osuka's Mini Normal Review, June 2021

[osuka]

i think we get rid of the doctor and make the gunsmith odd-night

[osuka]

on the phone right now so it’s hard to post a complete list but pretend like it is here

should we give scum more utility as well?

[osuka]

how about traitor combined cop neighborizer? that gives less info to town on a traitor flip

the idea behind disloyal was for there to be a misleading pseudo soft clear on the mafia neighbor

[osuka]

so traitor neighbor and mafia neighborizer?

[osuka]

what if we make a town neighborizer and give mafia another pr? say we have cop traitor and mafia roleblocker

[osuka]

traitor neighbor and mafia neighbor rolecop + mafia rolestopper? no neighborizer here, but one town neighbor

[osuka]

so how about

Code: Select all

1x odd-night traffic analyst
1x non-consecutive 2-shot town jailkeeper
1x town weak visitor
1x town even-night gunsmith
1x town neighbor
5x vanilla townies

1x traitor combined cop neighborizer
1x mafia even night commuter
1x mafia odd-night rolecop

[osuka]

i'm a fan of the setup above and i think it captures the original spirit i had in mind

[osuka]

are any of the tprs particular pain points for you?

[osuka]

when you say cop traitor might cause anger, do you mean it'll anger town, the traitor, scum, or a combination of the above?

[osuka]

definitely agree with isis that you should keep in mind that having a traitor is actually a pretty serious downside to the scumteam, and historically has a tendency to produce a lot of resentment towards the setup

so how about

Code: Select all

1x odd-night traffic analyst
1x non-consecutive 2-shot town jailkeeper
1x town weak visitor
1x town even-night gunsmith
1x town neighbor
5x vanilla townies

1x traitor combined cop neighborizer
1x mafia even night commuter
1x mafia odd-night rolecop

the town neighbor here is stranded, there isn't any other corresponding neighbor (the neighborizer doesn't start in a neighborhood with the neighbor by default, that's not how it works)

i personally would remove the scum commuter—seems somewhat out of place with the "core" of the setup and doesn't seem to provide a lot of utility, so i default towards less complexity. i'd also agree with isis in cutting the weak visitor.

doh i removed the mafia neighbor but forgot to remove the town neighbor - that's my bad.

we can get rid of the town neighbor and the visitor. how about making the maf commuter a traffic analyst? that would give

Code: Select all

1x odd-night traffic analyst
1x non-consecutive 2-shot town jailkeeper
1x town even-night gunsmith
7x vanilla townies

1x traitor combined cop neighborizer
1x mafia traffic analyst
1x mafia odd-night rolecop

if you think this is still a bit town sided, i think i like the idea of adding a negative modifier to the gunsmith or the jailkeeper (macho gunsmith?)

[osuka]

to explain a bit, the idea behind the cop neighborizer was that they would have a powerful check with the side effect that it added them to a neighborhood. because nobody starts in a neighborhood, the traffic analyst would actually be more powerful than i wanted it to be - the traitor will have to make a choice _between_ checking and neighborizing, which makes the role significantly less powerful, and which also significantly decreases the possibility of a false positive for the traffic analyst

i think my brain short-circuited for a second - a traitor cop makes no sense, because the traitor knows the identities of the mafia team and, by exclusion, knows everyone else is town (because this is a mini, so no multiball or neutral roles are allowed)

perhaps traitor combined rolecop neighborizer is better? i really want the setup to have a bit of flair, lest we end up with "just another setup" - which may be a good thing, but, you know?

[osuka]

so effectively that means that the mafia rolecop should be changed. what about a mafia strongman?

also: if the traitor is a combined neighborizer rolecop, making the traffic analyst even-night favors scum ever so slightly (since there's probably one slot that will give a false positive, versus zero). that would give:

Code: Select all

1x even-night traffic analyst
1x non-consecutive 2-shot town jailkeeper
1x town even-night gunsmith
7x vanilla townies

1x traitor combined rolecop neighborizer
1x mafia traffic analyst
1x mafia strongman

we could also say one of the mafia is informed that the traitor is capable of private communication - i think that adds depth to the setup and goes well with the rest of it

