Open 811 - Lovers and Losers (New Game+) [Game Over]

[Kerset]

also ana/bambi what are both of you?

I am lover to RM so I'm kind of resigned to my fate of dying an early tragic death.

I just want to flirt with Kerset a bit more before I die.

Ironically i got bingle... :C

[Kerset]

Mod was jealous of our love so he rerolled and separated us.

[Kerset]

RM how do you feel about the fact that your fight with Vex was just TvT? How dumb do you feel?

[Kerset]

Can you towntell for me so I can be your lover once more?

I am always obv town.

[Kerset]

Blame yessir. He want us to suffer.

[Kerset]

Bingle said that reroll happened, because town lovers were able to cross confirm themselves. I said that mafia also had lover chat, so it shouldn't happen. He still argued but i dislike to talk with him, so we just ended up with 3 posts in total.

[Kerset]

So, actually she only agreed that Llama is scary

its true, he ordered us to show him how we flirt during pregame :S

[Kerset]

@kerset what does cross-confirming each other mean in this context? why would that cause the reroll?

bingle thinks that you two cross confirmed, so you should tell me

[Kerset]

You (Vex) and Bingle.

[Kerset]

VOTE: T-Bone

[Kerset]

As dumb as he feels, or not, sunce feelings are irrelevant. How dumb do you feel about only winning 13% as scum? How dumb do you feel if you're Town this game and read wrong?

On town i got 73% - i am pro, so it has to be your fault.

[Kerset]

yes, you can discuss it in the main thread--and i absolutely would've--but if you're given the chance to talk in a masonry for 48 hours, you take it and use it to discuss whatever you think you can, that'd be relevant

but i don't like talking with bingle...

[Kerset]

if you want some backstory then check lylo of TM2020 mini theme

[Kerset]

i added 137

[Kerset]

link me to the game as well kerest please, since i know you're here

ok Mr. lazy tryhard
viewtopic.php?f=150&t=81719

[Kerset]

That was my glorious play which caused you all to argue, deepen your grudge against each other to make sure that you vote out each other. It worked so well

[Kerset]

You know Vex. The truth is that you try to be the best you can but you end up over reading stuff, which doesn't make you better at all.

[Kerset]

also, @kerset, all i'm getting at from reading the f3 from that game is you're angry at bingle for correctly reading you as scum.
if that's the reason--and i'm trying to say this as politely as possible--what the actual fuck? you refuse to talk to someone because you're still angry at them for losing a game a year ago?

no... you dont get it

[Kerset]

then please explain why you don't like jingle, because that's what i got from reading the thread

Do you want me to get banned for holding a grudge? You need to take my word that i dont enjoy talking with him and dont confuse it with dislike towards player

[Kerset]

Just accept the fact that not everyone thinks like you. Both me and ana didn't mech talk in PT and we cant be scum together now. It all depends on player and their playstyle, not alignment. Two players, who were not interested in this meet in PT in this game. Whine about it more and i will indeed ignore you.

[Kerset]

Kerset, honest answer time please. Why did you think you could push my miselim out of the whole playerlist last game?

i dont think that first push = miselim target

[Kerset]

The way you did it with VV, I'm not sure what either of you are trying to accomplish if you're town in that argument.
So it's possible that this is some kind of scum-theatre where you argue with him about something meaningless but with enough intensity that later we think you can't be aligned when one of you and him flips.

Its natural that if VV insist on accusing Bingle then he is going to fight back. VV keep pursuing, so bingle keep responding.

[Kerset]

I like how everyone expect me to carry this game. Meanwhile all people do is saying "i like pair X/Y more then Z/A". Nobody adds real effort, just surface thoughts but i am expected to solve this game already.

[Kerset]

@Kerset, Bingle, Bambi - Please explain your vote split over a single pair.

to compare T-Bone reaction

[Kerset]

klick, towncase T-bone for me

[Kerset]

Of the singles I wanted to trust Vex more but they're just... Well I think starting this game with bad blood with Ration wasn't the best idea unless it was a nice diversion tactic. I joked on it but I also tried to stay neutral in reading him. Because it seems literally the same way Ration acted before I assume this is his default town state. I want more from Anastasia but until then I'll accept that's town lover?

Then why are you not establishing it based on lama?

[Kerset]

Though rereading Tbone and Klick made me realize we got the same wavelength with them mostly.

Tbone and Klick are actually being proactive AND townie.

Quotes please

[Kerset]

also kerset instead of deflecting onto others, why don’t you, y’know, try to defend yourself?

I can't defend from BoP.

[Kerset]

hey vex got a minute?

[Kerset]

do you have rainbow list atm?

[Kerset]

Why did you keep updated rainbowlist in your PT on previous iteration but not in this one?

Pedit oh

[Kerset]

Did it? I just checked and it was public

[Kerset]

viewtopic.php?f=90&t=86536

[Kerset]

Of the singles I wanted to trust Vex more but they're just... Well I think starting this game with bad blood with Ration wasn't the best idea unless it was a nice diversion tactic. I joked on it but I also tried to stay neutral in reading him. Because it seems literally the same way Ration acted before I assume this is his default town state. I want more from Anastasia but until then I'll accept that's town lover?

Then why are you not establishing it based on lama?

Though rereading Tbone and Klick made me realize we got the same wavelength with them mostly.

Tbone and Klick are actually being proactive AND townie.

Quotes please

[Kerset]

Do you mean on Vex alone?

Ok, so:
Me/Bambi/Llama - VT
Ana/Rm, Tbone/Klick, Kerset/Bingle - lovers

Loner pool is you, vex and llama. Bingle is in other pool.

[Kerset]

sort me and bambi then, why don’t you? i know you gave reasoning, but i havent read it since work

Its annoying that my two strongest scum reads are not in different pools. Feel very confident though that its exactly one of "Vex or Kers/Bingle" though. Will try and get a little more situated over the weekend (full catchup probably Sunday after getting shot #2) but im heavily leaning to a Vex vote right now.

