Happy Face Mafia (Game Over)

[willow1]

dope, thanks, let's fliparoonie

[willow1]

but why do that when we can speedgame and free maria of the pain of moderation

[willow1]

retti has to go to the bathroom so we better make this quick

[willow1]

regardless wait for professor to post some

the last two pages are your fault and i hope you're happy

[willow1]

idk the most straightforward issue would just be a mask downside of sanity but I'd rather just chug along, take the blue pill, and pretend maria doesn't put stupid shit in the game

[willow1]

VOTE: andante

[willow1]

and here i thought only wheme was dumb enough to shoot one of rom/bam, I did him dirty im sorry

im not opposed to mc, curious what retti thinks.

my first instinct from last night was basically just vote raya/jjh and skimming isos i saw no reason wynaut

also idk why sam wants to die. also the asking to be nked is wild given that we... probably do not have a second vig?

[willow1]

the mafia: damn, too many obvtown day 1 and we lost our rolecop in a power heavy game. we're fucked
sam: say no more fam i gotchu

[willow1]

no mask

retti ur doing the lord's work

wtf re: sam's role

[willow1]

reads list

hard town: dunnstral, sam, t3, bear hugs, retti, flea
townlean: vfp
null: titus
scumlean: jjh, raya, titus, professordrapion

now that professor isn't the vig he can move down from null, way down

i thought i would have a lot more names to pick from so making this list and seeing 6 hardtown was cool and everyone else down low was kinda nice

[willow1]

hypothetically if there's scum in the hard town it would be bear hugs thinking powerbussing in a closed theme is a good idea but i'm not revisiting that until elo

my money would be on 4 scum not 3 btw

[willow1]

the duality of titus

her day 1 was still awful and i didn't like her first half of day 2 but she definitely did kick a bit more into gear the latter half of day 2. i don't think the dunn overconfidence was that town but that was my only real bone w/ late day 2 and i believe her claim

[willow1]

that wasn't to me i think but u got my commentary anyway ty

[willow1]

srry that's 2 big of a word 4 me

[willow1]

hypothetically if there's scum in the hard town it would be bear hugs thinking powerbussing in a closed theme is a good idea but i'm not revisiting that until elo

my money would be on 4 scum not 3 btw

Funny you should mention that - the info I got from using my ability N1 was that there are 4 scum (the thing about needing to use it twice was a bluff so I wouldn't get shot N1)

I was so disappointed.

big f, pretty standard given the size of the game

[willow1]

(you listed titus twice)

third scumlean is the real one, thx 4 da assist teach

i didn't like listing her above jjh so she got moved down

[willow1]

it is presumably not prof/raya given ur claim but it's my list thx

[willow1]

wait no i accounted for it she's #2

i'm 2 high 4 this retti help

[willow1]

i can't read my own readslist i am old, senile, washed up

[willow1]

VOTE: jjh

neat now i can admit to being wrong on titus and sail forth in peace

worth voting this over sam imo even though losing a town sux

[willow1]

UNVOTE:
actually want to finish the mask claims, i want to fullclaim by end of day tho

[willow1]

p. sure i am at the limit of my usefulness which is why i want to fullclaim before day end

[willow1]

trying to wring out every last bit i can

[willow1]

ie. wait and decide after if i should have claimed immediately

[willow1]

i'm back to where i was at daystart of just raya/jjh

need to finish the mask claims and/or fullclaims if we want

[willow1]

we're on evens so i think it's fine to vote jjh first. we might lose a night result from a pr but it seems like we only have one proper cop who scum will shoot regardless. sam shooting tonight doesn't lose an elim.

[willow1]

can you put together a full list for me just to verify everyone has claimed it retti

if what you are saying is true this is gg

[willow1]

actually jjh might be the last mask user rip

[willow1]

yep lmao

[willow1]

looking at the list I think that's everyone?

i am a mask checker who has all of vfp/titus/raya as possessing no masks, checked in that order. i softed this a few different times, might collect the posts at some point.

[willow1]

ie. if jjh does not have a mask this will be auto

[willow1]

now u kno why I loved vfp claiming maskless unprompted d2 and you asking for mask/no mask today lmao, also why i was fine with no elim day 2

[willow1]

VOTE: jjh

like i said w/ even number alive this should be fine

[willow1]

eh it depends on jjh having the mask or not

if he doesn't then ya gg if he does then raya should proby be next up imo

[willow1]

In jjh w/ no mask case there are literally 8 clears in the game lmfao

[willow1]

that said something tells me this is just going to be raya or drap

[willow1]

Us being on even numbers means we don't lose an elim from you shooting once. Even if you shoot a clear who cares because there are so many alive at least one will be around come Elo anyway (as opposed to two in Melo)

the exception is if there's a kill blocking action in which case voting you first is optimal

[willow1]

that said something tells me this is just going to be raya or drap

But Raya was the cw to Bell!scum and jjh was voting her, so I think that extremely unlikely. Unless you’re suggesting that jjh busses Raya to save Bell rolecop? I think that’s unlikely.

idk I'm not exactly tryharding but fair enough. I've given my 4 person poe

[willow1]

while ur more likely to shoot a clear and be a minor negative utility, on the offchance u shoot someone like me, titus, raya, vfp, drap that is a free elim that is hugely +town

[willow1]

actually it's 50/50 even better

[willow1]

i am arguing for scenario 3 if that was unclear

[willow1]

the extra kill is literally free

does ms not understand the rules about odds/evens

[willow1]

scum!jj wants Sam's extra kill. jj's claim is fake to get it so we elim jj tonight and sam lives to kill an extra townie.

great, now can u evaluate the optimal play directly without relying on what scum may or may not want as the crux of the argument

[willow1]

and we STILL got a stupid amount of clears out of it ROFL

this game owns

[willow1]

sam is almost certainly town by virtue of being a vig so hypothetically we would go titus into probably flea

[willow1]

oh yeah, that next, yes

[willow1]

jjh flipping town would somehow be even better for us believe it or not b/c of retti's info

[willow1]

jjh town would equal titus plus one of the mask users

The mask users are Dunn (town), Sam (town), Retti (almost certainly town), T3 (almost certainly town), Flea

[willow1]

depends on what t3's town-indicative result actually is but we can sort through this tomorrow in any case, no point dealing w/ hypothetical jjh town world rn

[willow1]

do you hear that retti?

it's the

sound that races through the end of the world

sound of me possibly still being right on titus

the dream is still alive

[willow1]

Retti looked at Dunnstral and saw on his eyelashes the first glimmer of wintry frost. Then he looked at willow1, his invincible power, his intrepid tunnel, and he was overwhelmed by the belated suspicion that it is life, more than death, that has no limits.