[osuka]

sorry i literally just played a misgame where i was the traitor and didnt know the mafia identities so yes i am an idiot and yes you were right

i didnt mean to make it sound like you were a square

[osuka]

and besides squares are great shapes

[osuka]

perhaps traitor combined rolecop neighborizer is better? i really want the setup to have a bit of flair, lest we end up with "just another setup" - which may be a good thing, but, you know?

also, just a note on this—"just another setup" really means "a really good setup" here. kind of the entire philosophy behind the normal queue is a relatively standard, consistent experience. it's much much worse to try to have a really unique setup and end up with the players hating you than it is to just stick to something more standard.

i meant more like a standard experience that isn’t too bland. i agree that really weird setups aren’t fit for the normal queue, but i don’t want something that’s been done 100 times over

[osuka]

so do we like the setup in #32?

[osuka]

cool - should we inform scum that the traitor is capable of private comm?

[osuka]

i don't think it's necessary either, but i like the idea. Do you think that adds too much power?

[osuka]

you think so? the traitor makes scums life a lot harder. in a scenario where the strongman dies, the jail keeper becomes much more powerful - but until then it’s still a role blocker.

what if we made it a non consecutive jailkeeper minus the 2 shot gate?

[osuka]

or we could add a jailkeeper backup

[osuka]

odd night strongman can kill as a goon on even nights, right?

[osuka]

yurrrrp

[osuka]

that gives

Code: Select all

1x even-night traffic analyst
1x non-consecutive 2-shot town jailkeeper
1x town even-night gunsmith
7x vanilla townies

1x traitor combined rolecop neighborizer
1x mafia traffic analyst
1x mafia odd-night strongman

is this the final setup?

[osuka]

if i get the green light i'll draft some role PMs

[osuka]

welcome to Mini Normal 6969, whatever flavor i decide to make it edition

you are a

vanilla townie

.

you have no special abilities.

you win when all threats to the town have been eliminated.

confirm your participation in the game and acknowledgement of this role PM by replying with your role. As a reminder, do not quote private moderator communications outside of this conversation until the game is complete.

Spoiler: vanilla townie

Code: Select all

[i][size=150]welcome to Mini Normal 6969, whatever flavor i decide to make it edition[/size]

you are a [b][color=green]vanilla townie[/color][/b].

you have no special abilities.

you win when all threats to the town have been eliminated.

confirm your participation in the game and acknowledgement of this role PM by replying with your role. As a reminder, do not quote private moderator communications outside of this conversation until the game is complete.[/i]

welcome to Mini Normal 6969, whatever flavor i decide to make it edition

you are a

town even-night traffic analyst

.

during even-numbered nights, you may check another player to verify whether they are capable of private communication.

you win when all threats to the town have been eliminated.

confirm your participation in the game and acknowledgement of this role PM by replying with your role. As a reminder, do not quote private moderator communications outside of this conversation until the game is complete.

Spoiler: town even-night traffic analyst

Code: Select all

[i][size=150]welcome to Mini Normal 6969, whatever flavor i decide to make it edition[/size]

you are a [b][color=green]town even-night traffic analyst[/color][/b].

during even-numbered nights, you may check another player to verify whether they are capable of private communication.

you win when all threats to the town have been eliminated.

confirm your participation in the game and acknowledgement of this role PM by replying with your role. As a reminder, do not quote private moderator communications outside of this conversation until the game is complete.[/i]

welcome to Mini Normal 6969, whatever flavor i decide to make it edition

you are a

town non-consecutive 2-shot town jailkeeper

.

during the night you may jail another player, rendering them unable to perform any night actions and protecting them from being killed. you may only perform this action twice, and you may not perform a night action two nights in a row.

you win when all threats to the town have been eliminated.

confirm your participation in the game and acknowledgement of this role PM by replying with your role. As a reminder, do not quote private moderator communications outside of this conversation until the game is complete.