[Kerset]

Though rereading Tbone and Klick made me realize we got the same wavelength with them mostly.

Tbone and Klick are actually being proactive AND townie.

Quotes please

[Kerset]

also, as an unrelated thing, all my alts have "#CultsArentBastard" in their sig, so there's that

And "Discord: Korina#0359"

[Kerset]

if bambi's playstyle is what i think it is, i don't really care, since i know i'll be able to read them.

I don't like how confident you are in yourself. You should be more caution.

[Kerset]

The thing that i dislike in Bambi is her opportunistic nature and the fact that she couldn't back up her reads when asked. There was not actual thought behind her statement, which suggest that she pick it out of calculation rather then develop.

[Kerset]

btw the fact that someone flipped town doesn't make them smarter and they are as uninformed as before the flip, so the idea of vengeful is silly

[Kerset]

our mod broke

[Kerset]

I will try to restart him
UNVOTE: yessiree
VOTE: yessiree
UNVOTE: yessiree
VOTE: yessiree
UNVOTE: yessiree
VOTE: yessiree

[Kerset]

RM i have strange feeling that you like be because i didnt make fun of your thoughts like others did. Are you vulnerable to pocketing?

[Kerset]

if bambi's playstyle is what i think it is, i don't really care, since i know i'll be able to read them.

I don't like how confident you are in yourself. You should be more caution.

several things:
1) i'm always confident in myself when i play mafia. that's just my personality.
2) why wouldn't i be confident in my ability to read a player who is very similar to me, in terms of playstyle?
3) what the actual fuck is this post?

2)bc last time you were wrong. Usually people lower their certainty after mistake and try to consult other people. You keep arguing and force your ideas on them.
3)honesty/self awareness check

[Kerset]

I missed you ana

[Kerset]

I would like to remind everyone that we must vote someone or interrogate.

I think today is Bambi vs Llama but now some are saying Vex. Then, in lovers, I have Bingle as scum but his partner as Town. Klick and Tbone nulltell all game.

Very difficult but Bambi is my choice still, I don't follow the logic of her reads.

You know it is really hard to solve lovers when Ana, T-Bone and Klick are pretty much inactive.

[Kerset]

Tell me you are aligned with the town and I'll be yours, heart and soul.

Sure i am

[Kerset]

I would like to remind everyone that we must vote someone or interrogate.

I think today is Bambi vs Llama but now some are saying Vex. Then, in lovers, I have Bingle as scum but his partner as Town. Klick and Tbone nulltell all game.

Very difficult but Bambi is my choice still, I don't follow the logic of her reads.

You know it is really hard to solve lovers when Ana, T-Bone and Klick are pretty much inactive.

and RM has no scum meta history

[Kerset]

VOTE: Bambi Jay

[Kerset]

VOTE: Bambi Jay

Awesome. So what is your opinion on the RM/Ana duo? Vex too for that matter.

RM has unique style and no records to compare but i lean towards him being town. Vex raises red flags.

[Kerset]

meone.)

Kerset, are we agreed that Llama is town, or am I personality biasing here?

for me its PoE but yea

[Kerset]

I think there's a slight advantage to voting in the lovers as you're left with more ACTUAL confirmed townies upon success, meaning more town influence over the vote. If we hit the scum lovers for example, all of a sudden we have four conftown that can control how we vote and one scum with a vote. That's a lot better than the alternative, having 2 conftown and 2 scum players influencing the vote.

Basically in terms of alignment they're equivalent, but in terms of game influence the lovers are more valuable.

Confirmed townies won't help us solve this, they are only good in normals where 2 confirms in f3 wins the game. For solve we need analyzable data and the more subjects for observation we got the better.

[Kerset]

Disorganization between RM&Ana might be a towntell. RM isn't kind of person that would sabotage partners plan to set up chain elim 505.

[Kerset]

If you give RM plan in PT that

, he would play along, because he likes that kind of scheming (based on his pregame talks?).

[Kerset]

T-Bone, is it your meta to talk just about mech staff? No votes, no interrogations.

[Kerset]

I think Kerset is trying to distract from my (correct) reads by trying to use me not posting on Saturday as a way to shade me as a lurker, and by using my most recent convo with RM to distract you all from remembering that I think this is the scum pair.

How does prodding your for activity 'distract' people? If you don't post and vocal your options then they may be forgotten but the fact that i ask you to be active doesn't stop you in any way.

Both you and Klick are at the bottom of post count. You are objectively the least interactive players. Today you added 13 posts, so at the time of my actions your gap was even higher.


Instead of crafting conspiracy theories just look at the data.

[Kerset]

If you find my actions malicious then you probably also don't understand reasoning behind it, so here i go.
One of the *proper* tools to determine someones alignment is to observe their ability to gather information about worrying things and looking at reasoning behind reads (to see how much sense they make). The problem with you is that all you give me is

I agree with nearly everything in this post....except that I will not avoid thinking that Bingle/Kerset is the scum pair, because at this point, they are the ones I believe are scum. I'm actually also leaning VV as the goon, but I don't feel as strongly atm.

I believe that he and he is scum and bye bye. I don't see the process of questioning, nothing about

your

reasoning behind the reads. All things that scum struggle to fake in every game of mafia are hidden in your gameplay here.

btw that is the post where bone talked about VT

[Kerset]

You grasp at silly things like activity and post count (like last game) because you don't have anything real

Yes. I literally said that i can't make make my read on you, because you don't provide anything i could work with. 569

[Kerset]

That seems like a you problem, not a me problem. You're not going to convince me that I'm scum.

Have you heard about 3 skills important for townie? Ability to identify scum, ability to let other recognize you as scum and charisma. Refusal to do the second is anti-town.

[Kerset]

ability to let other recognize you as town lol XD

[Kerset]

And what should town!tbone think when you, as scum, did something last game, and crucially are doing the same thing again? What should I think from your perspective, knowing these things?

You can OMGUS at me if it makes you feel better but i am glad to finally see you phasing your thoughts.

