Yggdrasil - Stratum FINAL -

[Thestatusquo]

Eh you know what eff it. I'm not letting someone fake a guilty.

VOTE: Arte

This is policy.

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https://wiki.mafiascum.net/index.php?ti ... ts_as_Town

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I favor faking guilties but not how Artemiana executed it and held it for so long.

It's amazing how you can be wrong about so many different things simultaneously.

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the best part about it is if you're town you're basically locked to get to the end game so I look forward to you being the deciding factor in whether I win or lose in 5 or so game days.

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I'm getting toxic. :/

I'll be stepping away from this thread for real for 24 hours. No reading, no posting. Good luck y'all.

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This looks a lot like town murdercat to me.

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This looks a lot like town murdercat to me.

Hmm. Doesn't seem that way to me. I remember town murdercat to be much more productive and proficient with his reads, and able to obvtown when pressured.

This game is a bit different and i admit that i am still very very confused about what is going on, but i wouldn't say murdercat is necessarily town based on his analysis. I disagree with his scumreads, but i agree with his townreads, which is kind of a red flag.

I challenge you to find a day one of a large theme where that is true.

[Thestatusquo]

Maybe. I think it's possible. But you're making a claim about how you expect murdercat to be in d1 and 2 in a large theme and I'm telling you that's explicitly not the case.

[Thestatusquo]

Maybe. I think it's possible. But you're making a claim about how you expect murdercat to be in d1 and 2 in a large theme and I'm telling you that's explicitly not the case.

Are you a player who generally uses meta?

To some degree. In general I think its overused. I think self-meta is mostly garbage. But I think that a meta attack can be refuted with a meta defense, which is what I'm doing here. If the claim is that MC is generally more productive than he has been here and I don't think thats true it seems completely reasonable to say "hey, that attack isn't true, do some research." There's plenty of MC large themes to look at, Among Us being the most recent one.

[Thestatusquo]

I've seen this exact same song and dance with mc every large theme I've ever seen him in. IDC. Wont be voting there today.

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VOTE: ircher

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Why don't you want to vote ircher

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I just don't know what the case is on NDMath and Titus is pushing it.

NDMath hasn't said a ton but I feel like I've agreed with most of what they've said so I'm unsure why they're being voted aside from activity.

[Thestatusquo]

He was right even if the result was wrong. I thought the exact same thing at the time.

[Thestatusquo]

He was right even if the result was wrong. I thought the exact same thing at the time.

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Yes but a lot of people I strongly town read are voting MC. They can't all be scum.

At the same time its interesting that ND was willing to think about playstyle things re: anya but is not willing to give MC the same benefit of the doubt.

[Thestatusquo]

I dont believe your point two because it assumes alignment of people who are not flipped outside of anya.

I don't care at all about point 3.

So your case for me boils down to "NDMath is lurking" and I've already been pretty clear about why I think that's not something I want to vote off of.

[Thestatusquo]

Yes but a lot of people I strongly town read are voting MC. They can't all be scum.

At the same time its interesting that ND was willing to think about playstyle things re: anya but is not willing to give MC the same benefit of the doubt.

Difference being I've played with Anya before but this is my first game with MC and so am taking other's word for his general playstyle.
What should I be thinking about in terms of MC playstyle?

Force them into a 1 v 1 or confirm my role.

There are numerous reasons it just doesn't work like that. If it did I would've answered before you asked.

I don't like how you been playing around me.

Can you go into more detail on this scumread so that there's actually substance for people to agree/disagree on?

Murdercat is frequently lurky and non participatory in early days of large themes because he feels overwhelmed. This is based on conversations I've had with him personally and also based on what I've observed in the large themes I've run that he has played in where it is very common for him to get Wagoned for not participating that much as town.

Which appears to be what's happening here

[Thestatusquo]

I think if you look at mc large games vs normals you'll find a really big difference.