"And how long do you think we can keep this goddamn Titus scumread coming and going?" he asked

willow1 had kept his answer ready for fifty-three years, seven months, and four days and nights.

"Forever," he said.

[willow1]

realtalk the titus scumread is dumb because andante suddenly swapped over to wanting her voted out iirc, and posts like 1227 seem to be buddying town more than s/s, but i was born a dreamer

[willow1]

wait am i having fun in a mafia game, and this mafia game of all of them

pretty sure that's not allowed

[willow1]

bear hugs does not have a mask

with that i have investigated every no mask claim except professordrapion. retti's info clears every mask claim.

i would be shocked if scum had no mask holders given 3 flipped w/ no mask. probably just professordrapion.

[willow1]

wait I'm dumb bell had a mask ignore me

[willow1]

i'd probably go sam into drapion then worry about me/raya/vfp after

reasoning behind the bears check was that there were only two people left to check, them and drapion. drapion is getting voted regardless of the result so might as well double-check the bears claim

anyway it's 2 early 4 me so back to sleep gn all

[willow1]

oh and gj sam u shot an unclear, proud of u and thanks 4 free extra elim, that rng coming in clutch

[willow1]

also everyone is miscounting, after we yeet sam we have 3 elims

9 players -> yeet sam
7 players -> yeet drapion
5 players -> yeet in pool
3 players -> yeet in pool

[willow1]

I am 99% sure u r wrong but i will actually work through your suggestion with you at a reasonable hour of the day or let retti do it for me

[willow1]

Nope im wrong even w/ the elim count I'm pretty sure leaving sam is optimal and Dunn is right
will post work in morning when i doublecheck

[willow1]

essentially we get three free choice day elims either way, but reduce the scum NKs to only two by leaving sam alive. this means Sam shoots 2 clears and we get the same scenario of 3 way no clears after 2 elims (worst case and identical to vote Sam plan), she shoots 1 clear/1 unclear and we get two elims plus a final 3 way w/ clear (better), or she shoots two unclears and we get mech autowin (best)

very counterintuitive and interesting result

[willow1]

gj dunn willow big dumb

[willow1]

uhhh there is scum counterplay with scum shooting sam tonight, exact result depends on whether or not her big still goes through but I still think the worst case scenario is 2 elims plus 4 way w/ a clear which matches the expected result of yeet sam plan

fuck it guess I didn't need to go back to bed anyway

[willow1]

raya it's counterintuitive but i just worked through it and i'm pretty sure Dunn is right and leaving sam alive is mechanically equal or better no matter who she targets or who scum targets, feel free to work through it b/c chance of me committing 4am error was high

[willow1]

yes, it is even in the absolute worst case scenario (3 elims, last 4 way w/ clear) identical to the plan with yeet sam which is very fixed in outcome (3 elims, last in 3 way no clear)

[willow1]

and there's no reasonwhy mafia would kill me, though the only reason I'm here now is to get us into odds?

it is actually optimal to kill you tonight, the exact result depends on your kill but it would take a lot to explain

I highly recommend grabbing paper and working through the worst case scenarios on your own

[willow1]

actually that's a lie if your shot doesn't go through it's better to leave you for a night but this is still good for us. You should not clarify whether or not your gig goes through, it is better if we don't know

basically there's an ev floor where down gets 3 elims, the last of which is 3way no clear/4 way one clear. yeeting you is that floor.

if you shoot an unclear either night that ev floor goes up. if you shoot two clears it's equivalent to the floor

[willow1]

my phone really likes to autocorrect vig

tl;dr of spam don't vote sam let her shoot & sam don't tell us if vig goes through or not if killed

[willow1]

I am not at all comfortable with being alive in a game with gladiator/role thief/etc.

I really think it's a bad risk

too bad my little homicidal innately -ev pr serial killing friend

we have use for you yet

[willow1]

"yo sam we need you to vig another town should b easy 4 u LMAOOOOOOOOOOO"

[willow1]

it's not moot b/c it means we get to vote him 2day u dummy and sam gets to LIVE

[willow1]

anyway can u verify that me/dunnstral are right so we can get this train a movin'

[willow1]

funnier when it's retti and the information you are relying on was fake to begin with

while technically possible and something i've thought about this actually doesn't change much. consider the possibility in 3/4 way if he's alive but it's still mech optimal barring a scum doublekill which i'm fine w/

[willow1]

if there's 2 scum left i blame mariar

[willow1]

This is so stupid lmfao I love it

right? it's so counterintuitive it's amazing. the key to making it work specifically comes in denying scum a third kill

in conjunction with not wasting the elim

, but vigging two clears is just such a stupid fucking idea on the face of it lmfao

[willow1]

VOTE: professordrapion

i may be covered in cat hair

but i still smell good

VOTE: professordrapion

[willow1]

titus i will now officially concede. u were, in fact, town.

