Townstumps Mafia (Endgame)

[Gamma Emerald]

You can treeust in me

[Gamma Emerald]

Apparently the stump needs to come up with town power roles too? Should we discuss that now?

A role.

I'm thinking either weak hider or bulletproof.

Weak Hider is better than cop, but a little trickier to play.

Bulletproof is usually a scummy claim to make, but if claimed on D1 in an open game it gives us confirmed town that mafia can't touch.

I'm 100% picking bodyguard if I'm stump
up to you to tell if this is serious

[Gamma Emerald]

yeah masons would probably just muddy things up
but idk if I particularly care for NK15 being a stump just yet

VOTE: Not_Mafia for the first stump btw

[Gamma Emerald]

the best point for making NM the stump is no quickhammers

[Gamma Emerald]

Just because you’re a troll doesn’t mean you’re bad at the game

[Gamma Emerald]

I didn’t know that was your MO.

[Gamma Emerald]

Now that I think about it I think I recall it happening once, in our first game together

[Gamma Emerald]

But like, you’re not as bad since at least you have a visible thought process
NM rarely explains his reads which makes it impossible to predict whether he’ll quickhammer or not

[Gamma Emerald]

I mean, I’m voting for NM rn lol

[Gamma Emerald]

I mean, I don't really care about rolling scum. I'm using the two stumps as players I don't wanna have to sort if I roll town, and players who I'd have to nk if I rolled scum.
I've already stated I will submit vigilante mason though.

~ Kori

As scum you absolutely wouldn't want a probable NK as a stump
at that point the only way to seal their lips is to convince them to leave the game

[Gamma Emerald]

you could just submit "mason vigilante" and "mason backup vigilante" kekw

[Gamma Emerald]

you could just submit "mason vigilante" and "mason backup vigilante" kekw

[Gamma Emerald]

keep in mind scum are gonna be given roles to counter whatever is submitted

[Gamma Emerald]

I can think of like, 2 counters for Weak Hider + Doctor, and there's probably more

[Gamma Emerald]

Alternative, we make town very low powered so scum becomes low powered

I'd definitely be down to play a near-vanilla game, I was in TM2018's white flag

[Gamma Emerald]

Alternative, we make town very low powered so scum becomes low powered

Mountainous?

mountainous is scumsided unless we get to like 17v3 or something
i know 11v2 is like a 39% winrate for town

~vv

that doesn't account for the stumps

[Gamma Emerald]

maybe??? on my homesite hypo cop is often suggested but rarely utilized
...mostly because it's in a phase where flips aren't complete, iirc, because of fears of flavor breaking games which are being handled the absolute wrong way

[Gamma Emerald]

but you already opted out of being a stump /j

[Gamma Emerald]

Stupid question... is "scumputer" an actual thing?

Followup: if it is... what exactly is it?

yeah, it's real, but I think DGB should explain it rather than me

also, the one person who I'd 100% never want to be a stump if I'm scum turned out to be a total scumbag and got banned!

[Gamma Emerald]

but you might get NKed :/

[Gamma Emerald]

So great, we basically have no guarantee of consistency in role function
I'm just gonna assume the worst on any role being useful now, keep myself from hoping

[Gamma Emerald]

y?

[Gamma Emerald]

VOTE: DrippingGoofball
I’d like to propose a third option

[Gamma Emerald]

I dunno if nsg classifies as hard to read? iirc there's been shortcuts but that might've just been because RC was able to in the past

[Gamma Emerald]

epitome is pronounced "e-pi-to-me"
anyone pronouncing it "e-pi-tome" is probably doing it for the funnies

[Gamma Emerald]

sometimes

[Gamma Emerald]

yeah this is kinda bland

[Gamma Emerald]

I don't wanna be scum against the Fey siblings tho, or really just have them SR when they're stumps

[Gamma Emerald]

Why Moongrass, nsg?

[Gamma Emerald]

Why Moongrass, nsg?

i think moon's a great player

If I can get details about this I’m probably willing to go with it

[Gamma Emerald]

Why Moongrass, nsg?

i think moon's a great player

If I can get details about this I’m probably willing to go with it

shrug

just had a game with moon where we were both on scum d1 and she correctly called out the partner before getting shot n1 (because of a power role, but still)

not sure how much moon even wants to be a stump this game but yeah

I’ll let moon speak before making my choice but if they’re okay with it, I’ll vote for them

[Gamma Emerald]

so NM be honest

if / when you're a stump, your very first post is going to be exiting the game, right

how could you call yourself a true troll if it wasn't

I think this is the best bet. I wouldn't expect the exit to be the first post, but an exit at some point would make town stump more powerful.

VOTE: NM

Does this mean you don’t want to be stumped?

[Gamma Emerald]

VOTE: not_mafia
Alrighty then.

[Gamma Emerald]

Thought i had an stroke reading that.
Also JJ’ Koba will probably make Nancy stop any bad tunneling so it’s an safe choice.
VOTE: Mia and Maya Fey

Problem is Koba is sometimes prone to tunneling themself

[Gamma Emerald]

UNVOTE:
I think I want to hammersit for now
If either of NM or the Fey sisters reach S-1 I’m voting them

[Gamma Emerald]

I kinda do it sometimes, but that doesn’t mean i’m good at it.

Same

[Gamma Emerald]

I like to think I can read Norway
Etymologies was an exception because he was SK playing his town meta

[Gamma Emerald]

why do people want NM? so they can bow out and give the power up to NSG right away?

On my part, it’s partly the fact both moongrass and nsg voted NM
that’s both the current stump and the person the current stump put in a good word for

[Gamma Emerald]

At least I can breathe easy knowing whatever fake PR claim happens, it’s from town

[Gamma Emerald]

Said post only applies to NM, and if he is stumped
It’s a joke about a kinda recent past game I played with him

[Gamma Emerald]

My bad, didn't mean to intrude on your private joke. Speaking of private jokes, where's A50 these days?

Hopefully not a potential replacement in this game?

Oof
My relationship with A50 is strained but this feels harsh

[Gamma Emerald]

Tbh I don’t wanna see masons not for any balance/gameplay reason, but that I think masons are kinda played out in stump games

[Gamma Emerald]

VOTE: norwegian
Not sure this is best but I’ll roll with this

[Gamma Emerald]

I'll choose VT just so yall focus on dayplay

The vibes on this post are disgusting.

[Gamma Emerald]

What’s crack-a-lackin’, homies?

Your entrance posts seem a little more proactive than what I thought would be normal for you NK15. That yawn in particular seemed like posting for the sake of posting. Am I wrong?

I think proactive is the wrong word, replace with simply active.

Time will probably tell on this, but I think NK15 is kinda an easy read as mafia, iirc he has an odd tendency to implode or do something super-scummy around end of Day 1

[Gamma Emerald]

Like, please do not at any point question decisions that the stumps may or may not have made with regards to power roles, as getting them to defend those choices is akin to rolefishing

This is a valid statement

[Gamma Emerald]

It makes sense with the stumps, we have 3 conftown voices

One of which can likely be Strongman killedeven with a doctor, if it exists.

Scum.

Like, please do not at any point question decisions that the stumps may or may not have made with regards to power roles, as getting them to defend those choices is akin to rolefishing

Town.

Moongrass have you played with mastina before?

[Gamma Emerald]

I like VOTE: NK15 better.

What's up with disparaging you for doing something with what little content there is though?

I'm not disagreeing with your push, I just want to get something out of NK15 first. House seems like an easy read, not particularly threatened by scum House.

Why lol

[Gamma Emerald]

I like VOTE: NK15 better.

What's up with disparaging you for doing something with what little content there is though?

How do you know I'm doing something as town?

Moongrass probtown

[Gamma Emerald]

VOTE: mastina
This is obvious scum. Serious vote.