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It's ultimately nai by because i think it's true regardless and obviously people have different things they're voting him for but i want to specifically defend against the "you're not doing much" accusations because that's just what he always does in large early games in my experience.

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I don't think I've seen anything that doesn't look like town murdercat to me. Shrug.

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We also started working on a "Why titus is town" meta case, but realized nobody probably cares and it's a lot of effort for little new data. People are very attached to their titus reads this game.

You'll need it tomorrow if both she and I are still alive so might as well get it ready.

[Thestatusquo]

GLADIATE: MURDERCAT

There, it's official now. Take your pick: MURDERCAT or me. You have no other options now.

welp. I know where I'll be then.

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Pending mod confirmation, I have several thoughts.

Both heads of this hydra are going to be low posting the next few days.

My (nueter-cabd's) cousin is in the ER in Dallas with severe Covid, on oxygen and fluids.

Spay has IRL shit going down that involves long distance travel.

We aren't giving up or leaving but yeah.

Anything I can do for you re: the covid situation?

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I mean I'm like 80% the gladiator isn't real because apparently you can just do whatever nowadays and lie at random and no one cares.

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I agree it is antitown on paper.

I'm just not convinced it would be in what we've seen and inferred from THIS particular theme.

why? what info do we have other than IC and various claimed strong pro town roles? I'm curious what is making you infer that gladiator doesn't work as an anti town role here?

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Ok but it was fake so why are we discussing it

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It's amazing that somehow this is the dumbest Gambit of the game but here we are

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List of people who are better elims than MC:

Dunn, Ircher, titus, notscience, something_smart.

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I gave notscience a pass d1 because he was doing the PR which I think in general is more likely to come from town and also felt like he was putting real effort into putting content into those posts but he's done actual fuck all today and looking back at his d1 his vote on anya was very consistent with a bus.

[Thestatusquo]

Actually you know what time to be the change I want to see in the world.

VOTE: notscience

[Thestatusquo]

Of the two leading wagons ircher is way more likely to be scum imo and I'll vote there if we need me at deadline but I ain't voting murdercat. This continues to look like town murdercat to me.

[Thestatusquo]

Also i don't like ircher as today's elimination

My current scumreads: murdercat, ndmath, flea, titus

My concerns: chara, guillo, white fire, shea

Everyone else is fine to me as far as today is concerned

What’s your concern about me and shea?

Both you and shea have a towny tone but have made weird choices with your reads. To elaborate, i feel that town!shea shouldn't have agreed so much with me in d1 when he knows that my reads are horrible - but this is just a hunch to keep in mind for later, i don't want to push shea today.

As for you, guillo, i know for a fact that you have been pushing town in d1 and dodged the scum wagon. Again, this isn't a huge basis for pushing you and in fact i am not, but if people want to iso me after i die this could be useful

Have you considered that my reads are also horrible?

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I gave my lim pool. Probably my order of preference is something like notty > ircher > something_smart.

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I feel like no one is interacting with me re: notty at all. Why is notty town? At least don't ignore me.

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I feel like no one is interacting with me re: notty at all. Why is notty town? At least don't ignore me.

Notty is town unless Morph says otherwise

nah miss me with that

[Thestatusquo]

Honestly I’m perfectly fine if shea and ircher want to keep voting me

Might be more helpful in the long run anyways

This doesn't mean anything.

It's the kind of thing scum say to sound unconcerned with their yeet but this statement is just air.

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I am totally willing to listen to your content when you can make it. But that post is scummy independent of the lack of content.

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I have no idea what ogi means.

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I won't dw.

But that seems like a weird thing to worry about

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I liked that analysis of the n_m interaction.

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@ns What I'm missing is an coherent understanding of who you want to yeet and who you don't want to yeet. There's surely more to it than just reactions to N_M.