[willow1]

u r gonna shoot more town and u r gonna LIKE IT

...

maybe game might be over but IF ITS NOT

[willow1]

unsurprisingly retti has a mask

we lucked out I think, bear was very town but technically unclear so we should have one alive in 3 way. I guess if sam shoots flea and scum shoot sam retti isn't technically clear

retti do you have any night actions/any other info

[willow1]

so I asked about night actions specifically b/c I know you (retti) were online 3-4 hours before deadline which piqued my curiousity. which is not really the most fair thing in the world but c'est la vie

f in the chat for poison, im tired and dont wanna mechanic atm but probably just vote in raya/me/retti/vfp today because that will be the exact 4 way if we vote sam anyway

[willow1]

while confirming my results with mariar i got clarification that a negative result could also mean my action failed which kinda sucks but at this point the negatives don't matter much

confirming though that i never targeted flea. hypothetically I could have been redirected last night to faer but doubtful? previous nights I definitely would not have been b/c of the negative result

[willow1]

my mask checking ability is an ungated role power and not a mask, ie. no downsides

[willow1]

for play I'd go raya here though I need to review the day 1 wagon which people said was super +town

but retti being online for no reason w/ no night action to submit and knowing bell is deadweight as scum has me Afraid

P-Edit: ya that was the only thing i could possibly think of. scum having redirector and poison would be wack so doubtful that happened, something has to be a mask downside

[willow1]

The fact that this is 6 player MELO w/ presumably only 1 scum is hilarious

though Sam can shoot the same as the NK which means maybe not

[willow1]

rereading jjh i don't see much to comment on. his raya evolution is bad and I'd vote her for it on a spare elim but not a final one. basically he votes her then just never revisits until robert claims seer, at which point jjh swoops in and says something about raya being scum again w/ the d1 elim already set. later he puts raya/andante as town in the same post

in contrast, rereading andante her and retti are clearly unaligned imo from her side of the interactions so my fear is gone. if she got me she got me but I'm not reconsidering retti at all today

[willow1]

flea is 100% clear unless the team is exactly retti/flea so time to go to revisit raya

[willow1]

here are the posts I'm essentially clearing retti off of

if robert town, we cry, cause I'm trusting gladiator lol

If Retti was voting Raya, why did Retti duel Bell/Robert? This game, people aren't making sense ahhhh (I promise I'll be fully caught up before D2)

If Retti was voting Raya, why did Retti duel Bell/Robert?

Bell had effectively scumclaimed with his replace out (which he did in another game as scum), I had only moved my vote to raya because the slot was empty at the time and people wanted to wait for a replacement before voting.


For the record, with Bell/Robert confscum, I think Raya's behavior around the wagon is terrible.

I see, that'd make sense!! I feel like a lot of this game is going to make more sense when I'm caught up, cause looking at your vote on raya, then duelling bell... but if bell scum claimed, why waste a duel on it? I'm assuming you have a limited number of duels, and it's not infinite?

[willow1]

andante literally had a mental breakdown in thread at me putting her as my third scumread so i don't think she is experienced enough to fake that high quality of distance, esp when one of the posts is blatantly curious mechfishing and another testing the waters on if retti could get voted out instead

also unclear what that process is about me not clearing retti as scum. i see very obvious incentives to do so even without the knowledge he is essentially my twitch tier 2 sub whiteknighting simp this game

[willow1]

I don't understand why a 2 shot gladiator would receive information after using the gladiates without some sort of prefix attached to it

I assumed the whole time that it was a prerequisite to wearing your mask

I don't have an explanation for it, take it up with the mod, not me. My mask just gives me another shot and I didn't see a point in using it after all the info I got was useless.

??? we got 5 clears out of it, granted some were free anyway

like bruh u coulda used on jjh

[willow1]

scum me can safely put the eggs in getting you voted out w/ vfp as a backup, there's no point in me damaging credibility going on a tinfoil adventure against retti except for bizarre towncred

you are 100% the targeted miselim no matter who scum is in me, retti, vfp and not a crucial swingvoter lol

[willow1]

tbf at some point you get forced more passive if you have to be the one to go deep

but me ever voting bear hugs/forcing them to come into the game was a day 1 hard townclaim just because the chance of getting stupidly powertunneled by obvtown is too high

[willow1]

at some point i should reread vfp but his posting the last few days has been stellar imo

[willow1]

maybe later since atm that's working purely off memory and not that i actually went back and revisited just now, and I'm kinda 2tired2read more right now

[willow1]

I promise I will circle back later but brain says no more think atm

[willow1]

I'm really busy the next 4/5 days so ill try to carve out some time to tackle vfp vs. raya this morning if i can get coffee+brain kick-started

pretty sure no elim is best b/c sam can still shoot any of me/vfp/raya

[willow1]

wait hold on i thought macho is just can't be protected, where are you getting an extra kill on flea from? should just be NK, poison, samshot for 3 deaths in 6 players.

[willow1]

i'm just going to mechanically ignore whatever flea's claim is b/c i'm pretty sure scum don't have an extra kill and we just no elim here

anyway guess it's time to get crackin' on the rereads

[willow1]

Time to start actually getting into this game. Took some time to read through and sort everyone.

Town

Bear HUGS

- hard town for being the one who got bell eliminated

Retti

- hard town for the gladiate against bell

Esooa

- hard town for case on bell. Didn't sound like a distancing type of case.

willow1

- hard town for the push on bell. Didn't feel like distancing.

Townlean

Andante (Enchant, Unwnd)

- Enchant gave in to sam and voted Dunnstral too easily which shows an extent of not caring where their vote is. They said it was to see what happened which I don't fully buy or understand. Probably town though for saying we should elim bell no matter how towny the replacement seems. Andante seems towny in general too.