Why, because this feels premature and misguided rn

[Gamma Emerald]

Like, please do not at any point question decisions that the stumps may or may not have made with regards to power roles, as getting them to defend those choices is akin to rolefishing

This is a valid statement

Considering it was about a role that was already outed, I kinda disagree on that.

Posts that I consider "proper play scolding" lean scum to me because it's an easy way to appear town without actually contributing to the game. That said, he changed my mind later on by actively contributing to the game.

I was gonna debate this but you actually have a point that I noticed when I started putting finger to keyboard on my thoughts, but it reinforces the idea that we shouldn’t be trying to outguess the stumps

[Gamma Emerald]

No, that's a town mastina readslist

Pretty inclined to believe this read
I believe jjh and mastina have a history where he actually can read her rather well

[Gamma Emerald]

VOTE: Mia and Maya Fey

hook line and sinker

Which head is this, I’m guessing Koba but I’m no good at parsing Nancy hydras for which head is which historically

[Gamma Emerald]

Are readlists usually produced this early for you mastina?

Yes, and I'm dead serious about this:

VOTE: Mia and Maya Fey

It's still possible that they are town for one simple reason. (A reason I'm not sharing right now.) But I actually legit think they're scum.

Sheep the opposite of what mastina reads us as btw ^^^^

:/

[Gamma Emerald]

i trust jjh on mastina more than i do anyone else in the game.

Just for the sake of full disclosure here; jjh is probably the best player here at reading me (Titus second best tho Titus has the tendency of OMGUSing me when I am suspicious of her which can dampen the accuracy there), buuuuuuuuuuuut, scumastina can and has pocketed jjh before. jjh and I usually have the dynamic of more or less assuming the other is town until given damn good reason to think otherwise, but even when giving sincere reads that aren't free passes, are naturally inclined to townread each other.

However, given that you are statistically more likely to be town than scum, statistically speaking, this "assume town until given damn good reason to otherwise, and if forced to give an actual non-assumed read, townreading them anyway" approach is disproportionately accurate since by the numbers we end up both town more often than not.

I'll just drop that scum think I'm an easy push in games because I am very aggressive and have an unorthodox playstyle.

It's very much not! I was looking forward to seeing the aggression from the playstyle.

The manifestation of how you are using the aggression is what leads me to believe you drew a red PM here.

So it's not the playstyle; it's what you are doing with said playstyle.

I feel happy that my meta that I practically pulled out of my underwear ended up essentially correct

[Gamma Emerald]

Not impressed by them but don’t think they’ve acted scummy just yet
Though maybe this feeling is exactly what scum!Koba feels like, I’d need to think it over (as well as read a past game to refresh my memory)

[Gamma Emerald]

I feel like 75% of my ability to read people comes from interacting with them
So like, if you’re concerned I haven’t expressed much of value, why not start a conversation?

[Gamma Emerald]

VOTE: House
I don’t think you really believe that.

[Gamma Emerald]

What’s crack-a-lackin’, homies?

Your entrance posts seem a little more proactive than what I thought would be normal for you NK15. That yawn in particular seemed like posting for the sake of posting. Am I wrong?

I think proactive is the wrong word, replace with simply active.

Time will probably tell on this, but I think NK15 is kinda an easy read as mafia, iirc he has an odd tendency to implode or do something super-scummy around end of Day 1

I like VOTE: NK15 better.

What's up with disparaging you for doing something with what little content there is though?

How do you know I'm doing something as town?

Moongrass probtown

VOTE: mastina
This is obvious scum. Serious vote.

Why, because this feels premature and misguided rn

I feel like anyone who cares to should be able to actually interact with these posts

[Gamma Emerald]

Then what do you care about? You seem more interested in complaining then establishing a real line of communication here.

[Gamma Emerald]

Btw I re-read the opening posts of Koba from the last game I could remember where I felt like I had correctly scumread them, the posting doesn't really resemble what I'm seeing here, so I'm probably just getting put off by their frustrations at the current situation

[Gamma Emerald]

And you ignore 2 examples I've already given in response to the question before you've even asked it.

well I didn't perceive it as an actual attempt at discussion
Anyway, to talk about those two things: I don't exactly see how you progressed to TRing jjh as you stated you had. As for your mastina opinion, I don't see a whole lot to say other than maybe "if you're not seeing what you're used to, but are also not seeing the behavior you contrasted it to as the play you would like to see less of, then how would you describe what you ARE seeing?" To clarify, you've said mastina isn't searching for motives, but when pressed about it you denied the idea that she was pigeon-holing posts as certain alignments (which honestly I would kinda describe her early play as that sort of thing these days). So, what does/did mastina seem to be doing?

[Gamma Emerald]

What about that seems bent? I just said I didn't see something as you said it happened.

[Gamma Emerald]

Nah, I'm not buying that for one simple reason.

Our first game together, you called me town out of nowhere when I was being wagoned and sold it. You're townread of me was based on a lack of scum notice in my incredibly scummy playstyle. You had zero history with me.

That's what so impressed me about your skill. It's very rare to find a player that hunts for motive instead of pigeon-holing actions as "scummy" or "towny".

I'm not seeing that here, and it makes me sad.

do you think that mastina has "pigeon-holed" you as being scummy or towny? she was pretty clear in the motivation behind her vote on you.

I never claimed nor implied mastina pigeon-holed anyone or anything.

Try again.

Is it wrong to conclude from this post that you didn't believe she was doing that? Or are you just rules-lawyering by saying you never said anything to indicate you felt she was doing that?

[Gamma Emerald]

Fwiw House I overstated my read on you for the sake of content production to get us out of RVS immediately

I had kinda sensed something was up with the quickness of it, and this explanation makes you solidly town imo

[Gamma Emerald]

I'm not saying you're rules-lawyering in terms of site rules, I mean it in the sense you didn't actually speak that thought out so while you felt that way, when asked a question that assumed it, you responded by challenging the assumption.
And again, if she's not doing that then what would you say she IS doing? I'm not looking for what you don't see from mastina, I'm looking for what you do see.

[Gamma Emerald]

Hey, I have characters in my novel who need to hear an interview about them, but they're complying with directions not to consume any media about their case. How do I force them to see it?

What?

This is a complete non-sequitur

[Gamma Emerald]

That's not an answer to the question. The more you try to evade this, the more comfortable I feel with my vote.
PEdit: I'm not asking about what you want to see, I'm asking about what you see RIGHT NOW.

[Gamma Emerald]

What I see right now is not what I'm looking for.

That's a negative statement about what you're seeing. If possible, express it as a positive.

[Gamma Emerald]

okay
To make things easier in the future, unless I'm personally motivated to do so, I'm not really into hunting down stuff that I'm told is self-evident (so when a hydra says one head should be clearly told from the other, that doesn't tend to work for me). So if you're trying to clue me into a post that already exists, be direct about it, don't play games and lead me around in circles.

anyway, to address the actual post, I feel like you are right to doubt the mastina scumread based on the meta being old, the play mastina is showing is pretty much par for the course these days, I'd say.

[Gamma Emerald]

I'll choose VT just so yall focus on dayplay

The vibes on this post are disgusting.

?????

I won’t, I want a good role and will be open to suggestions.

btw to go back to this, I felt like the response to being told "no masons" was to dive into a pissed-off mood and be like "okay in that case here's less town PRs for y'all, I'm keeping the toys in the toy chest"

[Gamma Emerald]

but obviously, that was the wrong impression

[Gamma Emerald]

I'm pretty sure stumps only had ability to submit roles, not pick who got what
feel free to tell me I'm wrong if there's something in the setup info I missed that covers that

[Gamma Emerald]

VOTE: Norwegian
Superior choice to NM and the Mia hydra.