[Kerset]

What do you want?

[Kerset]

I like how everyone is either: arguing to determine the scum, declaring to be busy or being Bambi. Her uninterested approach in recent pages is such obv scum behavior.

[Kerset]

She is not even trying to hide lack of need to solve.

[Kerset]

by other pair do you specifically mean Ana/RM or both other pairs or his scumread Bone?

[Kerset]

by other pair do you specifically mean Ana/RM or both other pairs or his scumread Bone?

You arent voting with your lover. Are they wrong?

in lover pool i would lean like he does but i am more confident in my vote in VT pool. We vote in different pools, so i don't see why would that my vote imply that he is wrong.

[Kerset]

I don't need you to give a read on Kerset, you know either way.

I didn't mean to say that I need you to answer for Kerset's play. Like regardless of alignment you know the truth.

I'm explaining what I'm seeing from my perspective cause that's the one I have and I try in general to be open about what I see. And as I explained before I see Kerset picking on activity again, something that scum!Kerset did last game. And I was trying to gauge whether this is something that Kerset does as scum, or is NAI. And from Kerset I didn't get an answer to that gauge.

And so I'm explaining why I think the way I think. And so I partly ask this as a rhetorical device...if I, me, T-Bone am seeing something I can provably associate something as a thing a player did while scum, what reasons are there for me to think this time is different? If scum!Kerset did X in game 1, and Kerset is still doing X in game 2, what evidence in game 2 should I be seeing that makes it NAI instead of scum?

I'm not asking you to answer for him. But if you two are actually the other town pair Bingle, then it's important to me that you understand where I'm coming from, because if I am wrong (which is your contention), then I can't begin to correct my read without some mutual understanding.

OMG AFTER LITANY OF 'WHY KERSET DOESNT ASNWER ME ;_; :_;" ONCE BINGLE ANSWERS FOR ME YOU RELPY WITH "I DONT WANT ANSWERS, I ONLY SHOW MY THOUGHTS"

[Kerset]

@llama if everyone/mostly everyone agrees you’re town, i’ll go along with it because it means it’s less effort for me, meaning the time i actually have free to read the game isn’t spent on other things

hey no cheating! It gives you conf!scum instantly, so you don't need to read bambi either

[Kerset]

I don't understand you Bone. Your questions are prepared with some presumptions that i tried to eliminate you last time (which wasn't the case, as i said), that i am scum here (which is not the case), that i have the same intentions? methods? (which is not the case). So you ask what should you think under 3 false assumptions??? IDK THINK OVER? what should you do under 3 false assumptions??? IDK OMGUS ME?
It is just too ridiculous

[Kerset]

The fact is, the 7 other players in the game can plainly see I'm putting in the effort and you're not.

We got 9 players in total. Subtract me, you (bc 'other') and we got 7.

so in your mind Bingle and RM agree with you. Ana and Klick are present to praise you. Vex & llama didn't put you in null in their rl

[Kerset]

Although the effort thing gets obsolete thanks to recent events.

[Kerset]

How am I disinterested in solving?

Ration going against Tbone? Good enough reason for me to trust Tbone on this.

Do you call this solving?

[Kerset]

@llama @VV please make a stand point around me, Bone and that staff. You are avoiding this for too long and this will be crucial for future association.

[Kerset]

Usually i would suspect that scum is delaying their standpoint to see whenever its the best to safe/bus but there are two of you :/

[Kerset]

Are you in one of your tunneling moments, Radiant?

I was literally asked by another player to give reasoning behind my vote and my username isn't fucking Radiant.

You actually sound like radiant

[Kerset]

I feel like I should vote you Kerset, who do you suggest is better for me to look at?

You can't vote me but you can switch your vote to bambi.

[Kerset]

I'm telling you what I'm seeing, and what I'm calling it, and here, again, you call it something else in a misleading way. It doesn't even feel like you're trying.

3 people are trying to explain to you that you are misleading my intentions and you refuse to listen but bingle is the one which is not trying understand...

[Kerset]

Playerlist

T-Bone
LlamaFluff
Kerset -> VFP
RationalMadman
Vex Vience
Bingle
Anastasia*
Klick
Bambi Jay

@mod pls don't replace me, i wont spoiler tag again

[Kerset]

In post 711, T-Bone wrote:
If you're town your job is honestly to convince me that Ana/RM are the scum pair.


Wrong.

I think that Tbone post was made from his pov. From his pov he assumes that he is town and 'if' Bingle is also town then he has to prove 'that'.

For some reason Tbone posts are overfilled with such content. He loves to emphasize everywhere that his pov is town pov.

[Kerset]

Subject: Forum Rules and Guidelines

[*]Do not bring outside influences into the game - this includes threats, bribes, wagers, promises,

"trust tells"

, alliances, etc. Using

knowledge

from previous games is perfectly acceptable, but try not to carry grudges from one game to another.

[Kerset]

lol RM it wasnt to you

[Kerset]

I think Kerset is scum because I think he would've told me he was town by now if he was town and this thought makes me sad inside

What? I thought that as beloved one you would see my townyness and now i am left with dagger in hearth

[Kerset]

My girl Ana left me. My buddy Vex decided to become employee of the month and has no time for me. One person who still likes me, bambi is a criminal and soon goes to jail. Life is so hard. All i can do is to hang out with the neighbors kid.

[Kerset]

VC 1.1

With 9 votes, it takes 5 to eliminate

T-Bone - Kerset, Bingle
Klick - Bambi Jay
Bingle - Vex Vience

Note Voting - T-Bone, Klick, Anastasia, Rational Madman, LlamaFluff

Day 1 ends in (expired on 2021-05-23 22:00:00)

VFP how about you do basic research?

[Kerset]

@VFP - Can you give a quick summary of pre-game talk from lovers topic and what happened since then in it? Seems like shift have happened and want to confirm.

You know that in previous iteration of this setup scum got lover PT...

[Kerset]

Because of that brainfart/slip I am absolutely certain that Vex vs Bingle+Ker isn't a bus relationship, it's authentic.

do you think i would bus a partner in this setup?