Scumlean

jjh927

- I'm always wary of people who say scumreading me is valid (493), townread a post of bell's but also said it wasn't representative of the rest of the iso yet still has bell as a townread a few posts later. 914 is wanting to go for me (a counterwagon to bell before the duel). Not sure what to think of him taking technical credit for that though.

i found this readslist really interesting, cut out most of it. the reads on the two scum are surprisingly believable to me+4 people in the hardtown bloc is bold, even if the 5th on deck was scum

[willow1]

a lot of my issue with this slot is that it soft defends bell for so long and defends enchant/unwnd for extended periods, and whether that's because of their sr on sam in conjunction with enchant yoloing with his vote, or because raya is chainsawing and doesn't want to bus, is tough to tell

[willow1]

(also dw will still get to vfp after i finish up, order here is raya->vfp->flipped scum isos)

[willow1]

Willow vs Andante sounds very TvT. Both sound genuinely frustrated and I do still have a decently confident TR on both of them

I'd be happy going back to sam. I'm not fully convinced jj is scum and I'm definitely not interested in Andante.

VOTE: sam

ok i hit by far the worst parts of the iso where she's swapping around on dunn, t3, sam, and combine that with the bell/enchant defenses early and Oh No

that said raya did have some vaguely believable back and forth w/ jjh about me actually

time for vfp but my guess is that i'm going to be relying a lot on how andante treats the two slots. not going to try to read into jjh or enchant

[willow1]

the last thing i noticed w/ raya is that even though she's spending a lot of time softdefending scum she's also spending a lot of time giving hard townreads on town+challenging attacks on them, and she was rather quick to want to no elim for titus duel

[willow1]

My boozle requires assistance, VFP.

Because you're focus is going where I'm thinking.
Your questions aren't questions to look busy but actually want the answers.
164 is a decent take, even if some errors.

the quoted:

willow
Romance
Raya
Titus

-----NULL LINE-----

VFP
samantha
Enchant

-Bam

has an interesting readslist that iirc will remain mostly unchanged from bam? they might move vfp up later but considering bam was the scum nk might be worth digging deeper into that iso too, on the face of it shooting this slot makes a lot of sense if they're 2 for 3 still at EoD

[willow1]

vfp also gave 5 town as hardtown day 2 wo welp.

read on jjh is kind of sketchy:

219 shows no concern of the game, which could be because there's no pressure on them. 490 / 490 / 495 / 498 / 502 are posts just saying what people want to hear.
504 is jjh's first solid take for me, and is in favour of a town to scum post here. I like the Raya / Smantha scum leans as I don't favour either of these, the Retti being added just gives opportnity for a back lash.
The rest of the ISO seems like filler. I'm not so much as scum on this slot, but I don't favour them as scum over town if I had to pick.

there isn't a real point to this next quoted sequence it's just hilarious in hindsight, dunn a straight shooter

VOTE: jjh927

Anybody else want to do a sanity check and go over Andate's iso in relation to her stance on me?

Where did 1361 and 1368 come from?

Outside of Andante and jjh do you have any reads?
I can't see your stance on anyone else.

[willow1]

ok the second the titus lim starts happening i'm thinking vfp is town, stays on raya/titus for awhile over andante which isn't great but the whole time he's making it clear he doesn't feel good about a titus vote and actively fights a dunn vote. metas titus to argue for the no elim, arguably that's all just for cred but the second the guilty gets whipped out on andante the process he pulls out is super believable.

later he irons out the clears/extremely hard townreads and comes up with this the second andante flips

Even with me in the pool it should just be jjh, me, Raya, and Drapjon for last scum.

this dude really wants to lose the game as scum

[willow1]

i'm very wrong in my memory about bamboozle

hectic's got vfp as one of his strongest townreads (second 2 me tho~~) and is hardpushing raya at EoD

pretty close to just voting raya

[willow1]

ok i didn't get as much out of andante's iso as i hoped, and her interactions with jjh make me think i underestimated her to begin w/ even if that overreaction to me was hella rookie

[willow1]

so i think jjh's progression on raya is actually pretty telling

Aside from you being locktown
Bear hydra is locktown
Enchant is town
Bamboozle is town
VFP is town
Bell is town
Wheme looks town
Titus looked town but I'm not sure I can read Titus


Raya is a scumlean, as is samantha, and I'm torn on Retti

Raya's approach to sam just looked really strange, and I feel conflicted on Retti because I've liked the posts but they don't quite radiate town

these posts were made when jjh was the only vote on raya. vfp is the top wagon at this point but it's dying.

Bell's last post looked really bad

Does Bell have any inactive town games or is relative inactivity actually a scumtell? I'd be somewhat happy to vote there if so, and I have mixed feelings about the counterwagon forming on Raya.

now suddenly he has mixed feelings on the counterwagon, and the most recent vc is this:

3rd time is the charm lol
Bell (5): Esooa, Bamboozle, Enchant, PenguinPower, Bear HUGS
samantha97 (5): Raya36, VFP, Romance, willow1, T3
Raya36 (5): jjh927, WhemeStar, Titus, samantha97, Retti
Enchant (1): Dunnstral
Romance (1): Bell
Retti (1): Flea The Magician

yikes.

finally, the post that's most interesting to me is this one. it's right after robert has claimed seer and is obviously going to get yeeted out the window.

I think it's worth waiting for clarification on the claim before talking about multiball or even taking it seriously

On another note, I'm back to being happy with Raya votes. This can be another piece of evidence in favour of my lazy playstyle guiding the elim onto scum with minimal effort

what makes this post fascinating to me is that jjh is not playing to improve his own selfimage or position here. w/ the seer claim robert flip is now unavoidable, but instead of just taking the L and moving on and voting robert he returns to aimlessly voicing the desire for raya votes. this will obviously not look great when bell flips, and at a minimum he's not getting credibility to get a day 2 push on raya

if he's not trying to flip raya, and he's not trying to look better himself, whose position is he trying to improve by playing this way? my thought process is this benefits raya, or way, way later down the line himself if raya flips instead

[willow1]

going down your list retti for vfp some of these stuck out to me

- Andante barely acknowledges his existence

i think andante actually did a better job than we originally thought w/ partner interactions, go back and look at her/jjh and her/enchant.going down your list retti for vfp