Deceht choice but why “superior”?

Why is our hydra not a superior choice?
Titus and jjh can both tell you I can be extremely persuasive. @Mastina

I really don’t understand why people are selling us short.

Please don't put words in my mouth, particularly when my disagreement puts me in an awkward position

I haven't noticed you being persuasive in general to other people, and do not personally find you persuasive at all as I tend to focus on logic and your arguments frequently do not make any logical sense

Okay, I’ve been literally counting the minutes that I had to wait to respond to this garbage.

Did I or did I not lead an elim on scum!Bell? Yes Pooky made the case but it got rammed through because of ME! Ditto for Titus no fade but keep pushing this nonsense. I fucking dare you.

what game is this about?

[Gamma Emerald]

I'm sorry what? Wdym by "recognize"?

[Gamma Emerald]

So if you're trying to clue me into a post that already exists, be direct about it, don't play games and lead me around in circles.

I just don't think your question was genuine, since it was answered before you asked it.

I tend to miss the forest for the forest sometimes
(idk what that would mean in any way or form, I just think it potentially resembles the idea I'm aiming for)

[Gamma Emerald]

I'm sorry what? Wdym by "recognize"?

I've played you a few moons ago, mind the pun.

is that moons in the sense of months?

[Gamma Emerald]

So if you're trying to clue me into a post that already exists, be direct about it, don't play games and lead me around in circles.

I just don't think your question was genuine, since it was answered before you asked it.

I tend to miss the forest for the forest sometimes
(idk what that would mean in any way or form, I just think it potentially resembles the idea I'm aiming for)

Have you tried taking in fewer trees at a time?

I'm not that type of guy but I appreciate the joke

[Gamma Emerald]

I've listened to enough rap to know what you probably mean by "trees"

[Gamma Emerald]

VOTE: Mia and Maya Fey

VOTE: moongrass
Shame, i was hoping to get more out of you before you cracked from pressure. Seems you're a bundle of nerves.

One if not both moon/jjh of these is likely scum here. Shame we can’t vote for both.

I don't agree with those SRs rn

[Gamma Emerald]

I'm sorry what? Wdym by "recognize"?

I've played you a few moons ago, mind the pun.

is that moons in the sense of months?

The expression is a non specific one in terms of time. Generally it means a long time ago. I think it's been years and a different handle.

I don't want to spoil the fun of the hunt, but can you give me any vague clues as to who you might be?

[Gamma Emerald]

I've listened to enough rap to know what you probably mean by "trees"

See? There you go making assumptions again!

I was suggesting processing fewer posts at a time instead of taking in the whole thread at once.

Ah
how exactly would that work?

[Gamma Emerald]

fyi moon if I figure out who you are I won't out it unless you say it's okay
I had someone I used to play this type of game with a lot before they revealed themselves as a horrible person

[Gamma Emerald]

I've listened to enough rap to know what you probably mean by "trees"

See? There you go making assumptions again!

I was suggesting processing fewer posts at a time instead of taking in the whole thread at once.

Ah
how exactly would that work?

It's easy to feel the need to catch up when you're coming back to a ton of content, but maybe try reading half a dozen posts, take a few minutes to marinate in the content, and then move on to the next batch.

That's what I'll be doing when I get off work tomorrow.

That won't work when hammer is imminent, of course... but such is not really a concern at times like this.

That feels completely foreign to me, I'm not gonna lie
Like, if I'm taking time off while reading up it's usually because I'm doing something else, either mafia related or not. Typically my time to marinate on game events is when I'm not directly playing at the moment.

[Gamma Emerald]

fyi moon if I figure out who you are I won't out it unless you say it's okay
I had someone I used to play this type of game with a lot before they revealed themselves as a horrible person

Hey...!

IT WASN'T YOU
I didn't even realize you were on alts pretty much ever during that span
speaking of which will you go back to using those alts at some point, or are you abandoning them as days gone by? I kinda liked Grey

[Gamma Emerald]

I've listened to enough rap to know what you probably mean by "trees"

See? There you go making assumptions again!

I was suggesting processing fewer posts at a time instead of taking in the whole thread at once.

Ah
how exactly would that work?

It's easy to feel the need to catch up when you're coming back to a ton of content, but maybe try reading half a dozen posts, take a few minutes to marinate in the content, and then move on to the next batch.

That's what I'll be doing when I get off work tomorrow.

That won't work when hammer is imminent, of course... but such is not really a concern at times like this.

That feels completely foreign to me, I'm not gonna lie
Like, if I'm taking time off while reading up it's usually because I'm doing something else, either mafia related or not. Typically my time to marinate on game events is when I'm not directly playing at the moment.

But can you see how rushing through makes it possible to miss stuff?

Yeah

[Gamma Emerald]

I did end up managing to read Koba once, idk what the tell was that I was really using atp though

[Gamma Emerald]

...........

[Gamma Emerald]

I'd probably need to see more from FMFT before voting based on that
like, it's a jarring transition but not obvscum yet

[Gamma Emerald]

i hav teh zuipperpips

[Gamma Emerald]

bad choice of words then
Point is, I want more info before voting

[Gamma Emerald]

bad choice of words then
Point is, I want more info before voting

What do you think of jjh, moon, Mastina, NK15?

jjh seems like town so far, as does moon
mastina I could see being scum because of your point about how she wouldn't vote you before you posted, but I also value jjh's read
NK15 I had to look over, and he literally has two posts following game start, neither really amounting to much.

Why'd you toss NK15 into that group anyway?

[Gamma Emerald]

Also we shouldn’t have any early eliminations since scum can still choose and pick their toys to play with for a while so let’s give them less info by vibing a bit more before things get heated. That’s my opinion.

@Moon is this the only reason you unvoted us? Because if you’re actually town here then the 1v1 thing is just going to help scum and I don’t even have a clue what 1v2 even means.

1v2 because you have two heads.

I unvoted because of NSG and Norwegian thinking it's a better idea to wait and see.

Jsyk, this isn’t really giving me a lot of confidence in you town. There is no way everyone who voted us is town and I think you’re possibly trying to set us up for a miselim.

Only reason I’m not voting you is TGP.

What’s TheGoldenParadox got to do with this?

[Gamma Emerald]

I guess we could just assume they're really bad scum?

That’s very possible.

Yeah

[Gamma Emerald]

Stop the spam

bruh

[Gamma Emerald]

3 okay thank you. Do I dare town bin NM for his scumteam of 4.

This is probably not quite right as a reason to TR someone but I’ve scumread some for their number of scumreads in the past
Keep in mind that was a multiball scenario as well, so really I think I just wanna talk about this and determine its validity

[Gamma Emerald]

This is where I'm at right now:

DrippingGoofball
Moongrass
mastina
Gamma Emerald
Titus

House
Free Money Free Tea

Not_Mafia
cyrus62
nomnomnom
Not Known 15

Mia and Maya Fey

@free money yes but look at this we know dgb is town and yet he has him in the scum part here

what even

[Gamma Emerald]

I’ve only seen a few cyrus posts but he already seems to be reading things in bad faith

[Gamma Emerald]

just a question can we mistakenly have stump scum?

VOTE: cyrus62
Unless he somehow never developed past being a noob, I have trouble seeing shit like this as anything but scum

[Gamma Emerald]

@Koba, I’m still not sure about Tea but I’m far less sus in general on slots who have no meta on me, since my last game where I was voted by almost every town play bar one - none who had any meta on me but I’ve hated every single one of jjh’s posting in response to my posting and I won’t unvote him as long as I’m alive in this game.

He is pretending that it’s somehow scummy for me to think he tryhards as scum, only difference was in VG he was smart enough to try to pocket me. I am playing nothing remotely similarly to Animals uPick and I don’t believe for one second that that take is genuine.