Here for example.
It's not really bussing in thos situation.

If Vex thinks that Bingle is scum then the optimal play here is to lim Kerset. But instead Vex is asking Kerset to push Bingle as town.

The truth is that it was Tbone, who voted me instead of Bingle. I had 0 votes, he had 1. If your logicis valid then it is Tbone, who misplayed with sinister intention.

[Kerset]

If you seek the answer, not the argue then explanation is simple. People don't move votes until they catch up.
If your assumptions are that we are all scum partners and wish to argue under those then i can't help you.

[Kerset]

We live in two different universes.

*In mine Vex had no time, they only quickly made those few posts from phone

and address only things directly related to theyself

completely ignoring the rest, because they are in hurry. They apology in 612 that they can't fully commit to the game. Ultimately they replace dude lack of time.

*In yours they read everything. They fully catch up as 612 suggest and use sneaky tactic to post less then normal on their "tryhard account".

I can't tell whenever you are looking at this from wrong angle, use confrimation bias or intentionally shade me.

[Kerset]

There is major difference. First time you wanted to check whenever PT was used, now you are trying to check whenever Klick story matches VFP story. All VFP had to do is to check PT.
In previous iteration mod said that lack of scum PT was a mistake, so the fact that this time he will fix it is obvious especially that prev game was canceled thanks to information, which were in town lover PT. Mod wouldn't risk another reroll... do i really need to explain it to setup reviewer?

[Kerset]

maybe i should be less arrogant, sry

[Kerset]

@llama @VV please make a stand point around me, Bone and that staff. You are avoiding this for too long and this will be crucial for future association.

ignored....

[Kerset]

Telle, what is your read on Bingle and why?

actually i dont recall you giving individual read on Bingle @RM

[Kerset]

I think that your Ana is cute.

[Kerset]

rly urls? Just use

Code: Select all

[post][/post]

[Kerset]

ok llama you want to kill there (like me) but you can see give opinions on the other pool

[Kerset]

you can still give opinions on the other pool

[Kerset]

@llama @VV please make a stand point around me, Bone and that staff. You are avoiding this for too long and this will be crucial for future association.

ignored....

I mean... you are voting in the VT pool.

[Kerset]

ok llama you want to kill there (like me) but you can see give opinions on the other pool

I did. I voted Ana. Most of the game is them buddying to you. What do you read differently from their interactions and play from last game?

i am still referring to the fact that you didn't make a stance about me-Tbone

[Kerset]

ok llama you want to kill there (like me) but you can see give opinions on the other pool

I did. I voted Ana. Most of the game is them buddying to you. What do you read differently from their interactions and play from last game?

now she is in despair in prev game she was in euphoria
sorry i cant help you more, i just base my read on RM

[Kerset]

I often got dishonesty in response...which you've just done again in this post.

Why do you keep calling him dishonest? He disagree with you for sure but his intentions are pretty straightforward. He believes that my actions were made in good faith and believes that your push is unjustified. Where is the dishonesty?

[Kerset]

i dont think that SS declared sr on us but ok

[Kerset]

Either way can you explain what your reads of the VT vote scenario is?

VT vote scenario? What is it?

[Kerset]

This I don't understand because functionally if we hit deadline Kerset/Bingle are eliminated.

If i move my vote to you then we are tied, so don't be so perky.

[Kerset]

Yeah... see here’s the rub. You keep saying this. I keep looking back and not seeing it. This leaves me with two possibilities. I’m entirely misreading things or my impressions are right.

you are right, don't worry *claps the back*

[Kerset]

Either way can you explain what your reads of the VT vote scenario is?

VT vote scenario? What is it?

Both other VT claims are voting you. None of us are voting TBone/VFP. What does that mean to you for all three of the pool.

That they trust Tbone a lot, because his emotions look genuine, maybe some meta similarities?, scum jumped on the opportunity and we died thanks to awful leadership (people find RM lead repealing). If all VT (with you) call Tbone town then that must be the case and we win lover pool tomorrow, so no big deal.

[Kerset]

@llama Why did you have no problem with Tbone doing the same on me?

[Kerset]

I still have nothing on either of the other VT's, but it seems like that doesn't matter because I'm the consensus scummiest in them? Is that perception accurate?

I think that Bambi is the scummiest and should be todays elimination.

[Kerset]

I think that Bambi is the scummiest and should be todays elimination.

Again, there's no benefit to voting up the Goon over the scum lovers.

In your delusional mind.

[Kerset]

RM is just oozing out scum all over my new carpet, and pushing something that just isn't real. Proven to not be reading this game, while giving the appearence of doing so. Since I have come in, there really hasn't been anything from this slot of trying to sort anyone, and I'm guessing the push towards me was more when I said Vex/SS was scum but I'll have to double check that before stating it as fact.

Your case highly depends on the idea that RM thoughts are fabricated, which is subjective matter. RM content has huge quantity, you picked one of his post and make case with skyrocketing confidence. Did you read all of his staff or do you feel that realtime talk is your supreme tool?

[Kerset]

I saw a marathon of words and I've been gone but from the bit i saw I guess we've been pushing Ration and Ana. It still falls in line with Tbone and VFP being my lockdown pick so there's that.

Only got 1 favor really. I'll obviously vote Ana if y'all don't wanna go along with it but I wanna elim Ration on principal instead and not just getting him on a technicality. It's the same result but voting Ration feels better.

VOTE: Ration

Will probably reread the last 2 pages but frankly nothing on there changed my views at all. I got Smart as the goon from the VTs becuz of Vex, and with Tbone and VFP as town the other 2 are expendable and I think they can convince the other VT (probs Llama) they are the town pair if we're put in Lim or Lose.

Ok Tbone follows VFP, because they are modconfirmed to them. What about bambi? Did she also get a pass to do 180 on her reads?
This is just ridiculous level of opportunism. She votes anything with the lowest level of reluctance and got no opinion on her own.

