Open 810 | Aliensitter Needed! | Mafia wins

[Bingle]

I'd twirl my hair, but it's not long enough.

[Bingle]

that's quitter's talk

i had an idle thought earlier that nm's decisions (push scum get out scum) felt towny when i read them upon joining the game but with mo having the most awkward pivot on the world onto him + not realizing that he like, was in a position where he had to vote nm for because they were 100% at odds i don't know if i should go back and reconsider if the pushes were just buses. that's for tomorrow though.

Lowkey hoping something takes the evaluating out of my hands and I can skip to the arguing or dead thread, tbh.

[Bingle]

Unlikely to happen doesn’t mean I can’t hope, Mena.

[Bingle]

This day really should have ended like 48-72 hours ago

how ironic that ur buddy pushes the adgenda of me wanting to flip them so bad is scum but look at u

I agree that it's ironic that I'm pushing the person who is confscum to me.

Also, I think it's ironic when it rains on your wedding day or you get a free ride when you've already paid.

[Bingle]

Y, will you be able to hammer while vla?

[Bingle]

Just making sure we’re not risking Mena/mo or nm/no running out the deadline with your absence.

[Bingle]

again what r u on about???

In the case that Y is town and couldn't be around at deadline to hammer, scum could force a no lim by simply not voting before deadline, which would result in a town loss. Given that you're confirmed scum to me, the worlds in which that is possible are the combined worlds of Mena/you and N_M/you. There is no mechanical clear on either, so technically they are worlds on the table and I will evaluate them tomorrow if I am still alive and not handed a mechanical guilty, like say flailing scum leaving a vote on me and confirming themselves.

As scum without you, I can just STFU and not bring that up and then if Y doesn't remember to check for hammer before deadline simply win by never moving my vote off of the person who is literal confscum to me. I as scum with you could have been sounding out Y's absence to see the viability of unvoting off of the wagon near deadline, but that's a very high risk low reward play and also presumes us as a scumteam which not only do we both know is not the case but it's pretty laughable from the evolution of the thread.

[Bingle]

Are you arguing it's impossible for you and Mena to be scum because you and mena have been online at the same time? Because you've never been in a position where a scumpartner could hammer in this XLO. You've always been a voting party or a party being voted.

You, Mo, are confirmed scum to me. Theoretically, disregarding all other factors, any of Y/Mena/N_M could be scum with you. This is empirical truth, and saying it's anything else is simply arguing in bad faith. It doesn't matter if you type 1000 words or 50000 words, you can't change that obvious truth. Your attempts at twisting my words and pushing your narrative aren't doing you any favors and are in fact just boring.

Also, for the record, I was townreading you in spite of your play being intrinsically based on pair interactions, not because of it. Preflip associations are garbage, especially on D1. Catching 1 scum is difficult. Assuming yourself to be right and then using that to set up a chain of eliminations is awful. There's a reason that even while I was townreading you your reads had almost no value in my eyes.

[Bingle]

hard

It's really not, but :shrug:.

[Bingle]

"catching 1 scum is difficult" you act like you even caught drap as scum. you didn't hop on the bw until nm showed up. you keep saying how my play was awful, but weren't you sheeping me on day 3 or 2? also this is a bad rxn -- scum quote -- that last 2 bit of sentences there.

D1, where Drap was my second strongest scumread and despite being off wagon I was the only one who actually cased him iirc.
D2, where I was largely undecided and lurky and hammered a wagon that had 3/5 composition of townreads (Yes, you were one of them, congratulations!) based on the lack of resistance to a Drap wagon and an absentee Pine. Notably, you were the entire resistance to a Drap wagon.
D3, where I instigated a No Lim (correctly) that you were opposed to and have been pushing me about all day.

Yes, your narrative is definitely based in truth.

[Bingle]

wait mena i have a question, from your pov, do you think there is anyway it could be y and bingle/nm?

No. It literally cannot be.

The scum team is either you and anyone or specifically me and N_M. Mechanically.

[Bingle]

if it's mo, why does it feel so much like it's bingle and NM?

It doesn't feel like it's Bingle/N_M, and you're being silly.

Look at mo's narrative today and compare it to the things that have actually happened and realize that literally none of that matches.

[Bingle]

You look so partnered with NM lmao

pics?

[Bingle]

Mena, if I'm scum with N_M, why do I draw attention to the implications of Y going V/LA past the deadline? I could maybe see an argument there if I was partnered with Mo, looking for the towncred tomorrow. Why do I undermine my position in the 1v1 by not explicitly town reading you and Y and just throwing N_M under the bus when it probably just wins me the game with a Mo lim tomorrow?

Thinking me and N_M are paired is incredibly surface level, and you know my scum play is anything but.

[Bingle]

Whats mo’s narrative and why is it wrong?