- jjh calls him town earlier and buddies Esooa for "challenging the VFP wagon", otherwise calls him town with nothing attached, mentions him as a scumlean late with no reasons attached to it

fair enough but i read this as jjh being very afraid of esooa and wanting to get on her good side; see post of him explicitly saying "you're already in my townpile". it's weird to insert himself here and try so hard for an esooa townread while she's already swooped into save a partner VFP and is actively championing him. this is someone afraid of being cornered by a strong town w/ correct reads (esooa) imo

- wants Titus over andante (1432) but otherwise barely acknowledges her existence (1813 also looks weird on a revisit)

this wasn't that bad i think given his meta on titus+him making it clear he wasn't enthused with the vote to begin with.

the things you brought up that i need to chew on b/c they're valid concerns are that VFP didn't weigh in as much on scum slots, which is a problem if it holds on all the flipped scum

[willow1]

vfp, i'm been using "him" but this is incorrect and i should be using they/them. i am very sorry for the mistake and will try to correct it moving forward and i am especially sorry i didn't notice until after the reread

[willow1]

tl;dr of all my conclusions

-raya softdefending scum like it's her fulltime job
-jjh scared of esooa nailing vfp town and defusing that 1v1
-jjh raya progression some ass
-vfp had a pretty town d2 with resisting all the large townwagons+i liked their reaction to andante d3 even if arguably null

i wanna no elim into vote raya

[willow1]

also important one i missed

-bam had vfp town and was hardpushing raya at end of day 1

hypothetically if jjh wants a raya wagon at some point - whether he's the one driving it or not - this makes no sense

[willow1]

i did reconsider retti earlier in the day but decided against it

i was originally afraid of like bear hugs thinking that scum

had

to have a mask but then i realized bell had one and 3-1 and 2-2 for mask ownership are both plausible to me.

finally i was concerned i might have gotten roleblocked after receiving clarification after getting clarification that a negative result did not mean i successfully targeted them (ie. i may have been roleblocked) but jjh was an even-night roleblocker so both vfp/raya are likely genuinely maskless, though i will probably be reinvestigating anyway as going elsewhere makes no sense

[willow1]

i'll probably vote no fade in the morning but i'm tired boi and dunno if there's any tasks left to do, might doublecheck the vote out today strat if i feel motivated

[willow1]

as long as u don't shoot retti or flea ill be happy, and we will 100% blame u personally if u do

make the 3 way easy or shuffle me off this mortal coil thanks

[willow1]

retti on the surface though voting did look better b/c the info aspect actually works for both?

im fine w/ either but kinda sick of working out mech atm, just tell me what to do

[willow1]

sure ok ty

VOTE: no fade

[willow1]

real glad we no faded lmfao

raya still had no mask, v shocking I know

I'm traveling atm but oh boy

[willow1]

Well played Retti.

this threw me before realizing you seem to think it's retti? is this interpretation correct?

why tf is it him over me fypov

[willow1]

Willow can be added because scum don't need to know who has a mask or not, rather than who has a role or not.

I really don't see why this is more conclusive than dueling scum twice?

It also makes sense to split up the powers, and from what we've seen town disproportionately had masks

Also pretty confused by two deaths, scum presumably shot Sam so the poison claim is ??? Scum shooting Raya makes no fuckin sense

[willow1]

Like I would consider Retti solely b/c 1 scum 6 town for masks is a bit weird

But two shot gladiatorial poisoner is uhhhh out there

[willow1]

nk actually kind of makes sense here so that is my guess

going to trust sam wasn't doing something stupid w/ poison claim and scum has the power

[willow1]

I think killing retti was a stronger play for scum vfp but sure ill take it

[willow1]

mechanically this game is wild

scum loaded as fuck w/ role cop+thief, rb/second jjh power, poisoner, but apparently no ninja (since jjh got caught)

thief taking vig would have been super op, mine isn't a bad runner-up to grab either since it would consolidate

[willow1]

for some reason it won't let me quote anything but doubt inflatables stopped kill as vigshot went through

[willow1]

I do not understand why, as town, you are not giving serious consideration to me being mafia. You are not even entertaining the idea and it feels performatively goofbally.

The game is over if you are town and get voted out. Why are you telling Flea to stick to the plan and vote you out?

[willow1]

sup

[willow1]

i find the bit about going raya yesterday so-so. as scum you don't want to risk losing the target elim to the vigshot, but getting the elim only to have town bailed out by the shot is worse & more likely

flea is very unpredictable w/ how fae would feel about me imo and while arguably i could get scared of you reconsidering, i think the kill would hypothetically have been free and makes the game much more straight forward to win

actually thinking more about that faer has hinted about being pgo so might have been like hell naw from that perspective, half of why i never bothered mask checking them. meh.

[willow1]

My concern is that yesterday I felt like you should have recognized that regardless of whatever points you were making against Raya, her response was towny, and you not recognizing when that happened is something of a red flag for me. It made me worry that you were committing to push there no matter what.

i didn't find it town. obviously in hindsight w/ her flip it now is but scum raya seriously needed to hail mary ate to win the game and sometimes that means playing possum. vfp did similar with the pool. re: last line i don't really think who i choose to push would differ much as scum so sure.

I also feel like you've been fairly lax with townreading me (even before the gladiator claim stuff) where normally I say something innocuous and you jump down my throat for it, in a sense the lack of paranoia has

me

paranoid about possibly being pocketed here

uhhhh this game is long+on the backburner so i don't really remember my entire progression but basically i had you in the nullzone until you came to bat for me w/ vfp. at that point i was actually worried you were trying to pocket me, and grew more concerned because i thought esooa was town. then you softed that mechanically u would do something dumb and so i was like "ok retti just can't hold it this is classic big baby retti". bell flip made me just slot you as town until proven otherwise even if hypothetically could still bus, yesterday reviewed b/c had to and thought the andante interactions town

i also specifically got feedback on that innocuous comment trap card in a recent game, srry that i don't wanna link here. while i was aware of it previously i have had it in mind since

So, n your own words, what are the reasons you aren't scum here?