[Kerset]

@Ana - You feel that you can accurately meta me from a game that lasted about 48 hours, barely hit 10 pages, had zero flips, etc? Especially if you arent aware of town meta?

@llama Why did you have no problem with Tbone doing the same on me?

llama ignores my questions again...

[Kerset]

Kerset/Bingle being scum seems far and away the simplest explanation and I can't tell if I'm too out of touch to see it or if everyone else is too confbiased to see it.

Can you elaborate?

[Kerset]

What post. I dont see something that is at least as similar as you think.

So why did Tbone voted me in your understanding?

[Kerset]

actually bingle why did you pick SS in particular?

[Kerset]

@mod can i let my lover move my vote in case i am unavailable?

[Kerset]

so do we want to risk with another vt, which may lead to instant lose or do we go lovers now for more data?

[Kerset]

SS was like 0 information elim

[Kerset]

no

[Kerset]

i dont understand why you think you have to be right RM

i really dont.

what is so amazing about your Bambi solution?

have you even considered for a second you could be wrong?

the amazing part is that we got two matching ones glowing in the dark with sparkles

[Kerset]

I can't figure out what was even the counterwagon here. Bambi got votes after SS did, so scum didn't push SS to save her. Earlier Ana was pushed by emotional trio (bone, vfp, bambi) but they also ended up on SS.

[Kerset]

I can't figure out what was even the counterwagon here. Bambi got votes after SS did, so scum didn't push SS to save her. Earlier Ana was pushed by emotional trio (bone, vfp, bambi) but they also ended up on SS.

I really don't understand the swap over either.
I don't understand the emotional Trio comment on a side note?

Ana doesn't care about RM reads
Bingle doesn't care about my reads
RM doesn't care about Ana reads
I don't care about Bingle reads
SS didn't care about making any reads
Llama thinks independently

and then there is your trio, which follows each other bc friendship is magic

[Kerset]

VFP how familiar are you with llama?

[Kerset]

but do you respect him as a player like ana?

[Kerset]

This is most based on the fact that Ration and Ana are divided by me and Llama who we now know is one town one scum. Bingle and Kerset divided between Smart/Vex and me, who from my perspective is town/town since I know I'm town and Smart flipped.

Sure both the other Lovers are divided but the other 2 Are divided between scum and town. Kerset and Bingle are divided by Town and Town votes. So it has to be Kerset and Bingle because scum don't divide so easily against one of their own but they CAN split and attack both VTs while leaving their partner alone.

Why llama never gives ideas like this? Everyone shares some creativity with us expect of llama, who only fights arguments.

[Kerset]

I don't understand something about the situation yesterday, why did Bingle and Kerset both imply the other could hijack their vote if need be (Kerset even asked mod explicitly to allow this) but then vote separate anyway and stay silent for the remainder of the day phase?

This reads like scum playing down the middle forcing towntells to me, however I still read Kerset as towny for previous behaviour.

I knew that i won't be available near deadline, so i wanted bingle to hold my vote. I 'stay silent' bc i was indeed busy. As simple as that.

[Kerset]

he is rational man

[Kerset]

I promise to listen to whatever you say.

I will dance for you and sit on your lap and tell you you are the best player to ever play mafia.

please im begging youuuu

now image that they are actually scum and RM asked ana to post all of this for his masterplan of deception

[Kerset]

Spoiler: Fan fiction

Ana! We need to make some distancing but still get VT voted out. Here is my plan.
People won't believe that we got scum Pt if we argue a lot in main. Tunnel yourself on llama and beg me to vote with you. Do your best! Be as convincing as possible. Offer me dance, lap pillow or something, just put your soul in it!

Of course! Anything for you my love!

[Kerset]

I promise to listen to whatever you say.

I will dance for you and sit on your lap and tell you you are the best player to ever play mafia.

please im begging youuuu

now image that they are actually scum and RM asked ana to post all of this for his masterplan of deception

@mod in this and a 'fan fiction' spoilered post Kerset is fabricating quotes. Is there a rule against it or not?

This entire thing is idiotic. Why would I ask Ana to fight? If I was scum with either Llama or Bambi would I not want the bus to happen or opposite to happen as Scum?

Ana believed Llama was scum and outed it when there were four votes on her and we were fully ready to be voted off, I can quote it if you want.

Are you saying you want to vote us off? Why didn't you hammer yesterday? Is it solely us disagreeing on Llama?

Would it be townier if I randomly agreed with her read on Llama?

Don't insinuate things, be direct.

The fact that you panic over pure comedy post is interesting.

[Kerset]

You claim I have done no scum hunting, but how am I supposed to scum hunt when noone will listen to me? Not even my own lover partner supports me. How do I generate any kind of readable content from the people I pressure when my pressure is meaningless?

I have no support this game, non whatsoever. It's fine. I'm not going to spend more energy on something where people want to not listen.

Do you think that Tbone/VFP are scumreading bambi?

[Kerset]

Also hey Kerset you can also ask me questions if ya want.

Why did bingle push SS?

[Kerset]

Comedy is his natural kryptonite anyway. Also hey Kerset you can also ask me questions if ya want.

Team has to be Bingle/Kerset/Llama. Final solve but we win this only if we all vote before Ration gets back because frankly he'll scum side instead.

You think that i am scum and want to be questioned by me. Usually people ask for such thing when they want someone to change their opinion but you think that i am sided with your nemesis.
I don't get your motivation.

[Kerset]

Who else thinks that i am unfunny?

[Kerset]

TBone's townread of Bambi was very early and very underdeveloped, but he never actually addressed that when asked.

He did revaluate that it could be due to pocket.

[Kerset]

So llama, who are bambi partners?

[Kerset]

Cant see how this matters today.

Because you now have 3 viable scumteams from your POV and how you look at said scumteams is probably the most reliable way to read you.

Like... The only answer I get from you and Bambi fighting is which one of you has more charisma/WIM/rhetorical grasp on the situation. That's NAI. Your perspective there is that you want the other person eliminated.