For example, that whole part where he was saying that he only voted me because I voted him when the truth was the literal opposite. Or the accusation that I sheeped him on D2/3 when we were diametrically opposed on D3 and my "sheep" on D2 was:

Why for the love of Christ did you hammer Johnny there bingle

Combination of gamestate scumread on Pine and trust in N_M/Pooky. Also I was bored.

Also, I never pushed drapion D1 despite this being the bottom two names of my first readslist:

ProfessorDrapion
Gypyx

As to why people are scumreading Prof:

His entrance sounded forced, and his immediate justification for it makes me think he's too worried about how he's coming across. 19 is a bit performative and I don't particularly like the way he danced around my wagon. This was less of a big deal when I thought he was a true newbie, but being an alt makes it less likely to simply be jitters.

His fluff/content ratio is actually pretty good, but the content he does have is very political. Sheeping me and asking for my other reads is a very safe move, even if I'm right on Gypyx. 103 shows an effort=town read for both me and Mena. VFP/T3/Gypyx feel mostly like fluff reads. It feels more like a readslist because he thought I expected him to have reads at that point in the game than a genuine reads list. I also would have expected a natural thought process to put the very similar reads of me and Mena adjacent to each other, rather than as bookends to the weaker, low content reads.

It's been mentioned that 113 is a pretty awful take. (A50 calling VFP's post a scumclaim is incredibly nonintuitive and I'd expect anyone without extensive A50 experience to look at that and go "What are you smoking old man?" not "Oh, yeah, 3 townreads in RVS is a scumclaim.") This suggests to me that Prof had absolutely no paranoia about A50's comment, which shows a distinct lack of town perspective in that he wasn't trying to figure out A50's alignment.

128 is a defense by way of pedantry (often scum). It's not "I'm not scummy and here's why" it's "You shouldn't think I'm scummy for that specific reason."

teal deer: He's playing a very political game, and I don't think his solving is genuine.

Which was tipped Luke over into voting Drap in the first place.

Why the fuck would I bus Drap from off wagon in order to receive none of the towncred?

[Bingle]

its up to you mena, i suggest you iso and look at bingle's recent scumgames and tell me the similarities. you will see a common theme (his scumtell), bonus points to u if u catch it

Also, in what fucking universe is this a townpost? Especially at deadline in XLO?

"Hey, I have a meta tell against the person I know is confscum and I'm going to hint at it and not actually tell you what it is but you can go find it and I'll give you a big old gold star!"

Fucking LOL.

[Bingle]

Conf not scum with Mo.

[Bingle]

Not hammering here would be literally gamethrowing and thus against site rules.

I don't break site rules.

I'm either scum with specifically N_M or town.

[Bingle]

I'm considering hammering anyway, though, because I won't be around to hammer at deadline.

[Bingle]

How sure are you on Mena town?

[Bingle]

My only hesitance is him not seeing mo scum.

I'm pretty sure Gypyx/Mo/Drap isn't S/S/S so I'm pretty sold on you.

Maybe it is just N_M/Mo? That explains Mo's breakdown today better than anything else.

Fuckit.

VOTE: N_M

At least I don't have to reevaluate anything if I wake up tomorrow.

[Bingle]

Honestly that kinda sounds like I fucked up.

[Bingle]

Well shit.

[Bingle]

Once N_M had left his vote on Mo for a significant amount of time and Mo had left his vote on me for a significant amount of time it was confirmed that there was 1 scum in Mo/N_M and one scum in Mo/me.

Mo confirmed himself as scum to me.

I don't think I could have gotten Mena to reevaluate on you, so you probably just won the moment you repped in tho, tbh.

Mena has major paranoia wrt me.

[Bingle]

Mena actually had very little to do with it, FWIW, other than pointing it out.

[Bingle]

Town:

Dannflor
T3
PookyTheMagicalBear
Almost50

Needs more content before being arbitrarily shuffled into a pile:

GrandpaMo
ManWithNoName
Pine

Scum:

Lukewarm
VFP
Menalque
ProfessorDrapion
Gypyx

Yes. All nine of those are genuine reads with genuine reasoning. I'm not going to bother explaining most of them at the moment, and they're loosely ordered based on how accurate my gut says they might be.

[Bingle]

i actually don't know if there was a chance in there to hammer someone that i missed, i should check

There wasn't. Mena fucked that up actually, and I didn't catch it until I knew pointing it out would be suicide.

[Bingle]

I mean

it can't be

me/ydra
me/NM
me/bingle
ydra/bingle
ydra/NM

atp right? all those teams have had plenty of time to hammer

so the only teams left are

me/mo
bingle/NM
mo/NM

wait is ydra just cleared then lmao

she could have hammered bingle with me or NM

could've hammered mo with bingle or me

Mena never considered you and mo.

Luke, don't post until the mod calls the game.

[Bingle]

This game feels sort of like a case lesson in why ability to look town is often much greater utility than having good reads

I disagree very much that I didn’t look town Mena. As evidenced by the literally every other player townreading me.

[Bingle]

Pooky, A50, Luke, NM.