idk people townreading me for no reason has been wild my vote record is sketch and i didn't really push on bell except as a tool to be like "wtf titus"

some clear things that stick out to me as divergent are 1. risking the retaliation powertunnel from that cursed hydra to begin with 2. being ok w/ no elim on titus (which was only because i could mask check her, and i fully expected it to flip positive)

[willow1]

this is really funny to me rn because this whole preemptive paranoia is very similar to a fake paranoia sequence i did the final day of my last scumgame (not draft mafia) which instinctively sketches me out

but also 1. ofc it's now that u call me out 4 it 2. i don't think it's actually anything

[willow1]

idk what ur expecting here dog anytime someone asks "why r u town" it's gonna get a "here are the million reasons why my play makes perfect sense as scum and ur dumb, ackshually. im town tho" response i can't help it this is known

[willow1]

wait i know what'll help ur paranoia

here's this sequence from jjh it's not sketchy at all lmao dw about it

Willow's reads feel pretty out there to me, which I'm taking as a sign that Willow is town

Scum are more inclined to come out with reads that are similar to what other people in the game are putting out


On the same note, I think I can see T3 scum but will have to iso properly

Titus is just town fwiw

Willow's reads feel pretty out there to me, which I'm taking as a sign that Willow is town

which

Doesn't seem like a readslist made to appease at all; in other words it is sincere

Most of it is null or leans
The list has Esooa, who I feel is generally a consensus hard town as only a townlean, and I don't think there's a lot of attention on VFP right now

That most of it is null or leans even on slots where there's a consensus

There aren't any extras sneaking in that Willow hasn't been focusing on just for the sake of agreeing with town

[willow1]

idk actually the titus/bell progression is pretty town in the sense that i didn't powershove bell but actively got in the way of people derailing it w/ reasoning that was obviously garbage (titus explicitly argued that this wasn't bell's scumgame and i was like ??? it might flip town b/c could just be busy+demotivated as town too but absolutely this is classic bell scum)

and in particular didn't try to use that to really swing it elsewhere, let somebody else swing it elsewhere, or even use it to get an elim. i didn't like titus's positioning but i went to bat for that elim so hard only to give it up for free. no reason to stop other than bear spamming she was town, which is not something to back off for or really be afraid of when i am intentionally burning my credit to get a vote day 2. that backoff only happened because i knew if she was lying i'd get her day 3 and that the vig meant we'd win back the elim

[willow1]

Spoiler: more chicken soup for the paranoid soul

titus post is something i'd do as scum but titus ain't me. i don't wanna vote there. i don't really want to vote sam or raya either.

i'm actually pretty happy w/ where my vote is atm. classic dilemma of "want to get real discussion by voting someone active but don't want to vote anyone active"

this is a hydra i expected to start strong and instead has 1 post

Why wouldn't you vote me as that would be a way to break out of RVS? If scum would do it, that's a reason as good as any in RVS.

The hydra I understand not posting but it is the weekend.

This is the first exchange that pings me.

Willow is being very tentative, and waffly. Willow says that Titus may be scummy for a reason, but this reason may not apply to Titus, so doesn't want to vote Titus or Sam or Raya (I would wager at least one scum in this group of three, that's how the brain works). The fence-sitting continues with "I want to vote an active player but don't want to vote an active player."

Titus astutely picks up on this too and calls out willow on it. Yes, why wouldn't willow vote Titus, as she stated a very valid reason to do it, especially surrounding the RVS?

I town read Titus here for boldly asking willow to go ahead and vote her. I scum read willow for sounding nervous and scared.

because i don't give a shit about RVS or arbitrary breakouts or VCA lmao

immediately told you why my vote was where it is, why it wasn't on you, and don't care if it's the weekend. one head being absent rn is understandable, all three isn't a crime but i am very happy where i am.

Super touchy and defensive already.

it's being condescending while actively getting in the way of me trying to do things that is getting you flak from me

Thats productive.
You consider pushing a PL mid way page 2 for activity as 'trying to do things'.
So go over again why I should vote with you? I'm open to voting.

do you think i'm scum shoving a lurker? food for thought

I'm unsure on your motive yet.
But I don't think you believe in your push. Even more so where you expect people to Blindley follow you.

Either town trying to actually get out of RVS or scum trying to look active without doing anything.

If I thought you were scum I'd have voted you by now.

Let's vote sam. Sam is around and I'm not so sure their take on enchant is genuine

VOTE: sam

On page 3, VFP reads as town for his calling out of willow and the careless way they throw their vote around. No concerns whatsoever.

Why are you voting for no elim VFP?

This is a rubbish push on a joke random stage vote by VFP.

[willow1]

anyway at some point i should check the mask info claim timeline but i really think you're town mechanically over that much qualitative.

maybe the poison would be the reward for the second gladiate but this setup is wack

[willow1]

totally agree w/ the bit about bell being dead in the water, more about getting setup well only to abandon it b/c bear said no, which did not bother me at any point day 2 up until the maskless claim

[willow1]

anyway if you want to do this we're going to do this all the way

I don't need to say it at this poin,t but willow is really blatantly town.

Everything VFP is saying in response to him is just deflect, riposte, parry, there's no substance to the responses, his only argument is that willow sounds "fake and forced"

i gave this as pass b/c shared my scumread and i was indeed town

but the blatantly town bit suggests that the "blatantly town" bit held even if vfp flipped town, which is a little too strong for my taste.

y, i can be hella aggro towards lhf as scum too

[willow1]

the speculation about the poison being a reward was more from the angle of

you're scum gladiator, you lied about the setup info (which would be super fuckin clever ftr) and instead the second reward for winning was a poison. you also want to use poison as late as possible when solo so idk what you mean about holding it but i don't really want to work through what days were the gladiates+corresponding numbers atm so. actually i guess you'd get it n3 when i think only 2 dead scum so yeah maybe, dunno how much scum knew but could be scared of doc since that only flipped the next morning

[willow1]

anyway if you want to do this we're going to do this all the way

I don't need to say it at this poin,t but willow is really blatantly town.