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I guess what I'm confused about re: this line of conversation chara is that it seems disproportionate with the amount of actual being scum read that is happening to you? Like there's this series of posts and then the above post where you say something to the effect of "this is one of the few people who tr me" when I don't think anyone is voting you? You said yourself that you tend to play to a very similar place both as scum as town so it seems like it would be something you'd be used to, no?

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Like clearly you're AtEing here and it seems vaguely manipulative and I can't decide if that's a townie thing to do or a scummy thing to do when you have actual 0 votes on you.

[Thestatusquo]

*waves*

[Thestatusquo]

Can you read your predecessors iso and reassure me that i wasn't wrong to disagree with almost everything they said

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townies say and do things like that literally all the time. It's incredibly common. I could probably spend 10 seconds looking at past farkran games and find him making basically identical posts as town.

It's not even enough for a vague scum lean and somehow you think it lock scums him. It's utter nonsense. Almost all of your takes are like this, just lacking in basic understanding of a) how the game of mafia works and b) what things tend to come from scum or town.

Honestly at this point it makes me want to town read you but I just really wish you had some baseline understanding of what you're talking about.

Look mate, I am perhaps the best wolf player you will ever meet, I bested you and 9 other players when I subbed in to a game where the other two scum players were already yeeted. I whooped your ass! This guy here, who don't know how Mafia works, who has been playing this game for two decades, whooped your ass in that game. SINGLE-HANDEDLY.
I got over 90% scum win rate across all sites and 90% effectivity as either alignment with power roles, specially as town and do you know why?

Because to catch a wolf, I always think like one!

When I rand town like in this game, I put my white pelt on and hunt wolves with black pelts. Have you watched Game of Thrones? I'm the stark's Direwolf.

If you are town and if you wanna play in this game with me, don't insult me ever again.

What a shame guillotina never found the time to say what game this was where he "whooped my ass" before replacing out after doing nothing at all.

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no I just wanted validation of my sanity. thx.

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I am not strawmanning mc scum reads. My contention is this looks exactly like town mc from among us to me.

The attacks to me seem to be you don't like his reads which fair but i don't think they're as wacky as you seem to.

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I spent a bit of time thinking about it and i think i liked ns response to my pressure though I'm not super convinced he couldn't do that as scum. I think it's enough to want him to live through the day though. The main thing for me is that i think if ns were scum trying to engage with the game they probably wouldn't pick the n_m interactions to look at. Choosing that specifically to look at seems to come from a place of genuine curiosity to me even if i don't agree with the conclusions. And boy do i not agree with a bunch of the conclusions.

Anyway VOTE: ircher

[Thestatusquo]

Scum me is good at saying town soubding things but not at replicating my town tone

It's not really the town things you said it's that i think that scum would be very unlikely to choose that particular part of the game to mine for content.

[Thestatusquo]

Can anyone explain to me why mc is scum other than "i don't like his scum reads"

Please use small words. I just don't see it.

[Thestatusquo]

Can anyone explain to me why mc is scum other than "i don't like his scum reads"

Please use small words. I just don't see it.

MC is scum or he seems unable to process feedback. I do not think Murderkitty is a bad mafia player. So I think he's scum instead.

It seems to me he's processing feedback just fine, he just disagrees with it

[Thestatusquo]

Subject: Among Us Mafia [GAME OVER]

@cakez - I wish you would disappear from this game tbh.
I will also note that pooky has thrown me into his townpile.
His vote is still here and we are a day from deadline.
Why do people think he's town?

pfff where did this come from?

BM I can't get over how your reads seems to be structured to townread people townreading you and scum read people scum reading you
It's not necessarily scummy but why

That's NAI for BM.

I can still ask the question

My reasoning for MC scum is their complete lack of passion and scumhunting this game when I know they do way better than this as town
I am not interested in a Titus wagon atm, she made some very townie posts earlier.
Taly did present a decent cause for a TGP vote. I don't have a read on him aside.
We should no elim anyways

Subject: Among Us Mafia [GAME OVER]

Murderkitty,
I think it's normal for you to do little D1, I also think that without Noraa sucking up all the attention you're gunna get pressured for it early game day and that you'd have some kind of motivation to try and solve based on that or at least live.

