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Game started just over 4 hrs ago. I just found out about it, so no evidence of lurking unless you’re going to argue this is GB scum meta? Otherwise, I think it’s dumb.
Are you reading Andante's reasoning there as hyper-serious?
It’s really hard to tell with her.
How is it hard to tell if andante is being serious by saying that he's hoping votes on someone will encourage them to post?
In post 137, Loki Dokie wrote:Questioning that initial tl on them now. Town generally doesn’t vote a slot immediately after they express a tl on them. Are you actually scum here Flow?
Shouldn't it be the other way around, that scum would not want to alienate people who like them, and town wouldn't care?
Game started just over 4 hrs ago. I just found out about it, so no evidence of lurking unless you’re going to argue this is GB scum meta? Otherwise, I think it’s dumb.
Are you reading Andante's reasoning there as hyper-serious?
It’s really hard to tell with her.
How is it hard to tell if andante is being serious by saying that he's hoping votes on someone will encourage them to post?
It’s hard for me.
Do you think andante is averse to GB starting talking?
In post 137, Loki Dokie wrote:Questioning that initial tl on them now. Town generally doesn’t vote a slot immediately after they express a tl on them. Are you actually scum here Flow?
Shouldn't it be the other way around, that scum would not want to alienate people who like them, and town wouldn't care?
In my experience no. Why should a townie be sus about a weak tl read on them? But scum has been quick to push me for that. I could obviously be wrong but it’s a really bad take regardless.
Maybe flow is scumreading you for reasons other than your town lean!
Regarding mechanical stuff, I feel like we should not claim neighbor chats until someone flips D1, and then the partner of that person immediately claims that.
Then either all claim D2 or do the same as D1 if the partner of the flipped person dies.
I don't feel extremely strongly about this and am open to other thoughts.
I very possibly could be bad at reading you!
Maybe your playstyle as town is just to revolve the game around how people are reading you, I generally see this as a scum trait.
He could be scum? I don’t know. I think likely one between bugs and Scamp. Flow is just wrong but bugs is my best guess. I have seen nothing townie from them yet.
i'm asking because this reaction reads as though you're assuming town Vander (bad at this would imply he's town) which felt different to your interaction with flow earlier
In post 161, Vanderscamp wrote:Regarding mechanical stuff, I feel like we should not claim neighbor chats until someone flips D1, and then the partner of that person immediately claims that.
Then either all claim D2 or do the same as D1 if the partner of the flipped person dies.
I don't feel extremely strongly about this and am open to other thoughts.
we avoid a d2 massclaim because of the friendly neighbour. optimal move changes based on what we hit d1.
I agree there's value in keeping the friendly neighbor hidden, but I'm doubtful that if two people from different neighborhoods get killed, we can get to N2 without scum having a very large amount of information about who is in which chats (without creating the opportunity for scum to lie about the chats and get away with it, which I am keen to avoid)
In post 175, Hopkirk wrote:given they've got less than 80 words and 6 posts i don't get the 'trying to direct the game'. can you lay that out more
They’ve made three pushes that seem oddly aggressive from what I know of town!bugs and they naked voted me after trying to run up a non-poster and then the aggressive rsv sr.
Am I confident on this? No but their naked voting me doesn’t exactly fill me with confidence. I just find it unlikely that all three slots who jumped on me are town. As Scamp was the third vote, that also has them in my suspicions.
What about bugspray's vote on you was "oddly aggressive?"
In post 175, Hopkirk wrote:given they've got less than 80 words and 6 posts i don't get the 'trying to direct the game'. can you lay that out more
They’ve made three pushes that seem oddly aggressive from what I know of town!bugs and they naked voted me after trying to run up a non-poster and then the aggressive rsv sr.
Am I confident on this? No but their naked voting me doesn’t exactly fill me with confidence. I just find it unlikely that all three slots who jumped on me are town. As Scamp was the third vote, that also has them in my suspicions.
What about bugspray's vote on you was "oddly aggressive?"
I said all three were and that the naked vote on me was suspicious. They just naked voted me and left. Does that scream town to you? Why are you even voting me? You claimed a scumlean but have yet to explain that. When do you plan to do that?
No, it doesn't scream town to me, I don't think bugspray has been towny.
But it doesn't scream mafia to me either and it's pretty weird that you are this confident about it.
