Large Normal 232—Sibyl's Elegy [GAME OVER]

[Andresvmb]

In what world do I defend multiple Town executions and ask for my Partner to get executed? And wanted to compromise on the Traitor? What kind of garbage Scum do you take me for?

[Andresvmb]

I defended STD, didn’t vote there, said it was probably Town based on wagon composition. Defended XP for a long time and seemingly on my own even when now flipped Town wanted it executed for information. Did not vote for NDMath and defended it as Town and really didn’t want to see that one through. At some point you just have to really think hard as to why I’m constantly trying to hurt my own position. Like I can’t justify you voting for me here. I’m the only player alive that the Scum haven’t executed that has been consistently fucking right. You know why that is? Because of the competing claims. That’s it. Otherwise I would be executed before DGB. Like c’mon now.

[Andresvmb]

I hate having to defend myself but seriously if you’re Town it’s embarrassing.

[Andresvmb]

And you can come in and make some completely absurd argument that it’s TMI. Yeah, it’s such TMI that instead of reading some of the more obvious players to solidify my position and pocket effectively, I’ve been trying to stand in the way of every major wagon that the Scum have pushed. And on top of that, I make a claim that hurts my position in the game and that verified a PR that had checked someone I had massive suspicions of.

Like how bad do you think I am? Seriously. Do you think strategically I would have done ANY of this as Scum? It’s just infuriating.

[Andresvmb]

AND I had two flipped Scum on me at the end of D1. How fucking horrible are you?

[Andresvmb]

Harm reduction in the form of a Vasex execution is something I’m totally down for. I almost don’t want to phrase it this way but it’s the truth.

[Andresvmb]

Why do you do that? You are too bad in this game for any side if you are going to elim me. Is she pocket you succesfully or you are a scum with her? Because she is definitely a scum.

You’re not serious hahaha there’s no way. You have an astonishing lack of self-awareness.

[Andresvmb]

I need to say that if you dont look at the opinions of dead players to decide who is mafia, you dont know how to play this game. It is perfectly clear now, that Ana is a mafia scum. Rathe, Xp, Dgb, Anya, Std, all of them thought Ana can be scum. This means a lot.

So I highlighted a dead Townies opinion summarizing why NDMath is Town. What did you do? Vote that player and ignore the advice. So are you admitting to not knowing how to play Mafia?

[Andresvmb]

Vasex I’m going to be real with you here. I don’t care what your opinion is. I don’t. Even if the Mod came out and confirmed you as Town, I would ignore you. You’ve consistently shown that your reads are subpar to say the least. I’m not trying to argue with you. What I’ve been saying is that listening to you is directly harmful to Town. And it’s been shown to be correct over and over again. Now, you’ve been so anti-Town, executing you makes sense. It’s just what it is.

[Andresvmb]

T3 wouldn’t have told anyone that NDMath was VT since they weren’t a Role Cop. You do know that right?

[Andresvmb]

What did i miss?

Do you actually read what gets posted? Or do you just constantly expect people to update you?

[Andresvmb]

Mark will vote with Andre i think.

What makes you say this? I don’t think Mark will vote me what.

[Andresvmb]

VOTE: andresvmb

zzz

Are you falling for this 2 for 1 fallacy?

How can you possibly have a list with cons for my slot and not talk about my play at all? All you mention is some AtE supposedly I’ve engaged in today. But not like 4 days of content - nothing on that.

[Andresvmb]

Like my T3 push has been reduced to “off wagon” despite arguing they’re Mafia.

[Andresvmb]

Andres, you think Blood and Kitty town?

No.

[Andresvmb]

He sred Nero, he sred me. I dont think that elimination of Ndmath and your checks change a lot in his pov. More chances he will vote Blood woth you.

This is gibberish to me. Unless you can get in Mark’s head, I’m curious as to when they would have started SR’ing me at all. Since they’ve only expressed TRs of my slot.

[Andresvmb]

He sred Nero, he sred me. I dont think that elimination of Ndmath and your checks change a lot in his pov. More chances he will vote Blood woth you.

This is gibberish to me. Unless you can get in Mark’s head, I’m curious as to when they would have started SR’ing me at all. Since they’ve only expressed TRs of my slot.

hes saying the opposite

I’m not talking to you.

[Andresvmb]

If anybody puts a vote down for Anastasia following Vasex, it’s a Scum claim. Just so we’re clear.

[Andresvmb]

I’m at E-1 btw.