If you work on a solve in the other three, then there's actually AI shit to examine (Like whether a read is made up or genuine) and in the case that we don't lose today it can only be helpful tomorrow.

exactly

[Kerset]

To Ration, Bingle, and Kerset... Ana too I guess

Do all 4 of you agree I'm most likely to be partnered with Tbone and VFP? Genuine question because that'll tell me the course of action I gotta take.

No sinice only you follow Bone not the other way.

[Kerset]

Ana, vote me too please.

Tbone and VFP, vote Llama then we'll both be at 3.

You'll figure out the scum team when Bingle and Kerset don't instantly hammer. They'll be confirmed town and we win after more debate and we prove Llama is the bad guy.

You could ask bone to vote llama and vfp you. It would be simpler. The only problem will be if you happen to be scum with ana. In that case your complex plan gives you insta win.

[Kerset]

Bingle and Kerset already agree I can only be scum with Tbone and VFP

No

[Kerset]

Two and Three are WIFOM unless you are actually trying to say that you feel you can accurately tell the difference between town pushing reads and scum faking a read assuming they are going to die and scum faking a read trying to win it right here.

This is entire point of this game.

[Kerset]

@RM how is 1334 a towny mindset?

[Kerset]

Okay, different question then. Since YOU know your town, and you know 1 of each a pair and a single are together, let's look at the pairs.

Bambi/Ration
Bambi/Tbone
Llama/Ration

Llama/Tbone

Which makes more sense to ya?

too many factors, i had a thought that bone/vfp sound like being couched by llama but its just a hunch

[Kerset]

The plan from Bambi is so scum sided, I think I favour Bambi over Llama for it.
T-Bone, think I'm just being Paranoid here or is this reasonable?

I am not sure, my experience says that it is scum, who is always too afraid to say such things. Townies happen to be careless.

[Kerset]

Okay I am done. Everyone vote Bambi.

Bambi has actively refused to answer a direct question repeatedly.

I also disliked it, so i will lend you a hand here.

(expired on 2021-05-29 20:00:00)

Here is a timer after which i will vote.

[Kerset]

I saw a marathon of words and I've been gone but from the bit i saw I guess we've been pushing Ration and Ana. It still falls in line with Tbone and VFP being my lockdown pick so there's that.

Only got 1 favor really. I'll obviously vote Ana if y'all don't wanna go along with it but I wanna elim Ration on principal instead and not just getting him on a technicality. It's the same result but voting Ration feels better.

VOTE: Ration

Will probably reread the last 2 pages but frankly nothing on there changed my views at all. I got Smart as the goon from the VTs becuz of Vex, and with Tbone and VFP as town the other 2 are expendable and I think they can convince the other VT (probs Llama) they are the town pair if we're put in Lim or Lose.

You agreed to also vote Ration but what was

your

reasoning at the time.

[Kerset]

Again, you also are unable to determine motivations between me/Bambi just based on me actually trying to drive wagons and move things and them just... sheeping most of my reads?

You underestimate me.

[Kerset]

Kerset and Bingle: do you think Tbone and VFP are a team with Llama?
Tbone and VFP: same question but with Kerset and Bingle instead.

that just sounds like your previous question with extra steps

[Kerset]

Okay I am done. Everyone vote Bambi.

Bambi has actively refused to answer a direct question repeatedly.

I also disliked it, so i will lend you a hand here.

(expired on 2021-05-29 20:00:00)

Here is a timer after which i will vote.

I saw a marathon of words and I've been gone but from the bit i saw I guess we've been pushing Ration and Ana. It still falls in line with Tbone and VFP being my lockdown pick so there's that.

Only got 1 favor really. I'll obviously vote Ana if y'all don't wanna go along with it but I wanna elim Ration on principal instead and not just getting him on a technicality. It's the same result but voting Ration feels better.

VOTE: Ration

Will probably reread the last 2 pages but frankly nothing on there changed my views at all. I got Smart as the goon from the VTs becuz of Vex, and with Tbone and VFP as town the other 2 are expendable and I think they can convince the other VT (probs Llama) they are the town pair if we're put in Lim or Lose.

You agreed to also vote Ration but what was

your

reasoning at the time.

[Kerset]

lol

[Kerset]

If bone comes in and instahammers then i will put all the blame on you bambi for not letting us solve. Neither me or bingle declared the definite scum yet.

[Kerset]

If bone comes in and instahammers then i will put all the blame on you bambi for not letting us solve. Neither me or bingle declared the definite scum yet.

We lose if you don't trust me over Llama anyway. I'm doing something called Trust. I'd lose anyway if Ration and Ana are town cuz Ration literally never unvotes me if he was town cuz he hates me.

I'm working with what I got
.

Me, you, Ana, bingle -> wait for deadline and we get llama voted out by the rules. It is possible...

[Kerset]

@RM how is 1334 a towny mindset?

ignored

[Kerset]

I claim neutral roles just to have a good time.

link?

[Kerset]

So assuming they don't hammer me (which I doubt they will) I instantly proved to you that not only is Llama only with those 2, but also my general theory of trusting you all over Ration and Ana.

How the heck vanilla townie just say something like this. 'Maybe i just gamethrowed but my gut says that likely not'

[Kerset]

I think the better way is to look at Bambi.

Bambi cant be scum with:

Me (duh)
VFP/Tbone (Game would be over)
Bingle/Kerset (Game would be over)

So Bambi is 100% scum

It just depends with who.

I give all the credit to them for trying a gambit, but when its a logic puzzle... the ex-open queue list mod is a horrible person to play it off against.

What? I makes no sense. You can't be scum with me or VFP/Tbone not bambi.

[Kerset]

Kerset has reacted relaxed and humoured at Bambi's play which is extremely odd to me. Bambi also did this after Kerset began to question her.

If bone comes in and instahammers then i will put all the blame on you bambi for not letting us solve. Neither me or bingle declared the definite scum yet.

rly?

[Kerset]

How is this lucky? Are you saying me and Ana are scum?