Do y’all not have a hydra PT or a discord chat or smth?

[Gamma Emerald]

ok lets try it this way do a meta dive on me and tell me what you find good luck btw as i have a game with over 215 pages under my belt.

From my experience this resembles your one scum game In aware of but even more scummy

[Gamma Emerald]

You're not!
There's one of two worlds.
EITHER:
1: You're town in which case you're not a D1 miselim candidate because you'll obvtown and become a mandatory nightkill,
OR:
2: You're scum in which case you can't be a miselim.

Yikes :grimace:

[Gamma Emerald]

You're not!
There's one of two worlds.
EITHER:
1: You're town in which case you're not a D1 miselim candidate because you'll obvtown and become a mandatory nightkill,
OR:
2: You're scum in which case you can't be a miselim.

Yikes :grimace:

Take your words.

Apply them to your post.

Granted I haven't been here for years, but I still remember mastina saying stuff like that.

Honestly yeah but it still feels way too fucking smarmy

[Gamma Emerald]

If you want to talk meta Nancy. Your town meta laughs at people pushing you and reduces them down to nothing. This whimpering play so far doesn't reflect your town confidence at all.

[Gamma Emerald]

ps im thinking of voting mia due to fun sucking

Being run up is so much fun.

oh please i was ran up so fast my very 1st game here that i wanted to quit. hell i didnt even know how to vote so it happens relax its early and how many votes are on you any way move on try to scum hunt. ps your not my sr

Who are your SRs then?

[Gamma Emerald]

Cyrus is this your first "large" game? Or first game out of newbie?

He has non-newbie game experience

[Gamma Emerald]

FMFT & cyrus are the two I'm comfortable voting at this point.

FMFT, okay, but why Cyrus?

FMFT seems to be a very evasive in giving actual reasons for their scumreads.

I ISO'ed Cyrus and didn't find anything suspicious.

FMFT is voting with you - why are you shading them?

I would think you would know why? Scum can bus, is the most immediate answer.

[Gamma Emerald]

If you want to talk meta Nancy. Your town meta laughs at people pushing you and reduces them down to nothing. This whimpering play so far doesn't reflect your town confidence at all.

I'm curious to know your thoughts on this post.

@gamma

I think you have a point, but like, it’s not a good idea to speak of it because that’s something that whenever I’ve broached it with her, has never ended well.

[Gamma Emerald]

Cyrus is giving me town vibes still.

Wdym still

[Gamma Emerald]

ps im thinking of voting mia due to fun sucking

Being run up is so much fun.

oh please i was ran up so fast my very 1st game here that i wanted to quit. hell i didnt even know how to vote so it happens relax its early and how many votes are on you any way move on try to scum hunt. ps your not my sr

Who are your SRs then?

high scum read mastina who hasn't even defended her self and slight scum read jh

Yeah this just feels like scum who didn’t actually learn the material and used a cheat sheet

[Gamma Emerald]

Cyrus is giving me town vibes still.

Wdym still

I'm still waiting for a response from you on a post a few pages back.

Which one

[Gamma Emerald]

i do recall being fooled by GE before on one game. only game i have lost as town i think was to GE i think could be mistaken.

I checked, my only scumgame with you in it was one I lost

[Gamma Emerald]

The point was to apply some pressure, but that's ok. I think I'm getting caught in my own web and will regroup.

VOTE: Nomnom

Caught in your own web

how

?

[Gamma Emerald]

If you want to talk meta Nancy. Your town meta laughs at people pushing you and reduces them down to nothing. This whimpering play so far doesn't reflect your town confidence at all.

I'm curious to know your thoughts on this post.

@gamma

Already answered it

[Gamma Emerald]

Yeah it feels like the converse of LAMIST, essentially “hey look I’m definitely NOT scum”

[Gamma Emerald]

Yeah it feels like the converse of LAMIST, essentially “hey look I’m definitely NOT scum”

I'm torn.

Don't take this personally... I think you're a cool dude, and this is happening because it's MY wiring that's screwy... but every time you agree with me in this game, it makes me question my conclusion and want to vote you.

It's rather annoying.

I think the same thing happened in mini 1831? So at the very least I think you having that feeling is potentially town-indicative. Don’t know how much your style might have changed since then

[Gamma Emerald]

1830 not 1831

[Gamma Emerald]

gosh you guys post way too much

reads as of page 40:
{nsg, norwee, dgb}
{jjh}
{mastina, moon, nancy, NM}
{gamma}
{nk15, FMFT, cyrus, titus, house} - null
{nom}

keep in mind this is a relative list not an absolute one

Talk about the nom read?

[Gamma Emerald]

Why am I not surprised by the NK vote? Gamma next right.

I’m guessing your suggesting I’m going to vote you here. I’ve considered it but I kinda want someone to talk over the thing I initially townread you for and judge whether it was a valid read

[Gamma Emerald]

So you think the hydra is town now?

The tone of this question doesn’t feel like it’s good faith

[Gamma Emerald]

So you think the hydra is town now?

The tone of this question doesn’t feel like it’s good faith

I'm actually genuinely curious

Okay then

[Gamma Emerald]

Will be here either in a couple hours or sometime tomorrow, but I’ve been busy with college work + other hobbies

[Gamma Emerald]

I'll probably read a little bit soon, but for now I'd like if someone would quickly explain what's scummy about nk15 aorn

[Gamma Emerald]

cyrus do you think you could actually bother writing about a third grade level
I can't tell what you're saying half the time because your words do not parse

[Gamma Emerald]

thank you, that helps actually
why is your PoE down to those slots?

[Gamma Emerald]

Like why the flying feck would I even bring up a web? And then what? I get Gamma my scumbuddy to please question it so I can present my 7D chessboard to the game so that I can finally be townread?

I know I'm going on about it a bit but like, please stop it.

Annoying that you can't call DGB scum for that push, isn't it?

ngl that reeks of the exact scum habit I've diagnosed both here and on my homesite where they have to resort to alternate ways of discrediting a push if it's from conftown

[Gamma Emerald]

Hydra is towntelling VOTE: mastina

could we get even an ounce of progression from you regarding these reads?

[Gamma Emerald]

cyrus locktown.

I want him to re-explain his jjh read from the top, but I am liking a bit of what he's posting

[Gamma Emerald]

1:

MOD: V/LA until Sunday

. I got my second vaccine shot today; there's a high chance I get knocked out of commission for circa 48 hours. And then I have personal stuff circa Thursday/Friday. And Saturday is my day off. I won't be not posting but I might not be able to post as much and comment on as much as I want to.

MOD: As a reminder, this is a thing, especially today.

I have a rather accelerated heart rate right now as one of my symptoms from the second Moderna shot. It's thankfully not a medical emergency...but it IS something that anxiety would exemplify.

And games of mafia are...not kind on the heart, to say the least.

So I gotta take today off at minimum.

that sounds concerning, my second shot put me on my ass for like two days but I don't remember any elevated heart rate

[Gamma Emerald]

My theory is that mastina is NOT, in fact, dim enough to echo her scumbuddy immediately after he posts.

what if that's what they are hoping for

If she wanted to WIFOM, she wouldn't be so elementary about it.

That's what she wants you to think...

or does she

???

sigh

my determination is there'd probably be some sign of layering if WIFOM was the intent, so either it's scum making a level 0 play or (my conclusion) they're town together

[Gamma Emerald]

Yeah, no thanks. So did Nancy put you up to this?

I think Moon stole Titus’ moonlogic.

You were doing much better with the whimpering crap. You should probably stick to that.

I had thought to make a moonlogic comment about moongrass somewhere previously, good to know I probably wasn't alone

[Gamma Emerald]

Something's blocking my ability to read and make connections this game. It might be my work but I am wholly dissatisfied with my ability to generate reads here. I feel cyrus and gamma are town but everyone else is meh.

