum here.