No. He's saying that the 1v1 is no longer Bambi/Llama but Bambi/AnaRM. Which is true. Bambi is confscum or you're scum. Theoretically, Bambi/RM/Ana is possible from the POV of all of the other players as town, so Llama never gets voted out today.

You proved that two buttons does the same thing but it doesn't imply that we have to press the second one.

[Kerset]

@RM how is 1334 a towny mindset?

ignored

RM you said that bambi is scum for ignoring the question, didn't you?

[Kerset]

@Kerset: Sorry if you already have, but did you give thoughts on this?

TBone/VFP, apologies if I missed it but do you agree that Ana/LF probably isn't S/S?

Actually, I'd kind of like a pair analysis for every pair from everyone.

AnaRM LF doesn't make sense to me because of the consistent push at BoP'ng LF from Ana, both yesterday and today.

I don't think AnaRM Bambi is much more likely given the mutual personality PL bullshit early D1 from RM and Bambi. That seems needlessly toxic as scum theater, and I don't think scum would resort to that when there were multiple other options.

TBoneVFP/Bambi and TBoneVFP/Fluff both seem viable as of 22

1375

[Kerset]

@RM how is 1334 a towny mindset?

ignored

RM you said that bambi is scum for ignoring the question, didn't you?

the question you asked makes no sense to me. What is not Towny about Llama's linked post?

He refuses to give reads and call it not-useful for town.

[Kerset]

Actually I know a way to fuck over Ration if they're teamed with Llama. I just gotta prove the other 2 aren't his partners.

VOTE: Bambi

Team Bingle/Kerset and team Tbone/VFP, just confirm you guys are on at the same time to show you didn't quick hammer me and therefore aren't partners with Llama.

I'm off to work so I'll unvote myself tomorrow if we're still playing and my gamble pays off.

lol

If bone comes in and instahammers then i will put all the blame on you bambi for not letting us solve. Neither me or bingle declared the definite scum yet.

If bone comes in and instahammers then i will put all the blame on you bambi for not letting us solve. Neither me or bingle declared the definite scum yet.

We lose if you don't trust me over Llama anyway. I'm doing something called Trust. I'd lose anyway if Ration and Ana are town cuz Ration literally never unvotes me if he was town cuz he hates me.

I'm working with what I got
.

Me, you, Ana, bingle -> wait for deadline and we get llama voted out by the rules. It is possible...

@RM how is 1334 a towny mindset?

ignored

I claim neutral roles just to have a good time.

link?

Kerset has reacted relaxed and humoured at Bambi's play which is extremely odd to me. Bambi also did this after Kerset began to question her.

[Kerset]

You were laughing in other messages, you can deny it if you want and try to twist what I said. If you really believe Bambi is scum why aren't you voting her?

I fully know it, not just believe, thanks to time and situation and being in the voting position that I am. Ana fully will know it whenever she gets here. I hope you will hammer.

Which messages? My first reaction was 'lol', because it looked ridiculous. After i processed what happened, i was serious.

You shouldn't confuse bad play with scummy play. Just because something is bad it doesn't mean it came from scum. Sometimes townies are insane and the true investigator job is to separate insanity from scum tactics.

[Kerset]

If we don't do VT now then we need to do it tomorrow anyway. Game-wise it doesn't matter.

[Kerset]

VOTE: Bambi

I think that this is wrong choice.

[Kerset]

Keep in mind that llama would ask for bus and RM would never agree to do other person plan.

[Kerset]

VC

[Kerset]

VC 2.13

With 8 votes, it takes 5 to eliminate.

Bambi Jay (3)

- LlamaFluff, RationalMadman, Bambi Jay

LlamaFluff (1)

- Anastasia

Note voting - T-Bone, Kerset, Bingle, VFP

Day 2 ends in (expired on 2021-06-02 16:00:00)

We could have hammered at this point of time. We cant be scum with llama. Still, it doesn't mean that llama is town.

[Kerset]

@bingle how do we resolve this? Do i make case for llama and you make case for bambi?

[Kerset]

@bingle how do we resolve this? Do i make case for llama and you make case for bambi?

No you both vote Bambi, literally. No case needs to be made.

Any askers?

[Kerset]

@llama
Unless you start to think further then for one day. *mind blow* Game-wise it doesn't matter, because tomorrow we need to vote the other option anyway. It is still 50/50 between two VT. You can bend logic all you want but in the end, you only delay the inevitable choice.

I know what do you hope for. You are trying to buy some time and hope that after RM/Ana, you will somehow convince *team llama scum* to get bambi. You think that you figured out 200IQ tactic, which wins you the game, because of the VT ruleset. There is no reason for town!llama to fight for this delay, because town!llama shouldn't be sure whenever RM/Ana is the scum team.

There are only 2days left and you are not trying to figure out the scum team at all. Scum!Bambi could be still teamed with everyone, why are you not afraid that i could be scum here? Maybe Tbone is? If you only convince us to vote RM/Ana there should be a major risk for you to lose. You are not afraid at all, because you know that the solve is RM/Ana.

[Kerset]

@llama
Unless you start to think further then for one day. *mind blow* Game-wise it doesn't matter, because tomorrow we need to vote the other option anyway. It is still 50/50 between two VT. You can bend logic all you want but in the end, you only delay the inevitable choice.

I know what do you hope for. You are trying to buy some time and hope that after RM/Ana, you will somehow convince *team llama scum* to get bambi. You think that you figured out 200IQ tactic, which wins you the game, because of the VT ruleset. There is no reason for town!llama to fight for this delay, because town!llama shouldn't be sure whenever RM/Ana is the scum team.

There are only 2days left and you are not trying to figure out the scum team at all. Scum!Bambi could be still teamed with everyone, why are you not afraid that i could be scum here? Maybe Tbone is? If you only convince us to vote RM/Ana there should be a major risk for you to lose. You are not afraid at all, because you know that the solve is RM/Ana.