[Andresvmb]

So none of you have an excuse to vote me and pretend you don’t know where the vote is.

[Andresvmb]

Why are you Unvoting? I thought you were sure I was Scum.

[Andresvmb]

Are you joking? This wasnt e-1

I miscounted Kitty’s vote. You’re right I was at E-2.

[Andresvmb]

Sure.

VOTE: Vasex

I will actually celebrate if you get executed. Regardless of alignment.

[Andresvmb]

VOTE: bloodhail

I think Vasex could easily be Scum, I do. But I think this is just safer.

[Andresvmb]

In any case, somebody ping me if we’re getting close to an execution. Or ask questions directly. I am a bit tired of advocating for executions that don’t happen and for people to constantly ignore me. I’m happy to get executed too. It would be a complete indictment on the quality of the Town but I can safely say I’ve seen worse.

[Andresvmb]

Why do we have to execute anyone just so that Nero can “move on”? How about we actually try and execute Scum? Why is anyone even considering what Vasex wants after multiple Town executions?

[Andresvmb]

Why do we have to execute anyone just so that Nero can “move on”? How about we actually try and execute Scum?

y is cabd town?

if cabd is town and im wrongly tunneling him then im helping the scum team so exactly why is not resolving the cabd quagmire the wrong thing to do today? It's 3 v 8. worst-case scenario is im wrong and we go to 3v6 but if im right we go to 2v7. I'm not seeing what the downside is and if you think that this is tvt I don't see why you think having a tunneling town Nero is a good idea

I think there’s a much higher chance bloodhail is Scum, and I think Cabd is just going to flip Town and I’m going to want to tear my hair out.

[Andresvmb]

I think there’s a much higher chance bloodhail is Scum, and I think Cabd is just going to flip Town and I’m going to want to tear my hair out.

but y is cabd town and y did you change your mind there? I'm p sure that @ one point you were considering that I coulda been rght all along.

I’m strongly SR’ing bloodhail. If you make that assumption, that little reaction test around Cabd starts looking really suspicious. It’s one of two things. Scum distancing (I doubt it), or Scum positioning around a Town flip. My gut says the latter. That’s it really - it’s not like I can read Cabd’s contributions or self-vote and definitively say yeah that’s Town. I mean there’s no way. And they’re mis-execution bait I agree there so is there some positive value to an execution there? Yeah, maybe. But you could make the same argument for Vasex then (and a much stronger one).

[Andresvmb]

remember to get andres tomorrow

Just to confirm, if you're town, you've taken this from "poor collective town play" to "bloodhail lied as town and game-threw" as far as how you'll be remembered.

I think this is more likely Town than Scum, and frankly the biggest reason for bloodhail to retract is so that they don’t get speed executed tomorrow. If Cabd is executed now, and flips Town, they get to claim their reaction test was successful and we should have listened. And c’mon now it’s the Scummiest slot alive.

[Andresvmb]

But I mean no one really cares to read, there’s way too many posts because Vasex just spews nonsense nonstop, and Town apathy has truly set in as far as I can tell. Every Town player I had some confidence was Town {Rathe, DGB, Kerset} and some players I would have cross-checked my thoughts with had they remained in the game because I trust their thinking {XP, Anya} are all dead. And Pooky who could clearly carry this Town if they tried doesn’t seem that invested, and Marky Mark has completely disappeared. The rest of you could all flip Scum as far as I’m concerned and I wouldn’t be totally surprised.

[Andresvmb]

Like I even thought Enchant was spewed Town, but I don’t even know anymore. Their vote for me was just a complete eye opener in terms of just how far away we are from winning. The fact that some of you actually think I’m a viable Scum is unbelievable to me. I spent so much time trying to catch up and contribute that I’m honestly personally offended by it. And fine who gives a shit about that we’re trying to win. But the fact that we keep debating what to do with folks that have gotten everything so horribly wrong is just AMAZING to me. I wouldn’t ask Vasex for the fucking time, let alone who the Scum are this game.

[Andresvmb]

At least Rathe is dead and doesn’t have to deal with this shit anymore.

[Andresvmb]

VOTE: Cabd

[Andresvmb]

Alright samantha, let’s test your theory. Why not.

[Andresvmb]

I don’t care if you hammer it or not. At this point I don’t think we can get away from a Cabd execution. So let’s just get on with it.

[Andresvmb]

Now you want to chicken out? All that bravado for nothing.

[Andresvmb]

Amazing. I’m still alive.

