Gypyx's Mini Normal Review, May 2021


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Post Post #5 (isolation #0) » Sun May 23, 2021 4:55 pm

Post by Ircher »

I would be a little concerned about this setup. I think that scum knowing the entire setup from the start is a strong power for scum to have, and this is exacerbated by the fact that town's investigative roles are loud here. It would not be too hard for scum to use that information to easily kill them, especially since people have a habit of claiming this kind of stuff (like with receiving fruit from fruit vendors). From a power perspective, town's roles are mostly solid, but not super strong: the roleblocker is net positive but also has a high chance of blocking town roles (and is generally seen as a "scummy" role from a claims perspective.) Followers don't realy generate clears; they're better at getting guilties until late in the game. The neapolitan is a solid role, but it takes time to get acting, and by the time it has some clears, it might already be dead. I think that given scum's power here, town could use a little extra. I would suggest dropping novice from the neapolitan.
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Post Post #7 (isolation #1) » Mon May 24, 2021 3:31 am

Post by Ircher »

My feedback was with the assumption it is 13p. At 12p, I would not pass it because evens disadvantage town to a large extent, and there isn't a good way to get back to odds in this setup.
In post 6, Gypyx wrote:- same reasoning goes for loud, players knowing that scum knows the setup should discourage them from claiming their visits because it would (of course they don't know there's 2 loud roles) give scum the info of who they've been targeted by
This may be true in theory, but in practice, people have a long history of either 1) not noticing this information 2) forgetting this information or 3) not realizing the implications of this information that I wouldn't rely on this being the case. Perhaps people would be a little more conservative than usual, but I would still expect loud visits to end up claimed at least a third of the time.

I think you are right about the follower here. It would be a little stronger than I was thinking, but not significantly so.

Your assumption about the roleblocker being seen as town is easily thwarted by the fact that scum knows the setup. They can find a way to make a good claim that fits with the rest. (Obviously, this is more of a matter during Lim-Lo as in other cases, it probably leads to a 1 for 1 trade to make a counterclaim, but the point still stands.) Aside from that, the main power from knowing the setup is being able to fake claim effectively. This setup lends itself well to scum fake claims. That's not necessarily a bad thing, but when you add that the setup makes it easier to find PRs, it does becomes a rather powerful utility to know the setup.

Scum can also just kill the follower to prevent their fake claim from unraveling, so the follower would have to catch them before then.
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Post Post #10 (isolation #2) » Tue May 25, 2021 2:59 pm

Post by Ircher »

Yeah, I don't think adding a bulletproof to any of the roles is a good idea. Generally speaking, scum want to be able to easily neutralize investigatives when they find them because to do otherwise can cost them the game. Not having that power will make scum feel like they lack agency and be incredibly frustrated postgame. Putting it on the roleblocker is probably fine since it cannot catch the last scum, and I think it does lead to a slight boost for town depending on who rands the role. (Not being able to be killed can be a big perk by itself.) That said, I don't think this is a kind of setup that meshes well with a bulletproof role.
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Post Post #15 (isolation #3) » Wed May 26, 2021 3:07 am

Post by Ircher »

Win conditions are worded a bit unconventionally, but I think they still get the same point across. That said, the vanilla townie win condition is worded differently and should be updated to match the other pms. I didn't see any other issues.
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