Can you clarify? Are you presenting RM/Ana as town in this scenario? Only because a town flip anywhere immediately loses us the game, so there is no tomorrow were we to ignore the VTs and flip a lovers pair. I just want to be able to follow your thought process here.

No, RM/Ana are scum in this scenario.

[Kerset]

I dont re call seeing Llama saying that RM / Ana are scum though.
Only that it benefits town to lim them over Llama. Which it does.

I think either what Llama is saying is still being mis understood, or just manipulated into looking like something else.
Do you not agree that from a town side, the lim should be in Ana / RM over Llama?
This is not from what you know, but from what the pairs know. We know that Llama is only scum with Ana / RM.
From towns View in the lovers there's a 50% chance that scum you is paired with RM / Ana.

If I thought it was Llama, RM, and Ana but its actually you RM, and Ana then a lim on Llama is a loss while a lim on RM / Ana is still potential to win.
Even if it is just Llama, RM, and Ana then it takes 2 days to lim regardless of the order.

There's no benefit to vote Llama today, and even if I think scum I won't be doing so.

Ok, lets say we get Ana / RM today. What next?
Do we kill llama anyway? -> then we only wasted time
Do we reevaluate? -> For Ana/RM/llama there was no new information gained, we only voted there bc of 100% chance of scumteam. There is no new data, the only thing that could happen is trickery.

[Kerset]

VOTE: llama but we need 5, so i will move if you insist

[Kerset]

I dont need to. I have a few more days to figure it out. Today I just can prove you are scum and then we move on from there as I really am not too sure who is scum, as I have a town and scum read in pretty much every pair.

Its pretty much just a scenario where I have broken it in a certain way. Scum *cant* admit to it though. I just need to make sure that things dont go sideways today, and then figure out how to make it work tomorrow.

See and there is the slip. How can llama be sure that RM/Ana is scum, if Bambi can be scum with every lover team?

Only llama can't be teamed with [Ker/Bingle Bone/VFP] not the other way.

[Kerset]

If the scum team is me/bingle/Bambi then how can llama be so relaxed and say that he got few more days?

[Kerset]

Kerstel

It is Kerset not kerstel

[Kerset]

I am pretty sure that plurality won't matter, because Bone and VFP will just settle down on something.

[Kerset]

I still don't get this post

Yet I am *not* confirmed scum to anyone else. However if RM/Ana is not scum, I am confirmed town to everyone else.

and if we eliminate them with town flip then it is gg [3 town vs 3 scum], do you want to be confirmed postgame?

RM/Ana is a spot that anyone can agree with voting apart from them.

Unless the scumteam is me, bingle and bambi. In that case RM/Ana would be game over for you, Bone & VFP.

I actually cant be scum without them being scum. Not sure how this is a difficult concept to grasp. It physically impossible for me to be scum unless RM/Ana is scum *first*,

this is true but what does

thats why I am town,

that mean. I can see why you want us to elim RM before you but it doesn't mark you as town

scum cant deal with targeting RM/Ana first.

*character speaks to himself and loop begins*

[Kerset]

Poor Ana is being used in the same team as before but with me being replaced with RM.

[Kerset]

I see that i will need to be conf!town for final argue.
VOTE: RM

[Kerset]

Outside of what looks to be fabrication on Llamas side, what actually makes Llama scum here?
I'm not asking as if there is anything either.

Did you acknowledge that i didn't call out llama for fabrications but for perpetrator's knowledge?

[Kerset]

Over those two days Llama did nothing to convince people that they need to vote bambi. All he cared about was to make sure that RM dies before him, even that for him every lover pair was possible bambi teammate. It could be Bambi/Bingle/Kerset or Bambi/Tbone/VFP. Town!llama should be worried that miselim is incoming and needs to make sure that it is bambi, who dies today. What did he do? He spend two days arguing that RM should die before him, because he knows that this is his scummate and his elimination will only move us forward in to the next day.

[Kerset]

Hard to tell, bc for me llama was just laying low during d1. Still point could be made that he never tried to solve lovers, neither d1 or d2.
Bambi was just scummy day 1 XD idk maybe she believes in the power of friendship

[Kerset]

VFP DO NOT VOTE LLAMA, you literally carried this game by not voting Llama before just tell me the reason you think it's me, tell the full reason

Why are you not saying 'do not vote me'? If you are town then voting you will also end the game.

[Kerset]

oh i know, because llama said in PT that he can outtalk bambi tomorrow as long as it is you who dies today not him

[Kerset]

vfp DO NOT VOTE LLAMA

please listen to me please, tell me what you are basing this on Tbone.

VFP DO NOT VOTE LLAMA, you literally carried this game by not voting Llama before just tell me the reason you think it's me, tell the full reason

[Kerset]

You should be afraid that we eliminate

you

.

[Kerset]

You can feel the pressure now can't you? It is the pressure of failing to pull of an instawin.

Yea after llama scum flip next day would be just mechanical formality to eliminate you. Such a shame.

[Kerset]

Tiebreaker will kill bambi. That's a shame

[Kerset]

Vfp, if you struggle with VT then solve lovers instead.

[Kerset]

VOTE: RationalMadman

Yay! Justice prevails!

[Kerset]

Oh, also, thanks for carrying me Kerset.

And thanks for trust

[Kerset]

VOTE: llama

E-1


Once we finish it, i will be left with no active game. Could someone join mini theme?

[Kerset]

Anastasia, Mafia Lover, dies as well.

How can i find another waifu after this?

[Kerset]

Ana, we can reunite you with Kerset. As long as he isn't the other VT claim your fine obviously. We just need to save you from the other Lovers I guess.

What if it was bambi plan all along

[Kerset]

ups

[Kerset]

As of now, these PTs are already released, with the exception of Mafia chat, because Kerset still has not given their consent!! You're in deep trouble young man or woman.

I thought that redactions imply that.

[Kerset]

You should stop just posting stuff about Kerset and whatever, it isn't going to be a towntell no matter how you try to play it off, especially as people saw you last game. Try and out a read or two if you can over time.

How rude