Can someone ask me a question about their theory in a concise post?

Why would people ask you questions about their own theories, unless they were just running them by you?

[Gamma Emerald]

Gamma and House would you mind discussing your hesitation around the wagon on the hydra when it first started up? Like was there a post from the start that gave you the impression the push from me and JJH was bad?

I know nancy definitely doesn't respond well to pressure, especially when unwarranted
I believe I can point out a few examples of what I'm talking about when it comes to town!Nancy
pretty much if you don't want town!nancy to shut you out, you need a damn good reason to SR her if you feel that way
I have also seen the activity line pushed on nancy early in games before, even when nancy is scum its not actually a real reason to push her, and it gives her a valid reason to be upset at scumreads on her
basically I wanted to give nancy either enough leash to hang herself or room to prove herself depending on her alignment.

[Gamma Emerald]

DrippingGoofball
Gamma Emerald
cyrus62
jjh927
mastina
House
Mia and Maya Fey
Not_Mafia
nomnomnom
Titus
Free Money Free Tea
Not Known 15

okay how the hell did I jump to the top of your readlist?

[Gamma Emerald]

this is a sort of curious wagon composition we have going on right now.

anyone have any thoughts on it? i have a few of my own, but i'm interested to hear other people's first

One thing I just noticed is there's no stump votes, which imo are a critical part of the Versus series and should be a thing here doubly so given we have 2 town stumps

[Gamma Emerald]

I disagree that valuable wagon analysis is only possible under imminent threat of death. I think there are plenty of games with plenty of counterexamples that contradict that idea.

Link to a game where elimination was basically forbidden and VCA was useful, please?

I could probably proffer an explanation but unless this continues being an issue I won't bother

[Gamma Emerald]

However, it doesn't take a genius to correctly townread me when I've put so much content into the game, and people who just ignore that are inherently more likely to be scum

As an aside, take a look at where I am on NSG's readlist

content doesn't mean crap here . i play the way i do so no one can till if im scum or town and stump or not any one can be fooled .

you play to be unreadable? that's pretty amateur imo

[Gamma Emerald]

okay how the hell did I jump to the top of your readlist?

You, jjh and Cyrus are players I'm most convinced are town. I reread your ISO and house's after reevaluating my read on the hydra, because I remembered you both hesitating on the Nancy wagon. I also did a quick mod ISO and your voting pattern is least likely to come from scum.

explain the other two TRs, then? They feel quite interesting in this gamestate

[Gamma Emerald]

I don’t really see anything scummy about Cyrus’s play here.

Single question

Do you think he has really made an effort to place me and believes the arguments he is making?

could you do less crying and more scum hunting gee . its day 1 ofc i havent done much with you thire is no meat to your content all you do is cry meta or state the stump is on my side. as i told you i wanted a reaction i also stated , that i could be completely wrong about you since your the only one to defend your self.

what do you call what jjh was doing before you started pushing him?

[Gamma Emerald]

Wow. It's like that then.

The gloves are out sir and neither one is named mercy.

Btw I'm down to hammer, just when I'm ready. But you can fall all the way back down for pulling that shade on me.

that's just how House plays. He is very mercurial about his reads, in my experience.

[Gamma Emerald]

This is awesome!

Thanks for reinforcing my read.

As long as you felt like you were snowing me, I was town. Anyone who reads our interactions will see that.

yeah, moongrass seems to be altering reads at convenience rather than displaying a real progression
VOTE: moongrass

[Gamma Emerald]

Moon's behavior since the E-1 vote reeks of scum scrambling to save a buddy.

I can see it

[Gamma Emerald]

This is the only game I've ever played with house in it. Ive liked playing with house so I'm disappointed if he is scum, it's a dig at the betrayal. I guess this wasn't about other players hahaha.

why was it a "betrayal"?

[Gamma Emerald]

Well you can either complain about me posting about you and NK, or you can answer my question about your sudden change of heart towards Gamma. How about that?

Go buzz someone else.

why the prickly reaction to someone else asking about your read on me, but you gave me an answer without hesitation?

[Gamma Emerald]

House also said I jumped off NK because he would flip town. Gamma, you're picking a choosing house's posts to confirm your bad read.

Okay, that's on him for giving two contradictory statements. I didn't say I felt he was right about that part, did I?

[Gamma Emerald]

Okay, so I go in your ISO and I see this:

I am the opposite

Gamma looks very much town

Yeah. A lot of people equivocation activity with town and he flew in and popped out a lot of posts at one time... without actually giving us anything to chew on.

There's no meat on all those bones.

While I disagree with House's assessment, I think both he and gamma are town.

Same.

I'm thinking it's nom^3/gamma/NK15.

Why am I not surprised by the NK vote? Gamma next right.

Titus could you talk more about your townread on Gamma?

It's a tonal townread mostly. He doesn't seem to back down when pushed or FoSed. He's clear and understandable too.

I'm seeing what you're seeing but not sure how being calm and clear comes exclusively from town Gamma.

Do you think Gamma is town house?

I think he's town actually. I'm going to find it hard to sort nom, NK read doesn't change.

To me there's like massive leaps of logic in there.
The only thing in your ISO I can see that could have changed your initial gamma TR to a SR when you posted your solve is you insisting that Gamma answers a question of yours and him not doing so, but I don't like making assumptions because that was never clarified. Which is why I asked you back then to clarify that read. And also why I am asking you to clarify it now.

Looking at these posts and thinking about how moongrass described their read on me, I kinda think moongrass/titus could be teamed, and titus tried to get moongrass to pocket me rather than push me?

[Gamma Emerald]

House also said I jumped off NK because he would flip town. Gamma, you're picking a choosing house's posts to confirm your bad read.

Okay, that's on him for giving two contradictory statements. I didn't say I felt he was right about that part, did I?

No and that's why I'm saying you're picking which one to agree with in a biased way. It's like if I gave evidence for someone being both innocent and guilty and then the jury picked which one to choose rather than see the evidence is from an unreliable source.

As I see it, a viable explanation for House's two thought processes was that he was undecided on which one made more sense. And I don't see how this equates to the example you gave. Both conclusions he gave point to you being scum, they just sort NK15 differently

[Gamma Emerald]

I changed my reads and refused to answer someone who has never approached me in good faith. But your version sounds better, go with that.

honestly my issue isn't just that you townread me, it's that I went straight to the top of your TRs. Why did you decide to discard your reasons for scumreading me ENTIRELY?

[Gamma Emerald]

I changed my reads and refused to answer someone who has never approached me in good faith. But your version sounds better, go with that.

honestly my issue isn't just that you townread me, it's that I went straight to the top of your TRs. Why did you decide to discard your reasons for scumreading me ENTIRELY?

Then reread the list and put yourself 4th or something. Sorry I'm most confident about you.

Unless you directly answer that question my concerns won't be displaced. You can't just retroactively adjust the list at this point, the cat's out of the bag.

[Gamma Emerald]

@fmft i cught your lol hammer thou are scum

if that actually happened I'm inclined to agree with the idea FMFT is scum for it

[Gamma Emerald]

Let's eliminate Moongrass.

Could you talk about your cyrus progression? That's probably the greatest point against you atm

[Gamma Emerald]

Also i feel like there are way too many players here announcing an 100% locktown read on other players for minor shit on day 1. Just feels like an disaster waiting to happen.

I'd scumread you for this if you weren't a stump.

anyone else bothered by this?
I feel like I've been rightly called out for posts like this as scum before.

[Gamma Emerald]

FMFT & cyrus are the two I'm comfortable voting at this point.

FMFT, okay, but why Cyrus?

FMFT seems to be a very evasive in giving actual reasons for their scumreads.