Spoiler: town non-consecutive 2-shot town jailkeeper

Code: Select all

[i][size=150]welcome to Mini Normal 6969, whatever flavor i decide to make it edition[/size]
you are a [b][color=green]town non-consecutive 2-shot town jailkeeper[/color][/b].

during the night you may jail another player, rendering them unable to perform any night actions and protecting them from being killed. you may only perform this action twice, and you may not perform a night action two nights in a row.

you win when all threats to the town have been eliminated.

confirm your participation in the game and acknowledgement of this role PM by replying with your role. As a reminder, do not quote private moderator communications outside of this conversation until the game is complete.[/i]

welcome to Mini Normal 6969, whatever flavor i decide to make it edition

you are a

town even-night gunsmith

.

during even-numbered nights, you may check another player to learn whether they have a gun.

you win when all threats to the town have been eliminated.

confirm your participation in the game and acknowledgement of this role PM by replying with your role. As a reminder, do not quote private moderator communications outside of this conversation until the game is complete.

Spoiler: town even-night gunsmith

Code: Select all

[i][size=150]welcome to Mini Normal 6969, whatever flavor i decide to make it edition[/size]
you are a [b][color=green]town even-night gunsmith[/color][/b].

during the night you may jail another player, rendering them unable to perform any night actions and protecting them from being killed. you may only perform this action twice, and you may not perform a night action two nights in a row.

you win when all threats to the town have been eliminated.

confirm your participation in the game and acknowledgement of this role PM by replying with your role. As a reminder, do not quote private moderator communications outside of this conversation until the game is complete.[/i]

[osuka]

welcome to Mini Normal 6969, whatever flavor i decide to make it edition

you are a

traitor combined rolecop neighborizer

. your teammates are

{}

, a

mafia traffic analyst

and

{}

, a

mafia odd-night strongman

.

during the night, you may target a player to learn their role and add them to your neighborhood.

you win when the town no longer has a voting majority, or when nothing can stop that from happening.

confirm your participation in the game and acknowledgement of this role PM by replying with your role. As a reminder, do not quote private moderator communications outside of this conversation until the game is complete.

Spoiler: traitor combined cop neighborizer

Code: Select all

[i][size=150]welcome to Mini Normal 6969, whatever flavor i decide to make it edition[/size]

you are a [b][color=red]traitor combined rolecop neighborizer[/color][/b]. your teammates are [color=red]{}[/color], a [color=red]mafia traffic analyst[/color] and [color=red]{}[/color], a [color=red]mafia odd-night strongman[/color].

during the night, you may target a player to learn their role and add them to your neighborhood.

you win when the town no longer has a voting majority, or when nothing can stop that from happening.

confirm your participation in the game and acknowledgement of this role PM by replying with your role. As a reminder, do not quote private moderator communications outside of this conversation until the game is complete.[/i]

welcome to Mini Normal 6969, whatever flavor i decide to make it edition

you are a

mafia traffic analyst

. your teammate is

{}

, a

mafia odd-night strongman

. there is a

traitor

in the game.

during the night, you may check another player to verify whether they are capable of private communication. additionally, you share a factional night kill with your teammate, which either of you may execute.

you win when the town no longer has a voting majority, or when nothing can stop that from happening.

confirm your participation in the game and acknowledgement of this role PM by replying with your role. As a reminder, do not quote private moderator communications outside of this conversation until the game is complete.

Spoiler: mafia traffic analyst

Code: Select all

[i][size=150]welcome to Mini Normal 6969, whatever flavor i decide to make it edition[/size]

you are a [b][color=red]mafia traffic analyst[/color][/b]. your teammate is [color=red]{}[/color], a [color=red]mafia odd-night strongman[/color]. there is a [color=red]traitor[/color] in the game.

during the night, you may check another player to verify whether they are capable of private communication. additionally, you share a factional night kill with your teammate, which either of you may execute.

you win when the town no longer has a voting majority, or when nothing can stop that from happening.

confirm your participation in the game and acknowledgement of this role PM by replying with your role. As a reminder, do not quote private moderator communications outside of this conversation until the game is complete.[/i]

welcome to Mini Normal 6969, whatever flavor i decide to make it edition

you are a

mafia odd-night strongman

. your teammate is

{}

, a

mafia traffic analyst

. there is a

traitor

in the game.

you share a factional night kill with your teammate, which either of you may execute. during odd-numbered nights, if you perform the factional kill, your action cannot be stopped by any means as long as the targeted player is not untargetable.

you win when the town no longer has a voting majority, or when nothing can stop that from happening.

confirm your participation in the game and acknowledgement of this role PM by replying with your role. As a reminder, do not quote private moderator communications outside of this conversation until the game is complete.