I don't think it makes sense that he didn't vote titus, but voted TGP after saying he felt he would die if he tried to vote titus opportunisticaly.

You're here Murderkitty. Respond?

Subject: Among Us Mafia [GAME OVER]

What a nuanced yet weird position to take lol.

Here's a couple quotes from among us, a couple from you even, where I very strongly feel like MC was attacked for basically the same reasons as he is in this game. One person explicitly arguing that MC should be better than this as town and you saying his actions don't make sense and are weird.

I find it really odd that you are basically attacking for the same reasons he was attacked in that game.

[Thestatusquo]

Hey squad. I'm very drunk rn. I went to a magic tournament and then got drinks with friends for the first time in a year. Ama. Who i think is town? Who i think is scum? My favorite person in this game? My secret Ms crush? Anything.

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I love taco bell and hate pizza hut. The cheese isn't the problem it's that the crust basically just tastes like butter and nothing else.

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No one asked me any good questions and that is disappointing.

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Brief run down of what is happening please? I don't have time to read the last 8 or so pages and it seems like something spicy just happened.

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I don't get it, his claim seems to be that he has none currently? Couldn't he have just used it? Did he explicitly claim he started with 0?

I'm missing a lot of context here.

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Why did the ircher wagon dissipate.

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I'm willing to consolidate on ndmath but not on MC. Would still prefer ircher.

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NDMath's claim doesn't make much sense to me for mostly the reasons bingle just outlined and less the reasons of "I don't have SP" which seems like a really weird thing to fake.

It's more how the "not having SP" interacts with the rest of claim that is giving me "one of these things is not like the others" vibes.

VOTE: NDMath

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Also having the watcher specifically undated by the universal gating mechanism just seems wrong to me.

This is the post my last post is referring to.

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I wanted to target someone town doesn't visit, short of being a protective, so I wouldn't have to deal with someone trying to talk their way out of a guilty. Originally thought that would be Toog, with their early roleclaim + investigative abilities, but was concerned by their hammer and so instead targeted lld. No one outside of bingle/toog/lld was really in consideration for me, with those being near universal townreads at that point.

None of this makes any sense

[Thestatusquo]

I think LLDs push on MC boils down to "says nothing really loudly."

[Thestatusquo]

morph, Math or MC are getting flipped today. which one do you want to flip? it seems like you want it to be MC.

how did morph get on this list?

this seems vaguely opportunistic in that a couple people have voiced vague suspicion of morph but no one has actually attacked them but it seems weird to place them on this list. Feels vaguely like an attempt to start a counter wagon if either math or MC flips scum ever.

[Thestatusquo]

Ah, the ambiguity of the comma strikes again. Good I can go back to unambiguously town reading chara.

[Thestatusquo]

i always use oxford commas.

but man you were ready to SR me, for it, huh shea? :<

I was ready to take you out of my hard town pile yeah. I think the thing I said is true and I see almost no motivation for town to put morph on that list.

[Thestatusquo]

Ah, the ambiguity of the comma strikes again. Good I can go back to unambiguously town reading chara.

it doesn't sound like an unambiguous read sir!!!

You're hard town for me at the moment but reads can obviously change? For instance if you do something like try to vaguely start a counter flash wagon at the end of day 2 in such a way as to have plausible deniability for the push later.

Which is what I think that post could be trying to accomplish if morph were actually put on the list and you were scum. I'm a motivations player mixed with a bit of meta and the motivations for that are all scum. Its one of the few things that I dont think a townie would ever do in this spot. I think a townie who scum read morph and wanted to flash wagon would be much more direct.

[Thestatusquo]

...Was it not you?

I distinctly recall you telling us to step back and let the thread breathe and stuff.