Everything VFP is saying in response to him is just deflect, riposte, parry, there's no substance to the responses, his only argument is that willow sounds "fake and forced"

i gave this as pass b/c shared my scumread and i was indeed town

but the blatantly town bit suggests that the "blatantly town" bit held even if vfp flipped town, which is a little too strong for my taste.

y, i can be hella aggro towards lhf as scum too

I think at that point in time it wasn't the aggression but the way you were approaching the argument with assmad frustration - you felt tilted at VFP in a way that I only expect to come from you as town where you'd be more in control as scum (although that's conjecture on my part)

this is really funny to me because iirc i wasn't actually mad or tilted at all, just very intentionally aggressive in ways similar to other accounts. i was more concerned about getting bogged down in the weeds and making it unreadable which is why i tried so hard to disconnect it

[willow1]

anyway idk how much to buy that given that i have faked that same aggro annoyance in literally every single scumgame i have ever played onsite and yet people cite it as a classic towntell for me anyway it's bizarre

[willow1]

i actually did get so tilted at titus actually but that was because she didn't understand basic premises or logical implications which for someone of her exp/vocation is kinda ???????

but she town i bad so

[willow1]

i mean i think it's plausible to think that given what you've seen and you're not the only player who feels it's ai for me

i could backlink the miniature version in draft mafia/hint at where other games could be found but this is more hypothetical armchair curiosity that i am prone to rather than anything relevant to the actual game in front of us

[willow1]

idk part of me wants to do due diligence and ask about shit part of me looks at esooa slapfight+vfp metadive and says "yeah that's town retti"

there are clear red flags to iron out when motivated skimming the iso (raya vote+pushing d2 only to drop her completely on a dime) but i really don't feel like doing them rn so maybe later

[willow1]

yeah i'm just gonna take my time and wait til i actually feel motivated to root out shit instead of the "meh just assume i'm right and call it a day" attitude i have atm

if u have any questions for me feel free, i have questions but they're gonna wait until i actually care

[willow1]

I mean it's lost if you want it to be but me/Retti both have concerns about the other and Flea is a clear that exists with fae's own viewpoints

If I'm not going to convince you I'm scum that's uhhhh, good for me, but I don't understand how it is not even remotely on the table esp when my rolepower is unverified and we have a confirmed poisoner

Don't get me wrong, I'm leaning voting you, but by playing dead and saying just get it over with you leave me with little other choice, because there is no town incentive and some scum incentive.

[willow1]

similarly to how i will wait a few days until i care enough to grill retti on any/all concerns i find in a few days, i hope you feel a bit more inspired to play later as well

i don't think giving up on the game and saying "id lose here just vote me and end it" is fair to me/flea, or most of the dead town

[willow1]

...and yet he's scum over me just b/c scum can't have an (unconfirmed) mask checker?

idk dude will circle back in a few days but this is really disappointing, there's no reason to waive the white flag as town

[willow1]

got through the whole retti iso

"eh i'm fine calling it town"

get through a lot of the vfp iso

"yeah i'm fine calling it scum"

remember the esooa kill

now i sit in doubt

[willow1]

honestly esooa doesn't play bejeweled 2 deluxe so i'm fine to just go vfp honestly

i don't like some of retti's positioning around me but if he got me he got me

[willow1]

the virgin Retti:
wracked with doubt
is scared of willow
"m-maybe I should reread"
pees self constantly

the chad VFP:
has already made up his mind
doesn't feel the need to convince anyone
"I know when games that have a chance of winning at this stage, and this isn't one of them"
gives absolutely no fucks at all

this is hilarious but the ability 2 remove urself enough to make this post is ironically what scares me but it's ok

[willow1]

aight so retti my concerns are essentially

-raya flipoff on a dime
-duels you didn't have much other choice
-poison is possible mask reward
-tr on me was 2ez
-tring raya 4 "just vote me" stuff but not vfp is weird to me
-iirc your progression on jjh is ehhhhhh

vfp has some moments that are town like resisting dunn vote+defending titus, the claim, and specifically asking dunn if he had thoughts on ppl not andante/jjh was bold

[willow1]

there are a million more reasons i think you're town ftr but i'm gonna go thru the motions b4 i wait 4 the duel and vote accordingly

[willow1]

one thing that really interests me was that capitalizing on me/vfp and my/your history w/r/t my 1v1s is very straightforward to do as scum and i don't put much stock in it; however i'm not sure you'd immediately shift to trying to your own 1v1 and trying to bat w/ the bad faith argument against esooa though. i wanna call it town but putting myself in your shoes and thinking whether or not i'd make that followup move makes my head hurt

[willow1]

retti reading this game

[willow1]

at this point while i can hypothetically see you playing the best mechanically executed scumgame of ur life

im not gonna vote u so

VOTE: vfp

[willow1]

like ill be real asking those questions to begin with was dumb because you could have probably said anything that wasn't an outright scumslip and still won my vote so sorry for even making u type all that

[willow1]

UNVOTE:

oh yeah the one thing I actually needed to check

When specifically were you given setup info+what was the exact condition for gaining it

[willow1]

oh yeah and scum shot bear hugs for some fuckin reason even though they were an unclear that was wack

[willow1]

Wait nvm that was night Dunnstral died probably Sam

my memory fadin' obv scumslip

[willow1]

that is actually such a good point lmfao why would we not be making the kills

anyway i guess last housekeeping thing would be doublecheck the info w/r/t flea clear?

i know i need to check the info claim lining up but that's it

[willow1]

for a second i thought u fucked up thinking jjh was the second duel over andante

this game too long

going back that all checks out, i missed the bit about the compulsive use being a gambit too which explained another question i forgot i even had

if we lose we lose ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

also this man thought his info was useless when it literally gave multiple clears that confused me but IF IM WRONG IM WRONG LMAO