Spoiler: mafia traffic analyst

Code: Select all

[i][size=150]welcome to Mini Normal 6969, whatever flavor i decide to make it edition[/size]

you are a [b][color=red]mafia odd-night strongman[/color][/b]. your teammate is [color=red]{}[/color], a [color=red]mafia traffic analyst[/color]. there is a [color=red]traitor[/color] in the game.

you share a factional night kill with your teammate, which either of you may execute. during odd-numbered nights, if you perform the factional kill, your action cannot be stopped by any means as long as the targeted player is not untargetable.

you win when the town no longer has a voting majority, or when nothing can stop that from happening.

confirm your participation in the game and acknowledgement of this role PM by replying with your role. As a reminder, do not quote private moderator communications outside of this conversation until the game is complete.[/i]

[osuka]

let me know if i fucked it anywhere

[osuka]

welcome to Mini Normal 6969, whatever flavor i decide to make it edition

you are a

traitor combined rolecop neighborizer

. your teammates are

{}

and

{}

.

during the night, you may target a player to learn their role and add them to your neighborhood.

you win when the town no longer has a voting majority, or when nothing can stop that from happening.

confirm your participation in the game and acknowledgement of this role PM by replying with your role. As a reminder, do not quote private moderator communications outside of this conversation until the game is complete.

Spoiler: traitor combined cop neighborizer

Code: Select all

[i][size=150]welcome to Mini Normal 6969, whatever flavor i decide to make it edition[/size]

you are a [b][color=red]traitor combined rolecop neighborizer[/color][/b]. your teammates are [color=red]{}[/color], a [color=red]mafia traffic analyst[/color] and [color=red]{}[/color], a [color=red]mafia odd-night strongman[/color].

during the night, you may target a player to learn their role and add them to your neighborhood.

you win when the town no longer has a voting majority, or when nothing can stop that from happening.

confirm your participation in the game and acknowledgement of this role PM by replying with your role. As a reminder, do not quote private moderator communications outside of this conversation until the game is complete.[/i]

[osuka]

oops i fucked it

here's the actual code for it

Code: Select all

[i][size=150]welcome to Mini Normal 6969, whatever flavor i decide to make it edition[/size]

you are a [b][color=red]traitor combined rolecop neighborizer[/color][/b]. your teammates are [color=red]{}[/color] and [color=red]{}[/color].

during the night, you may target a player to learn their role and add them to your neighborhood.

you win when the town no longer has a voting majority, or when nothing can stop that from happening.

confirm your participation in the game and acknowledgement of this role PM by replying with your role. As a reminder, do not quote private moderator communications outside of this conversation until the game is complete.[/i]

[osuka]

I'm a little nervous about simplistic gunsmith PMs. Would prefer it say "whether the player has a gun in flavor" or link the wiki page.

NSG is correct about traitors learning their partner's roles.

Need results PMs.

i can link to the wiki

flip pms would be the same except they’d be redacted so as not to show identities and roles

[osuka]

traitor doesn’t learn about mafias roles, only their identities. that should be reflected in the role PMs

[osuka]

oh yeah right, sorry i’m drunk

results PMs would read like

for gunsmith:
“{} has/does not have a gun”

for traffic analyst:
“{} is/is not capable of private communication”

for jailkeeper:
“{} has been jailed.”

for rolecop:
“{} is a(n) {}, and they have been added to your neighborhood.”

[osuka]

let me know whether or not i should send jailkeeper a PM after their night action

[osuka]

cool yeah sorry i was way too intoxicated last night, i don’t even know how i managed to make that sound coherent

[osuka]

oh right, those two

"during the night, your action failed."
"during the night, {} visited you and invited you to your neighborhood." (this should have a link to the pt somewhere)

sorry i'm doing the bare minimum, i have an ungodly hangover and i'm struggling to survive

[osuka]

rules

Shamelessly stolen from gobbledygook, who shamelessly stole his rules from PenguinPower, who shamelessly stole his rules which were shamelessly stolen from various (probably shameless) moderators.

general

1. Game-specific and Universal Mafiascum rules apply.
2. Do not quote private moderator communications or pretend to do so.
3. There is to be no game-related personal communication outside of the forum postings unless your role PM specifically allows it.

