Open 811 - Lovers and Losers (New Game+) [Game Over]

[RationalMadman]

I await your long essay of why your right and everyone is inferior to your genius brain.

Have you even read the discussions at all recently by the way? Why not counter Llama's logic here? Your not even adding new points why I'm scum.

And if you believe that trio make a damn good case. If it comes to Bingle/Kerset/Bambi and Ration/Ana/Llama we sure as hell aren't gonna lose to you guys.

Why would I counter Llama's logic?????

[Bambi Jay]

Because he fucking wants you dead what do you think I mean.

Point to a time where you disagrees or argued with Llama at all this game.

[yessiree]

VC 2.21

With 8 votes, it takes 5 to eliminate.

Bambi Jay (3)

- LlamaFluff, RationalMadman, Anastasia

LlamaFluff (2)

- Bambi Jay, Kerset

RationalMadman (1)

- Bingle

Note voting - VFP, T-Bone

Day 2 ends in (expired on 2021-06-02 16:00:00)

[RationalMadman]

He is VT and you are Goon. He is saying that me and Ana can be scum with you from his POV. It is true from his POV but it is false. It is bingle, kerset and you.

[VFP]

Because he fucking wants you dead what do you think I mean.

Point to a time where you disagrees or argued with Llama at all this game.

@T-Bone - if you see what Llama is doing as lying, then so is Bambi here, right?
Bambi has been manipulating this entire argument with the only counter that just isn't true. Llama doesn't want RM / Ana dead.
Either I'm just reading entirely wrong or Bambi is doing what I expect them to be doing here and confusion the argument.

[Bambi Jay]

VFP, has Llama given any indication he's looking into the pairs at all? All he suggested is eliming those 2 instead of him. If he doesn't want them dead he sure as hell hasn't fought for anything else.

[yessiree]

@Mod: since Llama surpassed me in votes for a bit but we're tied again, is he set to die in plurality or is it me since I was at 3 first? That seems like important information to have rn.

In case of ties, the player who reached the most votes

first

will be eliminated

[Bambi Jay]

That didn't tell me who you would've taken out in that situation but appearantly it won't matter since we're solving this today.

[yessiree]

That didn't tell me who you would've taken out in that situation but appearantly it won't matter since we're solving this today.

You in this case

[Anastasia]

I don't see how anyone thinks Llama is mafia here.

The only team he could be paired with is Me/RM.

If you look at the interactions between my slot and llama's slot, does it really look like scum theater to anyone?

I am town.

Llama is town.

Let's vote out Bambi and we can talk about which lover pair to eliminate tommorrow.

[VFP]

VFP, has Llama given any indication he's looking into the pairs at all? All he suggested is eliming those 2 instead of him. If he doesn't want them dead he sure as hell hasn't fought for anything else.

It's been pretty hard when Llama has had to keep explaining the same thing over though.
It's also down to the fact Llama has to lim you today. You have to lim in the lovers, so you need to know in the lovers.

[VFP]

Okay I'm home now.

[Bambi Jay]

Welcome home.

[Kerset]

Poor Ana is being used in the same team as before but with me being replaced with RM.

[Bambi Jay]

That's a downgrade if I've ever seen one.

[Anastasia]

I miss you Kerset

[VFP]

Right here VFP. Bambi was not at L-2 when this occurred. This is the "proof" being fabricated.

Like, Kerset/Bingle not hammering Llama has nothing to do with Llama's alignment. Llama continues to try to claim Kerset/Bingle's actions (or lack of actions) as proof to him being town. That's dishonest.

Llama then tries to frame this vote as RM/Ana vs. Bambi because of this supposed clear. That's a dishonest argument you are falling for atm. There's nothing honest or true about that argument.

Llama then uses that position to try and tell us 'if Bambi were town she should vote for RM'. That's dishonest.

I'm gonna need something more compelling than 'Llama can only be scum with RM/Ana'. If that's true then let's solve that problem today.

Okay, so again I see where you are at with this but it still just feels Llama with the right mindset rather than trying to trick us. It's a lie / fabrication that is easily found out. Llama isn't dumb, and I don't buy that this was a scum mistake / lie as it would just be poorly actioned and lazy on his side.