VOTE: bloodhail

This first.

I’m also not going to defend much of anything today. Sorry.

[Andresvmb]

It’s like the Scum grabbed my Town pool and decided to execute all of it but me. It’s quite incredible.

[Andresvmb]

Yep I’m outted. Vote me if you want to lose by embarrassing yourself to boot.

[Andresvmb]

let's kill the outted vasex then

Uhm, no. I’m done trusting any of you to do the right thing. We’re going to actually execute Scum. If you keep pushing Vasex I’ll slot you as Scum too.

[Andresvmb]

andres spent the entire day crying about how the wagon was wrong but the second vasex became a counterwagon to cabd they jumped that hammer like flies on rotting meat

You’re such obvious Scum it’s annoying having to deal with these dumb attacks.

[Andresvmb]

do you actually have a reason for bloodhail = scum other than mech?

Listen if you are going to minimize the case to this, then don’t expect me to give two shits about this game anymore. If you can’t see the obvious, that is absolutely on you. I am done fighting. Just don’t care.

[Andresvmb]

Pooky I’m sorry - no. It’s your job. Not mine. Press the ISO button for god’s sake.

[Andresvmb]

Either bloodhail is dying today, or I am. My vote is completely locked, I am absolutely tunneling here, and I’m done conceding to shit.

[Andresvmb]

I have been trying to do that Pooky for 5 FUCKING DAYS. And you haven’t listened to jack shit I’ve said and executed every slot I’ve defended. It’s been a complete waste of my time. I am done trying to do your job. Come up with a rationale as to why me, or bloodhail. That’s it.

[Andresvmb]

At some point the upside of fighting for a view approaches 0. I’ve crossed that threshold in this game. I will no longer be presenting long cases or detailed explanations or go back and re-reading. Until we deal with the obvious, I refuse.

[Andresvmb]

uh you voted Cabd yesterday and I said he was town so don't do that angry "you're not listening to me bullshit"

Oh fuck you. Vote me then.

[Andresvmb]

This conversation is over. I don’t care what you do.

[Andresvmb]

No.

[Andresvmb]

VOTE: Vasex

He has been involved in every single miselim this game and defended the maf PR. He is openwolfing scum. If you can't see this by this stage in proceedings then how many more miselims do you need him to push through before you are convinced?!

You need to back me up. If the Scum have been hiding behind Vasex who has obviously been shit we lose.

[Andresvmb]

I’m not voting Vasex today. Bloodhail needs to die. I’m not going to get aggravated by it either. At some point it’s not worth it.

[Andresvmb]

So please tell me people who are voting blood over vasex how blood is more likely to be scum than the player that defended T3 and has literally been behind Every. Single. Miselim. (bonus points for him also trying to run cabd up on D1)

Where’s your outrage over Nero Cain then? It’s a pure mechanical clear because you could literally say the same thing there.

[Andresvmb]

andre, btw, samantha is vt and had no fruit

We’ve established that my action was interfered with a long time ago. I clearly defended samantha even on this point.

[Andresvmb]

I don’t know that samantha is lying about their role. It’s impossible to know for certain since I publicly claimed my exact role to confirm a Town PR. So if there’s an RB, and it got used on me, it could easily give a false positive that sends the Town astray. So I’m not willing to trust it.

Right here, in case you didn’t remember.

[Andresvmb]

The reason to shoot Samantha is actually really obvious if you sit down and think about it - it materially weakens my PR claim. It completely narrows it down to having been interfered with. Otherwise I’m directly lying. Which begs the question - why would I, as Scum, ever do that? And if you’re going to argue WIFOM, anybody thinking rationally can clearly see that this is detrimental to my position, and cannot be simply dismissed as me trying to inject uncertainty.

[Andresvmb]

Which is why I would never do it. But whatever, I was screaming Scum to bloodhail who is either incompetent or trying to sideline me as Scum, and it’s quite clear it’s the latter.

[Andresvmb]

Don’t interact with me please you’re transparently Scum and making stupid arguments or implying I’m stupid. Go away.

[Andresvmb]

Yeah I decided to wait until massclaim for a Town player to Claim Vanilla so I could claim to have visited them, not execute them so they could claim they didn’t receive my fruit, only to shoot them after because I don’t know how to play Scum. Sure. How genius of me.

[Andresvmb]

Again, no need to have this conversation. I respect that you have to resort to this logic to try and bury me and protect your position. But I’m hoping that the Town in this game see through this nonsense. And if we don’t, then yeah, we deserve to lose.