I'm voting you because you are hyper fixated on people who are voting you and your confusion around what andante said didn't make a lot of sense to me.
Andante basically said he was voting someone to get them to talk, and I don't understand what about that is possibly confusing to you, I'm not sure how else you could possibly have interpreted it.
In post 175, Hopkirk wrote:given they've got less than 80 words and 6 posts i don't get the 'trying to direct the game'. can you lay that out more
They’ve made three pushes that seem oddly aggressive from what I know of town!bugs and they naked voted me after trying to run up a non-poster and then the aggressive rsv sr.
Am I confident on this? No but their naked voting me doesn’t exactly fill me with confidence. I just find it unlikely that all three slots who jumped on me are town. As Scamp was the third vote, that also has them in my suspicions.
What about bugspray's vote on you was "oddly aggressive?"
I said all three were and that the naked vote on me was suspicious. They just naked voted me and left. Does that scream town to you? Why are you even voting me? You claimed a scumlean but have yet to explain that. When do you plan to do that?
No, it doesn't scream town to me, I don't think bugspray has been towny.
But it doesn't scream mafia to me either and it's pretty weird that you are this confident about it.
I'm voting you because you are hyper fixated on people who are voting you and your confusion around what andante said didn't make a lot of sense to me.
Andante basically said he was voting someone to get them to talk, and I don't understand what about that is possibly confusing to you, I'm not sure how else you could possibly have interpreted it.
I couldn’t tell, if you’re town here and seriously this bad, I have no words.
In post 192, Loki Dokie wrote:No decent player sr a player for not being a fucking mind reader, so whatever you are, that’s seriously idiotic. No offense but newsflash not getting a joke doesn’t make you scum.
I'd be pretty careful about who you are calling bad or idiotic given you have failed to understand the "nuance" of something that I would have expected someone with no mafia experience to grasp.
I'm not scum reading you for not reading minds, I thought you were being overly serious regarding what andante was doing and your push on bugspray seems overly strong.
But you might be in luck regarding my vote now because grandpa seems scummier.
In post 181, GrandpaMo wrote:ok so im neighbors with andante and they are scum btw they just confessed to me
VOTE: andante
How many mafia games have you played, grandpa?
also why ask? when you can literally go to my pfp and check my games? also you can look at my status it literally says "i always live up to..." that implies i have played before. i am assuming that you think im new lol
Because asking someone is generally more reliable than assuming someone has exclusively played on this site.
In post 213, Vanderscamp wrote:I think grandpa is less scummy now that it seems like he was not actually serious about thinking andante was scum from his claim
lmao what did I claim?? I didn't out my neighbor, I'm pretty dang sure
Yeah, I don't really care whether you actually claimed it or not given grandpa was not serious. VOTE: andante because you care too much about telling us that you did not claim mafia.
In post 220, GrandpaMo wrote:i thought this was more scummy then the question. is just feels like scum tryna figure out neighbors but confused because i called u my scum buddy and vander got suprsied because they know that andante isnt scum wit them xD
No, I was under the impression you were new and being honest about andante's claim and what you thought of it.
I thought this was very scummy so was aiming to investigate it further.
Given what you said earlier about town wanting to not scum read people who town read them, I'm willing to believe this really is your actual town playstyle, to determine everything based on how people are reading you or interacting with you.
Grandpa made a false claim that you outed mafia to him in a neighbor chat with him.
You immediately claimed that not only did you not do this, that you're not even neighbors with him.
I believe that town is more likely to not care about something like this, whereas scum would feel the need to get more defensive about it.
If you're town, I'm clearly wrong, but do you think this reasoning is wrong?
Why do you think it's scummy for me to vote you?
In post 220, GrandpaMo wrote:i thought this was more scummy then the question. is just feels like scum tryna figure out neighbors but confused because i called u my scum buddy and vander got suprsied because they know that andante isnt scum wit them xD
No, I was under the impression you were new and being honest about andante's claim and what you thought of it.
I thought this was very scummy so was aiming to investigate it further.
Grandpa and I have memed back in forth in another game, but when I'm catching up, I'm in dead serious mode so yeah :/ I ruined a good chance
I understand being serious when catching up, but was grandpa's comment really something that, as town, you would think "oh no, this is something I need to correct"?