If someone contacts you outside the game, report it to me IMMEDIATELY.

4. This game will start with a Day phase.
5. No ciphers, encryption, extremely small text, or other similar tactics may be used.
6. If you have the ability to edit, refrain from doing so.
7. It's your responsibility to read and understand all of the rules. If you have questions, send me a PM.

activity

1. Aim for one post every 36 hours, at a minimum.
2. After 36 hours of no activity, a prod may be sent to the inactive player.
3. A prodded player has 36 hours to respond to my prod with a substantive post in-game, after which time a replacement search will begin.
4. A player who has been prodded 3 times will be subject to replacement with no further notice.
5. If you plan on being inactive for more than 36 hours, PM me to let me know you plan on being V/LA.
6. If you plan to have regularly scheduled V/LA period (e.g. the weekend) please send me a PM.

deadlines

1. Game days will last 10 calendar days.
2. Nights will last 48 hours.
3. Extensions may be given out in extreme circumstances, and are up to my discretion. If you would like to request an extension, you may post in-thread or send me a PM.
4. If you have a role with a Night action, your action is due by the posted deadline. If no action is received by the posted deadline, you may forfeit your action(s). Players with a Night action may submit a "No Action" PM to indicate you do not wish to perform your action.

voting

1. A simple majority of all living players must agree on one person (via voting) for an Execution to occur (

n

= floor(

player count

/2) + 1); if a simple majority of votes has not occurred by the deadline, no Execution will occur.
2. Votes should use Vote Tags or they may not be counted.
3. You may VOTE: No Execution ("No Lynch" is also accepted - see here for more information) - a simple majority (as described above) of No Execution votes will result in a no execution, and an immediate move to the Night phase.
4. Quoted, spoilered, or otherwise hidden votes will not be counted.
5. Misspelled, abbreviated, or otherwise modified player names in votes will be counted, as long as there is no ambiguity.
6. Once a simple majority of votes has been reached, no further votes will be counted.
7. When a player is executed, the game enters twilight until the thread is locked; all players may continue to post.
8. If you are killed, you may no longer post. No "bah" posts.

miscellaneous

1.

This is my color.

Do not use it.
2. If you think I have made a mistake, send me a PM.
3.

Bold all requests made to me in-thread so that I don't miss them.

Using "@mod" is helpful. If I

do

miss them (consider me replying to a later post in the thread or posting a votecount "missing"), send me a PM.
4. Rule violations will be dealt with based upon severity at the sole discretion of the mod, or in agreement with the relevant listmod.
5. Any situation not specifically covered in the above Rules is subject to moderator discretion and will be handled as seen fit.
6. All Private Topics have daytalk.
7. No part of the flavor will contain game-relevant material (including, but not limited to: pictures, descriptions, vote counts, and death scenes).

[osuka]

Those two are fine. "Your action failed* messages are only given to players who were roleblocked while performing some type of investigation. They should not be sent when a kill fails

yup noted

i've modded games on ms before, just never with my own setup. i kinda sorta know what to do

[osuka]

VT pm is going in there - i just didn't include it because i didn't think it was part of the rules. sorry i took that too literally

thanks for the suggestion about no exec - i'll change the rules to reflect that

[osuka]

about the vote tags vs bolded votes: i'll bold that bit of the rules (ha) and if i catch a bolded vote i'll point out in-thread that it's not being counted. call me a hardass, but vote tags exist for a reason and people should use them - it's _way_ too easy to miss a bolded vote (compared to a vote tag), and it breaks my vote counter (which is, admittedly, not even finished and pretty broken already). really my rationale is that there's no real reason for someone to opt for a bolded vote as opposed to vote tags - it's even shorter to type VOTE: user[{/}v] than to do

vote: user[{/}b]

[osuka]

you got it. i feel like agreeing speaks for itself, but a dissenting opinion needs to at least be explained to some degree

on a side note, thanks to you all for being fucking awesome and walking me through my first setup. you guys are great <3 <3 <3