[Andresvmb]

you’re transparently Scum

then lets vote vasex?

No. Bloodhail is Scum and you should know better.

[Andresvmb]

you’re transparently Scum

then lets vote vasex?

No. Bloodhail is Scum and you should know better.

whos my partner, andres

who is it

We can kill you first and have that debate right after don’t worry.

[Andresvmb]

I am ignoring them. But I’m also not going to let shitty arguments stand. The rationale needs to be explained so that no one has any excuse to rely on it for a vote.

[Andresvmb]

there are two ppl calling each other scum but voting someone else ugh...

What are you talking about? My vote is firmly on bloodhail. Who are these two people you’re talking about?

[Andresvmb]

you and vas although im worried that you and blood are tvt and scum is outside of you 2

This is incorrect. I’m calling bloodhail outted Scum and I’m voting them. I’m still not sure where you’re getting this from.

And we’re not TvT that’s a joke. How many more things do you want to get wrong in a single game?

[Andresvmb]

vasex it hurts me that you don't trust me

Can you not do this? You’re good at this bullshit as Scum and it’s highly manipulative. I don’t trust you for shit either, just so we’re clear.

[Andresvmb]

A bit confused regarding BH vs Andres and I'm unsure who to trust. So I'll not vote either yet without a good reason.

I'm fine with sheeping Nero/Mark.

If we lose, it’s because of stuff like this. If KittyTacky is Town, saying that they can’t be sure who to trust between bloodhail and I is just plain absurd. Sheeping Nero is a laughable position to have in a game where every single position Nero has taken has been wrong.

So in your world, I placed a Town pool of all the players I intended to NK? And defended LITERALLY every single one of the Town executions that have occurred? How likely do you think that is?

[Andresvmb]

My solve is not identical to bloodhail’s after thinking about it because there’s still some ambiguity in my head as to Nero’s alignment. I mean, how can a role that’s literally pushed practically every Town execution and tunneled Town not recognize that they need to take a step back and maybe listen to other voices? It’s really hard to believe.

I honestly really hope Vasex is Scum. I do. It would be a gigantic relief. I don’t think that’s what’s going to happen, but why not hope?

[Andresvmb]

vasex it hurts me that you don't trust me

Can you not do this? You’re good at this bullshit as Scum and it’s highly manipulative. I don’t trust you for shit either, just so we’re clear.

I don't need to manipulate vasex if i'm scum I could just kill him

And this is just... Pooky you really do know better. Why would you kill the slot that has been most obviously wrong and is incredibly likely to get mis-executed this game? You wouldn’t because I wouldn’t and you need to be upfront about it.

[Andresvmb]

Oh look. Nero was Scum?! And bloodhail?!

Fuck you Town.

[Andresvmb]

I called the Traitor Neighborhood too I just couldn’t find it in another game. Ugh.

[Andresvmb]

andre you need to chill man. I'm afraid you'll pop an artery.

Nah man that was fucking horrible. This Town just did stupid thing after stupid thing and completely failed to listen. What a shit show.

[Andresvmb]

Nero Cain survived to Day 6. He was a

Mafia Informed Traitor Neighbour

.

yeah that was never gonna be a town win lol

thank you for hosting, especially for being so prompt

nice playing with you all

This game was lost not because of this I’m sorry.

[Andresvmb]

I got into 1v1s with two Scum and we still executed Vasex. It’s just fucking embarrassing.

[Andresvmb]

lol andres just chill dude

its ok to lose

I am not mad about having lost. I’ve lost other games. But this game in particular was really grating.

[Andresvmb]

enchant was pretty obvious scum. I was rather worried early game b/c I thought there was a good chance they could be flipped.

You were obvious Scum and we didn’t flip you.

[Andresvmb]

enchant was bussing t3 and kitty, and t3 was bussing enchant, + gunsmith clear on nero after a flipped traitor...

mafia played well plus the way events shook out we were mechanically screwed on top of it

You are defending terrible play to make yourself feel better. If we lose to KittyTacky towards the end there fine. We executed Vasex over bloodhail who was screaming Scum, for no good reason at all. And we also ran through two counter wagons of Town. The mechanical solve was just bad luck, but I am still shocked at how bad we played here.

[Andresvmb]

Scum Team played well not to execute the Traitors, but beyond that the Town did the job for them. I just... I don’t know I need to stop getting so emotionally invested.