I ISO'ed Cyrus and didn't find anything suspicious.

It means not interacting with them directly which I haven't for some time. Like I know it's next level play to you to actually take into account other people's reads, but it's actually easier to play as a team instead of some delusional scum hunting god flying solo. A lot of what I do won't ever be acknowledged and I've made peace with that long ago.

1. That is a lie, you've made the "giving space" post very early on in your iso but still interacted and wrote a case about the hydra being scum in the meantime
2. The "I know it's next level play to you to actually take into account other people's reads" is highly not necessary and comes off as discrediting a very valid point
3. So your whole argument is that you want to play as a team so I assume this means that you are basically saying you are more or less trying to follow the stumps in their assessments. While that is a fair assessment, I don't buy that, as town:
>You basically give up your nancy push because of that
>You change your gamma read from town to scum because of that (because I assume this is what it is, considering you confidently say you townread gamma early on, then for no reason include him in your hypothetical scumteam, and the only explanation I see that could justify that is norwee saying he thinks the slot is scummy)
That last self-defeating line also doesn't strike me as town at all and feels more like trying to sell to me a town mindset that doesn't exist.
I feel pretty confident that you're scum here. None of this makes sense.

This is a pretty accurate statement.

Yeah, no thanks. So did Nancy put you up to this?

This post gives me a very bad feeling.

I have had significant pushes on the play of House (although this was primarily to get us out of RVS), Mia (specifically the koba head), and you. You have gone to lengths to ignore or dismiss these because they don't fit your narrative. I'm pretty sure these are the main areas of content that everybody else in the game is using to place me- so I'm fairly sure the only reason you aren't finding content there is because you don't want to.

Yep.
Scumteam is Moongrass + Cyrus + Mia/FMFT
VOTE: Moongrass

If Moongrass isn't town then the hydra is obviously town, and I suspected Moongrass a bit more than the hydra. Yet if Moongrass is town the hydra is a scumread.
Although

Hope is less effective than an unvote.

UNVOTE:

I am not so sure why they unvoted here if they are scum.
What made me suspicious of Cyrus is this here:

Cyrus, as an exercise, please could you explain your Gamma Emerald townread

I iso them and I'm on my phone right now so linking the stuff would be hard but from what I see they are actually scum hunting and shorting people unlike you who is just going by meta but I also iso every one and Mia is now my 3dr suspect so when I get back on my phone I'm going to prod and pick on them till I get a reaction I can see why nk15 could be scum as well though so I'm going re read . You mia nk15 and mastina

It's very selective of you to say I'm only using meta and I think you've said it one too many times for me to just ignore you doing so

I have had significant pushes on the play of House (although this was primarily to get us out of RVS), Mia (specifically the koba head), and you. You have gone to lengths to ignore or dismiss these because they don't fit your narrative. I'm pretty sure these are the main areas of content that everybody else in the game is using to place me- so I'm fairly sure the only reason you aren't finding content there is because you don't want to.

There are 4 players about whom I have talked meta- myself, Mastina, Nancy, and you. Myself because self meta is sometimes persuasive, Mastina because people were and apparently still are scumreading Mastina for things she normally does, Nancy because you cannot separate Nancy from her meta and if you try to then she'll bring you back to that topic, and you because I think when someone is playing to such a low standard of play as to literally read someone's readslist upside down I feel inclined to look at their meta to get a better understanding of what the hell is going on there. I mainly scumread you because it's pretty damn clear to me that you started off posting looking for reasons to scumread me specifically but lack the discretion required to determine believable ones.

VOTE: Cyrus
Let's eliminate this.

okay I guess this sorta makes sense? But could you explain

why

that post made you change your mind?

[Gamma Emerald]

House also said I jumped off NK because he would flip town. Gamma, you're picking a choosing house's posts to confirm your bad read.

Okay, that's on him for giving two contradictory statements. I didn't say I felt he was right about that part, did I?

No and that's why I'm saying you're picking which one to agree with in a biased way. It's like if I gave evidence for someone being both innocent and guilty and then the jury picked which one to choose rather than see the evidence is from an unreliable source.

As I see it, a viable explanation for House's two thought processes was that he was undecided on which one made more sense. And I don't see how this equates to the example you gave. Both conclusions he gave point to you being scum, they just sort NK15 differently

SO YOU THINK IT COULD BE MOON, NK15 AND NM?

THATS WHAT I THINK BUT I WILL RE READ BEFORE I VOTE ANY ONE AND PUT THEM TO L1 OR HAMMER?

I'm thinking it's moon/titus/nk15(?)
why the caps tho?

[Gamma Emerald]

ok nvm but damn see how easy you guys could have hammerd

honestly this feels pretty genuine

[Gamma Emerald]

why'd you think I SRed NM tho?

[Gamma Emerald]

so lets see off of nk15 is mia, myself ,nk15, titus, gamma moon, jjh and nm.

so now lets see out of these who do i think is scum nk15 gamma and nm could be scum together or it could be moon nk15 and nm .


i have to ease up on mastina but they could very well be one as well . but i will give jjh a shot and trust his read on mistina for now.

okay now I get why you were saying moon/nk15/nm, that's your reads

[Gamma Emerald]

Also Moon, do you feel genuinely aggressive IRL whenever someone justs asks you questions about what you say? Surely that can’t be healthy.

Sure, make it personal. This says a lot more about you than me.

Knowing how someone interacts IRL can help with sorting them imo
I'd say very few people actively try to act differently online than in person

[Gamma Emerald]

The house and cyrus votes are towny because they are contrary to what's dominating the thread, which shows me that Gamma is playing his own game, supporting much of what I read in his ISO. The fact that he has been voting solo when I think scum are involved in the two main wagons also reads as a non agenda. Contrary to house, gamma is making reads and asking questions objectively. Contrary to house he didn't try to find a way onto a main wagon as soon as you OK'd an elim.

Actually, I have an OBJECTION! While I didn't actually vote NK15, my first post after my prod dodge was asking about the NK15 wagon's reasoning. I think that could reasonably be construed as looking for a way onto it? I had no content between the time when it was mentioned that an elimination was acceptable and that post I believe, I'll have to double-check.

[Gamma Emerald]

I'd say very few people actively try to act differently online than in person

Lmfao. Bruh have you watched catfish? Have you read Twitter? Do you even internet?

okay there's counterpoints, but what I mean to say is there's probably some aspect of everyone's IRL peronality in how they present themselves online.

[Gamma Emerald]

With how this conversation is going I'll never know about this mysterious ex-friend!
So much for mafia being a social experience

yeah I have to ask why moongrass is talking to an ex friend
generally being an ex friend suggest relations are NOT AMICABLE?

[Gamma Emerald]

if cyrus can give a solid explanation for why he started of SRing jjh I'd feel very good about him being town

[Gamma Emerald]

I disagree that valuable wagon analysis is only possible under imminent threat of death. I think there are plenty of games with plenty of counterexamples that contradict that idea.

It's useless on Day 1.

ok scummer

[Gamma Emerald]

I didn’t envision House having similar claiming habits as Flavor Leaf/Boonskiies (using both names since I don’t believe House really was ever aware of the name change?) but it’s aight, I do not mind

[Gamma Emerald]

JJ what are your current thoughts at?

Mia is looking more town.

Cyrus appears to be now townreading me because of my part in avoiding a hammer and I'm not sure what to think of that- still think he's quite possibly scum

Nom looks town, NM is possibly scum and Titus is probably scum


Moon and Mastina are basically locktown for me


I think Gamma and House are both town

FMFT could easily be scum but haven't really seen anything convincing me either way

I think that's everyone

You missed NK15

[Gamma Emerald]

Millenials (as a whole) don't even seem to realize an entire generation between theirs and the 70+ year old Baby Boomers even exist.