To be fair that was your framing and not mine. I simply asked you to stop snapping at people for daring to post in the thread when you were talking.

[Thestatusquo]

Yo, Titus said she’d eat her hat if ndmath is town.

I also said I'd eat my hat. Is this a shea-titus associative tell?

He should have been more specific about what he wanted when he asked me to name 3 players that weren't playing meh this game then.

This post in particular I'd eat my hat if it came from scum.

This hat.

[Thestatusquo]

I will flashwagon ircher

That’s my only other option

I don't really understand why.

What makes Ircher >!randscum but the same cant be said for SS

pedir: I could do chara

I will fight you to the death over a chara flip.

[Thestatusquo]

Pretty happy with the ndmath flip.

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I think "I've been sidelined all day because I was asked to be" when really no one asked for that and it and I'm not sure I believe morph would do that anyway is a dubious claim.

[Thestatusquo]

Pretty happy with the ndmath flip.

We still need a vote.

reasonably sure I'm already voting there

[Thestatusquo]

I just think thats a bizarre interpretation of what I asked you to do. I explicitly said something very different from that.

I want you to play but i want that to happen without you snapping at anyone who posts something when you don't want them to and that is more important than who wins or loses honestly.

[Thestatusquo]

Cmon, you’re a better player than this.

At best, I could upgrade him to a weak town read. He's far from obvtown even if I discount his read on me.

I kind of disagree a lot.

Read through his interaction with me and how he responded after I attacked him and then read through my posts about what content he chose to mine. I just don't see that coming from scum.

[Thestatusquo]

I know, I find that interpretation strange especially since, as I just said, you stated it and I explicitly made the post you just quoted in response to clarify that it was not what I meant.

And then somehow it got transferred to LLD?

[Thestatusquo]

The point that Anya was a watcher counter (and a powerful one at that) makes me more inclined to believe Math, given a little more thought. I'm fine with leaving that for a tomorrow world. Ffabd is probably right that town shooting early nights is antitown at best (See: every dancegame and hero vig I've ever witnessed), but that's not a fight I'm going to win.

VOTE: MC

shea can you explain to me for the 60th time why i should townread murdercat and why this isn't his scumgame? i've been resisting it in part because of your confidence on anya (not saying i wasn't also confident).

It's less that this isnt his scum game and more that this is explicitly his town game and every argument that has been made to lim I have seen used (sometimes by scum) to lim town!MC repeatedly before. Among us being the most recent example that I am allowed to talk about.

[Thestatusquo]

I know, I find that interpretation strange especially since, as I just said, you stated it and I explicitly made the post you just quoted in response to clarify that it was not what I meant.

And then somehow it got transferred to LLD?

*post I just quoted.

[Thestatusquo]

There is nothing really townie about the role so I had no interest in claiming it, but I figured outing the little info I have is better than holding on to it given that even if I survive the day I likely die at night

why in the world would you die at night?

[Thestatusquo]

Ah ok. I thought you were suggesting you'd be the night kill and I was like that seems like a titus like level of naivete.

[Thestatusquo]

hey lets like...not speculate about NKs.

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I'm a medic

my normal ability is to heal people who are missing HP.

I have SP abilities that allow me to make someone ascetic and prevent someone from dying on a given night.

Which are you claiming you did.

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Titus I wanted to investigate this further. :/

It seems like its possible it would fail if MC had no missing HP and maybe wouldn't get notified? Wish we could have checked with the mod on that before the hammer.

[Thestatusquo]

FF is the one with the sleeping issue! It was an honest mistake.

Damnit.

Insomnia is an old friend to the both of us.

we're not so different you you and me.

[Thestatusquo]

I don't think it is damning. As you said the game seems to be put together in sort of a weird way with how stuff like that resolves. I could easily see the ability only being triggered if the target is successful and healing HP when they're at HP might not be successful.

Pointless to have that discussion after the quick hammer though. I'm just a little miffed I didn't get to keep investigating that.