[Andresvmb]

actually the d1 was kind of a disaster lmao everyone was getting run up, t3's first vote was on his teammate for absolutely no good reason, i just went with the flow and tried to recover afterwards

I highlighted that the game was on a good course towards the beginning. But D3 onwards was a demonstration on how to completely shit the bed from a winning position.

[Andresvmb]

Neighborhood with only scum in it - almost bastard mechanic

This has been used multiple times in different games. It’s definitely not bastard.

[Andresvmb]

I don’t know there are games were I really feel the mechanics screwed us. I really don’t see that here. We need to be more self-critical. We incorrectly cleared Enchant and that started becoming transparent as the game progressed and we did nothing about it. KittyTacky was Scum and Vasex’s head was probably exploding pushing for that slot as Scum which we also incorrectly cleared. And it’s funny because it was literally a PR Claim I’ve seen Scum make. And the rest just played Scummy I mean we at different times named all of them as Scum.

What did we do instead? We blew through consecutive Town players we really shouldn’t have and we kept listening to Scum for I don’t know what reason.

[Andresvmb]

most ppl were town reading me early on. I know you'll disagree but I really feel like the only reason you really really thought I was scum b/c I was fake pushing on you.

Nero go back and read when I called you out. You’re full of shit if you think I called you out because you were pushing me. Just stop.

[Andresvmb]

Let me rephrase. I actually don’t horribly disagree that Kerset is Town. I think Marky Mark is getting too much credit here, but okay fine maybe. And their Tier 2 is all about giving some slots time which okay fine. I just wish they would have more clearly said those two players however most likely can’t co-exist in the same game. Or something of the sort. And I really SR Nero Cain so that one boggles the mind.

I think Kitty is town and thus there's scum on his wagon but @ the very least we should force all the lurkers to start posting.

And after Kitty gets to E-1 btw, nobody thought this was suspicious? This isn’t Scum posturing for a Town flip? Did anybody highlight this?

b/c you know that I'm wrong or something? I have a tendency to think that fast wagons usally hit town b/c they are full of clueless town/opportunistic scum.

there were also such GG posts

VOTE: KittyTacky

I guess i should join something VOTE: Kitty

VOTE: Kitty

VOTE: Kitty

VOTE: Kitty

im not really sure why my opinion is "scummy" unless you know that its wrong.

Sure Nero. You’re going to use the same logic Vasex is using to push me?

Here’s my vote, my logic, and then me highlighting your attack. At least get your facts straight.

[Andresvmb]

Anyway again I don’t care about that. This is one game I didn’t completely shit the bed and I wish I would have had a bit more influence over the Town.

[Andresvmb]

also hahahaha, I only realized this like a month into my review for this setup. But I've done the double-traitor thing before years ago in a Micro that was purely for shits and ~experimentation~, so yea the mod meta was actually there for catching nero out lmao

I speculated about it but I didn’t look through your history just the one about games in general and it didn’t show up anywhere!

[Andresvmb]

Nero Cain survived to Day 6. He was a

Mafia Informed Traitor Neighbour

.

yeah that was never gonna be a town win lol

thank you for hosting, especially for being so prompt

nice playing with you all

This game was lost not because of this I’m sorry.

nth

some of the townies grouped up and made some really terrible pushes.

Ugh I’m mad we executed you. You would have made all the difference. I couldn’t cajole enough votes for shit.

[Andresvmb]

Nero Cain survived to Day 6. He was a

Mafia Informed Traitor Neighbour

.

yeah that was never gonna be a town win lol

thank you for hosting, especially for being so prompt

nice playing with you all

This game was lost not because of this I’m sorry.

nth

some of the townies grouped up and made some really terrible pushes.

Ugh I’m mad we executed you. You would have made all the difference. I couldn’t cajole enough votes for shit.

in fairness even i thought they were mafia

I was torn but wouldn’t have done it myself. We just have a lot of history and I should have listened to that.

[Andresvmb]

sorry to andres u said not to care about mechanics n go on play i didnt listen

No need to apologize. I needed you down the stretch and you got NK’ed. It’s just what it is.

[Andresvmb]

sure that is true but i think more than the setup the scum just played very well

I just don’t agree hahaha we run up a lot of them early. And our group of solid Town really was good. Enchant is the only one that penetrated mine after getting bussed by half the Team.

[Andresvmb]

Kitty I knew was mechanical and needed to get revisited actually. But we never even got close. Leaving Nero and bloodhail alive after their play was a massive mistake.