I find that a bit of an overreach, but keep in mind I’m a survivor fan so I’m aware of the gap for a particular reason

[Gamma Emerald]

i want to test something besides me no town vote on nk15

I'm guessing this means you're entertaining a theory that you're the only town vote on NK15 currently?

[Gamma Emerald]

Not liked JJ’s read on Cyrus.
In fact i don’t really find anything about JJ townie.
Gamma i’ve liked a bit better for their interactions recently.

Not scumreading JJ for the record, just not convinced.

could you talk more about this?

[Gamma Emerald]

is no one else seeing how hard it is to get a nk hammer . think we need 7 votes if there is 3 scum here and nither of them are voting nk15 then thats why its takeing so long.

Based on this you seem to be thinking scum would hammer here if NK15 was town? My question is, why do you think they'd respond to obvious bait like what you're doing?

[Gamma Emerald]

Spoiler: NK ISO Review

FMFT & cyrus are the two I'm comfortable voting at this point.

FMFT, okay, but why Cyrus?

FMFT seems to be a very evasive in giving actual reasons for their scumreads.

I ISO'ed Cyrus and didn't find anything suspicious.

The first thing that set me off was the superficial read of the Fey twins earlier in their ISO, but then they make this post where it's very easy to superficially scumread cyrus (which they don't).

FMFT & cyrus are the two I'm comfortable voting at this point.

FMFT, okay, but why Cyrus?

FMFT seems to be a very evasive in giving actual reasons for their scumreads.

I ISO'ed Cyrus and didn't find anything suspicious.

FMFT is voting with you - why are you shading them?

You mean why I scumread them a bit?
Because not all of my scumreads are perfect. One of you may be very well town. Or not.
Because scum does not always vote town.

Scum tends to be more aware of those on the wagon with them, and I think NK would have a better answer than this fumbling around post if they were scum.

It means not interacting with them directly which I haven't for some time. Like I know it's next level play to you to actually take into account other people's reads, but it's actually easier to play as a team instead of some delusional scum hunting god flying solo. A lot of what I do won't ever be acknowledged and I've made peace with that long ago.

1. That is a lie, you've made the "giving space" post very early on in your iso but still interacted and wrote a case about the hydra being scum in the meantime
2. The "I know it's next level play to you to actually take into account other people's reads" is highly not necessary and comes off as discrediting a very valid point
3. So your whole argument is that you want to play as a team so I assume this means that you are basically saying you are more or less trying to follow the stumps in their assessments. While that is a fair assessment, I don't buy that, as town:
>You basically give up your nancy push because of that
>You change your gamma read from town to scum because of that (because I assume this is what it is, considering you confidently say you townread gamma early on, then for no reason include him in your hypothetical scumteam, and the only explanation I see that could justify that is norwee saying he thinks the slot is scummy)
That last self-defeating line also doesn't strike me as town at all and feels more like trying to sell to me a town mindset that doesn't exist.
I feel pretty confident that you're scum here. None of this makes sense.

This is a pretty accurate statement.

Yeah, no thanks. So did Nancy put you up to this?

This post gives me a very bad feeling.

I have had significant pushes on the play of House (although this was primarily to get us out of RVS), Mia (specifically the koba head), and you. You have gone to lengths to ignore or dismiss these because they don't fit your narrative. I'm pretty sure these are the main areas of content that everybody else in the game is using to place me- so I'm fairly sure the only reason you aren't finding content there is because you don't want to.

Yep.
Scumteam is Moongrass + Cyrus + Mia/FMFT
VOTE: Moongrass

Oh! Yeah, this flip with zero progression really triggered me.

If Moongrass isn't town then the hydra is obviously town, and I suspected Moongrass a bit more than the hydra. Yet if Moongrass is town the hydra is a scumread.
Although

Hope is less effective than an unvote.

UNVOTE:

I am not so sure why they unvoted here if they are scum.
What made me suspicious of Cyrus is this here:

Cyrus, as an exercise, please could you explain your Gamma Emerald townread

I iso them and I'm on my phone right now so linking the stuff would be hard but from what I see they are actually scum hunting and shorting people unlike you who is just going by meta but I also iso every one and Mia is now my 3dr suspect so when I get back on my phone I'm going to prod and pick on them till I get a reaction I can see why nk15 could be scum as well though so I'm going re read . You mia nk15 and mastina

It's very selective of you to say I'm only using meta and I think you've said it one too many times for me to just ignore you doing so

I have had significant pushes on the play of House (although this was primarily to get us out of RVS), Mia (specifically the koba head), and you. You have gone to lengths to ignore or dismiss these because they don't fit your narrative. I'm pretty sure these are the main areas of content that everybody else in the game is using to place me- so I'm fairly sure the only reason you aren't finding content there is because you don't want to.

There are 4 players about whom I have talked meta- myself, Mastina, Nancy, and you. Myself because self meta is sometimes persuasive, Mastina because people were and apparently still are scumreading Mastina for things she normally does, Nancy because you cannot separate Nancy from her meta and if you try to then she'll bring you back to that topic, and you because I think when someone is playing to such a low standard of play as to literally read someone's readslist upside down I feel inclined to look at their meta to get a better understanding of what the hell is going on there. I mainly scumread you because it's pretty damn clear to me that you started off posting looking for reasons to scumread me specifically but lack the discretion required to determine believable ones.

VOTE: Cyrus
Let's eliminate this.

I mean, cyrus was doing this stuff all along without drawing NK's suspicion...?

However, it doesn't take a genius to correctly townread me when I've put so much content into the game, and people who just ignore that are inherently more likely to be scum

As an aside, take a look at where I am on NSG's readlist

content doesn't mean crap here . i play the way i do so no one can till if im scum or town and stump or not any one can be fooled .

What the is this sentence supposed to say? It is unreadable.

It's like the rest of his posts, pretty much... but now he's "unreadable" when there was nothing suspicious before?

OK, so I was thinking NK went from townreading cyrus to voting him with zero progression, but that's not what happened.

He stated a lack of suspicion, which is not the same as a town read.

Aaaand, Moon could have flipped his shit because he thought I was jumping at an opportunity to quicklynch by exaggerating the case against him.

Fuck. I gotta reset.

VOTE: FMFT

why is voting FMFT part of your reset?

VOTE: FMFT

Not mafia
Nom
House
Gamma
Cyrus
Feys
Titus
NK15
FMFT
Jjh
Mastina

[Gamma Emerald]

VOTE: FMFT

Not mafia
Nom
House
Gamma
Cyrus
Feys
Titus
NK15
FMFT
Jjh
Mastina

Firstly, how'd nom jump to the top this time? This is the second time one of your prior suspects has moved to the very top. I also noticed this post:

Cyrus what's the best point you have on JJH being scum?

around the time of your previous readlist. I don't feel like this makes sense with the fact you had jjh and cyrus as confident townreads at that time? The logical explanations for this post existing are questioning cyrus or considering voting jjh, neither of which matches with the stated reads at that time.

[Gamma Emerald]

That's also not the only post where he points to you townreading him as a reason he's town.

If I had rolled scum here I'd be playing to make sure nsg and mastina townread me.

can you explain the second line here?

[Gamma Emerald]

I think there's clearly a split in the game with jjh mastina on one side and Fey nm on the other. If both groups are town then the game gets tricky.

this is very interesting, talk about this more

[Gamma Emerald]

like, if you're right about that, it may change both how I view you and whatever slots are attached to that gamestate read

[Gamma Emerald]

You've stated JJH is completely or incredibly likely to be town, and i state my opposition to that.
And here we are.

I've noticed most of your communication with nsg seems to be regarding disagreements. I'd like to see y'all maybe hash out which reads you can see eye-to-eye on.