[willow1]

the highlight of this game is 100% sam shooting two extremely strong town PRs, one of whom was a UTR, and trying to commit seppuku to pay penance

only to have us go "oh no child, you will pay for your sins, you are now our compulsively townkilling minion, you will shoot plenty more town yet" with some off the wall mechanical EV optimization

[willow1]

idk last thing would be if flea potentially stole a mask from esooa but at that point we are deep, deep into crackpot territory

[willow1]

i'm down to get the show on the road, just waiting on maria

[willow1]

retti can you explain why i am significantly more town than vfp in your eyes

im curious about range here specifically, this is a rather remarkable scumgame if it's vfp

[willow1]

You're talking to someone who has the memory of a goldfish. I don't think anyone here is actually mechconf.

you are because retti is claiming informed. hypothetically before today you could have been scum together but that is now off the table.

there are some scenarios you could draw up w/ you scum but all of them are extremely outlandish

[willow1]

i strongly disgree with 2566 on every front and i should be tearing into you for it

¯\_(ツ)_/¯

VOTE: vfp

[willow1]

I just realized I could probably cheese the hell out of this by binge reading the manga and figuring out your flavor (do not claim it) on my own, since it appears to be AI this game lmao

[willow1]

ninja is a role modifier, meaning it would not be revealed on mask check. assuming sam was not trolling there is a poisoner.

mods on this site unfortunately like to give stupid red herrings so no ninja would not be surprising, but ninja-gladiator-poisoner retti would be wild.

keep in mind jjh & andante were caught performing the night kills. this heavily suggests there is no ninja.

[willow1]

scum had an even night RB and a rolecop+thief they had plenty of power

that said i don't really wanna argue mechanical specifics at this point

gonna read this stupid ass manga and move my vote if the gladiator character is scum lmfao

[willow1]

actually he day 1 claimed it when it was unknown how much flavor knowledge anyone had so uhhh

would be bold

also this shit is long

[willow1]

i'm 80 chapters in and this manga sucks and no sign of a gladiator so far

the things i do for mafia games............

[willow1]

up thru chapter 125 the explicitly information gathering mask man would be scum aligned though still no signs of any gladiator/poisoner flavor

retti???? RETTI???????

[willow1]

OH MY GOD IN CHAPTER 126 HE'S TRYING TO DUEL HER

RETTI??????? DARLING????

[willow1]

im mostly joking b/c still doesn't line up but im only 3/5ths of the way through so haha yeet

[willow1]

look i could read the mafia game or i could read the comic book the answer is obvious

[willow1]

ur words mean nothing old man, im a zen master, i read the bad ecchi manga and become enlightened through it and reach my own conclusions

[willow1]

at least now im confirmed town b/c oh god why would I read this as scum

[willow1]

BRUH

INFO GATHERING CHARACTER ALIGNED WITH THE BADDIES

IS NOW DUELING A SECOND MC LMAO

[willow1]

it's okay they didn't actually fight some other peeps jumped in to save the day

crisis averted!!!!!!!!!!

[willow1]

idk bro...semms like ur a lil scared.......................maybe if i keep reading it'll confirm u....................

[willow1]

i have literally read 180 chapters of this garbage since 4am send help

[willow1]

i

i don't know if i can keep doing this to myself

where is the fuckin poison in this thing? last three chapters?

[willow1]

at one point ein (dunnstral) saves a crying baby so i think my hunt 4 u is over

tell him ur welcome in teh postgame

[willow1]

220 chapters down, 39 to go

i'm in the final stretch

[willow1]

well i finished

and predictably that was completely fuckin useless b/c there were 2 town & 1 scum gladiator candidates

and nothing even close to resembling a poisoner

i want my day back

[willow1]

on the other hand the two Big Bad after aikawa were both maskless and the setup hasn't given masks to the maskless yet

also wtf are the inflatables (don't claim remember the modkill) i saw literally zero what, there was a super strong macho town dude tho

anyway i got what i deserved for trying to outguess the mod shes 2smart4me

[willow1]

this is a great summary of my day today



didi is retti, i am stu, mariar is angelica, and the pudding is 259 chapters that i just sat down and read in a single day like a complete fuckin degenerate

anyway let's hammer vfp imo

[willow1]

this whole time i was scared of getting pgo'd with my redundant checks and if i visited you i could have been mechanically cleared instead

what a game

[willow1]

wait lmao okay now I understand our discussion earlier about potentially blocking scum NK

uhhh if you have an unaccounted for visitor (it sounds like you got notice previous days? unsure?) they might be blocked and we get two chances which would be cool

[willow1]

i was not poisoned

there's no meaningful town info to gain via mechanics anymore. if you think it's retti I'd prefer we talk about it over no elimming and going down the wifom rabbit hole

[willow1]

and if u think it's me I def don't wanna no elim lol but am down 2 talk still

[willow1]

retti u have 2 hours to post the most iconically 1998-2002 pop/rock/r&b song before i vote u lmao

[willow1]

it's not quite who let the dogs out but it's onbrand so ill give u a pass

[willow1]

bro 45 minutes passed move on and get a life lmao

[willow1]

tbh im impressed we have all come around every other day, b/c god knows we were never gonna get prodded if we chose to afk to deadline

[willow1]

there's no further mechanical info to be gained from no elim

it's letting mafia pick who hammers while we hope whoever it is correctly interprets the wifom of being left alive

[willow1]

if you think there'd be meaningful info from you being left alive i would much rather us tackle the game holistically rn or discuss your concerns about retti more frankly because i think the wifom kill should be one of the last things to decide the game on

i will 100% instantly vote vfp tomorrow if alive so there is nothing to be gained fmpov by no elimming

[willow1]

it wouldn't shock me to my core if he was scum with the reaction to me/vfp today

at no point have i been like "damn my fundamental worldview depends on retti being town he has sold me completely" but his play both mechanically & qualitatively would have been extremely sharp, sharp to the point where i find it very unlikely it's him, and sometimes you just have to give props if it is.

[willow1]

<3