In post 220, GrandpaMo wrote:i thought this was more scummy then the question. is just feels like scum tryna figure out neighbors but confused because i called u my scum buddy and vander got suprsied because they know that andante isnt scum wit them xD
That sounds like a bit of a stretch
It's not correct, but I don't think it's a scummy read.
In post 251, Andante wrote:aghhh Vanders... I'm literally town I think my neighbor is town too, they've been very towny in the hood, meaning only 1 other hood is town town, and 2 are town maf
In post 253, flow trap wrote:I would like to say I've seen more defensive town than mafia
Also what is Vand at?
It's not just the defensiveness, I agree that defensiveness is not necessarily a scumtell, it's the defensiveness of something that clearly doesn't warrant defending, which I believe is a scum tell.
In post 253, flow trap wrote:I would like to say I've seen more defensive town than mafia
Also what is Vand at?
It's not just the defensiveness, I agree that defensiveness is not necessarily a scumtell, it's the defensiveness of something that clearly doesn't warrant defending, which I believe is a scum tell.
there was pressure, I crumble under pressure. it's who I am
If you can link me an example of you as town crumbling under pressure as non-existent as in this example, that would be helpful.
Like you claiming in the face of a cop hit from an outed scum or something.
In post 253, flow trap wrote:I would like to say I've seen more defensive town than mafia
Also what is Vand at?
It's not just the defensiveness, I agree that defensiveness is not necessarily a scumtell, it's the defensiveness of something that clearly doesn't warrant defending, which I believe is a scum tell.
there was pressure, I crumble under pressure. it's who I am
If you can link me an example of you as town crumbling under pressure as non-existent as in this example, that would be helpful.
Like you claiming in the face of a cop hit from an outed scum or something.
Your defence against what I'm saying is that as town, it's normal for you to crumble under pressure.
But why would you expect me to know that since we've never played together?
Why is it scummy for me to look at someone "crumbling" (something you don't disagree with) and then vote you for it?
Why was it such a shock to you that I was serious in being suspicious of that?
I didn't sign up to mafia under the assumption that I would not get interrogated
If you don't want to answer, that's fine, I'm just not going to reevaluate.
Yes because you’re reasoning for voting Andante is similar. You’re equating defensivenuss with scumminess which is a really bad reason for sr anyone. I mean if you were right, I’d obviously have to reevaluate but the only players who I think are being possibly scummy this far are you and bugs, so my vote is very likely being on one of you.
I just think both of you are tryharding and being weird about pushes. I don’t know you and if this is scum indicative for you or not, I think it seems atypical for bugs but I’m not willing to bet the game yet on either of those reads but no one else is really pinging me so far.
I agree that if my read was just that andante is scummy for being defensive, that would be pretty bad.
I think being defensive vs pressure is not necessarily scummy.
What I think is scummy is Andante thinking that a false statement about him claiming mafia is pressure at all.
There is also some difference between being defensive and being retaliatory. I have no idea why andante thinks I'm scum, or if there is any reason other than retaliation.
In post 298, Andante wrote:I mean, if you want me here 24/7 I can do that... but post count will be insane, I leave so yall have a chance to talk.... so when I return, and am catching up, I see someone going "andante claimed scum in the hood" and I have no clue what follows. So I go. "no. that wasn't me, I'm not even in that hood" cause how else should I respond?
You can respond by going along with it and at least not outing that you are not in that neighbourhood.
If I said I used a ouija board to determine that you were scum, I would not expect townAndante and scumAndante to both react strongly to that, and I generally think that players (regardless of their defensiveness) are more likely to be defensive towards non-cases as scum than town.
I think being defensive vs pressure is not necessarily scummy.
What I think is scummy is Andante thinking that a false statement about him claiming mafia is pressure at all.
There is also some difference between being defensive and being retaliatory. I have no idea why andante thinks I'm scum, or if there is any reason other than retaliation.
Scum is in:
GeorgeBailey
Robert M Hunter
Vanderscamp
bugspray
I'm not certain if you specifically are scum or what, but I think you're really trying to make something out of nothing...
Was it nothing, or was it you crumbling under pressure?
Because you seem to be simultaneously arguing that it's in your town range to react poorly to pressure, but also that it is not reasonable for me (who has never played with you) to scum read you for reacting poorly to pressure.
I really don't understand your perspective of this.