But I agree with.Llama 100% that it's Bambi vs RM / Ana. I think this is a big part that isn't coming across accurately. This doesn't mean its scum in 1 of these, it means this is where the votes are at. Llama scum is irrelevant at this point and its a case of you lim Bambi or you lim RM / Ana.
It's not framing at all, and this is where Bambi has just muddied the water by claiming it is.

If Bambi is town then yes they should vote RM / Ana. This isn't for the PoV of Bambi but as PoV for town. Town Bambi knows the exact team. We know who can be scum.
For me and you, without reads its 50% chance Llama scum and 66% RM/Ana scum. The odds alone mean that town (including town Bambi) benefit from voting here. There's no mis guidance here in whats said regardless if Llama is actually scum.
The argument for Llama scum is being forced to play this argument, rather than lying on this argument. However, i feel that no one bringing this up suggests Llama as town.

What you need to consider with Bambi is the following.

Babmi blindly followed us all game and marked us as town.
Bambi wanted Bingle and Kerset to have the option to hammer.
Bambi then makes a play that to clear us and Bingle / Kerset from buddies with Llama. To me this just feels like leaving a town pair with either option to make them the optimal lim over 2 pairs who are now limited to scum groups.

If you don't trust Llama, surely you trust me in saying that what Llama has presented is correct, even if scum?
If Llama was to be the lim 100% I will veto to an RM / Ana lim to at least give us more time if right. I think we just lose on Llama though.

Bingle has voted RM / Ana because that pair has to vote there or risk being pushed as scum minded.
The only reason RM / Ana have to push Bambi over Bingle and Kerset is because of Llama not knowing the the pair is.

[VFP]

Outside of what looks to be fabrication on Llamas side, what actually makes Llama scum here?
I'm not asking as if there is anything either.

So we know Day 1 Llama wanted to vote RM / Ana, but I I joined Llama moved to SS who was my leading VT scum.
With what we know now, what level of consideration do we take that Llama was legit doubting, or Llama was distancing and had to not risk RM / Ana as scum?

Outside of that I don't recall Llama doing scummy actions of even influencing my reads in a way but there may parts I'm missing.

And that question is to everyone really.

[Kerset]

I see that i will need to be conf!town for final argue.
VOTE: RM

[Bambi Jay]

Won't it be funny if the five town vote out Ration and Ana, yet Llama never voted there at all? Then they flip scum?

VOTE: Ration[/vote

If this let's us finally just argue between me and Llama without him hiding behind those 2 as a shield fine.

[Kerset]

Outside of what looks to be fabrication on Llamas side, what actually makes Llama scum here?
I'm not asking as if there is anything either.

Did you acknowledge that i didn't call out llama for fabrications but for perpetrator's knowledge?

[Bambi Jay]

VOTE: Ration

Sigh.

[VFP]

Outside of what looks to be fabrication on Llamas side, what actually makes Llama scum here?
I'm not asking as if there is anything either.

Did you acknowledge that i didn't call out llama for fabrications but for perpetrator's knowledge?

I was originally aiming that all at T-Bone at first.
Go over again you're push. I'm not saying you're wrong here I want to see what I'm missing to what T-Bone isn't.
What is Llama's perpetrators knowledge?

[RationalMadman]

Outside of what looks to be fabrication on Llamas side, what actually makes Llama scum here?
I'm not asking as if there is anything either.

So we know Day 1 Llama wanted to vote RM / Ana, but I I joined Llama moved to SS who was my leading VT scum.
With what we know now, what level of consideration do we take that Llama was legit doubting, or Llama was distancing and had to not risk RM / Ana as scum?

Outside of that I don't recall Llama doing scummy actions of even influencing my reads in a way but there may parts I'm missing.

And that question is to everyone really.

Llama isn't scum here, do you want me to rehash why I originally did think Llama could be scum regarding the D1 sudden push on S_S?

[VFP]

Llama isn't scum here, do you want me to rehash why I originally did think Llama could be scum regarding the D1 sudden push on S_S?

In fairness there's no need for you or Ana to go through this as it's basically like asking me why T-Bone is scum at this stage.

I can talk about Bingle / Kerset or Bambi though with you 2.

Bambi I put the main scum parts in 1741 but from your view am I missing anything obvious?