Like, literally every NK after Dann was strong tr-ing me.

[Bingle]

luke, don't post please!! <3 (the game's technically over but it's a courtesy thing :3)

Sorry for this - this was literally my first game where I died before endgame, so I did not know

It’s one of the rewards of modding, the grand reveal at the end. More importantly, you don’t always know that a game is actually over. Y could have been town trolling me. Lend could have given fake spoilers to keep the dead thread entertaining. Etc.

Wasn’t a big deal here, but as a rule never post in a game thread you’ve died in before the mod explicitly declares a winner, because if the game continues due to something you didn’t know you’ve accidentally cheated, one way or another.

[Bingle]

Also, mo, as an aside, you should probably work on both being more concise and not including a quote in everything you post. Your style helped you as mafia here, but it also made you very unconvincing. No one was engaging your reads because they were literally quotestriping and no one ever wants to deal with that.

[Bingle]

Maybe I'm being unfair then, but there were several specific issues which I think I already laid out, but basically -- your read on me D1, your disappearance after pressing for the scumflip on D1, the fact that you felt to me far too confident on both me and on NM, the fact that you hadn't been killed, the fact you and NM felt very in sync on final day which reminded me very strongly of this game where I ruled out the scumteam precisely because they were weirdly in sync and I thought that they wouldn't be so obvious (+ that if it was them then with their already being in sync they'd just push someone instead of waiting) -- that prevented me from getting to a point where I could trust in that read.

The final day you thing wasn’t a townread, it was a if Mena is scum I lose to Mena/Y deciding they’re a masonry thing, which I think I was pretty open about. Apparently I read too far into it, but I didn’t see a world where scum in the two of you lost. I townread NM hard off of effort because I’ve never seen scum nm effort anywhere near this hard and the only counter argument that wasn’t “I don’t think you’re right” came after mo was confscum to me and I didn’t have to reevaluate. I still haven’t read that game you linked, btw.

And of course me and nm were in sync on the final day, we were both pushing a player whose alignment was confirmed to us.

I’m not saying I was blameless in the loss, lack of communication goes both ways, but I do think that your paranoia about my scum game made it so you didn’t really try to dig deep into what mo was telling you I was doing when most of it was blatantly false. You heard Bingle is masterminding and thought yeah that makes sense instead of actually looking to see if I was masterminding anything.

I don’t have hard feelings over the loss, btw, and it was on me as well (I was the game losing hammer, after all) I’m just hoping that in the future you put a little more thought into whether I actually make sense as scum or if it’s just that I have a decent scum game and so my being alive is scummy.

Also, pooky, this game aside I’m 100% not the player to just blatantly sheep. I don’t operate well in those circumstances and my read accuracy as town is very hit and miss, jsyk.

[Bingle]

i’d be interested to hear your thoughts on the setup in general.

more or less balanced but maybe a little too swingy in it's current iteration. maybe just make the lovers masons or neighbours or something, this going to mountainous like that with a de facto useless third PR shot the difficulty up considerably. having had one of them for an extra night would maybe have helped

Agree that it’s balanced, but I don’t think either swing mitigation technique would work. Making the lovers masons makes this town side hard, and neighbors in an open ARE masons.

Scum deserved this win and it was 100% a fair game.

I’m not going to put it forward for approved or featured status because the game is swingy and a bit niche, but it’s a fine setup as is.

[Bingle]

one small change i'd maybe make is making it so that the psychologist can still get a positive on a cowardly mafioso, even if they haven't gained the ability to kill yet. but that would probably make the setup townsided and even more swingy

In a different meta? Absolutely would endorse this change. With the current ms trend of most people having decent-good town games and worse scumgames, scum needs every advantage they can get.

[Bingle]

The Psychologist feels a bit redundant, maybe a 2 shot Neapolitan

In a different meta? Absolutely would endorse this change. With the current ms trend of most people having decent-good town games and worse scumgames, scum needs every advantage they can get.

Neap is too much power for town. Hard innos are actually better for town than hard guilties in this setup, given the number of conftown via role that already exist.

[Bingle]

Just look at my stats for 2021 in my sig. I'm soooo proud of my own statistics

Glad I could be of service.

[Bingle]

i knew bingle or mena would have flipped at some point. mena's paranoia caused bingle to just impatiently pair me and nm.

It was deadline and not impatience. I waited until I literally would not be able to post again during the dayphase.

[Bingle]

Oh he would’ve, as proven by him posting 2 hours after my hammer. But if Mena was scum with you Mena coming back ended the game in a scum win. If y was scum with you Mena coming back resulted in Mena having to make the exact judgment I made, and I thought it more likely he’d choose to vote nm than you. And if nm was scum with you me hammering put me in a slightly better position the next day.

I absolutely made the call, and the wrong one, but I didn’t do it out of impatience. Don’t sell your teams play short. You left just enough room for me to doubt that NM was town. You didn’t win to someone just getting bored and wanting the game over with.