[Gamma Emerald]

Nsg that's where you ignore the other person. We all know you're great, can you please redirect onto if my wagon was a counter and what nom scum means for NK?

idk if I like how this reads. It kinda feels like moon wants to lead the discussion into topics that suit them, which raises the question, why is the current discussion harmful?
In my opinion I think the end goal of this may be to keep nsg and norwee from actually reconciling their reads, which I view as rather pro-scum, as if the town stumps are not unified it breaks up potential pressure on scum.

[Gamma Emerald]

why is voting FMFT part of your reset?

That's where I was prior to my mental fart.

makes sense

[Gamma Emerald]

i want to test something besides me no town vote on nk15

I'm guessing this means you're entertaining a theory that you're the only town vote on NK15 currently?

no that only town is on them

okay that's actually more than I expected after I read a little further
I'll consider what it means myself if that's the case

[Gamma Emerald]

that's a good start
now the important part is nsg building around that

[Gamma Emerald]

I think there's clearly a split in the game with jjh mastina on one side and Fey nm on the other. If both groups are town then the game gets tricky.

okay, so I've seen a post like this in a kinda-recent game, and before I can make a fair comparison I need your judgement on where you think scum is in this dichotomy. I don't need exact names, just how much in each side.

[Gamma Emerald]

I checked the activity overview and it seems like the Feys' activity has fallen off a little. Not sure what to make of that yet.

[Gamma Emerald]

I checked the activity overview and it seems like the Feys' activity has fallen off a little. Not sure what to make of that yet.

If you want to go down that road, I'll fabricate a case against you out of thin air and throw the great wallpost of China at you.

You know I can do it. You've seen it happen.

I'm sorry what? Why the sudden reaction? I don't get why me pointing out the activity situation -> you pushing me.

[Gamma Emerald]

like, my concern is I didn't actually telegraph any sort of direction I was considering with that comment, I just brought it up. So why are like "don't you fucking do it bro!"?

[Gamma Emerald]

Okay
but like, I was just vocalizing something. Both heads of that hydra are generally active players, so seeing 0 posts for almost a day atp is intriguing. I think an explanation probably exists, I just don't want to ignore it rn

[Gamma Emerald]

okay, what do we have?

[Gamma Emerald]

okay, what do we have?

We have an excellent dark horse in nomnomnom.

I like dark horses.

What's your read on that slot?

has kinda felt town through interactions with moon but aside from that hasn't felt like a priority sort so I don't have much

[Gamma Emerald]

moon could you please respond to my question? If needed I can reframe it, since it's kinda diffused across like 3 posts

[Gamma Emerald]

moon could you please respond to my question? If needed I can reframe it, since it's kinda diffused across like 3 posts

Could you respond to mine?

I'm not immune to changing my reads, if new information warrants it.

I'm working on it in another tab, I'm basically gonna go over their whole series of interaction during this game, describe what I see, and maybe reconsider things because the nom read is kinda based n an assumption that moon is scum, so I'm trying to figure out if the townread holds if I assume the opposite. So yeah, it'll take some time to put that out.

[Gamma Emerald]

I think there's clearly a split in the game with jjh mastina on one side and Fey nm on the other. If both groups are town then the game gets tricky.

this is very interesting, talk about this more

like, if you're right about that, it may change both how I view you and whatever slots are attached to that gamestate read

I think there's clearly a split in the game with jjh mastina on one side and Fey nm on the other. If both groups are town then the game gets tricky.

okay, so I've seen a post like this in a kinda-recent game, and before I can make a fair comparison I need your judgement on where you think scum is in this dichotomy. I don't need exact names, just how much in each side.

Essentially, out of jjh+mastina and Feys+NM, I want to know how many scum you think are in each atm.

[Gamma Emerald]

I think both those groups are aligned, with nm/fey being less strongly aligned. So either TvT or SvS like:

Jjh
Mastina
House
Gamma
Cyrus
FMFT
Titus
NK15
Nom
Not mafia
Feys

Or the inverse:

Not mafia
Feys
NK15
House
Gamma
Cyrus
FMFT
Titus
Nom
Jjh
Mastina

okay. First thought is what's going on with the NK15 read, seeing as it's in two different spots despite not being included in the initial dichotomy? The second thing is this doesn't really feel the same as the previous thing I mentioned from the prior game, so I don't think I'm exactly ready to put any stock into this. To be clear, in the other game the person who posted a thing like this ended up half-right, they had a guess of about 2 scum in one group of three and 1 scum in another group of 3, it was that group with one in it they were right about. The critical difference I see is there's a lack of nuance in moon's theory, it assumes one group has to be S/S, despite previously postulating serious ramifications for both being T/T. If that wasn't a perceived possibility, why bring it up, and if it was, why not think about and construct a readlist based on that presumed gamestate?

[Gamma Emerald]

By the way Gamma, 1786 was a message to nomnomnom. That message being, if I wanted to make a case on them, I could easily do so regardless of pesky little inconveniences such as whether "facts" or "reality" support my push. That's why I specifically worded it the way I did.

Your response to that post reinforced that message.

It was never my intention to actually threaten you, and I figured you'd see that also via the way the post was worded.

Edit, wrong post#

yeah that makes sense
it's essentially one of those times when someone has a q+ stored and it screws with the context, but you designed it that way this time

[Gamma Emerald]

If I had rolled scum here I'd be playing to make sure nsg and mastina townread me.

Very good point actually.

There's no point in playing to mastina. It's an empty slot, even more so than me.

wdym "empty slot"? masinta has been active at times

[Gamma Emerald]

My thinking is not nuanced, its complicated but until I feel fairly certain on the pairings I'm unlikely to explore this much further until we get a flip.

Nuanced and complicated are kinda similar IMO?

[Gamma Emerald]

Btw I’m hoping to not have this be the case but I might not be able to post my thoughts on nom vs. moon for a few hours since I’m going to see the movie In The Heights soon

[Gamma Emerald]

So not only did I not finish my post before my movie, it’s seeming like I lost probably half an hour’s worth of progress on it because I lost connection when trying to save a draft. So that fucking sucks.

[Gamma Emerald]

13 and are we positive there are only 3 scum

It’s public setup info bro

[Gamma Emerald]

So it turns out my “lost” progress actually got saved all along so I’ll determine what parts I want to keep out of my first and second draft of part I covered twice (the re-do started from a previous save)

[Gamma Emerald]

or i would just never so confidently declare that i'm playing my town game. furthermore, there have been games where i've made almost exactly the same comment as town: that i am unambiguously playing my towngame and that other people in the playerlist who know me should recognize this and would never vote for me.

Then i think your scumgame is just really low. As i’ve identified slots that are strong townplayers and confidently sure they would correctly townread me and done what i can to pocket them by saying: "this is obviously my towngame" when i am scum, and it’s worked like an charm. What makes JJ and i uncapable of something you cannot?

almost nothing in mafia is about whether or not something is capable of something, it's about the probabilities. the

probability

that

any

town player with somewhat distinct towngames and scumgames would make a comment like that is—in my estimation—low, for the reasons that i said there. thus, i consider it town-indicative. you aren't the same kind of player as jjh is or as i am, so i wouldn't apply the same analysis to you that i would to him. just the same way i said that moon shouldn't apply the same analysis she would to scum!RC to jjh.

Maybe yes, maybe no. For years Creature had a frozen or wooden scumgame and now it’s decent. It’s possible I could still be wrong on jjh but not for this reason.

iirc he did well in Vengeful Ghosts?

[Gamma Emerald]

If I had rolled scum here I'd be playing to make sure nsg and mastina townread me.

Very good point actually.

moon why Mastina? Wouldn’t you say nsg, norwee and dgb?

this crossed my mind

[Gamma Emerald]

Like I have an idea why now but I did initially question it