I'll outline this again because I feel like this is a pretty good example of my problem with andante's defence.
I call out his response to grandpa as being poor and too reactive to grandpa saying he claimed mafia.
Andante agrees with this and links examples of games where he has also reacted poorly to pressure.
I don't understand how, given this, he is retaliating me and calling me scum for his push on him, if he agrees that I am reacting to a poor defence from him. Even if I happen to be wrong, it's not me making something out of nothing, that would only be the case if andante had not agreed that his original response was poor.
also dont react to anything i said about bugs until im back pls nd thank u
Roger
I don't think much about you townreading me, I think it's conceivable you'd have that read or that you'd fake it as scum.
I think your content in general has been fine.
In post 314, Vanderscamp wrote:Because you seem to be simultaneously arguing that it's in your town range to react poorly to pressure, but also that it is not reasonable for me (who has never played with you) to scum read you for reacting poorly to pressure.
How do those contradict each other?
If he thinks that it is scummy to be suspicious of people who are giving shit defences, then it is not a contradiction, but this is not a thing that anyone thinks.
I still don't know why I am supposed to be scum in his eyes other than that I'm pushing on him and he knows that he's town.
Loki did pretty much the same thing but he at least didn't do it scummily.
In post 314, Vanderscamp wrote:Because you seem to be simultaneously arguing that it's in your town range to react poorly to pressure, but also that it is not reasonable for me (who has never played with you) to scum read you for reacting poorly to pressure.
How do those contradict each other?
If he thinks that it is scummy to be suspicious of people who are giving shit defences, then it is not a contradiction, but this is not a thing that anyone thinks.
I still don't know why I am supposed to be scum in his eyes other than that I'm pushing on him and he knows that he's town.
Loki did pretty much the same thing but he at least didn't do it scummily.
why was the way loki did it townier?
Loki seems to genuinely believe that I am a terrible player for thinking that he could be scum here.
It's possible that he's just an arrogant scum who believes he's played perfectly, so he's not overly towny, it's more that andante's method has been very scummy.
He has basically given no satisfactory reason why he retaliated me for it, and he's seemed fairly hesitant to talk with me about it.
In post 175, Hopkirk wrote:given they've got less than 80 words and 6 posts i don't get the 'trying to direct the game'. can you lay that out more
They’ve made three pushes that seem oddly aggressive from what I know of town!bugs and they naked voted me after trying to run up a non-poster and then the aggressive rsv sr.
Am I confident on this? No but their naked voting me doesn’t exactly fill me with confidence. I just find it unlikely that all three slots who jumped on me are town. As Scamp was the third vote, that also has them in my suspicions.
What about bugspray's vote on you was "oddly aggressive?"
I said all three were and that the naked vote on me was suspicious. They just naked voted me and left. Does that scream town to you? Why are you even voting me? You claimed a scumlean but have yet to explain that. When do you plan to do that?
No, it doesn't scream town to me, I don't think bugspray has been towny.
But it doesn't scream mafia to me either and it's pretty weird that you are this confident about it.
I'm voting you because you are hyper fixated on people who are voting you and your confusion around what andante said didn't make a lot of sense to me.
Andante basically said he was voting someone to get them to talk, and I don't understand what about that is possibly confusing to you, I'm not sure how else you could possibly have interpreted it.
what element of this is scum indicative? Loki's a townlean for me because the tonal aggression makes it feel like he's being genuine/not holding anything back.
In post 189, GrandpaMo wrote:people are going to take me seriously with this new playstyle of mine lmao
i don't like the 'overly self aware' nature of this entrance. the gambit also isn't interesting or AI
In post 220, GrandpaMo wrote:i thought this was more scummy then the question. is just feels like scum tryna figure out neighbors but confused because i called u my scum buddy and vander got suprsied because they know that andante isnt scum wit them xD
No, I was under the impression you were new and being honest about andante's claim and what you thought of it.
I thought this was very scummy so was aiming to investigate it further.
you thought that a new person believing a scumclaim was scummy? if someone who's new to the game (not this case obviously) sounded like they misunderstood something like that and presented it seriously then it'd be a strong towntell/slip
I think even with new players there are limits to how gullible they are regarding things that are not serious, and even as a new player I think it's more scummy than not to push on something like that.
![:]](./images/smilies/icon_smiling.png "Cheerful Smile"){kind=icon}
